Discussion:
Only one version of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas
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Rebuild Queens Hall London
2020-09-04 11:20:47 UTC
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A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
b***@gmail.com
2020-09-04 11:47:41 UTC
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No.
Frank Berger
2020-09-04 12:46:02 UTC
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No.
Not anyone?
Neil
2020-09-04 13:07:12 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
No.
Not anyone?
Can't think of any single set.
KimDenmark
2020-09-04 13:19:36 UTC
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Melmoth; interesting that you choose del Pueyo´s set. It is a fantastic set and it hasn´t received the attention it deserves. I have slight reservations about the sound, especially in the early sonatas. At least on my stereo and in my listening room, the mechanical noises of the piano are really annoying and distracting. But beautiful music anyway...
I, too, would choose the Backhaus Stereo set. It still is the most natural Beethoven to my ears and I´ve never understood the charge of Backhaus nor being poetic. Even Kempff, Buchbinder, Gieseking, Richter-Haaser and Schnabel would be left behind. Luckily, I´m not pressed to abandon them:-)
p***@gmail.com
2020-09-14 06:04:57 UTC
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Post by Neil
Can't think of any single set.
If it has to be one and one only set, I suppose you want 1) a truly complete one (with all the Sonatinas, the Kurfursten, the Leichte etc.), 2) glorious SACD sound, 3) not the unusual instruments you can hear everywhere else, 4) a player who actually looks like Beethoven himself (really), and on top of all this, 5) one of the top Pathetiques in the whole history of recorded sound. So, go with Brautigam.
p***@gmail.com
2020-09-14 06:06:58 UTC
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Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Neil
Can't think of any single set.
If it has to be one and one only set, I suppose you want 1) a truly complete one (with all the Sonatinas, the Kurfursten, the Leichte etc.), 2) glorious SACD sound, 3) not the unusual instruments you can hear everywhere else, 4) a player who actually looks like Beethoven himself (really), and on top of all this, 5) one of the top Pathetiques in the whole history of recorded sound. So, go with Brautigam.
I meant, 3) not the usual instruments
MELMOTH13
2020-09-04 12:22:29 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
No...
Eduardo Del Pueyo...
MELMOTH13
2020-09-06 10:46:15 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if
only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and
resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
No...
Eduardo Del Pueyo...
And Eric HEIDSIECK ! (EMI)...
Matthew Silverstein
2020-09-06 12:31:25 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH13
And Eric HEIDSIECK ! (EMI)...
Heidsieck's set is wonderful.

Matty
George
2020-09-04 13:28:26 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
Although I enjoy the stereo Backhaus set and I enjoy the mono Backhaus set even more, I would not choose that set if I could only have one. My choice would be Annie Fischer.

George
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-09-04 14:28:14 UTC
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT), George
Post by George
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
Although I enjoy the stereo Backhaus set and I enjoy the mono Backhaus set even more, I would not choose that set if I could only have one. My choice would be Annie Fischer.
George
I guess that nobody replying in this thread has been listening to the
many complete sets by contemporary pianists that have come out
recently. I think the majority of them are more enjoyable to listen
to than these older ones. Certainly the sound and piano technique are
superior.
JohnGavin
2020-09-04 15:15:08 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT), George
On Friday, September 4, 2020 at 7:20:50 AM UTC-4, Rebuild Queens Hal
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
Although I enjoy the stereo Backhaus set and I enjoy the mono Backhaus set even more, I would not choose that set if I could only have one. My choice would be Annie Fischer.
George
I guess that nobody replying in this thread has been listening to the
many complete sets by contemporary pianists that have come out
recently. I think the majority of them are more enjoyable to listen
to than these older ones. Certainly the sound and piano technique are
superior.
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s. I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style - I just very much like Levit’s straightforwardness, his sound, Sony’s engineering, and the uniformally high quality of these performances. Sometimes they strike me a bit as Beethoven-lite, but that doesn’t bother me at all.
Bozo
2020-09-04 16:54:45 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
Several live, free streaming videos coming up of Levit playing all the LvB Sonatas ( I heard the 3rd, missed the first two ), and tomorrow Nicholas Alsteadt playing the complete Bach cello suites.The Musikfest Berlin are the free ones. You need to sin up for free account.Do not think these will be archived for later viewing.

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live
dk
2020-09-06 03:46:37 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?

dk
JohnGavin
2020-09-06 16:33:11 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
It’s intuitive combined with descriptions of his playing - raw, explosive and unpolished.

Levit is none of those - and so I was dissuading anyone looking for those qualities.
dk
2020-09-07 01:55:35 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
It’s intuitive combined with descriptions of
his playing - raw, explosive and unpolished.
Sounds like HJ Lim to my ears! ;-)
Post by JohnGavin
Levit is none of those - and so I was
dissuading anyone looking for those
qualities.
Levit is the most boring pianist to get
noticed in recent years.

dk
Matthew Silverstein
2020-09-14 08:10:41 UTC
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Post by dk
Sounds like HJ Lim to my ears! ;-)
Dan, have you heard Daniel-Ben Pienaar's cycle (released on Avie)? I'm curious to know what you think of it. (I'm listening to his op. 57 right now and enjoying it.)

Matty
dk
2020-09-07 02:13:24 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
It’s intuitive combined with descriptions of
his playing - raw, explosive and unpolished.
This sounds exactly like HJ Lim to my ears! ;-)
Post by JohnGavin
Levit is none of those - and so I was
dissuading anyone looking for those
qualities.
Levit is the most boring metromoron
to sit in front of a piano since
Claudio Arrau.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-07 15:38:04 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
https://books.google.com/books?id=oRiPOkaMnAAC&pg=PA233&dq=%22sonata+style%22+%22intimate+and+detailed%22+%22introspection%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5xa7hr9frAhXG_qQKHbiEChEQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22sonata%20style%22%20%22intimate%20and%20detailed%22%20%22introspection%22&f=false
dk
2020-09-07 18:57:17 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
https://books.google.com/books?id=oRiPOkaMnAAC&pg=PA233&dq=%22sonata+style%22+%22intimate+and+detailed%22+%22introspection%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5xa7hr9frAhXG_qQKHbiEChEQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22sonata%20style%22%20%22intimate%20and%20detailed%22%20%22introspection%22&f=false
Is the bot still obsessed with "official"
textbook definitions? I couldn't care less!

dk
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-08 00:36:57 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
https://books.google.com/books?id=oRiPOkaMnAAC&pg=PA233&dq=%22sonata+style%22+%22intimate+and+detailed%22+%22introspection%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5xa7hr9frAhXG_qQKHbiEChEQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22sonata%20style%22%20%22intimate%20and%20detailed%22%20%22introspection%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=8DXnDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&dq=%22one+feels+the+element+of+risk-taking+in+the+live+recordings+of+the+Beethoven+sonatas%22%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj55P6ZqNjrAhVPjqQKHfSlC7sQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22one%20feels%20the%20element%20of%20risk-taking%20in%20the%20live%20recordings%20of%20the%20Beethoven%20sonatas%22%22&f=false
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-08 06:46:52 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
https://shop.abrsm.org/shop/prod/Tovey-Donald-Francis-Companion-to-Beethoven-s-Pianoforte-Sonatas/641707
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-08 06:52:22 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781574671780/Playing-the-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-08 07:01:36 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
dk
According to this:

- ...Perhaps the very notion of defining a "Beethoven style" is misguided.

http://classicalnotes.net/classics3/appassionata.html
dk
2020-09-13 23:18:42 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
I’ve never enjoyed any complete cycle as much as Igor Levit’s.
I’m not suggesting that is the closest to true Beethoven style
What is "true Beethoven style"? Who
defines it? Who verifies/certifies it?
- ...Perhaps the very notion of defining a "Beethoven style" is misguided.
http://classicalnotes.net/classics3/appassionata.html
Do you have any opinions of your own?
Or are you just weaponizing quotes?

dk
George
2020-09-04 23:19:38 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
I guess that nobody replying in this thread has been listening to the
many complete sets by contemporary pianists that have come out
recently. I think the majority of them are more enjoyable to listen
to than these older ones. Certainly the sound and piano technique are
superior.
Sounds like you've worked out what is important to you in a Beethoven sonata performance. Maybe at some point you'll figure out that other people have different things that matter most to them in a Beethoven sonata performance.

George
Henk vT
2020-09-04 17:43:18 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
I like Backhaus's Beethoven. However, If I could keep only one set, it would be Bavouzet. It's very easy to listen to.

Henk
Rebuild Queens Hall London
2020-09-05 09:26:21 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
I like Backhaus's Beethoven. However, If I could keep only one set, it would be Bavouzet. It's very easy to listen to.
Henk
The most recent cycle I have heard is Bernard Roberts on Nimbus but the Annie Fisher is interesting 1st choice.
ljk...@aol.com
2020-09-05 13:43:12 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
Post by Henk vT
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
I like Backhaus's Beethoven. However, If I could keep only one set, it would be Bavouzet. It's very easy to listen to.
Henk
The most recent cycle I have heard is Bernard Roberts on Nimbus but the Annie Fisher is interesting 1st choice.
Kovachevich works for me, though I fell hard for Del Pueyo's Hammerklavier many years ago.
Chango
2020-09-07 22:32:57 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
Post by Henk vT
Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
I like Backhaus's Beethoven. However, If I could keep only one set, it would be Bavouzet. It's very easy to listen to.
Henk
The most recent cycle I have heard is Bernard Roberts on Nimbus but the Annie Fisher is interesting 1st choice.
My favorite used to be the Annie Fischer (Hungaroton), but I haven't played it for some time. My go-to the last few years has been the relatively recent second-go by Rudolf Buchbinder (Sony). Overall, I find the depth, excitement and sonics to be such that I replay the whole set very often, even for travel on my iPhone dumbed down to mp3.

Steve Koenig
dk
2020-09-06 03:44:08 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano
sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted.
I thought about it for around 1 minute and
resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set.
Does anyone agree ?.
Of course. It is far easier to
find agreement in the Parliament
than in this ng.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2020-09-08 00:40:53 UTC
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Post by Rebuild Queens Hall London
A friend asked me what set of Beethoven piano sonatas to choose if only one set was wanted. I thought about it for around 1 minute and resolutely said the Backhaus stereo set. Does anyone agree ?.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.classical/Mq0RXm3zxV0
Tassilo
2020-09-14 01:21:31 UTC
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I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).

Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.

No Kempff or Backhaus for me.

-Tassilo
dk
2020-09-14 01:48:09 UTC
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Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!

And you would probably love HJ Lim!

dk
Frank Berger
2020-09-14 03:11:52 UTC
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Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips? There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
Tassilo
2020-09-14 03:47:51 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips? There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
Here is Bishop/Kovacevich's 1966 EMI recording of 101 & 109:

https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Frank Berger
2020-09-14 14:50:49 UTC
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Post by Tassilo
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips? There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah. Never on CD, I presume.
Bob Harper
2020-09-14 17:07:22 UTC
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Post by Tassilo
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and
Andrea Lucchesini.  (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I
bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without
wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound.  Turns out I
don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse.  I
absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the
Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete
sonatas is a mixed bag.  I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete,
but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need
(including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never
recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski,
Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the
Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of
Beethoven sonata recordings.  Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his
CBS recordings of the last six sonatas.  I also like Bruce
Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of
very favorite Beethoven recordings.  I also love Stephen Bishop’s
(now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips?  There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah.  Never on CD, I presume.
Not that I know of. His Brahms Clarinet Sonatas with de Peyer were, but
not these Beethoven Sonatas, unfortunately.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-09-14 18:51:34 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 11:11:59 PM UTC-4, Frank
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 9:21:34 AM UTC+8,
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude
Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini.  (Betcha nobody else
mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it
was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I
needed a recording in good sound.  Turns out I don’t
like it at all, although you could do far worse.  I
absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of
the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live
recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag.  I
wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the
75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need
(including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven
never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin,
Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately
Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas
is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata
recordings.  Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS
recordings of the last six sonatas.  I also like Bruce
Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him
off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings.  I
also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early
EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips?  There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah.  Never on CD, I presume.
Not that I know of. His Brahms Clarinet Sonatas with de
Peyer were, but not these Beethoven Sonatas, unfortunately.
Bob Harper
Hmm. Couldn't find a reference to that at all, even LP, let
alone CD. Are you sure. I have de Peyer with Barenboim.
Bob Harper
2020-09-14 22:39:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Tassilo
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and
Andrea Lucchesini.  (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I
bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel
without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound.
Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far
worse.  I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of
the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the
complete sonatas is a mixed bag.  I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel
complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I
really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never
recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski,
Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the
Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of
Beethoven sonata recordings.  Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or
his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas.  I also like Bruce
Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list
of very favorite Beethoven recordings.  I also love Stephen
Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips?  There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah.  Never on CD, I presume.
Not that I know of. His Brahms Clarinet Sonatas with de Peyer were,
but not these Beethoven Sonatas, unfortunately.
Bob Harper
Hmm.  Couldn't find a reference to that at all, even LP, let alone CD.
Are you sure.  I have de Peyer with Barenboim.
Senior moment. You are correct.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-09-14 23:54:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 11:11:59 PM UTC-4,
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 9:21:34 AM UTC+8,
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude
Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini.  (Betcha nobody else
mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because
it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes
and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I
don’t like it at all, although you could do far
worse.  I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI
recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but
his live recording of the complete sonatas is a
mixed bag.  I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel
complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven
sonatas that I really need (including the last four
sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing
Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf
Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen.
Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the
Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the
discography of Beethoven sonata recordings.  Not so
his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the
last six sonatas.  I also like Bruce Hungerford,
although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list
of very favorite Beethoven recordings.  I also love
Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI
recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips?  There was a 1978 recording with
them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
Here is Bishop/Kovacevich's 1966 EMI recording of 101 &
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah.  Never on CD, I presume.
Not that I know of. His Brahms Clarinet Sonatas with de
Peyer were, but not these Beethoven Sonatas, unfortunately.
Bob Harper
Hmm.  Couldn't find a reference to that at all, even LP,
let alone CD. Are you sure.  I have de Peyer with Barenboim.
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Occasionally, I am correct. Law of averages or something.
Frank Berger
2020-09-15 00:18:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 11:11:59 PM UTC-4,
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 9:21:34 AM UTC+8,
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude
Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini.  (Betcha nobody else
mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because
it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes
and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I
don’t like it at all, although you could do far
worse.  I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI
recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but
his live recording of the complete sonatas is a
mixed bag.  I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel
complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven
sonatas that I really need (including the last four
sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing
Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf
Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen.
Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the
Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the
discography of Beethoven sonata recordings.  Not so
his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the
last six sonatas.  I also like Bruce Hungerford,
although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list
of very favorite Beethoven recordings.  I also love
Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI
recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips?  There was a 1978 recording with
them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
Here is Bishop/Kovacevich's 1966 EMI recording of 101 &
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Ah.  Never on CD, I presume.
Not that I know of. His Brahms Clarinet Sonatas with de
Peyer were, but not these Beethoven Sonatas, unfortunately.
Bob Harper
Hmm.  Couldn't find a reference to that at all, even LP,
let alone CD. Are you sure.  I have de Peyer with Barenboim.
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment." People will believe you.
Bob Harper
2020-09-15 05:14:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment."  People will believe you.
Why not? I am, and it was.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-09-15 05:20:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment."  People will believe you.
Why not? I am, and it was.
Bob Harper
I don't want to make too much of this, but everyone makes
mistakes like this, and some seniors make more than younger
people. But, I for one, wouldn't wish to be known as
someone who has a lot of them. Even if I do.
Bob Harper
2020-09-15 16:31:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment."  People will believe you.
Why not? I am, and it was.
Bob Harper
I don't want to make too much of this, but everyone makes mistakes like
this, and some seniors make more than younger people.  But, I for one,
wouldn't wish to be known as someone who has a lot of them.  Even if I do.
But Frank, this was my first one ever :).

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-09-15 16:33:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment."  People will believe you.
Why not? I am, and it was.
Bob Harper
I don't want to make too much of this, but everyone makes
mistakes like this, and some seniors make more than
younger people.  But, I for one, wouldn't wish to be known
as someone who has a lot of them.  Even if I do.
But Frank, this was my first one ever :).
Bob Harper
That was your second one.
Bob Harper
2020-09-15 22:29:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
Senior moment. You are correct.
Bob Harper
Do not ever say, "senior moment."  People will believe you.
Why not? I am, and it was.
Bob Harper
I don't want to make too much of this, but everyone makes mistakes
like this, and some seniors make more than younger people.  But, I
for one, wouldn't wish to be known as someone who has a lot of them.
Even if I do.
But Frank, this was my first one ever :).
Bob Harper
That was your second one.
Touché.

Bob Harper
Tassilo
2020-09-14 03:49:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips? There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
Here is Bishop/Kovacevich's 1966 recording of op. 101 & op. 109:

https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
Bob Harper
2020-09-14 17:04:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Tassilo
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109.
Do you mean Philips? There was a 1978 recording with them
and one from 1994 with EMI.
https://www.discogs.com/Stephen-Bishop-A-Beethoven-Recital/master/627326
That Seraphim LP was my introduction to this music. Your opinion is
correct (which I guess just means that I agree with you :)). A CD
reissue would be nice, but I suspect unlikely.

Bob Harper
KimDenmark
2020-09-14 13:51:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!

And it would improve your posts ( and probably your perceptions ), if you would cut back on the use of exclamation marks!
dk
2020-09-15 08:59:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by KimDenmark
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!
And it would improve your posts
< ( and probably your perceptions ),
Post by KimDenmark
if you would cut back on the use
of exclamation marks!
Sez who? We are all entitled to our
opinions. We have no right to tell
others what to do -- or not!

Buzz off!

dk
Frank Berger
2020-09-15 11:56:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by KimDenmark
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!
And it would improve your posts
< ( and probably your perceptions ),
Post by KimDenmark
if you would cut back on the use
of exclamation marks!
Sez who? We are all entitled to our
opinions. We have no right to tell
others what to do -- or not!
Buzz off!
dk
Actually, though it may be rude and certainly is pointless,
he has a perfect right to tell you to shut up, just as you
have a right to tell him to buzz off. But you know that.
dk
2020-09-15 15:03:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by KimDenmark
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!
And it would improve your posts
< ( and probably your perceptions ),
Post by KimDenmark
if you would cut back on the use
of exclamation marks!
Sez who? We are all entitled to our
opinions. We have no right to tell
others what to do -- or not!
Buzz off!
Actually, though it may be rude and certainly is pointless,
he has a perfect right to tell you to shut up, just as you
have a right to tell him to buzz off. But you know that.
You are missing an important point
however: I stated opinions about the
two Wilhelms, who are long departed.
I did not attack any living person
directly, let alone anyone posting
in this ng.

On the other hand KimDenmark attacked
me directly for stating opinions that
he does not like. The two actions are
not equivalent.

Take care,

dk
Frank Berger
2020-09-15 15:12:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by KimDenmark
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!
And it would improve your posts
< ( and probably your perceptions ),
Post by KimDenmark
if you would cut back on the use
of exclamation marks!
Sez who? We are all entitled to our
opinions. We have no right to tell
others what to do -- or not!
Buzz off!
Actually, though it may be rude and certainly is pointless,
he has a perfect right to tell you to shut up, just as you
have a right to tell him to buzz off. But you know that.
You are missing an important point
however: I stated opinions about the
two Wilhelms, who are long departed.
I did not attack any living person
directly, let alone anyone posting
in this ng.
On the other hand KimDenmark attacked
me directly for stating opinions that
he does not like. The two actions are
not equivalent.
Take care,
dk
I did not defend what he said; just his right to say it.
dk
2020-09-19 07:58:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by KimDenmark
Post by dk
I own exactly three complete sets, Heidsieck, Claude Frank, and Andrea Lucchesini. (Betcha nobody else mentions Lucchesini.) I bought Claude Frank because it was supposed to be Schnabel without wrong notes and I needed a recording in good sound. Turns out I don’t like it at all, although you could do far worse. I absolutely adore Andrea Lucchesini’s EMI recordings of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier, but his live recording of the complete sonatas is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t mind owning Schnabel complete, but I have the 75% of his Beethoven sonatas that I really need (including the last four sonatas).
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen. Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings. Not so his Epic Hammerklavier or his CBS recordings of the last six sonatas. I also like Bruce Hungerford, although his extreme austerity keeps him off my list of very favorite Beethoven recordings. I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
No Kempff or Backhaus for me.
If you do not like Kempff and Backhaus
you deserve recognition and admiration
for your good taste and great hearing!
And you would probably love HJ Lim!
dk
If you do not like Beethoven
you deserve recognition and admiration
if you would stay quiet
while the grown-ups are talking!
And it would improve your posts
< ( and probably your perceptions ),
Post by KimDenmark
if you would cut back on the use
of exclamation marks!
Sez who? We are all entitled to our
opinions. We have no right to tell
others what to do -- or not!
Buzz off!
Actually, though it may be rude and certainly is pointless,
he has a perfect right to tell you to shut up, just as you
have a right to tell him to buzz off. But you know that.
You are missing an important point
however: I stated opinions about the
two Wilhelms, who are long departed.
I did not attack any living person
directly, let alone anyone posting
in this ng.
On the other hand KimDenmark attacked
me directly for stating opinions that
he does not like. The two actions are
not equivalent.
I did not defend what he said; just
his right to say it.
It did not sound to my ears you were
defending everybody's rights equally!

Shana Tova!

dk

Tatonik
2020-09-14 17:30:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded
complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen.
Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas
is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings.
Are these the ones Rosen recorded for Nonesuch? I came across them in a
discography and was curious about them. Were they ever released on CD?

How would you characterize their deficiencies? Mostly technical or
interpretive?
Tassilo
2020-09-14 23:50:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tatonik
Are these the ones Rosen recorded for Nonesuch? I came across them in a
discography and was curious about them. Were they ever released on CD?
How would you characterize their deficiencies? Mostly technical or
interpretive?
As to your first question:

Beethoven: The Great Middle Period Sonatas
Sonatas op. 31, nos.1-3
Sonata no. 21 in C major, op. 53, “Waldstein”
Sonata no. 23 in F minor, op. 57, “Appassionata”
Sonata no. 24 in F sharp major, op. 78, “À Thérèse”
Sonata no. 26 in E flat major, op. 81a, “Les adieux”
Charles Rosen, piano
LP: Nonesuch NC 78010, (P) 1981
CD: Globe Records, (P) 2013

There’s also another single disc Nonesuch release with Rosen featuring Beethoven sonatas:

Beethoven:
Piano Sonata, op. 26 (“Funeral March)
Piano Sonatas, op. 27, nos. 1 & 2 (“Moonlight”)
Bagatelles, op. 119
Charles Rosen, piano
LP only: Nonesuch 79122, (P) 1985

I don’t remember my impression of this disc very well. The Middle Period set strikes me as interpretively very odd, and the sound of the playing is somehow harsh and clangorous, relatively speaking. Haven’t listened in a while, though. As it turns out I compiled a discography of all of Rosen’s recordings for publication in a Festschrift published in Rosen’s honor: Robert Curry, David Gable, & Robert Marshall, editors, Variations on the Canon: Essays on Music from Bach to Boulez in Honor of Charles Rosen on his 80th Birthday (University of Rochester Press, Eastman Studies in Music Series, 2009). The essay on Boulez in this book is also by me. (If you look at the Library of Congress Rosen discography it was clumsily plagiarized from me.)

There’s also a recording of the Diabelli Variations that might interest you. I like it a lot more than any of the Nonesuch Beethoven:

Beethoven: Variations on a Waltz of Diabelli
LP: IMP Classics, (P) 1977
CD reissue: [IMP Classics] Carlton Classics, (P) 1995

If you’re a Rosen fan, you might enjoy Robert Winter’s review of the Sony release, Charles Rosen: The Complete Epic and Columbia Album Collection:

Robert Winter, “Versatile, Fearless Charles Rosen at the Piano,” The New York Review of Books v. 63, no. 6, April 7, 2016
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/04/07/versatile-fearless-charles-rosen-at-the-piano/

-Tassilo, unashamed admirer of Rosen, pianist & critic
dk
2020-09-15 08:59:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tatonik
Post by Tassilo
Most of the pianists I like to hear playing Beethoven never recorded
complete sets: Rudolf Serkin, Casadesus, Horszowski, Charles Rosen.
Unfortunately Charles Rosen’s recording of the Middle Period sonatas
is a low point in the discography of Beethoven sonata recordings.
Are these the ones Rosen recorded for Nonesuch? I came across them in a
discography and was curious about them. Were they ever released on CD?
How would you characterize their deficiencies? Mostly technical or
interpretive?
Dry as dust.

dk
Al Eisner
2020-09-15 05:22:33 UTC
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I also love Stephen Bishop’s (now Kovacevich’s) early EMI recording of op. 109. Would love a whole set of the Beethoven sonatas with playing like that.
His later complete set did nothing for you?
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Al Eisner
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