Discussion:
Your favourite Haydn variations (I mean music by Haydn, not by Brahms)
Add Reply
Mandryka
2021-03-29 09:33:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are especially fond of.
MiNe109
2021-03-29 14:18:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
Johannes Roehl
2021-03-29 15:16:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f minor (piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the first large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a great favorite. Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that collection (one in #3 and another one). The most famous in the quartets is also deservedly so, I think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated as cantus firmus because the Emperor has to be a point of stability). Of the freer movements that start out as some kind of variation but are more freely developed a great favorite is the siciliano-like first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end and kind of "dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of op.33,5+6 (Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the more famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its extremely modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least interesting of the Paris set).
Bob Harper
2021-03-30 17:05:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johannes Roehl
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f minor (piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the first large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a great favorite. Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that collection (one in #3 and another one). The most famous in the quartets is also deservedly so, I think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated as cantus firmus because the Emperor has to be a point of stability). Of the freer movements that start out as some kind of variation but are more freely developed a great favorite is the siciliano-like first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end and kind of "dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of op.33,5+6 (Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the more famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its extremely modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least interesting of the Paris set).
The slow movement of Symphony 103, which is probably my favorite of all
the symphonies.

Bob Harper
Ricardo Jimenez
2021-03-30 18:26:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:05:33 -0700, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Johannes Roehl
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f minor (piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the first large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a great favorite. Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that collection (one in #3 and another one). The most famous in the quartets is also deservedly so, I think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated as cantus firmus because the Emperor has to be a point of stability). Of the freer movements that start out as some kind of variation but are more freely developed a great favorite is the siciliano-like first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end and kind of "dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of op.33,5+6 (Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the more famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its extremely modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least interesting of the Paris set).
The slow movement of Symphony 103, which is probably my favorite of all
the symphonies.
Bob Harper
Those variations in the "drumroll" are a favorite of mine also.
According to Wikipedia, they are Haydn's last set of double
variations, coming a couple of years after those of "un piccolo
divertimento". I don't know about the claim in Wikipedia that the
two themes in C minor and major derive from Croatian fold music.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-03-30 20:37:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Those variations in the "drumroll" are a favorite of mine also.
According to Wikipedia, they are Haydn's last set of double
variations, coming a couple of years after those of "un piccolo
divertimento". I don't know about the claim in Wikipedia that the
two themes in C minor and major derive from Croatian fol[k] music.
I had a college professor who told us "the secret story" of those variations: the minor-key portion (with its "dangerous" augmented second!) represents the Turks approaching the city walls of Vienna. The major-key portion represents the Viennese champion who will lead the Viennese to victory over the Turks. After various maneuverings, a great battle is waged (the variation with the trumpet calls, etc.) - the Viennese are victorious, and, at the end of the movement, can go back to drinking their lattés. It's kind of a fun poetic fancy and certainly no worse than "the secret fight against Stalin" which so many listeners profess to hear in the music of Shostakovich! ;-)
Al Eisner
2021-03-31 01:41:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johannes Roehl
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f minor
(piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the first
large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a great favorite.
Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that collection (one in #3
and another one). The most famous in the quartets is also deservedly so, I
think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated as cantus firmus because the Emperor has
to be a point of stability). Of the freer movements that start out as some
kind of variation but are more freely developed a great favorite is the
siciliano-like first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end
and kind of "dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of
op.33,5+6 (Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double
variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the more
famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its extremely
modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least interesting of the
Paris set).
The slow movement of Symphony 103, which is probably my favorite of all the
symphonies.
Bob Harper
Mine too. It stands out from the other great Haydn symphonies *because*
of that movement. But thanks to Johannes for his list (I'm not all that
familiar with #70, orwith the Op. 50 quartets.)
--
Al Eisner
Bob Harper
2021-03-31 02:36:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Johannes Roehl
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f
minor (piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the
first large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a
great favorite. Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that
collection (one in #3 and another one). The most famous in the
quartets is also deservedly so, I think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated
as cantus firmus because the Emperor has to be a point of stability).
Of the freer movements that start out as some kind of variation but
are more freely developed a great favorite is the siciliano-like
first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end and kind of
"dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of op.33,5+6
(Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double
variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the
more famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its
extremely modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least
interesting of the Paris set).
The slow movement of Symphony 103, which is probably my favorite of
all the symphonies.
Bob Harper
Mine too.  It stands out from the other great Haydn symphonies *because*
of that movement.  But thanks to Johannes for his list (I'm not all that
familiar with #70, orwith the Op. 50 quartets.)
Haydn's genius is inexhaustible. That one man did it beggars belief.

Bob Harper
Norman Schwartz
2021-03-31 17:44:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Johannes Roehl
Post by MiNe109
Post by Mandryka
Having been very much enjoying the double variations in op 50/4 I
thought I’d ask here which of his variation movements you are
especially fond of.
The Piano Sonata in C Major XVI:48 first movement is interesting. It's
another double variation, with themes in major and minor and a
rondo-like character.
yes, that's a good one. TBH am not all that impressed by the famous f minor (piccolo divertimento) piano variations.
My favorites are from symphonies and quartets. Already one of the first large variations movements, namely op.20/4 (slow mvmt) is a great favorite. Besides op.50/4 there are I think two more in that collection (one in #3 and another one). The most famous in the quartets is also deservedly so, I think, the "Emperor hymn" (treated as cantus firmus because the Emperor has to be a point of stability). Of the freer movements that start out as some kind of variation but are more freely developed a great favorite is the siciliano-like first movement of op.76/5 that gets speeded up at the end and kind of "dissolves". I am not so fond of the variation finales of op.33,5+6 (Mozart made much more of this in his d minor quartet.)
In the symphonies I prefer the d minor "canon" of #70, the double variations in #90 and also the slow movements of #84 and #97 to the more famous "surprise" #94, (nevertheless a tour de force with its extremely modest material) and #85 (which I find overall the least interesting of the Paris set).
The slow movement of Symphony 103, which is probably my favorite of all
the symphonies.
Bob Harper
A favorite of mine is the Symphony #31, Movement IV (Theme + 7 Variations). I like Mackerras on Telarc.
Loading...