Discussion:
Ein Heldenleben
(too old to reply)
Wagner Fan
2008-07-14 09:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Akiralx
2008-07-14 10:04:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one
is Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live -
Asahina, and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I
should look out for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Haitink - I have it on a Japanses SACD, but easily available on CD.
The Historian
2008-07-14 13:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/CSO

Toscanini/NBC SO
Richard S. Sandmeyer
2008-07-14 14:44:19 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by The Historian
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/CSO
Toscanini/NBC SO
Beecham/Royal Philharmonic (the 1958 stereo recording. There is also a
1947 mono Beecham recording, but I've never heard it.)
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Brendan R. Wehrung
2008-07-15 03:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Historian
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/CSO
Toscanini/NBC SO
And if you wish to enter the used market, one of the two Beechams.

Brendan
Alan Cooper
2008-07-26 15:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Historian
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my
latest one is Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two
favorites are both live - Asahina, and Karajan from a 1974
Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out for????? (I
have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/CSO
Weird taste, perhaps, but I generally prefer Reiner/Pittsburgh to Reiner/CSO despite
the inferior recorded sound. Especially the Pittsburgh Don Quixote, but the
Heldenleben has a lot going for it too.

AC
Simon Roberts
2008-07-14 14:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/RCA, Kempe/EMI, Carlos Kleiber (live, intermittently available, sometimes
in superb sound), and Barbirolli/EMI (if you want a slow, luxuriant wallow) -
plus others I'm likely forgetting.

Simon
Ed Presson
2008-07-14 15:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
Reiner/RCA, Kempe/EMI, Carlos Kleiber (live, intermittently available, sometimes
in superb sound), and Barbirolli/EMI (if you want a slow, luxuriant wallow) -
plus others I'm likely forgetting.
Simon
I certainly concur with the first three of Simon's recommendations. I
don't know the Barbirolli. I don't normally like Haitink's music making
("excess of moderation"), but I do admire his recording of Ein Heldenleben,
but I'd rate it a bit lower than Simon's three.

Ed Presson
j***@aol.com
2008-07-14 14:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.

Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.

After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.

--Jeff
Wagner Fan
2008-07-14 14:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all Wagner Fan
r***@gmail.com
2008-07-14 15:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all Wagner Fan
Asahina was mentioned by the OP. I second the suggestion of Beecham,
Reiner, Karajan etc. Barbirolli is very different- a wallow indeed -
but for a more recent recording Kempe in the EMI or Brilliant box is
excellent too.
j***@aol.com
2008-07-14 15:45:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all Wagner Fan
Asahina was mentioned by the OP.
I think Wagner Fan knows that. :-)
Post by r***@gmail.com
I second the suggestion of Beecham,
Reiner, Karajan etc. Barbirolli is very different- a wallow indeed -
but for a more recent recording Kempe in the EMI or Brilliant box is
excellent too.
Kempe is so old by now, it pains me to think of it as the most recent
possible selection. But it still sounds great!

Bychkov does have superb sound and is an excellent performance as
well. Blomstedt/SF similarly has great sound and is a worthy addition
to any Ein Heldenleben collection.

--Jeff
Michael Schaffer
2008-07-14 19:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg)  Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all  Wagner Fan
Asahina was mentioned by the OP.
I think Wagner Fan knows that. :-)
Post by r***@gmail.com
I second the suggestion of Beecham,
Reiner, Karajan etc. Barbirolli is very different- a wallow indeed -
but for a more recent recording Kempe in the EMI or Brilliant box is
excellent too.
Kempe is so old by now, it pains me to think of it as the most recent
possible selection. But it still sounds great!
Bychkov does have superb sound and is an excellent performance as
well. Blomstedt/SF similarly has great sound and is a worthy addition
to any Ein Heldenleben collection.
--Jeff- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
As far as sound quality is concerned, the best sounding Heldenleben -
by far - that I have heard is Sinopoli's on DG. DG have committed
many, many sound sins, but the sound quality they achieved here is
astonishing. They got the balance between athmosphere and definition,
presence and ambience just right and the recording allows the special
sound of the orchestra (which Sinopoli aptly called "a kind of art
deco sound") to shine and scintillate without being too harsh and
bright. Musically, it is excellent, too, the way Sinopoli opens up and
illuminates the textures makes optimum use of the way they play this
music in Dresden, as complex chamber music rather than a bombastic
blockbuster. But the climaxes are still very impressive, all the more
so since they are in the right places and properly built up to.
Unfortunately, this recording is not easy to find although Arkivmusic
offer a CD-R version.

Luisi's recent recording with the SD is less lush sonically, more
concentrated and recorded more close-up but it also sounds very good
and it is also musically very solid with the orchestra in top form,
without maybe being quite on the level of Kempe and Sinopoli as it is
not quite as free as those. But his recording also has the original
quiet ending, so it is definitely worth having.

Another no to easy to find Heldenleben which should be in every
Strauss collection is Böhm's with the WP, also on DG. For some reason,
this has never been released on CD in the Western world, but it is
available from Japan. It was recorded in the 70s. The sound is very
"natural" and the playing shows this orchestra/conductor combination
at its best.
Steve de Mena
2008-07-15 06:17:49 UTC
Permalink
I recall the Ozawa/BSO (yes, Ozawa) on Philips being surprisingly good
and involving. I'll have to listen to that one again soon to see if
my memory is faulty.

Steve
Dawg
2008-07-15 01:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Bychkov does have superb sound and is an excellent performance as
well. Blomstedt/SF similarly has great sound and is a worthy addition
to any Ein Heldenleben collection.
I collect 'prime cut' Richard Strauss, not 'scrag of neck' stuff. EH
serves as a makeweight to any box though, I'll grant you that.
<g>

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
t***@aol.com
2008-07-15 14:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg)  Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all  Wagner Fan
Asahina was mentioned by the OP.
I think Wagner Fan knows that. :-)
Post by r***@gmail.com
I second the suggestion of Beecham,
Reiner, Karajan etc. Barbirolli is very different- a wallow indeed -
but for a more recent recording Kempe in the EMI or Brilliant box is
excellent too.
Kempe is so old by now, it pains me to think of it as the most recent
possible selection. But it still sounds great!
Bychkov does have superb sound and is an excellent performance as
well. Blomstedt/SF similarly has great sound and is a worthy addition
to any Ein Heldenleben collection.
--Jeff
You prefer Blomstedt's SFS recording to his Dresden one? I like all
HB's Dresden Strauss, but sometimes I think that is half for the sound.
j***@aol.com
2008-07-15 15:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one
is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live -
Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look
out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
I haven't listened to the 1974 HvK yet, but not long ago an earlier
performance with Karajan/NYPO was posted thanks to the dedication of
some rmcr regulars, and it was wonderful. Assuming you have the former
in "in house" sound, you should probably also get at least one of
HvK's studio recordings too.
Sawallisch is good to have because of the different ending, among
other reasons.
After that, it's all speculation as to what you will find at the
Mengelberg level (I assume you have both his Amsterdam and NY
recordings). Haitink, Bychkov (in wonderful sound), Celibidache,
Schuricht, Monteux/BSO, Toscanini, Kempe, Reiner, Carlos Kleiber are
among those who have been near the top of the list for me at one time
or another.
--Jeff
Its funny that no one mentions Asahina and for me he is one of the very best
and most exciting of all Wagner Fan
Asahina was mentioned by the OP.
I think Wagner Fan knows that. :-)
Post by r***@gmail.com
I second the suggestion of Beecham,
Reiner, Karajan etc. Barbirolli is very different- a wallow indeed -
but for a more recent recording Kempe in the EMI or Brilliant box is
excellent too.
Kempe is so old by now, it pains me to think of it as the most recent
possible selection. But it still sounds great!
Bychkov does have superb sound and is an excellent performance as
well. Blomstedt/SF similarly has great sound and is a worthy addition
to any Ein Heldenleben collection.
--Jeff
You prefer Blomstedt's SFS recording to his Dresden one? I like all
HB's Dresden Strauss, but sometimes I think that is half for the sound.
Good question. I don't remember if I've heard HB's Dresden recording--
I might have checked out of the library 20 years ago but not purchased
it, as I did with his Bruckner on Denon. So...I can't tell you which I
prefer. I like Blomstedt in SF enough not to pursue the Denon
recording vigorously (I have another of the Dresden/Blomstedt Strauss
discs, and I very much like their Mozart together as well). But I
agree that the sound on those (both series, actually) was half the
fun--part of the reason I did end up purchasing some of it.

With Luisi and Sinopoli and Kempe being excellent alternatives (I
heard Sinopoli/Dresden do EH live, but haven't heard the recording),
the preference for Blomstedt becomes a matter of orchestras for me,
the Monteux recording being from a distant era for the SFS.

--Jeff
p***@yahoo.com
2008-07-26 15:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg)  Wagner Fan
The early 50s Ormandy recording is still available from Haydn House.
It's another example of a very good Ormandy recording from that late
mono period that's never made it onto a commercial CD.

Barry
gggg gggg
2022-01-28 08:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Jan/Strauss-Heldenleben-survey.htm
gggg gggg
2022-11-14 21:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Jan/Strauss-Heldenleben-survey.htm
(Recent radio program):

https://www.wfmt.com/2022/11/13/willem-mengelberg-and-the-concertgebouw-orchestra/
gggg gggg
2022-11-14 19:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wagner Fan
Every so often I go on music binges and for better or worse my latest one is
Strauss's Ein Heldenleben. So far my two favorites are both live - Asahina,
and Karajan from a 1974 Carnegie Hall Concert. Any others I should look out
for????? (I have the Mengelberg) Wagner Fan
(Upcoming radio program):

https://www.wfmt.com/2022/11/13/willem-mengelberg-and-the-concertgebouw-orchestra/
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