Discussion:
Bernstein Sony Beethoven recordings remastered
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Randy Lane
2019-08-31 16:56:12 UTC
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Saw on Amazon.de today.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
John Fowler
2019-09-01 11:22:14 UTC
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Judging by the photo, it includes both recordings of the 7th Symphony + Missa Solemnis (on one CD) + Overtures,
but does not include the Piano Concerti (played by Serkin, Gould and Bernstein himself) or the Violin Concerto (Stern).
Not sure if it includes the Choral Fantasy (Serkin) or the second recording of Leonore No.3 Overture (Carnegie Hall)
John Fowler
2019-09-01 11:24:32 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Judging by the photo, it includes both recordings of the 7th Symphony
+ Missa Solemnis (on one CD) + Overtures,
Post by John Fowler
but does not include the Piano Concerti (played by Serkin, Gould and Bernstein himself) or the Violin Concerto (Stern).
Not sure if it includes the Choral Fantasy (Serkin) or the second recording of Leonore No.3 Overture (Carnegie Hall)
Also not sure if the musical analyses of Symphonies 3 and 5 are included.
drh8h
2019-09-02 01:31:23 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Judging by the photo, it includes both recordings of the 7th Symphony + Missa Solemnis (on one CD) + Overtures,
but does not include the Piano Concerti (played by Serkin, Gould and Bernstein himself) or the Violin Concerto (Stern).
Not sure if it includes the Choral Fantasy (Serkin) or the second recording of Leonore No.3 Overture (Carnegie Hall)
Dimly visible on the box cover:

Symphonies/Overtures/Missa Solemnis
drh8h
2019-11-21 03:17:49 UTC
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Post by drh8h
Post by John Fowler
Judging by the photo, it includes both recordings of the 7th Symphony + Missa Solemnis (on one CD) + Overtures,
but does not include the Piano Concerti (played by Serkin, Gould and Bernstein himself) or the Violin Concerto (Stern).
Not sure if it includes the Choral Fantasy (Serkin) or the second recording of Leonore No.3 Overture (Carnegie Hall)
Symphonies/Overtures/Missa Solemnis
Just received it today. The 5th symphony discussion is there, but not the Eroica first movement analysis. A number of interesting photos I have never seen before.

Page 9: what are those boxes behind Bernstein on the record department shelves? Almost look like CD cases, but it's 1969.

Page 29: what is happening here? Is the violinist (Corigliano?) twirling his instrument or is Howard Scott throwing something?

Pages 36 & 37: A very wan and tired looking Bruno Walter appears to attempt a hit on Bernstein by stabbing him under his jacket. To enhance the effect, quite a huge stain is on L.B.s jacket for all the world looking like blood. Did he have a rough session with the orchestra? Would this possibly have been when Walter recorded Das Lied with the NYP. Date is given as April 1960.

DH
Not a Dentist
2019-11-21 05:03:16 UTC
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Post by drh8h
Post by drh8h
Post by John Fowler
Judging by the photo, it includes both recordings of the 7th Symphony + Missa Solemnis (on one CD) + Overtures,
but does not include the Piano Concerti (played by Serkin, Gould and Bernstein himself) or the Violin Concerto (Stern).
Not sure if it includes the Choral Fantasy (Serkin) or the second recording of Leonore No.3 Overture (Carnegie Hall)
Symphonies/Overtures/Missa Solemnis
Just received it today. The 5th symphony discussion is there, but not the Eroica first movement analysis.
Also newly available on Amazon Music, and on Naxos Music Library. It seems everything is a 2019 remastering, EXCEPT for the Symphonies Nos. 3 and 5, which show 2017 as the release date.
b***@gmail.com
2019-11-21 11:51:36 UTC
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How can you tell everything is a 2019 remastering? Nice as that might be, the box coyly refers to "remastered" without specifying a date and copyright 2019. Given the known 2017 remastering of at least some of these, I can't envision Sony doing yet another complete remastering after only two years. That would be nice, but I'm holding off until something definitive appears, like maybe info from the "credits" page in the back of the accompanying booklet.
drh8h
2019-11-21 13:06:13 UTC
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Post by b***@gmail.com
How can you tell everything is a 2019 remastering? Nice as that might be, the box coyly refers to "remastered" without specifying a date and copyright 2019. Given the known 2017 remastering of at least some of these, I can't envision Sony doing yet another complete remastering after only two years. That would be nice, but I'm holding off until something definitive appears, like maybe info from the "credits" page in the back of the accompanying booklet.
Three of the discs are remasterings previously issued in the Bernstein or NYP boxes. The new remasterings are credited to the usual Zinn/b-sharp group and acknowledged by a sticker on the wrapping. These discs I have listened to so far are definitely remasters. No one said they redid the 2017 remasterings, which are three of the ten discs. I think some people might not like the new discs, frankly, esp. the 1964 7th, but that is the only "Philharmonic Hall" taping of the group, so I have low expectations. Personally, they seem very "authentic" and present the performances and how they were recorded, warts and all. Brash and rough, just like L.B. was in those NY days.

DH
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-11-21 13:21:21 UTC
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Post by drh8h
Post by b***@gmail.com
How can you tell everything is a 2019 remastering? Nice as that might be, the box coyly refers to "remastered" without specifying a date and copyright 2019. Given the known 2017 remastering of at least some of these, I can't envision Sony doing yet another complete remastering after only two years. That would be nice, but I'm holding off until something definitive appears, like maybe info from the "credits" page in the back of the accompanying booklet.
Three of the discs are remasterings previously issued in the Bernstein or NYP boxes. The new remasterings are credited to the usual Zinn/b-sharp group and acknowledged by a sticker on the wrapping. These discs I have listened to so far are definitely remasters. No one said they redid the 2017 remasterings, which are three of the ten discs. I think some people might not like the new discs, frankly, esp. the 1964 7th, but that is the only "Philharmonic Hall" taping of the group, so I have low expectations. Personally, they seem very "authentic" and present the performances and how they were recorded, warts and all. Brash and rough, just like L.B. was in those NY days.
DH
also available in Hi-Res audio on Qobuz with a release date of Nov. 14
b***@gmail.com
2019-11-21 13:30:42 UTC
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Thanks. That clarifies it. Will get it.
John Fowler
2019-11-22 04:16:15 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
The Amazon Prime pre-order price was $46.95 on the day it was supposed to be shipped: November 19.
The Amazon Prime pre-order price was $41.88 on the day it actually shipped (November 20).
Guess how much I was charged.
John Fowler
2019-11-22 04:18:32 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
The Amazon Prime pre-order price was $46.95 on the day it was supposed to be shipped: November 19.
The Amazon Prime pre-order price was $41.88 on the day it actually shipped (November 21).
Guess how much I was charged.
Thornhill
2019-11-23 21:00:39 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
I'm genuinely curious just how many more sales Sony can squeeze out of yet another reissue, especially when there's another box with the symphonies available for $20 (sure, it doesn't have "Missa solemnis" or the latest remastering, but I imagine that casual buyers will go with the cheaper option).
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-11-23 23:12:56 UTC
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Post by Thornhill
Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
I'm genuinely curious just how many more sales Sony can squeeze out of yet another reissue, especially when there's another box with the symphonies available for $20 (sure, it doesn't have "Missa solemnis" or the latest remastering, but I imagine that casual buyers will go with the cheaper option).
I have a feeling Sony is going to do the entire Bernstein Columbia output again remastered and in Original jackets
John Fowler
2019-11-27 11:16:50 UTC
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Post by RANDY WOLFGANG
Post by Thornhill
Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
I'm genuinely curious just how many more sales Sony can squeeze out of yet another reissue, especially when there's another box with the symphonies available for $20 (sure, it doesn't have "Missa solemnis" or the latest remastering, but I imagine that casual buyers will go with the cheaper option).
I have a feeling Sony is going to do the entire Bernstein Columbia output again remastered and in Original jackets
Most likely candidates (now that they've done Beethoven, Mahler and Sibelius) would be Haydn and Tchaikovsky.
I'd buy them.
I just hope they don't forget anything.
drh8h
2019-11-27 13:33:05 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Post by RANDY WOLFGANG
Post by Thornhill
Post by Randy Lane
Saw on Amazon.de today.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WNKVHT2/
I'm genuinely curious just how many more sales Sony can squeeze out of yet another reissue, especially when there's another box with the symphonies available for $20 (sure, it doesn't have "Missa solemnis" or the latest remastering, but I imagine that casual buyers will go with the cheaper option).
I have a feeling Sony is going to do the entire Bernstein Columbia output again remastered and in Original jackets
Most likely candidates (now that they've done Beethoven, Mahler and Sibelius) would be Haydn and Tchaikovsky.
I'd buy them.
I just hope they don't forget anything.
In the JPC listing for the upcoming Farrell box is a reference to the Missa. I wonder if this might be the Lincoln Center opening night performance of the Gloria. Would not think it would be the whole piece again, but like Columbia, Sony has learned to recycle material over multiple issues. That excerpt has never to my knowledge been issued on CD in the West.

Dennis
wkasimer
2019-11-27 13:40:29 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Most likely candidates (now that they've done Beethoven, Mahler and Sibelius) would be Haydn and Tchaikovsky.
I doubt that they'll do the Haydn again:

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London-Symphonies-Schopfung-Masses/dp/B001TKK39S
drh8h
2019-11-27 14:21:46 UTC
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Post by wkasimer
Post by John Fowler
Most likely candidates (now that they've done Beethoven, Mahler and Sibelius) would be Haydn and Tchaikovsky.
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London-Symphonies-Schopfung-Masses/dp/B001TKK39S
Au contraire. Sony has quite a track record of issuing the same performances over and over. I agree with Mr. Fowler, if there are to be more, Tchaikovsky and Haydn are the best bets. They may even be in the planning stages already. Brahms another strong possibility.

DH

John Fowler
2019-11-25 15:14:59 UTC
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One surprise:
The forty-page booklet featuring an essay from an unexpected source: Karajan biographer Richard Osborne.
Osborne compares the New York and Vienna Philharmonics in Bernstein’s two Beethoven sets.
Surprisingly, he comes out in favor of New York:
“the [New York] Philharmonic never edited out Bernstein’s input, as a decade later the Vienna Philharmonic, protective of their long-established Beethoven tradition, was inclined to do.
Like their Austrian colleagues, the New Yorkers had been playing the Beethoven Symphonies since the 1840s. In New York, however, there was no danger of this famously iconoclastic orchestra treating the mighty nine as some sacred family heirloom.”
drh8h
2019-11-25 19:53:06 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
The forty-page booklet featuring an essay from an unexpected source: Karajan biographer Richard Osborne.
Osborne compares the New York and Vienna Philharmonics in Bernstein’s two Beethoven sets.
“the [New York] Philharmonic never edited out Bernstein’s input, as a decade later the Vienna Philharmonic, protective of their long-established Beethoven tradition, was inclined to do.
Like their Austrian colleagues, the New Yorkers had been playing the Beethoven Symphonies since the 1840s. In New York, however, there was no danger of this famously iconoclastic orchestra treating the mighty nine as some sacred family heirloom.”
I was highly annoyed at his swipes at Toscanini, esp. the Maestro's incomparable 7th and Missa Solemnis. True only the latter by omission and overpraising the 1951 Vox recording, but anyone who has heard the 1935 Missa might well know Klemperer, as great as he was, is eclipsed in that one.

Dennis
John Fowler
2019-11-26 11:38:10 UTC
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DG box: CD 116 track 11 is "first Alternate Improvised Introduction" to the Choral Fantasy Op.80, played by Robert Levin.
This is NOT a newly discovered sketch by Beethoven.
Levin has made a habit of improvising cadenzas to concerti, and apparently got carried away, substituting his improvisation for Beethoven's finished composition.
Levin plays Beethoven's version on CD 15
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