Favorite Haydn symphony 104?

[Dan Amodeo]

What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.

If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.

Dan Amodeo

[ansermetniac]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:34:30 GMT, "Dan Amodeo"

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Toscanini

Munchinger


Schroeder(Chamber version)

Abbedd

[Paul Goldstein]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.

My favorite is Krips/LSO, a Readers Digest recording that was and may still be
available on Chesky. Why? Mostly because Krips dramatizes the amazing
mood-swings of the finale better than any other conductor I've ever heard. And
because the recording is one of Gerhardt-Wilkinson's best, which means it's a
superb reproduction of a great orchestra in a wonderful space.

[Akiralx]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would
replace it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Concertgebouw/Harnoncourt.

[Bastian Kubis]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.

This is a rare case where I may have a dozen or so recordings of a
piece, but don't have to hesitate for a second to name my favourite:
Brüggen's. I love HIP sonorities in Haydn (and I realise some don't);
but the main point, for me, is that Brüggen makes this symphony sound
bigger, grander, more important than anybody else I've heard. Just
listen to the sharp attacks in the slow introduction; the timpany about
everywhere; or the whirlwind-like string figures at the very end of the
final, which for me have an intensity that transforms ostensibly
ornamental music into pure expression. Apart from a more flowing second
movement, I don't think it's particularly fast, either, compared to more
traditional interpretations. The impression of grandeur is partly due
to the fact that Brüggen never rushes, all the tempi sound perfectly
settled, just "right" to me.

It may be this one recording I would use to convince someone that
Beethoven's symphonies are just different, but in no way "better" than
Haydn's greatest achievements.

[BTW, this is on the second Philips Duo of Brüggen's recordings of the
"London" symphonies and ought to be available easily.]

No. 2 in my ranking of favourite Haydn 104 recordings, by the way, is
Rosbaud's; just to demonstrate that two interpretations can be very
different and both sound incredibly "right".

Bastian

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Bastian Kubis

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.

This is a rare case where I may have a dozen or so recordings of a
Brüggen's. I love HIP sonorities in Haydn (and I realise some don't);
but the main point, for me, is that Brüggen makes this symphony sound
bigger, grander, more important than anybody else I've heard. Just
listen to the sharp attacks in the slow introduction; the timpany about
everywhere; or the whirlwind-like string figures at the very end of the
final, which for me have an intensity that transforms ostensibly
ornamental music into pure expression. Apart from a more flowing second
movement, I don't think it's particularly fast, either, compared to more
traditional interpretations. The impression of grandeur is partly due
to the fact that Brüggen never rushes, all the tempi sound perfectly
settled, just "right" to me.

Same recording, for the same reasons. I'm also keen on several others,
including Fey's (a sort of manic recreation of Harnoncourt's with a more

Post by Bastian Kubis
No. 2 in my ranking of favourite Haydn 104 recordings, by the way, is
Rosbaud's; just to demonstrate that two interpretations can be very
different and both sound incredibly "right".

Simon

[j***@aol.com]

Post by Bastian Kubis
No. 2 in my ranking of favourite Haydn 104 recordings, by the way, is
Rosbaud's; just to demonstrate that two interpretations can be very
different and both sound incredibly "right".
Bastian

Rosbaud's definitely one of my favorites, too. Not sure if I put
Brueggen ahead of him, but that's good Haydn too.

--Jeff

[Heck51]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway,"

Reiner,
Bernstein is very good, too.

[Dan Amodeo]

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. I have Fey, Mackerras, and
Fischer. Yesterday I ordered (used) Bruggen's recordings of all the Londons.

Dan

[Todd Schurk]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Szell-Cleveland.

[francis]

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Szell-Cleveland.

Todd,

My favorite is Szell's/Cleveland, also. May I assume you are
referring to the monural recording coupled with Haydn #88 on a special
edition LP underwritten by the C&O Railroad? Do you, or anyone,
happen to know if either of these wonderful recordings--if anything,
even better than the Szekk/Cleveland stereo recordings of Haydn 93-99
issued by Columbia in the 60s--have ever been issued on CD?

Question to Don Tait: do I recall that a Reiner/CSO Sym 104 being
issued on one of the WFMT-FM special edution LP?

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by francis
My favorite is Szell's/Cleveland, also. May I assume you are
referring to the monural recording coupled with Haydn #88 on a special
edition LP underwritten by the C&O Railroad? Do you, or anyone,
happen to know if either of these wonderful recordings--if anything,
even better than the Szell/Cleveland stereo recordings of Haydn 93-99
issued by Columbia in the 60s--have ever been issued on CD?

Yes, on United Archives UAR009, available in the UK, fleshed out with
the mono version of 92. I got mine as soon as it was announced.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"It may take a village to raise a child - but it only takes one idiot
to burn down the village."

[francis]

Post by Sol L. Siegel

Post by francis
My favorite is Szell's/Cleveland, also. May I assume you are
referring to the monural recording coupled with Haydn #88 on a special
edition LP underwritten by the C&O Railroad? Do you, or anyone,
happen to know if either of these wonderful recordings--if anything,
even better than the Szell/Cleveland stereo recordings of Haydn 93-99
issued by Columbia in the 60s--have ever been issued on CD?

Yes, on United Archives UAR009, available in the UK, fleshed out with
the mono version of 92. I got mine as soon as it was announced.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA

Thank you, Mr. Siegel! I just ordered the one new copy in stock at
amazon.uk--but they indicate a dozen used copies are available from
various sources. The addition of the mono of 92 is a wonderful
bonus. You also saved me a chore--was about to make a disc to digital
transfer to upload to OperaShare, which would have (unknowingly)
violated that group's rules and inevitably been inferior to a
professional remastering. Anyhow, I can't recommend enough these
recordings. For lovers of 104, I might also recommend listening
online to the broadcast of one of last year's Rochester Philharmonic
concerts--on Wednesday evening, Oct 17 at 8:00 pm eastern time. It
will be the annual appearance of guest conductor and former acting
music director Jerzy Semkow (a former Szell student, also of Kletzki
and Mavrinski). The program comprises 104 and the Tchaikovsky 4th--
vintage Semkow. The local public stations website is wxxi.org.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

It will be the annual appearance of guest conductor and former acting
music director Jerzy Semkow (a former Szell student, also of Kletzki
and Mavrinski).

Glad to see he's still around. I remember how much I enjoyed his recording
of "Boris Godunov" (with Martti Talvela) when it was first issued.

[D***@aol.com]

On Oct 10, 9:43?pm, francis <***@aol.com> wrote:

(snip)

Post by francis
Question to Don Tait: do I recall that a Reiner/CSO Sym 104 being
issued on one of the WFMT-FM special edution LP?

Hi Francis!

Yes, it was issued in a 1988 CSO fund-raising "premium" set. There
might have been a 2-LP set, but there was also a 2-CD one. The set was
poorly annotated and there are no broadcast/performance dates.
However, all came from the 1957/58 CSO season and Stephen Temmer's
broadcasts of CSO concerts. Perhaps the CSO still has CD copies for
sale. You could check their website.

The other titles in this all-Reiner/CSO set are:

Beethoven: Symphony no. 4
Berlioz: Roman Carnival Overture
Hindemith: 'Cello Concerto (Janos Starker, then the CSO's principal
'cellist)
Wagner: Tristan: Prelude and Liebestod
Wagner: Parsifal: Good Friday Spell

Talk to you soon.

Don

[francis]

Post by D***@aol.com
(snip)

Post by francis
Question to Don Tait: do I recall that a Reiner/CSO Sym 104 being
issued on one of the WFMT-FM special edution LP?

Hi Francis!
Yes, it was issued in a 1988 CSO fund-raising "premium" set. There
might have been a 2-LP set, but there was also a 2-CD one. The set was
poorly annotated and there are no broadcast/performance dates.
However, all came from the 1957/58 CSO season and Stephen Temmer's
broadcasts of CSO concerts. Perhaps the CSO still has CD copies for
sale. You could check their website.
Beethoven: Symphony no. 4
Berlioz: Roman Carnival Overture
Hindemith: 'Cello Concerto (Janos Starker, then the CSO's principal
'cellist)
Wagner: Tristan: Prelude and Liebestod
Wagner: Parsifal: Good Friday Spell
Talk to you soon.
Don

I see that the Reiner/CSO Haydn 104, coupled with the Beethoven is on
an out-of-print Arlecchino disc-which I have in my hand. Will upload
this weekend.

[Heck51]

Post by francis
I see that the Reiner/CSO Haydn 104, coupled with the Beethoven is on
an out-of-print Arlecchino disc-which I have in my hand. Will upload
this weekend.->>

MMmm!! I'd like to get my hands on that one...I have an Arlecchino CD
with the Berlioz and Wagner works, I never encountered the Haydn/LvB
on CD....

[Heck51]

Post by D***@aol.com
Beethoven: Symphony no. 4
Berlioz: Roman Carnival Overture
Hindemith: 'Cello Concerto (Janos Starker, then the CSO's principal
'cellist)
Wagner: Tristan: Prelude and Liebestod
Wagner: Parsifal: Good Friday Spell>>

yes, a friend of mine sent me tapes of this set, and some of the items
appeared on CD since then - Berlioz, Wagner.
TMK, tho the Beethoven4 and Haydn104 are NA at this time...too bad,
the're both wonderful....

[Adam M. Dubin]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:34:30 GMT, "Dan Amodeo"

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

I know I'm an outlier here: Solti/London Philharmonic (ca. mid-80s).

[j***@aol.com]

Post by ansermetniac
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:34:30 GMT, "Dan Amodeo"

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

I know I'm an outlier here: Solti/London Philharmonic (ca. mid-80s).

I haven't heard that recording but several broadcasts and his two
"Creations" all indicate to me that Solti had an affinity for Haydn in
his quirky sort of jab and hover style of phrasing. I like it.

--Jeff

[D***@aol.com]

(snip)

Post by j***@aol.com

Post by Adam M. Dubin
I know I'm an outlier here: Solti/London Philharmonic (ca. mid-80s).

I haven't heard that recording but several broadcasts and his two
"Creations" all indicate to me that Solti had an affinity for Haydn in
his quirky sort of jab and hover style of phrasing. I like it.
--Jeff

I don't think you're unusual in saying that Solti had an affinity
for Haydn's music -- I agree. I've always felt that it suited him
perfectly and he performed it superbly. There was something of an
inspired programming idea for one of Solti's CSO seasons during the
1980s: a pairing of Haydn and Bartok on many of the programs. They
were the season's two featured composers. Bartok was a given for Solti
of course, but the pairing with Haydn was brilliant. The idea was
Henry Fogel's; he was the CSO's president then.

Don Tait

[Matthew B. Tepper]

I don't think you're unusual in saying that Solti had an affinity for
Haydn's music -- I agree. I've always felt that it suited him perfectly and
he performed it superbly. There was something of an inspired programming
idea for one of Solti's CSO seasons during the 1980s: a pairing of Haydn
and Bartok on many of the programs. They were the season's two featured
composers. Bartok was a given for Solti of course, but the pairing with
Haydn was brilliant. The idea was Henry Fogel's; he was the CSO's president
then.

Here in Los Angeles, Esa-Pekka Salonen had the idea a few years ago of a
series of concerts pairing Haydn with György Ligeti.

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

I don't think you're unusual in saying that Solti had an affinity for
Haydn's music -- I agree. I've always felt that it suited him perfectly and
he performed it superbly. There was something of an inspired programming
idea for one of Solti's CSO seasons during the 1980s: a pairing of Haydn
and Bartok on many of the programs. They were the season's two featured
composers. Bartok was a given for Solti of course, but the pairing with
Haydn was brilliant. The idea was Henry Fogel's; he was the CSO's president
then.

Here in Los Angeles, Esa-Pekka Salonen had the idea a few years ago of a
series of concerts pairing Haydn with György Ligeti.

Why? What's the connection?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by D***@aol.com
I don't think you're unusual in saying that Solti had an affinity
for Haydn's music -- I agree. I've always felt that it suited him
perfectly and he performed it superbly. There was something of an
inspired programming idea for one of Solti's CSO seasons during the
1980s: a pairing of Haydn and Bartok on many of the programs. They
were the season's two featured composers. Bartok was a given for Solti
of course, but the pairing with Haydn was brilliant. The idea was
Henry Fogel's; he was the CSO's president then.

Here in Los Angeles, Esa-Pekka Salonen had the idea a few years ago of
a series of concerts pairing Haydn with György Ligeti.

Why? What's the connection?

Salonen felt that Ligeti's sense of humor was similar to Haydn's.

[Heck51]

On Oct 10, 10:33 pm, Adam M. Dubin <***@pol.net> wrote:
I know I'm an outlier here: Solti/London Philharmonic (ca. mid-80s)."

I've not heard that, but I'd like to...Solti was a very excellent
conductor of Haydn...

[D***@aol.com]

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).

Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.

I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.

Don Tait

[Todd Schurk]

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S

[D***@aol.com]

On Oct 11, 6:12?pm, Todd Schurk <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

(big edit)

Post by Todd Schurk
Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S

Todd -- thanks!!

Don T.

[francis]

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Amen to that, Todd.
PS Dobrowen was a particular favorite conductor of Rachmaninoff's--who
played the c minor and d minor under his baton several times with
several orchestras. Most notable was a 1933 performance of the d
minor with the Philadelphia--during the 5 year period of his Stokowsky
"boycott". He wrote to a third party "The orchestra (the Philadelphia
Orchestra!) played like pigs. But Dobrowen doesn't have the power to
fire them, so what could he do about it?" Other than the
accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos (those
underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore), I've never heard another
note conducted by Dobrowen. I certainly would like to hear the
recordings mentioned--the Berlioz, the Boris with Christoff (wow! his
first?) and, of course, the Haydn. Wasn't Dobrowen for a time
conductor of one of the West Coast orchestras? Seattle? The Medtner
2nd concerto is available right now over at OperaShare.

FC

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Other than the accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos
(those underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore),

## 2 and 3, anyway; #1 was conducted by George Weldon.

I've never heard another note conducted by Dobrowen.

Try Beethoven PCs ## 2, 3, and 4 with Schnabel.

[Patrick]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:50:56 -0000, "Matthew B. Tepper"

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Other than the accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos
(those underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore),

## 2 and 3, anyway; #1 was conducted by George Weldon.

I've never heard another note conducted by Dobrowen.

Try Beethoven PCs ## 2, 3, and 4 with Schnabel.

And not to mention beautiful recordings in 1953 of Scheherazade, Tsar
Saltan Suite and Coq D'or Suite, all with the Philharmonia Orchestra.
Patrick

[j***@hotmail.com]

Post by francis

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Amen to that, Todd.
PS Dobrowen was a particular favorite conductor of Rachmaninoff's--who
played the c minor and d minor under his baton several times with
several orchestras. Most notable was a 1933 performance of the d
minor with the Philadelphia--during the 5 year period of his Stokowsky
"boycott". He wrote to a third party "The orchestra (the Philadelphia
Orchestra!) played like pigs. But Dobrowen doesn't have the power to
fire them, so what could he do about it?" Other than the
accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos (those
underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore), I've never heard another
note conducted by Dobrowen. I certainly would like to hear the
recordings mentioned--the Berlioz, the Boris with Christoff (wow! his
first?) and, of course, the Haydn. Wasn't Dobrowen for a time
conductor of one of the West Coast orchestras? Seattle? The Medtner
2nd concerto is available right now over at OperaShare.
FC- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

One of Dobrowen finest recordings (1946), with Neveu and the
Philharmonia, is the Brahms Violin Concerto. It's currently available
on a Dutton CD.

Jeff Lipscomb

[J***@msn.com]

Post by j***@hotmail.com

Post by francis

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Amen to that, Todd.
PS Dobrowen was a particular favorite conductor of Rachmaninoff's--who
played the c minor and d minor under his baton several times with
several orchestras. Most notable was a 1933 performance of the d
minor with the Philadelphia--during the 5 year period of his Stokowsky
"boycott". He wrote to a third party "The orchestra (the Philadelphia
Orchestra!) played like pigs. But Dobrowen doesn't have the power to
fire them, so what could he do about it?" Other than the
accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos (those
underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore), I've never heard another
note conducted by Dobrowen. I certainly would like to hear the
recordings mentioned--the Berlioz, the Boris with Christoff (wow! his
first?) and, of course, the Haydn. Wasn't Dobrowen for a time
conductor of one of the West Coast orchestras? Seattle? The Medtner
2nd concerto is available right now over at OperaShare.
FC- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

One of Dobrowen finest recordings (1946), with Neveu and the
Philharmonia, is the Brahms Violin Concerto. It's currently available
on a Dutton CD.
Jeff Lipscomb- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Another favorite 104 is Markevitch and the Lamoureux! Hauser

[j***@aol.com]

Post by J***@msn.com

Post by j***@hotmail.com

Post by francis

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments instructive
and entertaining. Todd S- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Amen to that, Todd.
PS Dobrowen was a particular favorite conductor of Rachmaninoff's--who
played the c minor and d minor under his baton several times with
several orchestras. Most notable was a 1933 performance of the d
minor with the Philadelphia--during the 5 year period of his Stokowsky
"boycott". He wrote to a third party "The orchestra (the Philadelphia
Orchestra!) played like pigs. But Dobrowen doesn't have the power to
fire them, so what could he do about it?" Other than the
accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos (those
underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore), I've never heard another
note conducted by Dobrowen. I certainly would like to hear the
recordings mentioned--the Berlioz, the Boris with Christoff (wow! his
first?) and, of course, the Haydn. Wasn't Dobrowen for a time
conductor of one of the West Coast orchestras? Seattle? The Medtner
2nd concerto is available right now over at OperaShare.
FC- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

One of Dobrowen finest recordings (1946), with Neveu and the
Philharmonia, is the Brahms Violin Concerto. It's currently available
on a Dutton CD.
Jeff Lipscomb- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Another favorite 104 is Markevitch and the Lamoureux! Hauser

Hear! Hear! Good choice.

--Jeff

[Will Vaughan]

Post by j***@hotmail.com

Post by francis
Amen to that, Todd.
PS Dobrowen was a particular favorite conductor of Rachmaninoff's--who
played the c minor and d minor under his baton several times with
several orchestras. Most notable was a 1933 performance of the d
minor with the Philadelphia--during the 5 year period of his Stokowsky
"boycott". He wrote to a third party "The orchestra (the Philadelphia
Orchestra!) played like pigs. But Dobrowen doesn't have the power to
fire them, so what could he do about it?" Other than the
accompaniments to Medtner's recordings of his own concertos (those
underwritten by the Majharaja of Mysore), I've never heard another
note conducted by Dobrowen. I certainly would like to hear the
recordings mentioned--the Berlioz, the Boris with Christoff (wow! his
first?) and, of course, the Haydn. Wasn't Dobrowen for a time
conductor of one of the West Coast orchestras? Seattle? The Medtner
2nd concerto is available right now over at OperaShare.
FC- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

One of Dobrowen finest recordings (1946), with Neveu and the
Philharmonia, is the Brahms Violin Concerto. It's currently available
on a Dutton CD.

I'll second that recommendatio - a lovely recording by all involved.

Will

[Alan Cooper]

Post by Todd Schurk

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If
it's out of print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you
can) what you would replace it with if your dog ate your only
copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would
be interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us,
so don't hesitate to post just because you can't explain your
preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I
haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older
recordings: Issay Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C
3517/19, recorded circa 1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953,
is virtually forgotten now but he was a masterful conductor.
His most famous recording is surely the HMV LP Boris Godounov
made in Paris with Christoff around 1952. Dobrowen made a fair
number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively for HMV,
between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston
Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his
first Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104,
when given a "grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is
like a "small Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that
symphony is just like Haydn's except for the addition of one or
two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Don...long may you blather! I always find your comments
instructive and entertaining. Todd S

I'll ditto that! Don is one of my main reasons for sticking around. And back to
the topic, has anyone mentioned Salomon's transcription of Haydn 104 for flute,
pianoforte, and string quartet? It's delightful in its own right, and especially
so in the splendid performance by Florilegium on Channel Classics, c/w Wispelwey's
outstanding renditions of the two 'cello concerti. A great disc!

AC

[j***@hotmail.com]

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

Afraid I've never heard the Dobrowen or the Munch (nor, for that
matter, Edwin Fischer's 78 rpm set). I've heard the Bruggen only once,
on Public Radio, and my vague memory of it is a performance (live?)
with a rather distant recording perspective. Like many collectors,
I've been in and out of quite a few recordings (e.g., no longer own
Davis, Jochum, Krips, or Harnoncourt). The Klemperer has eluded me -
EMI needs to reissue it. Of the ones I've kept - Scherchen, Rosbaud,
Beecham, Woldike, Jones, Kuijken, and "Furtwangler" (actually Dressel
and the Munich Philharmonic) - if I could have only one, my choice
would be Rosbaud's for its superb playing and warmth of expression.

Jeff Lipscomb.

Jeff Lipscomb

[David Mendes]

.... For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa 1948 .... Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions...."

Well, as expected from me, there's the Toscanini broadcast which has
previously been noted and one that I have not seen mentioned:
It's a recording by Edwin Fischer with his Chamber Orchestra. I find
it marvelous. A friend copied it from the 78s for me. It was reissued
on cd in Japan (of course) but I understand that the sound wasn't very
good. In any event, it should be reissued. For those who are
interested, here's B.H. Haggin's review of the recording from his
"Music on Records"(NY: 1946):

"The performance by Fischer's Chamber Orchestra in Victor Set 617 is
not only superb in musical outline, warmth, spirit, force, but
enchanting in the way an ensemble performance by a small group of fine
musicians can be - in the sensitiveness and fluidity of the perfectly
co-ordinated progression, the balance of the instrumental lines, the
matching and blending of the colors and sonorities. And these give
even greater effect to the music than do the powerful phrasing, the
beautiful finish and sonority of Beecham's excellent performance with
the London Philharmonic on Columbia Set 409."

With best regards from over here,
David Mendes

[Bob Harper]

***@aol.com wrote:
(snip)

Post by D***@aol.com
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions.

Now on CD from Japan as BVCC-38424 (Vol. 2 of 'The Art of Charles Munch').

Bob Harper
I

Post by D***@aol.com
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

[J***@msn.com]

Post by D***@aol.com
(snip)

Post by D***@aol.com
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions.

Now on CD from Japan as BVCC-38424 (Vol. 2 of 'The Art of Charles Munch').
Bob Harper
I

Post by D***@aol.com
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What was Munch's 104th coupled with (I think I held a battered copy in
my hand at Princeton a while ago and sadly gave it up since the
surface looked like it was used for first base-aaarrgh!)? Hauser

[D***@aol.com]

On Oct 13, 10:17?am, ***@msn.com wrote:

(snip)

Post by J***@msn.com
What was Munch's 104th coupled with (I think I held a battered copy in
my hand at Princeton a while ago and sadly gave it up since the
surface looked like it was used for first base-aaarrgh!)? Hauser

The first LP issue of Munch's BSO Haydn 104 was by itself on a 10"
LP, LM-49. You're undoubtedly referring to the later 12" LPs because
they had couplings: they were LM-9034 and, for a while after 1956,
LVT-1044 in the special-order "Vault Treasures" series. In both cases
the coupling was Koussevitzky's 1946 BSO recording of Haydn's Surprise
Symphony. Sorry that the copy you held in your hand was a wreck! Aargh
indeed.

Don Tait

[Bob Harper]

Post by J***@msn.com

Post by D***@aol.com
(snip)

Post by D***@aol.com
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions.

Now on CD from Japan as BVCC-38424 (Vol. 2 of 'The Art of Charles Munch').
Bob Harper
I

Post by D***@aol.com
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What was Munch's 104th coupled with (I think I held a battered copy in
my hand at Princeton a while ago and sadly gave it up since the
surface looked like it was used for first base-aaarrgh!)? Hauser

On the Japanese CD it's coupled with 103 and the Hamilton Harty Suite
from Handel's Water Music. Not sure if that's what you meant, or if you
were asking about the original LP.

Bob Harper

[t***@yahoo.com]

Far too many to list.But as for Haydn in general,I like Scherchen on
the mono Westminsters (I will forever regret not getting those two
complete sets of bound volumes I saw at a Salvation Army,and a DAV
store,back in 1990,when I was just getting into classical music.)

I was listening to some of these off the single records the other
day,as well as three ("Military","Drumroll",and one other.),by a much
younger Solti,and the LPO,on London from 1949-53. Szell(His mono stuff
is killer,too.),Koussevitzsky,and Toscanini,have already been
mentioned,but don't forget Furtwangler and The BPO,Barbirolli (Both on
EMI,and Pye/Nixa/ Vanguard.)The 60s Vanguards being freshest in my
memory on Barbiroli.Even some of the early Bernstein/NYPOs from the
late 50s/early 60s are good,too.(I have some of the 6-eye stereos on
him,but i don't think I have any Haydn.

Somewhere I have an old Coulmbia set from the 20s or 30s of Harty
conducting a Haydn.Haven't pulled it out in years.

Beecham.Can't go wrong with Beecham.

Krips is good,too,but I actually prefer his mono Decca/London stuff
from the late 40s/early 50s,to his stereo recordings.Even the Reader's
Digest/Chesky,as great as it is.As is Artur Rodzinski and the early
stereo Westminsters.LSO ? LPO ? Can't recall off hand.

But as I said,far too many to list.

Roger

[Heck51]

On Oct 11, 6:31 pm, ***@aol.com wrote: Robert Marsh might
have been correct in his first

Post by D***@aol.com
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.>>

Yes, Haydn 104 is a "big" symphony for its time...certainly equal to
the late Mozart or even Beethoven 1 or 2...

[Patrick]

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Dan Amodeo
What is your favorite recording of Haydn's symphony 104? If it's out of
print, tell me anyway, but also tell me (if you can) what you would replace
it with if your dog ate your only copy.
If you can tell me anything about why you like it, that would be
interesting, but I know how hard that is for most of us, so don't hesitate
to post just because you can't explain your preference.
Dan Amodeo

Some wrote about Brueggen, and I can believe it although I haven't
heard it. I'd like to. For myself, citing some older recordings: Issay
Dobrowen/Philharmonia Orchestra, HMV (78s) C 3517/19, recorded circa
1948. Dobrowen, who died young in 1953, is virtually forgotten now but
he was a masterful conductor. His most famous recording is surely the
HMV LP Boris Godounov made in Paris with Christoff around 1952.
Dobrowen made a fair number of recordings for EMI, almost exclusively
for HMV, between about 1947 and his death. The Haydn 104 is stunning
(as are Berlioz' Roman Carnival Overture and other titles).
Another great 104, although old: Munch and the Boston Symphony on
RCA Victor. Circa 1950, with various 78, 45, and LP editions. I
mention it because Robert Marsh might have been correct in his first
Toscanini book (1955) when he wrote that Haydn's 104, when given a
"grand and powerful" performance like Munch's, is like a "small
Eroica" because Beethoven's orchestra for that symphony is just like
Haydn's except for the addition of one or two horn players.
I've blathered too long. A great topic. Thanks.
Don Tait

I agree with you completely about Dobrowen. I have a number of his
recordings, of which I uploaded in the binary news groups a few months
ago. Is the Haydn 104 available or can it be downloaded somewhere? I
was not aware he recorded it and would love to hear it.
Patrick