Discussion:
French conductors - Characteristics
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greg lee
2013-05-12 10:22:26 UTC
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Do they have a tendency to rush fast passages?:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
greg lee
2013-05-12 10:24:22 UTC
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA253&dq=%22French+tendency+to+rush+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vm2PUdSOBabwiwKgroHIDw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22French%20tendency%20to%20rush%20fast%22&f=false
arri bachrach
2013-05-12 12:51:09 UTC
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA253&dq=%22French+t...
Ansermet did:-)

AB
greg lee
2013-05-13 00:59:37 UTC
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA253&dq=%22French+t...
Doesn't the following also indicate that even the great Monteux could
be guilty?:

- ...Yet the middle movements seem rushed and breathless, shorn of
their needed repose...

-
http://74.6.116.71/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Yet+the+middle+movements+seem+rushed+and+breathless%2C+shorn+of+their+needed+repose%22&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Yet+the+middle+movements+seem+rushed+and+breathless%2c+shorn+of+their+needed+repose%22&d=4517718172827724&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=2kd6YuXqNe4Ga4E4OHZWOQjGHLioXsXn&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=7Bly2ZkwHvtKMqXot.lA0A--
Herman
2013-05-13 01:36:42 UTC
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Post by greg lee
Doesn't the following also indicate that even the great Monteux could
- ...Yet the middle movements seem rushed and breathless, shorn of
their needed repose...
I indicates someone thought so. Why don't you listen for yourself?
Post by greg lee
-
http://74.6.116.71/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Yet+the+middle+movements+seem+rushed+and+breathless%2C+shorn+of+their+needed+repose%22&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Yet+the+middle+movements+seem+rushed+and+breathless%2c+shorn+of+their+needed+repose%22&d=4517718172827724&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=2kd6YuXqNe4Ga4E4OHZWOQjGHLioXsXn&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=7Bly2ZkwHvtKMqXot.lA0A--
John Wiser
2013-05-12 13:38:23 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
How do you find these things?
I tried googling "stupid remarks about music"
and got some entirely different.

jdw
O
2013-05-12 14:28:03 UTC
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Post by John Wiser
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+Fren
ch)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6
AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f
=false
How do you find these things?
I tried googling "stupid remarks about music"
and got some entirely different.
Those are mine, John.

-Owen
John Wiser
2013-05-12 15:20:30 UTC
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Post by O
Post by John Wiser
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+Fren
ch)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6
AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f
=false
How do you find these things?
I tried googling "stupid remarks about music"
and got some entirely different.
Those are mine, John.
Not all of them.

jdw
O
2013-05-12 18:48:21 UTC
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Post by John Wiser
Post by O
Post by John Wiser
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+F
ren
ch)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC
0Q6
AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%2
2&f
=false
How do you find these things?
I tried googling "stupid remarks about music"
and got some entirely different.
Those are mine, John.
Not all of them.
Nobody's perfect.

-Owen
Herman
2013-05-12 15:55:12 UTC
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Post by John Wiser
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
How do you find these things?
I tried googling "stupid remarks about music"
and got some entirely different.
jdw
you need to google "pompous" too
Matthew B. Tepper
2013-05-12 14:13:13 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+F
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
John Wiser
2013-05-12 15:19:51 UTC
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Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+F
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.

jdw
maready
2013-05-16 20:55:38 UTC
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Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.

I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
greg lee
2013-05-17 10:37:58 UTC
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Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.
I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
The following on Paray says:

- The recorded performances tended to be bracingly fast...

http://books.google.com/books?id=nlDOICBmhbkC&pg=PA978&dq=%22The+recorded+performances+tended+to+be+bracingly+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAiWUaeFDcngiAL26oDQBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20recorded%20performances%20tended%20to%20be%20bracingly%20fast%22&f=false
William Sommerwerck
2013-05-17 13:17:06 UTC
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This is reminiscent of the exchange in "Amadeus" where Mozart proclaims "love"
as a distinctly German virtue.

We think of Germans (of which I am proud to be one) * as having orderly and
logical thought patterns, whereas the French, they are sensuous and emotional.
Yet French music and French conductors are noted for their clarity, balance,
and lack of excess.

* Though it's true, I added that to give someone the opportunity to attack me
in some stupid fashion.
Herman
2013-05-17 13:44:48 UTC
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Post by William Sommerwerck
We think of Germans (of which I am proud to be one) * as having orderly and
logical thought patterns, whereas the French, they are sensuous and emotional.
I don't know who your "we" are (far be it from to presume it's just you) but you have your cliches assbackwards.

In ethnocentric cliches the French are all logorrhea and the Germans either go for metaphysics or war.
g***@gmail.com
2018-02-06 20:10:34 UTC
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Post by greg lee
Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.
I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
- The recorded performances tended to be bracingly fast...
http://books.google.com/books?id=nlDOICBmhbkC&pg=PA978&dq=%22The+recorded+performances+tended+to+be+bracingly+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAiWUaeFDcngiAL26oDQBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20recorded%20performances%20tended%20to%20be%20bracingly%20fast%22&f=false
Concerning Boulez' 1970 Parsifal performance at Bayreuth:

- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...

http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
drh8h
2018-02-07 13:18:04 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by greg lee
Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.
I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
- The recorded performances tended to be bracingly fast...
http://books.google.com/books?id=nlDOICBmhbkC&pg=PA978&dq=%22The+recorded+performances+tended+to+be+bracingly+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAiWUaeFDcngiAL26oDQBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20recorded%20performances%20tended%20to%20be%20bracingly%20fast%22&f=false
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
Post by greg lee
Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.
I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
- The recorded performances tended to be bracingly fast...
http://books.google.com/books?id=nlDOICBmhbkC&pg=PA978&dq=%22The+recorded+performances+tended+to+be+bracingly+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAiWUaeFDcngiAL26oDQBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20recorded%20performances%20tended%20to%20be%20bracingly%20fast%22&f=false
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
"Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury."

As does an Englishman, hardly known for being in a hurry--Sir Adrian Boult.

I rather thought the earlier generation of "French" conductors on record--Inghelbrecht, Pierne, Gaubert, Wolff...tended to the slow. Generalizations are dangerous about any group.

Dennis
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-08 09:37:00 UTC
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Post by drh8h
As does an Englishman, hardly known for being in a hurry--Sir Adrian Boult.
Maybe he wasn't but perhaps he should have been. Boult's Franck symphony has been discussed a few times here, most seem to feel it's too fast and rigid. I imprinted on it so I have the opposite problem of coming to terms with slower and freer performances (that means most of them). His Brahms Serenades have extraordinarily swift slow movements and are pretty breezy elsewhere and in general his slow movements in classical symphonies are among the fastest on record (eg the Eroica, in the context of an otherwise moderately paced performance). If this fact hasn't been much commented upon it is because he usually manages, by careful phrasing, not to sound hurried.

It's true that in his core repertoire (Elgar ...) he got more stately towards the end but even in the late Elgar symphony recordings the slow movements are on the fast side.

A lot of the lesser English composers he recorded (Ireland ...) remained the only recordings for years so there was no comparison, but more recent recordings under conductors like Hickox were usually slower, not to the music's advantage.
Post by drh8h
I rather thought the earlier generation of "French" conductors on record--Inghelbrecht, Pierne, Gaubert, Wolff...tended to the slow. Generalizations are dangerous about any group.
Boult always claimed that his swift, strict tempo Franck symphony was based on hearing Pierne (a pupil of Franck) conduct the work in Liverpool, but since Pierne didn't record it, this has to remain speculation
drh8h
2018-02-08 15:21:58 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by drh8h
As does an Englishman, hardly known for being in a hurry--Sir Adrian Boult.
Maybe he wasn't but perhaps he should have been. Boult's Franck symphony has been discussed a few times here, most seem to feel it's too fast and rigid. I imprinted on it so I have the opposite problem of coming to terms with slower and freer performances (that means most of them). His Brahms Serenades have extraordinarily swift slow movements and are pretty breezy elsewhere and in general his slow movements in classical symphonies are among the fastest on record (eg the Eroica, in the context of an otherwise moderately paced performance). If this fact hasn't been much commented upon it is because he usually manages, by careful phrasing, not to sound hurried.
It's true that in his core repertoire (Elgar ...) he got more stately towards the end but even in the late Elgar symphony recordings the slow movements are on the fast side.
A lot of the lesser English composers he recorded (Ireland ...) remained the only recordings for years so there was no comparison, but more recent recordings under conductors like Hickox were usually slower, not to the music's advantage.
Post by drh8h
I rather thought the earlier generation of "French" conductors on record--Inghelbrecht, Pierne, Gaubert, Wolff...tended to the slow. Generalizations are dangerous about any group.
Boult always claimed that his swift, strict tempo Franck symphony was based on hearing Pierne (a pupil of Franck) conduct the work in Liverpool, but since Pierne didn't record it, this has to remain speculation
I have heard that some musicians of past times thought of longer works as having a basic underlying tempo throughout. The result was often rather moderate "fast" movements and more bracing "slow" paces. One example might be the Bach works Enesco conducted late in life. I am sure someone has studied this.
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-07 19:20:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by greg lee
Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW.
I'll have to do some more extensive listening to the many recordings
made by French conductors to see if they tend to rush the slow parts
as much as they rush the fast parts. What do Amazon Reviewers have to
say about German and Austrian conductors? Do the drag in the fast
parts AND the slow parts? Based on my experience with one conductor
from the former Yugoslavia (von Matacic) I'd have to generalize that
Serbo-Croatian conductors tend to rush both the fast and slow parts
and then drag both the fast and slow parts according to some sort of
unpredictable pattern but that it always works in Bruckner :)
- The recorded performances tended to be bracingly fast...
http://books.google.com/books?id=nlDOICBmhbkC&pg=PA978&dq=%22The+recorded+performances+tended+to+be+bracingly+fast%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAiWUaeFDcngiAL26oDQBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20recorded%20performances%20tended%20to%20be%20bracingly%20fast%22&f=false
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
In response to the above, a poster here recently said that he found that performance 'refreshing'.

If French conductors indeed tend to conduct at faster tempi than others, could it be in an attempt to fulfill an aesthetic goal of providing a performance after which the audience feels mildly stimulated and refreshed'?
greg lee
2013-05-17 23:52:28 UTC
Reply
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Post by maready
Post by John Wiser
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
Don't spout nonsense. Paray rushes EVERYTHING.
jdw
Paray rushes the hell out of the Schumann symphonies, recorded with
the Detroit Symphony for Mercury. An excellent Schumann cycle, BTW...
If you haven't yet read the following article on his recordings, it
may be of interest:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/columns/paray.html
greg lee
2013-05-13 01:26:02 UTC
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Post by Matthew B. Tepper
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
rench)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=
0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20pass
ages%22&f=false
All of the ones named Paul Paray do.
According to the following Amazon customer review:

- The problem I have with Paray's performance is his accelerated tempo
in several pieces.

http://74.6.116.71/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22The+problem+I+have+with+Paray%27s+performance+is+his+accelerated+tempo+in+several+pieces.%22&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22The+problem+I+have+with+Paray%27s+performance+is+his+accelerated+tempo+in+several+pieces.%22&d=4529129922823883&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=TdGqm3FWqDALnCAc2OYeiRYqEJivHqrH&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=czO.VExS1B3nt.jeKjJCQQ--
MELMOTH
2013-05-12 18:13:08 UTC
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Permalink
Ce cher mammifère du nom de greg lee nous susurrait, le dimanche
12/05/2013, dans nos oreilles grandes ouvertes mais un peu sales tout
de même, et dans le message
Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
http://tinyurl.com/buhcl8s
--
Car avec beaucoup de science, il y a beaucoup de chagrin ; et celui qui
accroît sa science accroît sa douleur.
[Ecclésiaste, 1-18]
MELMOTH - souffrant
greg lee
2013-05-13 22:20:33 UTC
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
According to the following:

- French conductors tend to favor brilliant but dry orchestral sound
and avoid too much emotion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=W20JAQAAMAAJ&q=%22French+conductors+tend+to+favor+brilliant+but+dry+orchestral+sound+and+avoid+too+much+emotion.%22&dq=%22French+conductors+tend+to+favor+brilliant+but+dry+orchestral+sound+and+avoid+too+much+emotion.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oGaRUbLnBInkiAKEoIG4BQ&sqi=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA
jrsnfld
2013-05-17 10:48:43 UTC
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Fournet, Plasson, Pretre, Desormiere, Martinon, Tortelier, Lombard,
Inghelbrecht, Pierne...do these names mean "rush" to you?

--Jeff
Alan Cooper
2013-05-17 12:48:54 UTC
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Post by jrsnfld
Fournet, Plasson, Pretre, Desormiere, Martinon, Tortelier, Lombard,
Inghelbrecht, Pierne...do these names mean "rush" to you?
I was just listening to Fournet's splendid recording of the Chausson
Symphony, reissued on Regis and available from BRO (with excellent
couplings) for $3.99. His superb Chabrier is available from a couple of
sources, including http://lesparolesgelees.blogspot.com/2012/11/pages-
dorchestre-demmanuel-chabrier-par.html (only the mp3s; the flacs are
blocked by Mediafire). Paray is excellent in Chabrier as well, of course,
and not rushed.

Fournet also was responsible for what is imo the desert-island Dukas
collection: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000034SS. And so forth....

AC
greg lee
2013-05-17 10:50:39 UTC
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiar...
According to the following:

- ...Focus on inner detail and texture, as French conductors tend to
do.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/08/entertainment/et-phil8
Herman
2013-05-17 11:42:23 UTC
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So you just google for silly generalisations about (in this case) "French onductors".
John Wiser
2013-05-17 20:36:29 UTC
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Post by Herman
So you just google for silly generalisations about (in this case) "French onductors".
What do they onduct and how?

jdw
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-07 19:10:26 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
A poster here recently said that he found Boulez' 1970 Parsifal performance at Bayreuth 'refreshing' in response to criticism that Boulez "...takes many passages much too fast...".

By conducting at faster tempi than others, could French conductors be trying to fulfill as aesthetic goal of providing a performance that is mildly stimulating and 'refreshing'?
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-20 18:52:57 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
From an article on LA MER recordings:

- ...It's the quickest reading on record...

- ...The smooth, natural flow of the French...

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/lamer.html
g***@gmail.com
2018-10-22 04:27:19 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
Concerning Boulez' RING...:

- Boulez’s famous transparency in orchestral texture, his rhythmic precision, lighter tempos, and his preference for woodwinds over strings, all contribute to a Gallic clarity of interpretation, evoking a modernist understanding pointing back to early French wagnerism and to Baudelaire’s aesthetical writings on Wagner in the 1860s.

http://www.wagneropera.net/wagner-recommendations.htm
g***@gmail.com
2018-11-03 09:31:15 UTC
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Post by greg lee
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayT5T59ckzIC&pg=PA252&dq=%22peculiarly+French)+to+rush+fast+passages%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0GyPUbTpNYmRiQLAwoCACQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22peculiarly%20French)%20to%20rush%20fast%20passages%22&f=false
Concerning Monteux's 1942 Scheherazade:

- At under 39 minutes, it's the fastest on record, plunging forward with an irresistible life-force.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics2/rimsky.html

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