Discussion:
Rattle goes to Munich as from 2023
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RiRiIII
2021-01-11 16:50:40 UTC
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https://www.br-so.com/sir-simon-rattle-appointed-chief-conductor/
Andy Evans
2021-01-11 18:09:46 UTC
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I've never been a fan of Rattle, even though I knew him in college - he was in my RAM harmony class for a year. Always the whizz kid, but I never saw him as a great. Orchestras seem to like him.

Is he sharing this with the LSO or moving back to Germany? I'd be into a new conductor for the LSO if they could engage someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
Alex Brown
2021-01-11 18:24:39 UTC
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... someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
Honeck.

Well, one can dream.
--
- Alex Brown
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-01-11 19:47:23 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
... someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
Honeck.
Well, one can dream.
- Alex Brown
Honeck's contract with Pittsburgh has mirrored Muti's for a while. There's nobody I'd rather have here in Chicago.
Phl Maestro
2021-01-12 13:22:23 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
... someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
Honeck.
Well, one can dream.
- Alex Brown
Honeck's contract with Pittsburgh has mirrored Muti's for a while. There's nobody I'd rather have here in Chicago.
I've been predicting that would happen for probably 2-3 years, but if they haven't announced it yet, I'm afraid I'm now doubtful.
RiRiIII
2021-01-11 19:20:27 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I've never been a fan of Rattle, even though I knew him in college - he was in my RAM harmony class for a year. Always the whizz kid, but I never saw him as a great. Orchestras seem to like him.
Is he sharing this with the LSO or moving back to Germany? I'd be into a new conductor for the LSO if they could engage someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
Rattle quits the LSO in 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/11/simon-rattle-extends-contract-london-symphony-orchestra-conductor-bavarian

"Sir Simon Rattle is to leave the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO) in 2023 to become chief conductor of the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra in Munich. Rattle said his reasons for accepting the Munich job were “entirely personal, enabling me to better manage the balance of my work and be close enough to home to be present for my children in a meaningful way”. "His primary home is in Berlin where he lives with his wife, Magdalena Kožená, and their three children."
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-11 23:50:53 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I've never been a fan of Rattle, even though I knew him in college - he was in my RAM harmony class for a year. Always the whizz kid, but I never saw him as a great. Orchestras seem to like him.
Is he sharing this with the LSO or moving back to Germany? I'd be into a new conductor for the LSO if they could engage someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
"Throughout his career, Sir Simon has always stood for a spirit of openness, renewal and awakening within the world of classical music. These qualities made him even more the preferred candidate of the musicians of the BR Chorus and Symphonieorchester, who voted overwhelmingly in his favour. Sir Simon, now 65, will assume the role of Chief Conductor at the start of the 2023/24 season."

<https://www.br-so.com/sir-simon-rattle-appointed-chief-conductor/>

Elsewhere - I can't remember where - he admitted that his relationship with the Berlin Phil was often "stormy".

I wonder if the era of heavyweight conductors is over? Is Kirill Petrenko one? Robin Ticciati? Philippe Herreweghe? Sir John Eliot Gardiner? Francois-Xavier Roth?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-01-12 03:11:05 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Andy Evans
I've never been a fan of Rattle, even though I knew him in college - he was in my RAM harmony class for a year. Always the whizz kid, but I never saw him as a great. Orchestras seem to like him.
Is he sharing this with the LSO or moving back to Germany? I'd be into a new conductor for the LSO if they could engage someone of real musical heavyweight stature. Not sure who that would be these days.
"Throughout his career, Sir Simon has always stood for a spirit of openness, renewal and awakening within the world of classical music. These qualities made him even more the preferred candidate of the musicians of the BR Chorus and Symphonieorchester, who voted overwhelmingly in his favour. Sir Simon, now 65, will assume the role of Chief Conductor at the start of the 2023/24 season."
<https://www.br-so.com/sir-simon-rattle-appointed-chief-conductor/>
Elsewhere - I can't remember where - he admitted that his relationship with the Berlin Phil was often "stormy".
I wonder if the era of heavyweight conductors is over? Is Kirill Petrenko one? Robin Ticciati? Philippe Herreweghe? Sir John Eliot Gardiner? Francois-Xavier Roth?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Rattle is not much more than a living metronome imho. Relief for the LSO.

There are quality living conductors about, but most are not attached to the prestigious orchestras. Look to the provincial orchestras to start seeking out real quality. I think Haitink, Chailly, Ivan Fischer, Honeck, Muti, Blomstedt, Salonen, maybe Temirkanov, Gergiev, Nelsons, Vasily Petrenko, have accumulated some kudos above the norm, but unless the standard repertoire evolves as it rightly should, they are all seeking to extract blood out of stones long since leached by the greats. Imho.

Ray Hall, Taree
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-12 05:56:49 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Andrew Clarke
I wonder if the era of heavyweight conductors is over? Is Kirill Petrenko one? Robin Ticciati? Philippe Herreweghe? Sir John Eliot Gardiner? Francois-Xavier Roth?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Rattle is not much more than a living metronome imho. Relief for the LSO.
There are quality living conductors about, but most are not attached to the prestigious orchestras. Look to the provincial orchestras to start seeking out real quality. I think Haitink, Chailly, Ivan Fischer, Honeck, Muti, Blomstedt, Salonen, maybe Temirkanov, Gergiev, Nelsons, Vasily Petrenko, have accumulated some kudos above the norm, but unless the standard repertoire evolves as it rightly should, they are all seeking to extract blood out of stones long since leached by the greats. Imho.
If you're a Digital Concert Hall subscriber you might want to look at some of the late night concerts which Rattle directed with members of the Berlin Phil, particularly the 20th century Italians (Berio, Dallapiccolo). Not to mention the Great Schoenberg / Berg / Webern Event, when, IIR, the pieces were played with only a brief pause between them, i.e. as if a single work in several movements.

I'd certainly want to add Ivan Fischer to my little list, and possibly John Wilson (Sinfonia of London) whom I haven't heard yet. I suspect that the age of Romantic geniuses and fiery dictators on the podium is over.



Interestingly, the present Sinfonia of London, like its previous incarnations, is primarily a recording orchestra which gives the occasional concert. It seems to building a formidable reputation.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Andy Evans
2021-01-12 09:45:30 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
There are quality living conductors about, but most are not attached to the prestigious orchestras. Look to the provincial orchestras to start seeking out real quality. I think Haitink, Chailly, Ivan Fischer, Honeck, Muti, Blomstedt, Salonen, maybe Temirkanov, Gergiev, Nelsons, Vasily Petrenko, have accumulated some kudos above the norm, but unless the standard repertoire evolves as it rightly should, they are all seeking to extract blood out of stones long since leached by the greats. Imho.
Ray Hall, Taree
The "greats" operated in a musical world where classical music was still a big thing. The drop-off in public support for classical music must be de-motivating to aspiring musicians. I think we need to ask "where are the great conductors coming from now?". Probably not the conservatoires where conducting students do a lot of practising in front of mirrors and then enter international competitions to get seen. Traditionally many were opera repetiteurs and very good pianists who learned on the job. In a world of pandemics "learning on the job" is getting increasingly difficult.
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-12 12:19:04 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by ***@gmail.com
There are quality living conductors about, but most are not attached to the prestigious orchestras. Look to the provincial orchestras to start seeking out real quality. I think Haitink, Chailly, Ivan Fischer, Honeck, Muti, Blomstedt, Salonen, maybe Temirkanov, Gergiev, Nelsons, Vasily Petrenko, have accumulated some kudos above the norm, but unless the standard repertoire evolves as it rightly should, they are all seeking to extract blood out of stones long since leached by the greats. Imho.
Ray Hall, Taree
The "greats" operated in a musical world where classical music was still a big thing. The drop-off in public support for classical music must be de-motivating to aspiring musicians. I think we need to ask "where are the great conductors coming from now?". Probably not the conservatoires where conducting students do a lot of practising in front of mirrors and then enter international competitions to get seen. Traditionally many were opera repetiteurs and very good pianists who learned on the job. In a world of pandemics "learning on the job" is getting increasingly difficult.
It's worth noting that John Wilson and Ivan Fischer started their own orchestras, aiming to do what the big orchestral beasts could not or would not do. And this is in addition to the HIP bands started by Francois-Xavier Roth, Sir John Eliot Gardiner, et al.

For how much longer can London support *five* big beasts?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Phl Maestro
2021-01-12 13:24:29 UTC
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Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel that way about Muti as well)

He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the same orchestra.
dk
2021-01-12 19:20:14 UTC
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Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.

dk
Phl Maestro
2021-01-12 21:33:24 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
dk
Nathalie Stutzmann is one of the best and the Philadelphia just recently hired her as Principal Guest Conductor.
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-12 21:37:37 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
dk
Muti Merkel?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
dk
2021-01-13 01:44:47 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)

dk
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-14 04:38:04 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)
dk
You know, in the 1960s-1970s I'd probably have been able to name the musical directors of the major American and European orchestras off the top of my head. Those were the days when the Big Orchestras still made the lion's share of new orchestral recordings, which I'd hear on the radio or which - less frequently - I'd buy for myself. A couple of days ago I suddenly realised that apart from Elder at the Hall'e, Rattle at the LSO and Kirill Petrenko at the Berlin Philharmonic, I couldn't name a single one of them. I think this may be because either the BBs aren't recording, because they're too expensive, or they aren't producing recordings that I currently want to buy. I know about Elder because I like his Vaughan Williams and Elgar; I know about Petrenko / Rattle because I'm a Digital Concert Hall subscriber.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Herman
2021-01-14 08:54:36 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)
dk
You know, in the 1960s-1970s I'd probably have been able to name the musical directors of the major American and European orchestras off the top of my head. Those were the days when the Big Orchestras still made the lion's share of new orchestral recordings, which I'd hear on the radio or which - less frequently - I'd buy for myself. A couple of days ago I suddenly realised that apart from Elder at the Hall'e, Rattle at the LSO and Kirill Petrenko at the Berlin Philharmonic, I couldn't name a single one of them. I think this may be because either the BBs aren't recording, because they're too expensive, or they aren't producing recordings that I currently want to buy. I know about Elder because I like his Vaughan Williams and Elgar; I know about Petrenko / Rattle because I'm a Digital Concert Hall subscriber.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, off the top of my head: Jaap van Zweden @ NYPh; Salonen @ SF; nobody @ RCO; Orozco-Estrada @ Vienna.
Gerard
2021-01-14 09:53:33 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)
dk
You know, in the 1960s-1970s I'd probably have been able to name the musical directors of the major American and European orchestras off the top of my head. Those were the days when the Big Orchestras still made the lion's share of new orchestral recordings, which I'd hear on the radio or which - less frequently - I'd buy for myself. A couple of days ago I suddenly realised that apart from Elder at the Hall'e, Rattle at the LSO and Kirill Petrenko at the Berlin Philharmonic, I couldn't name a single one of them. I think this may be because either the BBs aren't recording, because they're too expensive, or they aren't producing recordings that I currently want to buy. I know about Elder because I like his Vaughan Williams and Elgar; I know about Petrenko / Rattle because I'm a Digital Concert Hall subscriber.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Does Vienna (Wiener Philharmoniker?) have a musical director nowadays?
Gerard
2021-01-14 09:56:18 UTC
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Post by Gerard
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:38:07 AM UTC+1,
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 5:37:39 AM UTC+8,
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)
dk
You know, in the 1960s-1970s I'd probably have been able to name the
musical directors of the major American and European orchestras off
the top of my head. Those were the days when the Big Orchestras still
made the lion's share of new orchestral recordings, which I'd hear on
the radio or which - less frequently - I'd buy for myself. A couple
of days ago I suddenly realised that apart from Elder at the Hall'e,
Rattle at the LSO and Kirill Petrenko at the Berlin Philharmonic, I
couldn't name a single one of them. I think this may be because
either the BBs aren't recording, because they're too expensive, or
they aren't producing recordings that I currently want to buy. I know
about Elder because I like his Vaughan Williams and Elgar; I know
about Petrenko / Rattle because I'm a Digital Concert Hall subscriber.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Does Vienna (Wiener Philharmoniker?) have a musical director nowadays?
O no, I see: Vienna Symphony Orchestra - really one of the "Big Orchestras"?
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-15 09:55:06 UTC
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Post by Gerard
Post by Gerard
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:38:07 AM UTC+1,
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 5:37:39 AM UTC+8,
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by dk
Post by Phl Maestro
Rattle seemed to be at his best early in his career. (I sometimes feel
that way about Muti as well)
He led several brilliant performances in Philadelphia during his early
appearances. But as the years went on, I thought there were more
disappointments than hits during his guest appearances with the
same orchestra.
The musical world needs to grow up and get out of its obsession
with male conductors. There are several women conductors on
the podium today who are frankly better with the baton than
most men.
Muti Merkel?
Have better conductors in mind! ;-)
dk
You know, in the 1960s-1970s I'd probably have been able to name the
musical directors of the major American and European orchestras off
the top of my head. Those were the days when the Big Orchestras still
made the lion's share of new orchestral recordings, which I'd hear on
the radio or which - less frequently - I'd buy for myself. A couple
of days ago I suddenly realised that apart from Elder at the Hall'e,
Rattle at the LSO and Kirill Petrenko at the Berlin Philharmonic, I
couldn't name a single one of them. I think this may be because
either the BBs aren't recording, because they're too expensive, or
they aren't producing recordings that I currently want to buy. I know
about Elder because I like his Vaughan Williams and Elgar; I know
about Petrenko / Rattle because I'm a Digital Concert Hall subscriber.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Does Vienna (Wiener Philharmoniker?) have a musical director nowadays?
O no, I see: Vienna Symphony Orchestra - really one of the "Big Orchestras"?
The point under discussion is *not* whether all the "big orchestras" have musical directors. Nor is anybody advancing the ludicrous argument that any orchestra with a musical director must necessarily be a big orchestra. Sorry.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Andrew Clarke
2021-01-15 09:49:05 UTC
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Post by Gerard
Does Vienna (Wiener Philharmoniker?) have a musical director nowadays?
According to

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Philharmonic>

only guest conductors. They used to have "subscription conductors" for subscription series until 1933.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
dk
2021-01-11 18:44:16 UTC
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Post by RiRiIII
https://www.br-so.com/sir-simon-rattle-appointed-chief-conductor/
He will wreck another great orchestra!

dk
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