Kertesz has the best Mozart Symphony 33 on record

[Zionazi]

Title sounds stupid... started it with "Kertesz with the best Mozart
Symphony 33" and then changed it to has... on record...

I was too lazy to post the links - which is why I changed it. You guys
should check it out.

[Zionazi]

oh Celibidache with KV 550 is ofc also one of my favs in Mozart --
Symphonies at least

[Zionazi]

No Brüggen and no Harnoncourt ofc - forgot to add

[Zionazi]

No Jacobs and no Suitner

[Zionazi]

Actually Böhm 25 sucks

[Zionazi]

Fuck... hope the order gets cancelled... placed it in amazon... I'll
probably just go for the his vienna box which I just found out about
now... also probably the best tito...

[vallor]

Just ordered it - very good. Wanted to let ya'll know.
As of yet my fav Mozart Symphony conducotrs seem to be: Krips and
Kertesz, and maybe also Dohnanyi... Karajan is not so bad actually...
no Kleibers, no Klemperer, no Furtwängler, maybe Vegh, no Szell, some
Bernstein was okay - should relisten, no Fricsay, no Böhm (his 25 - at
least the first movement I remember it not being too bad - with the
BPO), maybe Jochum?... hmmm...

Definitely not Klemperer -- I was listening to different
versions of Beethoven's 5th, 4th movement, on archive.org
recordings, and found his rendition to be veerrry sloooow...

It's almost like a durge compared to any other performance
I've heard. Didn't like it at all.

https://archive.org/details/lp_symphony-no-5_ludwig-van-beethoven-otto-klemperer-phi/disc1/02.01.+Symphony+No.+5+In+C+Minor%2C+Op.+67%3A+Third+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Fourth+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Presto.mp3

[Zionazi]

Post by vallor
Definitely not Klemperer -- I was listening to different
versions of Beethoven's 5th, 4th movement, on archive.org
recordings, and found his rendition to be veerrry sloooow...

I don't like his Beethoven either, but you shouldn't extrapolate like
this. In Mozart he is actually not so slow and in his younger years his
Beethoven was also quite different -- his conducting style was quite
different generally, much faster.

See some examples:

Mozart Symphony 25 - recorded 1956, but quite fast:

It's not my favorite though, I prefer Krips and Kertesz here.

Mozart Symphony 25 - recorded 1950; a bit faster it seems:

Beethoven Coriolan Ouverture 1957:

vs

Beethoven Coriolan Ouverture 1926:

Post by vallor
It's almost like a durge compared to any other performance
I've heard. Didn't like it at all.

To my ears tempo is not the problem here, or rather it becomes a problem
because of other factors -- I actually really like Celibidache's
Beethoven 5 which is even slower ;)

But my favorite Beethoven 5 is probably this one by Mengelberg:

I especially love how he does this part in the 4th movement (regarding
the 4th movement) -- starting at 29:38:

http://youtu.be/LkqKnyRdZy8

Post by vallor
https://archive.org/details/lp_symphony-no-5_ludwig-van-beethoven-otto-klemperer-phi/disc1/02.01.+Symphony+No.+5+In+C+Minor%2C+Op.+67%3A+Third+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Fourth+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Presto.mp3

[Zionazi]

WRT your vulcan hand picture... I don't really like Star Trek, and I
didn't watch much of it, but maybe - wrt Israel - one can think of Kira
Nerys:

Time for a less subtle approach:

https://tenor.com/de/view/star-trek-kira-nerys-nana-visitor-all-right-time-for-a-less-subtle-approach-gif-17743966

Dahkur Resistance!

[Zionazi]

Regarding your vulcan hand picture... I don't like Star Trek and didn't
see much of it, but wrt Israel maybe one can think of Kira Nerys:

Time for a less subtle approach:

https://tenor.com/de/view/star-trek-kira-nerys-nana-visitor-all-right-time-for-a-less-subtle-approach-gif-17743966

Dahkur Resistance!

[vallor]

Post by Zionazi
Regarding your vulcan hand picture... I don't like Star Trek and didn't
https://tenor.com/de/view/star-trek-kira-nerys-nana-visitor-all-right-

time-for-a-less-subtle-approach-gif-17743966

Post by Zionazi
Dahkur Resistance!

What does Star Trek, the Vulcan salute, and
the wish that you "Live Long and Prosper" have to
do with Israel?

And I must say, I don't think I've had anyone ever comment
on my X-Face in such an...unusual...manner...

But thank you for the discussion about Klemperer.

[Zionazi]

Post by Zionazi

Post by Zionazi
Regarding your vulcan hand picture... I don't like Star Trek and didn't
https://tenor.com/de/view/star-trek-kira-nerys-nana-visitor-all-right-

time-for-a-less-subtle-approach-gif-17743966

Post by Zionazi
Dahkur Resistance!

What does Star Trek, the Vulcan salute, and
the wish that you "Live Long and Prosper" have to
do with Israel?

The Vulcan salute ain’t got nothing to do with; if you actually bothered
to read what I wrote you would have realized I was making a reference to
Israel using the character Kira Nerys— taken from Wikipedia:

„ She was a member of the resistance, and the decades-long conflict has
left her tough and uncompromising, but she is sustained by her strong
faith in traditional Bajoran religion.“

I think the times are quite harsh now wrt Israel and I just thought of
this and thought I’d share it. Resistance against fucking antisemitism —
especially Islamic antisemitism these days.

Post by Zionazi
And I must say, I don't think I've had anyone ever comment
on my X-Face in such an...unusual...manner...

Do you like it now that you’ve understood it? ;)

I can see why you might have found it unusual… it was just a free
association I had regarding your avatar, current state of affairs
regarding Israel and the climate here

Post by Zionazi
But thank you for the discussion about Klemperer.

[Zionazi]

Hah — it seems the bajoran people in Star Trek were actually inspired by
Jews….

So my association was quite on point in fact:

„The Bajorans were introduced in the TNG episode "Ensign Ro" as an
obvious stand-in for oppressed minorities, specifically European Jews
during World War II.“

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-ds9-religion-bajor-revolutionary/#:~:text=Recasting%20Star%20Trek%3A%20DS9%20For%20A%20Movie%20Reboot&text=The%20Bajorans%20were%20introduced%20in,Jews%20during%20World%20War%20II.

[Zionazi]

Fucking hell... this star trek fan vallor knows fucking shit about the
vulcan handsign... so let me help him out:

"People don't realize they're blessing each other"

[Zionazi]

*forgot to add the title of the linked vid:

Live Long and Prosper: The Jewish Story Behind Spock, Leonard Nimoy's
Star Trek

[Zionazi]

*Nimoy's Star Trek Character

[Zionazi]

Hmm in Mozart 33 he actually still seems to be the best… I mean Kertész

[Zionazi]

Hmm no it’s probably krips‘… the best 33

[Zionazi]

Dohnanyi is not bad… but I’m not convinced…

Best Mozart symphony 38 is probably - very likely - the one by
Bernstein and the VPO…

Certainly no Böhm, no Karajan, no krips, no hip, no dohnanyi, no
Klemperer in 38… should listen a bit more to Bernstein probably… I might
ditch krips in the Mozart symphonies let’s see…

Celibidache, Bernstein and e. Kleiber (him at least in 33, afair I was
not so impressed with his 39… but will relisten) seem to be more to my
liking… and I should check Kubelik and fricsay again…

[Zionazi]

Yeah I’m done with krips in the Mozart symphonies

Bernstein so far my fav in 29, 38
Celibidache in 40 (should check his others again)
E. Kleiber in 33
Maag in 32

Probably fricsay in 41 - or Bernstein

[Zionazi]

And probably E Kleiber or Bernstein in 36

[vallor]

Post by Zionazi
Fucking hell... this star trek fan vallor knows fucking shit about the
http://youtu.be/DyiWkWcR86I
"People don't realize they're blessing each other"

I know where Nimoy got it from.

Why are you constantly trying to start a beef over it?

[Zionazi]

Post by vallor

Post by Zionazi
Fucking hell... this star trek fan vallor knows fucking shit about the
http://youtu.be/DyiWkWcR86I
"People don't realize they're blessing each other"

I know where Nimoy got it from.

Good, I didn’t — but if I did, my thoughts wandering off to Israel
would’ve been even more on point — considering what Israel is facing
right now.

Post by vallor
Why are you constantly trying to start a beef over it?

Huh? Didn’t want to start any beef yo — the stuff about „this Star Trek
fan“ was obviously written in jest… look at the context

[Zionazi]

Post by vallor

Post by Zionazi
Fucking hell... this star trek fan vallor knows fucking shit about the
http://youtu.be/DyiWkWcR86I
"People don't realize they're blessing each other"

I know where Nimoy got it from.
Why are you constantly trying to start a beef over it?

Just reread the shite you wrote…

Quote:
„ > What does Star Trek, the Vulcan salute, and

Post by vallor
the wish that you "Live Long and Prosper" have to
do with Israel?“

If you know where nimoy got it from, why this stupid question? God… so
many stupid people in this world…

[Roland van Gaalen]

Post by vallor

Just ordered it - very good. Wanted to let ya'll know.
As of yet my fav Mozart Symphony conducotrs seem to be: Krips and
Kertesz, and maybe also Dohnanyi... Karajan is not so bad actually...
no Kleibers, no Klemperer, no Furtwängler, maybe Vegh, no Szell, some
Bernstein was okay - should relisten, no Fricsay, no Böhm (his 25 - at
least the first movement I remember it not being too bad - with the
BPO), maybe Jochum?... hmmm...

Definitely not Klemperer -- I was listening to different
versions of Beethoven's 5th, 4th movement, on archive.org
recordings, and found his rendition to be veerrry sloooow...
It's almost like a durge compared to any other performance
I've heard. Didn't like it at all.
https://archive.org/details/lp_symphony-no-5_ludwig-van-beethoven-otto-klemperer-phi/disc1/02.01.+Symphony+No.+5+In+C+Minor%2C+Op.+67%3A+Third+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Fourth+Movement%3A+Allegro+-+Presto.mp3

Klemperer in 1956

[Somebody posted this here many years ago; I don't remember who]
--
Roland van Gaalen
The Netherlands

[Zionazi]

So far it seems that Celibidache, Krips, Kertész and Dohnanyi are the
best in Mozart Symphonies... probably going to get myself the Kertész'
Vienna Box and the Dohnanyi Box as well -- as there further is some good
Schubert (Kertész) and some good Schönberg (Dohnanyi) amongst other
stuff that is interesting...

[Zionazi]

Actually reconsidering my notion about Kertesz 33; maybe Kleiber is
better, and Fricsay too (generally speaking) - probably even Klemperer
is better... Kertesz sound is just too thick, and heavy, too much
vibrato... hmmm... the hip-guys didn't impress me in Mozart generally -
which is why I'm actually considering ditching the Östman Mozart Opera
recordings...

[Pluted Pup]

Just ordered it - very good. Wanted to let ya'll know.

Just ordered what? Is it Kertesz in Vienna, 20 CDs?

It's best to put some sort of signal of what
you are talking about in your first post,
because you'll soon tire of the idea before
you even receive the package.

As of yet my fav Mozart Symphony conducotrs seem to be: Krips and
Kertesz, and maybe also Dohnanyi... Karajan is not so bad actually...
no Kleibers, no Klemperer, no Furtwängler, maybe Vegh, no Szell, some
Bernstein was okay - should relisten, no Fricsay, no Böhm (his 25 - at
least the first movement I remember it not being too bad - with the
BPO), maybe Jochum?... hmmm...

[Zionazi]

Post by Pluted Pup

Just ordered it - very good. Wanted to let ya'll know.

Just ordered what? Is it Kertesz in Vienna, 20 CDs?
It's best to put some sort of signal of what
you are talking about in your first post,
because you'll soon tire of the idea before
you even receive the package.

You’re funny