BBC Building a Library

[Andy Evans]

In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Chopin: Piano Sonata No.2 in B flat minor First Choice: Mikhail Pletnev
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Op.28 First Choice: Maria João Pires
Debussy: Piano Preludes (Books I and II) First Choice: Walter Gieseking
Debussy: String Quartet in G minor, Op.10 First Choice: Orpheus Quartet
Mahler: Symphony No.6 in A minor First Choice: BPO, Herbert von Karajan
Schubert: Winterreise First Choice: Peter Schreier (tenor), András Schiff
(piano)
Schumann: Carnaval, Op.9 First Choice: Mitsuko Uchida (piano)
R.Strauss: Till/Don Juan First Choice: BPO, Claudio Abbado
Stravinsky: Petrushka/Rite First Choice: LSO, Charles Dutoit

Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No.1 First Choice: Vladimir Ashkenazy
Beethoven: "Eroica" Variations, Op.35 First Choice: Clifford Curzon
Brahms: Symphony No.2 in D major First Choice: Concertgebouw/ Chailly
Debussy: La Mer First Choice: Berlin PO, Herbert von Karajan
Mahler: Symphony No.7 in E minor First Choice: CBSO, Sir Simon Rattle
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos Camerata of the 18th Century, Konrad Hünteler
Bizet: Carmen Tatiana Troyanos, Placido Domingo, Sir Georg Solti
Fauré: Requiem Catherine Bott, Gilles Cachemaille, John Eliot Gardiner
Mussorgsky: Boris Godunov BPO, Claudio Abbado
Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No.7 in Bb major First Choice: Maurizio Pollini
Schubert: String Quartet, D.810 'Death and the Maiden' Lindsay Quartet
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No.23 "Appassionata" Mikhail Pletnev (piano)
Chopin: Four Ballades Krystian Zimerman (piano)
Dvorák: Symphony No.9 in E minor, "New World" Royal Scottish Orch, Järvi
Mozart: Clarinet Quintet in A major, Nicholas Carpenter (clarinet),Brindisi
Quartet
Schubert: Piano Quintet in A major, "Trout" Alfred Brendel Cleveland Quartet,
Vivaldi: The Four Seasons Simon Standage (violin), English Concert,
Pinnock
Wagner: Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg Vienna PO, Sir Georg Solti 1975
J.S.Bach: Mass in B minor Emma Kirkby Taverner Consort Andrew Parrott
Debussy: Études First Choice: Garrick Ohlsson (piano),
Janacek: String Quartets First Choice: Panocha Quartet
Mahler: Symphony No.2 in C minor "Resurrection" CBSO Sir Simon Rattle
Mahler: Symphony No.4 in G, Royal Philharmonic, Daniele Gatti (conductor)
Schubert: Piano Sonata in Bb D.960 Mitsuko Uchida (piano),
Schumann: Piano Concerto First Choice: Murray Perahia
Shostakovich: Symphony No.10 in E minor Scottish National Orchestra, Järvi
Stravinsky: Les Noces New London Chamber Choir, Ensemble, James Wood
J.S. Bach: Six Keyboard Partitas, First Choice: Christophe Rousset
Beethoven: Piano Concerto No.3 in C minor, Op.37 First Choice: András Schiff
Mahler: Symphony No.10 BPO Sir Simon Rattle (conductor)
Schumann: Davidsbündlertänze, Op.6 First Choice: Benjamin Frith
Shostakovich: Symphony No.4 in C minor City of Birmingham Sir Simon Rattle
J.S. Bach: Cantata "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit", BWV.106 Joshua
Rifkin
Berlioz: L'enfance du Christ William McVicker, Matthew Best (conductor)
Brahms: Piano Concerto No.2 Solomon Philharmonia Orchestra, Issay Dobrowen
Chopin: Nocturnes First Choice: Livia Rév (piano)
Mozart: Piano Concerto No.22 in E flat, K.482 Alfred Brendel Scottish C.Orch
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition First Choice:Yefim Bronfman (piano)
Richard Strauss: Vier Letzte Lieder (Four Last Songs) Felicity Lott (soprano),
Royal Scottish National Orchestra, Neeme Järvi
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations, BWV.988 Gustav Leonhardt
Brahms: Piano Sonata, No.3, etc First Choice:Earl Wild (piano)
Mozart: Symphony No.39 in E Flat Major, etc. Prague Chamber Orch/ Mackerras
Rachmaninov: Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini, Op.43 Rafael Orozco
Schumann: Fantasie in C, Op.17 First Choice: Maurizio Pollini















=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

-Owen

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks
out of ten for the following first choice recommendations from BBC
Building a Library http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

It's telling that label names weren't given. There were a few performer
names I didn't recognize, but by far the bulk of these selections are from
the so-called "majors." I wonder if there is payola involved ... or maybe
the compiler just didn't bother to look beyond easy, lazy choices.

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks
out of ten for the following first choice recommendations from BBC
Building a Library http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

It's telling that label names weren't given. There were a few performer
names I didn't recognize, but by far the bulk of these selections are from
the so-called "majors." I wonder if there is payola involved ... or maybe
the compiler just didn't bother to look beyond easy, lazy choices.

Now I have heard it all.

The BBC accused of "payola"!

There is simply no limit to Tepper's paranoia when it comes to the
leading companies in the classical music business.

TD

[Akiralx]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks
out of ten for the following first choice recommendations from BBC
Building a Library http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

It's telling that label names weren't given. There were a few performer
names I didn't recognize, but by far the bulk of these selections are from
the so-called "majors." I wonder if there is payola involved ... or maybe
the compiler just didn't bother to look beyond easy, lazy choices.

No payola, it's just laziness or ignorance of unusual labels leading to many
candidates just not being heard. I remember for D960 the presenter stated
there were 3 HIP CDs of the sonata, whereas as Simon Roberts pointed out he
clearly wasn't aware of another 4 or so CDs out there.

Alex

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Akiralx

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks
out of ten for the following first choice recommendations from BBC
Building a Library http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

It's telling that label names weren't given. There were a few
performer names I didn't recognize, but by far the bulk of these
selections are from the so-called "majors." I wonder if there is
payola involved ... or maybe the compiler just didn't bother to look
beyond easy, lazy choices.

No payola, it's just laziness or ignorance of unusual labels leading to
many candidates just not being heard. I remember for D960 the presenter
stated there were 3 HIP CDs of the sonata, whereas as Simon Roberts
pointed out he clearly wasn't aware of another 4 or so CDs out there.

So what it is, basically, is an education problem? (Like in Oregon?)

[unknown]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:00:50 -0000, "Akiralx"

Post by Akiralx

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
It's telling that label names weren't given. There were a few performer
names I didn't recognize, but by far the bulk of these selections are from
the so-called "majors." I wonder if there is payola involved ... or maybe
the compiler just didn't bother to look beyond easy, lazy choices.

No payola, it's just laziness or ignorance of unusual labels leading to many
candidates just not being heard. I remember for D960 the presenter stated
there were 3 HIP CDs of the sonata, whereas as Simon Roberts pointed out he
clearly wasn't aware of another 4 or so CDs out there.

rmcr members' knowledge of the available recordings tends to be on a
world-wide and internet-available basis. Rightly or wrongly, the
program limits itself to what the average 'lay' listener can currently
expect to find (or easily order) in a UK bricks and mortar shop. So
the selections will inevitably tend to be mainstream labels.

Labels and numbers of the recommendations (often, where appropriate,
with alternative historical/HIP/non-HIP choices) are given on the
programme and the Ceefax and web site summaries.

I am not being an apologist for the programme's shortcomings, just
pointing out their perceived brief.

Don.

[Simon Roberts]

Post by unknown
rmcr members' knowledge of the available recordings tends to be on a
world-wide and internet-available basis. Rightly or wrongly, the
program limits itself to what the average 'lay' listener can currently
expect to find (or easily order) in a UK bricks and mortar shop. So
the selections will inevitably tend to be mainstream labels.

But the range of small labels, British and European (even American), available
in the British market is considerable, and they're all equally available to
chains such as Virgin. There seems to be a rather wide range of recordings
available that mainstream British critics just don't seem to know about.
Perhaps someone at the BBC should inaugurate a program devoted to first rate
recordings on less familiar labels that can easily be ordered....

Simon

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by unknown
rmcr members' knowledge of the available recordings tends to be on a
world-wide and internet-available basis. Rightly or wrongly, the
program limits itself to what the average 'lay' listener can currently
expect to find (or easily order) in a UK bricks and mortar shop. So
the selections will inevitably tend to be mainstream labels.

But the range of small labels, British and European (even American),
available in the British market is considerable, and they're all
equally available to chains such as Virgin. There seems to be a
rather wide range of recordings available that mainstream British
critics just don't seem to know about. Perhaps someone at the BBC
should inaugurate a program devoted to first rate recordings on less
familiar labels that can easily be ordered....

But then they wouldn't get their payola from the "majors"! ;--)

(Ooh, what a giveaway!)

[unknown]

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by unknown
rmcr members' knowledge of the available recordings tends to be on a
world-wide and internet-available basis. Rightly or wrongly, the
program limits itself to what the average 'lay' listener can currently
expect to find (or easily order) in a UK bricks and mortar shop. So
the selections will inevitably tend to be mainstream labels.

But the range of small labels, British and European (even American), available
in the British market is considerable, and they're all equally available to
chains such as Virgin. There seems to be a rather wide range of recordings
available that mainstream British critics just don't seem to know about.
Perhaps someone at the BBC should inaugurate a program devoted to first rate
recordings on less familiar labels that can easily be ordered....

I agree with you, and I also find their 'mainstream' attitude and lack
of knowledge frustrating.I just wanted to remind our wider
international membership, as a slight corrective of the facts, that
the field of play is not necessarily the one that they see.

Don.

[David R L Porter]

Post by unknown

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by unknown
rmcr members' knowledge of the available recordings tends to be on a
world-wide and internet-available basis. Rightly or wrongly, the
program limits itself to what the average 'lay' listener can currently
expect to find (or easily order) in a UK bricks and mortar shop. So
the selections will inevitably tend to be mainstream labels.

But the range of small labels, British and European (even American), available
in the British market is considerable, and they're all equally available to
chains such as Virgin. There seems to be a rather wide range of recordings
available that mainstream British critics just don't seem to know about.
Perhaps someone at the BBC should inaugurate a program devoted to first rate
recordings on less familiar labels that can easily be ordered....

I agree with you, and I also find their 'mainstream' attitude and lack
of knowledge frustrating.I just wanted to remind our wider
international membership, as a slight corrective of the facts, that
the field of play is not necessarily the one that they see.

I remember a couple of years ago trying to order a 2nd Viennese piano
recital by an obscure pianist on a small label, which the BBC Music
magazine (I know it's not the same as the BBC BaL, even though they
republish it) had praised highly - and had to give up after six months
because no shop within miles could find it.

[Andy Evans]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[taro takei]

Post by Owen Hartnett
Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

I think the "first choice" means the first CD you might be able to
find in the CD bin of the "classical music" section in a local CD shop
where rock and pop are dominant.

-- taro

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Wow, could you compile a set of more middle of the road (perhaps
mediocre) "first choices?"

Probably not, though some of them look rather controversial. But given the
nature of the program, "safe" recommendations are to be expected ("safety" has
always seemed a criterion for a "library" recommendation on that program). (Of
the pieces on the list I care about, there's only one recording I might choose
as a first choice, though of course that's neither here nor there.)

Simon

[Van Eyes]

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

Marks? Probably an average of 5.
Out of the 50-somethin' selections, I had 9 that I felt should be in the
Top 5 for the particular work, and about 3 or 4 of those could be argued
for front-running. Scary stuff on the surface,
but perhaps not too surprising, in that "Stormin' Norman" graces their
airwaves.


Regards

[David M. Cook]

Post by Andy Evans
Debussy: La Mer First Choice: Berlin PO, Herbert von Karajan

I like this one. I'm sure some of the other ones are pretty good, but
there's an obvious bias in the list.

Dave Cook

[Andy Evans]

The choices are very seriously made, and the programme plays excerpts from the
main ones, in fact it's a bit like 'Classical Idol' - recordings get dismissed
one by one until you come to the winner.
I can't see any payola, but I agree with Simon that there's a hell of a lot of
safety. Probably along the lines of 'interesting playing but doesn't really let
the music speak for itself'. But with immediate A-B comparisons it's still
rather frightening that some of the choices turn out the way they do. Uchida in
Schubert's 960????
The bias I see is towards English chums in the music business, dead or alive,
hence Solomon, Curzon, Rattle, Gardiner, Scottish SO (lots of them...). Then
there's the usual Karajan stuff and a fondness for women pianists like Pires,
Argerich and Uchida. Although putting Argerich and Uchida in the same sentence
isn't likely to prove anything! All the same, strange choices at times, and
unlikely to be the first choices of many of us, particularly those who want to
let the artist speak for him(her)self.
Listening to the radio as I speak - the usually good CD Masters praising
Kempff's Bach 48 for its 'exquisite rubato'. Sigh. At least it's not Medieval
choral music.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Andy Evans
The choices are very seriously made, and the programme plays excerpts from the
main ones, in fact it's a bit like 'Classical Idol' - recordings get dismissed
one by one until you come to the winner.
I can't see any payola, but I agree with Simon that there's a hell of a lot of
safety.

Probably the worst way to select classical music. I don't know about
you, but when I recommend a recording, safety is the last concern.
Then, what is it the list is "safe" from? Surely not criticism! :-)

-Owen

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
The choices are very seriously made, and the programme plays excerpts from the
main ones, in fact it's a bit like 'Classical Idol' - recordings get dismissed
one by one until you come to the winner.
I can't see any payola, but I agree with Simon that there's a hell of a lot of
safety.

Probably the worst way to select classical music. I don't know about
you, but when I recommend a recording, safety is the last concern.
Then, what is it the list is "safe" from? Surely not criticism! :-)

True; but do you ever make recommendations to a completely unknown audience?
Not knowing the taste of the person you're making recommendations to, it must be
tempting to opt for recordings which are "safe" - which is one reason not to
make recommendations to such people.

Simon

[Andy Evans]

it must be tempting to opt for recordings which are "safe" >>

the only 'safe' thing I can think of is recording quality and curiously the BBC
have recommended a fair few historical recordings too. Simon - are you afraid
that the drama (BBC speak 'drammer' since all presenters are Scottish) of your
own tastes will curdle the stomachs of the Pommies, even if it passes their
stiff upper lips?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Andy Evans
it must be tempting to opt for recordings which are "safe" >>
the only 'safe' thing I can think of is recording quality and curiously the BBC
have recommended a fair few historical recordings too. Simon - are you afraid
that the drama (BBC speak 'drammer' since all presenters are Scottish) of your
own tastes will curdle the stomachs of the Pommies, even if it passes their
stiff upper lips?

Well, I grew up musically in Pommieland.... No, my point is simply that
recommendations can't usefully be made unless you know the taste of the person
you're talking to. If you don't know, there's a temptation to come up with
recordings that have been widely praised and don't seem to cause much offense
(except, say, to oddities like me, who don't count).

Simon

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Andy Evans
The choices are very seriously made, and the programme plays excerpts from the
main ones, in fact it's a bit like 'Classical Idol' - recordings get dismissed
one by one until you come to the winner.
I can't see any payola, but I agree with Simon that there's a hell of a lot of
safety.

Probably the worst way to select classical music. I don't know about
you, but when I recommend a recording, safety is the last concern.
Then, what is it the list is "safe" from? Surely not criticism! :-)

True; but do you ever make recommendations to a completely unknown audience?
Not knowing the taste of the person you're making recommendations to, it must be
tempting to opt for recordings which are "safe" - which is one reason not to
make recommendations to such people.

In this case, the audience is somewhat known, as "building a library"
would apply mostly to neophytes. As such, recommending mostly middle
of the road performances would serve more to discourage, than encourage
their continued interest.

If you were to recommend Tchaikovsky Concerto #1 to a new listener,
would would be the probability that it would be Ashkenazy? It's not
like it's a difficult to listen to work, and a better recording would
be more trying on new ears.

It seems like it's decision by committee, and what ends up being
selected is the work which is the least likely to offend anyone, except
through boredom.

-Owen

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Owen Hartnett
In this case, the audience is somewhat known, as "building a library"
would apply mostly to neophytes. As such, recommending mostly middle
of the road performances would serve more to discourage, than encourage
their continued interest.

Depends on their taste, surely. There are plenty of people who like, or even
prefer, middle-of-the-road performances.... (I often like them too, though I
seldom prefer them.)

Post by Owen Hartnett
If you were to recommend Tchaikovsky Concerto #1 to a new listener,
would would be the probability that it would be Ashkenazy? It's not
like it's a difficult to listen to work, and a better recording would
be more trying on new ears.

But he might find the middle-of-the-road performance "better." Ashkenazy has
his fans, you know.... (Of course, if someone asked me to recommend a
Tchaikovsky #1 I would tell him to go and ask someone else.)

Post by Owen Hartnett
It seems like it's decision by committee, and what ends up being
selected is the work which is the least likely to offend anyone, except
through boredom.

Yes, except for the last clause. How many proud owners of Perahia's Mozart
concertos do you think are bored by them? Some might, of course, prefer someone
else's if introduced to it/them, but others may not.

A more interesting program would consist of a critic with strong opinions
tackling a particular work and explaining why certain recordings are his/her
favorites and why others fail. There's an element of that in Building a
Library, of course, but in my suggestion any pretense that there was more at
stake than the taste of the presenter would be abandoned.

Simon

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Owen Hartnett
If you were to recommend Tchaikovsky Concerto #1 to a new listener,
would would be the probability that it would be Ashkenazy? It's not
like it's a difficult to listen to work, and a better recording would
be more trying on new ears.

But he might find the middle-of-the-road performance "better." Ashkenazy has
his fans, you know.... (Of course, if someone asked me to recommend a
Tchaikovsky #1 I would tell him to go and ask someone else.)

It's not so much a crack at Ashkenazy - as I don't think he's MOTR on
everything he plays.

The Tchaikovsky #1 is a middle of the road piece, in and of itself.
The obvious choice (even an obvious MOTR choice) would be Van Cliburn -
given the fine performance and the fact that his recording still
continues to sell strongly.

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Owen Hartnett
It seems like it's decision by committee, and what ends up being
selected is the work which is the least likely to offend anyone, except
through boredom.

Yes, except for the last clause. How many proud owners of Perahia's Mozart
concertos do you think are bored by them? Some might, of course, prefer someone
else's if introduced to it/them, but others may not.

My objection to the list is not so much that an individual piece is
boring, but the collection taken as a whole is pretty boring. For
someone seeking to build a library of basic repertoire, I disagree
strongly with their selections.

Post by Simon Roberts
A more interesting program would consist of a critic with strong opinions
tackling a particular work and explaining why certain recordings are his/her
favorites and why others fail. There's an element of that in Building a
Library, of course, but in my suggestion any pretense that there was more at
stake than the taste of the presenter would be abandoned.

Or even two critics of usually opposing views giving their opinions.
One could align oneself on their favorite, based on past
recommendations. (Which is kind of what we do here.)

-Owen

[Nick X Sun]

I recall correctly, most of the seemingly obvious choices had been mentioned
in that selection, before Ashkenazy one been chosen, for overall
performance, not just the piano play but the orchestra as well. Of course,
this was before Martha/Abbado's one came out. But, whatever commercial
release you might come up with, if it's really good, might have been
mentioned there already. Well, maybe Simon still keeps that issue (BBC music
Magazine), since mine has been lent to my colleague long, long time ago.

Nick

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Owen Hartnett
If you were to recommend Tchaikovsky Concerto #1 to a new listener,
would would be the probability that it would be Ashkenazy? It's not
like it's a difficult to listen to work, and a better recording would
be more trying on new ears.

But he might find the middle-of-the-road performance "better."

Ashkenazy has

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Simon Roberts
his fans, you know.... (Of course, if someone asked me to recommend a
Tchaikovsky #1 I would tell him to go and ask someone else.)

It's not so much a crack at Ashkenazy - as I don't think he's MOTR on
everything he plays.
The Tchaikovsky #1 is a middle of the road piece, in and of itself.
The obvious choice (even an obvious MOTR choice) would be Van Cliburn -
given the fine performance and the fact that his recording still
continues to sell strongly.

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Owen Hartnett
It seems like it's decision by committee, and what ends up being
selected is the work which is the least likely to offend anyone, except
through boredom.

Yes, except for the last clause. How many proud owners of Perahia's Mozart
concertos do you think are bored by them? Some might, of course, prefer someone
else's if introduced to it/them, but others may not.

My objection to the list is not so much that an individual piece is
boring, but the collection taken as a whole is pretty boring. For
someone seeking to build a library of basic repertoire, I disagree
strongly with their selections.

Post by Simon Roberts
A more interesting program would consist of a critic with strong opinions
tackling a particular work and explaining why certain recordings are his/her
favorites and why others fail. There's an element of that in Building a
Library, of course, but in my suggestion any pretense that there was more at
stake than the taste of the presenter would be abandoned.

Or even two critics of usually opposing views giving their opinions.
One could align oneself on their favorite, based on past
recommendations. (Which is kind of what we do here.)
-Owen

[Phil Wood]

Post by Nick X Sun
I recall correctly, most of the seemingly obvious choices had been mentioned
in that selection, before Ashkenazy one been chosen, for overall
performance, not just the piano play but the orchestra as well. Of course,
this was before Martha/Abbado's one came out. But, whatever commercial
release you might come up with, if it's really good, might have been
mentioned there already. Well, maybe Simon still keeps that issue (BBC music
Magazine), since mine has been lent to my colleague long, long time ago.

But Building a Library is a radio programme (part of "CD Review") - the
précis in the BBC Mag is just a faint taste of it.

Listen to it at

www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/cdreview.shtml

which instantly confounds the point I made in my previous post - this week's
critic is female.

Phil

[Neill Reid]

Post by Owen Hartnett
The Tchaikovsky #1 is a middle of the road piece, in and of itself.
The obvious choice (even an obvious MOTR choice) would be Van Cliburn -
given the fine performance and the fact that his recording still
continues to sell strongly.

That's really only an obvious recommendation for sensibilities nurtured
this side of the pond. The Richter/Polish orchestra (conductor escaping
my memory - W??) might be an obvious one elsewhere (although I guess that
would count as a dangerous performance, based on Mr Evans criteria);
the Horowitz/Toscanini war bonds would be my obvious performance; the
Terence Judd might be another.
Sometimes what's obvious depends a lot on where you grew up (or
approximated same).

Post by Owen Hartnett
Or even two critics of usually opposing views giving their opinions.

You'd end up with the crossfire-style "debate" (shouting match of sound
bytes) which seems to pass for political discussion nowadays.

Post by Owen Hartnett
One could align oneself on their favorite, based on past
recommendations. (Which is kind of what we do here.)

A reliably-calibrated critic can be a good guide, regardless of whether
you agree with his/her points of view. Unfortunately, such souls are few
and far between

Post by Owen Hartnett
-Owen

[Robert Marshall]

Post by Neill Reid

Post by Owen Hartnett
The Tchaikovsky #1 is a middle of the road piece, in and of itself.
The obvious choice (even an obvious MOTR choice) would be Van
Cliburn - given the fine performance and the fact that his recording
still continues to sell strongly.

That's really only an obvious recommendation for sensibilities
nurtured this side of the pond. The Richter/Polish orchestra
(conductor escaping my memory - W??) might be an obvious one
elsewhere (although I guess that would count as a dangerous
performance, based on Mr Evans criteria); the Horowitz/Toscanini
war bonds would be my obvious performance; the Terence Judd might
be another. Sometimes what's obvious depends a lot on where you
grew up (or approximated same).

I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

R

[Simon Roberts]

In article <***@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk>, Robert Marshall
says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an Emperor
Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt cheap, the
orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg something-or-other, the pianist
female, and the LP sleeve was decorated with postage stamps (I think; I can't
remember the other details, but suspect someone else reading this can). I
eventually tracked it down. The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious
(even worse than VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A
true legendary recording!

Simon

[Paul Goldstein]

Post by Simon Roberts
says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an Emperor
Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt cheap, the
orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg something-or-other, the pianist
female, and the LP sleeve was decorated with postage stamps (I think; I can't
remember the other details, but suspect someone else reading this can). I
eventually tracked it down. The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious
(even worse than VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A
true legendary recording!

The Nuremberg SO has made some of the most hilariously bad recordings in
history.

Paul Goldstein

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Paul Goldstein

Marshall says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an
Emperor Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt
cheap, the orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg
something-or-other, the pianist female, and the LP sleeve was decorated
with postage stamps (I think; I can't remember the other details, but
suspect someone else reading this can). I eventually tracked it down.
The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious (even worse than
VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A true
legendary recording!

The Nuremberg SO has made some of the most hilariously bad recordings in
history.

It's a trial just to hear them.

[Paul Goldstein]

In article <***@207.217.77.201>, Matthew B. Tepper
says...

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Paul Goldstein

Marshall says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an
Emperor Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt
cheap, the orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg
something-or-other, the pianist female, and the LP sleeve was decorated
with postage stamps (I think; I can't remember the other details, but
suspect someone else reading this can). I eventually tracked it down.
The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious (even worse than
VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A true
legendary recording!

The Nuremberg SO has made some of the most hilariously bad recordings in
history.

It's a trial just to hear them.

I respect your judgment.

Paul Goldstein

[David R L Porter]

Post by Simon Roberts
says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an Emperor
Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt cheap, the
orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg something-or-other, the pianist
female, and the LP sleeve was decorated with postage stamps (I think; I can't
remember the other details, but suspect someone else reading this can). I
eventually tracked it down. The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious
(even worse than VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A
true legendary recording!

I think, to be fair, that I can recall the rave reviewers conceding that
the orchestra was dreadful. I never bought the LP (I was wedded to
Kempff in those days) (if you see what I mean) but I still have the
cassette version, reissued on Chevron (now that might have been the
Woolworth label).

The pianist was Hanae Nakajima, and the conductor Rato Tschupp: the
orchestra isn't mentioned on the skimly sleeve notes (though there's a
picture of an LP cover with the orchestra credited as the Nuremburg SO
on the front - no postage stamps, just a bust of Beethoven). I think the
reason we never heard of them again is that their names weren't really
Nakajima and Tschupp - I think the conductor was really Albert Lizzio
:)))

Tiny labels occasionally get this kind of publicity even today - not
long ago some reviewers were hailing Jane Glover's Haydn on (I think)
Tring or Pilz as being absolutely wonderful. I think she was better
served by her orchestra than wasNakajima, and the sound apparently was
fine.

[Andy Evans]

not long ago some reviewers were hailing Jane Glover's Haydn >>

That's really the 'English sickness' in reviews - certain personalities seem,
by some process of dodgy engineering, to be "taken to the hearts of listeners".
Whether they're taken or propelled by other forces is a moot question. The list
goes - from memory - Askanase, Lipatti, Menuhin, Kempff, Curzon, Karajan,
Te-Kanawa, Uchida, Gardiner, Rattle, Ashkenazy. I don't know if there's a
common thread there.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Henk van Tuijl]

Post by Andy Evans
not long ago some reviewers were hailing Jane Glover's Haydn >>
That's really the 'English sickness' in reviews - certain personalities seem,
by some process of dodgy engineering, to be "taken to the hearts of listeners".
Whether they're taken or propelled by other forces is a moot question. The list
goes - from memory - Askanase, Lipatti, Menuhin, Kempff, Curzon, Karajan,
Te-Kanawa, Uchida, Gardiner, Rattle, Ashkenazy. I don't know if there's a
common thread there.

Askanase - are you referring to Stefan
Askenaze?

Ashkenazy - are you referring to the
conductor or pianist?

AFAIK Lipatti, Kempff and the pianist
Ashkenazy didn't need much propelling
by other forces, in their days.

Stefan Askenaze was a regular in the
Netherlands, shortly after the war.
He was not really propelled. It must
have been a matter of economics,
since he lived in Brussels. Besides,
I cannot remember ever having heard
him play one wrong note or unclear
passage. He was a true professional.

I am not so sure about Curzon and
Uchida. Was Curzon ever popular
outside England? Uchida became known
but not very popular after her
concours in Brussels. I only remember
her as a DG star, after she did
better in Leeds.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

Stefan Askenaze was a regular in the
Netherlands, shortly after the war.>

Critics used to rave about his Chopin playing. I never knew why. You couldn't
get much safer. Must have suited the LTMSFI brigade right down to the ground.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Henk van Tuijl]

Post by Henk van Tuijl
Stefan Askenaze was a regular in the
Netherlands, shortly after the war.>
Critics used to rave about his Chopin playing. I never knew why. You couldn't
get much safer. Must have suited the LTMSFI brigade right down to the ground.

Indeed, following that brigade he
did everything right Rubinstein
did wrong.

The remarkable thing is that he
never tried to become "invisible"
as Krebbers did in his days - he
just wasn't a very inspiring
performer.

Nevertheless, he was a true
professional - unlike Del Pueyo,
who also lived in Brussels but
could not always be trusted to
play enough right notes to be
called an interpreter, i.e. of
something recognizable.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

unlike Del Pueyo, who also lived in Brussels but could not always be trusted to
play enough right notes to be called an interpreter, i.e. of something
recognizable>

Very nice way of putting it!

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by Andy Evans
unlike Del Pueyo, who also lived in Brussels but could not always be trusted to
play enough right notes to be called an interpreter, i.e. of something
recognizable>
Very nice way of putting it!

Nice, but inaccurate.

TD

[Henk van Tuijl]

Post by d***@yahoo.com

Post by Andy Evans
unlike Del Pueyo, who also lived in Brussels but could not always be trusted to
play enough right notes to be called an interpreter, i.e. of something
recognizable>
Very nice way of putting it!

Nice, but inaccurate.
TD

Your experience with him must have been
a better one than mine. IIRC I did hear
him twice in a Beethoven recital, and
his interpretations were _very_ uneven.

Nevertheless, I did cherish his
Granados LP - still one of the best
interpretations IMO.

Henk

[Philip Peters]

Post by Henk van Tuijl

Post by d***@yahoo.com

Post by Andy Evans
unlike Del Pueyo, who also lived in Brussels but could not always be

trusted to

Post by d***@yahoo.com

Post by Andy Evans
play enough right notes to be called an interpreter, i.e. of something
recognizable>
Very nice way of putting it!

Nice, but inaccurate.
TD

Your experience with him must have been
a better one than mine. IIRC I did hear
him twice in a Beethoven recital, and
his interpretations were _very_ uneven.

I have some of his Beethoven recordings and they are about the worst I
ever heard.

Philip

[Leroy Curtis]

Post by David R L Porter

Post by Simon Roberts
says...

Post by Robert Marshall
I seem to remember a Building a Lib of Tchaikovsky #1 from the 70's
where the recommended version was extremely obscure - an LP only
available at Woolworth's? but if anyone can remind me of the performer
and whether they were ever heard from again, I'd be grateful

I don't know about the Tchaikovsky, but that's more-or-less true of an Emperor
Concerto recommendation from the 1970s. The recording was dirt cheap, the
orchestra, if memory serves, was the Nuremburg something-or-other, the pianist
female, and the LP sleeve was decorated with postage stamps (I think; I can't
remember the other details, but suspect someone else reading this can). I
eventually tracked it down. The pianist was OK, but the orchestra was atrocious
(even worse than VPO/Knappersbusch for Curzon), the recorded sound awful.... A
true legendary recording!

I think, to be fair, that I can recall the rave reviewers conceding that
the orchestra was dreadful. I never bought the LP (I was wedded to
Kempff in those days) (if you see what I mean) but I still have the
cassette version, reissued on Chevron (now that might have been the
Woolworth label).
The pianist was Hanae Nakajima, and the conductor Rato Tschupp: the
orchestra isn't mentioned on the skimly sleeve notes (though there's a
picture of an LP cover with the orchestra credited as the Nuremburg SO
on the front - no postage stamps, just a bust of Beethoven). I think the
reason we never heard of them again is that their names weren't really
Nakajima and Tschupp - I think the conductor was really Albert Lizzio
:)))

Interestingly, I have the same pianist and orchestra, but conducted by
one Zsolt Deaky, in the Beethoven PC5 on a 10" LP as part of Fabbri and
Partners 1970s partwork "The Great Musicians." In the same series, I
have Nakajima and the NSO, this time conducted by Tshupp, in the Franck
Symphonic Variations and Symphony (the latter minus pianist, of course),
and, conducted by Othmar P Maga (surely one to rival Matthew's favourite
Hiram P Beepgladeep), in Handel's Firework Music, and with Ralph Holmes
as the soloist, in the Tchaikovsky VC. The orchestra also features in
some Wagner "bleeding chunks," conducted by either Hans Swarowsky or
Erich Kloss.

Your evaluation of the performers would probably explain why I couldn't
take to the Franck at all until very recently, when I renewed my
acquaintance with it via other performances; I suspect I heard enough
different performances of the Beethoven to hear through the inadequacies
of the NSO's playing. Besides, it was my first recording of the piece,
and I then knew no better. I haven't played these discs for years, and
in fact have no functioning turntable ATM; it would be interesting to
return to them now, after having heard many other recordings.

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Owen Hartnett
Or even two critics of usually opposing views giving their opinions.
One could align oneself on their favorite, based on past
recommendations. (Which is kind of what we do here.)

Yes; that would be even better.

Simon

[Phil Wood]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[unknown]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:04:49 -0000, "Phil Wood"
<***@myplace.org.uk> wrote:
[snip]

Post by Phil Wood
Whoever is the critic of the week uses excerpts to
explain his choice (can't recall ever hearing a woman do this programme).

This is changing. In the last two months we've had Tess Knighton on
Byrd Masses and Lucy Parham on the Grieg Piano Concerto. (Not that I
thought either of them made very enticing listening, and if anything
they seemed even more unaware of the record scene than their
colleagues.).

Don.

[Andy Evans]

Lucy Parham on the Grieg Piano Concerto>

That was pretty uninspiring. But these critics are clearly very knowledgeable
about music history and musicology. The actual talk is quite interesting, but
the conclusions are sometimes very hard to comprehend. Still - these programmes
are about as good as it gets these days, together with CD Masters which is
really good.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Simon Roberts]

Post by unknown
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:04:49 -0000, "Phil Wood"
[snip]

Post by Phil Wood
Whoever is the critic of the week uses excerpts to
explain his choice (can't recall ever hearing a woman do this programme).

This is changing. In the last two months we've had Tess Knighton on
Byrd Masses and Lucy Parham on the Grieg Piano Concerto.

There were a few in the 1970s - Mary Berry, for instance.

(Not that I

Post by unknown
thought either of them made very enticing listening, and if anything
they seemed even more unaware of the record scene than their
colleagues.).

The reviewers may have no say in the matter - do they choose the recordings or
does the BBC send them a stack of the discs they are to discuss?

Simon

[Andy Evans]

But it's not that bad a programme. I would welcome any suggestions for a
comparable but better programme I can get on a webcast.>>

It's a very interesting programme to listen to because they play excerpts. On a
few occasions I've immediately liked some that were rejected - Lehmann's
Christmas Oratorio (WHERE can I get this?) and Schubert Octet from Aston Magna.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Alan P Dawes]

Post by Andy Evans
But it's not that bad a programme. I would welcome any suggestions for a
comparable but better programme I can get on a webcast.>>
It's a very interesting programme to listen to because they play
excerpts. On a few occasions I've immediately liked some that were
rejected - Lehmann's Christmas Oratorio (WHERE can I get this?) and
Schubert Octet from Aston Magna.

You can also hear the complete recording (or an extended exerpt) the next
day in the 'Cowan Collection' which runs from 9 to 12am. They don't
advertise the time when it will be played but usually it will be in the
last hour of the programme.

Alan

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Phil Wood
It sounds as if you have never heard the programme - which is a critic with
opinions (I don't know how strong) taking the available (in the UK)
recordings of a piece and going through them and rejecting them one by one -
giving his reasons. Whoever is the critic of the week uses excerpts to
explain his choice (can't recall ever hearing a woman do this programme).

I used to listen to it every Saturday morning when I lived in the U.K. (though
that's not been for rather a long time).

Post by Phil Wood
As such it is obviously the presenter's choice that is being made, publicity
about past choices usually has XXXX's choice for the YYYY was ZZZZ. Where
is the pretense?

Maybe it's all unabashedly personal now, but my memory of it is that their
opinions were announced more as though they were revealing objective truths
about the merits of the recordings at hand than stating personal preferences (as
is often the case with critics; I'm not referring to mere factual details about
a performance). BBC magazine's reduced versions of the scripts sometimes
confirm that impression.

Simon

[Andy Evans]

Magic Flute tomorrow Saturday starting 9am UK time if you want to get a feel of
it. You should be able to hear it off the website www.bbc.co.uk

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Phil Wood]

Post by Andy Evans
Magic Flute tomorrow Saturday starting 9am UK time if you want to get a feel of
it. You should be able to hear it off the website www.bbc.co.uk

Each programme is available for a week after broadcast so you can listen to
it whenever you want. It is a 4 hour programme though!

Phil

[Bill McCutcheon]

Post by Simon Roberts
Maybe it's all unabashedly personal now, but my memory of it is that their
opinions were announced more as though they were revealing objective truths
about the merits of the recordings at hand than stating personal preferences (as
is often the case with critics; I'm not referring to mere factual details about
a performance). BBC magazine's reduced versions of the scripts sometimes
confirm that impression.
Simon

I've never heard any of the broadcasts, but I agree that definitely IS
the tone of the magazine articles, not just sometimes, but most of the
time.
-- Bill McC.

[jszostaksr]

Dave: They can keep there list...! While not recent some of my 'first
choices' would be as follows-

La Mer - Reiner/CSO
Petrushka/Rite of Spring - Dorati/Detroit
Mahler #2 - Walter/Columbia or Bernstein/NYP or Solti/CSO
Mahler #7 - Bernstein/NYP
Carmen - Callas
Boris Godunov - Christoff or Ghiaurov (the Rimsky version ONLY)
Appassionata - Rubinstein or Ashkenazy
Dvorák #9 - Reiner/CSO
Vier Letzte Lieder - Janowitz/Karajan
Mozart #39 - Walter/Vienna or Furtwängler/Berlin
Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini - Rubinstein/Reiner


Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Post by David M. Cook

Debussy: La Mer First Choice: Berlin PO, Herbert von Karajan

I like this one. I'm sure some of the other ones are pretty good, but
there's an obvious bias in the list.
Dave Cook

[Andy Evans]

Well - my choices would be as follows. Not at all safe, needless to say.

Chopin: Piano Sonata No.2 in B flat minor Rachmaninov
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Op.28 Pogorelich
Debussy: Piano Preludes (Books I and II) Cortot/Richter live
Debussy: String Quartet in G minor, Op.10
Vlach Qt
Schubert: Winterreise Patzak
Schumann: Carnaval, Op.9 Rachmaninov
Stravinsky: Rite Ozawa, Petrushka Boulez
Brahms: Symphony No.2 in D major Col/Walter
Debussy: La Mer Boulez/Philh.
Mussorgsky: Boris Godunov Reizen/Golovanov
Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No.7 in Bb major Richter
Dvorák: Symphony No.9 in E minor, "New World" Ancerl/Czech PO live Salzberg
Mozart: Clarinet Quintet in A major, Benny Goodman/Budapest
Wagner: Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg Sawallisch or Solti 2
Debussy: Études First Choice: Charles Rosen (yes - LP only, very
practical. Let the buggers buy a turntable and find a copy)
Janacek: String Quartets First Choice: Janacek Quartet
Schubert: Piano Sonata in Bb D.960 Horowitz Live Carnegie Hall
Shostakovich: Symphony No.10 in E Czech PO/Ancerl
Stravinsky: Les Noces
Czech PO/Ancerl or Bernstein
J.S. Bach: Six Keyboard Partitas, Gould
Beethoven: Piano Concerto No.3 in C Solomon
J.S. Bach: Cantata "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit", BWV.106 Gardiner
Brahms: Piano Concerto No.2 Richter
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition Richter
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations, BWV.988 Gould
Mozart: Symphony No.39 in E Flat Major, etc Walter (pref. pre-war)
Schumann: Fantasie in C, Op.17 First Choice: Brendel (1st recording) Curiously
I do rather like this version.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[jszostaksr]

Andy: Yes...I have to agree with the Ancerl readings...I'd forgotten
him...and that's one helluva impressive/useful website you've got there!

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Post by Andy Evans
Well - my choices would be as follows. Not at all safe, needless to say.
Chopin: Piano Sonata No.2 in B flat minor Rachmaninov
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Op.28 Pogorelich
Debussy: Piano Preludes (Books I and II) Cortot/Richter live
Debussy: String Quartet in G minor, Op.10
Vlach Qt
Schubert: Winterreise Patzak
Schumann: Carnaval, Op.9 Rachmaninov
Stravinsky: Rite Ozawa, Petrushka Boulez
Brahms: Symphony No.2 in D major Col/Walter
Debussy: La Mer Boulez/Philh.
Mussorgsky: Boris Godunov Reizen/Golovanov
Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No.7 in Bb major Richter
Dvorák: Symphony No.9 in E minor, "New World" Ancerl/Czech PO live Salzberg
Mozart: Clarinet Quintet in A major, Benny Goodman/Budapest
Wagner: Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg Sawallisch or Solti 2
Debussy: Études First Choice: Charles Rosen (yes - LP only, very
practical. Let the buggers buy a turntable and find a copy)
Janacek: String Quartets First Choice: Janacek Quartet
Schubert: Piano Sonata in Bb D.960 Horowitz Live Carnegie Hall
Shostakovich: Symphony No.10 in E Czech PO/Ancerl
Stravinsky: Les Noces
Czech PO/Ancerl or Bernstein
J.S. Bach: Six Keyboard Partitas, Gould
Beethoven: Piano Concerto No.3 in C Solomon
J.S. Bach: Cantata "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit", BWV.106 Gardiner
Brahms: Piano Concerto No.2 Richter
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition Richter
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations, BWV.988 Gould
Mozart: Symphony No.39 in E Flat Major, etc Walter (pref. pre-war)
Schumann: Fantasie in C, Op.17 First Choice: Brendel (1st recording) Curiously
I do rather like this version.
=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Michael Smith]

and that's one helluva impressive/useful website you've [Andy] got there!
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Hear hear!

Michael

[gopal]

Post by Andy Evans
Well - my choices would be as follows. Not at all safe, needless to say.
Schubert: Winterreise Patzak
=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

What label is this on,and can you tell me the accompanist?

[Andy Evans]

Schubert: Winterreise Patzak/Demus

1964 Preiser 93067

He was around 60 at the time but that doesn't stop it being my favourite
version. What a voice he had!


=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[gopal]

Post by Andy Evans
Schubert: Winterreise Patzak/Demus
1964 Preiser 93067
He was around 60 at the time but that doesn't stop it being my favourite
version. What a voice he had!
=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Thanks- with these two, I can imagine that it would be a great
Winterreise. I'll have to try to find it.

[gopal]

Post by jszostaksr
Dave: They can keep there list...! While not recent some of my 'first
choices' would be as follows-
Mozart #39 - Walter/Vienna or Furtwängler/Berlin
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Is there a Walter 39 with Vienna? I know of the 1934 BBC one.

[Stephen North]

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml

I used to listen to this programme because it was a great way to be
introduced to new works and the various ways they could be
interpreted. I didn't pay much attention to the final outcome, but it
was helpful in giving a quick albeit incomplete, feel for what was
available. I learned a great deal from it in my student years.

Now I have countless versions of most of the things they review, and I
know better what I like. The old "Interpretations on Record" was
better but I think I'd find even that lacking nowadays. The
repertoire list is narrow but then as a newbie where does one start.
I bet we couldn't decide amongst ourselves on 100 pieces for a newbie
to collect let alone which versions.

So I think this kind of list is simply irrelevant to the kind of
expertise and experience we have in this group - though probably
useful for newbies.

Of course in this forum we can all have a go at how dim witted the
BBC's choice is, but I'd wager any one of us who put up their own list
will get away without some debate or a keelhauling.

S

[Chris Martin]

I suggest listening to the show for a few weeks in a row. Then you can
hear how the reviewer justified a certain recording as the first
choice. And considering that there are no other alternatives (except
an occasional Jim Svejda show and an Performance Today segment), I
think rmcr'ers should show a little gratitude.

One thing I have noticed is that most (if not all) of their reviewers
read the score before they review recordings, so your favorite
characterful recording might not be on this list because it wasn't
actually faithful to the composers phrase, tempo, mood and dynamic
markings. On a recent show, a reviewer noticed that nearly available
recordings of Dvorak's 8th was not faithful to the score, so he
settled for the least of the several evils.

On another note, here are a couple of recent first choices I would
consider far from safe:

Holst, Planets - Levi/Atlanta Symphony (the reviewer noted that he
knew nothing about the ASO so it was far from a safe choice for him.
Plus a safe choice would be Boult, Mehta, Previn or Karajan.)

Liszt, 1st Piano Concerto -- Lortie, Residentie Orchestra

By the way, if you want to bypass the BBC's clunky webpage player,
open up RealPlayer and open

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/rpms/cdreview.rpm

Andy didn't mention that reviewers often give a first choice, midprice
choice, budget choice, second choice, and historic choice.

So for example
First Choice:
Earl Wild (piano)
IVORY CLASSICS CD72008 (CD)

Mid Price Choice:
Julius Katchen
DECCA 452 338-2 (2-CD, mid-price)

Budget Price Choice:
Idil Biret
NAXOS 8.550352 (CD, budget)

Historic (mono) Choice:
Solomon (piano)
TESTAMENT SBT 1084 (CD)

And for the record, I don't think we need to have an affirmative
action program for small labels. The best performers have mostly
recorded with the major labels over the past 50 years, so go figure.

Cheers,
Chris

Post by Andy Evans
In light of recent comments about 'highly rated recordings', marks out of ten
for the following first choice recommendations from BBC Building a Library
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/building/index.shtml
Chopin: Piano Sonata No.2 in B flat minor First Choice: Mikhail Pletnev
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Op.28 First Choice: Maria João Pires
Debussy: Piano Preludes (Books I and II) First Choice: Walter Gieseking

. . .

[Andy Evans]

On a recent show, a reviewer noticed that nearly available recordings of
Dvorak's 8th was not faithful to the score, so he
settled for the least of the several evils.>

Is it possible that eliminating some excellent performances for such reasons
may be simply pedantic?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Bob Lombard]

Post by Andy Evans
Is it possible that eliminating some excellent performances for such reasons
may be simply pedantic?

Is 'simply pedantic' a redundancy, as 'intelligently pedantic' is an
oxymoron?

bl

[Andy Evans]

Post by Andy Evans
Is it possible that eliminating some excellent performances for such reasons
may be simply pedantic?

Is 'simply pedantic' a redundancy, as 'intelligently pedantic' is an
oxymoron?>

I meant it in the sense of 'nothing more than pedantry'. For instance a
conductor - say Stokowski - who changes a score does so for a number of
hopefully musical reasons, whereas the critic who dismisses 'unfaithful'
readings may be doing so solely on the grounds that 'it is not literally
correct'. Now you are going to tell me that 'literally correct' is a
redundancy. We could keep this up for awhile!

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

[Bob Lombard]

Post by Bob Lombard

Post by Andy Evans
Is it possible that eliminating some excellent performances for such reasons
may be simply pedantic?

Is 'simply pedantic' a redundancy, as 'intelligently pedantic' is an
oxymoron?>
I meant it in the sense of 'nothing more than pedantry'. For instance a
conductor - say Stokowski - who changes a score does so for a number of
hopefully musical reasons, whereas the critic who dismisses 'unfaithful'
readings may be doing so solely on the grounds that 'it is not literally
correct'. Now you are going to tell me that 'literally correct' is a
redundancy. We could keep this up for awhile!
=== Andy Evans ===

The _sense_ of 'literally correct' is clear in this instance -
provided that the 'unfaithful' refers to gross (i.e. obvious) things
like additional or missing bars, or pianissimo phrases becoming double
forte. I do wonder at the purpose of this reading the score before
listening to the recording. Does the reviewer lose face if he fails
to note one of those deviations from the score?

bl

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Andy Evans
On a recent show, a reviewer noticed that nearly available recordings of
Dvorak's 8th was not faithful to the score, so he
settled for the least of the several evils.>
Is it possible that eliminating some excellent performances for such reasons
may be simply pedantic?

I guess the response would be that an "unfaithful" performance can't be
excellent. But even allowing the reviewer that assumption, might it not have
occurred to him that there's more to fidelity to the score than "fidelity to how
I, reviewer X, interpret the marks on the page"?

Simon

[Paul Goldstein]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Chris Martin
says...

Post by Chris Martin
One thing I have noticed is that most (if not all) of their reviewers
read the score before they review recordings, so your favorite
characterful recording might not be on this list because it wasn't
actually faithful to the composers phrase, tempo, mood and dynamic
markings. On a recent show, a reviewer noticed that nearly available
recordings of Dvorak's 8th was not faithful to the score, so he
settled for the least of the several evils.

I think any critic who has a hard time finding a single recording of Dvorak's
8th symphony to recommend should consider another line of work.

Paul Goldstein

[Chris Martin]

Do you have a copy of the score? Have you listened to all the
available recordings with a copy of the score in your hands?

Certainly, some Stokowskiesque mangling of scores makes for exciting
performance. But the much greater achievement is to be faithful to the
score and still give an exciting performance,

Chris

Post by Simon Roberts
says...

Post by Chris Martin
One thing I have noticed is that most (if not all) of their reviewers
read the score before they review recordings, so your favorite
characterful recording might not be on this list because it wasn't
actually faithful to the composers phrase, tempo, mood and dynamic
markings. On a recent show, a reviewer noticed that nearly available
recordings of Dvorak's 8th was not faithful to the score, so he
settled for the least of the several evils.

I think any critic who has a hard time finding a single recording of Dvorak's
8th symphony to recommend should consider another line of work.
Paul Goldstein

[Neill Reid]

Post by Chris Martin
Do you have a copy of the score? Have you listened to all the
available recordings with a copy of the score in your hands?
Certainly, some Stokowskiesque mangling of scores makes for exciting
performance. But the much greater achievement is to be faithful to the
score and still give an exciting performance,

Why do I think I can predict the way this argument is going to proceed?
Yes, it's deja vu, all over again.

Neill Reid - ***@stsci.edu

[Simon Roberts]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Chris Martin
says...

Post by Chris Martin
I suggest listening to the show for a few weeks in a row. Then you can
hear how the reviewer justified a certain recording as the first
choice. And considering that there are no other alternatives (except
an occasional Jim Svejda show and an Performance Today segment), I
think rmcr'ers should show a little gratitude.

It's beyond criticism because there's no alternative?

Post by Chris Martin
One thing I have noticed is that most (if not all) of their reviewers
read the score before they review recordings, so your favorite
characterful recording might not be on this list because it wasn't
actually faithful to the composers phrase, tempo, mood and dynamic
markings.

More likely, because it wasn't actually faithful to how the reviewer reads the
score....

Simon

[Chris Martin]

Post by Simon Roberts
says...

Post by Chris Martin
I suggest listening to the show for a few weeks in a row. Then you can
hear how the reviewer justified a certain recording as the first
choice. And considering that there are no other alternatives (except
an occasional Jim Svejda show and an Performance Today segment), I
think rmcr'ers should show a little gratitude.

It's beyond criticism because there's no alternative?

NO! But you should show some appreciation considering it even exists.

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Chris Martin
One thing I have noticed is that most (if not all) of their reviewers
read the score before they review recordings, so your favorite
characterful recording might not be on this list because it wasn't
actually faithful to the composers phrase, tempo, mood and dynamic
markings.

More likely, because it wasn't actually faithful to how the reviewer reads the
score....

Here we go again. This is why I said in my first message that you
should try listening to the program for a few weeks. Then you can hear
what the reviewer is saying about the score and the performance. And
you can make up your own mind,

Chris

[Simon Roberts]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Chris Martin
says...

Post by Chris Martin

Post by Simon Roberts
More likely, because it wasn't actually faithful to how the reviewer reads the
score....

Here we go again. This is why I said in my first message that you
should try listening to the program for a few weeks. Then you can hear
what the reviewer is saying about the score and the performance. And
you can make up your own mind,

You're missing the point - which is that the score doesn't just sit there
uninterpreted. The reviewer, consciously or not, has *his* understanding of the
score, and it's *that* understanding, not something else, that forms the basis
of his judgments concerning whether a musician is "faithful" to it. And as I
mentioned earlier, I've listened to that program (and read the synopses in BBC
Music Magazine) for years.

Simon