Discussion:
Transcendantal...
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MELMOTH13
2020-09-08 15:56:12 UTC
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Cziffra, Arrau and dk should better give up !...
Henk vT
2020-09-08 21:59:22 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Cziffra, Arrau and dk should better give up !...
<g> With the exception of DK, they have.

Henk
dk
2020-09-09 21:59:03 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!

This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.

dk
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-09-10 01:12:08 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!
This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.
dk
I searched on Spotify and found 13 sets of the TE to choose from. One
of them, from 2019 by Mordechai Shehori, has both the 1827 and 1852
versions. That sounded interesting enough so I added it to my album
list. My recollection is that the first time I heard them was on a
set of LPs in stereo made in the 60s by Lazar Berman and was very
impressed. Is this set available on CD? It doesn't seem to be on
Spotify. They have only an older mono version by Berman.
Frank Berger
2020-09-10 02:03:26 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!
This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.
dk
I searched on Spotify and found 13 sets of the TE to choose from. One
of them, from 2019 by Mordechai Shehori, has both the 1827 and 1852
versions. That sounded interesting enough so I added it to my album
list. My recollection is that the first time I heard them was on a
set of LPs in stereo made in the 60s by Lazar Berman and was very
impressed. Is this set available on CD? It doesn't seem to be on
Spotify. They have only an older mono version by Berman.
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
MELMOTH13
2020-09-10 07:37:08 UTC
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There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on Melodiya, from 1959
and 1963, respectively. Plus some miscellaneous etudes from even
earlier.  I'm sure both must be available on the used market.
In my collection :

Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...

And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
Henk vT
2020-09-10 07:51:57 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
<g> You wouldn't be saying that if you had Gerstein.

Henk
Steve Emerson
2020-09-12 19:10:48 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH13
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
<g> You wouldn't be saying that if you had Gerstein.
Henk
Gerstein seems promising in samples, Henk. Thanks for the lead. I'll have to revisit Gekic to see if my first impression (highly affected) or second (interestingly novel and pianistically arresting) now seems right, or neither.

SE.
Henk vT
2020-09-13 14:01:12 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH13
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
<g> You wouldn't be saying that if you had Gerstein.
Henk
Gerstein seems promising in samples, Henk. Thanks for the lead. I'll have to revisit Gekic to see if my first impression (highly affected) or second (interestingly novel and pianistically arresting) now seems right, or neither.
Compared with Trifonov, Gekic's Transcendentals are quite middle of the road ...

BTW, Steve, did I ever thank you for mentioning Alfonso Gomez's Ravel? I've listened to his version a dozen times or so, and with each time it sounded more impressive.

Best regards,
Henk
dk
2020-09-13 23:17:31 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH13
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
<g> You wouldn't be saying that if you had Gerstein.
Henk
Gerstein seems promising in samples, Henk. Thanks for the lead. I'll have to revisit Gekic to see if my first impression (highly affected) or second (interestingly novel and pianistically arresting) now seems right, or neither.
Compared with Trifonov, Gekic's Transcendentals are quite middle of the road
Not necessarily a bad thing -- considering
Trifonov is a hysterical cry baby. I usually
refer to him as "Treif", and his reading of
the TEs as "Treifscendentals".

dk
Henk vT
2020-09-14 12:01:40 UTC
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Post by dk
Not necessarily a bad thing -- considering
Trifonov is a hysterical cry baby. I usually
refer to him as "Treif", and his reading of
the TEs as "Treifscendentals".
<g> Non-kosher, that sounds like a mild reproach, at least to these ears.

Henk
Frank Berger
2020-09-14 14:19:11 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Not necessarily a bad thing -- considering
Trifonov is a hysterical cry baby. I usually
refer to him as "Treif", and his reading of
the TEs as "Treifscendentals".
<g> Non-kosher, that sounds like a mild reproach, at least to these ears.
Henk
To each his own ears.
George
2020-09-15 00:54:40 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Henk vT
Post by MELMOTH13
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And of course Triifanov, the best of all...
<g> You wouldn't be saying that if you had Gerstein.
Henk
Gerstein seems promising in samples, Henk. Thanks for the lead. I'll have to revisit Gekic to see if my first impression (highly affected) or second (interestingly novel and pianistically arresting) now seems right, or neither.
Compared with Trifonov, Gekic's Transcendentals are quite middle of the road ...
BTW, Steve, did I ever thank you for mentioning Alfonso Gomez's Ravel? I've listened to his version a dozen times or so, and with each time it sounded more impressive.
Best regards,
Henk
Gave Gekic's TE another spin over the weekend. If this is middle of the road, I am happy to not be in the gutter with Trifonov.

George

operafan
2020-09-10 13:40:50 UTC
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Kemal Gekic recorded an interesting set of the TE, but it's hard to find:
https://www.discogs.com/Kemal-Geki%C4%87-Liszt-%C3%89tudes-d%C3%89xecution-Transcendante-/release/13266293

The complete recording is on YouTube, however:

Henk vT
2020-09-10 14:44:46 UTC
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Post by operafan
https://www.discogs.com/Kemal-Geki%C4%87-Liszt-%C3%89tudes-d%C3%89xecution-Transcendante-/release/13266293
http://youtu.be/_NW8YKz4S6A
I agree. In those days I liked the set even better than Arrau, Bolet and Cziffra.

Henk
dk
2020-09-12 07:46:52 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on Melodiya, from 1959
and 1963, respectively. Plus some miscellaneous etudes from even
earlier.  I'm sure both must be available on the used market.
Cziffra...
Arrau...
Chamayou...
Berman I and II...
Ovchinnikov...
Berezovsky...
Zhao..
Ott...
Bolet...
Wayenberg...
Giltburg...
Gugnin...
Vacatello...
Jando...
Kultyshev...
Muller...
Stanev...
Howard...
Duchâble...
Cai...
Klinton...
Harlow...
Strelchenko...
And France Clidat ?!?

dk
MELMOTH
2020-09-12 09:15:10 UTC
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Post by dk
And France Clidat ?!?
Yes! I had forgotten her!...
Steve Emerson
2020-09-12 00:17:13 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT), dk <>
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!
This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.
dk
I searched on Spotify and found 13 sets of the TE to choose from. One
of them, from 2019 by Mordechai Shehori, has both the 1827 and 1852
versions. That sounded interesting enough so I added it to my album
list. My recollection is that the first time I heard them was on a
set of LPs in stereo made in the 60s by Lazar Berman and was very
impressed. Is this set available on CD? It doesn't seem to be on
Spotify. They have only an older mono version by Berman.
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Has the 1963 set (stereo) ever been out on CD in the West? It used to be available only in a Japanese release (a friend made a copy for me). I saw some listings on eBay with an unfamiliar cover, no idea which recording -- and expensive. The Berman Russian Piano School volume included the 1959 TE's (mono, very poor sound). The 1963 is very much the one to have.

SE.
c***@gmail.com
2020-09-12 02:09:21 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Frank Berger
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT), dk <>
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!
This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.
dk
I searched on Spotify and found 13 sets of the TE to choose from. One
of them, from 2019 by Mordechai Shehori, has both the 1827 and 1852
versions. That sounded interesting enough so I added it to my album
list. My recollection is that the first time I heard them was on a
set of LPs in stereo made in the 60s by Lazar Berman and was very
impressed. Is this set available on CD? It doesn't seem to be on
Spotify. They have only an older mono version by Berman.
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Has the 1963 set (stereo) ever been out on CD in the West? It used to be available only in a Japanese release (a friend made a copy for me). I saw some listings on eBay with an unfamiliar cover, no idea which recording -- and expensive. The Berman Russian Piano School volume included the 1959 TE's (mono, very poor sound). The 1963 is very much the one to have.
SE.
Berman 1963 was reissued in 2014 by Melodiya. Review here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Jul14/Liszt_etudes_MELCD1002179.htm. The Melodiya seems to be op, but according to discogs it is identical to an issue in the series Les Indispensables de Diapason. N.B. I can't verify that, but the French issue is available as an inexpensive lossless d/l with booklet from Presto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8604490--liszt-douze-etudes-dexecution-transcendante-s-139-les-indispensables-de-diapason.

Hope this helps. AC
Steve Emerson
2020-09-12 19:07:59 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Frank Berger
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT), dk <>
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH13
http://youtu.be/kD4T-rNklsY
Absolutely PATHETIC!
This guy belongs to the sigh on every note,
die on every phrase school of sentimental
pianistic blackmail! And technically he
cannot hold a candle to Cziffra or Berman.
dk
I searched on Spotify and found 13 sets of the TE to choose from. One
of them, from 2019 by Mordechai Shehori, has both the 1827 and 1852
versions. That sounded interesting enough so I added it to my album
list. My recollection is that the first time I heard them was on a
set of LPs in stereo made in the 60s by Lazar Berman and was very
impressed. Is this set available on CD? It doesn't seem to be on
Spotify. They have only an older mono version by Berman.
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Has the 1963 set (stereo) ever been out on CD in the West? It used to be available only in a Japanese release (a friend made a copy for me). I saw some listings on eBay with an unfamiliar cover, no idea which recording -- and expensive. The Berman Russian Piano School volume included the 1959 TE's (mono, very poor sound). The 1963 is very much the one to have.
SE.
Berman 1963 was reissued in 2014 by Melodiya. Review here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Jul14/Liszt_etudes_MELCD1002179.htm. The Melodiya seems to be op, but according to discogs it is identical to an issue in the series Les Indispensables de Diapason. N.B. I can't verify that, but the French issue is available as an inexpensive lossless d/l with booklet from Presto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8604490--liszt-douze-etudes-dexecution-transcendante-s-139-les-indispensables-de-diapason.
Hope this helps. AC
Thanks, Alan! Quite a history. The cover showing up in the MusicWeb review is in fact the one shown with pricey eBay items. Though the $40 there beats the $270 or so on Amazon. Presto's FLACs are a bargain; though I do have the tracks already. Plus multiple American LP issues. (Liszt-wise, you'd have to say Brilliant Classics missed the boat in their sizeable Berman box -- the studio sonata is missing as well.) Far be it from me to understand why Diapason has access to this material. But the MusicWeb piece has valuable details about Berman's sad trajectory; glad to have those. --1990 is a bit early for the end of his performing career; there's a large recital on Koch Discover that includes a Schubert D960, done in June 1992.

SE.
p***@gmail.com
2020-09-12 08:22:25 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Plus an exceptional live set from Milan, 1976 (cd Idis) with the complete TE in the second half and the complete Moments Musicaux Op.16 by Rachmaninoff in the first half, and - because this was not enough - a barrage of encores including an outstanding Orage. Sound is perfectly acceptable. I was in the audience of the same recital a few days later in Bergamo, absolutely mesmerizing
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-09-12 15:23:20 UTC
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Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Plus an exceptional live set from Milan, 1976 (cd Idis) with the complete TE in the second half and the complete Moments Musicaux Op.16 by Rachmaninoff in the first half, and - because this was not enough - a barrage of encores including an outstanding Orage. Sound is perfectly acceptable. I was in the audience of the same recital a few days later in Bergamo, absolutely mesmerizing
Thank you. That 2 disc set is on Spotify.
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-09-12 16:58:17 UTC
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On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 11:23:20 -0400, Ricardo Jimenez
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
There are two (OOP, I think) complete Berman sets on
Melodiya, from 1959 and 1963, respectively. Plus some
miscellaneous etudes from even earlier. I'm sure both must
be available on the used market.
Plus an exceptional live set from Milan, 1976 (cd Idis) with the complete TE in the second half and the complete Moments Musicaux Op.16 by Rachmaninoff in the first half, and - because this was not enough - a barrage of encores including an outstanding Orage. Sound is perfectly acceptable. I was in the audience of the same recital a few days later in Bergamo, absolutely mesmerizing
Thank you. That 2 disc set is on Spotify.
I now see that the Diapason set of the 1963 stereo performance is also
on Spotify. You have to look for Douze études d'exécution
transcendante.
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