Discussion:
Warner joining the complete Beethoven parade
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Randy Lane
2019-09-02 20:01:48 UTC
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Found on Amazon.de today

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07X7D9W6N
John Fowler
2019-09-03 11:09:40 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Found on Amazon.de today
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07X7D9W6N
Warner has 80 CDs for €102.47
DG has 118 CDs + 3 Blu-ray audio + 2 DVDs for €249.99 (German Amazon).
BUT the DG box has a lot of duplication:
At least four recordings of each symphony.
Five recordings of the 9th Symphony: Bernstein, Fricsay, Karajan (1962 and 1974), and Gardiner (on period instruments).
Curious to see the detailed contents of the Warner box for comparison.
John Fowler
2019-09-03 12:45:37 UTC
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I pre-ordered both boxes from Amazon DE(utschland) on September 3.
Prices are without VAT and include shipping to US.
DG box €213 DE = $233
Warner €89 DE = $97

I will cancel one of them in early November.
Mark Zimmer
2019-09-03 14:44:00 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Found on Amazon.de today
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07X7D9W6N
Warner has 80 CDs for €102.47
DG has 118 CDs + 3 Blu-ray audio + 2 DVDs for €249.99 (German Amazon).
At least four recordings of each symphony.
Five recordings of the 9th Symphony: Bernstein, Fricsay, Karajan (1962 and 1974), and Gardiner (on period instruments).
Curious to see the detailed contents of the Warner box for comparison.
Warner did not work with us at The Unheard Beethoven; DGG did. So I will be curious to see how "complete" Warner's box is, and what they're using for source material for a lot of the more obscure stuff, present only on small independent labels like Monument Records and Raptus (both now more or less defunct, though their copyrights are alive and well). For a lot of pieces there are only one or two recordings to work with (e.g. the WoO 99 Italian partsongs), but I suppose Warner may have newly recorded some things themselves.

And I assume no one will touch the big unrecorded chunk, Beethoven's counterpoint exercises and fugues written for his studies with Haydn and Albrechtsberger. Some of the fugues are quite nice little pieces. That's about five hours of music right there. Granted, not the most exciting stuff, but plenty of people record Bach's organ chorales, which IMHO would fall into the same boat.

Mark
Mark Zimmer
2019-09-03 14:51:50 UTC
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Post by Mark Zimmer
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Found on Amazon.de today
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07X7D9W6N
Warner has 80 CDs for €102.47
DG has 118 CDs + 3 Blu-ray audio + 2 DVDs for €249.99 (German Amazon).
At least four recordings of each symphony.
Five recordings of the 9th Symphony: Bernstein, Fricsay, Karajan (1962 and 1974), and Gardiner (on period instruments).
Curious to see the detailed contents of the Warner box for comparison.
Warner did not work with us at The Unheard Beethoven; DGG did. So I will be curious to see how "complete" Warner's box is, and what they're using for source material for a lot of the more obscure stuff, present only on small independent labels like Monument Records and Raptus (both now more or less defunct, though their copyrights are alive and well). For a lot of pieces there are only one or two recordings to work with (e.g. the WoO 99 Italian partsongs), but I suppose Warner may have newly recorded some things themselves.
And I assume no one will touch the big unrecorded chunk, Beethoven's counterpoint exercises and fugues written for his studies with Haydn and Albrechtsberger. Some of the fugues are quite nice little pieces. That's about five hours of music right there. Granted, not the most exciting stuff, but plenty of people record Bach's organ chorales, which IMHO would fall into the same boat.
Mark
I stand corrected on the last point. John Fowler's other thread includes this regarding the DGG box:

Disc101
1. 2-voice fugue Hess236
2.3 Voice Fugue Hess237
3. Six Fugues for Quartet Hess238
4. Coral Fugue Hess239
5. Five Double Fugues with Dual Confrontation (4 Voices) Hess243
6. Triple Fugue (4 Voices) Hess244
7. For String Quartet Fugue's Hess245 (Chapter)

So DGG is indeed including the most interesting things, though the exercises in strict counterpoint Hess 233 and 234 and exercises in free counterpoint Hess 235 are still without a home. We will see what Warner will do; I haven't heard anything about a Sony box but that could still be coming as well; both of these releases are over a year early for the 250th birthday.

Mark

Mark
John Fowler
2019-09-08 11:56:52 UTC
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Amazon UK and Amazon France have printed the contents of the first 33 CDs in the Warner Beethoven box:
BEETHOVEN: WARNER vs DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON

Symphonies:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962) BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG: individual symphonies (23) conducted by Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler, Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber, Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen, Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- DG: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw DVD VIDEO

Overtures:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler, Gardiner (period instruments), Klemperer, Szell
--- WA:
Creatures of Prometheus:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
Egmont Incidental Music:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA:
Ruins of Athens Incidental Music:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
Wellington’s Victory:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA:
Grosse Fugue (orchestra):
--- DG: Furtwangler

Concerti for Piano:
--- DG complete: fifteen pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden
Concerto for Violin:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan , Repin/Muti , Schneiderhan/Jochum , Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
Concerto for Violin (arr. piano):
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
Concerto for Piano, Violin & Cello:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
Fantasy for Piano, Chorus & Orchestra:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - or - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
Romances (2) for Violin & Orchestra:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - or - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim

Concerto for Piano WoO 4:
--- DG: Brautigam/Parrott
--- WA: Brautigam piano & cond.
Concerto for Violin WoO5:
--- DG: Kremer/Tchakarov
--- WA: Luca/Zinman
Rondo for Piano & Orchestra WoO 6:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - or - Richter/Sanderliong
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
Romance cantabile for Flute, Bassoon, Piano & Orchestra Hess 13:
--- DG: Gallois brothers, Chung piano & conductor
Mozart: Piano Concerto No.20 K.466 with cadenzas by Beethoven:
--- DG Serkin/Abbado

Piano Sonatas (32):
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG individual sonatas (57) played by Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil, Kempff (1951), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahaia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel, Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich

Violin Sonatas (10)
--- DG: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) , Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) , Mutter/ Orkis (7, 9) , Dumay/Pires (8-10) , Menuhin/Kempf (variations etc.)
--- WA:

Cello Sonatas (5):
--- DG complete: Maisky, Argerich
--- WA:

String Trios (5):
--- DG complete: Mutter, Giuranna, Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman, Zuckerman, Harrell

String Quartets
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet

Fidelio - Opera:
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Bernstein DVD VIDEO
--- WA:
Leonore - Opera:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA:
John Fowler
2019-09-08 15:54:37 UTC
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Concerti for Piano:
--- DG complete: fifteen recordings by ten pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden
Oscar
2019-09-09 01:34:02 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
As an integrale set, I really do like Kovacevich. I have returned to it at regular intervals over the years, and continue to find new insights in his playing. A bit strident on occasion and a recording that can be rather piercing at times, sure. But the artistry remains steadfast throughout.
Mark Zimmer
2019-09-09 14:47:19 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
BEETHOVEN: WARNER vs DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962) BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG: individual symphonies (23) conducted by Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler, Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber, Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen, Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- DG: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw DVD VIDEO
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler, Gardiner (period instruments), Klemperer, Szell
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Klee
--- DG: Karajan
--- DG: Furtwangler
--- DG complete: fifteen pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan , Repin/Muti , Schneiderhan/Jochum , Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - or - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - or - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
--- DG: Brautigam/Parrott
--- WA: Brautigam piano & cond.
--- DG: Kremer/Tchakarov
--- WA: Luca/Zinman
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - or - Richter/Sanderliong
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- DG: Gallois brothers, Chung piano & conductor
--- DG Serkin/Abbado
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG individual sonatas (57) played by Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil, Kempff (1951), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahaia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel, Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
Violin Sonatas (10)
--- DG: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) , Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) , Mutter/ Orkis (7, 9) , Dumay/Pires (8-10) , Menuhin/Kempf (variations etc.)
--- DG complete: Maisky, Argerich
--- DG complete: Mutter, Giuranna, Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman, Zuckerman, Harrell
String Quartets
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Bernstein DVD VIDEO
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
Doing the Lord's work here, John. A little bird tells me another Beethoven Big Birthday Box will be announced shortly, but I'm not at liberty to say whose just yet.

:) Thanks!

Mark
John Fowler
2019-09-09 15:51:33 UTC
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Doing the Lord's work here, John. A little bird tells me another Beethoven Big Birthday Box will be announced shortly, but I'm not at liberty to say whose just yet.
-- Mark Zimmer
Thanks for this update. One big conglomerate left to be heard from.

It's nice that the DG box includes so many duplicate versions of the major repertoire, but I already own 90% of these recordings. I also own the Song, Folksong and Miscellaneous Chamber Music volumes from the previous DG edition (most of their contents are carried over to the new edition). So I am a strong "maybe" for the DG box.

At present I am leaning toward the Warner box + the DG "Rarities" volume if it is issued separately on CD.
I don't have Warner's Harnoncourt Symphonies or Kovacevich Sonatas, so it's more attractive, especially at the price.
John Fowler
2019-09-09 01:15:24 UTC
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Correction:
Concerti for Piano:
--- DG complete: fifteen recordings by ten pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden
Post by Randy Lane
Found on Amazon.de today
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07X7D9W6N
John Fowler
2019-09-09 15:13:50 UTC
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Updated September 9 BEETHOVEN: MAJOR WORKS in WARNER BOX vs DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON BOX:
I still haven’t discovered the contents of CDs 34-80 in the Warner box on the internet.
In some cases I made an educated guess (indicated by ????????????)

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962) BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- DG: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw DVD VIDEO
OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA:
CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA:
RUINS OF ATHENS INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA:
GROSSE FUGUE (orchestra):
--- DG: Furtwangler (mono)
MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini ???????????????????????????????
MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Karajan (1966)
--- WA:
CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
FIDELIO:
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Bernstein DVD VIDEO
--- WA:
LEONORE:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA:

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden
CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan - Repin/Muti - Schneiderhan/Jochum - Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/BarenboiM

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) - Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6), - Mutter/Orkis (7,9) - Dumay/Pires (8-10) - Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA: Zukerman/ Barenboim ??????????????????????????????
CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder ???????????????????

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG: complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) & Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre ????????????????????????????
STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG complete: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets) - Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet

--------------- Unpublished Concerti:
Concerto for Piano WoO 4:
--- DG: Brautigam/Parrott
--- WA: Brautigam piano & cond.
Concerto for Violin WoO5:
--- DG: Kremer/Tchakarov
--- WA: Luca/Zinman
Rondo for Piano & Orchestra WoO 6:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Richter/Sanderling
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
Romance cantabile for Flute, Bassoon, Piano & Orchestra Hess 13:
--- DG: Gallois brothers/Chung piano & conductor
--- WA:
Mozart: Piano Concerto No.20 K.466 with cadenzas by Beethoven:
--- DG Serkin/Abbado
John Fowler
2019-09-12 19:28:01 UTC
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COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 12)
New from Naxos:
" So much more than just another Beethoven complete box! World premieres, rarities, fragments - Beethoven REALLY COMPLETE! (?)
Following the encyclopaedic approach of the label NAXOS, all of the unfinished works of Ludwig van Beethoven were recorded for this set of 90 CDs as well as alternative versions and Beethoven's transcriptions of his own works for various instrumentations. Thus, the NAXOS Beethoven Complete Edition contains many unique recordings and even several world premiere recordings that are only available on NAXOS.”
If this claim is true, and the Naxos box is REALLY COMPLETE, Naxos will have scooped the competition (prices are approximate).
-- Naxos: October 15 = 90 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475
-- DG: November 8 = 102 CDs (includes lots of duplications) + 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-rays + 2 DVDs = 240 Euros
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427
-- Warner: November 29 = 80 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

The DG box costs more than the Naxos and Warner combined.
The Warner box is modelled on that labels Berlioz and Debussy boxes, which means it comes with an extremely attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.
Based on past history and price, the DG box is the most likely to include texts and translations, but I’m just guessing.
I don’t know about the Naxos box.

MAJOR WORKS:
I don’t yet know the performer’s identities on Naxos.
I still haven’t uncovered the contents of CDs 34-80 in the Warner box. For some works I made an educated guess (indicated by ????????????)

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962) BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- DG: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw DVD VIDEO
OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA:
CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA:
RUINS OF ATHENS INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA:
GROSSE FUGUE (orchestra):
--- DG: Furtwangler (mono)
MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini ???????????????????????????????
MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Karajan (1966)
--- WA: Klemperer
CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
FIDELIO:
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Bernstein DVD VIDEO
--- WA: Klemperer
LEONORE:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA:

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan - Repin/Muti - Schneiderhan/Jochum - Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/BarenboiM

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) - Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6), - Mutter/Orkis (7,9) - Dumay/Pires (8-10) - Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA: Capucon/Braley
CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder ???????????????????

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG: complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) & Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre ????????????????????????????
STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG complete: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets) - Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they did not record the revised finale to Op.130 - a different recording will be used)
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-09-12 19:33:14 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 12)
" So much more than just another Beethoven complete box! World premieres, rarities, fragments - Beethoven REALLY COMPLETE! (?)
Following the encyclopaedic approach of the label NAXOS, all of the unfinished works of Ludwig van Beethoven were recorded for this set of 90 CDs as well as alternative versions and Beethoven's transcriptions of his own works for various instrumentations. Thus, the NAXOS Beethoven Complete Edition contains many unique recordings and even several world premiere recordings that are only available on NAXOS.”
If this claim is true, and the Naxos box is REALLY COMPLETE, Naxos will have scooped the competition (prices are approximate).
-- Naxos: October 15 = 90 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475
-- DG: November 8 = 102 CDs (includes lots of duplications) + 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-rays + 2 DVDs = 240 Euros
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427
-- Warner: November 29 = 80 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
The DG box costs more than the Naxos and Warner combined.
The Warner box is modelled on that labels Berlioz and Debussy boxes, which means it comes with an extremely attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.
Based on past history and price, the DG box is the most likely to include texts and translations, but I’m just guessing.
I don’t know about the Naxos box.
I don’t yet know the performer’s identities on Naxos.
I still haven’t uncovered the contents of CDs 34-80 in the Warner box. For some works I made an educated guess (indicated by ????????????)
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962) BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- DG: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- DG: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw DVD VIDEO
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Klee
--- DG: Karajan
--- DG: Furtwangler (mono)
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini ???????????????????????????????
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Karajan (1966)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- DG: Klee
--- DG: Abbado
--- DG: Bernstein DVD VIDEO
--- WA: Klemperer
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan - Repin/Muti - Schneiderhan/Jochum - Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/BarenboiM
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
--- DG: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) - Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6), - Mutter/Orkis (7,9) - Dumay/Pires (8-10) - Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA: Capucon/Braley
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder ???????????????????
--- DG: complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) & Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre ????????????????????????????
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet BLU-RAY AUDIO
--- DG complete: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets) - Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they did not record the revised finale to Op.130 - a different recording will be used)
Texts and translations are a biggie for me unless I can get them easily elsewhere. Why don;t Warner and Naxos put them up on the web so you can get them with a password or something?
John Fowler
2019-09-14 17:20:48 UTC
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COMPLETE BEETHOVEN = NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 14)

Naxos = 90 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475
DG = 102 CDs (many duplications) = 240 Euros (+ 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs)
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427
Warner = 80 CDs = 100 Euros
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

The DG box (November 8) is padded out with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Fricsay, Bernstein, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1974).
The DG box costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
Based on past history and price, the DG box is the most likely to include texts and translations, but that’s just a just guess.

The Warner box (November 29) is modelled on that label’s Berlioz and Debussy boxes, which means it comes with an extremely attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.

The Naxos box (October 25) is still a mystery.
One photo of the Naxos box shows what looks like a CD-ROM in a separate sleeve.
If it has texts for the vocal works, I hope Naxos remembered the English translations.

MAJOR WORKS:
Naxos has not yet identified the performers.
Warner has only identified the performers on CDs 1-33.
For some works I made an educated guess (indicated by ?????)

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic - 1962 (BLU-RAY AUDIO)
--- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD VIDEO)
--- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
--- NX complete:
OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA complete:
--- NX complete:
CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt
--- NX: Segerstam ?????
EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA:
--- NX:
RUINS OF ATHENS INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
--- NX:
WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA:
--- NX:
GROSSE FUGUE (orchestra):
--- DG: Furtwangler (mono)
--- WA:
--- NX:
MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini ?????
--- NX:
MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Karajan (1966) - and - Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX:
CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA:
--- NX:
FIDELIO:
--- DG: Abbado - and - Bernstein (DVD VIDEO)
--- WA: Klemperer
--- NX:
LEONORE:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA:
--- NX:

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
--- NX:
CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini
--- NX:
CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
--- NX:
CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
--- NX:
FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and - Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
--- NX:
ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and - Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
--- NX:

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY AUDIO)
--- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
--- NX complete:
CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder ?????
--- NX complete:
VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6), -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Capucon/Braley
--- NX complete:

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) & Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre ?????
--- NX complete:
STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
--- NX complete:
STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY AUDIO)
--- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
--- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (Artemis did not record the revised finale to Op.130 - a different recording will be used)
--- NX complete:
John Fowler
2019-09-16 12:04:10 UTC
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SEPTEMBER 16 - Warner has listed the contents of all 80 CDs on Amazon UK:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete-Works-Artemis-Quartet/dp/B07X7D9W6N/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5VKGK1WPA77Q00SDV0P2
John Fowler
2019-09-16 12:51:29 UTC
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FIRST DISAPPOINTMENT:
Beethoven composed two versions of Leonore (1805 and 1806).

The Warner box contains only the 1805 version - in Blomstedt's excellent recording: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568637654&s=music&sr=1-2
(the original Berlin Classics release has the text and translation).

The Naxos box contains only the 1805 version - performers not yet announced

The DG box contains only Gardiner's misguided hybrid of 1805 and 1806. This is inexcusable in a scholarly edition - like Deutsche Grammophon claims their box is.

Beethoven's 1806 version has only been recorded once - by Soustrot on the "other" DG: Dabringhaus und Grimm
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-version-Ludwig-van/dp/B00000G4MW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568638057&s=music&sr=1-1
(this has the text and translation).
RANDY WOLFGANG
2019-09-16 22:24:58 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Beethoven composed two versions of Leonore (1805 and 1806).
The Warner box contains only the 1805 version - in Blomstedt's excellent recording: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568637654&s=music&sr=1-2
(the original Berlin Classics release has the text and translation).
The Naxos box contains only the 1805 version - performers not yet announced
The DG box contains only Gardiner's misguided hybrid of 1805 and 1806. This is inexcusable in a scholarly edition - like Deutsche Grammophon claims their box is.
Beethoven's 1806 version has only been recorded once - by Soustrot on the "other" DG: Dabringhaus und Grimm
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-version-Ludwig-van/dp/B00000G4MW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568638057&s=music&sr=1-1
(this has the text and translation).
John - just to be sure, the link to the version of the Blomstedt Leonore you provided has the text and translation??
John Fowler
2019-09-17 10:42:02 UTC
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Post by RANDY WOLFGANG
John - just to be sure, the link to the version of the Blomstedt Leonore you provided has the text and translation??
Yes - on the Berlin Classics label - issued in 1996 - mostly blue cover.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore+blomstedt&qid=1568716825&s=music&sr=1-1
Mark Zimmer
2019-09-23 17:44:13 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Beethoven composed two versions of Leonore (1805 and 1806).
The Warner box contains only the 1805 version - in Blomstedt's excellent recording: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568637654&s=music&sr=1-2
(the original Berlin Classics release has the text and translation).
The Naxos box contains only the 1805 version - performers not yet announced
The DG box contains only Gardiner's misguided hybrid of 1805 and 1806. This is inexcusable in a scholarly edition - like Deutsche Grammophon claims their box is.
Beethoven's 1806 version has only been recorded once - by Soustrot on the "other" DG: Dabringhaus und Grimm
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-version-Ludwig-van/dp/B00000G4MW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568638057&s=music&sr=1-1
(this has the text and translation).
The main shortcoming of Blomstedt's 1805 version is that it's missing the Introduction to Act II (formerly catalogued as WoO 2b). I believe his recording was done before that was identified from paper types as belonging to the 1805 Leonore. So for a complete Leonore 1805 you need to insert that bit from elsewhere. I don't believe Blomstedt has ever recorded it.
John Fowler
2019-09-24 12:02:10 UTC
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The main shortcoming of Blomstedt's 1805 version is that it's missing the Introduction to Act II (formerly catalogued as WoO 2b). I believe his recording was done before that was identified from paper types as belonging to the 1805 Leonore. So for a complete Leonore 1805 you need to insert that bit from elsewhere. I don't believe Blomstedt has ever recorded it.

Warner includes WoO 2b on disc 2:

Disc: 11
1. Coriolan, Op.62 (2003 Remastered Version) - Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra
2. Overture in C Major, Op. 115, "Name Day" - Thomas Dausgaard
3. The Consecration of the House Op. 124: Overture "Die Weihe des Hauses" - Riccardo Muti
4. Fidelio : Overture to Leonore No.1, Op.138 - Daniel Barenboim
5. Introduction to Act 2 of the First Version of "Fidelio", WoO 2b - Thomas Dausgaard
6. Wellingtons Sieg, Op 91, Pt 1: Rule Britania - Thomas Dausgaard
7. Beethoven: Wellingtons Sieg, Op 91, Pt 1: Trommeln und Trompeten an der franzosischen Seite - Thomas Dausgaard
8. Wellingtons Sieg, Op. 91, Pt. 1: The Battle - Thomas Dausgaard
9. Wellingtons Sieg, Op. 91, Pt. 2: Victory - Thomas Dausgaard
10. March No. 1 for Military Band in F Major, WoO 18 - Karl Haas
11. March No. 2 for Military Band in F Major, WoO 19 - Karl Haas
12. March for Military Band, WoO 20 - Karl Haas
13. Polonaise for Military Band, WoO 21 - Gerhard Baumann
John Fowler
2019-09-25 13:31:18 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
Warner includes WoO 2b on disc 2
Correction: Disc 11 (track 5)

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