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New Thielemann Bruckner cycle (1-9) coming from Sony
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Oscar
2020-08-31 20:29:38 UTC
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John Berky's latest email from abruckner-dot-com, received this afternoon, announces a forthcoming Sony integrale of the Bruckner Symphonies recorded by Thielemann and the VPO.

<< Sony Classics will be releasing this fall a performance of Bruckner's Symphony No. 8 with Christian Thielemann conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. It is the first release in a projected cycle of Bruckner's Symphonies 1-9 that will be released with the same forces between now and 2024, the bicentennial of Bruckner's birth. The recordings will be released on CD. This will be Thielamann's second recorded cycle. The first was released on video with the Staatskapelle Dresden. An earlier cycle was started with the Munich Philharmonic, but that was abandoned when Thielamann moved to Dresden. >>

Buy the CDs from Arkiv links contained in the link below. It will help Berky's web site.

https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/news/sony-classics-to-record-a-bruckner-symphony-cycle/
Alex Brown
2020-09-01 08:52:44 UTC
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Post by Oscar
John Berky's latest email from abruckner-dot-com, received this afternoon, announces a forthcoming Sony integrale of the Bruckner Symphonies recorded by Thielemann and the VPO.
<< Sony Classics will be releasing this fall a performance of Bruckner's Symphony No. 8 with Christian Thielemann conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. It is the first release in a projected cycle of Bruckner's Symphonies 1-9 that will be released with the same forces between now and 2024, the bicentennial of Bruckner's birth. The recordings will be released on CD. This will be Thielamann's second recorded cycle. The first was released on video with the Staatskapelle Dresden. An earlier cycle was started with the Munich Philharmonic, but that was abandoned when Thielamann moved to Dresden. >>
Buy the CDs from Arkiv links contained in the link below. It will help Berky's web site.
https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/news/sony-classics-to-record-a-bruckner-symphony-cycle/
The Thielemann recording that I've heard put me in mind of Wolf's
criticism of Brahms, that he could not "exult". But one lives in hope!
Oscar
2020-09-01 21:56:05 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
The Thielemann recording that I've heard put me in mind of Wolf's
criticism of Brahms, that he could not "exult". But one lives in hope!
Alex, are you referring to the Thielemann's Fifth on DG? I'm no Thielemann "fanboy", but this is one of his finer recordings, IMHO. Btw, total running time is 82’36, stretching the bounds of redbook CD capacity. Recorded in the Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich, October 2004. Also, funny you should mention 'exult' . . .


From Classical Source:

<< This is a rich, sonorous account. Maybe the brass is too loud; perhaps Thielemann exults too easily. Yet for all the burnished majesty (or attempts at it) there is also much delicacy and chamber-music observations. As Thielemann remarks in his own booklet note … well, what does he observe? He is certainly self-aware and, as he says, if there is a Protestant way of conducting Bruckner, then maybe he embodies it. (He’s not a Catholic.) He talks about slowness … but that’s relative. (Celibidache in Bruckner 5 in Munich takes longer, on EMI, and yet he never seems slow – whatever that term, pejorative in a Celibidachian context, actually means.) Let the music speak for itself. Thielemann can’t quite do this; he is quite strict, the direction of the music is imposed on from external forces – the conductor; ‘significant’ moments are sign-posted. Progress becomes static. Thielemann has the advantage of antiphonal violins (double basses on the left) and a seasoned Bruckner orchestra in the Munich Philharmonic (Thielemann acknowledges this in his note – the only note; therefore first-time buyers are deprived a ‘proper’ essay on the music).

The first movement is something of a trial, and the Adagio is just as massive; at least its seems to have somewhere to go; long lines carry more charge, and expression has linear direction; even so, Thielemann cannot let the music off the leash. The final climaxes don’t ‘burn’ as they should, partly because textures are rather homogenised and the recording is not the most dynamically expansive. The scherzo dances heavily, too emphatically, and Thielemann can’t resist tweaking some phase ends; here and elsewhere the Munich strings tend to simper, presumably by design, and they’re a bit thin-sounding, too.

And so to the vast finale; even the clarinet’s Till Eulenspiegel-like interruption is ‘worked out’, and the fugal writing is made rather pedestrian. And so on. Overall: too heavy and dragging, and too calculated.

The recording quality disappoints and reverberation clouds the issue, literally, with fortissimos having an edgy quality as well as being a tad woolly (‘hollow’ comes to mind, too). The sound is cleaner, more tangible, at lower dynamics: yet the strings can sound mushy.

Thielemann has done some good things – his DG Heldenleben comes to mind – but this Bruckner is something of a marmoreal offering and one difficult to return to. Maybe it was too early for DG to send the microphones to Munich. >>


https://www.classicalsource.com/cd/bruckner-5-thielemann/
Frank Berger
2020-09-01 22:52:52 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Post by Alex Brown
The Thielemann recording that I've heard put me in mind of Wolf's
criticism of Brahms, that he could not "exult". But one lives in hope!
Alex, are you referring to the Thielemann's Fifth on DG? I'm no Thielemann "fanboy", but this is one of his finer recordings, IMHO. Btw, total running time is 82’36, stretching the bounds of redbook CD capacity. Recorded in the Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich, October 2004. Also, funny you should mention 'exult' . . .
<< This is a rich, sonorous account. Maybe the brass is too loud; perhaps Thielemann exults too easily. Yet for all the burnished majesty (or attempts at it) there is also much delicacy and chamber-music observations. As Thielemann remarks in his own booklet note … well, what does he observe? He is certainly self-aware and, as he says, if there is a Protestant way of conducting Bruckner, then maybe he embodies it. (He’s not a Catholic.) He talks about slowness … but that’s relative. (Celibidache in Bruckner 5 in Munich takes longer, on EMI, and yet he never seems slow – whatever that term, pejorative in a Celibidachian context, actually means.) Let the music speak for itself. Thielemann can’t quite do this; he is quite strict, the direction of the music is imposed on from external forces – the conductor; ‘significant’ moments are sign-posted. Progress becomes static. Thielemann has the advantage of antiphonal violins (double basses on the left) and a seasoned Bruckner orchestra in the Munich Philharmonic (Thielemann acknowledges this in his note – the only note; therefore first-time buyers are deprived a ‘proper’ essay on the music).
The first movement is something of a trial, and the Adagio is just as massive; at least its seems to have somewhere to go; long lines carry more charge, and expression has linear direction; even so, Thielemann cannot let the music off the leash. The final climaxes don’t ‘burn’ as they should, partly because textures are rather homogenised and the recording is not the most dynamically expansive. The scherzo dances heavily, too emphatically, and Thielemann can’t resist tweaking some phase ends; here and elsewhere the Munich strings tend to simper, presumably by design, and they’re a bit thin-sounding, too.
And so to the vast finale; even the clarinet’s Till Eulenspiegel-like interruption is ‘worked out’, and the fugal writing is made rather pedestrian. And so on. Overall: too heavy and dragging, and too calculated.
The recording quality disappoints and reverberation clouds the issue, literally, with fortissimos having an edgy quality as well as being a tad woolly (‘hollow’ comes to mind, too). The sound is cleaner, more tangible, at lower dynamics: yet the strings can sound mushy.
Thielemann has done some good things – his DG Heldenleben comes to mind – but this Bruckner is something of a marmoreal offering and one difficult to return to. Maybe it was too early for DG to send the microphones to Munich. >>
https://www.classicalsource.com/cd/bruckner-5-thielemann/
Among my ridiculously large collection, I am a little
surprised to see I have exactly one Thielemann disc. That
one is an aria collection by Quastoff. Why do I have so
few? First, I'm guessing not that many of his CDs have been
highly recommended here and elsewhere. Also, I have had 6
or so of his recordings that I culled. I must have thought
they were pretty bad because I rarely cull. I've come to
have a ho-hum reaction to seeing anything new by him. Of
course, I would welcome being enlightened as to
dk
2020-09-02 04:46:56 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Oscar
Post by Alex Brown
The Thielemann recording that I've heard put me in mind of Wolf's
criticism of Brahms, that he could not "exult". But one lives in hope!
Alex, are you referring to the Thielemann's Fifth on DG? I'm no Thielemann "fanboy", but this is one of his finer recordings, IMHO. Btw, total running time is 82’36, stretching the bounds of redbook CD capacity. Recorded in the Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich, October 2004. Also, funny you should mention 'exult' . . .
<< This is a rich, sonorous account. Maybe the brass is too loud; perhaps Thielemann exults too easily. Yet for all the burnished majesty (or attempts at it) there is also much delicacy and chamber-music observations. As Thielemann remarks in his own booklet note … well, what does he observe? He is certainly self-aware and, as he says, if there is a Protestant way of conducting Bruckner, then maybe he embodies it. (He’s not a Catholic.) He talks about slowness … but that’s relative. (Celibidache in Bruckner 5 in Munich takes longer, on EMI, and yet he never seems slow – whatever that term, pejorative in a Celibidachian context, actually means.) Let the music speak for itself. Thielemann can’t quite do this; he is quite strict, the direction of the music is imposed on from external forces – the conductor; ‘significant’ moments are sign-posted. Progress becomes static. Thielemann has the advantage of antiphonal violins (double basses on the left) and a seasoned Bruckner orchestra in the Munich Philharmonic (Thielemann acknowledges this in his note – the only note; therefore first-time buyers are deprived a ‘proper’ essay on the music).
The first movement is something of a trial, and the Adagio is just as massive; at least its seems to have somewhere to go; long lines carry more charge, and expression has linear direction; even so, Thielemann cannot let the music off the leash. The final climaxes don’t ‘burn’ as they should, partly because textures are rather homogenised and the recording is not the most dynamically expansive. The scherzo dances heavily, too emphatically, and Thielemann can’t resist tweaking some phase ends; here and elsewhere the Munich strings tend to simper, presumably by design, and they’re a bit thin-sounding, too.
And so to the vast finale; even the clarinet’s Till Eulenspiegel-like interruption is ‘worked out’, and the fugal writing is made rather pedestrian. And so on. Overall: too heavy and dragging, and too calculated.
The recording quality disappoints and reverberation clouds the issue, literally, with fortissimos having an edgy quality as well as being a tad woolly (‘hollow’ comes to mind, too). The sound is cleaner, more tangible, at lower dynamics: yet the strings can sound mushy.
Thielemann has done some good things – his DG Heldenleben comes to mind – but this Bruckner is something of a marmoreal offering and one difficult to return to. Maybe it was too early for DG to send the microphones to Munich. >>
https://www.classicalsource.com/cd/bruckner-5-thielemann/
Among my ridiculously large collection, I am a little
surprised to see I have exactly one Thielemann disc. That
one is an aria collection by Quastoff. Why do I have so
few? First, I'm guessing not that many of his CDs have been
highly recommended here and elsewhere. Also, I have had 6
or so of his recordings that I culled. I must have thought
they were pretty bad because I rarely cull. I've come to
have a ho-hum reaction to seeing anything new by him. Of
course, I would welcome being enlightened as to his merits.
..... you have one too many!

dk
Alex Brown
2020-09-02 06:12:57 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Post by Alex Brown
The Thielemann recording that I've heard put me in mind of Wolf's
criticism of Brahms, that he could not "exult". But one lives in hope!
Alex, are you referring to the Thielemann's Fifth on DG?
Typo. I should have put "recordings". I have Thielemann recordings of
Schumann, Bruckner (4 and 5), Brahms (symphonies & concertos), Orff,
Pfitzner, and R. Strauss, and have watched him on Berlin's "Digital
Concert Hall" conducting - at least - Fauré and .. Bruckner 8!

Of these, the Pfitzner disc I find most interesting, probably because it
has little competition. For the rest, it never falls below the level of
very good (well, the Philharmonia Schumann excepted) - Thielemann
conducts great orchestras and gets lovely sounds in performances of
great fit and finish. S-class Mercedes, all of them.

But isn't it all just a bit ... sub-Karajan? Massive, blended
sonorities, legato phrasing - but without the "nerve" and energy HvK
sometimes got ...
LarryLap
2020-09-02 15:14:54 UTC
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Post by Oscar
John Berky's latest email from abruckner-dot-com, received this afternoon, announces a forthcoming Sony integrale of the Bruckner Symphonies recorded by Thielemann and the VPO.
<< Sony Classics will be releasing this fall a performance of Bruckner's Symphony No. 8 with Christian Thielemann conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. It is the first release in a projected cycle of Bruckner's Symphonies 1-9 that will be released with the same forces between now and 2024, the bicentennial of Bruckner's birth. The recordings will be released on CD. This will be Thielamann's second recorded cycle. The first was released on video with the Staatskapelle Dresden. An earlier cycle was started with the Munich Philharmonic, but that was abandoned when Thielamann moved to Dresden. >>
Buy the CDs from Arkiv links contained in the link below. It will help Berky's web site.
https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/news/sony-classics-to-record-a-bruckner-symphony-cycle/
My interest in Christian Thielemann was extinguished forever by the feat he accomplished at the New Year concert of the Vienna Philharmonic, at which he made the works of Johann Strauss II, and those of his family members and rivals, sound dull, flat and lifeless. It was quite an achievement, to be sure, but not one to which I ever wish to be subjected again. Bruckner! The mind boggles!

Larry

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