WAYLTL - 21st century music

[Todd M. McComb]

Since I often add contemporary music to the regular WAYLTL threads,
and I'm not sure how well it fits with many entries there, I thought
that maybe I'd break it out into a different thread....

Maybe there's some further continuity that can thus develop with
time....

Maybe others will even have some 21st century listening to report....

Most recently in WAYLTL January, I noted albums devoted to new works
by Frey & Wolff:

https://collectionqb.bandcamp.com/album/j-rg-frey-string-quartet-no-4
https://idischidiangelica.bandcamp.com/album/sveglia

Less known is Jean Derome of Quebec, but I enjoyed his new album
today... reminds me of Wolff, perhaps:

https://jeanderome.bandcamp.com/album/la-chaleur-de-la-pens-e

Regarding other sources for this music, at least the Derome & Frey
are on Qobuz, so probably other streaming options.... Not yet for
the Wolff, from what I've found....

[Dan Koren]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Since I often add contemporary music to the regular WAYLTL threads,
and I'm not sure how well it fits with many entries there, I thought
that maybe I'd break it out into a different thread....
Maybe there's some further continuity that can thus develop with
time....
Maybe others will even have some 21st century listening to report....
Most recently in WAYLTL January, I noted albums devoted to new works
https://collectionqb.bandcamp.com/album/j-rg-frey-string-quartet-no-4
https://idischidiangelica.bandcamp.com/album/sveglia
Less known is Jean Derome of Quebec, but I enjoyed his new album
https://jeanderome.bandcamp.com/album/la-chaleur-de-la-pens-e
Regarding other sources for this music, at least the Derome & Frey
are on Qobuz, so probably other streaming options.... Not yet for
the Wolff, from what I've found....

Too late! I already listen to 22nd century music! ;-)

Cheers

[Todd M. McComb]

Another "piece" that I've been listening to lately -- listening
through... -- is the gigantic _Even to this day..._ by Southern
California multi-wind player Vinny Golia.

Two movements of this work have been released so far:

https://vinnygoliamusic.bandcamp.com/album/even-to-this-day-movement-one-inoculations-music-for-orchestra-and-soloists

https://vinnygoliamusic.bandcamp.com/album/even-to-this-day-music-for-orchestra-and-soloists-movement-two-syncretism-for-the-draw

Each is over 11 hours, so we're not talking about an ordinary
listening experience. I'm not really sure what's intended.... And
while I'm sure notation is involved for many sections, that may
only be in background to the "real release" in sound. Golia is,
after all, a jazz & improvised music player.

Golia (b.1946) is also a very skilled player on many wind instruments
himself, and that degree of control & precision is generally
maintained in this sprawling work. Technique is very good, including
in the more classical sections.

And there're a variety of genre invocations... some classical, jazz,
improvisation, even some rock....

So I don't know what the point of wrapping all this together into
one work really is, but it's quite a survey of contemporary
music-making. It's almost like an oratorio, except the singing
isn't especially frequent... but far bigger than most anyone puts
out. More like an encyclopedia. (As if a Mahler symphony fits in
the corner....)

There is supposed to be a third movement.

[Mandryka]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Another "piece" that I've been listening to lately -- listening
through... -- is the gigantic _Even to this day..._ by Southern
California multi-wind player Vinny Golia.
https://vinnygoliamusic.bandcamp.com/album/even-to-this-day-movement-one-inoculations-music-for-orchestra-and-soloists
https://vinnygoliamusic.bandcamp.com/album/even-to-this-day-music-for-orchestra-and-soloists-movement-two-syncretism-for-the-draw
Each is over 11 hours, so we're not talking about an ordinary
listening experience. I'm not really sure what's intended.... And
while I'm sure notation is involved for many sections, that may
only be in background to the "real release" in sound. Golia is,
after all, a jazz & improvised music player.
Golia (b.1946) is also a very skilled player on many wind instruments
himself, and that degree of control & precision is generally
maintained in this sprawling work. Technique is very good, including
in the more classical sections.
And there're a variety of genre invocations... some classical, jazz,
improvisation, even some rock....
So I don't know what the point of wrapping all this together into
one work really is, but it's quite a survey of contemporary
music-making. It's almost like an oratorio, except the singing
isn't especially frequent... but far bigger than most anyone puts
out. More like an encyclopedia. (As if a Mahler symphony fits in
the corner....)
There is supposed to be a third movement.

James Clarke's string quartets - he's got a "new complexity" vibe and I like it - Arditti playing.

https://soundcloud.com/james-clarke-01

[cheregi]

Post by Mandryka
James Clarke's string quartets - he's got a "new complexity" vibe and I like it - Arditti playing.
https://soundcloud.com/james-clarke-01

Quartet No.6 on this page held my attention for its entire duration, I especially liked the TV-static horror-movie type of scraping - the way that texture was used, its appearance and disappearance. I guess this is sort of an obvious thing to say and could be said probably about most 21st-century string quartets, but this feels like taking ideas developed as experiment in the last century, and making use of them as compositional/expressive language - in service of other goals.

As far as 'affect', is it fair to say most 21st-century 'art music' emphasizes either extreme repose or extreme agitation?

Post by Mandryka
Another "piece" that I've been listening to lately -- listening
through... -- is the gigantic _Even to this day..._ by Southern
California multi-wind player Vinny Golia.

Do you put this on in the background for a whole day??

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
As far as 'affect', is it fair to say most 21st-century 'art music'
emphasizes either extreme repose or extreme agitation?

I don't think so, but those are probably the easiest things to
notice.

Post by cheregi
Do you put this on in the background for a whole day??

I try to focus & listen, so I've made it through about 5 hours at
once in one sitting.... Mostly an hour or two at a time. I pause
it when I need to do something else, and come back later. This is
taking me a couple of weeks -- and partly because releases were
slow in general the first half of the month.... I wouldn't always
have the time.

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by Mandryka
James Clarke's string quartets - he's got a "new complexity" vibe
and I like it - Arditti playing.
https://soundcloud.com/james-clarke-01

Listening today, I agree these are worth hearing. (I listened only
to String Quartets Nos. 1 & 4-6 from that page, although the other
pieces are probably worth hearing too....) While addressing a
variety of contemporary musical materials (incl. e.g. Scelsi in
#5), these also have a real "string quartet" feel as chamber music
that some other current music in the format doesn't necessarily
seem to have.... The pitch-bending effects opening #6 (which I
heard last...) are also striking....

Considering how sophisticated his writing is, it sure doesn't seem
as though Clarke (b.1957, London) has much presence online. E.g.
his own web site has lapsed.

[Chris J.]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Maybe others will even have some 21st century listening to report....

21st century music? Saint Saëns, Bruch, Dvorák, Fauré, Janácek, Elgar,
Puccini, Mahler, R. Strauss, Debussy, Nielsen, Sibelius...
Some great stuff there.

Chris

[Todd M. McComb]

"With her extraordinary debut album, Prelude, young Slovenian pianist
Rebeka Rusjan Zajc (now residing in Amsterdam), announces herself
as a precocious new talent, already forging her own distinctive art
language, navigating the bountiful margins between non-idiomatic
improvisation, jazz and classical music."

https://cleanfeedrecords.bandcamp.com/album/prelude

"Across this disc's sole extended piece, _Illusion_, she marshals
a dynamic carnival of boundless extemporisation, full of instinctive
runs and dramatically tumbling rubato, vivid constellations initiated
in the imagination hyperdrive of her striking real-time composition.
Passages of impish scherzo conjure fantastical images of surreal
painted bestiaries, while converging notes rush like snaking rapids
across the clashing rocks of atonalism. Evocative and oozing energy,
this beguiling music clamours for allegory, voraciously fuelling
fictional chimeras on its virtuosic feasts."

Some of this reminds me of slow movements from Sorabji... it's that
kind of orchestral solo piano, perfumed garden....

[Oscar]

McComb: I enjoy yr 21st C. posts and occasionally fire up the Bandcamp and listen to them. Proceed. As you were . . .

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by Oscar
I enjoy yr 21st C. posts and occasionally fire up the Bandcamp
and listen to them. Proceed. As you were . . .

Thanks for the remarks.

[cheregi]

Post by Todd M. McComb
"With her extraordinary debut album, Prelude, young Slovenian pianist
Rebeka Rusjan Zajc (now residing in Amsterdam), announces herself
as a precocious new talent, already forging her own distinctive art
language, navigating the bountiful margins between non-idiomatic
improvisation, jazz and classical music."
https://cleanfeedrecords.bandcamp.com/album/prelude
"Across this disc's sole extended piece, _Illusion_, she marshals
a dynamic carnival of boundless extemporisation, full of instinctive
runs and dramatically tumbling rubato, vivid constellations initiated
in the imagination hyperdrive of her striking real-time composition.
Passages of impish scherzo conjure fantastical images of surreal
painted bestiaries, while converging notes rush like snaking rapids
across the clashing rocks of atonalism. Evocative and oozing energy,
this beguiling music clamours for allegory, voraciously fuelling
fictional chimeras on its virtuosic feasts."
Some of this reminds me of slow movements from Sorabji... it's that
kind of orchestral solo piano, perfumed garden....

Thank you, this is great!

Feels to me like the 'writing'(?) is not quite as 'deep' as Sorabji, but on the other hand there's a degree of nuance in timing/rhythm which I haven't heard in any Sorabji recordings. Of course it's its own thing and there's no reason at all to compare - other than how rare it is for this comparison even to feel possible...

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
Thank you, this is great!

I enjoyed it.

There seems to be a new generation of improvising pianists emerging
in Europe, playing a wide variety of personal styles -- not necessarily
jazz-based at all. I'm not sure how the personnel overlaps or not
with e.g. the classical piano contests beloved of some posters here,
but I imagine that young musicians are choosing between these
scenes....

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by Todd M. McComb
"With her extraordinary debut album, Prelude, young Slovenian pianist
Rebeka Rusjan Zajc (now residing in Amsterdam), announces herself
as a precocious new talent, already forging her own distinctive art
language, navigating the bountiful margins between non-idiomatic
improvisation, jazz and classical music."
https://cleanfeedrecords.bandcamp.com/album/prelude

So FWIW, the pianist herself saw this post here, back at the time,
something that could still happen with RMCR....

Anyway, now she's back with the planned bigger set -- beyond _Prelude_
above:

https://cleanfeedrecords.bandcamp.com/album/introducing-4

It's a series of 5 solo "Piano Operas." (Maybe think Liszt, but
passing through the delicacy of French salon music...? I'd earlier
suggested Sorabji's image of a perfumed garden... minus the fugues.)
A little over 3 hours in total. Still seems like the kind of piano
playing some (perhaps now lapsed...) posters here would appreciate....

(Also on streaming, including high-def e.g. on Qobuz.)

[cheregi]

Thank you for the rec! I (cheregi) am still here occasionally but, you
know, less and less as it gets more and more dysfunctional. I'm just a
few minutes into the first track here and predictably really getting a
lot out of it. Anyway I've been intermittently working on another big
RYM essay-list and at risk of sounding presumptuous I wanted to note
that I plan to link it here when it's up..

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
Thank you for the rec! I (cheregi) am still here occasionally but,
you know, less and less as it gets more and more dysfunctional.
I'm just a few minutes into the first track here and predictably
really getting a lot out of it. Anyway I've been intermittently
working on another big RYM essay-list and at risk of sounding
presumptuous I wanted to note that I plan to link it here when
it's up..

Nice to hear from you, and I look forward to what you've got
brewing....

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Since I often add contemporary music to the regular WAYLTL threads,
and I'm not sure how well it fits with many entries there, I thought
that maybe I'd break it out into a different thread....

Joerg Widmann. Viola Concerto (2015). Antoine Tamestit, members of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Daniel Harding. A recent live performance can be seen on the Digital Concert Hall.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by Andrew Clarke
Joerg Widmann. Viola Concerto (2015). Antoine Tamestit, members
of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Daniel Harding. A recent
live performance can be seen on the Digital Concert Hall.

I finally had a listen to the Harmonia mundi recording (from 2018)
this afternoon. Enjoyable piece... another to emphasize movement
& space (pace the most recent post else-thread...), generally
maintains (but not 100% of the time) a light texture for the orchestra
& the feel of improvisation.... But sentimental by the end.

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Todd M. McComb

Post by Andrew Clarke
Joerg Widmann. Viola Concerto (2015). Antoine Tamestit, members
of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Daniel Harding. A recent
live performance can be seen on the Digital Concert Hall.

I finally had a listen to the Harmonia mundi recording (from 2018)
this afternoon. Enjoyable piece... another to emphasize movement
& space (pace the most recent post else-thread...), generally
maintains (but not 100% of the time) a light texture for the orchestra
& the feel of improvisation.... But sentimental by the end.

Apparently, the idea of movement was inspired by Tamestit's earlier performance of 'Harold in Italy' in a concert conducted by Sir John Elliot Gardiner, where the soloist also wandered around the orchestra, possibly to avoid a punch up the snoot from the conductor. Interestingly enough, considering your remarks about the conclusion of the piece, the work following the concerto was a Bruckner symphony.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Todd M. McComb]

A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....

Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.

https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir

As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

[Mandryka]

Post by Todd M. McComb
A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....
Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.
https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir
As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

Yes La Cité des Saules is a nice piece of music. I quite like Dufourt - but sometimes I find what he does sounds a bit too heavy for me.

[cheregi]

Post by Todd M. McComb
A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....
Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.
https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir
As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

I listened through "L'Origine du monde". I'd be curious to compare it to the million other 'origin of the world' compositions from 20th century and earlier. This one pulled off an interesting gamelan-like superimposition of doubletime/halftime rhythms in its last third, which did something interesting to my sense of time, in a way that makes sense for a physics-oriented 'origin of the world'.

Partially inspired by this thread, I've re-started delving into François Bayle's late works, those made at his private studio since leaving GRM in 1996. The two most important multi-sectional works are probably "La forme du temps est un cercle" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-du-temps-est-un-cercle ) and "La forme de l'esprit est un papillon" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-de-lesprit-est-un-papillon ). The sound palette at first still seems to have that midcentury-electronic kitschiness, but the attention to detail here as well as structure I find extremely engaging, and I continue to be really attracted to the philosophy of working totally and 'directly' with 'sound itself'. In 1999 Bayle wrote a piece dedicated to Grisey, which I guess connects Bayle and the GRM world a bit more strongly than I had thought to other contemporary currents.

[Mandryka]

Post by cheregi

Post by Todd M. McComb
A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....
Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.
https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir
As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

I listened through "L'Origine du monde". I'd be curious to compare it to the million other 'origin of the world' compositions from 20th century and earlier. This one pulled off an interesting gamelan-like superimposition of doubletime/halftime rhythms in its last third, which did something interesting to my sense of time, in a way that makes sense for a physics-oriented 'origin of the world'.
Partially inspired by this thread, I've re-started delving into François Bayle's late works, those made at his private studio since leaving GRM in 1996. The two most important multi-sectional works are probably "La forme du temps est un cercle" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-du-temps-est-un-cercle ) and "La forme de l'esprit est un papillon" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-de-lesprit-est-un-papillon ). The sound palette at first still seems to have that midcentury-electronic kitschiness, but the attention to detail here as well as structure I find extremely engaging, and I continue to be really attracted to the philosophy of working totally and 'directly' with 'sound itself'. In 1999 Bayle wrote a piece dedicated to Grisey, which I guess connects Bayle and the GRM world a bit more strongly than I had thought to other contemporary currents.

I like La toupie dans le ciel from Erosphère.

The L'origine du monde is somehow inspired by the Courbet I think - I've got a book of Dufourt's writings and I'll check what he has to say about it later.

[Mandryka]

Post by Mandryka

Post by cheregi

Post by Todd M. McComb
A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....
Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.
https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir
As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

I listened through "L'Origine du monde". I'd be curious to compare it to the million other 'origin of the world' compositions from 20th century and earlier. This one pulled off an interesting gamelan-like superimposition of doubletime/halftime rhythms in its last third, which did something interesting to my sense of time, in a way that makes sense for a physics-oriented 'origin of the world'.
Partially inspired by this thread, I've re-started delving into François Bayle's late works, those made at his private studio since leaving GRM in 1996. The two most important multi-sectional works are probably "La forme du temps est un cercle" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-du-temps-est-un-cercle ) and "La forme de l'esprit est un papillon" ( https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-de-lesprit-est-un-papillon ). The sound palette at first still seems to have that midcentury-electronic kitschiness, but the attention to detail here as well as structure I find extremely engaging, and I continue to be really attracted to the philosophy of working totally and 'directly' with 'sound itself'. In 1999 Bayle wrote a piece dedicated to Grisey, which I guess connects Bayle and the GRM world a bit more strongly than I had thought to other contemporary currents.

I like La toupie dans le ciel from Erosphère.
The L'origine du monde is somehow inspired by the Courbet I think - I've got a book of Dufourt's writings and I'll check what he has to say about it later.

Enjoying the Sharespace violin piece here, composer is Roger Reynolds.The music is spatialised I think but it sounds OK in stereo.

https://rogerreynolds.bandcamp.com/album/for-a-reason

I'd love to see what the score of this looks like.

Roger Reynolds's website could be interesting

https://www.rogerreynolds.com/works/program_notes_brief.html

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
Partially inspired by this thread, I've re-started delving into
François Bayle's late works, those made at his private studio since
leaving GRM in 1996. The two most important multi-sectional works
are probably "La forme du temps est un cercle" (
https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-du-temps-est-un-cercle
) and "La forme de l'esprit est un papillon" (
https://francois-bayle.bandcamp.com/album/la-forme-de-lesprit-est-un-papillon
). The sound palette at first still seems to have that
midcentury-electronic kitschiness, but the attention to detail
here as well as structure I find extremely engaging, and I continue
to be really attracted to the philosophy of working totally and
'directly' with 'sound itself'.

I'm finally getting to these. I don't think Bayle had really
registered with me before as a composer, but I found _La forme du
temps est un cercle_ to be engaging in multi-faceted ways, and
intend to hear _La forme de l'esprit est un papillon_ soon.

(This is also music straddling 20th/21st centuries, if that matters.)

Clearly I should've paid more attention at some point, but I confess
to being put off by purely electronic music until relatively recently,
and then basically forcing myself to listen. But I've become more
receptive. It's still strange to me to think of fiddling with
command lines & dials as "working directly with sound itself"
though.... (I think of it more as working directly with wires &
plastic.)

[cheregi]

I'm finally getting to these. I don't think Bayle had really
registered with me before as a composer, but I found _La forme du
temps est un cercle_ to be engaging in multi-faceted ways, and
intend to hear _La forme de l'esprit est un papillon_ soon.
(This is also music straddling 20th/21st centuries, if that matters.)
Clearly I should've paid more attention at some point, but I confess
to being put off by purely electronic music until relatively recently,
and then basically forcing myself to listen. But I've become more
receptive. It's still strange to me to think of fiddling with
command lines & dials as "working directly with sound itself"
though.... (I think of it more as working directly with wires &
plastic.)

Glad to hear it!

It's funny, I was pretty much put off by non-electronic music (or I guess more accurately, any music purporting to be 'a recording of a performance', as opposed to clearly being assembled from disparate bits of audio) up until a few years ago, and similarly had to force myself to listen to any of the classical or traditional music that now takes up most of my attention. Initially out of an interest in context and history...

Even now, what seems intuitive to me is either treating 'the track' entirely as a canvas for editing, manipulating, and recombining sound, per Bayle et al, OR treating 'the track' as: pressing 'record', and capturing one-take live audio from a performer. Anything in between, like a pop song with the impression of being 'a performance' but undoubtedly assembled from many sources, tends to seem arbitrary or disingenuous, even manipulative, at least initially. It's taken me a long time to accept classical solo piano recordings, for example, as a performer kind of self-directedly and retrospectively assembling takes towards an intellectual conception of a piece... or something like that

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
Even now, what seems intuitive to me is either treating 'the track'
entirely as a canvas for editing, manipulating, and recombining
sound, per Bayle et al, OR treating 'the track' as: pressing
'record', and capturing one-take live audio from a performer.
Anything in between, like a pop song with the impression of being
'a performance' but undoubtedly assembled from many sources, tends
to seem arbitrary or disingenuous, even manipulative, at least
initially.

Yes.... I found purely electronic music off-putting in terms of
how to evaluate it, the choices involved, starting with creating
one's own sounds & timbres.... And although I've reviewed some
relatively heavily edited music in the general post-jazz space, I
also feel at least somewhat uncomfortable with anything that doesn't
seem like a "straight" recording.... This is ultimately all about
positioning the human element.

[Mandryka]

Post by cheregi
Even now, what seems intuitive to me is either treating 'the track'
entirely as a canvas for editing, manipulating, and recombining
sound, per Bayle et al, OR treating 'the track' as: pressing
'record', and capturing one-take live audio from a performer.
Anything in between, like a pop song with the impression of being
'a performance' but undoubtedly assembled from many sources, tends
to seem arbitrary or disingenuous, even manipulative, at least
initially.

Yes.... I found purely electronic music off-putting in terms of
how to evaluate it, the choices involved, starting with creating
one's own sounds & timbres.... And although I've reviewed some
relatively heavily edited music in the general post-jazz space, I
also feel at least somewhat uncomfortable with anything that doesn't
seem like a "straight" recording.... This is ultimately all about
positioning the human element.

Electronic music gives the composer control over the instrument. The composer defines and creates the instrument. In a sense it's an extension of total serialism, where the composer specifies timbre, rhythm, pitch, duration etc.

[cheregi]

Post by Mandryka
In a sense it's an extension of total serialism, where the composer specifies timbre, rhythm, pitch, duration etc.

I would never have thought of it this way but you're totally right...

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi

Post by Mandryka
In a sense it's an extension of total serialism, where the composer
specifies timbre, rhythm, pitch, duration etc.

I would never have thought of it this way but you're totally right...

One thing that's changed quite a bit, albeit gradually, is the sort
of timbres developed & used in electronic music -- versus 30-40
years ago when I decided I didn't want to focus there. Timbre has
become more of a focus in new music in general during that time,
but "traditional" instruments already had pleasant/interesting (&
diverse...) timbres!

[Mandryka]

Post by Todd M. McComb
A sort of niche label I've been following for a little while now
is Bastille Musique, mostly WDR & related performers.... Actually,
I first learned of this label here on RMCR, with their Berio set
released in 2019....
Most recent set is devoted to Hugues Dufourt (b.1943), another
French spectral composer. (I believe the previous release I noted
here was that for Grisey. In both cases, most of the material has
already appeared on record, but these sets have ample notes & a
quality approach across a broader program.) And what "spectral"
basically means is that the music uses the overtone spectrum, i.e.
pure ratios.
https://bastillemusique.bandcamp.com/album/hugues-dufourt-surgir
As with Grisey, Dufourt also uses the piano heavily, such that these
pure spectra are wedded to chromatic scales. As noted, I'm kind
of ready to move past the piano.... And the Dufourt collection
goes on to include pieces based on electric guitars as well... with
no piano, sort of shimmering waves. These pieces are less like
"classical music" but more intriguing to me. The "classical" pieces
are appealing enough too.

I've been trying Dufourt's L'atelier rouge - but it's so intense that it makes me feel uneasy. Another day maybe.

L'atelier rouge is an interesting picture I think. Next time I'm in NYC I'll make time to see it.

[Todd M. McComb]

Belatedly listening to a few things from Phil Niblock (1933-2024)
after his death last month....

E.g.
https://moderecords.bandcamp.com/album/brazil-84-audio
https://unsounds.bandcamp.com/album/looking-for-daniel

Niblock was a mentor for one of my favorite younger composers,
Catherine Lamb (who I've mentioned here a few times...).

[Paul Goodman]

I just started listening to a Chicago Symphony Orchestra recording;
“Contemporary American Composers,” conducted by Ricardo Muti. Composers
highlighted are Jessie Montgomery, Max Raimi (member of the CSO string
section) and Philip Glass.

—
Paul Goodman

[Todd M. McComb]

Today is, kind of randomly, an album called _My Microtonal Piano_
from pianist Sanae Yoshida: It's contemporary music that involves
retuning the piano, a variety....

It's released on Lawo Classics earlier this year, and on the main
streaming services.

[Oscar]

I have made plans to attend the February recital in the long-running Piano Spheres series. This one will be held at the 2020 Arts & Archives Venue in Westlake neighborhood of Los Angeles. Tickets are $25, and $15 for seniors and students. Vicki Ray is the pianist, and the program, titled Nacht und Träume, is as follows:

Nacht und Träume – Schubert
Unofficial Dreams – Beetz
Book of Beasts – Meites
The Perilous Night – Cage
Nacht – Berg
Intermezzo: December 28, 2020, After midnight – McIntosh
Liminal Landscape – Bill Alves

Is anyone familiar with the music of Rachel Beetz, Andrew McIntosh, Noah Meites and Bill Alves? McComb??

<< Pianist Vicki Ray presents Nacht und Träume – an evening that explores liminal states of consciousness through the music of Cage, Schubert and Berg alongside new works by Rachel Beetz, Andrew McIntosh, Noah Meites and Bill Alves. Using different keyboards, Ray – with guest soprano Elissa Johnston – will probe the territories of night and dreams using piano, prepared piano, synthesizer along with video and electronics. >>

[Todd M. McComb]

Is anyone familiar with the music of Rachel Beetz, Andrew McIntosh,
Noah Meites and Bill Alves? McComb??

Familiar I'm not, but I've heard at least Alves on a program....

[Mandryka]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Today is, kind of randomly, an album called _My Microtonal Piano_
from pianist Sanae Yoshida: It's contemporary music that involves
retuning the piano, a variety....
It's released on Lawo Classics earlier this year, and on the main
streaming services.

How about microtonal harpsichord? Music written by someone who teaches at Schola Cantorum Basiliensis

[cheregi]

Post by Todd M. McComb

Post by cheregi

Post by Mandryka
In a sense it's an extension of total serialism, where the composer
specifies timbre, rhythm, pitch, duration etc.

I would never have thought of it this way but you're totally right...

One thing that's changed quite a bit, albeit gradually, is the sort
of timbres developed & used in electronic music -- versus 30-40
years ago when I decided I didn't want to focus there. Timbre has
become more of a focus in new music in general during that time,
but "traditional" instruments already had pleasant/interesting (&
diverse...) timbres!

This reminds me of Radigue saying something to the effect of, the only reason she got into the ARP 2500 was because she could not find or imagine real instrumentalists doing the kinds of things she wanted, and she made the switch to writing for humans because now there's so much more of that kind of thing around. So I guess both electronic music AND live musicians have made progress in this area...

Post by Todd M. McComb
How about microtonal harpsichord? Music written by someone who teaches at Schola Cantorum Basiliensis
http://youtu.be/J-EqDl-gHN0

I can't believe they really rebuilt the thing. Sounds really fun to play around with. I'm imagining the xenharmonic stream and the HIP stream of 'classical-ish' musicians combining into a weird new hyper-accelerated archaic-future avant-garde. I'm not sure I like that image...

[cheregi]

Post by cheregi

Post by Todd M. McComb

Post by cheregi

Post by Mandryka
In a sense it's an extension of total serialism, where the composer
specifies timbre, rhythm, pitch, duration etc.

I would never have thought of it this way but you're totally right...

One thing that's changed quite a bit, albeit gradually, is the sort
of timbres developed & used in electronic music -- versus 30-40
years ago when I decided I didn't want to focus there. Timbre has
become more of a focus in new music in general during that time,
but "traditional" instruments already had pleasant/interesting (&
diverse...) timbres!

This reminds me of Radigue saying something to the effect of, the only reason she got into the ARP 2500 was because she could not find or imagine real instrumentalists doing the kinds of things she wanted, and she made the switch to writing for humans because now there's so much more of that kind of thing around. So I guess both electronic music AND live musicians have made progress in this area...

Post by Todd M. McComb
How about microtonal harpsichord? Music written by someone who teaches at Schola Cantorum Basiliensis
http://youtu.be/J-EqDl-gHN0

I can't believe they really rebuilt the thing. Sounds really fun to play around with. I'm imagining the xenharmonic stream and the HIP stream of 'classical-ish' musicians combining into a weird new hyper-accelerated archaic-future avant-garde. I'm not sure I like that image...

Anyway, will you two be migrating to wherever other people are suggesting this group move?

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
Anyway, will you two be migrating to wherever other people are
suggesting this group move?

Me? No, I'm a long-time Usenet person, and I'll be staying here
on Usenet. I have no fondness for Google.

[Todd M. McComb]

I'm a long-time Usenet person, and I'll be staying here on Usenet.

This is also my real email address, and of course there is my web
site, which would be updated if contact information were to change....
(I'll be changing my physical address in the next few months, but
not online addresses.)

[cheregi]

Post by cheregi
Anyway, will you two be migrating to wherever other people are
suggesting this group move?

Me? No, I'm a long-time Usenet person, and I'll be staying here
on Usenet. I have no fondness for Google.

I thought that we were being informed that that wouldn't be an option!

I guess what's really happening is someone like me who posts via groups.google.com is now obligated to switch to a different... client? app? whatever the term is?

[Notsure01]

Post by cheregi

Post by cheregi
Anyway, will you two be migrating to wherever other people are
suggesting this group move?

Me? No, I'm a long-time Usenet person, and I'll be staying here
on Usenet. I have no fondness for Google.

I thought that we were being informed that that wouldn't be an option!
I guess what's really happening is someone like me who posts via
groups.google.com is now obligated to switch to a different... client? app?
whatever the term is?

Hi cheregi! Usenet is an ancient system that allows users to create discussion
groups such as RMCR. It was created by computer professionals in 1980 and has
a less friendly interface compared to what is available today, so Google
provided a way to conveniently access Usenet through their Google Groups
interface which follows the interface conventions folks are used to these
days.

For whatever reason, Google will no longer support full access to Usenet as of
the 22nd - old posts will still appear through Google Groups but no new
threads or posts will be there - so there will be no ability to start topics
or reply.

In order to continue access, you will need to acquire a separate app on your
PC or phone that allows access to Usenet - this is called a client. You will
also need to configure the client to point to a Usenet server.

There are many Usenet servers, some of them allow free access, but most have a
monthly charge. sci.space created a separate thread which provides more
detail: "OT - Replacement for Google Groups, recommendations?"

I'm going to now post this explanation there - please feel free to reply there
with any or all questions you have!

And thank you for all of your well written posts on early music, world music,
and contemporary music - the dialog between you and Todd is definitely one of
the highlights of RMCR!

[cheregi]

Post by Notsure01

Post by cheregi

Post by cheregi
Anyway, will you two be migrating to wherever other people are
suggesting this group move?

Me? No, I'm a long-time Usenet person, and I'll be staying here
on Usenet. I have no fondness for Google.

I thought that we were being informed that that wouldn't be an option!
I guess what's really happening is someone like me who posts via
groups.google.com is now obligated to switch to a different... client? app?
whatever the term is?

Hi cheregi! Usenet is an ancient system that allows users to create discussion
groups such as RMCR. It was created by computer professionals in 1980 and has
a less friendly interface compared to what is available today, so Google
provided a way to conveniently access Usenet through their Google Groups
interface which follows the interface conventions folks are used to these
days.
For whatever reason, Google will no longer support full access to Usenet as of
the 22nd - old posts will still appear through Google Groups but no new
threads or posts will be there - so there will be no ability to start topics
or reply.
In order to continue access, you will need to acquire a separate app on your
PC or phone that allows access to Usenet - this is called a client. You will
also need to configure the client to point to a Usenet server.
There are many Usenet servers, some of them allow free access, but most have a
monthly charge. sci.space created a separate thread which provides more
detail: "OT - Replacement for Google Groups, recommendations?"
I'm going to now post this explanation there - please feel free to reply there
with any or all questions you have!

Hi, thanks so much for this - some of it I knew already, much of it I didn't.

Post by Notsure01
And thank you for all of your well written posts on early music, world music,
and contemporary music - the dialog between you and Todd is definitely one of
the highlights of RMCR!

I appreciate that a lot! Glad to hear!

[Todd M. McComb]

Post by cheregi
So I guess both electronic music AND live musicians have made
progress in this area...

Yes, and I think that timbre on acoustic instruments was probably
advanced as well by the electronic explorations... forcing people
to consider the details of it.

[Dan Koren]

Stockhausen Helicopter String Quartet

[Graham]

Post by Dan Koren
Stockhausen Helicopter String Quartet
http://youtu.be/13D1YY_BvWU

Crap!

[PPeso]

Post by Dan Koren
Stockhausen Helicopter String Quartet
http://youtu.be/13D1YY_BvWU

Crap!

More to the point, not acceptable in this thread. Was written in 1993
and first performed in 1995.

[Dan Koren]

Post by PPeso

Post by Dan Koren
Stockhausen Helicopter String Quartet
http://youtu.be/13D1YY_BvWU

Crap!

More to the point, not acceptable in this thread.
Was written in 1993 and first performed in 1995.

Indeed, but Stockhausen was 100 years ahead of
the time. He still is ;-)

Cheers

[Dan Koren]

Post by Dan Koren
Stockhausen Helicopter String Quartet
http://youtu.be/13D1YY_BvWU

Crap!

No one has suggested you should fly in one! ;-)

Cheers

[Todd M. McComb]

One-of-a-kind Australian violinist Jon Rose, attempting to record
the wind:

https://room40.bandcamp.com/album/aeolian-tendency

Rose has designed & built many instruments over the years. These
recordings are from a couple of combined volume & string resonators
made to be activated by wind....

(Rose has previously built e.g. a bicycle that he rides as a sort
of hurdy-gurdy.... Various things.)

[Todd M. McComb]

Eclectic collection by various composers (including Cage, Grisey, Scelsi...)
titled _Music for Trumpets, Bass Clarinets & Saxophones_:

https://chriscundy.bandcamp.com/album/music-for-trumpets-bass-clarinets-saxophones

Very precise playing. A world of color from horns. This label
doesn't usually release to streaming, but one of the clarinet players
has it on his own site now....

[Raymond Hall]

Post by Todd M. McComb
Eclectic collection by various composers (including Cage, Grisey, Scelsi...)
https://chriscundy.bandcamp.com/album/music-for-trumpets-bass-clarinets-saxophones
Very precise playing. A world of color from horns. This label
doesn't usually release to streaming, but one of the clarinet players
has it on his own site now....

Have just pounced for Rach's Symphonic Dances, and The Bells, with
Jansons, Bav RSO. This is mostly to include The Bells which I had on LP
with Previn/LSO. Most versions of the Dances are good, but Ashkenazy/RCO
is one of the better ones.

Ray Hall, Taree