Brahms's Piano Music

[mandryka]

I like Brahms’s piano music.

I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.

But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

[JohnGavin]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way. Have you heard
ABM in these?

[woytek]

Post by JohnGavin

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.
The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way.  Have you heard
ABM in these?

I love Richter way with first two piano sonatas. I know three
recordings: great Mantova recording from Decca, not so good version
from Tours on Philips (right now included in Richter the master Decca
series) and the best of them all Praga version which is I'm afraid not
available right now. And very interesting early Moscow recording is
available on Sviatoslavrichter.ru site: http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php

[David Wake]

Post by woytek

Post by JohnGavin

I like Brahmss piano music.
Ive got quite a big collection of recordings already, so its
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But Im enjoying his music so much  early, middle and late  that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
Ill start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently  Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.
The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way. Have you
heard
ABM in these?

I love Richter way with first two piano sonatas. I know three
recordings: great Mantova recording from Decca, not so good version
from Tours on Philips (right now included in Richter the master Decca
series) and the best of them all Praga version which is I'm afraid not
available right now. And very interesting early Moscow recording is
http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php

Rubinstein in pretty much anything.

Richter "in Leipzig" in the E flat minor intermezzo is overwhelming.

Gilels in the Ballades.

David

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by David Wake
Rubinstein in pretty much anything.
Richter "in Leipzig" in the E flat minor intermezzo is overwhelming.
Gilels in the Ballades.

In the Capriccio Op. 76 #2 ... Béla Bartók! Really.

[bassppn]

Post by JohnGavin

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.
The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way.  Have you heard
ABM in these?

also try Kempff

AB

[pianomaven]

Post by JohnGavin

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.

TD

[mandryka]

Post by pianomaven

Post by JohnGavin

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.
TD

What was his problem with the sound?

I'm playing his Op 5 now and it doesn't sound at all bad to me. The
pianos a bit closely miked and maybe some of the higher notes are a
bit harsh.

Much better sound than DG at their worst -- Pletnev's Chopin, for
example.

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by JohnGavin

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I¹ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently ­ Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.

The sound on Op 5 is bad, he's right. It's also a completely
unremarkable performance.

John, if you're reading this, please drop me an e-mail. I sent one to
you a while back and it bounced.

SE.

[JohnGavin]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by JohnGavin

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I¹ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently ­ Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.

The sound on Op 5 is bad, he's right. It's also a completely
unremarkable performance.
John, if you're reading this, please drop me an e-mail. I sent one to
you a while back and it bounced.
SE.

Steve,

It's the same prefix @gmail.com

[wimpie]

Post by pianomaven

Post by JohnGavin

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.
TD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

What I have never quite understood with Zimerman: when he was
dissatisfied with the sound of his recordings, why did he choose to
stay with DGG? He could have moved to Philips when they were still
active (and this was of course definitely the case when Zimerman
stopped making solo recordings after 1992/3!) and could have made I
don't know how many great recordings that will never see the day
now... And, something else that baffles me, how is it possible that
such a major company DGG cannot provide a pianist with the "right"
sound? Or did Philips only have the secret? Or is Zimerman such a
perfectionist that even that wouldn't have been good enough for him?

W.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

wimpie <***@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:733addc2-c7f3-4c3c-aa71-8289712afac3

What I have never quite understood with Zimerman: when he was dissatisfied
with the sound of his recordings, why did he choose to stay with DGG?

He had a contract and he was stuck?

[JohnGavin]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:733addc2-c7f3-4c3c-aa71-8289712afac3

What I have never quite understood with Zimerman: when he was dissatisfied
with the sound of his recordings, why did he choose to stay with DGG?

He had a contract and he was stuck?
--
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers

I found the sound on the LP of Sonatas 1 & 2 more than acceptable.
The playing of these Sonatas is exceptional - on the refined side,
certainly when compared to Richter's more massive, orchestral approach
(also quite wonderful IMO).
Perhaps the transfers to CD are harsh?

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by JohnGavin
The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way. Have you heard
ABM in these?

One of my favorite recordings of anything, by anybody; certainly my
favorite ABM recording. He gives the first real tragic import and turns
the last into some kind of great romantic poem. Too bad the Schubert
sonata (the early A minor, D. 537) it's usually paired with is such a
static performance of a decidedly lesser work.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Prince Myshkin]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

In my opinion, Stephen Kovacevich's Philips recordings of late Brahms
is his finest achievement on record. Ferociously intense at times. I
can imagine some finding it overheated, but for me, it works. I have
long wished that he would record op. 5.

[Prince Myshkin]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

On a tangent, I see that next month, Murray Perahia is releasing a
Brahms album of the Handel Variations, Rhapsodies, op. 118 & 119.
Some don't like him, I know; think his playing pretty and bland. I
think of him as subtle. Usually the longer I live with his
performance of something, the more it grows on me.

[Doug McDonald]

My major problem with Brahm's solo piano music is that he didn't write
more of it in large forms as a youth. A term I hear used on his early
style is "granitic" and I think it applies well. The later works are
more subtle.

Doug McDonald

[mandryka]

On Oct 28, 6:28 pm, Doug McDonald

Post by Doug McDonald
My major problem with Brahm's solo piano music is that he didn't write
more of it in large forms as a youth. A term I hear used on his early
style is "granitic" and I think it applies well. The later works are
more subtle.
Doug McDonald

Well, there are the big sets of variations. A set of variations is a
large form, no?

But yes, not the same form as a sonata.

[Bob Harper]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Sorry to do this, but I'll mention a recording which, AFAIK, has never
been on CD and is unlikely to appear on CD. That is the live performance
of the Fantasies Op. 116 by Antonin Kubalek which appeared ca. 30 years
ago on a Citadel LP. To this day I've never heard another performance of
these pieces that matched this one. Total conviction--all the others
I've heard sound tame by comparison.

Bob Harper

[[e-mail]]

Post by Bob Harper
the live performance
of the Fantasies Op. 116 by Antonin Kubalek which appeared ca. 30 years
ago on a Citadel LP. To this day I've never heard another performance of
these pieces that matched this one. Total conviction--all the others
I've heard sound tame by comparison.
Bob Harper

There is hope. I've been helping Anton prepare and release some
recordings not available on commercial CD - one Dorian Brahms which
got shelved when Dorian got into trouble, plus some live recordings
and someLP's which never made it to CD. There are 6 to date (http://
tiny.cc/kubalek for an electronic brochure). The 7th (which we were
discussing today) will include that performance of the Brahms Op. 116.

[mandryka]

Post by ***@rogers.com

Post by Bob Harper
the live performance
of the Fantasies Op. 116 by Antonin Kubalek which appeared ca. 30 years
ago on a Citadel LP. To this day I've never heard another performance of
these pieces that matched this one. Total conviction--all the others
I've heard sound tame by comparison.
Bob Harper

There is hope. I've been helping Anton prepare and release some
recordings not available on commercial CD - one Dorian Brahms which
got shelved when Dorian got into trouble, plus some live recordings
and someLP's which never made it to CD. There are 6 to date (http://
tiny.cc/kubalek for an electronic brochure). The 7th (which we were
discussing today) will include that performance of the Brahms Op. 116.

http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=941911

[Paul Goldstein]

In article <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-***@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka says...

I like Brahms=92s piano music.
I=92ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it=92s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I=92m enjoying his music so much =96 early, middle and late =96 that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

I strongly recommend the relatively recent recording of op. 118 by Wu Han on an
Artist-Led CD that also features excellent recordings of the two cello sonatas
with David Finckel. Wu Han plays throughout with great imagination.

Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of Glenn
Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he plays with
remarkable feeling.

[mandryka]

Post by Paul Goldstein
mandryka says...

I like Brahms=92s piano music.
I=92ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it=92s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I=92m enjoying his music so much =96 early, middle and late =96 that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

I strongly recommend the relatively recent recording of op. 118 by Wu Han on an
Artist-Led CD that also features excellent recordings of the two cello sonatas
with David Finckel.  Wu Han plays throughout with great imagination.
Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of Glenn
Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he plays with
remarkable feeling.

Op 117/3 is very good in the final third, where he brings out the
counterpoint. Or maybe he finds voice which aren't really there. I
don't know. But it is memorable.

[O]

In article

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
mandryka says...

I like Brahms=92s piano music.
I=92ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it=92s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I=92m enjoying his music so much =96 early, middle and late =96 that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

I strongly recommend the relatively recent recording of op. 118 by Wu Han on an
Artist-Led CD that also features excellent recordings of the two cello sonatas
with David Finckel.  Wu Han plays throughout with great imagination.
Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of Glenn
Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he plays with
remarkable feeling.

Op 117/3 is very good in the final third, where he brings out the
counterpoint. Or maybe he finds voice which aren't really there. I
don't know. But it is memorable.

I was going to mention how good Gould is as well. On seccond thought,
I will.

-Owen

[mandryka]

It sure sounds like Moravec’s Nonsuch recording is good – but
unfortunately I can’t hear it!

The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
Kreisleriana and the Etudes.

I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
is on Meldyia.

And Cherkassky too -- I think his Handel Variations are supremely
entertaining. Same, but less so, for the PVs I think.

And me, I love Pogorelich -- especially in the Op 76 and 117/3. The
117/3 is completely off the wall in a way, but it's very nice poetry,
if you know what I mean. You can imagine Brahms spinning in his grave.

I think SE is being quite mean about the sound quality of Zimerman's
sonata. But being brutally accurate about the quality of the
interpretation :)

And I agree with Dirge about Annie Fischer's Hungarian Peasant
Songs.

[AGrey]

 It sure sounds like Moravec’s  Nonsuch recording is good – but
unfortunately I can’t hear it!
The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
Kreisleriana and the Etudes.
I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
is on Meldyia.
And Cherkassky too -- I think  his Handel Variations are supremely
entertaining. Same, but less so, for the PVs I think.
And me, I love Pogorelich -- especially in the Op 76 and 117/3. The
117/3 is completely off the wall in a way, but it's very nice poetry,
if you know what I mean. You can imagine Brahms spinning in his grave.
I think SE is being quite mean  about the sound quality of Zimerman's
sonata. But being brutally accurate about the quality of the
interpretation :)
And I agree with Dirge about  Annie Fischer's  Hungarian Peasant
Songs.

For the Handel Variations, I can suggest:-

Solomon
Moiseiwitsch - uneven but an antidote if you find many in this work
are dry or bloated
Arrau (Ermitage)
Bolet
Katchen

Not all of these conform to the request for 'sleepers' but probably
the first three do. And Bolet, if you can find a live performance
(none issued, AFAIK) rather than the studio LP.

Solomon's Intermezzo in B flat minor 117 no.2 is also one to hunt out.

Alan

[mandryka]

Post by AGrey

 It sure sounds like Moravec’s  Nonsuch recording is good – but
unfortunately I can’t hear it!
The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
Kreisleriana and the Etudes.
I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
is on Meldyia.
And Cherkassky too -- I think  his Handel Variations are supremely
entertaining. Same, but less so, for the PVs I think.
And me, I love Pogorelich -- especially in the Op 76 and 117/3. The
117/3 is completely off the wall in a way, but it's very nice poetry,
if you know what I mean. You can imagine Brahms spinning in his grave.
I think SE is being quite mean  about the sound quality of Zimerman's
sonata. But being brutally accurate about the quality of the
interpretation :)
And I agree with Dirge about  Annie Fischer's  Hungarian Peasant
Songs.

For the Handel Variations, I can suggest:-
Solomon
Moiseiwitsch - uneven but an antidote if you find many in this work
are dry or bloated
Arrau (Ermitage)
Bolet
Katchen
Not all of these conform to the request for 'sleepers' but probably
the first three do.  And Bolet, if you can find a live performance
(none issued, AFAIK) rather than the studio LP.
Solomon's Intermezzo in B flat minor 117 no.2 is also one to hunt out.
Alan

Talking of 117/2 I was picked up Ignaz Tiegerman's CDs on Arbiter
today and played it in the car. I enjoyed the Brahms -- including
117/2. But most of all the Romance 118/6. He makes it sound melancholy
and noble. Very different from Gieseking, who I normally listen to in
this. Gieseking is light and whimsical.

As far as the Handel Variations goes, I seem to play Lubimov most
these days. And Yudina.

The studio Bolet has never done much for me. It just seems slick and
flashy. You saw him play this one live did you?

Cherkassky's better on record IMO.

Moiseiwitsch recorded it twice -- I can't say I have noticed much
difference between them. I like them both.

And I like Arrau's live one.

Levy is another one who has never done much for me in this.

BTW the thing which impressed me most on the Tiegerman CD was the
Fauré -- such strong and powerful playing.

[Steve Emerson]

In article

It sure sounds like Moravec¹s Nonsuch recording is good ­ but
unfortunately I can¹t hear it!

The "Live in Brussels" CD on Supraphon is material from the same period.
Op 76/2 and Op 79/2 appear on both. Of the two Op 118 pieces on the
disc, he had previously done Op 118/2 (exquisitely) for Connoisseur. Op
118/1 appears only here AFAIK.

The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
Kreisleriana and the Etudes.

And the Fantasy CD includes the Liszt sonata as its coupling.

I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
is on Meldyia.

I like the HV on Melodiya, which is the only one I know. There's also an
Op 5, which I think came up here last spring.

SE.

[mandryka]

Op 76 is nice -- at least when Gieseking plays it. But maybe not when
Neuhaus plays it -- I think he sounds hard and he's too fast. And I
didn't find Gould very convincing in the couple he recorded, though I
can't remember why!

I know other pianists who have done odd ones from the set. Pogorelich
does one brilliantly, and it's very personal of course. Rubinstein did
one very nicely two, and Bashkirov did a couple.

Anyone else?-- I know Kempff recorded the whole set -- it's years
since I listened to it though. Probably it's pretty good.

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by mandryka
Op 76 is nice -- at least when Gieseking plays it. But maybe not when
Neuhaus plays it -- I think he sounds hard and he's too fast. And I
didn't find Gould very convincing in the couple he recorded, though I
can't remember why!
I know other pianists who have done odd ones from the set. Pogorelich
does one brilliantly, and it's very personal of course. Rubinstein did
one very nicely two, and Bashkirov did a couple.
Anyone else?-- I know Kempff recorded the whole set -- it's years
since I listened to it though. Probably it's pretty good.

Alexeev, who should have been mentioned long before now, does all of
Opus 76 in his exemplary set.

Firkusny recorded two of them. F's Brahms is well worth hearing,
although not sure how easy it is to find.

Katchen's complete Brahms naturally includes Op 76. Can it be that you
lack the Katchen box?

SE.

[pianomaven]

Post by mandryka
Op 76 is nice -- at least when Gieseking plays it. But maybe not when
Neuhaus plays it -- I think he sounds hard and he's too fast. And I
didn't find Gould very convincing in the couple he recorded, though I
can't remember why!
I know other pianists who have done odd ones from the set. Pogorelich
does one brilliantly, and it's very personal of course. Rubinstein did
one very nicely two, and Bashkirov did  a couple.
Anyone else?-- I know Kempff recorded the whole set -- it's years
since I listened to it though. Probably it's pretty good.

I recall a DG LP with John Lill playing Op. 76. Very good, indeed.

TD

[weary flake]

Post by mandryka
Op 76 is nice -- at least when Gieseking plays it. But maybe not when
Neuhaus plays it -- I think he sounds hard and he's too fast. And I
didn't find Gould very convincing in the couple he recorded, though I
can't remember why!

Walter Klien's opening of opus 76 on Vox sounds right to me,
others I've heard begin too fast. I'm set on Klien for
76 no. 1.

Post by mandryka
I know other pianists who have done odd ones from the set. Pogorelich
does one brilliantly, and it's very personal of course. Rubinstein did
one very nicely two, and Bashkirov did a couple.
Anyone else?-- I know Kempff recorded the whole set -- it's years
since I listened to it though. Probably it's pretty good.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Paul Goldstein
Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of
Glenn Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he
plays with remarkable feeling.

Made after he had his emotion circuits installed?

[HvT]

But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

The only version of the first sonata I revisit is Petrov's, on a Melodya CD,
coupled with Baskirov's version of the second sonata.

Among the many recordings of Op. 116-119 I like in particular Markus Groh's
on Avie. There is a certain ease in his approach to these pieces that
reminds me (vaguely, of course) of Rubinstein (the greatest Brahms
performer).

Gavrilyuk performs the Paganini Variations, if you want a truly brilliant
version by a youngster (in the way of Cziffra).

Henk

[mandryka]

Post by HvT

Post by mandryka
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

The only version of the first sonata I revisit is Petrov's, on a Melodya CD,
coupled with Baskirov's version of the second sonata.
Among the many recordings of Op. 116-119 I like in particular Markus Groh's
on Avie. There is a certain ease in his approach to these pieces that
reminds me (vaguely, of course) of Rubinstein (the greatest Brahms
performer).
Gavrilyuk performs the Paganini Variations, if you want a truly brilliant
version by a youngster (in the way of Cziffra).
Henk

I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
starting to enjoy them.

The Petrov is here, right?

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music for
me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

[M. A.]

Post by mandryka

Post by HvT
Gavrilyuk performs the Paganini Variations, if you want a truly
brilliant version by a youngster (in the way of Cziffra).

I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

I remember Cziffra's performance as quite straining and haven't revisited it
since.

In the Paganini Variations, my vote goes to Arrau, early Michelangeli and
Anda (BBC).

M. A.

[HvT]

Post by mandryka
I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such. My
favourite version is Anda's.

Post by mandryka
What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
starting to enjoy them.

I don't have Angelich's PVs. As a matter of fact I don't have any Angelich
recording. He's one of those excellent pianists I find it difficult to
listen to, for no obvious reason.

Post by mandryka
The Petrov is here, right?
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1_1?>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.

Post by mandryka
I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music for
me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

Petrov's version is also interesting because of the pianism. Petrov's
performance of the sonata proves that he could have been one of the very
great. Somehow it didn't work out that way. Perhaps he was too controlled
during live performances.

Henk

[mandryka]

Post by HvT

Post by mandryka
I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such. My
favourite version is Anda's.

Post by mandryka
What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
starting to enjoy them.

I don't have Angelich's PVs. As a matter of fact I don't have any Angelich
recording. He's one of those excellent pianists I find it difficult to
listen to, for no obvious reason.

Post by mandryka
The Petrov is here, right?
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/...>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.

Post by mandryka
I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music  for
me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

Petrov's version is also interesting because of the pianism. Petrov's
performance of the sonata proves that he could have been one of the very
great. Somehow it didn't work out that way. Perhaps he was too controlled
during live performances.
Henk

If you can find it there's a recording of a concert with some late
Brahms "floating" on the web which is the best I've heard from him --
better than the studio Brahms. Let me know if you can't find it and
you want to try it, and I'll upload it for you.

Another good concert of late Brahms floating around on the web is from
Cassard.

Lots of good French pianists these days. And yet only two French
conservetoires, I think (Paris and Lyon)

[mandryka]

I may as well put this here.

This recital from Sokolov -- which has quite a bit of late Brahms,
from a concert in Heidelberg in April this year, is well worth
catching. It's much better than his Op 118s on an old LP you may know.
Much less unctious.

There's also a Rotterdam (March 2010) concert in the same upload --
but the Heidelberg has excellent sound.

http://megaupload.com/?d=0UYZ50HG

Let me know if there's a problem and I'll put it on mediafire

[M. A.]

Post by mandryka
I may as well put this here.
This recital from Sokolov -- which has quite a bit of late Brahms,
from a concert in Heidelberg in April this year, is well worth
catching. It's much better than his Op 118s on an old LP you may know.
Much less unctious.

Thank you very much! I attended that recital in Heidelberg, but I missed
the Bach Partita due to heavy traffic.

M. A.

[pianomaven]

Post by mandryka

Post by HvT

Post by mandryka
I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such. My
favourite version is Anda's.

Post by mandryka
What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
starting to enjoy them.

I don't have Angelich's PVs. As a matter of fact I don't have any Angelich
recording. He's one of those excellent pianists I find it difficult to
listen to, for no obvious reason.

Post by mandryka
The Petrov is here, right?
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/...>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.

Post by mandryka
I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music  for
me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

Petrov's version is also interesting because of the pianism. Petrov's
performance of the sonata proves that he could have been one of the very
great. Somehow it didn't work out that way. Perhaps he was too controlled
during live performances.
Henk

If you can find it there's a recording of a concert with some late
Brahms "floating" on the web which is the best I've heard from him --
better than the studio Brahms. Let me know if you can't find it and
you want to try it, and I'll upload it for you.
Another good concert of late Brahms floating around on the web is from
Cassard.
Lots of good French pianists these days. And yet only two French
conservetoires, I think (Paris and Lyon)

Wrong.

They are all over the place.

Most have some affiliation with Paris. You know the French. Everything
starts and ends in Paris.

TD

[HvT]

Post by mandryka
If you can find it there's a recording of a concert with some late
Brahms "floating" on the web which is the best I've heard from him --
better than the studio Brahms. Let me know if you can't find it and
you want to try it, and I'll upload it for you.

Many thanks! I did find the Brahms.

Henk

[Steve Emerson]

Post by HvT

Post by mandryka
The Petrov is here, right?
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1
_1?>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.

I think B. recorded #2 twice, as with Schubert's D.664 and the Schumann
Fantasy. The Melodiya versions (as above) are usually preferable.

SE.

[Steve Emerson]

Post by HvT

Post by mandryka
I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such.

My thanks to Henk for mentioning this. I think I heard it only in part a
number of years ago and dismissed it out of hand for being over-the-top.

It may be that, but it's also magnificent. Cziffra really has an idea
worked out for the PV. Often demonic, even sinister, propelled by the
trademark FFFFFFs. Lisztian (no big surprise there), or simply a sendup
of soul-sold-to-devil fiddling.

I wouldn't hesitate to put it alongside ABM, Rodriguez, Arrau, and
Anievas. (I'm still making peace with Backhaus's Brahms, mentioned
elsewhere by Alan.)

SE.

[Steve Emerson]

In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff

Schumann Variations Webster

Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff

Rhapsodies Argerich and many others

Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas

Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez

Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

SE.

[mandryka]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others
SE.

That's the sort of thing I was expecting from you

The Masselos seems pretty hard to find. which is a shame because I’m
curious about what can be done with the first sonata. There’s a
torrent – but it looks dead.

Do you know the Kocsis Op 5? I don’t have the Bashkirov (I have the
second sonata)

I'm glad to see you mention Schliessman. I love his Schumann CD. So I
will get the Brahms -- I was looking for an excuse to buy it. Have you
heard his Goldberg Variations?

I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
time you're in London.

Rodriguez hmm? That's another one I don’t know anything about. I like
the Paganini Variations maybe more that any other Brahms piece.

Glad you mentioned Gieseking -- I get a lot of pleasure from his late
pieces. And the Op 76.

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms1s piano music.
I1ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it1s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I1m enjoying his music so much - early, middle and late - that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others
SE.

That's the sort of thing I was expecting from you

I forgot to mention Moravec's late Brahms, which is magnifique. Both
Connoisseur (and on VAI CD, I think) and Nonesuch. The Nonesuch is the
coupling for the splendid Kinderszenen (different from the Supraphon),
which I know you're curious about....

Post by mandryka
The Masselos seems pretty hard to find. which is a shame because I¹m
curious about what can be done with the first sonata. There¹s a
torrent ­ but it looks dead.
Do you know the Kocsis Op 5? I don¹t have the Bashkirov (I have the
second sonata)

I never got around to the Kocsis, which hung around at Berkshire for a
very long time. Thanks for suggesting it.

Bashkirov Melodiya -- you must hear it:

http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=32731

Post by mandryka
I'm glad to see you mention Schliessman. I love his Schumann CD. So I
will get the Brahms -- I was looking for an excuse to buy it. Have you
heard his Goldberg Variations?

No, but there are two Schumann CDs. A Kreisleriana/Sym. Etudes, and
another with a knockout Fantasy.

Post by mandryka
I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
time you're in London.

Check Youtube. I can vouch for the transfer.

Post by mandryka
Rodriguez hmm? That's another one I don¹t know anything about. I like
the Paganini Variations maybe more that any other Brahms piece.

Rodriguez is -- riveting.

http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Johann-Sebastian-Bach/dp/B00004WK6Z
/

They seem to offer MP3s as well.

Post by mandryka
Glad you mentioned Gieseking -- I get a lot of pleasure from his late
pieces. And the Op 76.

SE.

[mandryka]

Post by Steve Emerson

Post by mandryka
I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
time you're in London.

Check Youtube. I can vouch for the transfer.
SE.

Yes -- that's nice playing and nice music. Thanks for uploading it.

As it turns out I have a recording of it played by Vanessa Wagner --
but that performance is turgid by comparison.

There's Garrick Ohlsson now of course.

[Christopher Howell]

Post by mandryka
There's Garrick Ohlsson now of course.

Deszo Ranki for the op. 4 Scherzo.
His Brahms recital on Harmonia Mundi is generally fine but that's the
piece I remember particularly

Chris Howell

[pianomaven]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.

Katchen in Op. 5.

A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.
Katchen in Op. 5.
A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

I believe you mean the first Katchen recording, in mono. It's a terrific
performance, and one you and I have discussed many times. I even went so
far as to praise the acuity of including it in the Philips series, vs.
his later, stereo recording. I don't think it's as interesting as the
other Op 5's that I mentioned, but it's certainly noteworthy.

SE.

[pianomaven]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.
Katchen in Op. 5.
A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

I believe you mean the first Katchen recording, in mono. It's a terrific
performance, and one you and I have discussed many times. I even went so
far as to praise the acuity of including it in the Philips series, vs.
his later, stereo recording. I don't think it's as interesting as the
other Op 5's that I mentioned, but it's certainly noteworthy.

Well, I put it right up at the top.
I certainly had no memory of your prior advocacy. Steve.

Mind you, this is weak Brahms in my opinion. The last two
movements are almost embarrassing, whoever plays it.

TD

[JohnGavin]

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.
Katchen in Op. 5.
A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

I believe you mean the first Katchen recording, in mono. It's a terrific
performance, and one you and I have discussed many times. I even went so
far as to praise the acuity of including it in the Philips series, vs.
his later, stereo recording. I don't think it's as interesting as the
other Op 5's that I mentioned, but it's certainly noteworthy.

Well, I put it right up at the top.
I certainly had no memory of your prior advocacy. Steve.
Mind you, this is weak Brahms in my opinion. The last two
movements are almost embarrassing, whoever plays it.
TD

The last mvt of op. 5 strikes me as structurally chaotic - but it's
endearing in a youthful/heroic sort of way, don't you think?

By the way, since you have the ZImerman set, what is your opinion of
his op. 10 Ballades?

[pianomaven]

Post by JohnGavin

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by pianomaven

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

I like Brahms¹s piano music.
I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
Schumann Variations Webster
Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.
Katchen in Op. 5.
A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

I believe you mean the first Katchen recording, in mono. It's a terrific
performance, and one you and I have discussed many times. I even went so
far as to praise the acuity of including it in the Philips series, vs.
his later, stereo recording. I don't think it's as interesting as the
other Op 5's that I mentioned, but it's certainly noteworthy.

Well, I put it right up at the top.
I certainly had no memory of your prior advocacy. Steve.
Mind you, this is weak Brahms in my opinion. The last two
movements are almost embarrassing, whoever plays it.
TD

The last mvt of op. 5 strikes me as structurally chaotic - but it's
endearing in a youthful/heroic sort of way, don't you think?

Well, it IS youthful, but another word might be childish? Endearing?
LIke a child who whines all the time?

Post by JohnGavin
By the way, since you have the ZImerman set, what is your opinion of
his op. 10 Ballades?

I have to say, John, that it has ben ages - decades? - since I
listened to them. Not my favourite pieces by Brahms, I would hasten to
add. So, no opinion. I do like and remember ABM's Brahms Ballades,
specially No. 4 which always reminds me of Faure somehow. And Gould,
because of its deconstructed quality.

Kempff and Kovacevich are also very fine, in my opinion.

But as I say, Op. 10 is not among my list of great Brahms. I prefer
the Variations on an original theme. Now there's the Brahms I like.

TD

[Dirge]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Sonata No. 3, Op. 5
• Annie Fischer [BBC Legends; live, rec. 1961]

3 Intermezzi, Op. 117
Rhapsody, Op. 79/2
Capriccio, Op. 76/2
• Ivan Moravec [Nonesuch; rec. 1982]

Fischer's rugged and gripping account of the Sonata has a unifying
sense of sweep and momentum that holds the rather unruly work together
like no other account I've heard. There's no pussyfooting around
trying to commune with Brahms here: she sets her sights on the
overarching objective, sets things in motion and establishes her
groove, and then goes for it, always keeping her eye on the prize and
never letting herself get bogged down in the minutia along the way --
it's all very purposeful. The music, whether fast or slow,
rambunctious or reflective, responds by coalescing and cohering with
an unfussy eloquence that's both refreshing and compelling. (The CD
program also includes what is by far my favorite account of Bartók's
15 Hungarian Peasant Songs.)

Moravec's studio recordings of some later works, on the other hand,
have a well-practiced perfection that is perfect (as perfection tends
to be). Everything is phrased just so and executed with a beguiling
touch and sense of timing that makes all other accounts (including his
own) sound wrong somehow. This is especially true of this account of
the Op. 117 Intermezzi, which has long since ruined me for all
others. The Rhapsody in G minor may be a touch too reserved, but it's
phrased so well that I don't care. (The album also includes my
favorite accounts of Schumann's «Kinderszenen» and «Arabesque»; none
of the recordings on this album have ever been issued on CD so far as
I know.)

JR

[Andrej Kluge]

Hi,

Post by mandryka
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through
normal channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his
music, and so on.

I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music. However,
not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend or condemn him.
I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what the heck :-)

Ciao
AK

[Alan Cooper]

Post by Andrej Kluge
Hi,

But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late –
that I am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have
discovered, any stuff you have found on line which may not be
available through normal channels, any younger pianists who are
successful in his music, and so on.

I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano
music. However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare
to recommend or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has
mentioned him yet, so what the heck :-)

And speaking of the unmentioned (unless I missed it), am I the only one who is a
fan of Backhaus's Brahms from the '30s? I mean, Moravec, Katchen, et al, aren't
exactly "sleepers" or "younger pianists," although they're more recent than
Backhaus, I suppose. I still find his Paganini Variations jaw-dropping, and on
Naxos they're c/w a breathtaking d-m concerto. The Naxos companion CD of solo
works includes many splendid performances. And speaking of historicals, for the
op. 5 sonata does anyone listen to Bauer or Fischer any more? Their performances
stands up well in comparison to the likes of Gelber and Sokolov (two other
favorites of mine), imo. I should confess that I'm not a huge fan of the piece,
though.

I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has been mentioned
already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially) Handel Variations.

AC

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Alan Cooper
I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has been
mentioned already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially) Handel
Variations.

Considering all the stuff EMI has already issued on CD over and over again,
it's a crying shame these great performances aren't among them. Maybe I'll
mention to Gus on Facebook that his Brahms recordings have many admirers.

[Gerard]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Alan Cooper
I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has
been mentioned already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially)
Handel Variations.

Considering all the stuff EMI has already issued on CD over and over
again, it's a crying shame these great performances aren't among
them. Maybe I'll mention to Gus on Facebook that his Brahms
recordings have many admirers.

You'ld better put Schwarzenegger on this world shocking affair.

[JohnGavin]

Post by Andrej Kluge
Hi,

Post by mandryka
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through
normal channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his
music, and so on.

I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music. However,
not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend or condemn him.
I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what the heck :-)
Ciao
AK

Not sure how available Rosel's recordings are. I have a Bach-Busoni
CD of his.
Strong technique - very very straightforward playing - to the extreme
I'd say.

I do remember seeing his Brahms on the shelves about a decade ago.

[Andrej Kluge]

Hi,

Post by JohnGavin
Not sure how available Rosel's recordings are.

It seems to be readily available, also as MP3 (at least here in Germany):

http://www.amazon.de/Brahms-J--Klavierwerke-Peter-R%C3%B6sel/dp/B0006TROEK/

Ciao
AK

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Andrej Kluge
I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.
However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
the heck

I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them. No fancy tricks, yet, as
with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
music.

In the meantime, why has no one mentioned Lupu? His Opp. 117 & 119 haven't
been beaten by anyone I know, and his 118 isn't exactly the proverbial
chopped liver, either. I also recall a very good rendition of the piano
version of the variations movement from the Op. 18 sextet.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[CharlesSmith]

I think Peter R sel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.
However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
the heck

I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them.  No fancy tricks, yet, as
with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
music.

Thanks for this recommendation. Available at bargain price in the UK,
and from the samples sounds like good straightforward playing, so I've
sent for the set.

In the meantime, why has no one mentioned Lupu?  His Opp. 117 & 119 haven't
been beaten by anyone I know, and his 118 isn't exactly the proverbial
chopped liver, either.  I also recall a very good rendition of the piano
version of the variations movement from the Op. 18 sextet.

I like lots of Lupu's playing but I find his Brahms too dreamy. Lives
in a completely different world from Rösel.

Charles

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by CharlesSmith

I think Peter R sel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.
However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
the heck

I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them.  No fancy tricks, yet, as
with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
music.

Thanks for this recommendation. Available at bargain price in the UK,
and from the samples sounds like good straightforward playing, so I've
sent for the set.

In the meantime, why has no one mentioned Lupu?  His Opp. 117 & 119 haven't
been beaten by anyone I know, and his 118 isn't exactly the proverbial
chopped liver, either.  I also recall a very good rendition of the piano
version of the variations movement from the Op. 18 sextet.

I like lots of Lupu's playing but I find his Brahms too dreamy.

That has been my reservation about it too. But I have to admit, it has
grown on me. In part -- it seems a little more anchored, and a little
more gutsy and virile, when heard via the LP, which has a more robust
sound.

Post by CharlesSmith
Lives in a completely different world from Rösel.

[dunno Rosel]

SE.

[CharlesSmith]

Post by CharlesSmith

I think Peter R sel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.
However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
the heck

I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them.  No fancy tricks, yet, as
with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
music.

Thanks for this recommendation. Available at bargain price in the UK,
and from the samples sounds like good straightforward playing, so I've
sent for the set.

The Peter Rösel box has arrived and I've listened to the lot. All
recorded in 1974/5. The basic ethos is of superb clarity - playing,
piano, recording. Tempi are generally on the faster side, no hanging
around. Extremely effective in the variations and faster pieces (eg
capriccios 116/1 and 7). Beautiful touch in the more poetic late
works, but still keeps them moving along. One specific quibble I have
is 117/2 which, although marked andante he takes at a brisk
allegretto, finishing in under 4 mins (others generally take 4.30 -
5.30).

So I'm pleased with the purchase (5 CDs for £14.99).

Charles

[Ray Hall]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known Brahmsian,
anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?

Ray Hall, Taree

PS: and how about Fleisher in this repertoire?

[Gerard]

Post by Ray Hall
There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known
Brahmsian, anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?

I have those on Brilliant Classics (I suppose they are Denon recordings). But
I'm not a 'known Brahmsian' re his piano works.

[Ray Hall]

Post by Gerard

Post by Ray Hall
There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known
Brahmsian, anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?

I have those on Brilliant Classics (I suppose they are Denon recordings). But
I'm not a 'known Brahmsian' re his piano works.

Have this box. Thx for reminding me.

Ray Hall, Taree

[wimpie]

Post by Ray Hall

I like Brahms s piano music.
I ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I m enjoying his music so much early, middle and late that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known Brahmsian,
anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?
Ray Hall, Taree
PS: and how about Fleisher in this repertoire?

As far as I remember Fleisher only recorded the Handel Variations and
the Walzes op 39, but they are good!

W.

[mandryka]

I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.

We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.

None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.

Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.

Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.

The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.

Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .

Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.

[Bob Lombard]

"mandryka" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:99e95d33-10c0-4556-9f40-***@t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.

We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.

None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.

Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.

Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.

The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.

Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .

Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.

I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is interpretation
squared. The musician interprets the score, and then you interpret the
music - emotionally. Then you put your interpretation of the interpretation
into words as best you can. What your readers gain from this is the
knowledge that some of the music you heard works on you. This knowledge has
a positive value, but it is not great. There probably is a Latin phrase (or
a pseudo-Latin phrase) for this. The pseudo-Latin phrase may not include the
word 'carborundum'.

bl

[David Wake]

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation
squared. The musician interprets the score, and then you interpret the
music - emotionally. Then you put your interpretation of the
interpretation
into words as best you can. What your readers gain from this is the
knowledge that some of the music you heard works on you. This
knowledge has
a positive value, but it is not great. There probably is a Latin phrase (or
a pseudo-Latin phrase) for this. The pseudo-Latin phrase may not include the
word 'carborundum'.
bl

Posts like this are the best thing about rmcr, in my opinion. To each
his own...

David

[Gerard]

Post by David Wake

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on
it - it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As
usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina,
Gieseking, Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and
Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but
maybe not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear
these guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable
music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but
just so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by
lapsing into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation
squared. The musician interprets the score, and then you interpret the
music - emotionally. Then you put your interpretation of the
interpretation
into words as best you can. What your readers gain from this is the
knowledge that some of the music you heard works on you. This knowledge has
a positive value, but it is not great. There probably is a Latin phrase (or
a pseudo-Latin phrase) for this. The pseudo-Latin phrase may not include the
word 'carborundum'.
bl

Posts like this are the best thing about rmcr, in my opinion. To each
his own...
David

Maybe, if Lombard should make a very clearly visible difference between his own
words and the words he quotes (he did not make any).

[CharlesSmith]

Post by Bob Lombard
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is interpretation
squared. The musician interprets the score, and then you interpret the
music - emotionally. Then you put your interpretation of the interpretation
into words as best you can.

Much preferred to posts that say nothing.

Charles

[Norman Schwartz]

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Bob Lombard
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation squared. The musician interprets the score, and then
you interpret the music - emotionally. Then you put your
interpretation of the interpretation into words as best you can.

Much preferred to posts that say nothing.

They are equal to virtually nothing, except one given particular listener's
feelings on one particular given occassion.

Post by CharlesSmith
Charles

[CharlesSmith]

Post by Norman Schwartz

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Bob Lombard
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation squared. The musician interprets the score, and then
you interpret the music - emotionally. Then you put your
interpretation of the interpretation into words as best you can.

Much preferred to posts that say nothing.

They are equal to virtually nothing, except one given particular listener's
feelings on one particular given occassion.

That may be your particular opinion, on this particular given
occasion, but I don't share it.

[Norman Schwartz]

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Norman Schwartz

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Bob Lombard
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation squared. The musician interprets the score, and then
you interpret the music - emotionally. Then you put your
interpretation of the interpretation into words as best you can.

Much preferred to posts that say nothing.

They are equal to virtually nothing, except one given particular listener's
feelings on one particular given occassion.

That may be your particular opinion, on this particular given
occasion, but I don't share it.

Sure but for one example, a particular conductor (Lenny) is going to give us
recordings of a particular work (P.I.T's Sym No. 6) on differing particular
occasions. Actually it goes on all the time, artists see things differently
at different times, why then shouldn't the listener?

[CharlesSmith]

Post by Norman Schwartz

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Norman Schwartz

Post by CharlesSmith

Post by Bob Lombard
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation squared. The musician interprets the score, and then
you interpret the music - emotionally. Then you put your
interpretation of the interpretation into words as best you can.

Much preferred to posts that say nothing.

They are equal to virtually nothing, except one given particular listener's
feelings on one particular given occassion.

That may be your particular opinion, on this particular given
occasion, but I don't share it.

Sure but for one example, a particular conductor (Lenny) is going to give us
recordings of a particular work (P.I.T's Sym No. 6) on differing particular
occasions. Actually it goes on all the time, artists see things differently
at different times, why then shouldn't the listener?

Absolutely, I agree with all of that. Hearing a work differently on
different occasions is a part of the pleasure. My objection was to the
implication - which I thought I read in your post - that a consequence
of this argument was that a posting here about a personal response to
a performance was "equal to virtually nothing". I enjoy reading these
posts. Sometimes an interpretation that's different from my own can
send me back to the music with new ears.

Charles

[Norman Schwartz]

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.
I hope you realize that what you are passing on to us is
interpretation squared. The musician interprets the score, and then
you interpret the music - emotionally. Then you put your
interpretation of the interpretation into words as best you can. What
your readers gain from this is the knowledge that some of the music
you heard works on you. This knowledge has a positive value, but it
is not great. There probably is a Latin phrase (or a pseudo-Latin
phrase) for this. The pseudo-Latin phrase may not include the word
'carborundum'.

As you are undoubtedly aware this applies to nearly everything on this ng.
Moreover the same listener might have different opinions at some later time
all depending on his/her 'mood'.

Post by mandryka
bl

[HvT]

Post by Norman Schwartz
As you are undoubtedly aware this applies to nearly everything on this ng.
Moreover the same listener might have different opinions at some later
time all depending on his/her 'mood'.

Indeed! It makes one wonder. Why is there something rather than nothing (to
paraphrase Leibniz)?

Henk

[David Wake]

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.

Your description of Richter in Hungary sounds like my memory of Richter
in Leipzig (which apparently made less of an impact on you). Oh well, I
shall have to get the Hungarian recording as well. Thanks for the
post!

David

[mandryka]

Post by David Wake

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.

Your description of Richter in Hungary sounds like my memory of Richter
in Leipzig (which apparently made less of an impact on you).  Oh well, I
shall have to get the  Hungarian recording as well.  Thanks for the
post!
David

The description is really Yudina’s, or at least I was aware of what
Yudina wrote about 118/6:

"We hear the despair of soul and human fate about the destiny of the
passing life in the variety of rhythmic shifts, in movements of the
center of gravity, in the pile-up of foreign harmonies. The wrongs of
the sinful past tear the soul and heart apart. However, the torn soul,
its broken pieces, or rather its sawdust, is picked up by the calming
gigantic wings of archangels in the enormous arches of chords through
the whole keyboard, in the unthinkable range of swift modulations. The
fragments of nearly late repentance are collected in the treasury of
Forgiveness in the minor, in the depression of the minor, in the
pianissimo at the very end of the "Universal Drama.”"

The interesting thing is, as far as I can hear, she doesn't play it
like that at all!

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by mandryka
I put together a playlist today with a large handful Op 118/6s on it -
it's quite striking the variety of styles in this piece. As usual.
We had - Lupu, Rubinstein (a very early recording), Kempff (1950s),
Afanassiev, Richter (twice - Hungary and Leipzig), Yudina, Gieseking,
Ranki, Nichols Angelich, Van Cliburn, Gould, Grimaud and Zilberstien.
None of them were turkeys. Some were excellent performances but maybe
not very interesting. Ranki, Angelich, Zilbersiien.
Others made good poetry - Gieseking, Kempff, Rubinstein, Gould,
Grimaud, Van Cliburn and Richter in Leipzig, Lupu . You can hear these
guys love Brahms and they make very amusing and enjoyable music.
Some were so strange that I need more time to understand what they
were up to - Afanassiev is like this. A noble interpretation but just
so different, I wonder what he thinks this music is about.
The ones that sort of leapt out and said "hey - this music really
matters" were Yudina and Richter in 1954 in Hungary.
Brutal Yudina. The only way of describing what she does is by lapsing
into clichés and metaphors - granite, tidal wave, force of
nature . . .
Richter in 1954 is so poetic it's unbelievable. He makes the
intermezzo tell a story - terrible anguish followed by unchained
wildness followed by something which I can't find the words for -
stillness maybe.

Thanks for your survey. A magnificent piece to call attention to.

I haven't heard Yudina or either of the Richters.

There are two by Grimaud. I hope you have the one on Erato, recorded
beautifully on a splendid Hamburg Steinway. Have the low notes on a
piano ever been more extraordinarily used than in the late Brahms
intermezzi?

Grimaud's Erato account is celebratory and rapturous in the B section.
Her take makes better sense to me than the description you give above,
but maybe that would change if I heard Richter.

Leonskaja's is similar to Grimaud's, although she is slower by about 45
seconds. Her B section isn't as big as Grimaud's, but when heard in
context, it produces a similar effect. Hers is recorded wonderfully as
well, on a 1901 Steinway undoubtedly of the German variety.

Lupu struck me as too attenuated. Gieseking and Firkusny too
matter-of-fact. I love Cliburn's set, but his 118-6, in isolation,
didn't particularly stand out.

Katchen is terrific. Alexeev's B section is unusual; more staccato than
most, an effect that works although it's still not my favorite way. His
B section is also extremely loud. I suspect the meter is about pegged
here, but knowing Richter and Yudina, that could be wrong.

SE.

[mandryka]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
There are two by Grimaud. I hope you have the one on Erato, recorded
beautifully on a splendid Hamburg Steinway. Have the low notes on a
piano ever been more extraordinarily used than in the late Brahms
intermezzi?
SE.

Good point.

I had the DG Brahms when I listened last week, but I managed to find
the Erato CD today. And yes, it’s a considerably richer experience.

One thing that has stayed with me all day is some growling in the LH
just as the second section makes its transition in third (I’ll find
timings if anyone is interested). I guess that's the sort of thing
that you meant by the comment on low notes.

So what happened to her betweem Erato and DG? And I wonder how many
people have undervalued her Brahms as a result of the DG album.

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
I haven't heard Yudina or either of the Richters. . . .
Grimaud's Erato account is celebratory and rapturous in the B section.
Her take makes better sense to me than the description you give above,
but maybe that would change if I heard Richter.
SE.

One thing about Richter 1954 is that the bass voices sound so spooky
and mysterious in the opening of the piece. And Yudina – well you wait
till you hear what she does with the low notes – I think you’re in for
a surprise:)

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
There are two by Grimaud. I hope you have the one on Erato, recorded
beautifully on a splendid Hamburg Steinway. Have the low notes on a
piano ever been more extraordinarily used than in the late Brahms
intermezzi?
SE.

Good point.
I had the DG Brahms when I listened last week, but I managed to find
the Erato CD today. And yes, it¹s a considerably richer experience.
One thing that has stayed with me all day is some growling in the LH
just as the second section makes its transition in third (I¹ll find
timings if anyone is interested). I guess that's the sort of thing
that you meant by the comment on low notes.

Yes, there's a lot of growling. I wouldn't mind knowing the timing for
what you mention, in something we both have.

Post by mandryka
So what happened to her betweem Erato and DG? And I wonder how many
people have undervalued her Brahms as a result of the DG album.

There's a 118 on Denon too. I don't know her discography very well. Have
seen her perform and enjoyed it. I bought this Erato Brahms disc because
I happened to hear it in a store. It continues to please. I bought a
Schumann disc (Kreisleriana), also Erato IIRC, and got rid of it. (more
below)

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
I haven't heard Yudina or either of the Richters. . . .
Grimaud's Erato account is celebratory and rapturous in the B section.
Her take makes better sense to me than the description you give above,
but maybe that would change if I heard Richter.

One thing about Richter 1954 is that the bass voices sound so spooky
and mysterious in the opening of the piece. And Yudina ­ well you wait
till you hear what she does with the low notes ­ I think you¹re in for
a surprise:)

That does sound promising. What disc are Yudina's intermezzi found on?

SE.

[mandryka]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
There are two by Grimaud. I hope you have the one on Erato, recorded
beautifully on a splendid Hamburg Steinway. Have the low notes on a
piano ever been more extraordinarily used than in the lateBrahms
intermezzi?
SE.

Good point.
I had the DGBrahmswhen I listened last week, but I managed to find
the Erato CD today. And yes, it¹s a considerably richer experience.
One thing that has stayed with me all day is some  growling in the LH
just as the second section makes its transition in third (I¹ll find
timings if anyone is interested). I guess that's the sort of thing
that you meant by the comment on low notes.

Yes, there's a lot of growling. I wouldn't mind knowing the timing for
what you mention, in something we both have.

Post by mandryka
So what happened to her betweem Erato and DG? And I wonder how many
people have undervalued  herBrahmsas a result of the DG album.

There's a 118 on Denon too. I don't know her discography very well. Have
seen her perform and enjoyed it. I bought this EratoBrahmsdisc because
I happened to hear it in a store. It continues to please. I bought a
Schumann disc (Kreisleriana), also Erato IIRC, and got rid of it. (more
below)

Post by mandryka

Post by Steve Emerson
In article
I haven't heardYudinaor either of the Richters. . . .
Grimaud's Erato account is celebratory and rapturous in the B section.
Her take makes better sense to me than the description you give above,
but maybe that would change if I heard Richter.

One thing about Richter 1954 is that the bass voices sound so spooky
and mysterious in the opening of the piece. AndYudina­ well you wait
till you hear what she does with the low notes ­ I think you¹re in for
a surprise:)

That does sound promising. What disc areYudina'sintermezzi found on?
SE.

The bit from the Grimaud performance which I find so striking is at
2:58

Yudina's is here --
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maria-Yudina-Legacy-Vol/dp/B0009EM0WI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288808432&sr=1-1

[jrsnfld]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

I'm wondering if anyone else is fond of Brahms discs by Dubravka
Tomsic (op. 116, etc.), Francois-Frederic Guy (the sonatas--someone
here said Brahms was "granitic" and perhaps this is it, if perhaps too
much glint and angular muscularity for some listeners), and Antonio
Pampa-Baldi (Op. 79, PV) who makes a richly romantic, flexible
approach work beautifully.

--Jeff

[HvT]

Post by jrsnfld
I'm wondering if anyone else is fond of Brahms discs by Dubravka
Tomsic (op. 116, etc.), Francois-Frederic Guy (the sonatas--someone
here said Brahms was "granitic" and perhaps this is it, if perhaps too
much glint and angular muscularity for some listeners), and Antonio
Pampa-Baldi (Op. 79, PV) who makes a richly romantic, flexible
approach work beautifully.

Tomsic is a great pianist. I'll probably like her Brahms when I hear it.
There is nothing wrong with Guy's Brahms but nothing special either. I'm a
collector of Pompa-Baldi's recordings. He should have won the Cliburn,
instead of Olga Kern. His Brahms is great. Even Grieg's Norwegian dances
sound like great music when he performs them.

Henk

[gggg gggg]

Post by mandryka
I like Brahms’s piano music.
I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.
I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

(Upcoming radio broadcast):

https://www.wfmt.com/programs/collectors-corner-with-henry-fogel/