Discussion:
Soler's Six Concertos for 2 organs
(too old to reply)
Ed Presson
2019-08-19 15:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Soler: 6 Concertos for 2 Organs. Jürgen Essl & Jeremy Joseph, organists.
Cybele SACD 031802

In my mind was an ideal performance: I wanted it to be rollicking and
joyous. I collected a number of LPs decades ago that, in moments, suggested
that such a performance was possible. My LP favorites back then were the
Biggs & Pinkham (Columbia) and the Newman & Payne (Turnabout). In my
opinion, the most disappointing LP at the time was Gilbert & Pinnock; to me
they sounded like two constipated Puritans that totally missed all the joy
in the music.

Since the advent of CDs, I had accumulated six CDs of these works, but never
found a commercial release of my two favorites from the LP days. None of
the CDs equaled those.

In a recent Fanfare magazine, I read a rave review by James Altena, whose
view of the music seemed to match mine. So, I took a deep breath and
ordered this SACD.

I have been relishing the Essl and Joseph performances for the past two
weeks. The recording was made on two historical organs in a Mexico City
cathedral in splendid SACD sound.

This is, by far, my favorite performance. I love the imagination and wit in
their choice of organ registers (if that's the right term) as well as the
bubbling tempos. The two performers seem to be having a really great time,
and so am I. No stodgy HIP playing this.

I was totally surprised when after the first 12 SACD 2-channel bands (I
don't have surround sound), a voice announced that a binaural version would
follow. I got to hear the whole program again in different sound! Sheer
joy.

Of course, YMMV.

Ed Presson
JohnGavin
2019-08-19 15:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Agree on the Newman / Payne, Biggs / Pinkham. I also liked a 2-Piano recording with Goldstone and partner as well as Anton and Erna Heillor on Vanguard.
Ricardo Jimenez
2019-08-19 17:43:31 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 08:38:33 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin
Post by JohnGavin
Agree on the Newman / Payne, Biggs / Pinkham. I also liked a 2-Piano recording with Goldstone and partner as well as Anton and Erna Heillor on Vanguard.
Spotify has Noel Rawsthorne and Terence Duffy, Marizio Croci and
Pieter van Dijk, Gareth Price and Graham Howell, John Paul and Shawn
Leopard. Any recommendions among them?
Ricardo Jimenez
2019-08-19 17:44:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 13:43:31 -0400, Ricardo Jimenez
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 08:38:33 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin
Post by JohnGavin
Agree on the Newman / Payne, Biggs / Pinkham. I also liked a 2-Piano recording with Goldstone and partner as well as Anton and Erna Heillor on Vanguard.
Spotify has Noel Rawsthorne and Terence Duffy, Marizio Croci and
Pieter van Dijk, Gareth Price and Graham Howell, John Paul and Shawn
Leopard. Any recommendions among them?
I forgot, also Tini Mathot and Ton Koopman.
JohnGavin
2019-08-19 18:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Spotify has Noel Rawsthorne and Terence Duffy, Marizio Croci and
Pieter van Dijk, Gareth Price and Graham Howell, John Paul and Shawn
Leopard. Any recommendions among them?

——————————————————————————

Sorry to say I don’
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-19 16:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Presson
Soler: 6 Concertos for 2 Organs. Jürgen Essl & Jeremy Joseph, organists.
Cybele SACD 031802
In my mind was an ideal performance: I wanted it to be rollicking and
joyous. I collected a number of LPs decades ago that, in moments, suggested
that such a performance was possible. My LP favorites back then were the
Biggs & Pinkham (Columbia) and the Newman & Payne (Turnabout). In my
opinion, the most disappointing LP at the time was Gilbert & Pinnock; to me
they sounded like two constipated Puritans that totally missed all the joy
in the music.
Since the advent of CDs, I had accumulated six CDs of these works, but never
found a commercial release of my two favorites from the LP days. None of
the CDs equaled those.
In a recent Fanfare magazine, I read a rave review by James Altena, whose
view of the music seemed to match mine. So, I took a deep breath and
ordered this SACD.
I have been relishing the Essl and Joseph performances for the past two
weeks. The recording was made on two historical organs in a Mexico City
cathedral in splendid SACD sound.
This is, by far, my favorite performance. I love the imagination and wit in
their choice of organ registers (if that's the right term) as well as the
bubbling tempos. The two performers seem to be having a really great time,
and so am I. No stodgy HIP playing this.
I was totally surprised when after the first 12 SACD 2-channel bands (I
don't have surround sound), a voice announced that a binaural version would
follow. I got to hear the whole program again in different sound! Sheer
joy.
Of course, YMMV.
Ed Presson
Thanks for the recommendation, Ed! These are adorable works. I still have and enjoy the Erato via MHS LP made in Bologna by Marie-Claire Alain & Luigi Ferdinando Tagliavini. Rather laid back but charming nonetheless, and enhanced by the sound of birds chirping in the basilica. (I think I'm remembering that correctly; haven't listened in a while.)

AC
Alan Dawes
2019-08-20 10:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Presson
Soler: 6 Concertos for 2 Organs. Jürgen Essl & Jeremy Joseph,
organists. Cybele SACD 031802
In my mind was an ideal performance: I wanted it to be rollicking and
joyous. I collected a number of LPs decades ago that, in moments,
suggested that such a performance was possible. My LP favorites back
then were the Biggs & Pinkham (Columbia) and the Newman & Payne
(Turnabout). In my opinion, the most disappointing LP at the time was
Gilbert & Pinnock; to me they sounded like two constipated Puritans
that totally missed all the joy in the music.
Since the advent of CDs, I had accumulated six CDs of these works, but
never found a commercial release of my two favorites from the LP days.
None of the CDs equaled those.
In a recent Fanfare magazine, I read a rave review by James Altena,
whose view of the music seemed to match mine. So, I took a deep breath
and ordered this SACD.
I have been relishing the Essl and Joseph performances for the past two
weeks. The recording was made on two historical organs in a Mexico City
cathedral in splendid SACD sound.
This is, by far, my favorite performance. I love the imagination and
wit in their choice of organ registers (if that's the right term) as
well as the bubbling tempos. The two performers seem to be having a
really great time, and so am I. No stodgy HIP playing this.
I was totally surprised when after the first 12 SACD 2-channel bands (I
don't have surround sound), a voice announced that a binaural version
would follow. I got to hear the whole program again in different
sound! Sheer joy.
Of course, YMMV.
Ed Presson
I don't know any of Soler's music, are these double organ concertos a good
place to start? Am I wrong in thinking that as they were written in the
18th century they are for 2 small chamber organs and orchestra?

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
JohnGavin
2019-08-20 11:58:13 UTC
Permalink
They were composed for 2 keyboard instruments - no orchestra. The are usually performed on harpsichords and organs - in all combinations. They work beautifully on 2 pianos as well.

My own recommendations for Soler Sonatas are on YouTube. Puyana plays Soler - Sonatas and Fandango and Frederick Marvin Plays 9 Sonatas and Fandango.
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-20 13:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Dawes
I don't know any of Soler's music, are these double organ concertos a good
place to start? Am I wrong in thinking that as they were written in the
18th century they are for 2 small chamber organs and orchestra?
Alan
--
Using an ARMX6
I'd start with solo keyboard sonatas, esp. if you like Scarlatti. I particularly enjoy performances on a modern piano, and recommend Alicia de Larrocha (in the EMI Icon box) and Luis Fernando Pérez (Mirare). There are many other options if you prefer harpsichord, including complete sets--too much of a muchness, imo. While claiming no expertise whatsoever, a harpsichord selection that I like is Richard Lester's (Nimbus), and second John's recommendation of Puyana. Are any of Bob van Asperen's recordings in print?

AC
Not a Dentist
2019-08-20 15:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Dawes
I don't know any of Soler's music, are these double organ concertos a good
place to start?
Solo sonatas are presumably more characteristic of Soler's output, but the six concertos are truly wonderful, charming and witty, and with plenty of atmosphere. Not to be missed, as they say!

I have discovered that there are perhaps a DOZEN different sets of these works online one place or another: even the elusive E. Power Biggs/Daniel Pinkham on Columbia has been reissued by Pristine.

Happy hunting!
Ricardo Jimenez
2019-08-20 16:48:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Not a Dentist
Post by Not a Dentist
Post by Alan Dawes
I don't know any of Soler's music, are these double organ concertos a good
place to start?
Solo sonatas are presumably more characteristic of Soler's output, but the six concertos are truly wonderful, charming and witty, and with plenty of atmosphere. Not to be missed, as they say!
I have discovered that there are perhaps a DOZEN different sets of these works online one place or another: even the elusive E. Power Biggs/Daniel Pinkham on Columbia has been reissued by Pristine.
Happy hunting!
There is a Brilliant box (on Spotify by the way) that claims to have
all the Soler keyboard sonatas, fandango and 6 concertos for 2 organs.
Belder, Croci and Van Dijk are the artists.
JohnGavin
2019-08-20 17:33:03 UTC
Permalink
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.

Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.

The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Frank Berger
2019-08-20 18:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.
The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban Rodriquez
and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
Frank Berger
2019-08-20 18:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate
compositions.  Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level
of Scarlatti.  I have found that many of these works are written in
predictable, cliched modulatory patterns.  There often seems to be a
lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums or
CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a
selection of around 15.  This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca),
Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.
The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban Rodriquez
and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
I blew that. Puyana is also harpsichord and it's Santiago Rodriquez
(on piano), not Estaban.
Arno Schuh
2019-08-22 22:41:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate
compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level
of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in
predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a
lack of genuine melodic inventiveness. Interestingly, when
distinguished performers recorded single albums
or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a
selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca),
Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury. The Fandango is
perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban Rodriquez
and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
Frank Berger
2019-08-23 00:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate
compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level
of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in
predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a
lack of genuine melodic inventiveness. Interestingly, when
distinguished performers recorded single albums
or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a
selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca),
Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury. The Fandango is
perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban Rodriquez
and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D minor.
Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Arno Schuh
2019-08-23 09:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate
compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius
level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are
written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often
seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness. Interestingly,
when distinguished performers recorded single albums
or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a
selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca),
Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury. The
Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban
Rodriquez and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D minor.
Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Years ago I bought some volumes of Isidro Barrio's CDs. In one of the
booklets he wrote that he discussed the authorship of the Fandango. Perhap
this source tells you more:
http://www.chateaugris.com/Soler/solerpag.htm
That's of course similar to Bach and the Toccata und Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565.
You are not willing to believe the true.

Yours sincerely

Arno
Ricardo Jimenez
2019-08-23 13:31:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:34:43 +0200, "Arno Schuh"
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D minor.
Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Years ago I bought some volumes of Isidro Barrio's CDs. In one of the
booklets he wrote that he discussed the authorship of the Fandango. Perhap
http://www.chateaugris.com/Soler/solerpag.htm
That's of course similar to Bach and the Toccata und Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565.
You are not willing to believe the true.
Yours sincerely
Arno
I read the reference and while it raises a reasonable doubt that the
Fandango was written by Soler, stating that "The Fandango probably
isn't from Soler." goes too far, IMHO. Possibily is a better word
here.
Frank Berger
2019-08-23 13:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate
compositions.  Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius
level of Scarlatti.  I have found that many of these works are
written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns.  There often
seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums
or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a
selection of around 15.  This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca),
Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.   The
Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban
Rodriquez and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D minor.
Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Years ago I bought some volumes of Isidro Barrio's CDs. In one of the
booklets he wrote that he discussed the authorship of the Fandango.
http://www.chateaugris.com/Soler/solerpag.htm
That's of course similar to Bach and the Toccata und Fuge in d-Moll BWV
565. You are not willing to believe the true.
Yours sincerely
Arno
The briefness of your comment misled me about your meaning. I thought
you meant one of the three I mentioned wasn't the "Soler" Fandango. I
see you are questioning the authorship altogether. A searcn revealed
only the reference you provided. I am totally unqualified to form an
opinion of my own, but wonder if this was widely accepted that there
would be more discussion of it, since the Fandango seems to be Soler's
most popular work.
Arno Schuh
2019-08-23 18:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first
rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the
genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works
are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There
often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single
albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same
Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha
(EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips /
Mercury. The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its
time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban
Rodriquez and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D
minor. Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Years ago I bought some volumes of Isidro Barrio's CDs. In one of the
booklets he wrote that he discussed the authorship of the Fandango.
http://www.chateaugris.com/Soler/solerpag.htm
That's of course similar to Bach and the Toccata und Fuge in d-Moll
BWV 565. You are not willing to believe the true.
Yours sincerely
Arno
The briefness of your comment misled me about your meaning. I thought
you meant one of the three I mentioned wasn't the "Soler" Fandango. I
see you are questioning the authorship altogether. A searcn revealed
only the reference you provided. I am totally unqualified to form an
opinion of my own, but wonder if this was widely accepted that there
would be more discussion of it, since the Fandango seems to be Soler's
most popular work.
That's why I mentioned the similar problem with Bach and the Toccata and
Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565. It hurts to accept that a singular piece that was
connected, a synonym between an important composer and his important piece,
no longer is true. There are some other examples like the Adagio from
Albinoni (Giazotto), the Trumpet Voluntary by Purcell (now Prince of
Denmark's March by Clarke), Toy Symphonie by Leopold Mozart, than Josef
Haydn (in Real probably from Süssmayr), the 6 Concerti armonici by Paisiello
(Wassenaer) and many more.
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but an until
now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his Sonatas and the even
more less known works.

Yours sincerely

Arno
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-23 19:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arno Schuh
That's why I mentioned the similar problem with Bach and the Toccata and
Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565. It hurts to accept that a singular piece that was
connected, a synonym between an important composer and his important piece,
no longer is true. There are some other examples like the Adagio from
Albinoni (Giazotto), the Trumpet Voluntary by Purcell (now Prince of
Denmark's March by Clarke), Toy Symphonie by Leopold Mozart, than Josef
Haydn (in Real probably from Süssmayr), the 6 Concerti armonici by Paisiello
(Wassenaer) and many more.
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but an until
now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his Sonatas and the even
more less known works.
You meant Pergolesi rather than Paisiello for the Concerti armonici. They're masterpieces no matter who composed them. Otoh, Albinoni should be glad to be rid of that treacly Adagio; his authentic works are much better. How about the "Haydn" Serenade op. 3/5, really by Roman Hoffstetter; and who composed the "Haydn" theme on which Brahms based his great set of variations? Etc. Etc.

AC
Arno Schuh
2019-08-23 20:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Arno Schuh
That's why I mentioned the similar problem with Bach and the Toccata
and Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565. It hurts to accept that a singular piece
that was connected, a synonym between an important composer and his
important piece, no longer is true. There are some other examples
like the Adagio from Albinoni (Giazotto), the Trumpet Voluntary by
Purcell (now Prince of Denmark's March by Clarke), Toy Symphonie by
Leopold Mozart, than Josef Haydn (in Real probably from Süssmayr),
the 6 Concerti armonici by Paisiello (Wassenaer) and many more.
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but
an until now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his
Sonatas and the even more less known works.
You meant Pergolesi rather than Paisiello for the Concerti armonici.
Sorry, of course you're right.

Arno
Ed Presson
2019-08-23 19:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arno Schuh
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but an until
now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his Sonatas and the even
more less known works.
Yours sincerely
Arno
Do you include the Six Concertos for 2 Organs as a "lesser known work"?

Ed Presson
Frank Berger
2019-08-23 20:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Presson
Post by Arno Schuh
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but an until
now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his Sonatas and the even
more less known works.
Yours sincerely
Arn
Do you include the Six Concertos for 2 Organs as a "lesser known work"?
Ed Presson
I'm no Soler expert, but if one the two most important "Soler" works
really is to be attributed to someone else, doesn't that really put a
dent in Soler's status as a composer?

One thing bothers me a little. It's not like someone has presented any
evidence pointing to another composer. So which "story" is more
plausible - that Soler wrote something that didn't sound like anything
else he wrote or that some unknown person write the Fandango and
probably nothing else of that quality or style or whatever (since no
suspect has been named)? I defer to the real experts to answer that.
Frank Berger
2019-08-23 19:46:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Arno Schuh
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first
rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the
genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works
are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There
often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single
albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same
Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha
(EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips /
Mercury. The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its
time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban
Rodriquez and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
The Fandango probably isn't from Soler.
I checked all three and they are indeed the Soler Fandango in D
minor. Why did you say otherwise. You must have had a reason.
Years ago I bought some volumes of Isidro Barrio's CDs. In one of the
booklets he wrote that he discussed the authorship of the Fandango.
http://www.chateaugris.com/Soler/solerpag.htm
That's of course similar to Bach and the Toccata und Fuge in d-Moll
BWV 565. You are not willing to believe the true.
Yours sincerely
Arno
The briefness of your comment misled me about your meaning.  I thought
you meant one of the three I mentioned wasn't the "Soler" Fandango.  I
see you are questioning the authorship altogether.  A searcn revealed
only the reference you provided.  I am totally unqualified to form an
opinion of my own, but wonder if this was widely accepted that there
would be more discussion of it, since the Fandango seems to be Soler's
most popular work.
That's why I mentioned the similar problem with Bach and the Toccata and
Fuge in d-Moll BWV 565. It hurts to accept that a singular piece that
was connected, a synonym between an important composer and his important
piece, no longer is true. There are some other examples like the Adagio
from Albinoni (Giazotto), the Trumpet Voluntary by Purcell (now Prince
of Denmark's March by Clarke), Toy Symphonie by Leopold Mozart, than
Josef Haydn (in Real probably from Süssmayr), the 6 Concerti armonici by
Paisiello (Wassenaer) and many more.
If it becomes true that the Fandango isn't composed by Soler - but an
until now totally unknown composer - Soler is reduced to his Sonatas and
the even more less known works.
Yours sincerely
Arno
I understand.
u***@gmail.com
2019-08-25 18:28:37 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 2:10:33 PM UTC-4, Arno Schuh wrote:

Is everyone content with K. 297B?
Frank Berger
2019-08-26 00:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by u***@gmail.com
Is everyone content with K. 297B?
Music experts (which I am not) are divided as to its provenance. Far be
it for me to have an independent opinion,
Not a Dentist
2019-08-26 03:19:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by u***@gmail.com
Is everyone content with K. 297B?
Music experts (which I am not) are divided as to its provenance. Far be
it for me to have an independent opinion,
I remain unconvinced that the work as we know it is by Mozart. Will need to give Levin another listen. (Is there a more recent recording that supersedes the Marriner?)
Johannes Roehl
2019-08-25 16:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.
The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
Agree that the Fandango is wonderful. I have Puyana, Esteban Rodriquez
and Scott Ross (harpsichord).
I think the Fandango is overrated and not a very good representation of Soler's work. I found many other sonatas more enjoyable. Although I cannot remember the numbers. Soler may not be as good as Scarlatti, but I think his music is relatively underrated.

De Larrocha unfortunately did not even play one full LP worth of them but it is a pretty good start. There is a very good disc on EMI with Marie Luise Hinrichs (piano), concentrating on more "meditative" pieces (I think there is another on cpo, but I have not that one). The Brilliant box is far from complete but I found it also rewarding. I have a few of the Naxos (Rowland on harpsichord) as well and they are also pretty good.
j***@gmail.com
2019-08-21 20:09:54 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
I have found that out of about 200 Sonatas, about 20 are first rate compositions. Generally speaking, Soler was not on the genius level of Scarlatti. I have found that many of these works are written in predictable, cliched modulatory patterns. There often seems to be a lack of genuine melodic inventiveness.
Interestingly, when distinguished performers recorded single albums or CDs of 8 or so Sonatas, they all chose the same Sonatas from a selection of around 15. This includes De Larrocha (EMI and Decca), Valenti on Westminster, Puyana on Phillips / Mercury.
The Fandango is perhaps his greatest work - ahead of its time.
My introduction to Soler was E Power Biggs' "Historic Organs of Spain" with "The Emperor's Fanfare", a movement from one of the Sonatas for Two Organs, with the blaring trompeta reales being simultaneously my introduction to Spanish pipe organs.

I really enjoyed Kipnis' recording of the Fandango and sonatas on harpsichord, with the leather plectra providing a very guitar-like sounds, as well as his use of 16' stops.
Ed Presson
2019-08-21 03:00:24 UTC
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Post by Ed Presson
Soler: 6 Concertos for 2 Organs. Jürgen Essl & Jeremy Joseph,
organists. Cybele SACD 031802
In my mind was an ideal performance: I wanted it to be rollicking and
joyous. > I have been relishing the Essl and Joseph performances for the
past two
weeks. The recording was made on two historical organs in a Mexico City
cathedral in splendid SACD sound.
This is, by far, my favorite performance. I love the imagination and
wit in their choice of organ registers (if that's the right term) as
well as the bubbling tempos. The two performers seem to be having a
really great time, and so am I. No stodgy HIP playing this.
Ed Presson
I don't know any of Soler's music, are these double organ concertos a good
place to start? Am I wrong in thinking that as they were written in the
18th century they are for 2 small chamber organs and orchestra?

Alan
__________________

The six concertos are written for 2 organs alone (no orchestra). They have
been done by 2 pianists, 2 harpsichordists, and in various combinations; to
my knowledge there are no versions with an orchestra
.
I think the CD reviewed above is great way to start. I think the 2-organ
recordings bring more color to the concertos.

Soler's Fandango, usually performed on the harpsichord, is a fun piece. I
like the Puyana, but there are many recordings of the piece.

Ed Presson
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