Discussion:
CHOICE...
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MELMOTH
2021-03-29 11:10:59 UTC
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(supersedes <6061b3e0$0$21611$***@news.free.fr>)

Ave, dear friends of rmcr...
Cornelian choice:
- the piano sonatas of LdVb by *Pollini*...

https://www.amazon.fr/Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B00NOB05ZW/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=beethoven+pollini&qid=1617015659&sr=8-2

- the string quartets of LdV by the *Guarneri*...

https://www.amazon.fr/Guarneri-Quartet-Plays-Beethoven/dp/B07VP78NPT/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=beethoven+guarneri&qid=1617015702&sr=8-1

I don't have any of these integrals...And I hesitate...
And you ?...What would you choose ?...

I have never been a Pollini fan... Is "his" Beethoven worth it ?...
Andy Evans
2021-03-29 11:51:03 UTC
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Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo piano repertoire.

Why don't you go on YouTube and listen to a few sets? If you enjoy YT you can make playlists so you get the best recordings of individual works.

I like some of the older style recordings like Edwin Fischer and original Vegh Qt.

For modern quartet readings try the Gewandhaus, Cleveland, Yale
MELMOTH
2021-03-29 14:18:00 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...

PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !
Henk vT
2021-03-29 15:29:51 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.

Henk
MELMOTH
2021-03-29 16:40:16 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Henk
I obviously have everything you mention!...And many others...
Well...I'm going to borrow from my bank and order Pollini AND Guarneri
!...
MELMOTH
2021-03-29 17:15:00 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As I
said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological mania
of "collecting" that stimulates me !... The Guarneri, I know them well
!...I think that the complete works I am quoting is their first
recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Henk
I obviously have everything you mention!...And many others...
Well...I'm going to borrow from my bank and order Pollini AND Guarneri
!...

But for Pollini, I prefer to have the authorization of Mr. Koren...
dk
2021-03-29 22:56:37 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Henk vT
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As I
said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological mania
of "collecting" that stimulates me !... The Guarneri, I know them well
!...I think that the complete works I am quoting is their first
recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Henk
I obviously have everything you mention!...And many others...
Well...I'm going to borrow from my bank and order Pollini AND Guarneri
!...
But for Pollini, I prefer to have the authorization of Mr. Koren...
Denied.

dk
dk
2021-03-30 00:04:05 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Bread and butter are musts, however everything else is optional.
Several items from the list above are plain bad food, and quite a
few are poison.

When do you plan to move out of the cave where you spent the
last 80 years?

dk
Henk vT
2021-03-30 10:25:13 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Bread and butter are musts, however everything else is optional.
Several items from the list above are plain bad food, and quite a
few are poison.
When do you plan to move out of the cave where you spent the
last 80 years?
dk
These are the sets that impressed critics a lot in the last century. Maybe I missed a few. In any case, these are the sets that a collector like Melmoth should have, and already has.

BTW, as long as H J Lim is the only way out of the cave, I'd rather stay in it.

Henk
dk
2021-03-30 20:40:31 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Bread and butter are musts, however everything else is optional.
Several items from the list above are plain bad food, and quite a
few are poison.
When do you plan to move out of the cave where you spent the
last 80 years?
These are the sets that impressed critics a lot in the last century.
"Impressed the critics" is not a good recommendation. We've had
plenty of discussions about this topic over the years. The 'critics"
failed to build their case(s), or even show up in court.
Post by Henk vT
Maybe I missed a few. In any case, these are the sets that a collector
like Melmoth should have, and already has.
I also have all the sets mentioned above, and then some. Besides
Limonade I only listen to Schnabel and Gulda nowadays. Anyone
who takes Beethoven seriously and executes his music seriously
does not know how to read a score. Gulda and Schnabel bring out
some of the edginess, roughness and crude humor in his music,
though not nearly to the same extent or as stupendously performed
as HJ. My taste has also changed over time, and I no longer look at
Richter as the ne plus ultra in everything he played, and certainly not
in Beethoven.
Post by Henk vT
BTW, as long as H J Lim is the only way out of the cave,
I'd rather stay in it.
Caves can be dangerous places.

dk
Henk vT
2021-03-30 22:28:54 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Bread and butter are musts, however everything else is optional.
Several items from the list above are plain bad food, and quite a
few are poison.
When do you plan to move out of the cave where you spent the
last 80 years?
These are the sets that impressed critics a lot in the last century.
"Impressed the critics" is not a good recommendation. We've had
plenty of discussions about this topic over the years. The 'critics"
failed to build their case(s), or even show up in court.
Post by Henk vT
Maybe I missed a few. In any case, these are the sets that a collector
like Melmoth should have, and already has.
I also have all the sets mentioned above, and then some. Besides
Limonade I only listen to Schnabel and Gulda nowadays. Anyone
who takes Beethoven seriously and executes his music seriously
does not know how to read a score. Gulda and Schnabel bring out
some of the edginess, roughness and crude humor in his music,
though not nearly to the same extent or as stupendously performed
as HJ. My taste has also changed over time, and I no longer look at
Richter as the ne plus ultra in everything he played, and certainly not
in Beethoven.
As you say, Beethoven has a certain edginess and roughness. If "humor" means change of style, I agree. Most pianists try to disguise that, even in the Diabelli variations.
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
BTW, as long as H J Lim is the only way out of the cave,
I'd rather stay in it.
Caves can be dangerous places.
dk
<g> Beethoven with Limonade is certainly much safer.

Henk
dk
2021-03-30 23:04:57 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
Wow - almost unlimited choices here, two centrepieces of the chamber/solo
piano repertoire.
In fact, it is mostly for Beethoven/Pollini that I ask for advice...As
I said, I never really liked this pianist...But it is the pathological
mania of "collecting" that stimulates me !...
The Guarneri, I know them well !...I think that the complete works I am
quoting is their first recording...
PS : Since yesterday evening, I've been listening to Martinu's Quartets
(by the Stamitz, in a magnificent Brillaint boxed set that includes the
Quartets of Smetana, Janacek and Martinu)...What wonderful music !.
If you are a collector of the Beethoven sonatas, Pollini is a must, as are
Arrau, Backhaus, Barenboim, Brendel, Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff,
Kovacevich, Nat, and Schnabel - even if you don't like them.
Bread and butter are musts, however everything else is optional.
Several items from the list above are plain bad food, and quite a
few are poison.
When do you plan to move out of the cave where you spent the
last 80 years?
These are the sets that impressed critics a lot in the last century.
"Impressed the critics" is not a good recommendation. We've had
plenty of discussions about this topic over the years. The 'critics"
failed to build their case(s), or even show up in court.
Post by Henk vT
Maybe I missed a few. In any case, these are the sets that a collector
like Melmoth should have, and already has.
I also have all the sets mentioned above, and then some. Besides
Limonade I only listen to Schnabel and Gulda nowadays. Anyone
who takes Beethoven seriously and executes his music seriously
does not know how to read a score. Gulda and Schnabel bring out
some of the edginess, roughness and crude humor in his music,
though not nearly to the same extent or as stupendously performed
as HJ. My taste has also changed over time, and I no longer look at
Richter as the ne plus ultra in everything he played, and certainly not
in Beethoven.
As you say, Beethoven has a certain edginess and roughness. If "humor" means change of style, I agree. Most pianists try to disguise that, even in the Diabelli variations.
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
BTW, as long as H J Lim is the only way out of the cave,
I'd rather stay in it.
Caves can be dangerous places.
<g> Beethoven with Limonade is certainly much safer.
Beethoven can never be safe, but Limonade makes his
music far more palatable! ;-)

dk

MELMOTH
2021-03-30 12:49:40 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
- the string quartets of LdV by the *Guarneri*...
My poor MELMOTH...You are aging badly...Don't you know that old age is
a shipwreck, even for you ?...
You have had the Guarneri for a long time!...In the big Brilliant box
(the first one) of the complete Beethoven, let's see...
If you go on like this, you will become a dk...Be careful...
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