Discussion:
Shure HTS SteteoSurround encoding
(too old to reply)
tomdeacon
2014-05-12 20:28:48 UTC
Permalink
I have recently pulled out an Intersound recording from 1993 which claims
it was recorded in this surround process, "providing an unparalleled
listening experience.

It is a DDD CD, but not an SACD.

How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?

Perhaps the surround element was on the original tape? But not transferred
to the CD as sold?

What is going on here?
--
TD
tomdeacon
2014-05-12 20:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
I have recently pulled out an Intersound recording from 1993 which claims
it was recorded in this surround process, "providing an unparalleled
listening experience.
It is a DDD CD, but not an SACD.
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
Perhaps the surround element was on the original tape? But not transferred
to the CD as sold?
What is going on here?
Please read STEREO in the header. Finger slip.
--
TD
William Sommerwerck
2014-05-12 21:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so that they
can be (more or less) recovered during playback.

SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies. Two-channel
Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out psychoacoustically that it can
provide more-accurate directionality over a wider listening area than any
four-channel "discrete" system.

Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode on your processing. Feel
free to experiment with other modes.
tomdeacon
2014-05-12 21:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so that
they can be (more or less) recovered during playback.
SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies. Two-channel
Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out psychoacoustically that it
can provide more-accurate directionality over a wider listening area than
any four-channel "discrete" system.
Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode on your processing.
Feel free to experiment with other modes.
I was asking specifically about Shure HTS Surround Stereo, about which I
know nothing. SQ and QS were used in the 1970s on Lps. Dolby Stereo for
movies? Isn't that automatic decoding done by my movie receiver? Not sure
that I ever have to choose that.

This is a digital CD from 1993!
--
TD
frankwm
2014-05-12 22:01:49 UTC
Permalink
"... about which I know nothing"

U R A Lazeeee SOB !!!
Google for some info...
MiNe109
2014-05-12 22:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so that
they can be (more or less) recovered during playback.
SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies. Two-channel
Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out psychoacoustically that it
can provide more-accurate directionality over a wider listening area than
any four-channel "discrete" system.
Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode on your processing.
Feel free to experiment with other modes.
I was asking specifically about Shure HTS Surround Stereo, about which I
know nothing. SQ and QS were used in the 1970s on Lps. Dolby Stereo for
movies? Isn't that automatic decoding done by my movie receiver? Not sure
that I ever have to choose that.
This is a digital CD from 1993!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-29/entertainment/9002220678_1_decoder-shure-hts-broadcasts

The Stereosurround system grew out of Shure`s development of the Home
Theater System surround-sound decoder for home video. Shure HTS with its
Acra- Vector logic preceded Dolby ProLogic home decoders by three years,
and many experts still consider it better than Dolby`s own system for
decoding Dolby Surround Sound from movie soundtracks. Shure engineered
circuitry into the HTS to enhance music as well.

ABC used the Shure Stereosurround system for the big Rolling Stones
concert simulcast with WXRT radio, NBC uses it for ``Saturday Night Live,``

and CBS has used it for the Super Bowl and the Emmy broadcasts. WGN
transmits the Cubs games in Stereosurround. Now Stereosurround comes to
classical radio with the WFMT broadcast.

Listeners will hear the best possible sound, of course, when using a
Shure HTS decoder or a Dolby ProLogic decoder. However, Shure claims
that all listeners will benefit, even those with just stereo TVs. The
Stereosurround system creates a greater depth of sound on regular stereo
broadcasts. Any surround-sound decoder will reproduce all four channels
encoded by Stereosurround.

End quote.
Tom Deacon
2014-05-13 15:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by tomdeacon
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so that
they can be (more or less) recovered during playback.
SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies. Two-channel
Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out psychoacoustically that it
can provide more-accurate directionality over a wider listening area than
any four-channel "discrete" system.
Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode on your processing.
Feel free to experiment with other modes.
I was asking specifically about Shure HTS Surround Stereo, about which I
know nothing. SQ and QS were used in the 1970s on Lps. Dolby Stereo for
movies? Isn't that automatic decoding done by my movie receiver? Not sure
that I ever have to choose that.
This is a digital CD from 1993!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-29/entertainment/9002220678_1_decoder-shure-hts-broadcasts
The
Post by MiNe109
Stereosurround system grew out of Shure`s development of the Home
Theater System surround-sound decoder for home video. Shure HTS with
its Acra- Vector logic preceded Dolby ProLogic home decoders by three
years, and many experts still consider it better than Dolby`s own
system for decoding Dolby Surround Sound from movie soundtracks. Shure
engineered circuitry into the HTS to enhance music as well.
ABC used the Shure Stereosurround system for the big Rolling Stones
concert simulcast with WXRT radio, NBC uses it for ``Saturday Night Live,``
and CBS has used it for the Super Bowl and the Emmy broadcasts. WGN
transmits the Cubs games in Stereosurround. Now Stereosurround comes to
classical radio with the WFMT broadcast.
Listeners will hear the best possible sound, of course, when using a
Shure HTS decoder or a Dolby ProLogic decoder. However, Shure claims
that all listeners will benefit, even those with just stereo TVs. The
Stereosurround system creates a greater depth of sound on regular
stereo broadcasts. Any surround-sound decoder will reproduce all four
channels encoded by Stereosurround.
End quote.
Nice to know.

Thanks.
--
TD
William Sommerwerck
2014-05-13 15:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Nice to know.
Give us a listen and let us know what you think.
Norman Schwartz
2014-05-13 16:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by MiNe109
Post by tomdeacon
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so
that they can be (more or less) recovered during playback.
SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies.
Two-channel Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out
psychoacoustically that it can provide more-accurate
directionality over a wider listening area than any four-channel
"discrete" system. Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode
on your
processing. Feel free to experiment with other modes.
I was asking specifically about Shure HTS Surround Stereo, about
which I know nothing. SQ and QS were used in the 1970s on Lps.
Dolby Stereo for movies? Isn't that automatic decoding done by my
movie receiver? Not sure that I ever have to choose that.
This is a digital CD from 1993!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-29/entertainment/9002220678_1_decoder-shure-hts-broadcasts
The
Post by MiNe109
Stereosurround system grew out of Shure`s development of the Home
Theater System surround-sound decoder for home video. Shure HTS with
its Acra- Vector logic preceded Dolby ProLogic home decoders by three
years, and many experts still consider it better than Dolby`s own
system for decoding Dolby Surround Sound from movie soundtracks.
Shure engineered circuitry into the HTS to enhance music as well.
ABC used the Shure Stereosurround system for the big Rolling Stones
concert simulcast with WXRT radio, NBC uses it for ``Saturday Night Live,``
and CBS has used it for the Super Bowl and the Emmy broadcasts. WGN
transmits the Cubs games in Stereosurround. Now Stereosurround comes
to classical radio with the WFMT broadcast.
Listeners will hear the best possible sound, of course, when using a
Shure HTS decoder or a Dolby ProLogic decoder. However, Shure claims
that all listeners will benefit, even those with just stereo TVs. The
Stereosurround system creates a greater depth of sound on regular
stereo broadcasts. Any surround-sound decoder will reproduce all four
channels encoded by Stereosurround.
End quote.
Since you once had an affiliation with at least of the labels in the
'now'(?) Universal Music Group, perhaps you can shed some light on how they
produced their AMSI (Ambient Surround Imaging) recordings. I have many
Eloquence 'AMSI' recordings which don't sound any different than do their
original 2CH releases in my ancient hearing. Perhaps some young listeners
hear better/more.
Post by Tom Deacon
Nice to know.
Thanks.
tomdeacon
2014-05-14 11:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Schwartz
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by MiNe109
Post by tomdeacon
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are ways of mixing multiple channels down to two tracks, so
that they can be (more or less) recovered during playback.
SQ and QS are such systems, as is Dolby Stereo for movies.
Two-channel Ambisonic UHJ encoding is so well-thought-out
psychoacoustically that it can provide more-accurate
directionality over a wider listening area than any four-channel
"discrete" system. Try playing the disk using the Dolby Surround mode
on your
processing. Feel free to experiment with other modes.
I was asking specifically about Shure HTS Surround Stereo, about
which I know nothing. SQ and QS were used in the 1970s on Lps.
Dolby Stereo for movies? Isn't that automatic decoding done by my
movie receiver? Not sure that I ever have to choose that.
This is a digital CD from 1993!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-29/entertainment/9002220678_1_decoder-shure-hts-broadcasts
The
Post by MiNe109
Stereosurround system grew out of Shure`s development of the Home
Theater System surround-sound decoder for home video. Shure HTS with
its Acra- Vector logic preceded Dolby ProLogic home decoders by three
years, and many experts still consider it better than Dolby`s own
system for decoding Dolby Surround Sound from movie soundtracks.
Shure engineered circuitry into the HTS to enhance music as well.
ABC used the Shure Stereosurround system for the big Rolling Stones
concert simulcast with WXRT radio, NBC uses it for ``Saturday Night Live,``
and CBS has used it for the Super Bowl and the Emmy broadcasts. WGN
transmits the Cubs games in Stereosurround. Now Stereosurround comes
to classical radio with the WFMT broadcast.
Listeners will hear the best possible sound, of course, when using a
Shure HTS decoder or a Dolby ProLogic decoder. However, Shure claims
that all listeners will benefit, even those with just stereo TVs. The
Stereosurround system creates a greater depth of sound on regular
stereo broadcasts. Any surround-sound decoder will reproduce all four
channels encoded by Stereosurround.
End quote.
Since you once had an affiliation with at least of the labels in the
'now'(?) Universal Music Group, perhaps you can shed some light on how they
produced their AMSI (Ambient Surround Imaging) recordings. I have many
Eloquence 'AMSI' recordings which don't sound any different than do their
original 2CH releases in my ancient hearing. Perhaps some young listeners
hear better/more.
Post by Tom Deacon
Nice to know.
Thanks.
Nobody outside the Emil Berliner Haus in Hannover had any idea of what was
involved in this process. Our German colleagues were very sanguine about
the improvements, the other countries less so. When a choice was possible
most preferred to leave the sound as is. The Germans seemed to believe that
German consumers would like the AMSI letters attached to the product.

Frankly, I thought it was simply a marketing concept.
--
TD
William Sommerwerck
2014-05-14 12:45:11 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Gerard
2014-05-14 16:37:50 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Norman Schwartz
2014-05-14 17:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by tomdeacon
Nobody outside the Emil Berliner Haus in Hannover had any idea of
what was involved in this process [AMSI]. Our German colleagues
were very sanguine about the improvements, the other countries less
so. When a choice was possible most preferred to leave the sound
as-is. The Germans seemed to believe that German consumers would
like the AMSI letters attached to the product.
The name /suggests/ that synthesized ambience was added to the
recording, encoded in such a way that a Dolby Surround decoder could
easily extract it. But who knows?
One of the reasons many CDs with Dolby Surround ambience don't "sound
right" is that earlier versions of Dolby Surround had only one rear
channel -- which
doesn't work very well for ambience, for obvious reasons. (It's disappointing
that RCA hasn't reissued any of its surround recordings on SACD or Blu-ray. Of
course, RCA lives under the Sony umbrella, which "got religion" in
its old age.)
Regardless, it's generally a bad idea to add ambience -- however
appropriate or tastefully done -- to a recording. That's for the
listener to do, in his listening room and under his control.
If anyone is willing to loan some AMSI recordings, I'd be glad to give them a
listen and report back.
=============
This AMSI item (on German Eloquence cds) has been discussed before.
IRRC someone posted some (parts of) recordings somewhere where
everyone could listen without knowing what was the original release
and what was the AMSI release, and "nobody" could hear any
difference. I don't know what quality was offered then (some kind of
MP3 I suppose).
I have a few items with AMSI and without (a few Beethoven overtures by
Karajan e.g.). I have plain stereo (2 channel) equipment. The AMSI
releases sound more fuzzy (= worse).
Indeed, AMSI was discussed here before, too lazy to search the archives I
couldn't recall if Mr. Deacon contributed to it. Since TD, worked with
company representing its originators, I was hopeful that he might be able to
contribute something new and worthwhile for everyone present today including
myself, might enjoy learning. Since I have such an interest, I'm sure of
having participated in that old thread. Because Mr. Deacon brought up this
Stereo surround issue, I also thought this might represent a favorable
opportunity, (on top of all that, because I very recently acquired another
AMSI encoded disc).

Mr. Mike
2014-05-13 02:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
How is it possible to get surround sound on a normal CD?
There are plenty of two channel CDs which have Dolby Surround
encoding. I have one of Slatkin performing Varese's Arcana and several
of Henry Mancini, including some Mancini recordings from the
mid-1960s, which does not make any sense, since it is unlikely that
these recordings were made with multi-channel sound in mind. Many (if
not all) of the Gerhardt film music recordings were also remixed and
reissued on CD with Dolby Surround sound.

Very few of these Dolby Surround CDs sound "right" to me ... on the
other hand, there is a Telarc process called Spatializer used with
Lopez-Cobos' Mahler 9th, for example, which has a much more realistic
sound.

As far as how this is all done (i.e., making surround sound), I can't
provide you with an answer to that (too geeky :-).
Loading...