Discussion:
COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER
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John Fowler
2019-09-25 17:26:07 UTC
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I am currently posting messages on three forums devoted to upcoming Complete Beethoven boxes.
Instead of posting to three different forums, I am creating a new forum devoted to all three boxes.
First post:

COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 25)

NAXOS BOX (October 25) - I know which works are in this box but Naxos stubbornly refuses to identify the performers of each work.
One photo shows a booklet, and what looks like a CD-ROM in a separate sleeve.
If the CD-ROM contains texts for the vocal works, I hope Naxos remembered the English translations (face it - English is the International Language).
Nothing dumber than providing the text only in the language that’s being sung - unless you are into Karaoke!

DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
The DG box has the best documentation:
--- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
--- it includes texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG. - from DG’s website: “Nine softcover books with track listings, notes and sung texts (English/Deutsch).

WARNER BOX (November 29) - comes with an attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.

DG = 102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
Warner = 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
-Naxos = 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475

MISSING WORKS:
This part is a work in progress. Please let me know if you find any additional missing works.
--- Leonore - opera Op.72a (first version, 1805) is missing from the DG box, which uses John Eliot Gardiner’s conflated version of 1805, 1806 and even Fidelio (1814).
--- Leonore - opera Op.72b (second version, 1806) is missing from all three boxes.
--- Quartet Op.130, revised finale: Warner lists only the original finale (Grosse fuge). This is probably a typo.

MAJOR WORKS:
For some recordings, I have made an educated guess (indicated by ?????)

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962, BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD Video)
--- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- NX complete:
OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA complete: conducted by Barenboim, Dausgaard, Klemperer, Muti
--- NX complete: Skrowaczewski ?????
CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- NX: Segerstam ?????
EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA: Masur
--- NX:
WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA: Dausgaard
--- NX:

MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini
--- NX:
MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Karajan (1966) - and Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX:
CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA: Wangenheim
--- NX: Segerstam ?????
FIDELIO (1814 final version)
--- DG: Abbado - and Bernstein (DVD Video)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX:
LEONORE (1805 & 1806 versions of Fidelio)
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - conductor’s hybrid of 1805, 1806 and even 1814 versions
--- WA: Blomstedt - 1805 version
--- NX: - 1805 version

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
--- NX:
CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- NX:
CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- NX:
CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- NX:
FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- NX:
ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
--- NX:

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
--- NX complete:
CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder
--- NX complete:
VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Capucon/Braley
--- NX complete:

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) and Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre
--- NX complete:
STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
--- NX complete:
STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
--- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they play the Grosse fuge as the final movement of Op.130 (later published as Op.133) - but not the revised finale. This may be a typo)
--- NX complete:
John Fowler
2019-09-26 14:17:00 UTC
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BAD NEWS:
re: the Naxos Box
The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
Instead it contains:
"Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
STUPID.
Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-09-26 14:59:11 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
re: the Naxos Box
The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
"Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
STUPID.
Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.
Thats a deal breaker for me
Dana John Hill
2019-09-26 14:59:43 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
re: the Naxos Box
The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
"Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
STUPID.
Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.
Not including any sort of texts, even on CD-ROM is inexplicably short sighted for a label going through the trouble of organizing a large collection like this. Even if it raised the cost by five dollars, most people would be grateful for it.

I have the older DG Beethoven Edition (the one with the clear acrylic shelf and hardcover book), which does include extensive documentation and texts with translations. But that was originally priced at over $1,000. At under $300, the new DG set seems like a bargain, especially given the documentation, though I doubt there are many reading this group who wouldn't experience a great deal of duplication by purchasing it.

I'm actually starting to wonder whether I should sell my earlier set and get the new one, and pocket some money thereby.

Dana
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-09-26 19:01:42 UTC
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Post by Dana John Hill
Post by John Fowler
re: the Naxos Box
The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
"Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
STUPID.
Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.
Not including any sort of texts, even on CD-ROM is inexplicably short sighted for a label going through the trouble of organizing a large collection like this. Even if it raised the cost by five dollars, most people would be grateful for it.
I have the older DG Beethoven Edition (the one with the clear acrylic shelf and hardcover book), which does include extensive documentation and texts with translations. But that was originally priced at over $1,000. At under $300, the new DG set seems like a bargain, especially given the documentation, though I doubt there are many reading this group who wouldn't experience a great deal of duplication by purchasing it.
I'm actually starting to wonder whether I should sell my earlier set and get the new one, and pocket some money thereby.
Dana
I don't mind the duplicates of the important works and like the blu rays! I think I am going for the DG - deluxe seems the way to go
John Fowler
2019-09-26 19:52:50 UTC
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Of course, we are still waiting to figure out which label is the "most complete".
j***@yahoo.com
2019-09-27 12:59:52 UTC
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I’ll be going for the Naxos box, only because of the large duplications for me with the other boxes -including the blu-rays.
John Fowler
2019-10-13 18:58:52 UTC
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PROBLEM WITH LEONORE
Beethoven composed three versions of the same opera, with four different overtures:
--- 1805 Version 1: Leonore Op.72a, opens with Leonore Overture No.2 (chronologically this should be called Leonore Overture No.1, but the order was screwed up by early musicologists)
--- 1806 Version 2: Leonore Op.72b, opens with Leonore Overture No.3 (chronologically this should be called Leonore Overture No.2)
--- 1807 Version 3: Beethoven planned a third version of Leonore, but only got as far as a new overture, published posthumously as “Leonore Overture No.1” with the unlikely opus number of Op.138 (chronologically this should have been called Leonore Overture No.3 Op.72c)
--- 1814 Version 4: Fidelio Op.72, opens with the Fidelio Overture.
All three boxes have Fidelio and the four overtures.
--- but the DG box lacks both versions of Leonore. Instead, John Eliot Gardner prepared a conflated version of the 1805 and 1806 Leonores (with some 1814 Fidelio thrown in for good measure). This is a totally unsatisfactory solution for a scholarly edition of Beethoven’s works.
--- Warner and Naxos have the same (excellent) recording of the first, 1805 Leonore conducted by Herbert Blomstedt, but neither box includes the text or translation. To get them you need the original Berlin Classics CD release, which I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=beethoven+leonore+blomstedt&qid=1570985988&s=music&sr=1-2 (avoid the Brilliant Classics re-release).
--- The second, 1806 version of Leonore is absent from all three boxes, but it has been recorded - by the other DG (Dabringhaus und Grim): https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-version-Ludwig-van/dp/B00000G4MW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568638057&s=music&sr=1-1 (with text and translation). The 1806 version has serious differences from the 1805 version and the omission is a serious black mark against all three companies.
w***@hotmail.com
2019-09-29 17:02:09 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
I am currently posting messages on three forums devoted to upcoming Complete Beethoven boxes.
Instead of posting to three different forums, I am creating a new forum devoted to all three boxes.
COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 25)
NAXOS BOX (October 25) - I know which works are in this box but Naxos stubbornly refuses to identify the performers of each work.
One photo shows a booklet, and what looks like a CD-ROM in a separate sleeve.
If the CD-ROM contains texts for the vocal works, I hope Naxos remembered the English translations (face it - English is the International Language).
Nothing dumber than providing the text only in the language that’s being sung - unless you are into Karaoke!
DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
--- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
--- it includes texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG. - from DG’s website: “Nine softcover books with track listings, notes and sung texts (English/Deutsch).
WARNER BOX (November 29) - comes with an attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.
DG = 102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
Warner = 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
-Naxos = 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475
This part is a work in progress. Please let me know if you find any additional missing works.
--- Leonore - opera Op.72a (first version, 1805) is missing from the DG box, which uses John Eliot Gardiner’s conflated version of 1805, 1806 and even Fidelio (1814).
--- Leonore - opera Op.72b (second version, 1806) is missing from all three boxes.
--- Quartet Op.130, revised finale: Warner lists only the original finale (Grosse fuge). This is probably a typo.
For some recordings, I have made an educated guess (indicated by ?????)
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962, BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD Video)
--- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA complete: conducted by Barenboim, Dausgaard, Klemperer, Muti
--- NX complete: Skrowaczewski ?????
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- NX: Segerstam ?????
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA: Masur
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA: Dausgaard
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini
--- DG: Karajan (1966) - and Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- DG: Klee
--- WA: Wangenheim
--- NX: Segerstam ?????
FIDELIO (1814 final version)
--- DG: Abbado - and Bernstein (DVD Video)
--- WA: Klemperer
LEONORE (1805 & 1806 versions of Fidelio)
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - conductor’s hybrid of 1805, 1806 and even 1814 versions
--- WA: Blomstedt - 1805 version
--- NX: - 1805 version
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder
--- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Capucon/Braley
--- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) and Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
--- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they play the Grosse fuge as the final movement of Op.130 (later published as Op.133) - but not the revised finale. This may be a typo)
for Naxos you are going to get basically competent but "mystery meat" performances. For the price, DG should include a disc or downloadable PDF of all documentation and texts. Why is DG including Hollywood Quartet recordings? they were Capitol artists and would belong to Warner now.
John Fowler
2019-09-29 18:39:36 UTC
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DG licensed some other company's recordings for inclusion in "Historical Performances" (discs 102-113)
Hollywood Quartet and Artur Schnabel from EMI
Busch Quartet from Sony
r***@gmail.com
2019-10-03 09:23:57 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
DG licensed some other company's recordings for inclusion in "Historical Performances" (discs 102-113)
Hollywood Quartet and Artur Schnabel from EMI
Busch Quartet from Sony
Did they license the EMI Busch Quartet recordings too? It would be nice to get them all in one place at last. I have both series on LP.
John Fowler
2019-10-03 10:59:27 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Did they license the EMI Busch Quartet recordings too? It would be nice to get them all in one place at last. I have both series on LP.
No. Just one recording each from Busch, Schnabel and the Hollywood Quartet. A sampling.
Al Eisner
2019-10-01 05:33:44 UTC
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On Sun, 29 Sep 2019, ***@hotmail.com wrote:

....
Post by w***@hotmail.com
for Naxos you are going to get basically competent but "mystery meat" performances. For the price, DG should include a disc or downloadable PDF of all documentation and texts. Why is DG including Hollywood Quartet recordings? they were Capitol artists and would belong to Warner now.
You can find at least a partial list of artists (but not associated with
works) at https://www.naxos.de/neuheiten/0747313025039/
--
Al Eisner
Andrew Clarke
2019-10-01 07:35:43 UTC
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Post by Al Eisner
....
Post by w***@hotmail.com
for Naxos you are going to get basically competent but "mystery meat" performances. For the price, DG should include a disc or downloadable PDF of all documentation and texts. Why is DG including Hollywood Quartet recordings? they were Capitol artists and would belong to Warner now.
You can find at least a partial list of artists (but not associated with
works) at https://www.naxos.de/neuheiten/0747313025039/
--
Al Eisner
Includes people like Edda Moser as well as Naxos stalwarts like Jeno Jando, Bela Drahos, the Eszterhazy Sinfonia, the Kodaly Quartet, the Capella Istropolitana (i.e. the CSSR Radio Orchestra (Bratislava) minus the secret police), Maria Kliegel, Stefan Vladar, etc.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
John Fowler
2019-10-02 11:09:57 UTC
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Naxos has some new Beethoven recordings by Lief Segerstam and the Turku (Finland) Philharmonic:
Creatures of Prometheus
Egmont incidental music
Christ on the Mount of Olives
Mark Zimmer
2019-10-04 14:10:05 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Creatures of Prometheus
Egmont incidental music
Christ on the Mount of Olives
Naxos also has a recent release of the piano version of The Creatures of Prometheus, Hess 90, played by Warren Lee.
John Fowler
2019-10-07 19:57:16 UTC
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New John Eliot Gardiner Beethoven box from Deutsche Grammophon:
https://www.amazon.com/Gardiner-Complete-Beethoven-15-CD/dp/B07VDMP7RR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2BEUMT3SZYZNC&keywords=gardiner+beethoven&qid=1570476110&sprefix=gardiner+beethoven%2Caps%2C184&sr=8-1
All of Gardiner's Beethoven recordings for DG.
15 CDs.
Most of these will also be in the DG New Complete Edition, but three recordings and a bonus disc will not be in the Complete Edition:
-- Piano Concerti 3 & 5 with Robert Levin (their recordings of 1,2,4, the Rondo and Choral Fantasy are in the Complete Edition
-- Violin Concerto with Victoria Mullova
-- bonus disc: Analysis of the Symphonies by Gardiner

Of course, this is assuming that the list on HMV.co.jp is accurate:
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427
amh
2019-10-11 13:21:50 UTC
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performer info for the Naxos box: https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250
John Fowler
2019-10-11 21:18:21 UTC
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Post by amh
performer info for the Naxos box: https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250
Thanks for this heads-up.
Biggest disappointment: Naxos has an interesting new set of Beethoven Symphonies from Adam Fischer and the Danish Chamber Orchestra, but they chose their old Bela Drahos / Nicolas Esterhazy Sinfonia set.

Biggest surprise: They have the same performance of Leonore (1805 version) as the Warner box: Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskapelle
John Fowler
2019-10-12 13:38:25 UTC
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Archive Music will have the most detailed contents list IF THEY EVER GET PAST DISC 10:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2292995#details
John Fowler
2019-10-12 14:52:31 UTC
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COMPLETE BEETHOVEN (updated October 12) - a forum devoted to three competing boxes.

DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
The DG box has the best documentation:
--- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
--- Texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG.

WARNER BOX (November 29) - 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 - No texts or translations for vocal works.

NAXOS BOX (November 1) - 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250 - No texts or translations for vocal works.

MISSING WORKS:
This part is a work in progress. Please let me know if you find additional missing works.
--- Leonore - opera Op.72a (first version, 1805) is missing from the DG box, which uses John Eliot Gardiner’s conflated version of 1805, 1806 and even Fidelio (1814).
--- Leonore - opera Op.72b (second version, 1806) is missing from all three boxes.
--- Quartet Op.130, revised finale: Warner lists only the original finale (Grosse fuge). This is probably a typo.

MAJOR WORKS:

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962, BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD Video)
--- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- NX complete: Drahos, Nicolas Esterhazy Sinfonietta
OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA complete: conducted by Barenboim, Dausgaard, Klemperer, Muti
--- NX complete: conducted by Drahos, Gunzenhauser, Segerstam, Skrowaczewski
CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- NX: Segerstam + Beethoven’s transcription for solo piano
EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA: Masur
--- NX: Segerstam
WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA: Dausgaard
--- NX: Lenárd + Beethoven’s transcription for solo piano

MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini
--- NX: Segerstam
MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Karajan (1966) - and Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX: Schermerhorn
CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA: Wangenheim
--- NX: Segerstam
FIDELIO (1814 final version)
--- DG: Abbado - and Bernstein (DVD Video)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX: Halász
LEONORE (1805 & 1806 versions of Fidelio)
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - conductor’s hybrid of 1805, 1806 and even 1814 versions
--- WA: Blomstedt - 1805 version
--- NX: Blomstedt - 1805 version

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
--- NX: Vladar/Wordsworth
CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- NX: Nishizaki/Jean
CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- NX: Jandó/ Drahos
CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- NX: Jandó, Dong-Suk Kang, Kliegel/ Drahos
FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- NX: McCawley/Wetton
ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
--- NX: Nishizaki/Jean

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
--- NX complete: Jeno Jando
CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder
--- NX complete: Kliegel/Jando
VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Capucon/Braley
--- NX complete: Nishizaki/Jando

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio -- Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) and Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) -- Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre
--- NX complete: Xyrion Trio
STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
--- NX complete: Falvay, Fejervari, Eder
STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
--- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they play the Grosse fuge as the final movement of Op.130 (later published as Op.133) - but not the revised finale. This may be a typo)
--- NX complete: Kodaly Quartet
Al Eisner
2019-10-12 21:37:49 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
COMPLETE BEETHOVEN (updated October 12) - a forum devoted to three competing boxes.
DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
--- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
--- Texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG.
WARNER BOX (November 29) - 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 - No texts or translations for vocal works.
NAXOS BOX (November 1) - 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250 - No texts or translations for vocal works.
[snipped]

Even though I'm not in the market for a complete Beethoven set -- I prefer
to pick and choose performances, and I don't share the conpleteness urge
(I almost said "fetish") of many here -- but I find looking at your
summaries fascinating, and a valuable service to rmcr. If I were in
the market, I would surely choose the DG, not just for the documentation,
but because I consider the multiple performances of major works and the
historical disks big pluses. DG really seems to have done things right.
As for the cost, well, it is Beethoven! Thanks for your efforts.
--
Al Eisner
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