Dvorak symphonies and concerti - Belohlavek

[Gerard]

Decca has issued a 6 CD box with alle symphonies and concerti by Dvorak,
conducted by Belohlavek.

I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.

What are the opinions here about this music and about these recordings?

[Oscar]

Post by Gerard
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.

From Classics Today:

<< Big Boxes: Belohlávek's Dull Dvorák, Again
Review by: David Hurwitz

Artistic quality 7
Sound quality 8

Jirí Belohlávek must be a nice guy, because he invariably turns in "nice" performances: pleasant, unadventurous, faithful to the score-but insightful and exciting? Not so much. The utter pointlessness of this release is underlined by the fact that Belohlávek recorded symphonies Nos. 5-8 with this same Czech Philharmonic for Chandos, and no one much cared. As you can hear in comparing the first-movement climax of the Seventh Symphony, those recordings were, on the whole, better than these, even if they were nothing particularly special. They were at least relatively more impulsive, with better textural differentiation and bolder phrasing and accentuation.

Of course, the Czech Philharmonic can play this music in their sleep, and at times it seems that they are doing just that. These recordings were in fact licensed to Decca by the orchestra (the symphonies at least), and since there isn't anyone left at the major labels who knows much about Artists and Repertoire management, they have in effect become distributors, sticking their "brand", for what it's worth, on pre-packaged projects and then arranging for their general dispersal (I hesitate to use the words "marketing" and "sales"). So the fundamental question of whether or not Belohlávek deserves another shot at this music never arises. Anyway, let's look at some of the specifics.

The First Symphony is one of the best things in the set (alongside the Sixth): very fleet tempos, especially in the first two movements, and a refreshing lightness of texture. The same is true of the scherzo of the Second, but the opening movement and finale are sluggish and slackly phrased. So it goes with the finale of the Third, an undistinguished Fourth, and a surprisingly pale account of the Fifth. Compared to classic versions by Rowicki, Kubelik, Kertesz, or even Neumann with this same orchestra, Belohlávek comes across as a pale imitation. The last three symphonies have received too many great recordings, from the likes of Szell, Dohnányi, Harnoncourt, Colin Davis, Mackerras, and others for these routine interpretations to hold much appeal. Almost everything sounds underplayed. It's really that simple.

The concertos, though, fare somewhat better. Garrick Ohlsson plays the original version of the Piano Concerto with style and sensitivity, and he's only slightly let down by Belohlávek's timidity in the outer movements. Frank Peter Zimmermann does a lovely job in the Violin Concerto, and for whatever reason the accompaniments here sound distinctly more alert. So too with the Cello Concerto (available separately): Alisa Weilerstein plays with vigor and a wide dynamic range. The second subject of the first movement is memorably rapt, the finale's elegiac coda poetic but flowing and not too sentimental. She is, however, far too closely miked: her entrance in the first movement will make you jump out of your seat.

Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly, and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.

Recording Details:
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)

Decca - 478 6757 CD >>

[Oscar]

Post by Oscar
These recordings were in fact licensed to Decca by the orchestra (the symphonies at least), and
since there isn't anyone left at the major labels who knows much about Artists and Repertoire
management, they have in effect become distributors...

Funny, the Managing Director of Decca Classics is Paul Moseley http://tinyurl.com/p9f4qfg who also co-founded Onyx Classics. I think he knows a thing or two about "real" A&R. He's not just some packaging guy.

[Oscar]

Funny, the Managing Director of Decca Classics is Paul Moseley who also co-founded Onyx Classics.
I think he knows a thing or two about "real" A&R.

And, of course, before Onyx Moseley was a senior executive at Decca when it was still The Decca Record Company Limited, based in West Hampstead.

[Bozo]

I think he knows a thing or two about "real" A&R. He's not just some >packaging >guy.

From the Onyx website :


" First, we have launched our own YouTube channel featuring our artists talking about their recordings. The ONYX YouTube channel will be updated regularly with new video and audio material. Please go to our YouTube channel, sit back, and enjoy James Ehnes and Kirill Karabits talking about Britten's Violin Concerto, and watch the amazing Borusan Istanbul Philharmonic Orchestra and conductor Sascha Goetzel in rehearsal for their new recording.

Secondly, we have improved the way that information on concert and recital dates are made available. Simply click on 'Artists' and select the artist you are interested in, then you will find a link to their website or their management website where you will find up to the minute concert and venue information and much more. For information on publications and broadcasters, PR companies that work with ONYX artists, please visit 'Links'. Please keep an eye on the 'Coming Soon' section for information on our exciting new releases.

Finally, we have added 'Buy Buttons' for all our recordings, so you can select which mail order company you purchase from. You can still buy directly from ONYX, and purchase downloads directly from the site as before...


ONYX is a quality label featuring world-renowned artists. They like the freedom and ownership ONYX gives them to express themselves creatively. ONYX recordings can be purchased at all good retailers and e-tailers worldwide, or direct here, where you can sample before you buy, order CDs and download albums or individual tracks, at GREAT prices and in many different currencies.


Home to legendary artists: VIKTORIA MULLOVA, AUGUSTIN DUMAY, MARIA JOAO PIRES, ANNE SCHWANEWILMS, SUSAN GRAHAM, PASCAL ROGE, SIMON TRYPCESKI, NIKOLAI DEMIDENKO, JAMES EHNES, LEONARD ELSCHENBROICH, JOSEPH MOOG, FLORIAN BOESCH, HENK NEVEN, CHEN REISS, BOURNEMOUTH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, ROYAL LIVERPOOL PHILHARMONIC, BORUSAN ISTANBUL PHILHARMONIC, DANJULO ISHIZAKA, SHAI WOSNER, KUSS QUARTET and more! "

http://www.onyxclassics.com/

[Bob Harper]

Post by Gerard
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section;
the opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.

<< Big Boxes: Belohlávek's Dull Dvorák, Again Review by: David
Hurwitz
Artistic quality 7 Sound quality 8
Jirí Belohlávek must be a nice guy, because he invariably turns in
"nice" performances: pleasant, unadventurous, faithful to the
score-but insightful and exciting? Not so much. The utter
pointlessness of this release is underlined by the fact that
Belohlávek recorded symphonies Nos. 5-8 with this same Czech
Philharmonic for Chandos, and no one much cared. As you can hear in
comparing the first-movement climax of the Seventh Symphony, those
recordings were, on the whole, better than these, even if they were
nothing particularly special. They were at least relatively more
impulsive, with better textural differentiation and bolder phrasing
and accentuation.
Of course, the Czech Philharmonic can play this music in their sleep,
and at times it seems that they are doing just that. These recordings
were in fact licensed to Decca by the orchestra (the symphonies at
least), and since there isn't anyone left at the major labels who
knows much about Artists and Repertoire management, they have in
effect become distributors, sticking their "brand", for what it's
worth, on pre-packaged projects and then arranging for their general
dispersal (I hesitate to use the words "marketing" and "sales"). So
the fundamental question of whether or not Belohlávek deserves
another shot at this music never arises. Anyway, let's look at some
of the specifics.
The First Symphony is one of the best things in the set (alongside
the Sixth): very fleet tempos, especially in the first two movements,
and a refreshing lightness of texture. The same is true of the
scherzo of the Second, but the opening movement and finale are
sluggish and slackly phrased. So it goes with the finale of the
Third, an undistinguished Fourth, and a surprisingly pale account of
the Fifth. Compared to classic versions by Rowicki, Kubelik, Kertesz,
or even Neumann with this same orchestra, Belohlávek comes across as
a pale imitation. The last three symphonies have received too many
great recordings, from the likes of Szell, Dohnányi, Harnoncourt,
Colin Davis, Mackerras, and others for these routine interpretations
to hold much appeal. Almost everything sounds underplayed. It's
really that simple.
The concertos, though, fare somewhat better. Garrick Ohlsson plays
the original version of the Piano Concerto with style and
sensitivity, and he's only slightly let down by Belohlávek's timidity
in the outer movements. Frank Peter Zimmermann does a lovely job in
the Violin Concerto, and for whatever reason the accompaniments here
sound distinctly more alert. So too with the Cello Concerto
(available separately): Alisa Weilerstein plays with vigor and a wide
dynamic range. The second subject of the first movement is memorably
rapt, the finale's elegiac coda poetic but flowing and not too
sentimental. She is, however, far too closely miked: her entrance in
the first movement will make you jump out of your seat.
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus,
like the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through
cleanly, and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent
balances below mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets
going at full tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is
just second rate.
Recording Details: Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki
(Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>

Well, at least he didn't complain that the tam-tam was not given due
prominence :)

Bob Harper (who, full disclosure) knows none of the recordings in question)

[Gerard]

Post by Gerard
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.

From Classics Today:

<< Big Boxes: Belohlávek's Dull Dvorák, Again
Review by: David Hurwitz

Artistic quality 7
Sound quality 8

Jirí Belohlávek must be a nice guy, because he invariably turns in "nice"
performances: pleasant, unadventurous, faithful to the score-but insightful
and exciting? Not so much. The utter pointlessness of this release is
underlined by the fact that Belohlávek recorded symphonies Nos. 5-8 with
this same Czech Philharmonic for Chandos, and no one much cared. As you can
hear in comparing the first-movement climax of the Seventh Symphony, those
recordings were, on the whole, better than these, even if they were nothing
particularly special. They were at least relatively more impulsive, with
better textural differentiation and bolder phrasing and accentuation.

Of course, the Czech Philharmonic can play this music in their sleep, and at
times it seems that they are doing just that. These recordings were in fact
licensed to Decca by the orchestra (the symphonies at least), and since
there isn't anyone left at the major labels who knows much about Artists and
Repertoire management, they have in effect become distributors, sticking
their "brand", for what it's worth, on pre-packaged projects and then
arranging for their general dispersal (I hesitate to use the words
"marketing" and "sales"). So the fundamental question of whether or not
Belohlávek deserves another shot at this music never arises. Anyway, let's
look at some of the specifics.

The First Symphony is one of the best things in the set (alongside the
Sixth): very fleet tempos, especially in the first two movements, and a
refreshing lightness of texture. The same is true of the scherzo of the
Second, but the opening movement and finale are sluggish and slackly
phrased. So it goes with the finale of the Third, an undistinguished Fourth,
and a surprisingly pale account of the Fifth. Compared to classic versions
by Rowicki, Kubelik, Kertesz, or even Neumann with this same orchestra,
Belohlávek comes across as a pale imitation. The last three symphonies have
received too many great recordings, from the likes of Szell, Dohnányi,
Harnoncourt, Colin Davis, Mackerras, and others for these routine
interpretations to hold much appeal. Almost everything sounds underplayed.
It's really that simple.

The concertos, though, fare somewhat better. Garrick Ohlsson plays the
original version of the Piano Concerto with style and sensitivity, and he's
only slightly let down by Belohlávek's timidity in the outer movements.
Frank Peter Zimmermann does a lovely job in the Violin Concerto, and for
whatever reason the accompaniments here sound distinctly more alert. So too
with the Cello Concerto (available separately): Alisa Weilerstein plays with
vigor and a wide dynamic range. The second subject of the first movement is
memorably rapt, the finale's elegiac coda poetic but flowing and not too
sentimental. She is, however, far too closely miked: her entrance in the
first movement will make you jump out of your seat.

Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may not
track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like the
interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly, and
Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full tilt,
we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.

Recording Details:
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)

Decca - 478 6757 CD >>

=================

Thanks for posting this.

His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.
Hurwitz wrote about his Dvorak sets before:

""Even if you have the versions just mentioned, these performances really do
belong in every serious collection.""
(about the first set)

""A must-have if you love Dvorák.""
""there is no finer Dvorák cycle than this one.""
""Supraphon’s first-rate sonics also distinguish this, the most consistently
excellent of all complete Dvorák symphony cycles, from the rest of the
pack.""

(about the digital set)

[Ray Hall]

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.

On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Gerard]

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.

On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================

I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.

I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.

I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

[Kerrison]

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century ago" ...

http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

[Gerard]

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very
attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is "the
finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century ago" ...

http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

===================

Thanks.
I was keeping an eye on that cycle.
But here too there's no real consensus at the side of the 'esteemed"
critics.
See:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/serebriers-curiously-flat-dvorak-7th/

[Frank Berger]

Post by Kerrison

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the
good-but-not-great category.

[Christopher Webber]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by Kerrison
According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is
"the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century
ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the
good-but-not-great category.

Personally I would trust Robert Matthew-Walker with my (musical) life,
and his endorsement means much. He has standards. And he doesn't mince
his words. Doubtless if a more fashionable conductor than Serebrier was
making this cycle the general body of reviews would have been hyper-glowing.

My own experience, is that José Serebrier is a foolishly under-rated
figure in the recording world: I'm tempted to explore his Dvorak.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Frank Berger

Post by Kerrison
According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is
"the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century
ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the
good-but-not-great category.

Personally I would trust Robert Matthew-Walker with my (musical) life,
and his endorsement means much. He has standards. And he doesn't mince
his words. Doubtless if a more fashionable conductor than Serebrier was
making this cycle the general body of reviews would have been
hyper-glowing.
My own experience, is that José Serebrier is a foolishly under-rated
figure in the recording world: I'm tempted to explore his Dvorak.

Given your trust for Matthew-Walker and your admiration for Serebrier,
why are you only "tempted?"

[Christopher Webber]

Post by Frank Berger
Given your trust for Matthew-Walker and your admiration for Serebrier,
why are you only "tempted?"

Because I haven't got any money.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Frank Berger
Given your trust for Matthew-Walker and your admiration for Serebrier,
why are you only "tempted?"

Because I haven't got any money.

Good but sad answer.

[Kerrison]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by Kerrison

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the
good-but-not-great category.

Well, I'm not an expert in these matters, like Professor Hurwitz, but even over my computer speakers this Serebrier No. 7 'Scherzo' doesn't sound that bad! ...

[Frank Berger]

Post by Kerrison

Post by Frank Berger

Post by Kerrison

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and
they may not track on older players. The sonics, generally,
are soft-focus, like the interpretations. Those wonderful
Czech winds cut through cleanly, and Belohlávek deserves
credit for securing transparent balances below mezzo-forte.
If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full tilt,
we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Recording Details: Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki
(Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears.
If I was to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too
soft edged and have avoided him so far. =====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set.
It's uneven. But 7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft
edged indeed. I do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him
(Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a "mixed" set with
recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and they
are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle
is "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a
century ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the

Post by Kerrison

Post by Frank Berger
good-but-not-great category.

Well, I'm not an expert in these matters, like Professor Hurwitz, but
even over my computer speakers this Serebrier No. 7 'Scherzo' doesn't
sound that bad! ...
http://youtu.be/lAvQJB6P9sg

Isn't "not that bad" awfully similar to (or even worse than)
"good-but-not-great?"

It's true that I lifted the "good-but-not-great" phrase from Hurwitz,
but almost all the other reviews I read were similar.

Personally, aside from historic great Dvorak recordings, I'm happy with
Macal (both CPO and Milwaukee).

[Gerard]

Post by Frank Berger

Post by Kerrison

Post by Ray Hall

Post by Oscar
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.

I have the Neumann set and find them excellent to these ears. If I was
to spring for another set it would be Rowicki.
On several samplings, I have also found Belohlavek much too soft edged
and have avoided him so far.
=====================
I have 5 symphonies (#4 - #8) from the digital Neumann set. It's uneven. But
7 and 8 are excellent.
I'm "afraid" that the new Belohlavek recordings are too soft edged indeed. I
do have a few Dvorak symphonies by him (Supraphon and Brilliant Classics - a
"mixed" set with recordings by Neeme Järvi, Belohlavek and Jansons), and
they are somewhere between good and not-outstanding.
I think I'll pass on the new set. (But the price of it is very attractive.)

According to this review, Jose Serebrier's on-going Dvorak cycle is "the
finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a century ago" ...
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=12204

Yet most other reviews of this series seem to put it in the
good-but-not-great category.

Well, I'm not an expert in these matters, like Professor Hurwitz, but even
over my computer speakers this Serebrier No. 7 'Scherzo' doesn't sound that
bad! ...

http://youtu.be/lAvQJB6P9sg

=============================

Over my computer speakers it also does not sound bad.
But "apart from the sound": it does not sound like a must-have to me.

Also:

Allegretto grazioso from symphony 8:

Furiant from symphony 6:

It's all worth a listen, of course.

Probably "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a
century ago" is still Suitner's.

[Bob Harper]

(snip)
Probably "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a
century ago" is still Suitner's.

A great set, and ridiculously cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphonies-Antonin/dp/B0036ULAXW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1430754096&sr=1-1&keywords=suitner+dvorak

Bob Harper

[Gerard]

(snip)
Probably "the finest since the LSO/Kertész Decca recordings of half a
century ago" is still Suitner's.

A great set, and ridiculously cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphonies-Antonin/dp/B0036ULAXW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1430754096&sr=1-1&keywords=suitner+dvorak

=====================

Same recordings with the symphonic poems (with Kuchar) and Slavonic Dances
added:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Symphonic/dp/B00BX2JMXK/

(I've seen this in a store for 10 Euros, new)

[Christopher Webber]

Post by Gerard
Same recordings with the symphonic poems (with Kuchar) and Slavonic
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Symphonic/dp/B00BX2JMXK/

I didn't understand the hot reviews of Suitner's set when it emerged on
CD. I was disappointed by them. They struck me as perfectly decent,
middle-of-the-road readings in the Austro-German tradition (which misses
something distinctively light and sweet out of the equation) but neither
sufficiently well played nor arresting enough interpretatively to merit
staying in my collection.

After Harnoncourt Suitner sounds solid, after Kubelik he sounds lacking
in dynamism. He doesn't 'lift them off the page' like Kertesz or Pesek
did at their best, let alone your Ancerls or Talichs. Not for me,
anyway. And yes, I'd much prefer to have either Neumann or Belohlavek by
my side as complete cycles: they find a "golden thread" of development
which climaxes in the 9th (as it should) rather than in the 6th and 7th,
which is where Suitner is at his structural best.

What am I missing?

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Gerard
Same recordings with the symphonic poems (with Kuchar) and Slavonic
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Symphonic/dp/B00BX2JMXK/

I didn't understand the hot reviews of Suitner's set when it emerged on
CD. I was disappointed by them. They struck me as perfectly decent,
middle-of-the-road readings in the Austro-German tradition (which misses
something distinctively light and sweet out of the equation) but neither
sufficiently well played nor arresting enough interpretatively to merit
staying in my collection.
After Harnoncourt Suitner sounds solid, after Kubelik he sounds lacking
in dynamism. He doesn't 'lift them off the page' like Kertesz or Pesek
did at their best, let alone your Ancerls or Talichs. Not for me,
anyway. And yes, I'd much prefer to have either Neumann or Belohlavek by
my side as complete cycles: they find a "golden thread" of development
which climaxes in the 9th (as it should) rather than in the 6th and 7th,
which is where Suitner is at his structural best.
What am I missing?

Nothing, afaic. "Perfectly decent, middle-of-the-road" strikes me as spot on. And I think Belohlavek is getting needlessly bad press here also, granting that I haven't heard the newest recordings under discussion. There is a live BBC Dvorak 6th from 1999 c/w a Novak tone poem that I like very much, and the Queyras/Belohlavek recording of the Cello Concerto is first rate in every way, imo. When we were living in Cincinnati, I was fortunate to attend a Cincinnati Symphony concert at which Belohlavek conducted a stunning Martinu 6th (not to mention the Schumann PC w/Moravec). I never heard the orchestra play better than they did that evening. B's Martinu symphony cycle is the best available in every respect, I think, although it may be surpassed in performances of individual symphonies.

AC

[MiNe109]

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 2:00:50 PM UTC-4, Christopher Webber

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Gerard
Same recordings with the symphonic poems (with Kuchar) and
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Symphonic/dp/B00BX2JMXK/

I didn't understand the hot reviews of Suitner's set when it emerged
on CD. I was disappointed by them. They struck me as perfectly
decent, middle-of-the-road readings in the Austro-German tradition
(which misses something distinctively light and sweet out of the
equation) but neither sufficiently well played nor arresting enough
interpretatively to merit staying in my collection.
After Harnoncourt Suitner sounds solid, after Kubelik he sounds
lacking in dynamism. He doesn't 'lift them off the page' like
Kertesz or Pesek did at their best, let alone your Ancerls or
Talichs. Not for me, anyway. And yes, I'd much prefer to have
either Neumann or Belohlavek by my side as complete cycles: they
find a "golden thread" of development which climaxes in the 9th (as
it should) rather than in the 6th and 7th, which is where Suitner
is at his structural best.
What am I missing?

Nothing, afaic. "Perfectly decent, middle-of-the-road" strikes me as
spot on...

<snip>

I was a little dismayed to read this just after ordering the box set
while enjoying No. 6 on Spotify but I take consolation that the complete
symphonies are only a little more on Amazon than the single cd of No. 6.

I'd really like to find those Dohnanyi/Cleveland discs lost somewhere in
the garage.

Stephen

[Gerard]

wrote in message news:aad7d44c-021f-462a-ba53-***@googlegroups.com...


Nothing, afaic. "Perfectly decent, middle-of-the-road" strikes me as spot
on. And I think Belohlavek is getting needlessly bad press here also,
granting that I haven't heard the newest recordings under discussion. There
is a live BBC Dvorak 6th from 1999 c/w a Novak tone poem that I like very
much, and the Queyras/Belohlavek recording of the Cello Concerto is first
rate in every way, imo. When we were living in Cincinnati, I was fortunate
to attend a Cincinnati Symphony concert at which Belohlavek conducted a
stunning Martinu 6th (not to mention the Schumann PC w/Moravec). I never
heard the orchestra play better than they did that evening. B's Martinu
symphony cycle is the best available in every respect, I think, although it
may be surpassed in performances of individual symphonies.

==============

That's quite possible. Live concerts are different "animals".
So are other recordings (Dvorak cello concerto, Martinu).

[Ray Hall]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Gerard
Same recordings with the symphonic poems (with Kuchar) and Slavonic
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Symphonic/dp/B00BX2JMXK/

I didn't understand the hot reviews of Suitner's set when it emerged on
CD. I was disappointed by them. They struck me as perfectly decent,
middle-of-the-road readings in the Austro-German tradition (which misses
something distinctively light and sweet out of the equation) but neither
sufficiently well played nor arresting enough interpretatively to merit
staying in my collection.
After Harnoncourt Suitner sounds solid, after Kubelik he sounds lacking
in dynamism. He doesn't 'lift them off the page' like Kertesz or Pesek
did at their best, let alone your Ancerls or Talichs. Not for me,
anyway. And yes, I'd much prefer to have either Neumann or Belohlavek by
my side as complete cycles: they find a "golden thread" of development
which climaxes in the 9th (as it should) rather than in the 6th and 7th,
which is where Suitner is at his structural best.
What am I missing?

Rowicki. A set I could spring for from many reviews I have read.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Gerard]

"Ray Hall" wrote in message news:mi8skr$35g$***@speranza.aioe.org...


Rowicki. A set I could spring for from many reviews I have read.

=================

A few cycles are not mentioned (or discussed) yet.
Like: Valek, Järvi, Pesek, Anguelov.

Mentioned Hurwitz was very enthousiastic about Anguelov.

""These are superb performances. Indeed, as a cycle, this set belongs right
up there with the very best (Rowicki, Kubelik), and may be the most
consistently well-realized of them all. ""

"" The Eighth falls squarely in the Czech tradition of Talich and Neumann
(that is, with a steady tempo in the finale), and the “New World” seldom has
been more powerfully shaped, with a gorgeous Largo and a finale that
represents virtually the last word in cogency–and the big climax just before
the coda is spectacular, with the timpani finally getting their due. So from
an interpretive point of view, and taken has a whole, Dvorák fans will need
to hear this. ""

That is very different from his view on Belohlavek's cycle.

(And Kertesz is nowhere in his review.)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11454/

[Bob Harper]

Post by Oscar

Post by Gerard
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.

<< Big Boxes: Belohlávek's Dull Dvorák, Again
Review by: David Hurwitz
Artistic quality 7
Sound quality 8
Jirí Belohlávek must be a nice guy, because he invariably turns in
"nice" performances: pleasant, unadventurous, faithful to the score-but
insightful and exciting? Not so much. The utter pointlessness of this
release is underlined by the fact that Belohlávek recorded symphonies
Nos. 5-8 with this same Czech Philharmonic for Chandos, and no one much
cared. As you can hear in comparing the first-movement climax of the
Seventh Symphony, those recordings were, on the whole, better than
these, even if they were nothing particularly special. They were at
least relatively more impulsive, with better textural differentiation
and bolder phrasing and accentuation.
Of course, the Czech Philharmonic can play this music in their sleep,
and at times it seems that they are doing just that. These recordings
were in fact licensed to Decca by the orchestra (the symphonies at
least), and since there isn't anyone left at the major labels who knows
much about Artists and Repertoire management, they have in effect become
distributors, sticking their "brand", for what it's worth, on
pre-packaged projects and then arranging for their general dispersal (I
hesitate to use the words "marketing" and "sales"). So the fundamental
question of whether or not Belohlávek deserves another shot at this
music never arises. Anyway, let's look at some of the specifics.
The First Symphony is one of the best things in the set (alongside the
Sixth): very fleet tempos, especially in the first two movements, and a
refreshing lightness of texture. The same is true of the scherzo of the
Second, but the opening movement and finale are sluggish and slackly
phrased. So it goes with the finale of the Third, an undistinguished
Fourth, and a surprisingly pale account of the Fifth. Compared to
classic versions by Rowicki, Kubelik, Kertesz, or even Neumann with this
same orchestra, Belohlávek comes across as a pale imitation. The last
three symphonies have received too many great recordings, from the likes
of Szell, Dohnányi, Harnoncourt, Colin Davis, Mackerras, and others for
these routine interpretations to hold much appeal. Almost everything
sounds underplayed. It's really that simple.
The concertos, though, fare somewhat better. Garrick Ohlsson plays the
original version of the Piano Concerto with style and sensitivity, and
he's only slightly let down by Belohlávek's timidity in the outer
movements. Frank Peter Zimmermann does a lovely job in the Violin
Concerto, and for whatever reason the accompaniments here sound
distinctly more alert. So too with the Cello Concerto (available
separately): Alisa Weilerstein plays with vigor and a wide dynamic
range. The second subject of the first movement is memorably rapt, the
finale's elegiac coda poetic but flowing and not too sentimental. She
is, however, far too closely miked: her entrance in the first movement
will make you jump out of your seat.
Some of these discs are amazingly long: 84-plus minutes, and they may
not track on older players. The sonics, generally, are soft-focus, like
the interpretations. Those wonderful Czech winds cut through cleanly,
and Belohlávek deserves credit for securing transparent balances below
mezzo-forte. If only he did the same when Dvorák gets going at full
tilt, we'd really have something. As it stands, this is just second rate.
Reference Recording: Symphonies: Rowicki (Philips)
Decca - 478 6757 CD >>
=================
Thanks for posting this.
His writing ""or even Neumann"" is remarkable.
""Even if you have the versions just mentioned, these performances
really do belong in every serious collection.""
(about the first set)
""A must-have if you love Dvorák.""
""there is no finer Dvorák cycle than this one.""
""Supraphon’s first-rate sonics also distinguish this, the most
consistently excellent of all complete Dvorák symphony cycles, from the
rest of the pack.""
(about the digital set)

That is indeed interesting. I owned the Neumann digital set for a while,
but my reaction was of the 'even Neumann' sort, and I let it go,
preferring Rowicki and Suitner for complete sets, not to mention any
number of individual performances of 5-9. I suppose we must give Mr.
Hurwitz the right we all have--to change our minds.

Bob Harper

[Herman]

Post by Gerard
Decca has issued a 6 CD box with alle symphonies and concerti by Dvorak,
conducted by Belohlavek.
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.
What are the opinions here about this music and about these recordings?

Maybe I'll listen to some Belohlavek tonight. His Brahms, for instance.

The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

[Christopher Webber]

Post by Herman
The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

Quite. I find it baffling too.

[John Wiser]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Herman
The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

Quite. I find it baffling too.

I think a large part of the bad press problem are arises from
certain reviewers being given wholly undeserved credibility,
and some noisy an repetitious rcmr opinionators also.
I am not qualified to speak of Belohlavek's Dvorak; it's music
for which I have a very low tolerance.

jdw

[Oscar]

I am not qualified to speak of Belohlavek's Dvorak; it's music for which I have a very low tolerance.

Low tolerance even for the 1893-95-era Stars & Stripes-touring, Negro spiritual-hummin' Big D? All the while writing the New World Symphony, the Cello Concerto and the 'American' String Quartet in F, Op.96?

Pick one:

OSCAR: Have you left no sense of decency, Sir, at long last?
TD: Get thee to a nunnery!
herman: Yeah, it's only some of the greatest music ever written in Merica.
BOZO: <hiccup> Even Dvorak liked Iowa. The food, expecially http://tinyurl.com/pk4uqt8
JDW (you but not you): Methinks yr glib / Or scabrously dim / To have less of an idear than him. Toot-toot!

[Gerard]

Post by Christopher Webber

Post by Herman
The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

Quite. I find it baffling too.

In 2015 there was a thread (hm .. this thread actually) about the new Dvorak cycle by Belohlavek. Opinions here were close to the opinion by Hurwitz ('sluggish'). (Opinions on Amazon are much more enthousiastic.)
Nevertheless I've ordered this set yet, partially because it is so cheap these days (same price as one single new CD).
In the 2015 discussion some (also some who never heard the recordings by Belohlavek) had a strong preference for Neumann's 2nd and digital Dvorak cycle. I have a few recordings of this cycle, and I decided to compare shortly two symphonies, starting with symphony 6.
Surprise: hardly any difference between the recording by Neumann and Belohlavek. Both splendid - or both 'dull', whatever you name it ;-)
And so it goes with symphony 8. Hardly any difference; both splendid and equally "exciting"; same tempi. The sound is a little different: Belohlavek's recordings sound a little more diffuse, a little 'warmer', imo a little more agreeable.
Thus far I see not much reason to prefer one of these conductors to the other one.
Surprise? Both conducted the same orchestra: the Czech Philharmonic (who can play this music in their sleep, according to Hurwitz).
Could it be true that this orchestra plays this music consistently very good independently of the conductor?
Ancerl is a class apart, but he did not record a cycle.

[Bob Harper]

On 3/6/19 8:22 PM, Gerard wrote:
(snip)

Post by Gerard
Ancerl is a class apart, but he did not record a cycle.

More's the pity! I'd settle for recordings of 7 and 8 of the quality of
the Supraphons.

Bob Harper

[m***@gmail.com]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Gerard]

Post by m***@gmail.com
I'm going to disagree, but this is a matter of subtlety. It is simply a fact that the orchestra sounds more slavic in the older recordings. In the new ones, attacks are gentler, and notes are smoothed in ways that are alien to the cluck-cluck of the Czech phil in prime form where notes are shorter and sharper. There's a whole world of expression to the Czech phil that is theirs alone when they play this way. (almost- check out Keilberth's Bamberg Slavonic Dances for some neighborly competition). Listen closely and there is a precision and play to the orchestra under Neumann that is absent from Belo's recordings. The balances are often delightful, as well, with the winds carrying their own against the strings. The big conception is very similar, but note for note, Belo's orchestra sounds bland, mushy and westernized. And if you love what you hear in recordings by Ancerl, Neumann, or anyone with the orchestra from any time through the mid 80's, then these recordings are unnecessary.
And Belo's recordings of the Slavonic Dances are worse. Boring and bland, a crime against the history of the orchestra and composer. Even the thoroughly western Dorati/RPO recordings have more verve.
For comparison, Serebrier gets Bournemouth to exhibit a level of control and balance that is very close to the mark if you want something modern.

Thanks for your interesting and informative reply.
I have tried to download the zip files on mediafire.com. But in both cases I got different messages about Trojan horses and viruses - one of them looked like a serious warning from Microsft 'himself'.
Anyhow, I did not succeed downloading these files. And I don't like to try again.
Comparing the Slavonci Dances by Kosler with the recording by Belohlavek is impossible to me, because I don't have the Belohlavek recording.
OTOH I have some of Kosler's recordings of the symphonies (1-7, as issued on Brilliant Classics). But those are with a completely different orchestra, Slovac Philharmonic Orchestra.

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Gerard
Thanks for your interesting and informative reply.
I have tried to download the zip files on mediafire.com. But in both cases I got different messages about Trojan horses and viruses - one of them looked like a serious warning from Microsft 'himself'.
Anyhow, I did not succeed downloading these files. And I don't like to try again.

Well, why do I bother- it turns out the Kosler Slavonic Dances had life on LP and CD. And they are even on Spotify. Are they the same as my Pioneer laserdisc? Yes, timings are the same, nearly to the second. I just ordered them for myself.

Listening to Spotify, I can at least say that my transfers are quite good and there isn't a lot of difference between the two sources for the 1979 recording. I'd bet that your warning was just an automatic response given by your anti-virus software for ZIP files. The files have been tested and distributed elsewhere; they are safe. But if you want to avoid them, there are alternatives.

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
Thanks for your interesting and informative reply.
I have tried to download the zip files on mediafire.com. But in both cases I got different messages about Trojan horses and viruses - one of them looked like a serious warning from Microsft 'himself'.
Anyhow, I did not succeed downloading these files. And I don't like to try again.

Well, why do I bother- it turns out the Kosler Slavonic Dances had life on LP and CD. And they are even on Spotify. Are they the same as my Pioneer laserdisc? Yes, timings are the same, nearly to the second. I just ordered them for myself.

<https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.550143> ?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Gerard]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
Thanks for your interesting and informative reply.
I have tried to download the zip files on mediafire.com. But in both cases I got different messages about Trojan horses and viruses - one of them looked like a serious warning from Microsft 'himself'.
Anyhow, I did not succeed downloading these files. And I don't like to try again.

Well, why do I bother- it turns out the Kosler Slavonic Dances had life on LP and CD. And they are even on Spotify. Are they the same as my Pioneer laserdisc? Yes, timings are the same, nearly to the second. I just ordered them for myself.
Listening to Spotify, I can at least say that my transfers are quite good and there isn't a lot of difference between the two sources for the 1979 recording. I'd bet that your warning was just an automatic response given by your anti-virus software for ZIP files. The files have been tested and distributed elsewhere; they are safe. But if you want to avoid them, there are alternatives.

The warnings were not about the zip files, but about the website, Trojan horses, ransomware. The warnings could be fake. They were not generated by my anti virus software.

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Gerard
The warnings were not about the zip files, but about the website, Trojan horses, ransomware. The warnings could be fake. They were not generated by my anti virus software.

Weird. I get no such warnings when accessing the site (not logged in, of course) using Firefox or Chrome. From the US, if that matters. I guess I don't understand when and why these warnings are generated.

[Gerard]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
The warnings were not about the zip files, but about the website, Trojan horses, ransomware. The warnings could be fake. They were not generated by my anti virus software.

Weird. I get no such warnings when accessing the site (not logged in, of course) using Firefox or Chrome. From the US, if that matters. I guess I don't understand when and why these warnings are generated.

I don't know either. But it was alarming enough to switch off my computer immediately. No damage found.
As I have already at least 8 recordings of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances, I don't think I will order Kosler's recording.
What you did describe about Kosler's conducting - can that be heard on his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Dances? As far as I can see these recordings are with the Slovac Philharmonic Orchestra (not the Czech Philharmonic), like the Dvorak symphonies (with Kosler) I have; I have also his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Rhapsodies with that orchestra.

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Gerard
I don't know either. But it was alarming enough to switch off my computer immediately. No damage found.
As I have already at least 8 recordings of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances, I don't think I will order Kosler's recording.
What you did describe about Kosler's conducting - can that be heard on his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Dances? As far as I can see these recordings are with the Slovac Philharmonic Orchestra (not the Czech Philharmonic), like the Dvorak symphonies (with Kosler) I have; I have also his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Rhapsodies with that orchestra.

Don't have that one. I probably have more discs of the Dances than you, too. Lord knows I don't need another. Come to think of it, I nearly have 8 with the Czech Phil alone.

[Gerard]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
I don't know either. But it was alarming enough to switch off my computer immediately. No damage found.
As I have already at least 8 recordings of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances, I don't think I will order Kosler's recording.
What you did describe about Kosler's conducting - can that be heard on his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Dances? As far as I can see these recordings are with the Slovac Philharmonic Orchestra (not the Czech Philharmonic), like the Dvorak symphonies (with Kosler) I have; I have also his Naxos recording of the Slavonic Rhapsodies with that orchestra.

Don't have that one. I probably have more discs of the Dances than you, too. Lord knows I don't need another. Come to think of it, I nearly have 8 with the Czech Phil alone.

I'm afraid I have only 4 recordings of the Slavonic Dances with the Czech Philharmonic ;-)

What I don't understand is what you wrote about Kosler's recording ("I'd like to support my defense of vintage Czech Phil performing standards here by offering my own transfer of a 1980 laserdisc with Zdenec Kosler doing the Slavoinc Dances"), because AFAIK Kosler did not recorded them with the Czech Philharmonic.

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=3313&name_role1=1&name_id2=56620&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=949)

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Gerard
What I don't understand is what you wrote about Kosler's recording ("I'd like to support my defense of vintage Czech Phil performing standards here by offering my own transfer of a 1980 laserdisc with Zdenec Kosler doing the Slavoinc Dances"), because AFAIK Kosler did not recorded them with the Czech Philharmonic.
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=3313&name_role1=1&name_id2=56620&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=949)

Until a few days ago, I thought the 1980 laserdisc I had with video footage of Kosler conducting the, yes, Czech Phil was a true rarity.

But
https://www.discogs.com/Dvo%C5%99%C3%A1k-Slovansk%C3%A9-Tance-Slavonic-Dances-Slawische-T%C3%A4nze-Danses-Slaves/release/2837853
and
https://www.amazon.com/Dvo%C5%99%C3%A1k-Czech-Philharmonic-Zden%C4%9Bk-Ko%C5%A1ler/dp/B07D9WR4BP/ref=sr_1_24?keywords=kosler+slavonic+dances&qid=1552102771&s=gateway&sr=8-24-spell

Like I said, it's on Spotify, and the timings of the dances are identical to my LD transfer, generallly within a second or two (pat on the back).

So now I know that they just synced the video with the studio recording, which explains why there is so much footage of the Czech countryside intercut with the performance.

[Gerard]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
What I don't understand is what you wrote about Kosler's recording ("I'd like to support my defense of vintage Czech Phil performing standards here by offering my own transfer of a 1980 laserdisc with Zdenec Kosler doing the Slavoinc Dances"), because AFAIK Kosler did not recorded them with the Czech Philharmonic.
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=3313&name_role1=1&name_id2=56620&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=949)

Until a few days ago, I thought the 1980 laserdisc I had with video footage of Kosler conducting the, yes, Czech Phil was a true rarity.
But
https://www.discogs.com/Dvo%C5%99%C3%A1k-Slovansk%C3%A9-Tance-Slavonic-Dances-Slawische-T%C3%A4nze-Danses-Slaves/release/2837853
and
https://www.amazon.com/Dvo%C5%99%C3%A1k-Czech-Philharmonic-Zden%C4%9Bk-Ko%C5%A1ler/dp/B07D9WR4BP/ref=sr_1_24?keywords=kosler+slavonic+dances&qid=1552102771&s=gateway&sr=8-24-spell
Like I said, it's on Spotify, and the timings of the dances are identical to my LD transfer, generallly within a second or two (pat on the back).
So now I know that they just synced the video with the studio recording, which explains why there is so much footage of the Czech countryside intercut with the performance.

Thanks.
Strange that this recording by Kosler does not show up at arkivmusic.

[Bozo]

Post by Gerard
I don't know either. But it was alarming enough to switch off my computer immediately. No damage found.

I experienced perhaps a similar problem a few months ago , described in this blog post. Mine even involved a "warning" sound : https://malwaretips.com/blogs/remove-microsoft-warning-alert-scam/

Even if your browser is " frozen", you can usually still "quit " just the browser, not have to shutdown entire computer.. Then a check of your browser " History" may show what happened ( my history did). Only way becomes a problem is if you click on any buttons or links in the " warning." Checking then my computer's entire applications file for any new suspicious apps and then running antivirus software showed nothing actually had been loaded onto my PC ( an I-Mac ).

Caution: I am no expert in such matters.

[Gerard]

Post by Bozo

Post by Gerard
I don't know either. But it was alarming enough to switch off my computer immediately. No damage found.

I experienced perhaps a similar problem a few months ago , described in this blog post. Mine even involved a "warning" sound : https://malwaretips.com/blogs/remove-microsoft-warning-alert-scam/
Even if your browser is " frozen", you can usually still "quit " just the browser, not have to shutdown entire computer.. Then a check of your browser " History" may show what happened ( my history did). Only way becomes a problem is if you click on any buttons or links in the " warning." Checking then my computer's entire applications file for any new suspicious apps and then running antivirus software showed nothing actually had been loaded onto my PC ( an I-Mac ).
Caution: I am no expert in such matters.

One of the warnings I received looks like those you've shown.
The other one was a webpage that "offered" me a tool to remove the Trojan horse that was "detected".

Clicking somewhere on those messages is not recommended indeed ;-)
Switching the computer off was a faster remedy than closing the browser or the popup message.

[O]

Post by Gerard

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Gerard
Thanks for your interesting and informative reply.
I have tried to download the zip files on mediafire.com. But in both
cases I got different messages about Trojan horses and viruses - one of
them looked like a serious warning from Microsft 'himself'.
Anyhow, I did not succeed downloading these files. And I don't like to try again.

Well, why do I bother- it turns out the Kosler Slavonic Dances had life on
LP and CD. And they are even on Spotify. Are they the same as my Pioneer
laserdisc? Yes, timings are the same, nearly to the second. I just ordered
them for myself.
Listening to Spotify, I can at least say that my transfers are quite good
and there isn't a lot of difference between the two sources for the 1979
recording. I'd bet that your warning was just an automatic response given
by your anti-virus software for ZIP files. The files have been tested and
distributed elsewhere; they are safe. But if you want to avoid them, there
are alternatives.

The warnings were not about the zip files, but about the website, Trojan
horses, ransomware. The warnings could be fake. They were not generated by my anti virus software.

Often you are warned because there's a possibility that there could be
malware on the site. Usually it's something like an expired
certificate which means the browser can't really say that you're
connected to the real site or a fake site posing as the real one (a man
in the middle attack).

-Owen

[Ricardo Jimenez]

Post by m***@gmail.com
For comparison, Serebrier gets Bournemouth to exhibit a level of control and balance that is very close to the mark if you want something modern.

Why in the world would somebody not want something just for being
recent (here 2015) mystifies me. But thanks for the tip; the
Serebrier set is on Spotify. It has the symphonies, slavonic dances
and 3 other orchestral works.

By the way, the entire new Berlioz "The Complete Works" (not complete
as you can find out from Amazon reviews) is also up on Spotify.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Ricardo Jimenez

Post by m***@gmail.com
For comparison, Serebrier gets Bournemouth to exhibit a level of control and balance that is very close to the mark if you want something modern.

Why in the world would somebody not want something just for being
recent (here 2015) mystifies me.

He didn't say "just for." You did. I imagine he meant someone wanting
modern sound.



But thanks for the tip; the

Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Serebrier set is on Spotify. It has the symphonies, slavonic dances
and 3 other orchestral works.
By the way, the entire new Berlioz "The Complete Works" (not complete
as you can find out from Amazon reviews) is also up on Spotify.

[m***@gmail.com]

I'd like to support my defense of vintage Czech Phil performing standards here by offering my own transfer of a 1980 laserdisc with Zdenec Kosler doing the Slavoinc Dances. The orchestra sounds fantastic. Compare this to Belo, I dare you.

Op. 46
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3lukw15w538zhtt/KoslerSlavonic46.zip/file
Op. 72
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cre755zd1v51qdy/KoslerSlavonic72.zip/file

All tracks split, btw. Pick you favorite- you won't be disappointed.

[Joe Morris]

Post by m***@gmail.com
I'd like to support my defense of vintage Czech Phil performing standards here by offering my own transfer of a 1980 laserdisc with Zdenec Kosler doing the Slavoinc Dances. The orchestra sounds fantastic. Compare this to Belo, I dare you.
Op. 46
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3lukw15w538zhtt/KoslerSlavonic46.zip/file
Op. 72
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cre755zd1v51qdy/KoslerSlavonic72.zip/file
All tracks split, btw. Pick you favorite- you won't be disappointed.

Thanks! Very nice performances

[Gerard]

Post by Gerard
Decca has issued a 6 CD box with alle symphonies and concerti by Dvorak,
conducted by Belohlavek.
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.
What are the opinions here about this music and about these recordings?

Maybe I'll listen to some Belohlavek tonight. His Brahms, for instance.

The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

==================

Dismissed where? Here? In this thread?

Belohlavek's Brahms is low voltage all the way.
With one exception: the Serenades - those are glorious!

[Oscar]

Post by Herman
Maybe I'll listen to some Belohlavek tonight. His Brahms, for instance.
The way he's dismissed here does not seem right to me.

His late 80's Brahms Symphonies on Supraphon are not "all that", herman. 'Twas just listening to them a fortnight ago. The Serenades, on the other hand, are practically a group consensus "must-buy".

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Gerard
Decca has issued a 6 CD box with alle symphonies and concerti by Dvorak,
conducted by Belohlavek.
I see that ClassicsToday has a review in it's "insiders" section; the
opinion there seems to be "dull" and "utter pointlessness".
Opinions on amazon are the opposite of that.
What are the opinions here about this music and about these recordings?

(Recent Youtube upload):

Dvorák: Cello Concerto, Violin Concerto