Discussion:
Question about 78 rpm dating (Victor)
(too old to reply)
Gregorius
2009-05-26 21:19:14 UTC
Permalink
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.

So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
Andrew Rose
2009-05-26 21:38:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
I'm not sure about dating via labels, but there are a number of good
guides which would allow dating by both catalogue number and - usually
more accurately - matrix number. If you'd like to post a few of both I'm
sure someone can come up with at the very least some pretty good
approximate dates for you.
--
Andrew Rose

Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
recordings..." (Gramophone)

www.pristineclassical.com
Roger Kulp
2009-05-27 04:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Rose
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
I'm not sure about dating via labels, but there are a number of good
guides which would allow dating by both catalogue number and - usually
more accurately - matrix number. If you'd like to post a few of both I'm
sure someone can come up with at the very least some pretty good
approximate dates for you.
--
Andrew Rose
Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
recordings..." (Gramophone)
www.pristineclassical.com
I think the point you want to make,is that Victor,like many
labels,American Columbia,and Deusche Grammophon kept titles in their
catalog for years,or even decades during the entire electrical 78
era.I include DGG,because a few months ago,I bought another box of 78s
at the flea market.These included two DGG 78s.These were post war
post reparation pressings on the tulip label,dated (?)1947-8.One is
the "Lohengrin" prelude,by Furtwangler and The BPO.DGG 95408. This,of
course.has a date stamped in the trail off area of 1930.The license
number on the label starts in 48.I also have a tulip pressing 78 of
the waltz from ACT III of "Der Rosenkavelier",by Richard Strauss and
the Bayersches Staatorchester DGG 67729.Date in trail off area is
1941.Date on license,is12.2.47.

Obviously both came out on "dog" labels.

As for Victor,I have:

A couple of scroll sets where there are some records in the set have
"Victor" labels and some have "Victrola" labels in the same album.

I have records with the "large" label with three lines of text,at the
bottom,that have patent numbers (Post scroll labels 1930s.) that are
later pressings of titles that first came out on scroll labels,

Same with "large" and "small" post-scroll Victor labels.RCA Victor
obviously used up all of their old lasbels,leaving some as
transitionary pressings.Some larger labels did this well into the 45/
Lp era.I have a Capitol Starline George Harrison 45,that is not in any
book,that has a "target" logo on one side,and an oval logo on the
other.

I have at least one 1940s set that has "VIctor",and "RCA Victor"
labels in the same set.

I have at least one Victor classical title blue scroll (55290,Ganz.)
label.I am not aware of these titles coming out on later labels.

I have seen a couple of Victor popular titles with a scroll and a
"batwing" label on either side of the record.

There are variations with Columbia,too but not as many as with
Victor..

Does the post Viva-Tonal label of the 30s,with the note inside a
circle have a name ?

Roger
D***@aol.com
2009-05-26 22:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
Hello. A fascinating post. May I, as a collector and (incidentally)
Victor nut, respond?

World War II brought several changes to the record business,
including Victor. First, they switched from the bright gold labels to
what you beautifully call "gold-washed" ones around 1942 or so.
(Sometimes to me it has even looked like a kind of silver.) Then they
started making 78s out of "re-grind": 78s turned back in, melted down,
and pressed again. Victor wartime 78s of that type can be identified
not only by their "gold-washed" or rather faint silver label printing
but by their thicknesses, which tended to be thinner than Victor 78s
from pre-1942. Thin. And "regrind" 78s can be recognized by their
slightly lumpy surfaces.

Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.

Great stuff. I love this. I hope you won't be annoyed with me for
this post, but thanks! Keep talking if you want.

Don Tait
Gregorius
2009-05-27 00:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
  Hello. A fascinating post. May I, as a collector and (incidentally)
Victor nut, respond?
  World War II brought several changes to the record business,
including Victor. First, they switched from the bright gold labels to
what you beautifully call "gold-washed" ones around 1942 or so.
(Sometimes to me it has even looked like a kind of silver.) Then they
started making 78s out of "re-grind": 78s turned back in, melted down,
and pressed again. Victor wartime 78s of that type can be identified
not only by their "gold-washed" or rather faint silver label printing
but by their thicknesses, which tended to be thinner than Victor 78s
from pre-1942. Thin. And "regrind" 78s can be recognized by their
slightly lumpy surfaces.
  Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
  Great stuff. I love this. I hope you won't be annoyed with me for
this post, but thanks! Keep talking if you want.
  Don Tait
Thanks Don. Just what I was looking for! While AR's answer would help
with finding recording dates (and thanks for your reply, Andrew), what
I was looking more for was dating the actual record *pressing*, since
wartime pressings can be pretty noisy and both wartime and post-war
records didn't seem to wear as well either. Victor Talking Machine
Orthophonics were pretty noisy too because Victor was trying to
eliminate some of its unsellable acoustic inventory by turning it into
regrind to add to new pressings. Non-shellac materials like vinyl also
seem to have been added to the mix and probably these didn't respond
well to the older varieties of phonograph machines, with their heavier
pickups, and really needed more modern cartridges and needles. Victor
added to the confusion by mixing and matching sets to empty inventory,
as well as consumers replacing broken records with newer pressings.

The Post-War period gets confusing as well. I think there actually
were silver-printed record labels as well as white, but these came out
after the introduction of tape recordings and the LP or 45 versions
(since Victor limited takes to 4 minutes for some time) of these are
preferable.

Can anyone supply a similar chronology for Columbia? HMV?
harpsichordian
2009-05-27 00:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
Can anyone supply a similar chronology for Columbia? HMV?
A pretty comprehensive HMV chronology, albeit one applying
specifically to the popular 10" B series, can be found here:

http://www.normanfield.com/hmv.htm

As for US Columbia, I'll come up with something in a separate post.

Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
harpsichordian
2009-05-27 01:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
Can anyone supply a similar chronology for Columbia?
Much of the following is borrowed from "Note the Notes" by Mike
Sherman and Kurt Nauck:

the "CBS" or "Microphone" label (i.e., where the "Magic Notes" logo
and a CBS microphone each appear in its own circle, with the two
circles joined) started c. 1939, the earliest issues having patent
info along the lower rim, then with three lines of patent info
underneath the "COLUMBIA" brand name; printing was gold. The word
"MASTERWORKS" was added (on classical issues) beneath "COLUMBIA" c.
1941, and the three patent lines were now beneath "MASTERWORKS".
During the war the gold printing changed to silver. Around 1945 the
three lines of patents was reduced to two. These pressings are
usually fairly decent. By the end of '47 the actual patent number
(1,702,564) was no longer listed in those two lines. These latest
pressings are generally pretty terrible.

Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
Roger Kulp
2009-05-27 04:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
  Hello. A fascinating post. May I, as a collector and (incidentally)
Victor nut, respond?
  World War II brought several changes to the record business,
including Victor. First, they switched from the bright gold labels to
what you beautifully call "gold-washed" ones around 1942 or so.
(Sometimes to me it has even looked like a kind of silver.) Then they
started making 78s out of "re-grind": 78s turned back in, melted down,
and pressed again. Victor wartime 78s of that type can be identified
not only by their "gold-washed" or rather faint silver label printing
but by their thicknesses, which tended to be thinner than Victor 78s
from pre-1942. Thin. And "regrind" 78s can be recognized by their
slightly lumpy surfaces.
  Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
  Great stuff. I love this. I hope you won't be annoyed with me for
this post, but thanks! Keep talking if you want.
  Don Tait
Thanks Don. Just what I was looking for! While AR's answer would help
with finding recording dates (and thanks for your reply, Andrew), what
I was looking more for was dating the actual record *pressing*, since
wartime pressings can be pretty noisy and both wartime and post-war
records didn't seem to wear as well either. Victor Talking Machine
Orthophonics were pretty noisy too because Victor was trying to
eliminate some of its unsellable acoustic inventory by turning it into
regrind to add to new pressings. Non-shellac materials like vinyl also
seem to have been added to the mix and probably these didn't respond
well to the older varieties of phonograph machines, with their heavier
pickups, and really needed more modern cartridges and needles. Victor
added to the confusion by mixing and matching sets to empty inventory,
as well as consumers replacing broken records with newer pressings.
The Post-War period gets confusing as well. I think there actually
were silver-printed record labels as well as white, but these came out
after the introduction of tape recordings and the LP or 45 versions
(since Victor limited takes to 4 minutes for some time) of these are
preferable.
Can anyone supply a similar chronology for Columbia? HMV?
The Collector’s Guide to Gramophone Company Record Labels 1898 - 1925
Howard Friedman
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Friedman/page1.htm

This is basically a book in HTML.It took me the better part of a day
to read,and absorb.I forget how many pages there are,sometimes you
have to type in the page number in the navigation bar,as the "Next
page" links do not always work.


Roger
Gregorius
2009-05-27 05:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Kulp
Post by Gregorius
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
  Hello. A fascinating post. May I, as a collector and (incidentally)
Victor nut, respond?
  World War II brought several changes to the record business,
including Victor. First, they switched from the bright gold labels to
what you beautifully call "gold-washed" ones around 1942 or so.
(Sometimes to me it has even looked like a kind of silver.) Then they
started making 78s out of "re-grind": 78s turned back in, melted down,
and pressed again. Victor wartime 78s of that type can be identified
not only by their "gold-washed" or rather faint silver label printing
but by their thicknesses, which tended to be thinner than Victor 78s
from pre-1942. Thin. And "regrind" 78s can be recognized by their
slightly lumpy surfaces.
  Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
  Great stuff. I love this. I hope you won't be annoyed with me for
this post, but thanks! Keep talking if you want.
  Don Tait
Thanks Don. Just what I was looking for! While AR's answer would help
with finding recording dates (and thanks for your reply, Andrew), what
I was looking more for was dating the actual record *pressing*, since
wartime pressings can be pretty noisy and both wartime and post-war
records didn't seem to wear as well either. Victor Talking Machine
Orthophonics were pretty noisy too because Victor was trying to
eliminate some of its unsellable acoustic inventory by turning it into
regrind to add to new pressings. Non-shellac materials like vinyl also
seem to have been added to the mix and probably these didn't respond
well to the older varieties of phonograph machines, with their heavier
pickups, and really needed more modern cartridges and needles. Victor
added to the confusion by mixing and matching sets to empty inventory,
as well as consumers replacing broken records with newer pressings.
The Post-War period gets confusing as well. I think there actually
were silver-printed record labels as well as white, but these came out
after the introduction of tape recordings and the LP or 45 versions
(since Victor limited takes to 4 minutes for some time) of these are
preferable.
Can anyone supply a similar chronology for Columbia? HMV?
The Collector’s Guide to Gramophone Company Record Labels 1898 - 1925
Howard Friedmanhttp://www.musicweb-international.com/Friedman/page1.htm
This is basically a book in HTML.It took me the better part of a day
to read,and absorb.I forget how many pages there are,sometimes you
have to type in the page number in the navigation bar,as the "Next
page" links do not  always work.
                                                           Roger
Now THAT is worthy of a doctoral dissertation! A little too detailed
perhaps for selling your records on eBay, but wonderful to have for
your own research!
harpsichordian
2009-05-27 00:34:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@aol.com
Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
Don's right about everything except, possibly, the date of abandoning
the "lyre" cover. I think it was probably closer to 1940. I have a
copy of M-661, the Dvorak Sextet by the Budapest Quartet et al, a 1940
release, which has a "lyre" cover.

It should be noted that there were two distinct styles of Victor
circle labels, the earlier one which succeeded the Scroll about 1937
(where the "RCA Manufacturing Co., Inc." is credited at the bottom rim
of the label) and the later one, which took over about 1943/44, well
into the wartime shellac period. The later circle label is identical
to the "RCA Victor" one except the brand name is simply "Victor", and
along the bottom rim the credit is to "RCA Victor Division of the
Radio Corporation of America" with the RCA monogram in 6 o'clock
position (this latter detail is missing from the earlier circle
labels). The brand name became "RCA Victor" sometime in 1946.

I agree wholeheartedly with Don - great stuff!

Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
Gregorius
2009-05-27 04:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by harpsichordian
  Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
Don's right about everything except, possibly, the date of abandoning
the "lyre" cover.  I think it was probably closer to 1940.  I have a
copy of M-661, the Dvorak Sextet by the Budapest Quartet et al, a 1940
release, which has a "lyre" cover.
It should be noted that there were two distinct styles of Victor
circle labels, the earlier one which succeeded the Scroll about 1937
(where the "RCA Manufacturing Co., Inc." is credited at the bottom rim
of the label) and the later one, which took over about 1943/44, well
into the wartime shellac period.  The later circle label is identical
to the "RCA Victor" one except the brand name is simply "Victor", and
along the bottom rim the credit is to "RCA Victor Division of the
Radio Corporation of America" with the RCA monogram in 6 o'clock
position (this latter detail is missing from the earlier circle
labels).  The brand name became "RCA Victor" sometime in 1946.
I agree wholeheartedly with Don - great stuff!
Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
Wow, great info. Just to complete the chronology for everyone, at the
beginning of the electrical era, the very earliest electricals
appeared under the Batwing style label, generally associated with the
later acoustics. By the end of 1925, the label switched to the Scroll
style, credited at the bottom to Victor Talking Machine. At the very
beginning of the RCA era, Victrola labels were used until about 31/32.
Records produced after the buyout had Victrola records credited at the
bottom to the Radio-Victor Division of the Radio Corporation of
America during 29/30 and during 31/32, Victrola records were credited
to RCA Victor. In 1932, the brand name was changed from Victrola to
Victor and shellac quality became very high. The highest quality were
the Z pressings which can be found from the Victrola/RCA Victor
period, throughout the Victor scrolls, disappearing again during the
early circle label period.
David Weiner
2009-05-27 19:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by harpsichordian
It should be noted that there were two distinct styles of Victor
circle labels, the earlier one which succeeded the Scroll about 1937
(where the "RCA Manufacturing Co., Inc." is credited at the bottom rim
of the label) and the later one, which took over about 1943/44, well
into the wartime shellac period. The later circle label is identical
to the "RCA Victor" one except the brand name is simply "Victor", and
along the bottom rim the credit is to "RCA Victor Division of the
Radio Corporation of America" with the RCA monogram in 6 o'clock
position (this latter detail is missing from the earlier circle
labels). The brand name became "RCA Victor" sometime in 1946.
I agree wholeheartedly with Don - great stuff!
Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
The Scroll label was changed to the round gold design in July 1937.
The gold print on the round label was changed to silver in mid-1941.
And "Victor" changed to "RCA Victor" on the labels in late 1945.

Dave Weiner
Roger Kulp
2009-05-27 04:17:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
  Hello. A fascinating post. May I, as a collector and (incidentally)
Victor nut, respond?
  World War II brought several changes to the record business,
including Victor. First, they switched from the bright gold labels to
what you beautifully call "gold-washed" ones around 1942 or so.
(Sometimes to me it has even looked like a kind of silver.) Then they
started making 78s out of "re-grind": 78s turned back in, melted down,
and pressed again. Victor wartime 78s of that type can be identified
not only by their "gold-washed" or rather faint silver label printing
but by their thicknesses, which tended to be thinner than Victor 78s
from pre-1942. Thin. And "regrind" 78s can be recognized by their
slightly lumpy surfaces.
  Regarding the albums: the "lyre" album cover style seems to have
been abandoned around 1936. The later embossed (raised parts, et
cetera) cover style seems to have been introduced at about that time
and abandoned around 1941/2, perhaps because of wartime restrictions.
During the war it seems to have become a flat cover with printing; I
have a few of such. The colored album covers seem to have appeared in
1945.
  Great stuff. I love this. I hope you won't be annoyed with me for
this post, but thanks! Keep talking if you want.
  Don Tait
Wiki Answers


What was the shellac from 78 records used for during World War 2?
In: World War 2 [Edit categories]
[Edit]

Answer

the shellac was used as paint for windows during a blackout so light
could not be seen thru.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_shellac_from_78_records_used_for_during_World_War_2

Is this an urban legend ?


Roger
Allen
2009-05-28 00:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregorius
At the risk of asking something vaguely ON topic, I've been going
through my classical 78 collection for de-accessionable items, and
I've come up with a quandary--how do you tell "wartime" 78s? Keeping
it to Victor, obviously Victrola Scrolls (Orthophonic) are pre-32,
Victor Scrolls are pre-war and RCA Victor circle labels are post-war,
but then you have the Victor circle labels in between. I thought a
reliable indicator was that the bright gold label printing would be
pre-war and the duller gold "washed" printing would be wartime, but
when I started comparing them to album styles, it got confusing
because the bright gold labels were not only in the "lyre" albums
generally associated with late Scrolls, but also in the later embossed-
cardboard style albums.
So, the question is actually several: When did Victor switch from the
bright gold labels to the gold-washed ones? And when did the album
style change from the lyre style to the embossed style? A side
question would be, although the color-printed albums are all wartime
or later, exactly when DID Victor start producing them?
A historic note about 78s-- When I first started buying records (11
years old in 1940) a 12" 78 was, generally, $1 US and the minimum wage
was $.35 per hour. So for 3 hours and 20 minutes of working at the
minimum wage you could buy 8 minutes of music. Makes CDs look like a
bargain. Works that could be crammed into 8 minutes, with or without
editing, were very popular. I was thinking about this today when I heard
Thomas' overture to Mignon on the radio and recalling how recordings of
overtures were very popular back then--and seldom heard today.
Allen

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