Discussion:
Hurwitz: Chailly's new Brahms Serenades disc dubbed 'CD From Hell'
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Oscar
2015-04-01 01:09:16 UTC
Permalink
One of the more 'entertaining' features of Classics Today since the relaunch a few years ago is the relabeling of some formerly low-rated discs with 'CD From Hell' titling. This also applies to some new releases as well. Because Chailly's Brahms Symphonies set received much analysis and debate herein in 2011 (not to mention the benchmark Freire Brahms Concertos), and since the Brahms Serenades review is behind the pay wall, I thought I'd post David Hurwitz's full review here for all to see. Has anyone heard this disc?


<< CD From Hell: Chailly's Faceless Brahms Serenades
Review by: David Hurwitz

Artistic quality 5
Sound quality 9

Chailly has gone "authentic." First he made a magnificent recording of the two Brahms piano concerto with Nelson Freire, then he decided to rethink-and I used the term advisedly-his approach to the composer, and out came the dullest recording of the symphonies in years. The new Chailly is old news: a quasi-period performance vision that allies quick tempos, imposed with metronomic rigidity, with light textures and rhythms. We've been there and heard that. Still, you would think that this approach would work well in the Serenades, which are light(er) music after all, but such is not the case. Given the Leipzig orchestra's sovereign command of the notes, the result is perfect, but it's the perfection of a featureless sphere. You could die of boredom.

Consider the First Serenade. The opening looks to be excitingly swift, but the tame trumpets, smooth strings, and general lack of accent neuter the music. Compare this to a truly authentic version: André Vandernoot with the Paris Conservatory Orchestra from 1956, and Chailly's deficiencies are obvious. I chose this comparison not just because Vandernoot was a fine conductor with a funny last name (his fans are called "Vandernuts"), but to give a sense of how far away we truly are from the living tradition of playing Brahms in a manner than he might perhaps have recognized. Chailly's approach makes a particular scramble out of the second scherzo and, especially, the finale, and it only really works in the Adagio, which benefits from a certain lightness and flow. Otherwise, the performance merely skates along the surface of the music.

The same observations hold true for the Second Serenade. This was the piece in which Brahms learned how to write for the woodwind section, but whenever the dynamics are soft one gets the impression that the players are muttering the music rather than playing it with the necessary character. It has no shape. Make no mistake this is certainly intentional. It takes real work to make an orchestra of this calibre sound so sterile. You'd just have to be out of your mind to want to hear it. The outer movements of the piece, in particular, practically die of daintiness.

I applaud Chailly's willingness to revisit his interpretive ideas. After all, his first Brahms cycle (with the Concertgebouw Orchestra) also was dull, if traditionally so, but this is certainly no improvement.

Recording Details:
Reference Recording: Belohlávek (Supraphon); Boult (EMI)

BRAHMS, JOHANNES:
Serenades Nos. 1 and 2
Chailly, Riccardo (conductor)
Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra
Decca - 478 6775 CD >>

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-chaillys-faceless-brahms-serenades/
Gerard
2015-04-01 08:19:30 UTC
Permalink
"Oscar" wrote in message news:d96fd2f4-2473-43ba-908b-***@googlegroups.com...

One of the more 'entertaining' features of Classics Today since the relaunch
a few years ago is the relabeling of some formerly low-rated discs with 'CD
From Hell' titling. This also applies to some new releases as well. Because
Chailly's Brahms Symphonies set received much analysis and debate herein in
2011 (not to mention the benchmark Freire Brahms Concertos), and since the
Brahms Serenades review is behind the pay wall, I thought I'd post David
Hurwitz's full review here for all to see. Has anyone heard this disc?


<< CD From Hell: Chailly's Faceless Brahms Serenades
Review by: David Hurwitz

Artistic quality 5
Sound quality 9

Chailly has gone "authentic." First he made a magnificent recording of the
two Brahms piano concerto with Nelson Freire, then he decided to rethink-and
I used the term advisedly-his approach to the composer, and out came the
dullest recording of the symphonies in years. The new Chailly is old news: a
quasi-period performance vision that allies quick tempos, imposed with
metronomic rigidity, with light textures and rhythms. We've been there and
heard that. Still, you would think that this approach would work well in the
Serenades, which are light(er) music after all, but such is not the case.
Given the Leipzig orchestra's sovereign command of the notes, the result is
perfect, but it's the perfection of a featureless sphere. You could die of
boredom.

Consider the First Serenade. The opening looks to be excitingly swift, but
the tame trumpets, smooth strings, and general lack of accent neuter the
music. Compare this to a truly authentic version: André Vandernoot with the
Paris Conservatory Orchestra from 1956, and Chailly's deficiencies are
obvious. I chose this comparison not just because Vandernoot was a fine
conductor with a funny last name (his fans are called "Vandernuts"), but to
give a sense of how far away we truly are from the living tradition of
playing Brahms in a manner than he might perhaps have recognized. Chailly's
approach makes a particular scramble out of the second scherzo and,
especially, the finale, and it only really works in the Adagio, which
benefits from a certain lightness and flow. Otherwise, the performance
merely skates along the surface of the music.

The same observations hold true for the Second Serenade. This was the piece
in which Brahms learned how to write for the woodwind section, but whenever
the dynamics are soft one gets the impression that the players are muttering
the music rather than playing it with the necessary character. It has no
shape. Make no mistake this is certainly intentional. It takes real work to
make an orchestra of this calibre sound so sterile. You'd just have to be
out of your mind to want to hear it. The outer movements of the piece, in
particular, practically die of daintiness.

I applaud Chailly's willingness to revisit his interpretive ideas. After
all, his first Brahms cycle (with the Concertgebouw Orchestra) also was
dull, if traditionally so, but this is certainly no improvement.

Recording Details:
Reference Recording: Belohlávek (Supraphon); Boult (EMI)

BRAHMS, JOHANNES:
Serenades Nos. 1 and 2
Chailly, Riccardo (conductor)
Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra
Decca - 478 6775 CD >>

==========================================================

Thanks for posting this. I had seen that there was something in the
"insiders" section about this recording, and I'ld like to know what . So now
I know.

I have the disc. I was disappointed about it.
On February 14 I wrote in this newsgroup, in the thread WAYLTL - February
2015:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -
More serenades by Brahms.

Brahms: Serenade 1 & 2 / Gewandhausorchester, Chailly (Decca)

These are fast, "strong" performances. Beautifully played. Praised to the
sky on Dutch radio. But not as splendid as is told there during a whole week
already.
The first impression is: fast and agressive. Specially the movements 1, 2, 5
and (most of all) 6 of Serenade #1. Lacking charm. Not relaxed.
Orchestral showpieces, but no serenades.
An approach that fits a lot of Beethoven's music, and to some degree
symphonies by Brahms - but it does not work here.
Where's the fun of this music? What's there to hurry? (Chailly needs 10 or
more minutes less than other conductors for the 2 serenades together.)

Serenade #2 fares better, after the second movement and before the fifth
movement that is.

Sound is good, but not great.

Favorite (for me) stays Belohlavek (Supraphon). And all others.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Lionel Tacchini
2015-04-01 08:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Thanks for posting this. I had seen that there was something in the
"insiders" section about this recording, and I'ld like to know what . So
now I know.
And now it's also on Spotify, for those who want to take a trip to what
Hurwitz calls Hell:

https://open.spotify.com/album/1FTiuRtJUsEhhpbgBbGSrk
--
Lionel Tacchini
t***@gmail.com
2015-04-01 12:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar
One of the more 'entertaining' features of Classics Today since the relaunch a few years ago is the relabeling of some formerly low-rated discs with 'CD From Hell' titling. This also applies to some new releases as well. Because Chailly's Brahms Symphonies set received much analysis and debate herein in 2011 (not to mention the benchmark Freire Brahms Concertos), and since the Brahms Serenades review is behind the pay wall, I thought I'd post David Hurwitz's full review here for all to see. Has anyone heard this disc?
Heard a few excerpts of this disc on the radio and was especially amazed about his tempo of the Rondo of nr 1, much too fast in my opinion.... I still prefer Haitink in these underrated pieces.

TW
Bob Harper
2015-04-01 16:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Oscar
One of the more 'entertaining' features of Classics Today since the
relaunch a few years ago is the relabeling of some formerly
low-rated discs with 'CD From Hell' titling. This also applies to
some new releases as well. Because Chailly's Brahms Symphonies set
received much analysis and debate herein in 2011 (not to mention
the benchmark Freire Brahms Concertos), and since the Brahms
Serenades review is behind the pay wall, I thought I'd post David
Hurwitz's full review here for all to see. Has anyone heard this
disc?
Heard a few excerpts of this disc on the radio and was especially
amazed about his tempo of the Rondo of nr 1, much too fast in my
opinion.... I still prefer Haitink in these underrated pieces.
TW
Agreed about Haitink--and for his recordings of the Symphonies
(Phillips). My favorite, though, if this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Serenades-1-2-J-Brahms/dp/B00128YE2Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427904079&sr=8-2&keywords=brahms+serenades+cpo


Bob Harper
Lionel Tacchini
2015-04-01 16:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Agreed about Haitink--and for his recordings of the Symphonies
http://www.amazon.com/Serenades-1-2-J-Brahms/dp/B00128YE2Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427904079&sr=8-2&keywords=brahms+serenades+cpo
I heard some of that and quite liked it. I might try and listen to more.
--
Lionel Tacchini
Lionel Tacchini
2015-04-03 08:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar
Compare this to a truly authentic version: André Vandernoot with the
Paris Conservatory Orchestra from 1956, and Chailly's deficiencies
are obvious.
For the curious, the recording of the 1st Serenade by Vandernoot can be
heard here:
https://open.spotify.com/album/1TTpDqK67tkpjFfdQKEr8S

It sounds like Furtwängler.
--
Lionel Tacchini
Andrew Clarke
2015-04-04 11:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar
One of the more 'entertaining' features of Classics Today since the relaunch a few years ago is the relabeling of some formerly low-rated discs with 'CD From Hell' titling. This also applies to some new releases as well. Because Chailly's Brahms Symphonies set received much analysis and debate herein in 2011 (not to mention the benchmark Freire Brahms Concertos), and since the Brahms Serenades review is behind the pay wall, I thought I'd post David Hurwitz's full review here for all to see. Has anyone heard this disc?
<< CD From Hell: Chailly's Faceless Brahms Serenades
Review by: David Hurwitz
Artistic quality 5
Sound quality 9
Chailly has gone "authentic." First he made a magnificent recording of the two Brahms piano concerto with Nelson Freire, then he decided to rethink-and I used the term advisedly-his approach to the composer, and out came the dullest recording of the symphonies in years. The new Chailly is old news: a quasi-period performance vision that allies quick tempos, imposed with metronomic rigidity, with light textures and rhythms. We've been there and heard that. Still, you would think that this approach would work well in the Serenades, which are light(er) music after all, but such is not the case. Given the Leipzig orchestra's sovereign command of the notes, the result is perfect, but it's the perfection of a featureless sphere. You could die of boredom.
Consider the First Serenade. The opening looks to be excitingly swift, but the tame trumpets, smooth strings, and general lack of accent neuter the music. Compare this to a truly authentic version: André Vandernoot with the Paris Conservatory Orchestra from 1956, and Chailly's deficiencies are obvious. I chose this comparison not just because Vandernoot was a fine conductor with a funny last name (his fans are called "Vandernuts"), but to give a sense of how far away we truly are from the living tradition of playing Brahms in a manner than he might perhaps have recognized. Chailly's approach makes a particular scramble out of the second scherzo and, especially, the finale, and it only really works in the Adagio, which benefits from a certain lightness and flow. Otherwise, the performance merely skates along the surface of the music.
The same observations hold true for the Second Serenade. This was the piece in which Brahms learned how to write for the woodwind section, but whenever the dynamics are soft one gets the impression that the players are muttering the music rather than playing it with the necessary character. It has no shape. Make no mistake this is certainly intentional. It takes real work to make an orchestra of this calibre sound so sterile. You'd just have to be out of your mind to want to hear it. The outer movements of the piece, in particular, practically die of daintiness.
I applaud Chailly's willingness to revisit his interpretive ideas. After all, his first Brahms cycle (with the Concertgebouw Orchestra) also was dull, if traditionally so, but this is certainly no improvement.
Reference Recording: Belohlávek (Supraphon); Boult (EMI)
Serenades Nos. 1 and 2
Chailly, Riccardo (conductor)
Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra
Decca - 478 6775 CD >>
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-chaillys-faceless-brahms-serenades/
I would like to publicly thank the Realtor from Hell for drawing my attention to these performances, which I'm thoroughly enjoying. Interestingly, the claim that Chailly is attempting an "authentic" or "hip" performance is David's own: the program notes make no mention of this. Chailly justifies the fast tempo for the opening Allegro of the first Serenade because in his opinion, with a slower tempo the movement not only never seems to end, it never really gets going ...

Yes, I've downloaded it in FLAC, but I also made a copy in AAC which also sounds fine.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Lionel Tacchini
2015-04-04 11:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
I would like to publicly thank the Realtor from Hell for drawing my
attention to these performances, which I'm thoroughly enjoying.
I have enjoyed them very much myself.
Post by Andrew Clarke
Interestingly, the claim that Chailly is attempting an "authentic" or
"hip" performance is David's own: the program notes make no mention
of this.
There is none of the "rhythmic rigidity" he complains about either. I
guess he's started to see shadows closing in on him and now they got to
the point where they are also playing music.
--
Lionel Tacchini
Andrew Clarke
2015-04-06 20:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lionel Tacchini
Post by Andrew Clarke
I would like to publicly thank the Realtor from Hell for drawing my
attention to these performances, which I'm thoroughly enjoying.
I have enjoyed them very much myself.
Post by Andrew Clarke
Interestingly, the claim that Chailly is attempting an "authentic" or
"hip" performance is David's own: the program notes make no mention
of this.
There is none of the "rhythmic rigidity" he complains about either. I
guess he's started to see shadows closing in on him and now they got to
the point where they are also playing music.
Big Dave probably doesn't like the comparative absence of string vibrato either, another of his shibboleths. Cf Marin Alsop's German Requiem, also with brisk tempi and no string vibrato, which he probably doesn't like either.

Meanwhile, let us celebrate French musicians with (originally)Italian names:







Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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