Discussion:
More classical music in classic movies
(too old to reply)
A. Brain
2008-05-14 01:15:53 UTC
Permalink
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid
and Claude Rains. "Now, Voyager".

I'd never seen this one before. Davis
plays an introverted Boston Brahmin who struggles with
her sense that life has passed her by, then, with the
help of a sensible psychiatrist and a kind but unhappily
married lover, finds love that is imperfect, but also somehow perfect.

It reminded me of another tear-jerker she
starred in, "All This and Heaven Too", from 1940, where
she plays a similar role in a movie that has some Dickensian
twists, as this one does. It's also similar to that great classic,
"The Heiress".

They don't make movies like these anymore. When they
try to, people don't want to see them, or to take their
kids to them. So much for "family values".

As for the music, she goes to the symphony with her fiancee,
accompanied by her former lover whom she had not seen for some time,
after he turned up at a party in Boston. At the concert, the orchestra
is playing the first movement of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique"; the
music continues as background after the brief concert
hall scene for some time.

I couldn't catch the credits for the music, as I think they
played at the beginning. Why does the sound seem much
better than recordings of that time?

Later in her career, Davis seemed to be cast in the
nasty roles that people think of first. Try these films. and
also "Watch on the Rhine" for a very different look at
this movie star.

I wonder if she was considered for that other movie
starring Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, and an actor who
could also play bad guys and good guys...

This film also offers a very old-fashioned view of
psychiatry; too bad that for all the advances in the
profession, only the very rich can get the kind of
treatment depicted here.
--
A. Brain

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Ason
2008-05-14 01:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid
and Claude Rains.  "Now, Voyager".
I'd never seen this one before.  Davis
plays an introverted Boston Brahmin who struggles with
her sense that life has passed her by, then, with the
help of a sensible psychiatrist and a kind but unhappily
married lover, finds love that is imperfect, but also somehow perfect.
It reminded me of another tear-jerker she
starred in, "All This and Heaven Too", from 1940, where
she plays a similar role in a movie that has some Dickensian
twists, as this one does.  It's also similar to that great classic,
"The Heiress".
They don't make movies like these anymore.  When they
try to, people don't want to see them, or to take their
kids to them. So much for "family values".
As for the music, she goes to the symphony with her fiancee,
accompanied by her former lover whom she had not seen for some time,
after he turned up  at a party in Boston.  At the concert, the orchestra
is playing the first movement of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique"; the
music continues as background after the brief concert
hall scene for some time.
I couldn't catch the credits for the music, as I think they
played at the beginning.  Why does the sound seem much
better than recordings of that time?
Later in her career, Davis seemed to be cast in the
nasty roles that people think of first.  Try these films. and
also "Watch on the Rhine" for a very different look at
this movie star.
I wonder if she was considered for that other movie
starring Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, and an actor who
could also play bad guys and good guys...
This film also offers a very old-fashioned view of
psychiatry; too bad that for all the advances in the
profession, only the very rich can get the kind of
treatment depicted here.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
I love Bette Davis. www.amazingbag.com
Matthew B. Tepper
2008-05-14 01:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Ason <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
be typed in news:cf3450b3-af75-46b1-9c58-
***@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

[repeated A. Brain's post in its entirety]
I love Bette Davis. www.a[snip]g.com
DON'T BOTHER -- just another goddam website for worthless knockoff designer
crap made by slave labor in China.

Thank you for supporting FREE TIBET!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-14 11:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid and
Claude Rains, "Now, Voyager".
Davis was acting in movies a decade earlier. She was already
well-established in 1942.
A. Brain
2008-05-16 09:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid and
Claude Rains, "Now, Voyager".
Davis was acting in movies a decade earlier. She was already
well-established in 1942.
Well, maybe, but since she was still acting forty years later,
I consider this one of her early roles.

Wouldn't you consider Leonard Bernstein's recordings in
the late '50s or even early '60s among his early recordings,
even though he'd been around for a while?
--
A. Brain

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William Sommerwerck
2008-05-16 11:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid and
Claude Rains, "Now, Voyager".
Davis was acting in movies a decade earlier. She was already
well-established in 1942.
Well, maybe, but since she was still acting forty years later,
I consider this one of her early roles.
Wouldn't you consider Leonard Bernstein's recordings in
the late '50s or even early '60s among his early recordings,
even though he'd been around for a while?
No, because in this context, I consider "early" to mean "before the
performer was well-established", rather than simply being a chronological
description.
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-14 11:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Did anyone mention Waxman's (I think he was the composer) use of R. Strauss
snippets in "Sunset Blvd"?
El Klauso
2008-05-14 12:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Ah, the power of suggestion!

Actually, Franz Waxman loosely paraphrased the Strauss "Salome" dance
in "Sunset Blvd." without resorting to quotation. (Waxman did produce
that rather delirious arrangement of Wagner's "Tristan" employed so
entertainingly in the Joan Crawford/John Garfield flick
"Humoresque.")

Another Crawford film of near that time "Possessed," featured Joan
being haunted by a Robert Schumann composition, and there are endless
examples from Hollywood's "Golden Era" of the easy exchange between
commercial film and classical music.
Nautilus
2008-05-14 12:23:02 UTC
Permalink
I remember a nice "semiserio" example. The husband of an elderly
couple annoys his wife pretty much and she doesn't let him sleep in
the bedroom. While he settles on the couch in the living-room the
music the score makes allusions to "Ella giammai m'amo".
The film is "Pappa ante portas" by Loriot.
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-15 00:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Klauso
Ah, the power of suggestion!
Actually, Franz Waxman loosely paraphrased the Strauss "Salome" dance
in "Sunset Blvd." without resorting to quotation. (Waxman did produce
that rather delirious arrangement of Wagner's "Tristan" employed so
entertainingly in the Joan Crawford/John Garfield flick
"Humoresque.")
If he did, I've never heard it.

There are two "lifts" from the opera. One is when William Holden looks up at
Gloria Swanson and we hear the opening of the opera. The other is when
Swanson is getting ready for her close-up and we hear some of Salome's "mad
music".
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-15 00:15:48 UTC
Permalink
In "A Letter to Three Wives", Kirk Douglas plays part of a Brahms concerto,
which one of his guests breaks. (Mankiewicz was, like myself, a Brahms
freak.)
Peter Greenstein
2008-05-15 02:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
In "A Letter to Three Wives", Kirk Douglas plays part of a Brahms concerto,
which one of his guests breaks. (Mankiewicz was, like myself, a Brahms
freak.)
Kirk says that it was a new recording, "from Vienna!"

pg
J***@msn.com
2008-05-15 02:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Klauso
Ah, the power of suggestion!
Actually, Franz Waxman loosely paraphrased the Strauss "Salome" dance
in "Sunset Blvd." without resorting to quotation. (Waxman did produce
that rather delirious arrangement of Wagner's "Tristan" employed so
entertainingly in the Joan Crawford/John Garfield flick
"Humoresque.")
Another Crawford film of near that time "Possessed," featured Joan
being haunted by a Robert Schumann composition, and there are endless
examples from Hollywood's "Golden Era" of the easy exchange between
commercial film and classical music.
Recently one of the NY cable stations has been playing Taras Bulba
with Brynner and Curtis; actually not as bad as you think it might be
- with score, of course, by Franz Waxman. Hauser
marika
2008-05-15 02:25:21 UTC
Permalink
<***@msn.com> wrote in message news:f2ac5cca-1b4d-4ab7-9a04-***@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
\Recently one of the NY cable stations has been playing Taras Bulba
with Brynner and Curtis; actually not as bad as you think it might be
- with score, of course, by Franz Waxman. Hauser

--------------

I LOVE that movie


----- Original Message -----
From: "marika" <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:59 PM
Subject: star enterprise
doesn't the M in MTV stand for Music. In my tireless scanning, I noticed
they were ready to franchise into RADIO at one point! so the V was going
away too. They have
to say I want my T! No give it back.
me too
I once met this filmmaker I have
never seen his stupid movie: basis: First night I met him, I wasn't tall
or
blond (. First time I met him I walked up to him and the cute little gay
boy???) andeywayz - he huffed off when I so rudely
interrupted them to intro myself. Oh boy oh boy. How important was he
then?
NOT. How important was I? A little more
I've never seen his movie and I refuse. Because I don't like his attitude
I know
the
movie cannot be good. HE gave me extra added incentive by not including
my
friends in the footagagage
No but you could have "THE PRICE IS RIGHT" over and over
Yeah and Entertainment Weekly voted it the "IT" thing of the year. he is
so
savvy!
sounds better than anything anyone can come up with in terms of
saleability
He was very charismatic when young. He is now fat and old and does not
realize it.
All he needs is a pipe and patches on a sweater
any lawyer would tell him different. I know he can hire one. I feel he
had
already consulted one. If they file. his trademark is "dilute".
Eg. You call a tissue a kleenex. So kleenex loses the right to use the
word as
a trademark. Unless they write a letter threatening to sue every person
who
ever used it as a synonym.
I purposely did not all this stuff in front of him to force him to look
it
up. and hire a lawyer
I also strove for chaos, lack of cohesion, basic insanity.
it would be a waste of a grand just for the tiniest retainer to be told he
can't file. he can legally file but he'd lose cash. One ace in the hole.
ps -- that is different as I am sure you understand.
Not everyone calls anything that sorta looks like an operating system
linux.
Same as they do not call every os windows. It's gotta turn into a synonym
for
the thing itself.
Another really good eg. In UK, everyone calls vacuum cleaners Hoovers.
That
makes it dilute. There. Not here tho.
Get the diff...
mk5000
BTW what's the wording on a packet of peanuts? Does it claim there are
definitely nuts inside? (Peanuts are not nuts - they're a member of
the legume family so they're related to peas and beans).
If the peanuts were packaged in a factory where nuts were also present, of
if they are cooked in an oil that contains nuts, or if the flavouring
contains nuts, then they have to have the warning label that they may
contain nuts - even though they're not nuts, they 'may' contain them."--
Lucy x
El Klauso
2008-05-15 04:03:21 UTC
Permalink
JH: Recently one of the NY cable stations has been playing Taras Bulba
with Brynner and Curtis; actually not as bad as you think it might be
- with score, of course, by Franz Waxman.

EK: Enthusiastically seconded.

The "Ride of the Cossacks" (I believe it was originally called "The
Ride to Dubno" on the Original Soundtrack Recording - now OOP...) is a
nifty work that might be profitably put forth at concerts, both Pops
and otherwise.

Youtube has two versions - a brief cutting from the 1962 film (http://
and a complete and quite
nifty two-piano arrangement.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=3x9WwQvwEF8#)
Sacqueboutier
2008-05-15 10:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by J***@msn.com
Post by El Klauso
Ah, the power of suggestion!
Actually, Franz Waxman loosely paraphrased the Strauss "Salome" dance
in "Sunset Blvd." without resorting to quotation. (Waxman did produce
that rather delirious arrangement of Wagner's "Tristan" employed so
entertainingly in the Joan Crawford/John Garfield flick
"Humoresque.")
Another Crawford film of near that time "Possessed," featured Joan
being haunted by a Robert Schumann composition, and there are endless
examples from Hollywood's "Golden Era" of the easy exchange between
commercial film and classical music.
Recently one of the NY cable stations has been playing Taras Bulba
with Brynner and Curtis; actually not as bad as you think it might be
- with score, of course, by Franz Waxman. Hauser
Franz Waxman's grandson and his family live in my
neighborhood. My son plays with his son.
:-)
--
Kindest regards,

Don Patterson
Richard Loeb
2008-05-14 01:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid
and Claude Rains. "Now, Voyager".
I'd never seen this one before. Davis
plays an introverted Boston Brahmin who struggles with
her sense that life has passed her by, then, with the
help of a sensible psychiatrist and a kind but unhappily
married lover, finds love that is imperfect, but also somehow perfect.
It reminded me of another tear-jerker she
starred in, "All This and Heaven Too", from 1940, where
she plays a similar role in a movie that has some Dickensian
twists, as this one does. It's also similar to that great classic,
"The Heiress".
They don't make movies like these anymore. When they
try to, people don't want to see them, or to take their
kids to them. So much for "family values".
As for the music, she goes to the symphony with her fiancee,
accompanied by her former lover whom she had not seen for some time,
after he turned up at a party in Boston. At the concert, the orchestra
is playing the first movement of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique"; the
music continues as background after the brief concert
hall scene for some time.
I couldn't catch the credits for the music, as I think they
played at the beginning. Why does the sound seem much
better than recordings of that time?
Later in her career, Davis seemed to be cast in the
nasty roles that people think of first. Try these films. and
also "Watch on the Rhine" for a very different look at
this movie star.
I wonder if she was considered for that other movie
starring Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, and an actor who
could also play bad guys and good guys...
This film also offers a very old-fashioned view of
psychiatry; too bad that for all the advances in the
profession, only the very rich can get the kind of
treatment depicted here.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
They also play a bit of the Tristan love music in that film Richard
Peter Greenstein
2008-05-15 00:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
TCM had a real gem on the other day--Bette Davis in one
of her early roles, from 1942, with Paul Henreid
and Claude Rains. "Now, Voyager".
As for the music, she goes to the symphony with her fiancee,
accompanied by her former lover whom she had not seen for some time,
after he turned up at a party in Boston. At the concert, the orchestra
is playing the first movement of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique"; the
music continues as background after the brief concert
hall scene for some time.
Thank you for bringing this up. I've always loved this film. What I got from
that scene was the great passion in the music bringing the Bette Davis
character up against what was so lacking in her relationship with the man
she was to marry. It was a pretty powerful sequence.

Yes, it is a tear-jerker. A "chick-flick." I don't care. If my wife and I
actually smoked, I would certainly light a cigarette for her the way Paul
Henreid does!

Let's see, the film was released in 1942, it's supposed to be the Boston
Symphony, Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique." I think there was somebody who made a
fair impression there with that music! My father regularly attended Boston
Sympony concerts in the 1930's and this was the only work of Tchaikovsky
that he liked.

peter
rkhalona
2008-05-15 00:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
I couldn't catch the credits for the music, as I think they
played at the beginning.  Why does the sound seem much
better than recordings of that time?
My guess is that the sound has been restored. I had the same
experience a few weeks ago when I stumbled upon a musical (I normally
hate musicals, but this one caught my attention), "Dancing Lady" with
Joan Crawford and Clark Gable (1933). No classical music in this one,
but the sound is really good (even the Three Stooges make a cameo
appearance).

RK
A. Brain
2008-05-16 09:06:37 UTC
Permalink
The thread from a few months ago was about recordings
of classical music featured in movies. I can't recall if "The
Boys from Brazil" was mentioned.

What a bizarre movie; I had not seen it before and caught
it on TCM tonight. It's almost "campy".

In one scene, Gregory Peck and James Mason, both
badly miscast, listen to a recording of music from
Wagner's "Ring". I'm surprised there were not more
scenes like this. (If you had to have Peck and Mason,
I would have reversed their roles.)

Somehow TCM does not offer closed captions with
many films from the more recent past. This one, with
Peck, Mason, and Olivier all offering bad German accents,
could have used those.

I await the best of films made about Nazi Germany on
DVD. Made in the early '80s and shown on A&E,
"Blood and Honor". I'm not even sure it made it to
VHS.
--
A. Brain

Remove NOSPAM for email.
g***@gmail.com
2008-05-16 12:36:53 UTC
Permalink
In one scene, Gregory Peck and James Mason...
(If you had to have Peck and Mason, I would have reversed their roles.)
I was watching the 1956 Moby Dick the other day and was thinking the
roles of Peck and Orson Wells should have been reversed. After reading
the book, I think Wells (in his most sinister mood) would have made a
more plausible Ahab as opposed to Peck’s wooden stance that looked
like Abraham Lincoln with a stub. I think that creature would have
been better, however, as the fire and brimstone preacher.


Dil
Lawrence Chalmers
2008-05-17 01:37:16 UTC
Permalink
One of my favorite BD movies is 'Another Man's Poison'. Oh! and then
there is 'The Little Foxes' with a great supporting cast, Dan Duryea
and Charles Dingle.
And on and on... OT
I'm afraid, but Bette Davis, along with
classical music have been life-enhancing experiences
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-17 02:27:38 UTC
Permalink
This is slightly off-topic, but only slightly.

I rarely watch MSNBC, but just noticed that their tag theme is very
familiar. Everyone in this group will recognize it, but the young'uns won't
catch the reference.
Steve de Mena
2008-05-17 05:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
This is slightly off-topic, but only slightly.
I rarely watch MSNBC, but just noticed that their tag theme is very
familiar. Everyone in this group will recognize it, but the young'uns won't
catch the reference.
I heard their "Decision 2008" theme. It incorporated their old "N-B-C"
three note theme, is that what you are referring to?

Steve
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-17 10:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve de Mena
Post by William Sommerwerck
I rarely watch MSNBC, but just noticed that their tag theme
is very familiar. Everyone in this group will recognize it, but
the young'uns won't catch the reference.
I heard their "Decision 2008" theme. It incorporated their old
"N-B-C" three-note theme, is that what you are referring to?
Nope.
A. Brain
2008-05-17 10:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Well, Keith Olbermann's theme is an arrangement of
the opening bars of the Scherzo of Beethoven's 9th, which
was also the theme music of NBC's news shows back in
the '60s.
--
A. Brain

Remove NOSPAM for email.
Post by Steve de Mena
Post by William Sommerwerck
I rarely watch MSNBC, but just noticed that their tag theme
is very familiar. Everyone in this group will recognize it, but
the young'uns won't catch the reference.
I heard their "Decision 2008" theme. It incorporated their old
"N-B-C" three-note theme, is that what you are referring to?
Nope.
William Sommerwerck
2008-05-17 10:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Brain
Well, Keith Olbermann's theme is an arrangement of
the opening bars of the Scherzo of Beethoven's 9th, which
was also the theme music of NBC's news shows back in
the '60s.
Specifically, the BS9.2 was the end theme for the Huntley-Brinkley Report.

MSNBC uses it elsewhere, not only on Olbermann.

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