The Greatest Liszt recording ever made?

[td]

From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.

Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.

On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).

Richter was in his absolute prime in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.

So, what we get here is the pianist uninhibited by memory problems
unleashed upon some of the greatest music Liszt ever wrote. How can
you possibly lose.

I probably prefer the Feux follets from 1958 in Sofia, but I am
quibbling. The whole CD is simply an astounding display of
musicianship, technique, temperament, poetry, passion, well,
everything that goes to make up a performance of a lifetime.

Wonder what HCS thought about the Liszt Sonata. I should check the NYT
archive to see what he said. At that time he was inexplicably down on
Sviatoslav Richter.

I did a quick search on amazon. Only amazon in the UK lists this as
available, although they say it takes one to two months for delivery.
Read: they don't have it and probably can't get it.

What a pity!

This CD really needs to circulate.

Scour ebay for a copy and pay what they are asking. This is something
truly special.

TD

[M. A.]

[On the Palexa CD "Sviatoslav Richter plays Liszt"]
I did a quick search on amazon. Only amazon in the UK lists this as
available, although they say it takes one to two months for delivery.
Read: they don't have it and probably can't get it.

That's right, unfortunately. I ordered there and got nothing.

M. A.

[td]

Post by M. A.

[On the Palexa CD "Sviatoslav Richter plays Liszt"]
I did a quick search on amazon. Only amazon in the UK lists this as
available, although they say it takes one to two months for delivery.
Read: they don't have it and probably can't get it.

That's right, unfortunately. I ordered there and got nothing.

I suspected as much.

If ever you see a marketplace seller posting it, grab it right away.
Don't even look at the price.

TD

[jPjones]

Joyce Hatto as represented by twenty or thirty pianists. With the
magic of Syd Sax, preferably.

Best,

jPj

[td]

Post by jPjones
Joyce Hatto as represented by twenty or thirty pianists. With the
magic of Syd Sax, preferably.

Your seams are showing, Jane dear.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by td
From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.
Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.
On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).

Pleased you're enjoying your discovery, TD ;-)

FWIW, as I mentioned last week, the distributor still lists this disc
but calls it "back ordered." The page:

http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537

Lots of audio samples there.

SE.

[tomdeacon]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by td
From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.
Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.
On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).

Pleased you're enjoying your discovery, TD ;-)
FWIW, as I mentioned last week, the distributor still lists this disc
http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537
Lots of audio samples there.

Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO, Steve, and much of it is
unfindable even in Montreal via Archambault.

But this Liszt recital is not among the remaindered items. i bought it
a long time ago, but only just now got around to listening to it. My
error, of course. Too much to hear. Not enough time.

I feel sure that DK must have been in perpetual orgasm listening to
this CD.

TD

[jPjones]

Post by tomdeacon

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by td
From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.
Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.
On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).

Pleased you're enjoying your discovery, TD ;-)
FWIW, as I mentioned last week, the distributor still lists this disc
http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537
Lots of audio samples there.

Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO, Steve, and much of it is
unfindable even in Montreal via Archambault.
But this Liszt recital is not among the remaindered items. i bought it
a long time ago, but only just now got around to listening to it. My
error, of course. Too much to hear. Not enough time.
I feel sure that DK must have been in perpetual orgasm listening to
this CD.

No, what excites him the most is when you, his bitch, are near. He
knows he can make you mistake a Hatto for a Matsuzawa. If he can do
that, he can do anything.

Best,

jPj

[Rugby]

Post by tomdeacon
I feel sure that DK must have been in perpetual orgasm listening to
this CD.

Well, at least the cd lasts less than 4 hours.

Rugby

[tomdeacon]

Post by Rugby

Post by tomdeacon
I feel sure that DK must have been in perpetual orgasm listening to
this CD.

Well, at least the cd lasts less than 4 hours.

75 minutes, in fact.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by tomdeacon
Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO, Steve,

I make it about 30%, maybe less. And little or nothing of what rendered
the label interesting (no Horowitz, no Natan Brand, none of the Annie
Fischers or Gekics, no Bolet).

Post by tomdeacon
and much of it is
unfindable even in Montreal via Archambault.
But this Liszt recital is not among the remaindered items. i bought it
a long time ago, but only just now got around to listening to it.

The one I've got I found used a year or so ago, bought it for the TEs
but it was the sonata that killed me.

SE.

[tomdeacon]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by tomdeacon
Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO, Steve,

I make it about 30%, maybe less. And little or nothing of what rendered
the label interesting (no Horowitz, no Natan Brand, none of the Annie
Fischers or Gekics, no Bolet).

Funny.

I just received the live Annie Fischer recital. I already owned the
Gekic and Bolet Cds, fortunately.

Post by Steve Emerson

Post by tomdeacon
and much of it is
unfindable even in Montreal via Archambault.
But this Liszt recital is not among the remaindered items. i bought it
a long time ago, but only just now got around to listening to it.

The one I've got I found used a year or so ago, bought it for the TEs
but it was the sonata that killed me.

And you weren't "killed" by the TEs. Ever hear the F minor Etude
dispatched with such intensity? Or Hamonies du Soir with greater
poetry?

TD

[weary flake]

Post by tomdeacon

Post by Steve Emerson
http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537
Lots of audio samples there.

I can't hear the sound samples. How does the transcendental
etude #2 sound? Richter's transcendental etude #2 in Prague
sounds stupidly fleet.

Post by tomdeacon
Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO

No it isn't.

[td]

Post by tomdeacon

Post by Steve Emerson
http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537
Lots of audio samples there.

I can't hear the sound samples.  How does the transcendental
etude #2 sound?  Richter's transcendental etude #2 in Prague
sounds stupidly fleet.

Post by tomdeacon
Most of the Palexa catalogue is at BRO

No it isn't.

It was when I last ordered a whole slew of releases. Perhaps they are
now sold out of many titles.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

Post by weary flake

Post by Steve Emerson
http://www.allegro-music.com/online_catalog.asp?sku_tag=PLX3537
Lots of audio samples there.

I can't hear the sound samples.

I tried it and they worked spottily for me. At some point or other most
did play, however.

Post by weary flake
How does the transcendental
etude #2 sound? Richter's transcendental etude #2 in Prague
sounds stupidly fleet.

That's probably what you'll think of this one as well.

SE.

[John Thomas]

This looks like it: http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Post by td
From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.
Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.
On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).
Richter was in his absolute prime in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.
So, what we get here is the pianist uninhibited by memory problems
unleashed upon some of the greatest music Liszt ever wrote. How can
you possibly lose.
I probably prefer the Feux follets from 1958 in Sofia, but I am
quibbling. The whole CD is simply an astounding display of
musicianship, technique, temperament, poetry, passion, well,
everything that goes to make up a performance of a lifetime.
Wonder what HCS thought about the Liszt Sonata. I should check the NYT
archive to see what he said. At that time he was inexplicably down on
Sviatoslav Richter.
I did a quick search on amazon. Only amazon in the UK lists this as
available, although they say it takes one to two months for delivery.
Read: they don't have it and probably can't get it.
What a pity!
This CD really needs to circulate.
Scour ebay for a copy and pay what they are asking. This is something
truly special.
TD

-John Thomas

[tomdeacon]

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!

However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.

TD

[John Thomas]

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

Well, I did. €24 for shipping! This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

-John Thomas

[td]

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

  Well, I did.  €24 for shipping!  This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

And I fervently hope that you actually receive it. If this site works,
I would imagine that they might just shift a few more of those CDs in
the near future.

Keep us posted on your success. Or lack of it.

TD

[John Thomas]

Post by td

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

  Well, I did.  €24 for shipping!  This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

And I fervently hope that you actually receive it. If this site works,
I would imagine that they might just shift a few more of those CDs in
the near future.
Keep us posted on your success. Or lack of it.
TD

Integrale e-mailed me today to report that the CD had been shipped.
Considering the shipping cost
I assume it will arrive tomorrow.

-John Thomas

[td]

Post by John Thomas

Post by td

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

  Well, I did.  €24 for shipping!  This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

And I fervently hope that you actually receive it. If this site works,
I would imagine that they might just shift a few more of those CDs in
the near future.
Keep us posted on your success. Or lack of it.
TD

Integrale e-mailed me today to report that the CD had been shipped.
Considering the shipping cost
I assume it will arrive tomorrow.

This is very good news, I think. I certainly hope that you are not
disappointed once it arrives.

TD

[j***@hotmail.com]

Post by John Thomas

Post by td

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

  Well, I did.  €24 for shipping!  This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

And I fervently hope that you actually receive it. If this site works,
I would imagine that they might just shift a few more of those CDs in
the near future.
Keep us posted on your success. Or lack of it.
TD

Integrale e-mailed me today to report that the CD had been shipped.
Considering the shipping cost
I assume it will arrive tomorrow.
-John Thomas- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The Palexa CD first showed up at Amazon back around 2005, but
apparently it was not listed there for long. Due to a favorable
mention of Richter's live account by critic Harris Goldsmith in High
Fidelity, I purchased the original LP version back around 1974 at
Music Masters in Manhattan. That was Private Edition P-101 and, so far
as I know, it was the only LP ever issued on that label. The LP
couplings were Mendelssohn's Variations Serieuses (live 22 April 1965,
Brooklyn) and Beethoven's Sonata op. 101 (live 3 May 1965, Carnegie
Hall). This remains my favorite performance of the Lizst Sonata.

Jeff Lipscomb

[td]

Post by j***@hotmail.com

Post by John Thomas

Post by td

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

  Well, I did.  €24 for shipping!  This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.

And I fervently hope that you actually receive it. If this site works,
I would imagine that they might just shift a few more of those CDs in
the near future.
Keep us posted on your success. Or lack of it.
TD

Integrale e-mailed me today to report that the CD had been shipped.
Considering the shipping cost
I assume it will arrive tomorrow.
-John Thomas- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The Palexa CD first showed up at Amazon back around 2005, but
apparently it was not listed there for long. Due to a favorable
mention of Richter's live account by critic Harris Goldsmith in High
Fidelity, I purchased the original LP version back around 1974 at
Music Masters in Manhattan. That was Private Edition P-101 and, so far
as I know, it was the only LP ever issued on that label. The LP
couplings were Mendelssohn's Variations Serieuses (live 22 April 1965,
Brooklyn) and Beethoven's Sonata op. 101 (live 3 May 1965, Carnegie
Hall). This remains my favorite performance of the Lizst Sonata.

Music Masters was a widely known pirate recording outfit. No doubt
this was the source of the Liszt sonata recording on Palexa.

If it is still available, you should order it from that distributor in
France.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by td

Post by j***@hotmail.com
The Palexa CD first showed up at Amazon back around 2005, but
apparently it was not listed there for long. Due to a favorable
mention of Richter's live account by critic Harris Goldsmith in High
Fidelity, I purchased the original LP version back around 1974 at
Music Masters in Manhattan. That was Private Edition P-101 and, so far
as I know, it was the only LP ever issued on that label. The LP
couplings were Mendelssohn's Variations Serieuses (live 22 April 1965,
Brooklyn) and Beethoven's Sonata op. 101 (live 3 May 1965, Carnegie
Hall). This remains my favorite performance of the Lizst Sonata.

Music Masters was a widely known pirate recording outfit.

This doesn't line up very well with what Jeff is saying. Maybe you mean
"Private Edition." Or as Paul Geffen's discography calls it, simply
"Private."

Post by td
No doubt
this was the source of the Liszt sonata recording on Palexa.

Why? Are you disputing Geffen and others who state that a CD from...
Philips included this same May 1965 Carnegie Hall performance,
mislabeled as "Budapest"?

Is there any evidence that this "Budapest" performance is different from
the Carnegie Hall 1965?

SE.

[jPjones]

The Music Masters label put out a great CD of a Duke Ellington concert
at Columbia University (1964), with Willie The Lion Smith and Billy
Strayhorn as special guests. Great stuff. I don't think they were
pirates. This CD says the material comes from Mercer, who authorized
it. While it is possible that some Music Masters releases were less
well defined in the sense of the chain of custody and so on, they are
not considered a pirate label. The series of Benny Goodman concerts
from the fifties was also authorized, and it is very good stuff,
Goodman in the raw, as it were.

jPj

[td]

Post by jPjones
While it is possible that some Music Masters releases were less
well defined in the sense of the chain of custody and so on, they are
not considered a pirate label. The series of Benny Goodman concerts
from the fifties was also authorized, and it is very good stuff,
Goodman in the raw, as it were.

There is a confusion I sense here.

Music Masters of New York, the outfit on 42nd street or one of those
cross streets in New York which also sold HiFi equipment is not, so
far as I know, the same as MusicMasters, the record label, which also
recorded Feltsman and Rosen and so on.

I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps they are linked. But the music
masters I know had tapes of practically any performance of note that
had ever taken place in New York and sold copies for a hefty price. On
reel to reel or perhaps cassette. I never purchased any, but I have a
friend who did. The only tape I ever really wanted was that Argerich
recital from the early 1980s where she played Brahms 2, Prokofiev R&J
Suite (which she told me she didn't know!!!), Bach Partita and a
Chopin group. The best mixed composer recital I have ever heard by any
pianist.

TD

[td]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by td

Post by j***@hotmail.com
The Palexa CD first showed up at Amazon back around 2005, but
apparently it was not listed there for long. Due to a favorable
mention of Richter's live account by critic Harris Goldsmith in High
Fidelity, I purchased the original LP version back around 1974 at
Music Masters in Manhattan. That was Private Edition P-101 and, so far
as I know, it was the only LP ever issued on that label. The LP
couplings were Mendelssohn's Variations Serieuses (live 22 April 1965,
Brooklyn) and Beethoven's Sonata op. 101 (live 3 May 1965, Carnegie
Hall). This remains my favorite performance of the Lizst Sonata.

Music Masters was a widely known pirate recording outfit.

This doesn't line up very well with what Jeff is saying. Maybe you mean
"Private Edition." Or as Paul Geffen's discography calls it, simply
"Private."

Post by td
No doubt
this was the source of the Liszt sonata recording on Palexa.

Why? Are you disputing Geffen and others who state that a CD from...
Philips included this same May 1965 Carnegie Hall performance,
mislabeled as "Budapest"?
Is there any evidence that this "Budapest" performance is different from
the Carnegie Hall 1965?

The tape received from Richter himself was clearly labelled Budapest.

Now, it is possible that it was mislabelled. It is not possible,
however, that Richter would have purposely misinformed Philips, since
he selected the materials himself. I am sure that he played the piece
any number of times in any number of places, Steve, and have trouble
believing that he would be able to correctly identify one performance
from among many some thirty years later.

I have not compared them, I have to say. The ear plays tricks in any
event when you have to take one CD out of the player and replay the
same section again. I would imagine that equipment does exist that can
do that, but I certainly don't own it. Do you?

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by td

Post by Steve Emerson
Why? Are you disputing Geffen and others who state that a CD from...
Philips included this same May 1965 Carnegie Hall performance,
mislabeled as "Budapest"?
Is there any evidence that this "Budapest" performance is different from
the Carnegie Hall 1965?

The tape received from Richter himself was clearly labelled Budapest.
Now, it is possible that it was mislabelled. It is not possible,
however, that Richter would have purposely misinformed Philips, since
he selected the materials himself. I am sure that he played the piece
any number of times in any number of places, Steve, and have trouble
believing that he would be able to correctly identify one performance
from among many some thirty years later.

All points well taken.

I wonder if the Monsaingeon book (which I no longer have) lists any
Budapest concerts where he played the sonata.

Tanin's discography includes numerous other *recordings*, unissued; none
in Budapest. And there's the "Moscow" recording on Brilliant....

It hardly matters -- the more interesting question is whether the
Philips and the Palexa are the same. (Besides Jeff's record, there's
also supposed to be a Melodiya LP of this.)

Post by td
I have not compared them, I have to say. The ear plays tricks in any
event when you have to take one CD out of the player and replay the
same section again.

Very true.

Post by td
I would imagine that equipment does exist that can
do that, but I certainly don't own it. Do you?

Short answer -- yes.

With the audio open on a computer, it's quite simple to jump back and
forth to equivalent moments anywhere in the tracks.

Once the eye becomes somewhat trained, gazing at a waveform of the
entire recording and comparing it to another will also usually tell you
what you need to know. And certainly when used together with the ear....

Even before that, it's simple to open up the audio of two tracks and
trim them until they start and end at exactly the same point, excising
the silence and applause -- and then just compare the timings. There
doesn't seem to be any reason for alterations that might affect those.

Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.

SE.

[rk]

Post by Steve Emerson
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.
SE.

Slightly OT, I have two cds of same performance of Richter's Brahms 2
with different timings. It appears, that first release was slightly
out of pitch (bad tape speed) and this was subsequently corrected.
Timings can be misleading sometimes.

Palexa Liszt is surely Richter at his best. Amazing Transcendental
Etudes can be found on Praga, from 1956 also (OOP, as usual).

rk

[td]

Post by rk

Post by Steve Emerson
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.
SE.

Slightly OT, I have two cds of same performance of Richter's Brahms 2
with different timings. It appears, that first release was slightly
out of pitch (bad tape speed) and this was subsequently corrected.
Timings can be misleading sometimes.
Palexa Liszt is surely Richter at his best. Amazing Transcendental
Etudes can be found on Praga, from 1956 also (OOP, as usual).

You say "as usual". This is frustrating, of course, specially given
the stature of Sviatoslav Richter as a pianist. It shouldn't be so, of
course.

Thinking of that the other day as I listened, jaw on the ground, to
Richter play Liszt, these questions occurred to me immediately:

1) What is it that enables a human being to do what Richter does here?
Genius seems too facile a word, doesn't capture the whole.

2) Is Richter, perhaps, the greatest keyboard artist of the 20th
Century? Bar none? And probably the greatest since Liszt himself?

Hearing SR play the piano is one thing. Seeing and hearing him in
person is quite another thing. Fortunately I had the privilege of
hearing him in recital about a dozen times, mostly in the 1960s and
1970s, but also in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 60s and 70s there was
an intensity in his playing that was palpable. It was irrelevant what
he played, Beethoven, Brahms, Prokofiev, Scriabin, whatever. This you
hear in the Palexa CD. To hear him in Tours, France, each year, was a
pilgrimage I was only too willing to make. In the 80s and 90s the
intensity was less strong, but the ferocious determination of this
artist to come to grips with the score at hand was unbelievable. That
jutting jaw, the torso leaning over the keyboard, those huge mits
grappling with the notes, remain vivid images in my mind.

Later, I would come much closer to him and be frustrated by his whims,
and his vagueness (that stack of poorly identified DAT tapes he dumped
into our lap as his
"authorized recordings" was hardly the best present I ever received at
Philips), and also by the perversity of some of his musical decisions:
What was he doing playing the Gershwin Concerto, for example? Why did
he turn SS 2's second movement into a gallumping canter? But the
integrity of this artist remained intact throughout.

Interestingly, I think he didn't have a "sound", in the way that
Cherkassky did, for example, or Arrau. With Richter the "sound" was
the sound of the composer's music rather than something he
superimposed over it.

Technically his playing was always awesome, even when there were wrong
notes, and there were almost always wrong notes, as with Horowitz and
Rubinstein, and all the greats, in fact. Of no account. He suffered
from memory difficulties. So, perhaps after the Bach WTC fiasco in
Paris, he started to use the score. So did Myra Hess, who always said
"Well, you know, I can read music!". Lovely rejoinder. I do feel that
this requirement altered some of the intensity of Richter's playing.
That's my theory.

And yet.

I recall a Scriabin "Vers la flamme" which almost set the building in
Nijmegen (I think) on fire. Perhaps he thought he hadn't quite pulled
that trick off. So, he played it again.

Yes. I do believe that Richter would be my candidate for the title of
the Greatest Pianist of the 20th Century. At least that is my feeling
now. I may change my mind one day. But that Liszt CD sealed the deal,
I think.

Sorry, RK. This is not really a reply. Please forgive the length.

TD

[rk]

Post by td

Post by rk

Post by Steve Emerson
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.
SE.

Slightly OT, I have two cds of same performance of Richter's Brahms 2
with different timings. It appears, that first release was slightly
out of pitch (bad tape speed) and this was subsequently corrected.
Timings can be misleading sometimes.
Palexa Liszt is surely Richter at his best. Amazing Transcendental
Etudes can be found on Praga, from 1956 also (OOP, as usual).

You say "as usual". This is frustrating, of course, specially given
the stature of Sviatoslav Richter as a pianist. It shouldn't be so, of
course.
Thinking of that the other day as I listened, jaw on the ground, to
1) What is it that enables a human being to do what Richter does here?
Genius seems too facile a word, doesn't capture the whole.
2) Is Richter, perhaps, the greatest keyboard artist of the 20th
Century? Bar none? And probably the greatest since Liszt himself?
Hearing SR play the piano is one thing. Seeing and hearing him in
person is quite another thing. Fortunately I had the privilege of
hearing him in recital about a dozen times, mostly in the 1960s and
1970s, but also in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 60s and 70s there was
an intensity in his playing that was palpable. It was irrelevant what
he played, Beethoven, Brahms, Prokofiev, Scriabin, whatever. This you
hear in the Palexa CD. To hear him in Tours, France, each year, was a
pilgrimage I was only too willing to make. In the 80s and 90s the
intensity was less strong, but the ferocious determination of this
artist to come to grips with the score at hand was unbelievable. That
jutting jaw, the torso leaning over the keyboard, those huge mits
grappling with the notes, remain vivid images in my mind.
Later, I would come much closer to him and be frustrated by his whims,
and his vagueness (that stack of poorly identified DAT tapes he dumped
into our lap as his
"authorized recordings" was hardly the best present I ever received at
What was he doing playing the Gershwin Concerto, for example? Why did
he turn SS 2's second movement into a gallumping canter? But the
integrity of this artist remained intact throughout.
Interestingly, I think he didn't have a "sound", in the way that
Cherkassky did, for example, or Arrau. With Richter the "sound" was
the sound of the composer's music rather than something he
superimposed over it.
Technically his playing was always awesome, even when there were wrong
notes, and there were almost always wrong notes, as with Horowitz and
Rubinstein, and all the greats, in fact. Of no account. He suffered
from memory difficulties. So, perhaps after the Bach WTC fiasco in
Paris, he started to use the score. So did Myra Hess, who always said
"Well, you know, I can read music!". Lovely rejoinder. I do feel that
this requirement altered some of the intensity of Richter's playing.
That's my theory.
And yet.
I recall a Scriabin "Vers la flamme" which almost set the building in
Nijmegen (I think) on fire. Perhaps he thought he hadn't quite pulled
that trick off. So, he played it again.
Yes. I do believe that Richter would be my candidate for the title of
the Greatest Pianist of the 20th Century. At least that is my feeling
now. I may change my mind one day. But that Liszt CD sealed the deal,
I think.
Sorry, RK. This is not really a reply. Please forgive the length.
TD

TD, I agree about Richter completely. In my books there is only two
geniuses among pianists, Richter and Gould. But I'm not a great fan of
rating artists or performances, so I accept as a fact that dozens of
other pianists have shown flashes of genius here and there. Just not
in the consistent level of SR and GG.

Out of print recordings is a great shame, but eventually most of the
Richter stuff get a periodical reprint. Starting a Richter collection
right now is probably easier and cheaper than ever. I'll bet we'll see
the Czech radio tapes again in few years. I have noticed that Richter
boxes go right to the top of "monthly best-sellers" list of few
internet retailers, so there might even be some business to be made (I
have seen that business instinct is not the strong point of classical
music companies).

Now a tape of Richter playing Transcendentals in mid 40's would be a
thing to have, if only such tape would exist.

rk

[td]

Post by rk

Post by td

Post by rk

Post by Steve Emerson
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.
SE.

Slightly OT, I have two cds of same performance of Richter's Brahms 2
with different timings. It appears, that first release was slightly
out of pitch (bad tape speed) and this was subsequently corrected.
Timings can be misleading sometimes.
Palexa Liszt is surely Richter at his best. Amazing Transcendental
Etudes can be found on Praga, from 1956 also (OOP, as usual).

You say "as usual". This is frustrating, of course, specially given
the stature of Sviatoslav Richter as a pianist. It shouldn't be so, of
course.
Thinking of that the other day as I listened, jaw on the ground, to
1) What is it that enables a human being to do what Richter does here?
Genius seems too facile a word, doesn't capture the whole.
2) Is Richter, perhaps, the greatest keyboard artist of the 20th
Century? Bar none? And probably the greatest since Liszt himself?
Hearing SR play the piano is one thing. Seeing and hearing him in
person is quite another thing. Fortunately I had the privilege of
hearing him in recital about a dozen times, mostly in the 1960s and
1970s, but also in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 60s and 70s there was
an intensity in his playing that was palpable. It was irrelevant what
he played, Beethoven, Brahms, Prokofiev, Scriabin, whatever. This you
hear in the Palexa CD. To hear him in Tours, France, each year, was a
pilgrimage I was only too willing to make. In the 80s and 90s the
intensity was less strong, but the ferocious determination of this
artist to come to grips with the score at hand was unbelievable. That
jutting jaw, the torso leaning over the keyboard, those huge mits
grappling with the notes, remain vivid images in my mind.
Later, I would come much closer to him and be frustrated by his whims,
and his vagueness (that stack of poorly identified DAT tapes he dumped
into our lap as his
"authorized recordings" was hardly the best present I ever received at
What was he doing playing the Gershwin Concerto, for example? Why did
he turn SS 2's second movement into a gallumping canter? But the
integrity of this artist remained intact throughout.
Interestingly, I think he didn't have a "sound", in the way that
Cherkassky did, for example, or Arrau. With Richter the "sound" was
the sound of the composer's music rather than something he
superimposed over it.
Technically his playing was always awesome, even when there were wrong
notes, and there were almost always wrong notes, as with Horowitz and
Rubinstein, and all the greats, in fact. Of no account. He suffered
from memory difficulties. So, perhaps after the Bach WTC fiasco in
Paris, he started to use the score. So did Myra Hess, who always said
"Well, you know, I can read music!". Lovely rejoinder. I do feel that
this requirement altered some of the intensity of Richter's playing.
That's my theory.
And yet.
I recall a Scriabin "Vers la flamme" which almost set the building in
Nijmegen (I think) on fire. Perhaps he thought he hadn't quite pulled
that trick off. So, he played it again.
Yes. I do believe that Richter would be my candidate for the title of
the Greatest Pianist of the 20th Century. At least that is my feeling
now. I may change my mind one day. But that Liszt CD sealed the deal,
I think.
Sorry, RK. This is not really a reply. Please forgive the length.
TD

TD, I agree about Richter completely. In my books there is only two
geniuses among pianists, Richter and Gould. But I'm not a great fan of
rating artists or performances, so I accept as a fact that dozens of
other pianists have shown flashes of genius here and there. Just not
in the consistent level of SR and GG.
Out of print recordings is a great shame, but eventually most of the
Richter stuff get a periodical reprint. Starting a Richter collection
right now is probably easier and cheaper than ever. I'll bet we'll see
the Czech radio tapes again in few years. I have noticed that Richter
boxes go right to the top of "monthly best-sellers" list of few
internet retailers, so there might even be some business to be made (I
have seen that business instinct is not the strong point of classical
music companies).
Now a tape of Richter playing Transcendentals in mid 40's would be a
thing to have, if only such tape would exist.

He learned the Liszt sonata in the 1930s while studying with Neuhaus.
But I don't know when he started to play the TEs.

I simply thank my lucky stars that we have what we have.

As for GG, well, yes, a genius. But also something of a nut, I would
say. In person, however, he was a very sweet, gentle soul. Strange
man.

TD

[LaVirtuosa]

Post by td

Post by rk

Post by td

Post by rk

Post by Steve Emerson
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.
SE.

Slightly OT, I have two cds of same performance of Richter's Brahms 2
with different timings. It appears, that first release was slightly
out of pitch (bad tape speed) and this was subsequently corrected.
Timings can be misleading sometimes.
Palexa Liszt is surely Richter at his best. Amazing Transcendental
Etudes can be found on Praga, from 1956 also (OOP, as usual).

You say "as usual". This is frustrating, of course, specially given
the stature of Sviatoslav Richter as a pianist. It shouldn't be so, of
course.
Thinking of that the other day as I listened, jaw on the ground, to
1) What is it that enables a human being to do what Richter does here?
Genius seems too facile a word, doesn't capture the whole.
2) Is Richter, perhaps, the greatest keyboard artist of the 20th
Century? Bar none? And probably the greatest since Liszt himself?
Hearing SR play the piano is one thing. Seeing and hearing him in
person is quite another thing. Fortunately I had the privilege of
hearing him in recital about a dozen times, mostly in the 1960s and
1970s, but also in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 60s and 70s there was
an intensity in his playing that was palpable. It was irrelevant what
he played, Beethoven, Brahms, Prokofiev, Scriabin, whatever. This you
hear in the Palexa CD. To hear him in Tours, France, each year, was a
pilgrimage I was only too willing to make. In the 80s and 90s the
intensity was less strong, but the ferocious determination of this
artist to come to grips with the score at hand was unbelievable. That
jutting jaw, the torso leaning over the keyboard, those huge mits
grappling with the notes, remain vivid images in my mind.
Later, I would come much closer to him and be frustrated by his whims,
and his vagueness (that stack of poorly identified DAT tapes he dumped
into our lap as his
"authorized recordings" was hardly the best present I ever received at
What was he doing playing the Gershwin Concerto, for example? Why did
he turn SS 2's second movement into a gallumping canter? But the
integrity of this artist remained intact throughout.
Interestingly, I think he didn't have a "sound", in the way that
Cherkassky did, for example, or Arrau. With Richter the "sound" was
the sound of the composer's music rather than something he
superimposed over it.
Technically his playing was always awesome, even when there were wrong
notes, and there were almost always wrong notes, as with Horowitz and
Rubinstein, and all the greats, in fact. Of no account. He suffered
from memory difficulties. So, perhaps after the Bach WTC fiasco in
Paris, he started to use the score. So did Myra Hess, who always said
"Well, you know, I can read music!". Lovely rejoinder. I do feel that
this requirement altered some of the intensity of Richter's playing.
That's my theory.
And yet.
I recall a Scriabin "Vers la flamme" which almost set the building in
Nijmegen (I think) on fire. Perhaps he thought he hadn't quite pulled
that trick off. So, he played it again.
Yes. I do believe that Richter would be my candidate for the title of
the Greatest Pianist of the 20th Century. At least that is my feeling
now. I may change my mind one day. But that Liszt CD sealed the deal,
I think.
Sorry, RK. This is not really a reply. Please forgive the length.
TD

TD, I agree about Richter completely. In my books there is only two
geniuses among pianists, Richter and Gould. But I'm not a great fan of
rating artists or performances, so I accept as a fact that dozens of
other pianists have shown flashes of genius here and there. Just not
in the consistent level of SR and GG.
Out of print recordings is a great shame, but eventually most of the
Richter stuff get a periodical reprint. Starting a Richter collection
right now is probably easier and cheaper than ever. I'll bet we'll see
the Czech radio tapes again in few years. I have noticed that Richter
boxes go right to the top of "monthly best-sellers" list of few
internet retailers, so there might even be some business to be made (I
have seen that business instinct is not the strong point of classical
music companies).
Now a tape of Richter playing Transcendentals in mid 40's would be a
thing to have, if only such tape would exist.

He learned the Liszt sonata in the 1930s while studying with Neuhaus.
But I don't know when he started to play the TEs.
I simply thank my lucky stars that we have what we have.
As for GG, well, yes, a genius. But also something of a nut, I would
say. In person, however, he was a very sweet, gentle soul. Strange
man.
TD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Also a very cute man when young.

[LaVirtuosa]

Post by td
Thinking of that the other day as I listened, jaw on the ground, to
1) What is it that enables a human being to do what Richter does here?
Genius seems too facile a word, doesn't capture the whole.
2) Is Richter, perhaps, the greatest keyboard artist of the 20th
Century? Bar none? And probably the greatest since Liszt himself?

Liberace had a natural concept of how to maximize certain measures in
Liszt.
If anyone cares to watch the dvd "Sincerely Yours" there's a scene
where he
plays what seems to be the opening measures of Mazeppa, and I can't
imagine
very many serious pianists today taking that kind of risk. But Liszt
is all about risk.
Liszt is over the top, not limited to mechanical rectitude.

******************Val

[td]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by td

Post by Steve Emerson
Why? Are you disputing Geffen and others who state that a CD from...
Philips included this same May 1965 Carnegie Hall performance,
mislabeled as "Budapest"?
Is there any evidence that this "Budapest" performance is different from
the Carnegie Hall 1965?

The tape received from Richter himself was clearly labelled Budapest.
Now, it is possible that it was mislabelled. It is not possible,
however, that Richter would have purposely misinformed Philips, since
he selected the materials himself. I am sure that he played the piece
any number of times in any number of places, Steve, and have trouble
believing that he would be able to correctly identify one performance
from among many some thirty years later.

All points well taken.
I wonder if the Monsaingeon book (which I no longer have) lists any
Budapest concerts where he played the sonata.
Tanin's discography includes numerous other *recordings*, unissued; none
in Budapest. And there's the "Moscow" recording on Brilliant....
It hardly matters -- the more interesting question is whether the
Philips and the Palexa are the same. (Besides Jeff's record, there's
also supposed to be a Melodiya LP of this.)

Post by td
I have not compared them, I have to say. The ear plays tricks in any
event when you have to take one CD out of the player and replay the
same section again.

Very true.

Post by td
I would imagine that equipment does exist that can
do that, but I certainly don't own it. Do you?

Short answer -- yes.
With the audio open on a computer, it's quite simple to jump back and
forth to equivalent moments anywhere in the tracks.
Once the eye becomes somewhat trained, gazing at a waveform of the
entire recording and comparing it to another will also usually tell you
what you need to know. And certainly when used together with the ear....
Even before that, it's simple to open up the audio of two tracks and
trim them until they start and end at exactly the same point, excising
the silence and applause -- and then just compare the timings. There
doesn't seem to be any reason for alterations that might affect those.
Especially in Richter's case, it's unlikely that two different
performances of a 30-minute work would time out identically to the
fraction of a second.

I can only think that this is a daunting task, Steve, enough to make
your ears dizzy!

My own suggestion would be to listen for some particular moment in the
score where he does something unique, unrepeatable. And then to see if
that is, indeed, repeated in the other recording. Sound waves? In
theory, at least, the music, itself, will produce similar soundwaves
no matter who is playing it providing that the score's indications are
followed by the compared pianists. This kind of comparison was done in
order to identify the Hatto hoax, but I presume that the expertise
required to make such positive identifications is considerable. I
certainly don't have it and don't plan to acquire it. But if you have
such expertise, I doff my hat to you. (actually, I never wear a hat,
but you get my point).

TD

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by td
I can only think that this is a daunting task, Steve, enough to make
your ears dizzy!
My own suggestion would be to listen for some particular moment in the
score where he does something unique, unrepeatable. And then to see if
that is, indeed, repeated in the other recording. Sound waves? In
theory, at least, the music, itself, will produce similar soundwaves
no matter who is playing it providing that the score's indications are
followed by the compared pianists.

Similar in the grossest way, yes, but still easily distinguishable one
set from another.

Post by td
This kind of comparison was done in
order to identify the Hatto hoax, but I presume that the expertise
required to make such positive identifications is considerable. I
certainly don't have it and don't plan to acquire it. But if you have
such expertise, I doff my hat to you. (actually, I never wear a hat,
but you get my point).

In some cases the task can be daunting. Say, if all applause has been
clipped from a live recording and the audience is silent throughout, and
the tracks are identical both in pitch and in duration (down to, say,
1/2 second). Otherwise, I don't find it that difficult.

After Henk Van Tuijl had lit on a near-certain candidate for the "Hatto"
pianist in the Debussy Etudes, I found the soundwaves useful in
confirming that. Although other things were more so.

Be all that as it may, I don't have any of the other releases of the
Carnegie Hall Liszt sonata, so that's that.

I see little cause to doubt the discographies on this matter; and I
imagine the Palexa people consulted the Philips release (the "Budapest")
and/or the discographies.

SE.

[John Thomas]

The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.

Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.

Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

-John Thomas

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

Ach. That's an ugly experience.

I've had similar ones but only with eBay's big, sloppy CD dealers. A
somewhat rare though recent or current disc is listed -- unlikely they
would have it. You "purchase." They send you something else. You
complain. They fix it. You piss away time in those portions mentioned by
T.S. Eliot.

SE.

[John Thomas]

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

Ach. That's an ugly experience.
I've had similar ones but only with eBay's big, sloppy CD dealers. A
somewhat rare though recent or current disc is listed -- unlikely they
would have it. You "purchase." They send you something else. You
complain. They fix it. You piss away time in those portions mentioned by
T.S. Eliot.
SE.

In fact that's pretty much what happened to me several months ago when
I ordered an alleged "New" copy of one of the Petersen Quartet's
Beethoven recordings from Caiman on Amazon. Of course we all know
those are out of print, but one can always hope. After not hearing
from Caiman after three weeks I e-mailed them and was told that their
distributor didn't have it in stock. Imagine that! I cancelled my
order and was assured that I would receive a refund within three
days. As 45 days from my original order approached I filed an A - Z
claim with Amazon and got my refund from them within a couple of
days. Happily, the seller who had listed a Very Good used copy still
had it and I was able to complete my Petersen Quartet's Beethoven
collection anyway. But interestingly enough, upon going back to the
Amazon page to place my second order, I noticed that Caiman was still
listing a "New" copy but had now quadrupled the price they had charged
me. So be warned.

-John Thomas

[td]

Post by John Thomas

Post by Steve Emerson
In article

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

Ach. That's an ugly experience.
I've had similar ones but only with eBay's big, sloppy CD dealers. A
somewhat rare though recent or current disc is listed -- unlikely they
would have it. You "purchase." They send you something else. You
complain. They fix it. You piss away time in those portions mentioned by
T.S. Eliot.
SE.

In fact that's pretty much what happened to me several months ago when
I ordered an alleged "New" copy of one of the Petersen Quartet's
Beethoven recordings from Caiman on Amazon.  Of course we all know
those are out of print, but one can always hope.  After not hearing
from Caiman after three weeks I e-mailed them and was told that their
distributor didn't have it in stock.  Imagine that!  I cancelled my
order and was assured that I would receive a refund within three
days.  As 45 days from my original order approached I filed an A - Z
claim with Amazon and got my refund from them within a couple of
days.  Happily, the seller who had listed a Very Good used copy still
had it and I was able to complete my Petersen Quartet's Beethoven
collection anyway.  But interestingly enough, upon going back to the
Amazon page to place my second order, I noticed that Caiman was still
listing a "New" copy but had now quadrupled the price they had charged
me.  So be warned.

I have learned not to bother ordering any "unavailable" materials from
caiman. In such cases you are better to order from a REAL used CD
seller, even if it is more costly to do so. They will probably have
your CD and be able to ship it to you.

TD

[Bob Lombard]

Post by td
I have learned not to bother ordering any "unavailable" materials from
caiman. In such cases you are better to order from a REAL used CD
seller, even if it is more costly to do so. They will probably have
your CD and be able to ship it to you.
TD

Ahem. Agreed. For example, all items listed by LombardMusic are in
inventory.

For Gerard's information I add that RMCR members get no price reduction
whatsoever.

bl

[Frank Berger]

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.
-John Thomas

Following your earlier post on ordering this I ordered it from somewhere or
other that indicated it was in stock. It was not. The item has been
discontinued, or is at least temporatily OOP by Palexa. I would be
extremely sceptical of source that claims to have it. It is interesting
that many Palexa items are available, either new or used, but this one seems
to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

[td]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.
-John Thomas

Following your earlier post on ordering this I ordered it from somewhere or
other that indicated it was in stock.  It was not.  The item has been
discontinued, or is at least temporatily OOP by Palexa.  I would be
extremely sceptical of source that claims to have it.   It is interesting
that many Palexa items are available, either new or used, but this one seems
to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

Well, not completely.

Some of us obtained copies of this when it was available.

The company is KAPUT, as far as I know, which is a great pity.

TD

[Steve Emerson]

Post by Frank Berger
It is interesting
that many Palexa items are available, either new or used, but this one seems
to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

Presumably it sold better than most (no surprise), hence the finite
amount of stock was exhausted more quickly. Such stock as has not been
exhausted remains in the distribution channel.

As mentioned previously, the U.S. distributor's site is useful on this
matter. Palexa listings start here:

http://www.allegro-music.com/label_search.asp?label=PLX


"Back Order" at that point would mean Allegro ran out and is ostensibly
hoping in vain that more copies of the item will arrive.

The Bolet is gone. Brand Volume 1 is not.

TD reported buying Annie Fischer in Montreal from BRO (which no longer
has any). I'd imagine Allegro had simply unloaded some excess stock onto
BRO. Since Allegro continues to have the disc on hand, it would be wrong
to call it "remaindered."

Which reminds me, I wonder what Dershavina/Derzhavina's Schubert and
Medtner are like.

SE.

[Kip Williams]

Post by Steve Emerson
Which reminds me, I wonder what Dershavina/Derzhavina's Schubert and
Medtner are like.

Glad you mentioned her. I still have a couple of months to download the
old free tracks from the Classical Music Archives before I let the
subscription lapse (they're going over to a model of mostly
pay-per-track -- after you pay to be a member -- so after all these
years, farewell to thee, CMA). Tonight I'm starting a methodical
download of Dershavina tracks. Lots of Haydn, to start with.


Kip W

[td]

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

John, I am so very sorry to read your negative experience. I feared
that it was not available, really, despite their claim. And so it
turned out.

TD

[Matthew B. Tepper]

John Thomas <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:6195b1dd-02a2-4f5c-8ee0-6108102a54f4

The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter Liszt
CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived Saturday when I
was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it. So, having
been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in about the same
time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the VDE
label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have Babelfished
Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to return their
CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this vendor.
-John Thomas

Jog my memory a bit -- who was it who recommended you buy this CD?

[M. A.]

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

To make things even weirder:

I also ordered from this vendor, and I also got the same Romanian CD.

The funny things is, I haven't even paid it yet! There was no way to use the
credit card, and I didn't want to send a cheque, so I used the third option
(french money order of some sort) without knowing how to do this. So I wrote
them an e-mail in french after ordering asking them to tell me how to wire
the money internationally. I never got a reply, never paid anything, but I
got the romanian CD.

Anyone interested in it?

M. A.

[John Thomas]

Post by M. A.

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

I also ordered from this vendor, and I also got the same Romanian CD.
The funny things is, I haven't even paid it yet! There was no way to use the
credit card, and I didn't want to send a cheque, so I used the third option
them an e-mail in french after ordering asking them to tell me how to wire
the money internationally. I never got a reply, never paid anything, but I
got the romanian CD.
Anyone interested in it?
M. A.

Not funny at all. This site is clearly a racket. How is it you
couldn't use a credit card? I used mine and they required me to sign
up for "Verified by Visa" before they would process my purchase. They
must get a commission from that.

-John Thomas

[td]

Post by M. A.

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

I also ordered from this vendor, and I also got the same Romanian CD.
The funny things is, I haven't even paid it yet! There was no way to use the
credit card, and I didn't want to send a cheque, so I used the third option
them an e-mail in french after ordering asking them to tell me how to wire
the money internationally. I never got a reply, never paid anything, but I
got the romanian CD.
Anyone interested in it?
M. A.

Not funny at all.  This site is clearly a racket.  How is it you
couldn't use a credit card?  I used mine and they required me to sign
up for "Verified by Visa" before they would process my purchase.  They
must get a commission from that.

I think that is an extra level of protection Visa is using in order to
bring down the level of fraudulent use of CCs.

TD

[John Thomas]

Post by td

Post by M. A.

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today.  Well, actually it arrived Saturday
when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to sign for it.
So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I received it in
about the same time period a standard delivery from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on the
VDE label.  No sign of a piano player on the recording.  I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more euros to
return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll dispute the
charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post:  Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

I also ordered from this vendor, and I also got the same Romanian CD.
The funny things is, I haven't even paid it yet! There was no way to use the
credit card, and I didn't want to send a cheque, so I used the third option
them an e-mail in french after ordering asking them to tell me how to wire
the money internationally. I never got a reply, never paid anything, but I
got the romanian CD.
Anyone interested in it?
M. A.

Not funny at all.  This site is clearly a racket.  How is it you
couldn't use a credit card?  I used mine and they required me to sign
up for "Verified by Visa" before they would process my purchase.  They
must get a commission from that.

I think that is an extra level of protection Visa is using in order to
bring down the level of fraudulent use of CCs.
TD

Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for it
in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.

-John Thomas

[Frank Berger]

Post by John Thomas

Post by td

Post by M. A.

Post by John Thomas
The package from Intégrale Music supposedly containing the Richter
Liszt CD on Palexa arrived today. Well, actually it arrived
Saturday when I was not home so I had to go to the PO today to
sign for it. So, having been required to pay for Express Mail I
received it in about the same time period a standard delivery
from France would take.
Inside the package - "ROUMANIE Musique de villages: Olténie" on
the VDE label. No sign of a piano player on the recording. I have
Babelfished Intégrale to let them know I'm not paying 24 more
euros to return their CD and to please refund my money or I'll
dispute the charge with my bank.
Shorter version of this post: Don't buy anything ever from this
vendor.

I also ordered from this vendor, and I also got the same Romanian CD.
The funny things is, I haven't even paid it yet! There was no way
to use the credit card, and I didn't want to send a cheque, so I
used the third option (french money order of some sort) without
knowing how to do this. So I wrote them an e-mail in french after
ordering asking them to tell me how to wire the money
internationally. I never got a reply, never paid anything, but I
got the romanian CD.
Anyone interested in it?
M. A.

Not funny at all. This site is clearly a racket. How is it you
couldn't use a credit card? I used mine and they required me to sign
up for "Verified by Visa" before they would process my purchase.
They must get a commission from that.

I think that is an extra level of protection Visa is using in order
to bring down the level of fraudulent use of CCs.
TD

Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for it
in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog number causing
them to associate the wrong merchandise with your order. It's not the first
time it's happened and won't be the last. Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a
child who loses a coin flip and whines "It's not fair."

[John Thomas]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for it
in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog number causing
them to associate the wrong merchandise with your order.  It's not the first
time it's happened and won't be the last. Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a
child who loses a coin flip and whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank. There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment, and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

-John Thomas

[Frank Berger]

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for
it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog number
causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your order.
It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment, and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

[Gerard]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up
for it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having
being committed. Probably something got screwed up with the
catalog number causing them to associate the wrong merchandise
with your order. It's not the first time it's happened and won't
be the last. Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a
coin flip and whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Congratulations!
You're the only one.

[John Thomas]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for
it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog number
causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your order.
It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
 There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment,  and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

You compare making an online purchase with a valid credit card and
receiving the wrong product *after* I'd cancelled the order with
tossing a coin and complaining when the side I pick doesn't come up?
"Normal" is not the word I'd choose for someone like you. You're no
more than an apologist for the criminal gang that owns this country
and you lick their boots with no shame whatsoever.

-John Thomas

-John Thomas

[td]

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for
it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog number
causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your order.
It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
 There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment,  and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

You compare making an online purchase with a valid credit card and
receiving the wrong product *after* I'd cancelled the order with
tossing a coin and complaining  when the side I pick doesn't come up?
"Normal" is not the word I'd choose for someone like you.  You're no
more than an apologist for the criminal gang that owns this country
and you lick their boots with no shame whatsoever.

What Frank? Lick boots?

Hell, he isn't a boot-licker. He's an enabler.

TD

[Frank Berger]

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up
for it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog
number causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your
order. It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

I could keep provoking you, but I won't.

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment, and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

You compare making an online purchase with a valid credit card and
receiving the wrong product *after* I'd cancelled the order with
tossing a coin and complaining when the side I pick doesn't come up?
"Normal" is not the word I'd choose for someone like you. You're no
more than an apologist for the criminal gang that owns this country
and you lick their boots with no shame whatsoever.
-John Thomas
-John Thomas

[Frank Berger]

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up
for it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog
number causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your
order. It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment, and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

You compare making an online purchase with a valid credit card and
receiving the wrong product *after* I'd cancelled the order with

If they wanted to defraud you they could just keep your money and send you
nothing.

Post by John Thomas
tossing a coin and complaining when the side I pick doesn't come up?

Not exactly - complaining that it wasn't fair.

Post by John Thomas
"Normal" is not the word I'd choose for someone like you.
You're no more than an apologist for the criminal gang that owns this
country
and you lick their boots with no shame whatsoever.

I could provoke you further, but won't.

[td]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas

Post by Frank Berger

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up
for it in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.
-John Thomas

As far as I can see, you have zero evidence of a fraud having being
committed. Probably something got screwed up with the catalog
number causing them to associate the wrong merchandise with your
order. It's not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
Claiming "fraud" reminds me of a child who loses a coin flip and
whines "It's not fair."

Spoken liker a true Randian libertarian, Frank.

No. Spoken like a normal person.

Post by John Thomas
There's a lucrative
spot for you on CNBC.
I wonder why Intégrale has not responded to any of my e-mails about
the error, why they have not returned
my payment, and why they ignored my original request to cancel the
order and shipped anyway.

Apply Occam's razor.

You compare making an online purchase with a valid credit card and
receiving the wrong product *after* I'd cancelled the order with

If they wanted to defraud you they could just keep your money and send you
nothing.

Post by John Thomas
tossing a coin and complaining  when the side I pick doesn't come up?

Not exactly - complaining that it wasn't fair.

Post by John Thomas
"Normal" is not the word I'd choose for someone like you.
You're no more than an apologist for the criminal gang that owns this
country
and you lick their boots with no shame whatsoever.

I could provoke you further, but won't.

How sweet of you.

Almost as convolutedly so as Tepper's cause and effect is paranoid.

TD

[Matthew B. Tepper]

John Thomas <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:31f3dc3e-f63a-4368-b1fa-

Post by John Thomas
Right, but this is the first time I've been required to sign up for it
in order to complete a transaction.
And doing so certainly didn't prevent the commission of a fraud.

So who was it who touted this particular piano recording to the extent that
you bought it and was defrauded? I can't imagine such a thing happening!

[Frank Berger]

Post by tomdeacon

This looks like it:http://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=21047

Grab it!
However, I doubt that they can deliver an actual CD.
TD

Well, I did. €24 for shipping! This better be good or I'll have to
apply for a stimulus.
-John Thomas

Please report back when you actually receive this CD. Thanks.

[gperkins151]

Post by td
From an unlikely source, a small, now defunct, I think, Canadian label
comes one of those CDs that simply blows all competition out of the
water.
Palexa is/was run by a lover of pianists, that is for sure. And there
have been many recordings of piano music of various levels of quality
which have appeared during its existence. But for CD-0537 its owners
sourced some truly great performances of Liszt by, arguably, the
greatest Liszt player of his or any age: Sviatoslav Richter.
On it he plays the Liszt Sonata (Carnegie Hall, 1965), Funerailles
(Budapest, 1959) and 8, get that, 8 Transcendental Etudes (Moscow,
1956).
Richter was in his absolute prime in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.
So, what we get here is the pianist uninhibited by memory problems
unleashed upon some of the greatest music Liszt ever wrote. How can
you possibly lose.
I probably prefer the Feux follets from 1958 in Sofia, but I am
quibbling. The whole CD is simply an astounding display of
musicianship, technique, temperament, poetry, passion, well,
everything that goes to make up a performance of a lifetime.
Wonder what HCS thought about the Liszt Sonata. I should check the NYT
archive to see what he said. At that time he was inexplicably down on
Sviatoslav Richter.
I did a quick search on amazon. Only amazon in the UK lists this as
available, although they say it takes one to two months for delivery.
Read: they don't have it and probably can't get it.
What a pity!
This CD really needs to circulate.
Scour ebay for a copy and pay what they are asking. This is something
truly special.
TD

I was lucky enough to find a new copy last week in NYC at JandR music.
I plan to check it out this weekend and will post my impressions here.
Thanks very much form reminding me about this CD. I had it wishlisted
for a very long time but never pulled the trigger.

George