Discussion:
Brahms Violin Concerto
(too old to reply)
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-12 21:09:15 UTC
Permalink
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)

Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.

Matty
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-12 21:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think).
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.

Matty
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-12 21:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).

Matty
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-12 21:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.

Matty
Steven de Mena
2005-12-12 21:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Matty
I bet you'll find the Perlman/Giulini recording if you keep digging.

Steve
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-12 22:35:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven de Mena
I bet you'll find the Perlman/Giulini recording if you keep digging.
I know I've never owned that one!

Matty
w***@comcast.net
2005-12-12 21:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
I recommend this one.

Bill
Richard Loeb
2005-12-12 23:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Is that Milstein with Steinberg???? Richard
Post by w***@comcast.net
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
I recommend this one.
Bill
Owen Hartnett
2005-12-13 04:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Loeb
Is that Milstein with Steinberg???? Richard
Post by w***@comcast.net
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
I recommend this one.
Me too.

-Owen
w***@comcast.net
2005-12-14 21:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Loeb
Post by w***@comcast.net
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
I recommend this one.
Is that Milstein with Steinberg????
Yes.

Bill
Paul Kintzele
2005-12-12 21:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Maybe I don't need any more
*Shock* *horror*

Careful--words like that can get you expelled from this group.

You already have many worthy versions, but among recent accounts, Hilary
Hahn's performance with Marriner/ASMF is a contender--sweet tone, but
with a laserlike focus. Recorded sound is exemplary, and the Stravinsky
coupling is also very fine. Some years ago, I saw Hahn play the Brahms
concerto with Sawallisch/Philly--an amazing performance.

Paul
Brian Burtt
2005-12-13 15:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Kintzele
Maybe I don't need any more
*Shock* *horror*
Careful--words like that can get you expelled from this group.
You already have many worthy versions, but among recent accounts, Hilary
Hahn's performance with Marriner/ASMF is a contender--sweet tone, but with
a laserlike focus. Recorded sound is exemplary, and the Stravinsky
coupling is also very fine. Some years ago, I saw Hahn play the Brahms
concerto with Sawallisch/Philly--an amazing performance.
Paul
I was going to recomend Hahn as well. I actually find the Brahms VC tough
to warm up to--I'm more likely to listen to this disc for the
Stravinsky--but both are excellent performances.

--Brian
Frank Berger
2005-12-12 22:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Matty
Careful, you are in danger of offending Norman.
Simon Roberts
2005-12-13 01:55:51 UTC
Permalink
In article <1qcd82ol26oje.1fmp4pdzjzf6k$***@40tude.net>, Matthew Silverstein
says...
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein. Of those I've heard, these three are in
a class by themselves as far as conducting goes (the violin playing in the first
two is hardly to be sneezed at either).

Simon
Paul Ilechko
2005-12-13 02:25:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
says...
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein. Of those I've heard, these three are in
a class by themselves as far as conducting goes (the violin playing in the first
two is hardly to be sneezed at either).
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
Simon Roberts
2005-12-13 14:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Simon Roberts
says...
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein. Of those I've heard, these three are in
a class by themselves as far as conducting goes (the violin playing in the first
two is hardly to be sneezed at either).
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
I'm recommending it for the conducting.

Simon
Paul Ilechko
2005-12-13 21:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Paul Ilechko
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
I'm recommending it for the conducting.
I know, but it's hard to ignore the soloists ;-)
Simon Roberts
2005-12-13 21:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Paul Ilechko
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
I'm recommending it for the conducting.
I know, but it's hard to ignore the soloists ;-)
Well, yes, but since just about everyone has been ignoring the orchestra's
contribution, and I can't....

Simon
Lena
2005-12-13 22:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Paul Ilechko
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
I'm recommending it for the conducting.
I know, but it's hard to ignore the soloists ;-)
You're not sufficiently focused on the percussion section. :)

Sorry, I can't recommend anything, since I can't seem to detach myself
from the Oistrakh/Konwitschny (Matty already has that). At most I'd
get another Oistrakh. :) (I.e. never accept a CD recommendation from
a love-struck listener.)

Lena
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-14 01:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein.
Is that the recording that comes in the DG budget box along with
Bernstein's recording of the symphonies?

Matty
Simon Roberts
2005-12-14 03:14:56 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Matthew
Silverstein says...
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Simon Roberts
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein.
Is that the recording that comes in the DG budget box along with
Bernstein's recording of the symphonies?
Yes (though I have a much older incarnation). I can't say I would recommend the
rest of the contents of that box, though....

Simon
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-14 19:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Yes (though I have a much older incarnation). I can't say I would recommend the
rest of the contents of that box, though....
I've heard at least 2 (1 and 4, perhaps) of Bernstein's DG Brahms
symphonies, and I quite liked both (although neither are favorites).
It's so cheap from BMG I decided to give it a try (my order had free
shipping, don't worry).

Matty
Alan Cooper
2005-12-13 00:42:53 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:18:33 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
If that's Oistrakh/Konwitschny, you have his best studio recording.
You do not need O/Klemperer or O/Szell. You do need some
historicals, esp. Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and
Krebbers/Mengelberg. There are about a zillion good stereo
recordings. See Paul Goldstein's recommendation of three of them. If
you like Szeryng/Monteux, you'll want to hear the live
Milstein/Monteux with the Concertgebouw, too. Lately I've developed a
lot of affection for Ferras/Karajan. It's really gorgeous, and Ferras
scores points with me by playing the wonderful Kreisler cadenza in the
first movement (so does Kreisler ;-). I've been on something of a
Ferras binge recently. What a fine player he was!

AC
Satid S.
2005-12-13 03:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:18:33 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Lately I've developed a
lot of affection for Ferras/Karajan. It's really gorgeous, and Ferras
scores points with me by playing the wonderful Kreisler cadenza in the
first movement (so does Kreisler ;-). I've been on something of a
Ferras binge recently. What a fine player he was!
AC
I second this performance. This was my very first encounter with
Brahms' VC about 15 years ago. It is coupled with a nice Violin Sonata
no. 1. Ferras' solo part is clean and admirably clear while BPO's
contribution is good (if only its recorded sound were just a bit
clearer). Australian Eloquence reissueed this CD not long ago.

Since I bought his one, several others followed;
- Hoelcher/Bruno Wiel on EMI : too slow and thus lacks expressive power
in fast passages. The coupling of Bruch's VC #1 on this disk is also a
bot slow but better than Brahms'.
- Oistrakh/Klemperer on EMI : Good performance with decent recorded
sound that turns out too muddy in tutti. The coupling of Mozart's
Sinfonia Concertante by Oistrakh father/son is superb.
- Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hanssler : the best sound that I have for
this work but too slow in fast passages. I prefer Mendelssohn's VC on
this disk.
- Perlman/Giulini on EMI : good but not surpassing Ferras/HvK. And no
coupling is a minor drawback.

I wonder if Ferras' LvB VC with HvK/BPO on DG is worth collecting ?

Satid S.
Steve Emerson
2005-12-13 01:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
I'll second Alan -- this is Oistrakh's greatest studio recording, with
much to recommend it that lacks in the Klemperer and Szell accounts. The
fiery recording with Kondrashin (and Oistrakh) is, however,
indispensable.

Also pretty fiery, I would recommend Francescatti/Bernstein.

And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.

SE.
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-13 04:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.
This evening for that dollar-fifty I got Menuhin's recording of the Nielsen.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Alan Cooper
2005-12-13 22:16:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:46:24 -0800, Steve Emerson
Post by Steve Emerson
And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.
Yes. Minchev! One of the all-time great "sleepers." People generally
are flabbergasted to hear a performance of this quality by artists
they've never heard of. (The Bulgarian orchestra is excellent as
well.)

AC
Richard Loeb
2005-12-12 21:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think).
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
Matty
I have fond memories of the Monteux-Szering Richard
Frank Berger
2005-12-12 22:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think).
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
Matty
If only that was Julian.
Frank Berger
2005-12-12 22:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
There are so many. I'm going with Victor Tretyakov (cond. Fedoseyev) on
Olympia 102

http://tinyurl.com/dfvsm

not because it's better than a lot of others, but so that I can ask if
anyone knows when it was recorded? I also would like the recording date of
the accompanying Schumann Cello Concerto with Lusanov (cond.
Rozhdestvensky).

A few others than pop into mind are Krebbers/Haitink, Oistrakh/Konswitschny,

You'll get so many opinions that they'll probably be of little use to you.
Rich S.
2005-12-12 22:18:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:09:15 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
Frank Berger
2005-12-12 22:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich S.
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:09:15 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
1928 actually. I like that also.
S***@provide.net
2005-12-12 22:35:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:18:03 GMT, Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
I will also vote for this recording as well as the
Menuhin\Furtwangler and the Erica Morini recording with Rodzinski.


S.
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-12 23:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by S***@provide.net
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:18:03 GMT, Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
I will also vote for this recording as well as the
Menuhin\Furtwangler and the Erica Morini recording with Rodzinski.
S.
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've
turned to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not. I have a
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
S***@provide.net
2005-12-13 00:10:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:47:05 -0500, "Richard Loeb"
Post by S***@provide.net
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:18:03 GMT, Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
I will also vote for this recording as well as the
Menuhin\Furtwangler and the Erica Morini recording with Rodzinski.
S.
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've turned
to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not. I have a
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his Brahms symphonies on DG originals Richard
An excellent choice......!


S.
Richard Loeb
2005-12-12 23:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by S***@provide.net
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:18:03 GMT, Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
Post by Rich S.
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
I will also vote for this recording as well as the
Menuhin\Furtwangler and the Erica Morini recording with Rodzinski.
S.
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've turned
to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not. I have a
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his Brahms symphonies on DG originals Richard
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-13 04:16:13 UTC
Permalink
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review (from a
not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-13 14:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review
(from a not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
Played by the LPO. They aren't quite as flexible as the DGG accounts,
but I don't really think they
are nearly as bad as some make out. As opposed to his earlier
recordings, he withdrew from Romantic excess
and focused more on the Classical roots. I find them well played,
clear in texture, and maybe a bit "straight"
compared to Furty. I have the set on LP, and rather like it.

Who was the reviewer?
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-13 15:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Sacqueboutier <***@nocomspamcast.net> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:2005121309263577904-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review
(from a not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
Played by the LPO. They aren't quite as flexible as the DGG accounts,
but I don't really think they are nearly as bad as some make out. As
opposed to his earlier recordings, he withdrew from Romantic excess
and focused more on the Classical roots. I find them well played,
clear in texture, and maybe a bit "straight" compared to Furty. I have
the set on LP, and rather like it.
Who was the reviewer?
Hewell Tircuit, in the San Francisco Chronicle c. 1979.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-13 16:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:2005121309263577904-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review
(from a not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
Played by the LPO. They aren't quite as flexible as the DGG accounts,
but I don't really think they are nearly as bad as some make out. As
opposed to his earlier recordings, he withdrew from Romantic excess
and focused more on the Classical roots. I find them well played,
clear in texture, and maybe a bit "straight" compared to Furty. I have
the set on LP, and rather like it.
Who was the reviewer?
Hewell Tircuit, in the San Francisco Chronicle c. 1979.
Yeah, I've always considered his articles the epitome of pretentiousness.

Regarding Jochum/Brahms II, he's wrong. Don't expect it to be like the
DGG set (with what
was essentially Furtwangler's BPO), but it has its own merits.

I think I'll transfer my LPs to CDR.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Steven de Mena
2005-12-13 15:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review (from a
not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
They were uploaded recently to the newsgroups (I believe) if you want to
audition them. I haven't heard them yet.

Steve
Paul Kintzele
2005-12-13 04:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.

Paul
Alan Cooper
2005-12-13 22:21:20 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:16:13 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review (from a
not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
The DG performances are generally taut, brisk, exciting, and
wonderfully played. There is no comparison with the EMI set, which is
inferior in every respect, imo. It is worth the price of the DG set
just to have Jochum's #2 finale.

AC
Simon Roberts
2005-12-13 01:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've
turned to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not.
It was briefly in one of DG's odder cheap twofers.

I have a
Post by Sacqueboutier
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
And easily the sourest sounding oboe in any recording I've heard of the
piece.... (but yes, one of the better conducted stereo efforts).

Simon
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-13 03:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Sacqueboutier
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've
turned to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not.
It was briefly in one of DG's odder cheap twofers.
I have a
Post by Sacqueboutier
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
And easily the sourest sounding oboe in any recording I've heard of the
piece.... (but yes, one of the better conducted stereo efforts).
Simon
Oboe didn't bother me here as much as he did in Barbirolli's Brahms cycle...
especially in the 4th symphony. (Let go of that cat's tail, dammit!)
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Vaneyes
2005-12-12 23:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).

Regards
tomdeacon
2005-12-12 23:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vaneyes
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
BINGO!

Give this man a cigar!

TD
tomdeacon
2005-12-13 00:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Vaneyes
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
BINGO!
Give this man a cigar!
Yes, Mr Deacon, from the Lewinski box?
Mike
Some people are so vulgar when they get a chance.

Poor Monica!

TD
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-13 00:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Vaneyes
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
BINGO!
Give this man a cigar!
Yes, Mr Deacon, from the Lewinski box?
Mike
Some people are so vulgar when they get a chance.
Poor Monica!
TD
Pot...kettle...black.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Mike
2005-12-13 00:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Vaneyes
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
BINGO!
Give this man a cigar!
Yes, Mr Deacon, from the Lewinski box?

Mike
Paul Ilechko
2005-12-12 23:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
Milstein/Fistoulari
Paul Goldstein
2005-12-12 23:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Heifetz/Toscanini live in the NYP historical box set. If only the sound were
better.

Good modern stereo versions: Krebbers/Haitink, Grumiaux/Davis, Szeryng/Monteux.

I like Oistrakh/Szell better than Oistrakh/Klemperer.
Todd Schurk
2005-12-13 01:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
Here is a favorite that has not been mentioned-Scneiderhan/Van
Kempen/Berlin Philharmonic.
Mark Melson
2005-12-13 01:53:07 UTC
Permalink
I have great affection for the Stern-Ormandy/Philadelphia performance
that was available for a long time (and maybe still is?) on Sony
Essential Classics. Stern is in excellent shape, with silken tone and
a nice balance of power and poetry. Ormandy's approach to Brahms -
rich and weighty - is a little out of fashion today, but I love it.
This is one of Stern's very best recordings, catching him in his
prime.

Mark Melson

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:09:15 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
Dave Cook
2005-12-13 04:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Szeryng/Monteux. I have this on one of those French RCA wallet-style
twofers with the awful cover art.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//74321845882.htm

Dave Cook
Dave Cook
2005-12-13 06:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cook
Szeryng/Monteux. I have this on one of those French RCA wallet-style
twofers with the awful cover art.
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//74321845882.htm
Also http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=58920

Oh, and if you need to spend more cash, there's an XRCD:

http://alnk.org/dearcock

Dave Cook
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-13 06:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Anyway, of all the recordings I have, the one I listen to most often is Zino
Francescatti's recording on Sony, with Leonard Bernstein conducting the NY
Philharmonic. It's on one of those Sony Prince Charles special edition CDs,
and you get a very excellent recording of the Sibelius violin concerto as
well.
How many times did Francescatti record this for Sony? I seem to recall
coming across a recording with Mitropolous (on Masterwords Heritage)
and one with Szell (on Essential Classics).

Matty
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-13 14:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
How many times did Francescatti record this for Sony? I seem to recall
coming across a recording with Mitropolous (on Masterwords Heritage)
and one with Szell (on Essential Classics).
No, no, no. I did not have a good day yesterday. Those are his
recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto. Sheesh.

Matty
m***@yahoo.co.uk
2005-12-13 08:26:43 UTC
Permalink
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended.
LOL ;-)

Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).

mark stratford
tomdeacon
2005-12-13 13:43:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@yahoo.co.uk
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended.
LOL ;-)
Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).
mark stratford
Yes, Mark.

He recorded it with the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta for
RC A Victor. It was coupled with the Bruch No. 1 on 0926-68046-2.

TD
Steven de Mena
2005-12-13 15:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by m***@yahoo.co.uk
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended.
LOL ;-)
Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).
mark stratford
Yes, Mark.
He recorded it with the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta for
RC A Victor. It was coupled with the Bruch No. 1 on 0926-68046-2.
TD
It was re-released in 2003 in a 24bit/96kHz remaster on BMG 82876 55268-2.
Same coupling.

Steve
Frank Berger
2005-12-13 16:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven de Mena
Post by tomdeacon
Post by m***@yahoo.co.uk
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended.
LOL ;-)
Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).
mark stratford
Yes, Mark.
He recorded it with the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta for
RC A Victor. It was coupled with the Bruch No. 1 on 0926-68046-2.
TD
It was re-released in 2003 in a 24bit/96kHz remaster on BMG 82876 55268-2.
Same coupling.
Steve
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
tomdeacon
2005-12-13 16:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
Taking your comments ironically, Frank - hell, how else can one take
your posts? - I would say that you are off the mark.

IF Pinky had bothered to stick to what he can do best and practise he
would have distanced Perlman and most of his colleagues quite easily.
But I think he got bored of the actual time he had to spend with the
instrument.

When he was "on", he was a fabulously gifted violinist. And perhaps he
can still do it today. Just don't know.

TD
Steven de Mena
2005-12-13 17:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Frank Berger
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
Taking your comments ironically, Frank - hell, how else can one take
your posts? - I would say that you are off the mark.
IF Pinky had bothered to stick to what he can do best and practise he
would have distanced Perlman and most of his colleagues quite easily.
But I think he got bored of the actual time he had to spend with the
instrument.
When he was "on", he was a fabulously gifted violinist. And perhaps he
can still do it today. Just don't know.
TD
I read a recent interview with Zukerman where they basically came right out
and said the same thing you did. I can't remember what he said, I think he
tried to dispute the fact Perlman has had a more successful career than he
has. If the interview was online I can't seem to find it.

I haven't seen anyone mention the Anne-Sophie Metter/Kurt Masur recording.
I'll have to go back and listen to that one after I finish the Zukerman. I
remember it being quite emotional. The performance was dedicated to her late
husband who had recently died.

Steve
a***@att.net
2005-12-14 00:39:42 UTC
Permalink
TD is right about Zuckerman. I played the Vieuxtemps VC5 for my friend
in the NY Phil who was really impressed. He was quite surprised that it
was Z. Yes, he has tremendous natural talent, great than Perlman for
sure

AB
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Frank Berger
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
Taking your comments ironically, Frank - hell, how else can one take
your posts? - I would say that you are off the mark.
IF Pinky had bothered to stick to what he can do best and practise he
would have distanced Perlman and most of his colleagues quite easily.
But I think he got bored of the actual time he had to spend with the
instrument.
When he was "on", he was a fabulously gifted violinist. And perhaps he
can still do it today. Just don't know.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-14 02:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@att.net
TD is right about Zuckerman. I played the Vieuxtemps VC5 for my friend
in the NY Phil who was really impressed. He was quite surprised that it
was Z. Yes, he has tremendous natural talent, great than Perlman for
sure
I once tried to persuade him to add the Nielsen concerto to his repertoire,
but he didn't like the work's odd construction, probably the first movement
with its lengthy introduction.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
a***@att.net
2005-12-14 21:27:56 UTC
Permalink
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?

AB
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I once tried to persuade him to add the Nielsen concerto to his repertoire,
but he didn't like the work's odd construction, probably the first movement
with its lengthy introduction.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Gerard
2005-12-14 21:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
Some earlier cases.

Tepper 14 jan 2000:

(I once trudged down a hallway with Pinchas Zukerman, trying in
vain to get him to agree to play the work in Minneapolis; I was about as
successful as I was trying to get Tennstedt to conduct Zemlinsky),


Tepper 4 jun 2000:

I wish you better luck than when I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to
play the Nielsen Concerto!


Tepper 26 dec 2000:

I know it's useless name-dropping, for which I shall be amply and justly
chided, but I once tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen.
He considered it "uninteresting." There. Now I'll take my lumps.


Tepper 15 mrt 2001:

Once I tried to persuade him to take up the Nielsen Concerto,
and he dismissed it out of hand as uninteresting.


Tepper 26 feb 2002:

I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to take
up the Nielsen Violin Concerto


Tepper 2 jun 2002:

I tried once to persuade Pinky to play and record this piece; but he wasn't
interested, at least in part because of the long discursive introduction.


Tepper 14 mrt 2003:

Similarly, I tried to
persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen Violin Concerto, but he
thought it was too oddly-constructed a piece.


Tepper 1 jun 2003:

I tried some years ago to persuade Pinchas Zukerman that he ought to
perform and record the piece, as I think it would have been ideally suited
to his temperament. Unfortunately, he doesn't like the structure of the
work (that long intro, for one thing), which leads me to suspect that he
hadn't really studied it at length and just thought it wasn't showy enough.


Tepper 11 feb 2005:

I once tried in vain to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to perform it, but he
wasn't interested.


Tepper 13 oct. 2005:

I tried to talk him into playing it, but he wasn't
too keen on it, because of the construction of the first movement.
Matthew Silverstein
2005-12-14 22:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Some earlier cases.
[snip]

Nice.

Matty
tomdeacon
2005-12-14 22:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
Some earlier cases.
(I once trudged down a hallway with Pinchas Zukerman, trying in
vain to get him to agree to play the work in Minneapolis; I was about as
successful as I was trying to get Tennstedt to conduct Zemlinsky),
I wish you better luck than when I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to
play the Nielsen Concerto!
I know it's useless name-dropping, for which I shall be amply and justly
chided, but I once tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen.
He considered it "uninteresting." There. Now I'll take my lumps.
Once I tried to persuade him to take up the Nielsen Concerto,
and he dismissed it out of hand as uninteresting.
I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to take
up the Nielsen Violin Concerto
I tried once to persuade Pinky to play and record this piece; but he wasn't
interested, at least in part because of the long discursive introduction.
Similarly, I tried to
persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen Violin Concerto, but he
thought it was too oddly-constructed a piece.
I tried some years ago to persuade Pinchas Zukerman that he ought to
perform and record the piece, as I think it would have been ideally suited
to his temperament. Unfortunately, he doesn't like the structure of the
work (that long intro, for one thing), which leads me to suspect that he
hadn't really studied it at length and just thought it wasn't showy enough.
I once tried in vain to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to perform it, but he
wasn't interested.
I tried to talk him into playing it, but he wasn't
too keen on it, because of the construction of the first movement.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Perhaps this will be the LAST time Tepper tries to rererererelease that
story.

TD
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-14 23:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Gerard
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
Some earlier cases.
(I once trudged down a hallway with Pinchas Zukerman, trying in
vain to get him to agree to play the work in Minneapolis; I was about as
successful as I was trying to get Tennstedt to conduct Zemlinsky),
I wish you better luck than when I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to
play the Nielsen Concerto!
I know it's useless name-dropping, for which I shall be amply and justly
chided, but I once tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen.
He considered it "uninteresting." There. Now I'll take my lumps.
Once I tried to persuade him to take up the Nielsen Concerto,
and he dismissed it out of hand as uninteresting.
I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to take
up the Nielsen Violin Concerto
I tried once to persuade Pinky to play and record this piece; but he wasn't
interested, at least in part because of the long discursive introduction.
Similarly, I tried to
persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen Violin Concerto, but he
thought it was too oddly-constructed a piece.
I tried some years ago to persuade Pinchas Zukerman that he ought to
perform and record the piece, as I think it would have been ideally suited
to his temperament. Unfortunately, he doesn't like the structure of the
work (that long intro, for one thing), which leads me to suspect that he
hadn't really studied it at length and just thought it wasn't showy enough.
I once tried in vain to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to perform it, but he
wasn't interested.
I tried to talk him into playing it, but he wasn't
too keen on it, because of the construction of the first movement.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Perhaps this will be the LAST time Tepper tries to rererererelease that
story.
TD
All of this only supports his story. He is quite consistent in his
facts. Why the doubt?
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
King James VI
2005-12-14 23:48:38 UTC
Permalink
what happened in 2004? Perhaps he got laid?
tomdeacon
2005-12-14 22:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
AB
Don't get all excited, Arri.

Tepper just went backstage one time to fawn over the star, and like the
true nerd that he is mouthed some inanities about the Nielsen Violin
Concerto. I suspect that Zukerman took him for exactly what he is and
dealt with him summarily.

You can come to Ottawa and meet him anytime you like. He is very
approachable, in fact.

TD
Raymond Hall
2005-12-14 22:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
AB
Don't get all excited, Arri.
Tepper just went backstage one time to fawn over the star, and like the
true nerd that he is mouthed some inanities about the Nielsen Violin
Concerto. I suspect that Zukerman took him for exactly what he is and
dealt with him summarily.
You can come to Ottawa and meet him anytime you like. He is very
approachable, in fact.
Is he still in love with Jeanne Lamon?

Ray H
Taree
tomdeacon
2005-12-14 23:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by tomdeacon
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
AB
Don't get all excited, Arri.
Tepper just went backstage one time to fawn over the star, and like the
true nerd that he is mouthed some inanities about the Nielsen Violin
Concerto. I suspect that Zukerman took him for exactly what he is and
dealt with him summarily.
You can come to Ottawa and meet him anytime you like. He is very
approachable, in fact.
Is he still in love with Jeanne Lamon?
Ray H
Taree
He married his cellist in the NACO, Amanda Forsythe, and has never been
happier in his life. Or so he says. Forgotten Eugenia and Tuesday
completely.

TD
Sacqueboutier
2005-12-14 23:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
Post by a***@att.net
how or where do you know Zuckerman from?
AB
Don't get all excited, Arri.
Tepper just went backstage one time to fawn over the star, and like the
true nerd that he is mouthed some inanities about the Nielsen Violin
Concerto. I suspect that Zukerman took him for exactly what he is and
dealt with him summarily.
You can come to Ottawa and meet him anytime you like. He is very
approachable, in fact.
TD
That appears to be exactly what Tepper did in Minneapolis/St. Paul
(guessing about the location). If Zuk is
so approachable, why would you doubt that Tepper "approached" him about
the Nielsen?

I suppose you've never gone to the green room to meet an artist?

Sheesh, what a jerk.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
King James VI
2005-12-14 23:52:33 UTC
Permalink
I would hesitate to go to Ottawa. I hear Canada imprisons people who
write non-threatening letters about immigration policy to elected
officials and newspapers.

tomdeacon
2005-12-14 12:13:27 UTC
Permalink
This must mean that I CAN hear after all, Arri.

You know, you can't just be right when you want to be.

That said, we both might be wrong.

TD

P.S. I would stop quoting this "friend in the NYPhil" without providing
his or her name. Nobody knows what kind of musician he is. He could be
one of those cynical "play for the money" guys, for all we know.
Post by a***@att.net
TD is right about Zuckerman. I played the Vieuxtemps VC5 for my friend
in the NY Phil who was really impressed. He was quite surprised that it
was Z. Yes, he has tremendous natural talent, great than Perlman for
sure
AB
Post by tomdeacon
Post by Frank Berger
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
Taking your comments ironically, Frank - hell, how else can one take
your posts? - I would say that you are off the mark.
IF Pinky had bothered to stick to what he can do best and practise he
would have distanced Perlman and most of his colleagues quite easily.
But I think he got bored of the actual time he had to spend with the
instrument.
When he was "on", he was a fabulously gifted violinist. And perhaps he
can still do it today. Just don't know.
TD
a***@att.net
2005-12-14 21:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomdeacon
This must mean that I CAN hear after all, Arri.
You know, you can't just be right when you want to be.
That said, we both might be wrong.
TD
for a split second I tought you MIGHT have a semblance of a musical ear
but after reading that outrageous praise of Hatto in the Prokofiev
sonata all hope is lost.... (forever)!! (Not that I have heard the
recording)

AB
Post by tomdeacon
P.S. I would stop quoting this "friend in the NYPhil" without providing
his or her name. Nobody knows what kind of musician he is. He could be
one of those cynical "play for the money" guys, for all we know.
he is an older Russian, that is as far as I wiil go. If he was able
to have passed the audition for the NY Phil first violin section in
his early 50s he must be good enuf....
I know him through our mutual admiration of Kreisler.
So far as "cynical" goes, NOBODY beats TD

AB
Post by tomdeacon
TD
Vaneyes
2005-12-14 22:05:59 UTC
Permalink
he is an older Russian, that is as far as I wiil go....
That's far enough, being that there's only one in the 1st strings.

Regards
Philip Peters
2005-12-13 14:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@yahoo.co.uk
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended.
LOL ;-)
Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).
mark stratford
With Barenboim and the Orchestra of Paris (1980).

Philip
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-13 04:16:09 UTC
Permalink
I find I have the following:

Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*

The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Joe Vitale
2005-12-13 23:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
Matthew, when you decide to cull some of those not-so-special performances,
let me know:
The Historian
2005-12-14 00:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
Matthew, when you decide to cull some of those not-so-special performances,
Careful, you may get a disc of a Furtwangler violin sonata instead. :-)
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-14 02:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Historian
Post by Joe Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
Matthew, when you decide to cull some of those not-so-special
Careful, you may get a disc of a Furtwangler violin sonata instead. :-)
Or worse, TWO!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-12-14 02:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
Matthew, when you decide to cull some of those not-so-special
The first two I'd happily get rid of, but they're each 2-CD sets in which
the other disc is the reason for ownership.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
William Quentin
2005-12-13 04:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
I have more recordings of Brahms's VC than just about any other piece, I
think. It was the first piece of classical music that I seriously started
to collect (actually, it's about the only piece I have lots of different
recordings of), and it's still just about my favorite piece of music.
Anyway, of all the recordings I have, the one I listen to most often is Zino
Francescatti's recording on Sony, with Leonard Bernstein conducting the NY
Philharmonic. It's on one of those Sony Prince Charles special edition CDs,
and you get a very excellent recording of the Sibelius violin concerto as
well.

-Billy
Frank Berger
2005-12-13 04:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Any recommendations?
I recently received (via an eBay auction) the live Mullova performance
recorded in Tokyo with the touring Berlin Philharmonic and Abbado.
Sometimes recorded-live performances are advertised as "electric" and fall
short, but this one doesn't, as it really does hold your attention. I
believe it's out of print (naturally) but it's well worth seeking out.
Among other newer performances, I would give a nod to another live
recording from the mid-nineties: Maxim Vengerov with Barenboim/Chicago on
Teldec. Perhaps not the warmest of performances, but sometimes just a
little ice from a Siberian violinist with nerves of steel is all it takes
to warm up the stage.
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended. Well, almost.
Joe Vitale
2005-12-13 23:32:13 UTC
Permalink
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended. Well, almost.
I was so proud of my recommendations I posted it twice.
Joe Vitale
2005-12-13 03:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Any recommendations?
I recently received (via an eBay auction) the Mullova performance recorded
live in Tokyo with the touring Berlin Philharmonic and Abbado (on Philips).
Sometimes recorded-live performances are advertised as "electric" and fall
short, but this one doesn't, as it really does hold your attention. I
believe it's out of print (naturally) but it's well worth seeking out.

Among other newer performances, I would give a nod to another live
performance from the mid-nineties: Maxim Vengerov with Barenboim/Chicago on
Teldec. Perhaps not the warmest of performances, but sometimes just a
little ice from a Siberian violinist with nerves of steel is all it takes
to heat up the stage.
Joe Vitale
2005-12-13 03:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Any recommendations?
I recently received (via an eBay auction) the live Mullova performance
recorded in Tokyo with the touring Berlin Philharmonic and Abbado.
Sometimes recorded-live performances are advertised as "electric" and fall
short, but this one doesn't, as it really does hold your attention. I
believe it's out of print (naturally) but it's well worth seeking out.

Among other newer performances, I would give a nod to another live
recording from the mid-nineties: Maxim Vengerov with Barenboim/Chicago on
Teldec. Perhaps not the warmest of performances, but sometimes just a
little ice from a Siberian violinist with nerves of steel is all it takes
to warm up the stage.
p***@hotmail.com
2005-12-13 17:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann
performance available on Music & Arts (CD-1122) with Artur Rodzinski
leading the New York Philharmonic on January 23, 1944. Hubermann was
very much a one of a kind and like it or not there is a point of view,
something that can't be said for many of those mentioned. In 1896 the
fourteen year old Hubermann performed the concerto in the composer's
presence. At the end of the Finale, Brahms embraced the young boy
saying, "You should not have played so beautifully; you are a genius,
my son!"

The EMI DVD with Szeryng is also hard to top (Paray conducting), as are
any of the Heifetz performances in circulation. Szigeti/Harty and also
Ormandy are stellar as are Milstein/Steinberg and most of the available
Kogan and Oistrakh recordings/performances (fifteen or so at last
count) are pretty much the equal of any.

Peter Schenkman
SG
2005-12-14 22:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann
performance available on Music & Arts (CD-1122) with Artur Rodzinski
leading the New York Philharmonic on January 23, 1944. Hubermann was
very much a one of a kind and like it or not there is a point of view,
something that can't be said for many of those mentioned. In 1896 the
fourteen year old Hubermann performed the concerto in the composer's
presence. At the end of the Finale, Brahms embraced the young boy
saying, "You should not have played so beautifully; you are a genius,
my son!"
Even without knowing this distinguished historical trivia (which I do),
I'd possibly find the Huberman version the "best", violin-wise (the
accompaniment is not bad either but not the best imaginable), of all
I've heard. Suffice it to say that I believe Huberman's rendition of
Brahms' Concerto to be five classes above his Beethoven Concerto
versions. I also have an Enescu version which has a lot in common with
Huberman in terms of phrasing, tempo-choices and ardent commitment, but
Enescu was at the time (1950) in worse shape than Huberman in 1944.
Huberman is on best behavior here - inspiration, freedom, intimacy with
the music, the richest imaginable inflections, with no "oddities".

I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
of them stand up close musical scrutiny. I will give an example: the
ample violin quasi-cadenza at the beginning of the 1st movement,
obviously inspired by Beethoven's own violin entrance in the 1st
movement of his concerto (an extended D Major-preparing dominant
cadence in Beethoven's case, a more harmonically developed but similar
in function D Major-preparing cadence in Brahms' concerto). This moment
represents the closest to an *improvisation* one gets in this
magisterial composition. The orchestra intones preparatory,
diminished-sevenths-harmonized, distorted elements from the main, D
Major theme, while the violin jumps all over the four strings in
Gypsy-like embelishments, "irrational" metrical divisions employed.
When the thematic material in the orchestral background sounds awfully
muted and the figuration in the violin part sounds awfully measured and
square, too much "in your face" (even the excellent Oistrakh does that
and I'm picking on him *because* he is so good), all in all *too
secure/predictable*, as opposed to improvisationally "embracing" the
thematic divinations in the orchestra, the quasi-spontaneous sublimity
of the subsequent blossoming of the main theme in the violin ("D F# D
B A" etc.) is half lost. It's not only a matter of violin playing and
it's not only a matter of conducting. The two have to both meet with
each other and with the composer's mind.

Another pet complain: the dramatic minor theme played by violin in
chords. The theme has so many dotted rhythms that it often sounds (even
in Oistrakh's magisterial hands) as a monument to stubbornness and
self-centered generic Brahmsian "drama".
(The tam....... ta-tam....... ta-tam....... ta-tam.......
ta-tam........ element.)


What I like to hear there, through dynamic differentiation and larger
perspective, is the great "aspiring élan" of a theme spread over more
than one octave, a theme endowed with a personality going much beyond
the catchy rhythmical profile. (Many of this specifically "dotted
Brahms themes", in other pieces as well, are having their guts exposed
in interpretation, while having their wings cut, if one may use
mixed[-up] metaphors.)

All the positive effects coming from a perfect conductor-soloist
marriage happen to the highest degree, I believe, in the
Krebbers/Mengelberg version. Krebbers wasn't the greatest violinist who
ever lived (intonation suffers here and there, in the live recording we
are talking about), but he shows himself to be able to collaborate in
an ideally musicianly matter with the much older Mengelberg. (I was
surprised to find the one Menuhin-Furtwangler collaboration I know much
less satisfying than their outstanding Beethoven Concerto.)

Perhaps in less ideal a combination, I'd also recommend though as very
highly satisfactory the Szigeti/Harty version, the Kreisler/Barbirolli
version (it has better orchestral playing, even if the older Leo
Blech's Berlinese orchestra has more of a touchingly unassuming 19th
century tone to it), the already mentioned Huberman version (the violin
playing is out of this world), as well as perhaps Milstein/de Sabata
(less perfect than the cheaply available EMI but more intense and
musically penetrating). Enescu's and Adolf Busch's (only the latter is
available, on Arbiter) would be fascinating for the historical
recordings collector and they're musically valuable but rather flawed
technically.

regards,
SG
P.S. Lena, take a break from your Oistrakh. There's a whole world out
there. ( :
Alan Cooper
2005-12-14 23:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by SG
I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
of them stand up close musical scrutiny.
I agree, actually, and since this is probably my single favorite piece
of music, I have devoted an inordinate amount of time and energy to
collecting and listening to recordings of it. "Satisfactory" is not
the same as "great," nor would *my* definition of "a satisfactory
recording" be "a recording that makes Samir happy." Be that as it
may, I also agree that the historicals hold the edge. If you look at
what I wrote, you'll see that I particularly recommended
Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and Krebbers/Mengelberg. Not so far
from Samir. Now I happen to think that there are a few more recent
artists, including Szeryng, Ferras, Minchev--and, yes, Oistrakh--who
do similar justice to the work in their own ways. Which Oistrakh are
you talking about anyway, Samir? Not O/Konwitschny or O/Kondrashin, I
suspect.

I appreciated Samir's musicological diagnostic, which I think I was
able to follow. Lacking his expertise, I always go straight to the
treacherous ninths in the first movement to get a feel for a
performance. Are they played a tempo with drama and flair, and are
they more or less in tune? Kreisler (both recordings), Szigeti, and
of course Heifetz absolutely nail them, while some very famous
viiolinists fall short, imo, marring recordings that may have other
virtues (Morini and De Vito, for example). I literally wore out my
COLH LP of Kreisler/Barbirolli because I found his energy in the first
movement so enthralling. I still feel that way about it, even though
I have come to prefer Kreisler's earlier recording.

AC
SG
2005-12-14 23:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by SG
I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
of them stand up close musical scrutiny.
I agree, actually, and since this is probably my single favorite piece
of music,
Fascinating.
Post by Alan Cooper
. . . I have devoted an inordinate amount of time and energy to
collecting and listening to recordings of it. "Satisfactory" is not
the same as "great," nor would *my* definition of "a satisfactory
recording" be "a recording that makes Samir happy."
Be that as it
may, I also agree that the historicals hold the edge. If you look at
what I wrote, you'll see that I particularly recommended
Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and Krebbers/Mengelberg. Not so far
from Samir.
True.
Post by Alan Cooper
Now I happen to think that there are a few more recent
artists, including Szeryng, Ferras, Minchev--and, yes, Oistrakh--who
do similar justice to the work in their own ways. Which Oistrakh are
you talking about anyway, Samir? Not O/Konwitschny or O/Kondrashin, I
suspect.
I heard only two Oistrakhs, the Klemperer and the Konwitschny. I
actually believe it's hard to find any (unsubtle) fault with these
excellent performances from a truly major violinist. I just believe
there's more to the music than that, which I tried to suggest through a
couple of examples. Is the Kondrashin-conducted version much different
and how, if at all?

regards,
SG
Chris
2005-12-13 21:19:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Milstein/Monteux
Krebbers/Haitink
(both with the RCO)
Heifetz/Reiner
(CSO)
Shaham/Abbado
(BPO, dvd)

Any good HIP recordings?

Chris
Simon Roberts
2005-12-13 21:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Milstein/Monteux
Krebbers/Haitink
(both with the RCO)
Heifetz/Reiner
(CSO)
Shaham/Abbado
(BPO, dvd)
Any good HIP recordings?
No; nor are there any bad ones (I don't know of any HIP recordings of the piece
at all).

Simon
Gerard
2005-12-13 22:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Chris
Any good HIP recordings?
No; nor are there any bad ones (I don't know of any HIP recordings of
the piece at all).
Can Swensen (Lin) be considered as HIP?
Ronit
2005-12-14 02:04:40 UTC
Permalink
I am partial to Heifetz/Reiner myself. Lovely performance, coupled with
an excellent Heifetz/Munch Beethoven VC on RCA red seal.
King James VI
2005-12-14 10:31:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
Kreisler/Blech. Unsurpassable for the solo playing. Kreisler/Barbirolli
is good too, of course, but not as good.
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