Discussion:
Arnaldo Cohen
(too old to reply)
Lenya Ryzhik
2004-10-18 04:48:40 UTC
Permalink
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Lenya
Raymond Hall
2004-10-18 05:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
There is a pretty stunning display of pianism on Naxos, Vol I of the
complete piano music of Liszt. The longest pieces include Danse macabre
(from Saint-Saens), Reminiscences des Huguenots, and Totentanz.

Ray H
Taree
Thomas Wood
2004-10-18 05:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
There is a pretty stunning display of pianism on Naxos, Vol I of the
complete piano music of Liszt. The longest pieces include Danse macabre
(from Saint-Saens), Reminiscences des Huguenots, and Totentanz.
That is my favorite Liszt CD -- Cohen is stunning. I definintely want to
hear more of him.

Tom Wood
Wayne Reimer
2004-10-18 05:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
There is a pretty stunning display of pianism on Naxos, Vol I of the
complete piano music of Liszt. The longest pieces include Danse macabre
(from Saint-Saens), Reminiscences des Huguenots, and Totentanz.
I'd agree with that. You can also get a fine recording he did of the same
Brahms variations you heard, together with the Schumann Fantasy in C and
Arabesque, on Vox. However, although it's very good, I don't think it conveys
the marvellous luminous and transparent quality that Cohen can provide in
concert. Plus, his exceedingly refined sensibility doesn't meet the
expectations some folks have of blood, thunder, and hair-tossing rubato in the
Schumann (mind you, I like that way of playing it, but think Cohen's approach
has a lot to offer, too).

wr
Bob Harper
2004-10-18 13:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
There is a pretty stunning display of pianism on Naxos, Vol I of the
complete piano music of Liszt. The longest pieces include Danse macabre
(from Saint-Saens), Reminiscences des Huguenots, and Totentanz.
I'd agree with that. You can also get a fine recording he did of the same
Brahms variations you heard, together with the Schumann Fantasy in C and
Arabesque, on Vox. However, although it's very good, I don't think it conveys
the marvellous luminous and transparent quality that Cohen can provide in
concert. Plus, his exceedingly refined sensibility doesn't meet the
expectations some folks have of blood, thunder, and hair-tossing rubato in the
Schumann (mind you, I like that way of playing it, but think Cohen's approach
has a lot to offer, too).
wr
Mr. Reimer and I have disagreed about some other things, but I can only
endorse his view of Arnaldo Cohen. I had the opportunity to hear him in
Portland last year (Brahms Handel Variations and Chopin Scherzi), and it
was a stunning display of virtuousity in the service of music. He's
coming again this year (Liszt and Chopin), and you can bet I'll be there.

Bob Harper
Simon Roberts
2004-10-18 18:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Mr. Reimer and I have disagreed about some other things, but I can only
endorse his view of Arnaldo Cohen. I had the opportunity to hear him in
Portland last year (Brahms Handel Variations and Chopin Scherzi), and it
was a stunning display of virtuousity in the service of music. He's
coming again this year (Liszt and Chopin), and you can bet I'll be there.
I would be too; the only CD he's made of music I care about (the Vox
Schumann/Brahms) is a rather pale imitation of what he's like live; the
Chopin/Brahms/Schoenberg concert he gave here a season or two ago was stunning.

Simon
Steve Emerson
2004-10-18 16:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
I'd agree with that. You can also get a fine recording he did of the same
Brahms variations you heard, together with the Schumann Fantasy in C and
Arabesque, on Vox. However, although it's very good, I don't think it
conveys the marvellous luminous and transparent quality that Cohen can
provide in concert.
I agree with Wayne -- I think Cohen is a little more interesting than the
highly competent Vox disc suggests. I like his recording of Brazilian music on
BIS; the works are meritorious but not major.

SE.
Wayne Reimer
2004-10-19 05:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
I'd agree with that. You can also get a fine recording he did of the same
Brahms variations you heard, together with the Schumann Fantasy in C and
Arabesque, on Vox. However, although it's very good, I don't think it
conveys the marvellous luminous and transparent quality that Cohen can
provide in concert.
I agree with Wayne -- I think Cohen is a little more interesting than the
highly competent Vox disc suggests. I like his recording of Brazilian music on
BIS; the works are meritorious but not major.
I've not seen or heard it yet, but there's a newish BIS of Cohen that includes
the Liszt Sonata, Funérailles, Rhapsodie espagnole, and Vallée DŽObermann.
Looks interesting.

wr
Tom Deacon
2004-10-19 12:59:11 UTC
Permalink
On 10/19/04 1:11 AM, in article
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
I'd agree with that. You can also get a fine recording he did of the same
Brahms variations you heard, together with the Schumann Fantasy in C and
Arabesque, on Vox. However, although it's very good, I don't think it
conveys the marvellous luminous and transparent quality that Cohen can
provide in concert.
I agree with Wayne -- I think Cohen is a little more interesting than the
highly competent Vox disc suggests. I like his recording of Brazilian music on
BIS; the works are meritorious but not major.
I've not seen or heard it yet, but there's a newish BIS of Cohen that includes
the Liszt Sonata, Funérailles, Rhapsodie espagnole, and Vallée D´Obermann.
Looks interesting.
It has shown up in amazon.co.uk, but not in amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com
or, in Canada, at archambault.ca. Only appeared in the the UK on October 4,
so it is more than "newish", I would say.

As for "interesting", well, if you want yet another Liszt Sonata. Argh! And
his first recording of the work was so ordinary. Perhaps the Spanish
Rhapsody will save this disc?

TD
Dan Koren
2004-10-18 06:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.



dk
Tom Deacon
2004-10-18 10:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
The piece is trash. Almost unlistenable.

How Cohen plays, or played it, should really not be used to define his
pianism, which in my own experience is only adequate, bordering on boring.

To utter the name of Cziffra, on the other hand, is to speak the name of one
of the greatest pianists who ever lived.

Get a grip, Koren.

TD
Dan Koren
2004-10-18 13:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Dan Koren
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
The piece is trash. Almost unlistenable.
Only if you cannot play it.



dk
Al Harris
2004-10-18 14:17:12 UTC
Permalink
I have always regarded the Liszt Spanish Rhapsody as decidedly minor
Liszt-until I heard the new Arnaldo Cohen recording on BIS.
Spectacular pianism in the service of a work that is much stronger
than I had thought.
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Dan Koren
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
The piece is trash. Almost unlistenable.
How Cohen plays, or played it, should really not be used to define his
pianism, which in my own experience is only adequate, bordering on boring.
To utter the name of Cziffra, on the other hand, is to speak the name of one
of the greatest pianists who ever lived.
Get a grip, Koren.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-10-18 14:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Harris
I have always regarded the Liszt Spanish Rhapsody as decidedly minor
Liszt-until I heard the new Arnaldo Cohen recording on BIS. Spectacular
pianism in the service of a work that is much stronger than I had
thought.
I have very much enjoyed Lazar Berman's recording on it, from an old
Melodiya-Columbia LP.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Dan Koren
2004-10-26 06:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Al Harris
I have always regarded the Liszt Spanish Rhapsody as decidedly minor
Liszt-until I heard the new Arnaldo Cohen recording on BIS. Spectacular
pianism in the service of a work that is much stronger than I had
thought.
I have very much enjoyed Lazar Berman's recording on it, from an old
Melodiya-Columbia LP.
The top performances are Cziffra (Italy live
1959), Berman (Budapest live 1956) and Cohen.


dk
arri bachrach
2004-10-18 16:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Dan Koren
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
The piece is trash. Almost unlistenable.
so are some of the comments. so what????
Post by Tom Deacon
How Cohen plays, or played it, should really not be used to define his
pianism, which in my own experience is only adequate, bordering on boring.
To utter the name of Cziffra, on the other hand, is to speak the name of one
of the greatest pianists who ever lived.
Get a grip, Koren.
TD
Koren.. this time TD is right, in spite of his many previous, flawed pronouncements

Heard Cohen in recital...he is very good but still nothing special.

AB
Jonathan Yungkans
2004-10-18 11:50:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
There is (was?) also a Carlton/IMP recording of the Scherzo & March,
Dante and B minor sonatas that was pretty spectacular.

jy
Tom Deacon
2004-10-18 12:21:06 UTC
Permalink
On 10/18/04 7:50 AM, in article
Post by Jonathan Yungkans
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
There is (was?) also a Carlton/IMP recording of the Scherzo & March,
Dante and B minor sonatas that was pretty spectacular.
More like generic.

TD
Jonathan Yungkans
2004-10-25 11:44:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
On 10/18/04 7:50 AM, in article
Post by Jonathan Yungkans
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
The private live recording of
Liszt's Spanish Fantasy from a
recital he gave in the US (or
was that South America?). It
is almost as good as Cziffra.
There is (was?) also a Carlton/IMP recording of the Scherzo & March,
Dante and B minor sonatas that was pretty spectacular.
More like generic.
He seemed to handle the Scherzo & March better than Horowitz did.
Generically, of course,
Peter Schenkman
2004-10-18 12:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Lenya
Vox 7539 has the following

Brahms: Handel Variations
Schumann: Fantasia and Arabesque

Peter Schenkman
Carl Tait
2004-10-18 17:43:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:48:40 -0500,
Post by Lenya Ryzhik
After very much enjoying a concert that Arnaldo Cohen gave in Chicago
[Bach/Busoni Ciaccona, Brahms Haendel Variations and Chopin preludes]
replacing the Schiffs/Perenyi trio, I wonder which of his recordings are
particularly recommendable. Any suggestions?
Other posters have already provided plenty of good recommendations, so I'll
just add that Cohen is one of the most interesting pianists performing
today. He has both poetry and virtuosity, as well as a fine musical
intelligence. His interpretations are thoughtful yet spontaneous, which is
a welcome combination.

I've heard Cohen three times in concert, and only his Debussy Images were
disappointing -- but they were the opening work on a recital that included
a monumental reading of the Liszt Sonata. (I don't care for much of
Liszt's music, but Cohen's advocacy is about as persuasive as it gets.)

- Carl Tait
Tony
2004-10-19 19:16:18 UTC
Permalink
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
Dan Koren
2004-10-19 20:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
You take it wrong.

Arnaldo Cohen lives in London.




dk
Lenya Ryzhik
2004-10-20 04:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
You take it wrong.
Arnaldo Cohen lives in London.
dk
Absolutely, in the Bloomington neighborhood. I gather from other responses
that he is more fascinating live (he was fantastic in Chicago) than on
recordings - thanks to all who replied. I guess I'll try the Brazilian CD
anyway.

Lenya
Andrys Basten
2004-10-30 14:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
You take it wrong.
Arnaldo Cohen lives in London.
Well, he used to, but he accepted a position at Indiana University
and is teaching in the U.S. (I think this happened about 6 months
ago but I don't remember).

- Andrys
--
http://andrys.com
Tom Deacon
2004-10-19 21:36:41 UTC
Permalink
On 10/19/04 3:16 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
I spoke to him once. He was living in London.

TD
Tony
2004-10-20 08:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
On 10/19/04 3:16 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
I spoke to him once. He was living in London.
TD
I've never seen his name on a recital list so presumed he was
North/South American based. Good to hear otherwise.
Dan Koren
2004-10-20 09:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tom Deacon
On 10/19/04 3:16 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
I spoke to him once. He was living in London.
I've never seen his name on a recital list so presumed
he was North/South American based. Good to hear otherwise.
He also reads this ng. Sometimes.



dk
Tom Deacon
2004-10-20 10:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Tony
Post by Tom Deacon
On 10/19/04 3:16 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
I spoke to him once. He was living in London.
I've never seen his name on a recital list so presumed
he was North/South American based. Good to hear otherwise.
He also reads this ng. Sometimes.
You mean he's a "lurker"?

TD
Tony
2004-10-23 18:23:14 UTC
Permalink
I picked up a used copy of Cohen's new BIS disc this morning (long
live London CD shops). For me it's a disappointment. Well played,
lovely tone, complete understanding throughout; however the B minor
dangerously lacks imagination and excitement and consequently is
pretty boring. I think Vallee d'Obermann comes out best but even that
isn't up with the big names (Arrau, Berman) and some parts are oddly
wilful and overly emphatic. TD wins this one with 'generic'.
Tom Deacon
2004-10-23 20:12:07 UTC
Permalink
On 10/23/04 2:23 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I picked up a used copy of Cohen's new BIS disc this morning (long
live London CD shops). For me it's a disappointment. Well played,
lovely tone, complete understanding throughout; however the B minor
dangerously lacks imagination and excitement and consequently is
pretty boring. I think Vallee d'Obermann comes out best but even that
isn't up with the big names (Arrau, Berman) and some parts are oddly
wilful and overly emphatic. TD wins this one with 'generic'.
Didn't know we were in a race.

But I have not heard this CD, as I have said repeatedly. My comments are
only based on previous experience of this pianist. And I would doubt that he
was capable of altering his style so quickly and in music he had already put
on record so as to alter my previous perceptions of his abilities as an
interpreter of Liszt's music.

That said, I don't quite understand how the lack of imagination and
excitement can possibly "dangerous". Dangerous to whom, I wonder, or to
what. Liszt's sonata? Have no fear. The score survives quite nicely, thank
you. A simple reading of it will provide you all the excitement you could
ask for and trigger lots of imagination at the same time.

TD
Tony
2004-10-24 17:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
That said, I don't quite understand how the lack of imagination and
excitement can possibly "dangerous".
Dangerous as in falling asleep while driving.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at by mentioning the score, but
I bought the CD because I want to hear the music rather than read it.
I see now the latter in this case would have been more thought
provoking.
Wayne Reimer
2004-10-21 04:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tom Deacon
On 10/19/04 3:16 PM, in article
Post by Tony
I take it he rarely if ever comes to the UK? Ever since hearing his
Liszt/Naxos CD--which I no longer keep because I don't care for the
music much--I've been hoping to hear more of him or preferably hear
him live.
I spoke to him once. He was living in London.
TD
I've never seen his name on a recital list so presumed he was
North/South American based. Good to hear otherwise.
I believe he's joining a faculty of a university in Indiana this fall; don't
know if that entails a move. He's doing a fair number of concerts in the US
this season, mostly in somewhat off the beaten path places like Kansas and
Fresno. There'll be a webcast of his concert this month with the Fort Worth
Symphony that features the Strauss Burleske and a rarity, the Concerto in
Brazilian Forms by Hekel Tavares; the webcast is Nov. 26 at wrr101.com at 9 pm
central time.

wr
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