Discussion:
DL: Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2 with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst
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Derek Lim
2007-02-16 16:24:34 UTC
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Dear rmcr,

Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.

First movement:
http://download.yousendit.com/CD0422FC22A00752

Second:
http://download.yousendit.com/9845BBF71DB96CC2

Third:
http://download.yousendit.com/15BAADC810C3B599

18th Variation from Rach-Pag
(It doesn't state very clearly on the sleeve who this is by - it could
be Hatto or Adolf Drescher)

http://download.yousendit.com/538BDFA41EB1F2DE

Here's the sleeve notes and cover art:
http://download.yousendit.com/273CA57D0B42B4AB

7 days or 100 downloads...

RE George Hurst: (from http://www.naxos.com/conductorinfo/145.htm)
George Hurst was born in 1926 in Edinburgh of Russian and Romanian
parentage and won early distinction in Canada as a composer while a
student at the Royal Conservatory in Toronto. At the age of 21 he was
appointed professor of composition at the Peabody Institute of
Baltimore and from 1950 to 1955 was concurrently conductor of the
Peabody Conservatory Orchestra and the Symphony Orchestra of York,
Pennsylvania, studying during this period with Pierre Monteux.
Encouraged by Myra Hess to return to England, he made his London debut
in 1953 with the London Philharmonic Orchestra, with which he served
as Assistant Conductor until his appointment as Principal Conductor of
the BBC Northern Orchestra, now the BBC Philharmonic, a position he
held from 1958 for some ten years. He served as artistic adviser
from1968 to 1974 to the Western Orchestral Society, which controls the
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra and Bournemouth Sinfonietta. George
Hurst has conducted all the major orchestras of the united Kingdom and
Ireland, serving as Principal Conductor from 1990 to 1993 of the newly
reconstituted National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland, and has made
guest appearances with many of the most distinguished orchestras of
Europe.

Best regards,

Derek Lim
www.inkpot.com/classical
david gideon
2007-02-16 17:02:14 UTC
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Post by Derek Lim
Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.
I'm downloading these files but have already looked at the scans you
put up. The Cadenza Collection is a real rats nest of recordings from
all over the place. Some of their stuff comes from the catalog of Paul
Lazare in Hamburg, who made recordings specifically for licensing to
various budget labels, usually under pseudonymns.

Lazare at some point cut a deal with Saga in England. He produced some
items for them in Hamburg, and in exchange Saga gave him rights to
license some of their recordings as part of the Lazare catalog. That
catalog actually lists the Hatto/Hurst recording of the Rach 2nd
(produced by Lazare for Saga), but it also lists Lazare's earlier
recording of the work, played by Sondra Bianca. So it's hard to tell
which is the one on Cadenza, though the timings in the catalog (not
precise) are different: Hatto is 35m, while Bianca is 33m.

Back to Cadenza: they could very well have gotten the Hatto/Hurst from
the Lazare catalog. On the other hand, other Cadenza CDs have been
sloppy, inaccurate, or downright deceptive in listing the artists who
are truly performing. So this MIGHT be Hatto; it MIGHT be Bianca; it
could even be one of the Alfred Scholz productions that also show up on
Cadenza. I'll have to do some comparisons to satisfy my curiosity. Of
course, if someone has the original Saga LP that almost certainly IS
Hatto, the comparison to the Cadenza should be definitive.

dg
--
CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances from Scherchen, Stokowski,
Paray, Steinberg, and more, exclusively from: http://www.rediscovery.us
Free downloads and podcast: http://www.rediscoverypodcast.us
e***@freenet.de
2007-03-15 10:39:57 UTC
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Post by david gideon
Post by Derek Lim
Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.
I'm downloading these files but have already looked at the scans you
put up. The Cadenza Collection is a real rats nest of recordings from
all over the place. Some of their stuff comes from the catalog of Paul
Lazare in Hamburg, who made recordings specifically for licensing to
various budget labels, usually under pseudonymns.
Lazare at some point cut a deal with Saga in England. He produced some
items for them in Hamburg, and in exchange Saga gave him rights to
license some of their recordings as part of the Lazare catalog. That
catalog actually lists the Hatto/Hurst recording of the Rach 2nd
(produced by Lazare for Saga), but it also lists Lazare's earlier
recording of the work, played by Sondra Bianca. So it's hard to tell
which is the one on Cadenza, though the timings in the catalog (not
precise) are different: Hatto is 35m, while Bianca is 33m.
Back to Cadenza: they could very well have gotten the Hatto/Hurst from
the Lazare catalog. On the other hand, other Cadenza CDs have been
sloppy, inaccurate, or downright deceptive in listing the artists who
are truly performing. So this MIGHT be Hatto; it MIGHT be Bianca; it
could even be one of the Alfred Scholz productions that also show up on
Cadenza. I'll have to do some comparisons to satisfy my curiosity. Of
course, if someone has the original Saga LP that almost certainly IS
Hatto, the comparison to the Cadenza should be definitive.
dg
--
CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances from Scherchen, Stokowski,
Paray, Steinberg, and more, exclusively from:http://www.rediscovery.us
Free downloads and podcast:http://www.rediscoverypodcast.us
David, saw your postign only now. I have the original Saga LP (and
also three later CD incarnations of that recordings, funnily two of
them underpseudonyms). Hatto breaks each of the opening chords, so
it's easy to determine whether the Cadenza release shows the same
feature.
I was a bit astonished that in "Hatto's" later recordings all chords
were played without arpeggio. Asking WHB-C about this he replied that
Hatto had studied with Ilona Kabos and she had completely changed her
technique; furthermore he said he had advised his wife not to break
the chords and make out of the low F....well, can one believe
that'????

EL
david gideon
2007-03-15 21:05:48 UTC
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Post by e***@freenet.de
David, saw your postign only now. I have the original Saga LP (and
also three later CD incarnations of that recordings, funnily two of
them underpseudonyms). Hatto breaks each of the opening chords, so
it's easy to determine whether the Cadenza release shows the same
feature.
I've since compared the Cadenza with the Saga, and they are the same.
So the Cadenza is apparently one of the few genuine Hatto performances
on CD. I'd be curious to know what the other CD pseudonymous versions
are.

dg
--
CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances from Scherchen, Stokowski,
Paray, Steinberg, and more, exclusively from: http://www.rediscovery.us
Free downloads and podcast: http://www.rediscoverypodcast.us
e***@freenet.de
2007-03-16 08:07:19 UTC
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Post by david gideon
Post by e***@freenet.de
David, saw your postign only now. I have the original Saga LP (and
also three later CD incarnations of that recordings, funnily two of
them underpseudonyms).Hattobreaks each of the opening chords, so
it's easy to determine whether the Cadenza release shows the same
feature.
I've since compared the Cadenza with the Saga, and they are the same.
So the Cadenza is apparently one of the few genuineHattoperformances
on CD. I'd be curious to know what the other CD pseudonymous versions
are.
dg
I'm not at home at the moment, will sort out the info later and post
it.

EL
e***@freenet.de
2007-03-16 14:21:13 UTC
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Post by david gideon
Post by e***@freenet.de
David, saw your postign only now. I have the original Saga LP (and
also three later CD incarnations of that recordings, funnily two of
them underpseudonyms).Hattobreaks each of the opening chords, so
it's easy to determine whether the Cadenza release shows the same
feature.
I've since compared the Cadenza with the Saga, and they are the same.
So the Cadenza is apparently one of the few genuineHattoperformances
on CD. I'd be curious to know what the other CD pseudonymous versions
are.
dg
David, here are Hatto's Rachmaninoff 2nd later CD incarnations :

-Castle Communications TCCD 007-1/2 (double album, made in Sweden)
under the correct names, released 1988 in UK
-Everyman EVCD 36, released 1988 by Object Enterprises Ltd., London/
New York (made in France by mpo)
under "Arnost Berezovsky, pno. / Soviet State Orchestra / Maxim
Genishta"
-Trax Classique TRXCD 123, released 1987 by Filmtrax1987 (made in
Switzerland)
under "Daniel Petrov, pno. / Vienna Symphony Orchestra / Eduard von
Lindenberg"

Shouldn't we set out to create a data base or website with
identifications of all those cheap releases on Lp and CD with those
funny fake names? Bet it would interest more than only some
collectors....

EL
david gideon
2007-03-16 16:29:30 UTC
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Post by e***@freenet.de
Shouldn't we set out to create a data base or website with
identifications of all those cheap releases on Lp and CD with those
funny fake names? Bet it would interest more than only some
collectors....
I've thought about that idea too.

Thanks for the info!

dg
--
CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances from Scherchen, Stokowski,
Paray, Steinberg, and more, exclusively from: http://www.rediscovery.us
Free downloads and podcast: http://www.rediscoverypodcast.us
EM
2007-02-16 19:51:42 UTC
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Post by Derek Lim
Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.
Someone uploaded this to alt.binaries.sounds.lossless.classical:

Bronfman/Salonen Rach 2&3 - Compare to Hatto and Save! "Rachmaninov -
Concertos No.2 & No.3

EM
k***@yahoo.co.uk
2007-02-17 00:13:10 UTC
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Post by EM
Post by Derek Lim
Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.
Bronfman/Salonen Rach 2&3 - Compare to Hatto and Save! "Rachmaninov -
Concertos No.2 & No.3
EM
I'm assured by someone who knows that early recordings of Hatto are
perfectly genuine, such as the Bax Symphonic Variations for Piano and
Orchestra with the Guildford Philharmonic Orchestra under Vernon
Handley (reviewed in The Gramophone in February 1971). Since Mr
Handley is still with us it wouldn't take much to have this recording
at least to be corroborated as genuine. It's the ones with the
obviously fictitious conductors and orchestras that need to be
questioned.
s***@gmail.com
2020-07-28 23:45:21 UTC
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Post by Derek Lim
Dear rmcr,
Here's a download of Joyce Hatto's Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2
with The Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Hurst.
http://download.yousendit.com/CD0422FC22A00752
http://download.yousendit.com/9845BBF71DB96CC2
http://download.yousendit.com/15BAADC810C3B599
18th Variation from Rach-Pag
(It doesn't state very clearly on the sleeve who this is by - it could
be Hatto or Adolf Drescher)
http://download.yousendit.com/538BDFA41EB1F2DE
http://download.yousendit.com/273CA57D0B42B4AB
7 days or 100 downloads...
RE George Hurst: (from http://www.naxos.com/conductorinfo/145.htm)
George Hurst was born in 1926 in Edinburgh of Russian and Romanian
parentage and won early distinction in Canada as a composer while a
student at the Royal Conservatory in Toronto. At the age of 21 he was
appointed professor of composition at the Peabody Institute of
Baltimore and from 1950 to 1955 was concurrently conductor of the
Peabody Conservatory Orchestra and the Symphony Orchestra of York,
Pennsylvania, studying during this period with Pierre Monteux.
Encouraged by Myra Hess to return to England, he made his London debut
in 1953 with the London Philharmonic Orchestra, with which he served
as Assistant Conductor until his appointment as Principal Conductor of
the BBC Northern Orchestra, now the BBC Philharmonic, a position he
held from 1958 for some ten years. He served as artistic adviser
from1968 to 1974 to the Western Orchestral Society, which controls the
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra and Bournemouth Sinfonietta. George
Hurst has conducted all the major orchestras of the united Kingdom and
Ireland, serving as Principal Conductor from 1990 to 1993 of the newly
reconstituted National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland, and has made
guest appearances with many of the most distinguished orchestras of
Europe.
Best regards,
Derek Lim
www.inkpot.com/classical
Dear Colleagues,
I recently bought a cd of Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 2 by Arnost Berezovsky with Maxim Genishta conducting the Soviet State Orchestra by mistake, thinking it was Boris Berezovsky. Since the seller on ebay just listed Berezovsky and Soviet State Orchestra, it was a reasonable guess. When it arrived on a no-name cheapo label I put it aside with the intent to throw it out. But then I was in a hurry and put it in my car to take to the trash but out of curtiosity put it in the cd player and started listening to it. The Adagio was particularly poignant and over several weeks thought tha this was a pretty good recording. Out of further curiosity, I wondered who Arnost Berezovsky was and founf your email chain talking about Joyce Hatto and the possibility that she was actually the recordinmg artist. This particular cd was called "Concerto Digital Classics" and distributed by Elap Music A/S in Pandrup Denmark andmanufactured in the E.E.C, Curiouser and curiouser.
Stephen G.
Not a Dentist
2020-08-01 16:26:42 UTC
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From several years back now, I recall reading that the purported "Hatto" version of Rachmaninoff PC 2 (and 3, I presume) was boldly pilfered from the Sony recording by Yefim Bronfman and the Philharmonia Orchestra under Esa-Pekka Salonen.

Happy listening!
ways
2020-08-01 17:32:34 UTC
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may one ask why i get this when i click on any of these links
[First movement:
http://download.yousendit.com/CD0422FC22A00752
Second:
http://download.yousendit.com/9845BBF71DB96CC2
Third:
http://download.yousendit.com/15BAADC810C3B599]


https://www.hightail.com/
e***@gmail.com
2020-08-01 22:00:07 UTC
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You realize you are clicking on links that are 13 years old, right?
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