Discussion:
Brahms Double Concerto
(too old to reply)
Yoram Regev
2006-06-20 12:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.

Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record? Has Harnoncourt
recorded it? Is it good?

Thanks,
Yoram
Paul Ilechko
2006-06-20 12:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Szell/Oistrakh/Rostropovich on EMI GROC.
Matthew B. Tepper
2006-06-20 14:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Szell/Oistrakh/Rostropovich on EMI GROC.
Yes, my "imprint" version. I also love Heifetz and Feuermann with Ormandy/
Philadelphia.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
R***@gmail.com
2006-06-20 12:43:22 UTC
Permalink
I've always liked Bruno Walter's recording with Francescatti & Fournier
and rarely been tempted to add another one (Heifetz & Feuermann aside)
francis
2006-06-20 12:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland O
Heifetz/Piatigorgsky/Wallenstein--not better, just different than
Heifetz/Feuermann

and, though I'm not a Toscanini fan, I do enjoy his Double with Mischa
Mishakoff and Frank Miller.
Matthew B. Tepper
2006-06-20 14:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by francis
Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland O
Heifetz/Piatigorgsky/Wallenstein--not better, just different than
Heifetz/Feuermann
and, though I'm not a Toscanini fan, I do enjoy his Double with Mischa
Mishakoff and Frank Miller.
You can also *watch* that Toscanini performance taking place as given, on
vol. 2 of "The Television Concerts" recently issued by Testament.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
j***@aol.com
2006-06-20 16:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by francis
Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland O
Heifetz/Piatigorgsky/Wallenstein--not better, just different than
Heifetz/Feuermann
and, though I'm not a Toscanini fan, I do enjoy his Double with Mischa
Mishakoff and Frank Miller.
So do I, but I'm a Miller fan.

--Jeff
j***@aol.com
2006-06-20 16:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@gmail.com
I've always liked Bruno Walter's recording with Francescatti & Fournier
and rarely been tempted to add another one (Heifetz & Feuermann aside)
I've never heard that Walter recording but it is a good cast. Walter
with Leonard Rose and John Corigliano (Sr.) is my favorite--a live
performance that has been on a couple of labels and it just sings,
sings and sings. One of my favorite Brahms recordings. I also liked
Furtwangler with principals of the Vienna Phil, Fricsay with
Schneiderhan and Starker, and Ancerl with Suk and Navarra, as well as
the early Ormandy recording mentioned earlier.

There are some magical things in the Maderna, in my opinon, but it
isn't quite the sustained pleasure that these others are. I hope the
original poster continues to give the Maderna a try.

--Jeff
Lena
2006-06-20 16:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by R***@gmail.com
I've always liked Bruno Walter's recording with Francescatti & Fournier
and rarely been tempted to add another one (Heifetz & Feuermann aside)
I've never heard that Walter recording but it is a good cast. Walter
with Leonard Rose and John Corigliano (Sr.) is my favorite--a live
performance that has been on a couple of labels and it just sings,
sings and sings. One of my favorite Brahms recordings. [...]
For pretty fiery but foggy: Cortot, Thibaud, Casals. Cortot conducts.
(Unfortunately the audio quality is terrible, so this is definitely a
supplemental CD suggestion.) Casals is maybe the fieriest party (as in
very passionate, at times furious), but there's fire from all involved.
The "singing" - well, if it's singing, it's a fairly urgent sort of
singing here (which is how I at least like things in this piece).

(This is IIRC a bit similar to the recommended
Heifetz-Piatigorsky-Wallenstein in overall demeanor. I haven't heard
Heifetz-Feuermann yet.)

Lena
Steve LaBonne
2006-06-20 17:24:33 UTC
Permalink
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
j***@aol.com
2006-06-20 17:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve LaBonne
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
I think I have that too, but I definitely have that great Cortot et al.
performance on Koch, and though it may be foggy, it is easy to switch
to IFR and have a pleasant "instruments only landing"...which is what
this music is, anyway, right? :-)

---Jeff
Lena
2006-06-20 17:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Steve LaBonne
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
I think I have that too, but I definitely have that great Cortot et al.
performance on Koch, and though it may be foggy, it is easy to switch
to IFR and have a pleasant "instruments only landing"...which is what
this music is, anyway, right? :-)
Which has the better landing gear (not to mention pilots), Koch or
Naxos?

Lena
j***@aol.com
2006-06-20 18:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lena
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Steve LaBonne
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
I think I have that too, but I definitely have that great Cortot et al.
performance on Koch, and though it may be foggy, it is easy to switch
to IFR and have a pleasant "instruments only landing"...which is what
this music is, anyway, right? :-)
Which has the better landing gear (not to mention pilots), Koch or
Naxos?
Lena
Depends on your runway, but I'd go with Naxos. Is the Koch even
available anymore?

--Jeff
Lena
2006-06-20 18:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Lena
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by Steve LaBonne
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
I think I have that too, but I definitely have that great Cortot et al.
performance on Koch, and though it may be foggy, it is easy to switch
to IFR and have a pleasant "instruments only landing"...which is what
this music is, anyway, right? :-)
Which has the better landing gear (not to mention pilots), Koch or
Naxos?
Lena
Depends on your runway, but I'd go with Naxos.
Thank you, ground control.
Post by j***@aol.com
Is the Koch even available anymore?
Not officially, but I see misty, far-off copies on Amazon marketplace.

Lena
Lena
2006-06-20 17:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve LaBonne
Post by Lena
For pretty fiery but foggy: Cortot, Thibaud, Casals. Cortot conducts.
(Unfortunately the audio quality is terrible, so this is definitely a
supplemental CD suggestion.) Casals is maybe the fieriest party (as in
very passionate, at times furious), but there's fire from all involved.
I have the Naxos Historical disc of Thibaud-Cortot-Casals (coupled with
Casals's Dvorak concerto and Bruch Kol Nidrei) and the sound doesn't
seem all that bad to me, certainly not nearly bad enough to impair my
enjoyment of the magnificent performance.
Thanks for mentioning that, I overlooked the Naxos. (I have something
else, but will recommend the Naxos transfer to myself, then...)

Lena
Simon Roberts
2006-06-20 13:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record?
Yes, though such performances are hard to find. Heifetz/Piatigorsky/RCA is
probably the best of the stereo recordings from that point of view, for all that
the soloists are recorded too close.

Has Harnoncourt
Post by Yoram Regev
recorded it? Is it good?
He's recorded it, but you will likely find it too slow (I do, at any rate).

Simon
JohnGavin
2006-06-20 14:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record?
Yes, though such performances are hard to find. Heifetz/Piatigorsky/RCA is
probably the best of the stereo recordings from that point of view, for all that
the soloists are recorded too close.
Another hard to find one - Milstein/Piatigorsky/Reiner - it's been a
while since I've heard it, but I suspect with Reiner at the helm, the
tempos would be fleeter.
Mark Obert-Thorn
2006-06-20 15:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
Another hard to find one - Milstein/Piatigorsky/Reiner - it's been a
while since I've heard it, but I suspect with Reiner at the helm, the
tempos would be fleeter.
It won't be hard to find shortly; I've transferred it for Naxos, and it
will be out later this summer (except in the USA), coupled with
Milstein's RCA recordings of the Brahms D Minor Violin Sonata with
Horowitz and the Beethoven "Spring" Sonata with Balsam.

Mark Obert-Thorn
JohnGavin
2006-06-20 15:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Obert-Thorn
Post by JohnGavin
Another hard to find one - Milstein/Piatigorsky/Reiner - it's been a
while since I've heard it, but I suspect with Reiner at the helm, the
tempos would be fleeter.
It won't be hard to find shortly; I've transferred it for Naxos, and it
will be out later this summer (except in the USA), coupled with
Milstein's RCA recordings of the Brahms D Minor Violin Sonata with
Horowitz and the Beethoven "Spring" Sonata with Balsam.
Mark Obert-Thorn
That's great news :)
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
2006-06-20 22:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record?
Yes, though such performances are hard to find. Heifetz/Piatigorsky/RCA is
probably the best of the stereo recordings from that point of view, for all that
the soloists are recorded too close.
Another hard to find one - Milstein/Piatigorsky/Reiner - it's been a
while since I've heard it, but I suspect with Reiner at the helm, the
tempos would be fleeter.
Tempos not quite as fleet as Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein but
satisfyingly animated, and in good mono 1951 sound.

Another worthwhile performance IMO, a tad slower than both the above but not
at all stodgy, is Suk/Navarra/Ancerl.

Russ (not Martha)
Paul Goldstein
2006-06-20 15:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record?
For fiery, go to Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein.
Curtis Croulet
2006-06-20 16:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
For fiery, go to Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein.
That's a favorite of mine, too.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
Vaneyes
2006-06-20 16:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Ma/Stern/CSO/Abbado (Sony).

Regards
Ed Presson
2006-06-20 21:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vaneyes
Ma/Stern/CSO/Abbado (Sony).
Regards
I will admit that I have not heard all the competition, but I also like this
one.

Ed
Steve Emerson
2006-06-20 19:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record?
Fiery -- Ferras/Tortelier/Kletzki. Tortelier may not be synonymous with
fiery, but he certainly plays that way here.

SE.
MW
2006-06-20 22:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Gielen wastes no time in his- I find it pretty snappy. And you won't
waste money on it, as it is available very cheaply. I can't say much
about the soloists- i don't know who they are, and I'm not the best
guide there.
MW
2006-06-20 22:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Gielen wastes no time in his- I find it pretty snappy. And you won't
waste money on it, as it is available very cheaply. I can't say much
about the soloists- i don't know who they are, and I'm not the best
guide there.
George Murnu
2006-06-21 02:44:53 UTC
Permalink
A vote for Ancerl / Suk / Navarra.

Regards,

George
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record? Has Harnoncourt
recorded it? Is it good?
Thanks,
Yoram
Terry Simmons
2006-06-21 03:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record? Has Harnoncourt
recorded it? Is it good?
Thanks,
Yoram
I'm sure you'll receive many recommendations. My favourite is the one on DGG,
conducted by Ferenc Fricsay, with Schneiderhan and Starker as soloists. Lovely
playing, beautiful recording quality.
--
Cheers!

Terry
Wiener Sänger
2006-06-21 04:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoram Regev
Does anyone have a recommendation for this concerto? I have an LP with
Perlman/Rostropovitch/Haitink, which is OK but not exciting. I also have
a recording with Maderna, which is too slow for my taste. I like the
piece a lot, and heard this morning the first movement with
Perlman/Ma/Barenboim, and it was again too slow and too sweet.
Is there a more fiery, bold performance on record? Has Harnoncourt
recorded it? Is it good?
Thanks,
Yoram
Jascha Heifetz/Gregor Piatigorsky/RCA Victor SO/Alfred Wallenstein
May 1960 Stereo RCA Victor Gold Seal

Not a top-notch orchestra, but what soloists!

R
Matthew B. Tepper
2006-06-21 05:25:50 UTC
Permalink
"Wiener Sänger" <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:1150864439.739982.102030
Post by Wiener Sänger
Jascha Heifetz/Gregor Piatigorsky/RCA Victor SO/Alfred Wallenstein
May 1960 Stereo RCA Victor Gold Seal
Not a top-notch orchestra, but what soloists!
Wasn't it the New York Philharmonic with the serial numbers filed off?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
j***@aol.com
2006-06-21 05:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:1150864439.739982.102030
Post by Wiener Sänger
Jascha Heifetz/Gregor Piatigorsky/RCA Victor SO/Alfred Wallenstein
May 1960 Stereo RCA Victor Gold Seal
Not a top-notch orchestra, but what soloists!
Wasn't it the New York Philharmonic with the serial numbers filed off?
Those musicians back then were so tough they literally chewed through
their own dog tags to get that gig.

--Jeff
makropulos
2006-06-21 14:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Suk/Navarra/Ancerl (Supraphon)
Scheniderhan/Starker/Fricsay (DG)
and
Oistrakh/Fournier/Galliera (EMI)
are among my favourite versions. They all have a sense of purpose as
well as beautiful playing. The Toscanini performance on Testament DVD
is thrilling too.

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