Discussion:
What's the best Prokofiev 5th Symphony?
(too old to reply)
M***@westinghouse.com
2005-11-16 17:52:21 UTC
Permalink
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Vaneyes
2005-11-16 18:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Nope, still BPO/HvK.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=100960

Regards
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-16 18:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Agreed.

Heard him do it in Paris in the late 1960s. That and the Mozart Triple
concerto with Eschenbach and Frantz and himself.

Paid a fortune for the ticket - for me, at the time, that is.

After the Prokofiev, Karajan apparently had a plane to catch. After two
curtain calls, he swooshed the entire BPO off the stage with a sweep of
his arm and disappeared.

Very dramatic. But the whole concert gave short shrift.

The recording is, however, still the best ever. And I don't say that
often about anything.

TD
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-11-16 20:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vaneyes
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Nope, still BPO/HvK.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=100960
I've joined the Levine/Chicago crowd, at least for a modern-era recording.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
j***@aol.com
2005-11-16 20:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Vaneyes
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Nope, still BPO/HvK.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=100960
I've joined the Levine/Chicago crowd, at least for a modern-era recording.
I have, too, though Dutoit and Levi run it close enough, actually, and
Muti was not half bad, either. For an overall favorite, I guess I would
name some combination of the Levine, Dutoit, Reiner, Koussevitzky,
Horenstein, Mravinsky, Mitropoulos, Celibidache, Szell, and Karajan
performances, "live" and otherwise, that are on various labels. To name
just one among these fabulous contenders would be to slight the
enduring quality of the music itself.

Despite all that, I wish Ancerl had recorded it too.

--Jeff
Todd Schurk
2005-11-16 20:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Vaneyes
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Nope, still BPO/HvK.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=100960
I've joined the Levine/Chicago crowd, at least for a modern-era recording.
I have, too, though Dutoit and Levi run it close enough, actually, and
Muti was not half bad, either. For an overall favorite, I guess I would
name some combination of the Levine, Dutoit, Reiner, Koussevitzky,
Horenstein, Mravinsky, Mitropoulos, Celibidache, Szell, and Karajan
performances, "live" and otherwise, that are on various labels. To name
just one among these fabulous contenders would be to slight the
enduring quality of the music itself.
Despite all that, I wish Ancerl had recorded it too.
--Jeff
I'll toss in Maazel/Cleveland...love the low brass in that
recording...and it's Maazel in unfussy mode.
Kalman Rubinson
2005-11-16 21:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
I'll toss in Maazel/Cleveland...love the low brass in that
recording...and it's Maazel in unfussy mode.
Yes. Very powerful.

Kal
Paul Goldstein
2005-11-16 21:49:09 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Todd Schurk
says...
Post by Todd Schurk
I'll toss in Maazel/Cleveland...love the low brass in that
recording...and it's Maazel in unfussy mode.
Good call. Maazel excells in Prokofiev.

Re HvK - that's Prokofiev Lite. Some people also want Rite of Spring Lite, and
HvK is excellent for that too.
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-17 05:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
says...
Post by Todd Schurk
I'll toss in Maazel/Cleveland...love the low brass in that
recording...and it's Maazel in unfussy mode.
Good call. Maazel excells in Prokofiev.
Re HvK - that's Prokofiev Lite. Some people also want Rite of Spring Lite, and
HvK is excellent for that too.
That sounds interesting. I heard an excellent performance of Prokofiev
5 under Maazel in Berlin (with the BP) a long time ago. I have never
heard his Cleveland recording though. Can't agree about the HvK
recordings being "lite". Whatever they are, good or bad, they are
definitely not "lite". His later Sacre recording has tremendous impact
and weight. I have never heard the earlier one (the one Stravinsky
criticized, though not as harshly as the usually out-of-context quotes
suggest) though. His Prokofiev 5 also has a lot of power and substance.
OhBoy
2005-11-16 20:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
Raymond Hall
2005-11-16 21:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
Absolutely unbelievable to me, that Szell's version is mentioned here as a
great recording. Szell is wonderful is some repertoire, and his coupling of
the Bartok CfO (even though cut), has a certain charm. But the Prokofiev
!!!!! What a dud.

Previn EMI, coupled to the 7th, is light years better. Not merely the
performance, but the cymbal crashes at the end of the first movement
actually have the impact it should have. Sadly missing in the totally damp
squib of an effort by Szell.

Failing Previn, then HvK or Kuchar.

Avoid Jarvi also (notwithstanding that the rest of his Prokofiev cycle is
really excellent), but even his dullish 5th shades Szell's.

Ray H
Taree
j***@aol.com
2005-11-16 21:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
Absolutely unbelievable to me, that Szell's version is mentioned here as a
great recording. Szell is wonderful is some repertoire, and his coupling of
the Bartok CfO (even though cut), has a certain charm. But the Prokofiev
!!!!! What a dud.
Especially unbelievable since you dissed it so recently! :-)

...
Post by Raymond Hall
Failing Previn, then HvK or Kuchar.
I'm cautious about Kuchar--normally a quiet favorite of mine--because
his Symphony No. 1 is so darn slow. Is the 5th similar?

--Jeff
Raymond Hall
2005-11-16 21:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I'm cautious about Kuchar--normally a quiet favorite of mine--because
his Symphony No. 1 is so darn slow. Is the 5th similar?
Kuchar's 1st is definitely slower than most, but it works to these ears, and
it is good to hear an almost pop favourite taken differently. However
Kuchar's tempi are fairly normal for the other symphonies. What I like about
Kuchar's set, is not only the fact that he uses a Ukrainian orchestra for
Prok, but that the low brass is wonderfully caught by the engineers. The 4th
and especially the 6th, show the low brass off to wonderful effect.

Ray H
Taree
Todd Schurk
2005-11-16 22:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
Absolutely unbelievable to me, that Szell's version is mentioned here as a
great recording. Szell is wonderful is some repertoire, and his coupling of
the Bartok CfO (even though cut), has a certain charm. But the Prokofiev
!!!!! What a dud.
Previn EMI, coupled to the 7th, is light years better. Not merely the
performance, but the cymbal crashes at the end of the first movement
actually have the impact it should have. Sadly missing in the totally damp
squib of an effort by Szell.
The Szell is very fine indeed. He is swift(no faster than Jansons
though) and sees the work as a "classical" symphony which I find
refreshing-too often it sounds like Shostakovich-lite...the Orchestra
is terrific(as usual) and in the Sony/Masterworks remastering the sound
is quite good. Very incisive,balanced playing,the most wonderful wind
solos(Alfred Genovese's oboe is worth the price of the disc)...and a
scintillating final coda to the 4th movement-like a swiss watch,very
exciting to hear EVERYTHING that is going on there. "damp squib"? No
way.
Post by Raymond Hall
Failing Previn, then HvK or Kuchar.
Avoid Jarvi also (notwithstanding that the rest of his Prokofiev cycle is
really excellent), but even his dullish 5th shades Szell's.
Ray H
Taree
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
2005-11-17 00:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
The Szell is very fine indeed. He is swift(no faster than Jansons
though) and sees the work as a "classical" symphony which I find
refreshing-too often it sounds like Shostakovich-lite...the Orchestra
is terrific(as usual) and in the Sony/Masterworks remastering the sound
is quite good. Very incisive,balanced playing,the most wonderful wind
solos(Alfred Genovese's oboe is worth the price of the disc)...and a
scintillating final coda to the 4th movement-like a swiss watch,very
exciting to hear EVERYTHING that is going on there. "damp squib"? No
way.
Not my top favorite version, but yes, agree that Szell's is very fine.
First & 3rd movements a shade too fast IMO, but plenty energy in the scherzo
& finale.

Might mention that if you want to hear **everything** in Prokofiev's
marvelously insane mechanistic finale coda - especially right before the end
where briefly only the string solos are at work - check out Baudo/Czech
Philharmonic!

Random thought - the only Szell performance I would consider a "damp squib'
or "dud" is his suprisingly listless and unsympathetic Janacek
"Sinfonietta."

- Russ (not Martha)
Richard S. Sandmeyer
2005-11-17 03:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
Post by Todd Schurk
The Szell is very fine indeed. He is swift(no faster than Jansons
though) and sees the work as a "classical" symphony which I find
refreshing-too often it sounds like Shostakovich-lite...the Orchestra
is terrific(as usual) and in the Sony/Masterworks remastering the sound
is quite good. Very incisive,balanced playing,the most wonderful wind
solos(Alfred Genovese's oboe is worth the price of the disc)...and a
scintillating final coda to the 4th movement-like a swiss watch,very
exciting to hear EVERYTHING that is going on there. "damp squib"? No
way.
Not my top favorite version, but yes, agree that Szell's is very fine.
First & 3rd movements a shade too fast IMO, but plenty energy in the scherzo
& finale.
Might mention that if you want to hear **everything** in Prokofiev's
marvelously insane mechanistic finale coda - especially right before the end
where briefly only the string solos are at work - check out Baudo/Czech
Philharmonic!
Random thought - the only Szell performance I would consider a "damp squib'
or "dud" is his suprisingly listless and unsympathetic Janacek
"Sinfonietta."
- Russ (not Martha)
I would put the Szell, Maazel, Karajan, and Kuchar on my top tier. The
Reiner is also good but is mono and is only available as part of a 12 CD
CSO 100th anniversary set. If one can tolerate the sound of a
historical recording, the Koussevitzky/BSO on Dutton is worth a hearing
(and it's coupled with the composer's own recording of his 3rd Piano
Concerto).

I've also heard the Ashkenazy, Ansermet, Rostropovich, and Jarvi
recordings of the 5th. IMNSHO, these four are a step below the best.
Actually, the Ashkenazy may be two steps below.

I haven't heard the Jansons or the Baudo, but I'll have to give them a
listen if given the opportunity.
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Allen
2005-11-17 16:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Richard S. Sandmeyer wrote:

<snip>
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
I would put the Szell, Maazel, Karajan, and Kuchar on my top tier. The
Reiner is also good but is mono and is only available as part of a 12 CD
CSO 100th anniversary set. If one can tolerate the sound of a
historical recording, the Koussevitzky/BSO on Dutton is worth a hearing
(and it's coupled with the composer's own recording of his 3rd Piano
Concerto).
<snip>

After listening, over the years, to a goodly number of recordings of the
Fifth, I chose Karajan and Kuchar as my favorites. I was rather
surprised about that, as I'm hardly a fan of Karajan in general and I
expected the Kuchar to be more in the nature of a run-through. There are
many recordings, the details of which I have long forgotten, in which
some movements would be very well done, but at least one movement would
fail.
Allen

PS: Happy to find someone else who appreciates the Kuchar.
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-16 23:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
Absolutely unbelievable to me, that Szell's version is mentioned here
as a great recording. Szell is wonderful is some repertoire, and his
coupling of the Bartok CfO (even though cut), has a certain charm. But
the Prokofiev !!!!! What a dud.
Previn EMI, coupled to the 7th, is light years better. Not merely the
performance, but the cymbal crashes at the end of the first movement
actually have the impact it should have. Sadly missing in the totally
damp squib of an effort by Szell.
Failing Previn, then HvK or Kuchar.
Avoid Jarvi also (notwithstanding that the rest of his Prokofiev cycle
is really excellent), but even his dullish 5th shades Szell's.
Ray H
Taree
Actually, the Bartok is the dud.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-17 00:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Only because it was cut.

TD
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-17 03:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
Yes. He coulda been a contenda.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-17 19:54:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).

Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Todd Schurk
2005-11-17 20:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).
Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Of course Bartok himself changed the ending after the first
performances.
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-17 22:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).
Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Of course Bartok himself changed the ending after the first
performances.
It's OK if Bartok does it. Have you heard the Szell recording? He
inserts a few 2 bar repeats and then clips the ending. He doesn't even
use Bartok's original. I find it rather arrogant that he thought he
could improve upon Bartok's work.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Todd Schurk
2005-11-17 23:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).
Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Of course Bartok himself changed the ending after the first
performances.
It's OK if Bartok does it. Have you heard the Szell recording? He
inserts a few 2 bar repeats and then clips the ending. He doesn't even
use Bartok's original. I find it rather arrogant that he thought he
could improve upon Bartok's work.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
I own it & I listen to it. I don't like the cut,though it bothers me
less than it used to. Szell,I think was arrogant in making the
cut,,,and it really does upset the dramatic scenario that the missing
little "mysterious" section sets up-so i'm rather surprised by this
seeming lapse of good judgement by a conductor that usually had very
good judgement indeed.And,come to think of it...Szell makes a cut in
the finale of the "live" Tchaikovsky 5th contained in the GCOTC
set-that he didn't make in the Cleveland/Sony version. Inconsistant too!
j***@aol.com
2005-11-17 23:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).
Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Of course Bartok himself changed the ending after the first
performances.
It's OK if Bartok does it. Have you heard the Szell recording? He
inserts a few 2 bar repeats and then clips the ending. He doesn't even
use Bartok's original. I find it rather arrogant that he thought he
could improve upon Bartok's work.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
I own it & I listen to it. I don't like the cut,though it bothers me
less than it used to. Szell,I think was arrogant in making the
cut,,,and it really does upset the dramatic scenario that the missing
little "mysterious" section sets up-so i'm rather surprised by this
seeming lapse of good judgement by a conductor that usually had very
good judgement indeed.And,come to think of it...Szell makes a cut in
the finale of the "live" Tchaikovsky 5th contained in the GCOTC
set-that he didn't make in the Cleveland/Sony version. Inconsistant too!
Plus he was an egghead. The rap sheet on Szell is long, indeed!

--Jeff
Lawrence Chalmers
2005-11-18 00:39:49 UTC
Permalink
I like being able to hear te piano part in much of Prokofiev. There are
a enough good renditions of the P5 and P7 Symphonies and one most recent
experiences of both have been with Gunter Wand and the BRSO on Profil.
Kuchar lets you hear the piano in both. Once you know there is a piano
in the orchestral fabric, being able to hear it readily is a plus. When
you have afterward strain your ears for it, it becomes IMO annoying.
Yes Levine and the CSO rank among my favorites, too.
Todd Schurk
2005-11-18 00:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Chalmers
I like being able to hear te piano part in much of Prokofiev. There are
a enough good renditions of the P5 and P7 Symphonies and one most recent
experiences of both have been with Gunter Wand and the BRSO on Profil.
Kuchar lets you hear the piano in both. Once you know there is a piano
in the orchestral fabric, being able to hear it readily is a plus. When
you have afterward strain your ears for it, it becomes IMO annoying.
Yes Levine and the CSO rank among my favorites, too.
Do you mean Klaus Tennstedt & the BRSO on Profil?
Lawrence Chalmers
2005-11-18 14:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Er, I meant Klaus Tennstedt/BRSO on Profil.
Sorry for the memory slip - thanks for letting me know.
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-18 01:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Chalmers
I like being able to hear te piano part in much of Prokofiev. There are
a enough good renditions of the P5 and P7 Symphonies and one most recent
experiences of both have been with Gunter Wand and the BRSO on Profil.
Kuchar lets you hear the piano in both. Once you know there is a piano
in the orchestral fabric, being able to hear it readily is a plus. When
you have afterward strain your ears for it, it becomes IMO annoying.
Yes Levine and the CSO rank among my favorites, too.
You can hear the piano very well in Ozawa's recording. Which is among
the better recordings of the piece, I think. Not being an Ozawa fan at
all - in fact, I have very few of his recordings and do not currently
plan to buy any others - I just listened to it because the local
library has it.
I have to say that while it is not my ideal version either, I think it
is much better - and so is the cycle as a whole - than is often said.
The playing is extremely good, not just in the sense of technical
assured, but also musically (check, for instance, the clarinet, oboe
and horn soli in the second movement or the trumpet passage in the
trio). While Ozawa may not give you the extreme sonorities the music
may call for in some moments, there is still plenty of impact and what
you get is a ton of very nicely revealed details and carefully prepared
textures. The sound is quite good too, a little spotmiky in places and
bright maybe, but quite full and still transparent.
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-18 02:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Only because it was cut.
TD
It wasn't merely cut...it was cut and pasted. Szell inserted some
repeats of material thinking he could improve on Bartok's formal
design. He was wrong...dead wrong (much like lil' Tommy is just about
all of the time).
Doesn't really matter how well played (it is very well played) or well
conducted (OK) Szell's recording is. It only amounts to a curiosity.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Of course Bartok himself changed the ending after the first
performances.
It's OK if Bartok does it. Have you heard the Szell recording? He
inserts a few 2 bar repeats and then clips the ending. He doesn't even
use Bartok's original. I find it rather arrogant that he thought he
could improve upon Bartok's work.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
I own it & I listen to it. I don't like the cut,though it bothers me
less than it used to. Szell,I think was arrogant in making the
cut,,,and it really does upset the dramatic scenario that the missing
little "mysterious" section sets up-so i'm rather surprised by this
seeming lapse of good judgement by a conductor that usually had very
good judgement indeed.And,come to think of it...Szell makes a cut in
the finale of the "live" Tchaikovsky 5th contained in the GCOTC
set-that he didn't make in the Cleveland/Sony version. Inconsistant too!
Szell's Bartok should have been one of the greats. The playing,
conducting (in general), and sound are excellent. I get so frustrated
when I get to the last movement.

As far as the Tchaikovsky 5th goes, the more cuts the better.
;-)
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
2005-11-17 00:49:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
This is the specific recording that converted me to CD back in '88.

- Russ (not Martha)
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-17 05:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by OhBoy
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Try Jansons with the Leningrad Philharmonic as well. Chandos.
I like that recording, too. Except for the third movement which I feel
is a bit rushed. Nice thing is that it is in rather better sound than
what we often got to hear during the Soviet era (even though it was
recorded in the 80s, it was made by Chandos in Dublin where the LP was
on tour).
Heck51
2005-11-16 22:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Levine/CSO on DG

dynamite in every respect...

I also like Reiner/CSO from live concert 1958.

the sound isn't great, but it's OK. great performance.
Paul Goldstein
2005-11-16 21:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
a***@aol.com
2005-11-16 22:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Live Martin Turnovsky.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
j***@aol.com
2005-11-16 22:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Live Martin Turnovsky.
I much prefer live Martin Turnovsky to the alternative. But I thought
for sure you were going to mention Gennady?!

--Jeff
Steve Emerson
2005-11-17 05:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Live Martin Turnovsky.
Did Ashkenazy/Czech Phil. ever get recorded?

SE.
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-17 05:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Live Martin Turnovsky.
Did Ashkenazy/Czech Phil. ever get recorded?
SE.
I don't think they did. I have a recording with the Czech Philharmonic
conducted by Kosler on Supraphon which is pretty good, but not so
exciting that you will want to jump from the roof. The sound is also a
little distant and reverberant. It blurs the typical Czech wind colors
a little and robs the sound of some of its impact.
j***@aol.com
2005-11-16 22:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Which Mitropoulos on Orfeo?

--Jeff
Paul Goldstein
2005-11-17 00:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Which Mitropoulos on Orfeo?
The VPO Salzburg concert c/w Schumann 2nd. I didn't know of another.
j***@aol.com
2005-11-17 08:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I was quite impressed by the live Mitropoulos on Orfeo, but my first
recommendation is still Levine.
Which Mitropoulos on Orfeo?
The VPO Salzburg concert c/w Schumann 2nd. I didn't know of another.
There's also the Bavarian Radio Symphony performance on Orfeo, coupled
with the Schoenberg Violin Concerto.

--Jeff
j***@earthlink.net
2005-11-19 14:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Thre is also a live Szell on Orfeo, coupled with the Haydn 93. Anyone
heard it?

jy
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-16 23:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Nope. Still Szell/Cleveland.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-17 00:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Szell was humourless.

Impossibly to conduct Prokofiev without a sense of humour.

Absolutely deadly.

TD
Todd Schurk
2005-11-17 00:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Szell was humourless.
Impossibly to conduct Prokofiev without a sense of humour.
Absolutely deadly.
TD
Karajan wasn't exactly Mr. Jocularity...and Szell (contrary to what
many think) had a wicked sense of humour. Like his remark about the
good looking maid he came across in a hotel that made him think of the
ink bottle directions..."screw tightly before tipping"...
Sol L. Siegel
2005-11-17 03:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Herbie the K was my imprint, and is still my favorite.

Am I the only one who likes Ormandy? He manages a big impact without
seeming to work too hard at it.

-Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"My reputation has nothing to do with me." - Terry Gilliam
Dave Cook
2005-11-17 12:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sol L. Siegel
Am I the only one who likes Ormandy? He manages a big impact without
seeming to work too hard at it.
Yes, Ormandy/Columbia is excellent. Also, Leinsdorf, which has been
reissued by Testament coupled with the 3rd (I've only heard the RCA
Navigator issue of 5).

Dave Cook
mingman
2005-11-20 09:17:14 UTC
Permalink
I'd recommend the Ormandy, too. Philadelphia O. at its prime--and
cheap, too, on Sony Essential Classics.
j***@earthlink.net
2005-11-19 14:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Szell was humourless.
Impossibly to conduct Prokofiev without a sense of humour.
Absolutely deadly.
TD
Karajan wasn't exactly Mr. Jocularity...and Szell (contrary to what
many think) had a wicked sense of humour. Like his remark about the
good looking maid he came across in a hotel that made him think of the
ink bottle directions..."screw tightly before tipping"...
Wasn't there something among the CSO players that, the dirtier the
jokes Szell told them before a concert, the better the concert was
going to be?

jy
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-11-19 16:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@earthlink.net
Post by Todd Schurk
Karajan wasn't exactly Mr. Jocularity...and Szell (contrary to what
many think) had a wicked sense of humour. Like his remark about the
good looking maid he came across in a hotel that made him think of the
ink bottle directions..."screw tightly before tipping"...
Wasn't there something among the CSO players that, the dirtier the
jokes Szell told them before a concert, the better the concert was
going to be?
He must have uttered "The Aristocrats!" before that final Tokyo concert.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Alexandros Rigas
2005-11-17 10:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
I discovered the Decca Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw CD and adore it not only
for the amazing audio quality.

Alex Rigas
Andy Evans
2005-11-17 16:53:26 UTC
Permalink
I imprinted on the Danish Radio Orchestra under Tuxen. In the last bars
the piano is recorded very close and is quite loud, and the jazzy
chords add a lot to the ending. I always regretted ever since that no
other recording brought out the piano in this passage - it kind of
'made' the last movement for me. Even though I like Szell a lot, I am
condemned to live with a permanent and aching sense of loss.
Mais ou sont les jazzy chords d'antan?
n***@thump.org
2005-11-17 21:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Dare I say it I still like Rattle very much. One of the best things
he's done.
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-18 01:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@thump.org
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Dare I say it I still like Rattle very much. One of the best things
he's done.
I have that one too, and yes, it is really very good. I haven't really
compared all the different versions I have, but it is definitely among
the best ones.
J***@msn.com
2005-11-18 01:31:19 UTC
Permalink
My live concert with Tennstedt and the New York Phil. I will look for
that Mitropoulos Orfeo, though. I enjoy the old Dorati, Minneapolis
Symphony on Mercury; the two Martinon's Paris Conservatory and ORTF
Orch.; Celibidache, RAI Milan.; live and recorded Koussevitzsky and the
Boston Symphony; and lastly Stokowski and the American Symphony (live).
j hauser
j***@aol.com
2005-11-18 07:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by J***@msn.com
My live concert with Tennstedt and the New York Phil. I will look for
that Mitropoulos Orfeo, though. I enjoy the old Dorati, Minneapolis
Symphony on Mercury; the two Martinon's Paris Conservatory and ORTF
Orch.; Celibidache, RAI Milan.; live and recorded Koussevitzsky and the
Boston Symphony; and lastly Stokowski and the American Symphony (live).
j hauser
That Tennstedt/NYPO performance is somewhat of a disappointment. I
don't think the orchestra is "together" in much of the early going, the
second and third movements are better, but overall it is a spacious,
gritty performance, with a very fragmented sound to the orchestra as it
is recorded here, leeching some of the evident power. So different than
Karajan, and not pleasantly so.

--Jeff
Dan Koren
2005-11-18 09:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.



dk
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-18 13:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
dk
Agreed, agreed, agreed.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Raymond Hall
2005-11-19 00:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS

Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI

Ray H
Taree
ansermetniac
2005-11-19 00:18:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:05:24 GMT, "Raymond Hall"
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI
Ray H
Taree
Ansermet FFAS. Ansermet FFAS, Ansermer FFAS

Abbedd
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-19 02:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
dk

Agreed, agreed, agreed.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier

BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI

Ray H
Taree

Ansermet FFAS. Ansermet FFAS, Ansermer FFAS

Jeffrey Powell


Sorry guys.

You're all wrong.

Stop avoiding the obvious. The former Nazi Party member, Mr. Karajan,
wins the day. No contest, actually.

I know it's hard for you all to accept it. But them's the facts.

Sad. But true.

TD
ansermetniac
2005-11-19 03:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
But them's the facts.
You are a sick man.


Abbedd
Raymond Hall
2005-11-19 04:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
Post by d***@yahoo.com
But them's the facts.
You are a sick man.
The thing that is noticeable, however, is how many of the Szell freaks seem
not to have heard Previn's EMI 5th with the LSO. Sounds to me as though
none. All the Szell carryon is hot air and bullshit and imprinting. They
have obviously never heard the symphony live, or on CD with decent
engineering. Szell's Prok 5th is so lite, and flitty, it is hardly worth the
effort of the space involved on the shelf.

Blaa blaa blaa ....

Ray H
Taree
Todd Schurk
2005-11-19 06:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by ansermetniac
Post by d***@yahoo.com
But them's the facts.
You are a sick man.
The thing that is noticeable, however, is how many of the Szell freaks seem
not to have heard Previn's EMI 5th with the LSO. Sounds to me as though
none. All the Szell carryon is hot air and bullshit and imprinting. They
have obviously never heard the symphony live, or on CD with decent
engineering. Szell's Prok 5th is so lite, and flitty, it is hardly worth the
effort of the space involved on the shelf.
Blaa blaa blaa ....
Ray
I had the Previn & got rid of it. It put me to sleep. It sounded like
syrup. It was bloated and flabby. Mundane. Boring. Like a sleepwalk for
101 folks who plat instruments. Szell's on the other hand sounds like
everyone is on a life and death mission. And of course they were-the
jobs they held depended on it. And Szell treats the work like it is a
symphony-not a tam-tam concerto. There is nothing "lite" about it-but
it doesn't dilly-dally,and it is of course orchestrally transparent and
brilliant. Next to that brilliance Previn is a slug.
Post by Raymond Hall
Taree
Raymond Hall
2005-11-19 07:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Schurk
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by ansermetniac
Post by d***@yahoo.com
But them's the facts.
You are a sick man.
The thing that is noticeable, however, is how many of the Szell freaks seem
not to have heard Previn's EMI 5th with the LSO. Sounds to me as though
none. All the Szell carryon is hot air and bullshit and imprinting. They
have obviously never heard the symphony live, or on CD with decent
engineering. Szell's Prok 5th is so lite, and flitty, it is hardly worth the
effort of the space involved on the shelf.
Blaa blaa blaa ....
Ray
I had the Previn & got rid of it. It put me to sleep. It sounded like
syrup. It was bloated and flabby. Mundane. Boring. Like a sleepwalk for
101 folks who plat instruments. Szell's on the other hand sounds like
everyone is on a life and death mission. And of course they were-the
jobs they held depended on it. And Szell treats the work like it is a
symphony-not a tam-tam concerto. There is nothing "lite" about it-but
it doesn't dilly-dally,and it is of course orchestrally transparent and
brilliant. Next to that brilliance Previn is a slug.
Well I've got both, and I know which one I always turn to. The Previn, or
Kuchar, but never the Szell, apart from when I need to listen to my imprint
of the Bartok CfO.

The Szell Prok 5th, to me, is Prok lite, too fast, and clickety clack. It is
a wonderful thing to have different tastes, and I am glad of mine. Btw, the
earth should shudder at the end of the first movement, and if it doesn't,
then something is wrong. Previn has great weight here, whereas Szell is piss
weak. Cotton candy from Cleveland.

Ray H
Taree
Lawrence Chalmers
2005-11-19 06:13:59 UTC
Permalink
As I said here a few times, I imprinted on Schippers/Philharmonia/emi on
Angel. Among the many (I think) good 5ths around, hearing his again
wold be fun. On the lp's the piani part teases you and demands to be
listened to as hard as you can. I'll bw amazed if it ever shows up on
cd. Testament should have substituted
the Martinon wth the Schippers

OT someone should put out a cd lof Hindemith conductinh his Symphonia
Serena that was once on vinyl with the Philharmonia. I don't know what
others there were made by him
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-19 14:08:20 UTC
Permalink
66. Lawrence Chalmers
Nov 19, 1:13 am show options
As I said here a few times, I imprinted on Schippers/Philharmonia/emi
on
Angel. Among the many (I think) good 5ths around, hearing his again
wold be fun. On the lp's the piani part teases you and demands to be
listened to as hard as you can. I'll bw amazed if it ever shows up on
cd. Testament should have substituted
the Martinon wth the Schippers

OT someone should put out a cd lof Hindemith conductinh his Symphonia
Serena that was once on vinyl with the Philharmonia. I don't know
what
others there were made by him

Lawrence Chalmers

I own lots i Schippers LPs, Lawrence, including the one you refer to.

You couldn't have "imprinted" on any better recording as a matter of
fact.

Schippers early demise robbed the USA of one of its most gifted
musicians. In my opinion.

TD
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-11-19 16:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Chalmers
As I said here a few times, I imprinted on Schippers/Philharmonia/emi on
Angel. Among the many (I think) good 5ths around, hearing his again
wold be fun. On the lp's the piani part teases you and demands to be
listened to as hard as you can. I'll bw amazed if it ever shows up on
cd. Testament should have substituted the Martinon wth the Schippers
OT someone should put out a cd lof Hindemith conductinh his Symphonia
Serena that was once on vinyl with the Philharmonia. I don't know what
others there were made by him
It was in EMI ZDCB 55032.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
mingman
2005-11-20 09:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Chalmers
As I said here a few times, I imprinted on Schippers/Philharmonia/emi on
Angel. Among the many (I think) good 5ths around, hearing his again
wold be fun. On the lp's the piani part teases you and demands to be
listened to as hard as you can. I'll bw amazed if it ever shows up on
cd. Testament should have substituted
the Martinon wth the Schippers
OT someone should put out a cd lof Hindemith conductinh his Symphonia
Serena that was once on vinyl with the Philharmonia. I don't know what
others there were made by him
I agree that the Schippers is worthy of CD reissue. I have a Japanese
LP of same; orchestral sheen and interpretation are first rate. Bite
and lyricism aplenty.
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-19 02:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:05:24 GMT, "Raymond Hall"
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI
Ray H
Taree
Ansermet FFAS. Ansermet FFAS, Ansermer FFAS
Abbedd
FFAS= Fully Fucked up Ansermetniac Sound.
I wonder if Ansermet has any heirs who hold the copyrights to his
recordings. They might want to hear about what you do to his recorded
heritage.
ansermetniac
2005-11-19 03:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Schaffer
Post by ansermetniac
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:05:24 GMT, "Raymond Hall"
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI
Ray H
Taree
Ansermet FFAS. Ansermet FFAS, Ansermer FFAS
Abbedd
FFAS= Fully Fucked up Ansermetniac Sound.
I wonder if Ansermet has any heirs who hold the copyrights to his
recordings. They might want to hear about what you do to his recorded
heritage.
Swift dunce, bottom feeder. Ignorant nazi prick


Abbedd
ansermetniac
2005-11-19 03:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Schaffer
Post by ansermetniac
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:05:24 GMT, "Raymond Hall"
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI
Ray H
Taree
Ansermet FFAS. Ansermet FFAS, Ansermer FFAS
Abbedd
FFAS= Fully Fucked up Ansermetniac Sound.
I wonder if Ansermet has any heirs who hold the copyrights to his
recordings. They might want to hear about what you do to his recorded
heritage.
Do you seriously think that Ansermet would be happy with Decca
boosting his cds 6 db over 1K and under 100Hz.

BTW you were asked nicely to stop trolling. When are you going to grow
up


Abbedd
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-19 03:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
No, Szell, Szell, Szell led the CO, CO, CO...not the BS, BS, BS.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Derrick Fawsitt
2005-11-20 00:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Dan Koren
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago
in this newsgroup. Any updates or newer
recommendations?
Szell, Szell and Szell.
BS, BS, BS
Previn EMI, Previn EMI, Previn EMI
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, of that there is no possible doubt,
no possible, probable shadow of doubt, no possible doubt whatever.
(Or is it probable possible, no, I am sure its possible probable)!!!!
--
Derrick Fawsitt
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
2005-11-18 15:15:06 UTC
Permalink
My favorite is Jansons/Leningrad PO, but IMO the "best" modern version
hasn't been made yet. I would love to have a performance that begins the
reprise of the scherzo "a tempo" á la Koussevitzky and Rodzinski. I believe
the slow beginning + accelerando was an afterthought, and to me it spoils
the wonderful quacking effect!

- Russ (not Martha)
r***@usa.net
2005-11-19 16:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
My favorite is Jansons/Leningrad PO, but IMO the "best" modern version
hasn't been made yet. I would love to have a performance that begins the
reprise of the scherzo "a tempo" á la Koussevitzky and Rodzinski. I believe
the slow beginning + accelerando was an afterthought, and to me it spoils
the wonderful quacking effect!
- Russ (not Martha)
I was wondering if anyone would mention Rodzinski -- an absolutely
marvelous recording that will probably never see the light of day on
CD.

My favorites would have to include Karajan, Levine, Koussevitzky and
Leinsdorf. If Ashkenazy's recording with COA had been up to his live
performances here in Cleveland, it would have been included in the top
rung. Unfortunately it did not.

Ron Whitaker
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-19 16:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@usa.net
Post by Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
My favorite is Jansons/Leningrad PO, but IMO the "best" modern version
hasn't been made yet. I would love to have a performance that begins the
reprise of the scherzo "a tempo" á la Koussevitzky and Rodzinski. I believe
the slow beginning + accelerando was an afterthought, and to me it spoils
the wonderful quacking effect!
- Russ (not Martha)
I was wondering if anyone would mention Rodzinski -- an absolutely
marvelous recording that will probably never see the light of day on
CD.
My favorites would have to include Karajan, Levine, Koussevitzky and
Leinsdorf. If Ashkenazy's recording with COA had been up to his live
performances here in Cleveland, it would have been included in the top
rung. Unfortunately it did not.
Ron Whitaker
Any thoughts anyone about Rostropovich' recording with the Orchestre
National de France?
j***@aol.com
2005-11-19 17:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@usa.net
Post by Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
My favorite is Jansons/Leningrad PO, but IMO the "best" modern version
hasn't been made yet. I would love to have a performance that begins the
reprise of the scherzo "a tempo" á la Koussevitzky and Rodzinski. I believe
the slow beginning + accelerando was an afterthought, and to me it spoils
the wonderful quacking effect!
- Russ (not Martha)
I was wondering if anyone would mention Rodzinski -- an absolutely
marvelous recording that will probably never see the light of day on
CD.
Rodzinski's concert rendition of the Prokofiev in 1957 with the RAI
Rome orchestra was released on a Stradivarius CD. I don't know if the
playing would suit you or not, but the performance is dynamic, to say
the least.
Post by r***@usa.net
My favorites would have to include Karajan, Levine, Koussevitzky and
Leinsdorf. If Ashkenazy's recording with COA had been up to his live
performances here in Cleveland, it would have been included in the top
rung. Unfortunately it did not.
Ashkenazy did record 6 and 7 in Cleveland. Were those nearly as good as
his live performances?

--Jeff
r***@usa.net
2005-11-19 20:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by r***@usa.net
My favorites would have to include Karajan, Levine, Koussevitzky and
Leinsdorf. If Ashkenazy's recording with COA had been up to his live
performances here in Cleveland, it would have been included in the top
rung. Unfortunately it did not.
Ashkenazy did record 6 and 7 in Cleveland. Were those nearly as good as
his live performances?
--Jeff
Those recorded performances were about the same as the live ones -- 6
was not as good as I had hoped, 7 quite good if not among the best.

Ron Whitaker
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
2005-11-20 15:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@usa.net
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by r***@usa.net
My favorites would have to include Karajan, Levine, Koussevitzky and
Leinsdorf. If Ashkenazy's recording with COA had been up to his live
performances here in Cleveland, it would have been included in the top
rung. Unfortunately it did not.
Ashkenazy did record 6 and 7 in Cleveland. Were those nearly as good as
his live performances?
--Jeff
Those recorded performances were about the same as the live ones -- 6
was not as good as I had hoped, 7 quite good if not among the best.
Ron Whitaker
Also the sound was very dry - a big disappointment after Ash's
beautiful-sounding "Cnderella."

I thought the spikier-than-usual #7 came off better than #6,which especially
disappointed me at the big moment in the finale where Prokofiev combines the
2 main themes. I eventually sold this CD.

- Russ (not Martha)
pgaron
2005-11-20 18:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@usa.net
Post by j***@aol.com
Ashkenazy did record 6 and 7 in Cleveland. Were those nearly as good as
his live performances?
Those recorded performances were about the same as the live ones -- 6
was not as good as I had hoped, 7 quite good if not among the best.
Reminds me of the scene in "Hot Shots - Part Deux" in which Charley
Sheen, as Topper, is reading a book on an airplane flight. His
seat-mate asks him:

"What are you reading?"
"Great Expectations."
"Is it any good?"
"It's not what I'd hoped for."

pgaron
Michael Schaffer
2005-11-21 09:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Here is another good recording that I "forgot" I had - that is not a
commentary on its quality though, I am just getting old and have too
many CDs: Temirkanov with the St.Petersburg Philharmonic on RCA. This a
recording from 1991. There is another one of Prokofiev 5 on Leningrad
Masters which seems to suggest it is an older recording because the
orchestra is advertised as "Leningrad Philharmonic". But I haven't
heard it.
Anyway, Temirkanov's RCA disc is a rather dark, heavy, and sometimes
heavy footed reading which has a lot of merits though. The playing has
a lot of weight and impact and there is a lot of inner detail. The
orchestra doesn't sound as characteristically "Russian" as they did on
recordings from the Soviet era. While that sound is partially the
result of the recording quality, what is also largely missing here is
the typical wide vibrato of the brass, as if that had been left behind
with the fall of communism...
Owen J. Hartnett
2005-11-23 07:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@westinghouse.com
This was last discussed five years ago in this newsgroup. Any updates
or newer recommendations?
Levine/CSO

I've heard Szell, Previn, Koussevitsky (also great) but I prefer Levine
over all them by far.

-Owen J.

Loading...