Discussion:
Your 5 favorite Conductors
(too old to reply)
ansermetniac
2003-12-19 22:32:21 UTC
Permalink
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs

again

Mine in Alphabetical order:

Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini

BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.


Abbedd
Raymond Hall
2003-12-19 22:53:30 UTC
Permalink
"ansermetniac" <***@optonline.net> wrote in message news:***@localhost...
| I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
| everyone to list theirs
|
| BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.

Mehta basher.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
ansermetniac
2003-12-19 23:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
| I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
| everyone to list theirs
|
| BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Mehta basher.
And proud of it. Am I not allowed? I had a sub in 1981 for the NY Phil.
The late Gil Cohen 2nd trombone for about 20 years starting in 1963 said
Solti is the biggest phoney on the podium. Wrong. Zubin is. Just because
someone makes records and is the Music director of a major symphony does
not mean he is a good conductor. The NY Phil sounded like a fifth rate
orchestra under Mehta. Are you aware that 4 others turned down the job
before Mehta was picked. The audiences loved him. The critics hated him
and the record companies would not record him

The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz. I saw an all Mozart concert at the Hollywood Bowl. But at
least Schwarz did not push the surface of the Music to belabor his
point.



Abbedd
Post by Raymond Hall
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
David7Gable
2003-12-20 02:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz.
In the case of the performances you're talking about--perhaps even the
overwhelming majority of Mehta's performance--you're right. But he was very
different in the beginning. There is nothing bland about his recording of the
Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the L.A. Phil. Far less distinctive
and imaginative are the recordings with Solti, Karajan, and Boulez(both of
'em). (And Solti is supposed to have a special feeling for Schoenberg, Karajan
for pieces in the late Austro-German Romantic tradition, Boulez for
20th-century music.) I have never heard a performance of any piece that
sounded more Viennese.

-david gable
DelMarva LaPoule
2003-12-20 03:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz.
In the case of the performances you're talking about--perhaps even the
overwhelming majority of Mehta's performance--you're right. But he was very
different in the beginning. There is nothing bland about his recording of the
Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the L.A. Phil. Far less distinctive
and imaginative are the recordings with Solti, Karajan, and Boulez(both of
'em). (And Solti is supposed to have a special feeling for Schoenberg, Karajan
for pieces in the late Austro-German Romantic tradition, Boulez for
20th-century music.) I have never heard a performance of any piece that
sounded more Viennese.
-david gable
Mehta's recording of the Schmidt 4th is one of the greatest performances
I have ever heard -- by anyone.

But I have heard so many Mehta performances that are clueless (his
Mahler is shockingly low-IQ) that I have to wonder how that Schmidt
recording ever happened. Is it because the VPO can play it in its sleep?

Oh, and on the subject of Solti: I just made a CD transfer of his
Schumann 2nd Symphony. Much to my surprise, the performance is very
effective, although not even close to consensus. It is rather like
Schumann on steroids, and a welcome change from the monochrome
Sawallisch and the like. It's the first performance I have heard by
Solti that didn't make me wish I were wearing a bullet-proof vest.
--
DelMarva LaPoule
Poetry in Poultry

"Opinion, in the face of reality, becomes dogma."
JJ
2003-12-20 06:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DelMarva LaPoule
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz.
In the case of the performances you're talking about--perhaps even the
overwhelming majority of Mehta's performance--you're right. But he
was very different in the beginning. There is nothing bland about his
recording of the Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the L.A.
Phil. Far less distinctive and imaginative are the recordings with
Solti, Karajan, and Boulez(both of 'em). (And Solti is supposed to
have a special feeling for Schoenberg, Karajan for pieces in the late
Austro-German Romantic tradition, Boulez for 20th-century music.) I
have never heard a performance of any piece that sounded more
Viennese.
-david gable
Mehta's recording of the Schmidt 4th is one of the greatest
performances I have ever heard -- by anyone.
But I have heard so many Mehta performances that are clueless (his
Mahler is shockingly low-IQ) that I have to wonder how that Schmidt
recording ever happened. Is it because the VPO can play it in its sleep?
Oh, and on the subject of Solti: I just made a CD transfer of his
Schumann 2nd Symphony. Much to my surprise, the performance is very
effective, although not even close to consensus. It is rather like
Schumann on steroids, and a welcome change from the monochrome
Sawallisch and the like. It's the first performance I have heard by
Solti that didn't make me wish I were wearing a bullet-proof vest.
Are you referring to the Solti Schumann 2 with the VPO? I agree, it may
not be the most tasteful, but it's pretty damn exciting.

And re: Mehta's Mahler, I have to say that the LAPO Mahler 3 and the VPO
Mahler 2 are two of the greatest Mahler performances on record. Although,
all other Mahler I've heard by Mehta, admittedly, I've found forgettable.

Jon
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 06:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JJ
And re: Mehta's Mahler, I have to say that the
LAPO Mahler 3 and the VPO Mahler 2 are two of
the greatest Mahler performances on record.
Although, all other Mahler I've heard by
Mehta, admittedly, I've found forgettable.
Even the 1st with the IPO that includes the
Blumine movement (Decca)? Hard to imagine.

IMHO it it is one of the top 3-4 Mahler 1st
performances.



dk
Your Pal Brian
2003-12-20 23:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by JJ
And re: Mehta's Mahler, I have to say that the LAPO Mahler 3 and the VPO
Mahler 2 are two of the greatest Mahler performances on record. Although,
all other Mahler I've heard by Mehta, admittedly, I've found forgettable.
I've heard him do the 3rd thrice; two live on the radio and one live in the
flesh with the NYPO. Every time excellent. The piece seems to be some kind
of specialty of his.

My top five?

Toscanini

...then a little ways back...

Munch
Casals
Mitropoulos
Knappertsbusch
Bernstein

Or some such.

That's six, isn't it.

Brian
Richard Schultz
2003-12-21 07:59:10 UTC
Permalink
In article <LZOEb.260$***@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>, DelMarva LaPoule <vze28thq@**nospam**verizon.net> wrote:
: David7Gable wrote:

: Mehta's recording of the Schmidt 4th is one of the greatest performances
: I have ever heard -- by anyone.

Having heard Mehta perform live several times over the last few years with
the IPO, I can confirm that he still has it when he's conducting Schoenberg.
He also gave a concert performance of "Salome" a couple of years back that
was not at all bad.

: But I have heard so many Mehta performances that are clueless

A performance he did with the IPO of Brahms's 3d still remains in my memory
as one of my life's most traumatic experiences. I mean, what did Brahms
ever do to *him*?

: (his Mahler is shockingly low-IQ)

I'm not sure if "low-IQ" is how I'd put it, although he does have a
tendency to completely miss the point. It's more like he feels that *any*
musical gesture has to be exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness. That
really killed the 7th and 4th that I heard him do with the IPO. In the
case of the 4th, he wasn't helped much by a soprano whose German diction was,
let us say, insecure.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
Richard Bernas
2003-12-20 09:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz.
In the case of the performances you're talking about--perhaps even the
overwhelming majority of Mehta's performance--you're right. But he was very
different in the beginning. There is nothing bland about his recording of the
Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the L.A. Phil. Far less distinctive
and imaginative are the recordings with Solti, Karajan, and Boulez(both of
'em). (And Solti is supposed to have a special feeling for Schoenberg, Karajan
for pieces in the late Austro-German Romantic tradition, Boulez for
20th-century music.) I have never heard a performance of any piece that
sounded more Viennese.
-david gable
David's eulogy (I am going to have to hear that 2-fer) reminds me
that a recording producer who I won't name (still in the business, or
whatever is left of it) told me that Mehta froze into a
non-communicative Star Act when performing big media events. Thus his
NYPO Mahler 2 in front of PBS cameras would indeed be spectacularly
empty. Yet when he was working on Meistersinger at the Maggio Musicale
Fiorentino he would roll up his sleeves and teach the opera until the
orchestra damn well knew it. There is a musician operating in there.

Some of the time, at least.

Richard
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 03:14:42 UTC
Permalink
"ansermetniac" <***@optonline.net> wrote in message news:***@localhost...
| In article <brvvj7$8ao1e$***@ID-101911.news.uni-berlin.de>,
| ***@bigpond.com says...
| > "ansermetniac" <***@optonline.net> wrote in message
| > news:***@localhost...
| > | I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
| > | everyone to list theirs
| > |
| > | BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
| >
| > Mehta basher.
|
| And proud of it. Am I not allowed?

Of course. Just as you are allowed to jump in to Heck's (whatever his name
is) miserable reply, in the damned Solti thread, and make smart remarks.

Maybe I should be proud of disliking Solti too. But the reality is, I am
disgusted he ever made the podium at Orchestra Hall. If ever there was a
NON-musician, it was Solti.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
David7Gable
2003-12-20 03:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
If ever there was a
NON-musician, it was Solti.
I can imagine having a low opinion of Solti. He's no favorite of mine, that's
for sure. But a just plain non-musician? I'm a little surprised by the depth
of your animosity toward the guy, Ray. And while odds are good that in the
case of any given piece there will be another conductor I prefer to Solti, I
have heard a few performances that I genuinely admired, including a terrific
live Moses und Aron with the CSO in the mid-80's. Even a merely competent
performance of this piece would require a reasonably gifted musician, and
Solti's performance was far more than merely competent.

-david gable
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 04:02:02 UTC
Permalink
"David7Gable" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m12.aol.com...
| >If ever there was a
| >NON-musician, it was Solti.
|
| I can imagine having a low opinion of Solti. He's no favorite of mine,
that's
| for sure. But a just plain non-musician? I'm a little surprised by the
depth
| of your animosity toward the guy, Ray. And while odds are good that in
the
| case of any given piece there will be another conductor I prefer to Solti,
I
| have heard a few performances that I genuinely admired, including a
terrific
| live Moses und Aron with the CSO in the mid-80's. Even a merely competent
| performance of this piece would require a reasonably gifted musician, and
| Solti's performance was far more than merely competent.

He represents to me, the type of music making that completely offends the
way I like music to be played, in much the same way as you carry an intense
hatred of anything to do with HIP.

Different horses, for different courses. Solti was a three legged-one imo,
and followed the field, just as he followed the CSO.
<g>

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
Heck51
2003-12-20 16:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Raymond Hall wrote

"Of course. Just as you are allowed to jump in to Heck's (whatever his
name
is) miserable reply, in the damned Solti thread, and make smart
remarks."

so according to you - you get to voice your opinion, no matter how
off-the -mark and misinformed it might be, but if anyone disagrees,
then they are making "smart remarks"??

LOL!!
ansermetniac
2003-12-20 16:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heck51
"Of course. Just as you are allowed to jump in to Heck's (whatever his
name
is) miserable reply, in the damned Solti thread, and make smart
remarks."
so according to you - you get to voice your opinion, no matter how
off-the -mark and misinformed it might be, but if anyone disagrees,
then they are making "smart remarks"??
LOL!!
I did not disagree!!! I made a joke about reeds.

Just for accuracy's sake

Abbedd
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 22:43:39 UTC
Permalink
"Heck51" <***@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
| Raymond Hall wrote
|
| "Of course. Just as you are allowed to jump in to Heck's (whatever his
| name
| is) miserable reply, in the damned Solti thread, and make smart
| remarks."
|
| so according to you - you get to voice your opinion, no matter how
| off-the -mark and misinformed it might be, but if anyone disagrees,
| then they are making "smart remarks"??

Incorrect. You just happened to jump in on the remark about Solti being
bashed. As if anybody needed your opinion. According to YOU, I am off the
mark. According to YOU, I am misinformed. I'd take my ears over yours any
day of the week, especially as you find yourself having to depend such a
wretched conductor as Solti.

Now go and bash some poor pianist, or soloist, or Karajan, or whoever, but
just don't bash Solti. That is your message. Well, good for you. Your raw
nerve has been well and truly exposed, and tickled up. Pity, that it should
be about such a miserable specimen as Solti. And that is MY OPINION. It is
not mandatory to assume that for you, it is my judgement.

Now, shut up.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
Heck51
2003-12-21 05:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Raymond Hall wrote -

"As if anybody needed your opinion."

I don't need your permission to express my opinion, asshole.

"According to YOU, I am off the mark. According to YOU, I am
misinformed."

you're entitled to your negative opinion of solti, and I'm entitled to
regard that opinion as misguided, invalid and ignorant. you obviously
don't know much about orchestral performance. I do it for a living.

"I'd take my ears over yours any day of the week,"

That's good, because I wouldn't want yours, especially as you find
yourself having to knock such a splendid conductor as Solti.

"Now go and bash some poor pianist, or soloist, or Karajan, or
whoever,"

i'd rather bash some pompous ignorante...

"Your raw nerve has been well and truly exposed"

as has your stupidity and pompousness

"And that is MY OPINION."

Whoopee, my heart pumps purple piss...

"Now, shut up."

blow it out your bunghole...
Ray Hall
2003-12-21 07:06:44 UTC
Permalink
"Heck51" <***@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
| Raymond Hall wrote -
|
| "As if anybody needed your opinion."
|
| I don't need your permission to express my opinion, asshole.

My, my. We are getting into a little Solti-like tantrum, aren't we? Time for
another Karajan video.


| "According to YOU, I am off the mark. According to YOU, I am
| misinformed."
|
| you're entitled to your negative opinion of solti, and I'm entitled to
| regard that opinion as misguided, invalid and ignorant. you obviously
| don't know much about orchestral performance. I do it for a living.

Whether you do it for a living is neither here nor there. I, however, as a
listener, have to pay good money to buy CDs. And you are so rattled, and out
of control now, you are being to rave, just like your conductor hero. And we
obviously agree to disagree. SO what is there to get worked up about?

Asshole.


| "I'd take my ears over yours any day of the week,"
|
| That's good, because I wouldn't want yours, especially as you find
| yourself having to knock such a splendid conductor as Solti.

LOL. Whilst you knock an even greater and more spendiferous conductor in
Karajan. You must be dreaming, or taking magic mushrooms.


| "Now go and bash some poor pianist, or soloist, or Karajan, or
| whoever,"
|
| i'd rather bash some pompous ignorante...

Like yourself, for instance? Or Karajan? Or some poor pianist?


| "Your raw nerve has been well and truly exposed"
|
| as has your stupidity and pompousness

Only according to you, who can only call the kettle black, and dislikes the
fact that someone dislikes Solti.
Tuff. Get used to it. And watch another Karajan video, to find out all about
conducting.


| "And that is MY OPINION."
|
| Whoopee, my heart pumps purple piss...

Such purple prose. Karajan is recommended in order to regain CONTROL. Did
Solti teach you how to behave like the Screaming Skull, or did it come
naturally, or did someone bash one of your heros? Fascinating insight into a
musician losing control. Back to a Karajan video for you.


| "Now, shut up."
|
| blow it out your bunghole...

Idiot.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
Heck51
2003-12-21 15:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Ray Hall wrote [incoherently]

"Time for another Karajan video."

No I've had enough sleep for awhile!! LOL!!

Solti videos for you, you need to see a true master conductor at work.
you've obviously been deprived..

"I, however, as a listener, have to pay good money to buy CDs."

and you've obviously invested in some rather poor specimens...you've
paid good $$ for bad CDs it would seem??

You don't like it that somebody sees right thru your incompetence and
calls you on it. TS, deal with it.

anyone who conducts with their eyes closed is technically limited. but
we all know that anyway...:)

"Karajan is recommended in order to regain CONTROL."

no "control" is not adequate - stifling, enervated, thwarted,
suppressed are adjectives that are much more appropriate. HvK conducts
as tho he is driving a 5 speed Ferrari, and never gets it out of 4th
gear. LOL!!

and I will continue to call you on your mis-informed opinions -
everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, even hopelessly invalid
ones such as yours.
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-21 18:58:04 UTC
Permalink
***@mediaone.net (Heck51) appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:e87e1a2e.0312202125.47723256
Post by Heck51
Raymond Hall wrote -
"As if anybody needed your opinion."
I don't need your permission to express my opinion, asshole.
"According to YOU, I am off the mark. According to YOU, I am
misinformed."
you're entitled to your negative opinion of solti, and I'm entitled to
regard that opinion as misguided, invalid and ignorant. you obviously
don't know much about orchestral performance. I do it for a living.
"I'd take my ears over yours any day of the week,"
That's good, because I wouldn't want yours, especially as you find
yourself having to knock such a splendid conductor as Solti.
"Now go and bash some poor pianist, or soloist, or Karajan, or
whoever,"
i'd rather bash some pompous ignorante...
"Your raw nerve has been well and truly exposed"
as has your stupidity and pompousness
"And that is MY OPINION."
Whoopee, my heart pumps purple piss...
"Now, shut up."
blow it out your bunghole...
Welcome to the club. :--(
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Alan Hayward
2003-12-20 08:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz. I saw an all Mozart concert at the Hollywood Bowl. But at
least Schwarz did not push the surface of the Music to belabor his
point.
Which Schwarz are you referring to: Gerard or Rudolf?
ansermetniac
2003-12-20 10:43:39 UTC
Permalink
In article <bs12uv$p8a$***@sparta.btinternet.com>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by Alan Hayward
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz. I saw an all Mozart concert at the Hollywood Bowl. But at
least Schwarz did not push the surface of the Music to belabor his
point.
Which Schwarz are you referring to: Gerard or Rudolf?
Gerard


Abbedd
David7Gable
2003-12-20 19:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Hayward
Post by Alan Hayward
Which Schwarz are you referring to: Gerard or Rudolf?
Gerard
His performance of the trumpet solo at the opening of Carter's Symphony of
Three Orchestras, which depicts a gull soaring and planing above the New York
harbor at dawn, is not to be believed. Sensational in fact. (Sony w/Boulez,
NY Phil)

-david gable
REG
2003-12-20 22:32:06 UTC
Permalink
But he is a complete non-musician as a conductor. He doesn't begin to have
the musicianship that he did as a trumpet player, for some reason.
Post by David7Gable
Post by Alan Hayward
Post by Alan Hayward
Which Schwarz are you referring to: Gerard or Rudolf?
Gerard
His performance of the trumpet solo at the opening of Carter's Symphony of
Three Orchestras, which depicts a gull soaring and planing above the New York
harbor at dawn, is not to be believed. Sensational in fact. (Sony w/Boulez,
NY Phil)
-david gable
ulvi
2003-12-21 02:48:11 UTC
Permalink
My top 3

Bernstein
Gielen
Harnoncourt

Closely trailing them are the following (I am unable to pick
any two apart from the rest):

Ancerl
Bruggen
Giulini
Jochum
the Kleibers
Klemperer
Skrowaczewski
Walter


Ulvi
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 21:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
Post by Raymond Hall
| I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
| everyone to list theirs
|
| BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Mehta basher.
And proud of it. Am I not allowed? I had a sub in 1981 for the NY Phil.
The late Gil Cohen 2nd trombone for about 20 years starting in 1963 said
Solti is the biggest phoney on the podium. Wrong. Zubin is. Just because
someone makes records and is the Music director of a major symphony does
not mean he is a good conductor. The NY Phil sounded like a fifth rate
orchestra under Mehta. Are you aware that 4 others turned down the job
before Mehta was picked. The audiences loved him. The critics hated him
and the record companies would not record him
The NY Phil sounded like a 5th rate
orchestra under anyone besides Lenny.
Post by ansermetniac
The only other conductor that competes with Mehta for blandness is
Schwarz. I saw an all Mozart concert at the Hollywood Bowl. But at
least Schwarz did not push the surface of the Music to belabor his
point.
Then you must not have heard Dohnaniy.



dk
David7Gable
2003-12-20 02:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
| BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
You might change your mind if you heard his best performances from the 60's. I
will admit that he hasn't done much for me for decades.

-david gable
ansermetniac
2003-12-20 02:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Raymond Hall
| BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
You might change your mind if you heard his best performances from the 60's. I
will admit that he hasn't done much for me for decades.
-david gable
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?

Abbedd
David7Gable
2003-12-20 03:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I used to feel exactly
as you do about Mehta until I heard a couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from
the 60's. I thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do nothing
for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and Domingo.

-david gable
David7Gable
2003-12-20 03:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
I really am losing it. My answer to all three questions is "I don't know."

-david gable
Spam Scone
2003-12-20 10:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I used to feel exactly
as you do about Mehta until I heard a couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from
the 60's. I thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do nothing
for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and Domingo.
-david gable
David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So far we have:

Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna

To which I would add:
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
s***@nospamprovide.net
2003-12-20 14:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I used to feel exactly
as you do about Mehta until I heard a couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from
the 60's. I thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do nothing
for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and Domingo.
-david gable
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
Andante teneramente
2003-12-20 15:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@nospamprovide.net
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by
stardom? Was his LA Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I
used to feel exactly as you do about Mehta until I heard a
couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from the 60's. I
thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do
nothing for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and
Domingo. -david gable
David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
His "Turandot" (Puccini's) is very good. That seems to be the
only CD of him that I have.

BTW: Though I, among others, posted the "Screaming Skull"
nickname of Solti, I'm not a Solti basher. There are many of his
CDs that I enjoy (Mahler, Wagner, Verdi...)
--
Regards
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-20 18:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andante teneramente
Post by s***@nospamprovide.net
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by
stardom? Was his LA Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I
used to feel exactly as you do about Mehta until I heard a
couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from the 60's. I
thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do
nothing for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and
Domingo. -david gable
David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
His "Turandot" (Puccini's) is very good. That seems to be the
only CD of him that I have.
BTW: Though I, among others, posted the "Screaming Skull"
nickname of Solti, I'm not a Solti basher. There are many of his
CDs that I enjoy (Mahler, Wagner, Verdi...)
I would add:

Barber, Essay #3 (or is it "Third Essay"), NYP on New World
Jacob Druckman, "Prism," NYP on New World
Mahler Sym. #2, VPO 1975 on Decca (the coupling for the Schmidt)
His VPO New Year's Concerts, 1990 especially, also 1995 and 1998

Also some stuff from LP that I'm going to have to try to replace; some of
it is available on Australian Eloquence, which is a slap in the face to us
USA residents. His Stravinsky and Richard Strauss was generally pretty
good, but there was also a fabulous Bill Kraft "Contextures."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
HenryFogel
2003-12-20 18:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Two of his finest recordings would be, IMHO, the Schmidt Fourth Symphony on
London (Vienna Phil), and the DG Fanciulla del West, with Domingo and Neblett -
which is thrillingly conducted. I also think his Turandot recording is by far
the best-conducted, though Sutherland doesn't match up to Nilsson's level.

Another pair of surprises are the two symphonies of John Knowles Paine he
recorded for New World - quite gripping performances.
Henry Fogel
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-20 18:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by HenryFogel
Two of his finest recordings would be, IMHO, the Schmidt Fourth Symphony
on London (Vienna Phil), and the DG Fanciulla del West, with Domingo and
Neblett - which is thrillingly conducted. I also think his Turandot
recording is by far the best-conducted, though Sutherland doesn't match
up to Nilsson's level.
Those were already mentioned in the thread, which is why my listing was
headed with the words, "I would add." ;--)
Post by HenryFogel
Another pair of surprises are the two symphonies of John Knowles Paine
he recorded for New World - quite gripping performances.
Henry Fogel
You know, I've got #2, but I've never gotten into it, unlike Paine's Mass
in D, a near-masterpiece.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Bob Harper
2003-12-20 18:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andante teneramente
Post by s***@nospamprovide.net
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by
stardom? Was his LA Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I
used to feel exactly as you do about Mehta until I heard a
couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from the 60's. I
thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do
nothing for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and
Domingo. -david gable
David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
His "Turandot" (Puccini's) is very good. That seems to be the
only CD of him that I have.
BTW: Though I, among others, posted the "Screaming Skull"
nickname of Solti, I'm not a Solti basher. There are many of his
CDs that I enjoy (Mahler, Wagner, Verdi...)
The VPO Mahler 2nd, to which the above-mentioned Schmidt 4th is coupled
on a Double Decca, is one of the better recordings of that work. And I
remember Tony Movshon praising the *sound* of the Mahler 3rd (LAPO,
again on a Double Decca), while agreeing that the performance was not
the last word.

Bob Harper
Richard S. Sandmeyer
2003-12-20 19:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andante teneramente
Post by s***@nospamprovide.net
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by
stardom? Was his LA Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I
used to feel exactly as you do about Mehta until I heard a
couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from the 60's. I
thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do
nothing for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and
Domingo. -david gable
David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
His "Turandot" (Puccini's) is very good. That seems to be the
only CD of him that I have.
BTW: Though I, among others, posted the "Screaming Skull"
nickname of Solti, I'm not a Solti basher. There are many of his
CDs that I enjoy (Mahler, Wagner, Verdi...)
The VPO Mahler 2nd, to which the above-mentioned Schmidt 4th is coupled
on a Double Decca, is one of the better recordings of that work. And I
remember Tony Movshon praising the *sound* of the Mahler 3rd (LAPO,
again on a Double Decca), while agreeing that the performance was not
the last word.
Bob Harper
I'd add Mehta's recordings of:
R. Strauss: Alpine Symphony with LAPO
Dvorak: Symphony No. 7 with IPO
Scriabin: Poem of Ecstasy with LAPO
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich.sand at verizon dot net
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 22:50:29 UTC
Permalink
"Andante teneramente" <***@gmx.de> wrote in message news:***@127.0.0.1...
| ***@nospamprovide.net wrote
|
| > On 20 Dec 2003 02:05:06 -0800, ***@hotmail.com
| > (Spam Scone) wrote:
| >
| >>***@aol.com (David7Gable) wrote in message
| >>news:<***@mb-m12.aol.com>...
| >>> >What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by
| >>> >stardom? Was his LA Planets in the 60s?
| >>>
| >>> My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I
| >>> used to feel exactly as you do about Mehta until I heard a
| >>> couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from the 60's. I
| >>> thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do
| >>> nothing for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and
| >>> Domingo. -david gable
| >>
| >>David, let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
| >>far we have:
| >>
| >>Trovatore on RCA
| >>Schoenberg with LA
| >>Schmidt #4 with Vienna
| >>
| >>To which I would add:
| >>Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
| >>Holst Planets with LA
| >>Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
| >>John Williams film music with LA
| >
| >
| > You may also wish to add Bruckner's 9th on Decca.
|
| His "Turandot" (Puccini's) is very good. That seems to be the
| only CD of him that I have.

Absolutely. A really wonderful performance of Turandot. Agree with regards
to other's comments about Schmidt's 4th, and the combination with the VPO is
wonderful. As regards the coupling of the Mahler 2nd, it isn't bad by any
means, but not to my ears as wonderful as others make out here.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
David7Gable
2003-12-20 18:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Sadly, the Trovatore is NOT on my list. His Mahler 2nd with the VPO is. (And,
as I never tire of saying, his LA Phil Schoenberg.)

-david gable
Heck51
2003-12-20 20:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Spam Scone wrote let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
far we have:

He has two fine recordings of Le Sacre -
his 60s sound spectacular with LAPO on london, and

his NYPO one on Sony, from the 1977. both excellent,

He did a wonderful Strauss disc with the BPO in 1990, on Sony -
music from the later Operas - die Frau ohne Schatten, Liebe der Danae,
Intermezzo, Rosenkavalier.
this is a great disc - seldom heard, delightful music played
beautifully by the BPO which is in great form. none of the soggy,
stifled HvK stuff - overly rounded, monotone business - the orchestra
sounds terrific.

I found it in a cutout bin - grab it if you see it...
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 21:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heck51
Spam Scone wrote let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
He has two fine recordings of Le Sacre -
his 60s sound spectacular with LAPO on london, and
his NYPO one on Sony, from the 1977. both excellent,
He did a wonderful Strauss disc with the BPO in 1990, on Sony -
music from the later Operas - die Frau ohne Schatten, Liebe der Danae,
Intermezzo, Rosenkavalier.
this is a great disc - seldom heard, delightful music played
beautifully by the BPO which is in great form. none of the soggy,
stifled HvK stuff - overly rounded, monotone business - the orchestra
sounds terrific.
I found it in a cutout bin - grab it if you see it...
Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s
with the Vienna Symphony is tops.

And so is the Mahler 1st with the
IPO. They're both on Decca (LP).



dk
HenryFogel
2003-12-20 22:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s
with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Isn't it the Vienna Philharmonic?
Henry Fogel
Ramon Khalona
2003-12-21 02:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by HenryFogel
Post by Dan Koren
Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s
with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Isn't it the Vienna Philharmonic?
Henry Fogel
Yes, it's the VPO and it's a good recording.

RK
s***@nospamprovide.net
2003-12-21 03:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by HenryFogel
Post by Dan Koren
Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s
with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Isn't it the Vienna Philharmonic?
Henry Fogel
Yes,.......


S.
Dan Koren
2003-12-21 08:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by HenryFogel
Post by Dan Koren
Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s
with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Isn't it the Vienna Philharmonic?
Henry Fogel
You're right. And it's just
sitting under my mouse!



dk
Richard Schultz
2003-12-21 08:02:24 UTC
Permalink
In article <3fe4c52f$***@news.meer.net>, Dan Koren <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

: Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s with the Vienna Symphony is tops.

Vienna Symphony or Vienna Philharmonic?

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"[Horenstein] couldn't control an orchestra if his reputation depended on it,
which it didn't."
-- spoken by an anonymous "fan"
Dan Koren
2003-12-21 08:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Schultz
: Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Vienna Symphony or Vienna Philharmonic?
VPO -- sorry for the misteak ;-)



dk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-12-21 13:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Richard Schultz
: Mehta's Bruckner 9th from the '60s with the Vienna Symphony is tops.
Vienna Symphony or Vienna Philharmonic?
VPO -- sorry for the misteak ;-)
dk
I suppose you meant "mistake".

You go from one gaff to another.

TD
Your Pal Brian
2003-12-20 23:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heck51
Spam Scone wrote let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
He did a live Beethoven show for RCA with the New York Phil.

The Ninth with Price, Horne, Vickers, Salminen, was just pretty good, but
the Choral Fantasy after it was great over the top fun. Emmanuel Ax was
soloist.

It's the great chorus work on both that really makes it, so I guess you
could credit Mr. Flummerfelt over Mr. Mehta.

I think it's OOP.

Brian
Neil Brennen
2003-12-21 01:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Your Pal Brian
Post by Heck51
Spam Scone wrote let's get together a list of the "best" of Mehta. So
He did a live Beethoven show for RCA with the New York Phil.
The Ninth with Price, Horne, Vickers, Salminen, was just pretty good,
I thought it ordinary - and of all works, Beethoven's Ninth should NOT be
ordinary!

but
Post by Your Pal Brian
the Choral Fantasy after it was great over the top fun. Emmanuel Ax was
soloist.
A couple of weeks ago I said that the only Ax recordings I can listen to are
his Chopin concertos with Ormandy. I forgot this one.
Post by Your Pal Brian
It's the great chorus work on both that really makes it, so I guess you
could credit Mr. Flummerfelt over Mr. Mehta.
I think it's OOP.
Brian
The Choral Fantasie has just been reissued in a box set with Ax's boring set
of the Beethoven Concertos with Previn.
Brendan R. Wehrung
2003-12-20 22:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I used to feel exactly
as you do about Mehta until I heard a couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from
the 60's. I thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do nothing
for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and Domingo.
-david gable
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
Ives 1st.

Brendan
--
ulvi
2003-12-21 02:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spam Scone
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
What's wrong with the Mahler 2 coupled with that Schmidt 4?
It's one of my top 3 or 4 favorites.

Ulvi
ajb723
2003-12-21 03:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ulvi
Post by Spam Scone
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
What's wrong with the Mahler 2 coupled with that Schmidt 4?
It's one of my top 3 or 4 favorites.
Ulvi
His Mahler #2 w/ NYPhil which is part of the NYPhil Mahler broadcast set is
very well played and much better than the Mahler 2 he did a couple of
seasons ago.
--
Alan
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-21 18:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by ajb723
Post by ulvi
Post by Spam Scone
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
What's wrong with the Mahler 2 coupled with that Schmidt 4?
It's one of my top 3 or 4 favorites.
Ulvi
His Mahler #2 w/ NYPhil which is part of the NYPhil Mahler broadcast set
is very well played and much better than the Mahler 2 he did a couple of
seasons ago.
There are at least a couple of recordings of the Mahler 2nd with the Israel
Philharmonic.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Eric Nagamine
2003-12-21 13:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spam Scone
Post by David7Gable
Post by ansermetniac
What happened to Zubin after the 60s? Ego caused by stardom? Was his LA
Planets in the 60s?
My answer to all three questions. All I can say is that I used to feel exactly
as you do about Mehta until I heard a couple of his L.A. Phil recordings from
the 60's. I thought they were terrific. I can name far more that do nothing
for me, including his RCA Trovatore with Price and Domingo.
-david gable
Trovatore on RCA
Schoenberg with LA
Schmidt #4 with Vienna
Beethoven Emperor with Brendel on Vox
Holst Planets with LA
Also Sprach Zarathustra with LA
John Williams film music with LA
Mahler 5th/NYP Teldec
Mahler 2nd/NYP NYP Editions
Mahler 3rd/LAPO Decca
Mahler 6th/VPO En Larmes (Bootleg) 1st performance of the Kubik/IGM 1998
edition
Puccini Turandot Decca
Corigliano Clarinet Concerto w/Drucker/NYP New World
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,

Eric Nagamine
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/mahlerb/broadcaststartpage.html
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-21 18:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Nagamine
Corigliano Clarinet Concerto w/Drucker/NYP New World
I have this, and might have included it with my other addenda, but then I've
got the premiere with Lenny, and Zubie just don't compare here.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Marc Perman
2003-12-19 23:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
Mine:

Monteux
Furtwangler
Fricsay
Bernstein
Mravinsky

Marc Perman
Bob Reith
2003-12-20 00:00:12 UTC
Permalink
(Alphabetical)
Kertesz
Carlos Kleiber
Erich Kleiber
Kubelik
Munch

Bob
Alan Hayward
2003-12-19 23:54:13 UTC
Permalink
That's rather like asking for "your five favourite operas" or "top five
films" - the list is never the same two days running. Furthermore,
repertoire is a major factor. That said:

John Barbirolli
Adrian Boult
Thomas Beecham
Guido Cantelli
Bruno Walter

That's my list as it stands tonight. But tomorrow . . .

And, yes, Zubin is near the bottom. On any day, or night.
Barry Zukerman
2003-12-20 03:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Furtwangler is my favorite, with two through five being (in no particular order):

Fricsay
Mravinsky
Jochum
Walter (especially with the NY Phil during the 40's and early 50's)
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 03:33:12 UTC
Permalink
"Alan Hayward" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:bs0335$21r$***@titan.btinternet.com...
| That's rather like asking for "your five favourite operas" or "top five
| films" - the list is never the same two days running. Furthermore,
| repertoire is a major factor. That said:
|
| John Barbirolli
| Adrian Boult
| Thomas Beecham
| Guido Cantelli
| Bruno Walter
|
| That's my list as it stands tonight. But tomorrow . . .
With the same conditions as above applying :-

Bruno Walter
John Barbirolli
Karel Ancerl
Igor Markevitch
Herbert von Karajan

With Carlo Maria Giulini as substitute on the bench.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
benjo maso
2003-12-20 00:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
Furtwängler
Mengelberg
Scherchen
Stokowsky
Markevitch

Benjo Maso
allankohrman
2003-12-20 00:26:31 UTC
Permalink
I choose

Szell
Reiner
Walter
Ancerl
Monteux

I understand your complaints about Mehta, but we in the Boston area had to
put up with bland, mediocre Ozawa for a quarter of a century.

Allan Kohrman
Newton, MA
ansermetniac
2003-12-20 00:44:53 UTC
Permalink
In article <WGMEb.605707$***@attbi_s04>, ***@comcast.net
says...
Post by allankohrman
I choose
Szell
Reiner
Walter
Ancerl
Monteux
I understand your complaints about Mehta, but we in the Boston area had to
put up with bland, mediocre Ozawa for a quarter of a century.
Allan Kohrman
Newton, MA
But I assume ticket sales were adequate during the Ozawa era. And he did
record.

At least you now have Levine. And we have Hillary :-)

Abbedd
Stephen Worth
2003-12-20 02:35:01 UTC
Permalink
My top five favorite conductors are...

Stokowski
Furtwangler
Szell
Walter
Reiner

See ya
Steve
--
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David7Gable
2003-12-20 02:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Five? That's way to small a number, and it also very much depends on the
repertory. The conductor I find the most impressive in by far the broadest
range of repertory may well be Bruno Maderna.

These may be my five favorite conductors of Italian opera:

Renato Cellini
Vittorio Gui
Ettore Panizza
Francesco Molinari-Pradelli
Antonino Votto

If I were feeling charitable, I'd add Toscanini on the basis of most of his
Verdi.

-david gable
Sgolescu
2003-12-20 02:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Very hard to limit to five. . . The first four may well be:

Willem Mengelberg
Constantin Silvestri
Wilhelm Furtwangler
Nikolai Golovanov

For the fifth it's just too tough -- probably de Sabata or Klemperer or
Koussevitzky or Stokowski or Munch or Maderna or. . . I can't say, so don't
tell me I cheated. . .

regards,
SG
tag gallagher
2003-12-20 16:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Busch
Furtwangler
Kleiber (E.)
Mengelberg
Toscanini
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 21:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sgolescu
Willem Mengelberg
Constantin Silvestri
Wilhelm Furtwangler
Nikolai Golovanov
For the fifth it's just too tough -- probably de Sabata or Klemperer or
Koussevitzky or Stokowski or Munch or Maderna or. . . I can't say, so don't
tell me I cheated. . .
regards,
SG
no Celibidache ?!?

Fascist! ;-)



dk
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 21:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sgolescu
Willem Mengelberg
Constantin Silvestri
Wilhelm Furtwangler
Nikolai Golovanov
For the fifth it's just too tough -- probably de Sabata or Klemperer or
Koussevitzky or Stokowski or Munch or Maderna or. . . I can't say, so don't
tell me I cheated. . .
regards,
SG
In this order:


Celibidache
Mengelberg
Horenstein
Berstein
Barbirolli



dk
Brian Stewart
2003-12-20 21:48:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Five? That's way to small a number, and it also very much depends on the
repertory. The conductor I find the most impressive in by far the broadest
range of repertory may well be Bruno Maderna.
Renato Cellini
Vittorio Gui
Ettore Panizza
Francesco Molinari-Pradelli
Antonino Votto
If I were feeling charitable, I'd add Toscanini on the basis of most of his
Verdi.
Hmmm...Praise the little tigers, and slight the big tiger? ;-)

Cheers!

Brian
Post by David7Gable
-david gable
notrump15-17
2003-12-20 04:35:53 UTC
Permalink
In alphabetical order:
Monteux
Reiner
Szell
Toscanini
Van Beinum
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Abbedd
Rick Cavalla
2003-12-20 04:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Standard disclaimer about this changing from day to day:

(in alphabetical order)
Bernstein
Gardiner
Harnoncourt
Jarvi, Paavo
Klemperer

I must admit to being motivated far more by repertoire than conductors. I
do not have anywhere near the passionate devotion to these men that many of
you have for your favorite conductors...

--
Rick Cavalla
***@NO.erols.SPAM.com
==========================
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 05:08:19 UTC
Permalink
"Rick Cavalla" <***@NO.erols.SPAM.com> wrote in message news:3fe3d589$0$4741$***@news.rcn.com...
| Standard disclaimer about this changing from day to day:
|
| (in alphabetical order)
| Bernstein
| Gardiner
| Harnoncourt
| Jarvi, Paavo
| Klemperer
|
| I must admit to being motivated far more by repertoire than conductors. I
| do not have anywhere near the passionate devotion to these men that many
of
| you have for your favorite conductors...

Snap. Exactly my real feelings. I am also purely repertoire driven. But in
the core classical/romantic repertoire, then my list applies. Nobody gets
closer to the ideal (my ideal) in the central repertoire than Bruno Walter
for balance, proportion, scale, and just about everything else (which covers
almost everything).

I will admit to being on the verge of springing for Harnoncourt's late
Mozart symphonies with the Concertgebouw. Should complement Walter nicely. I
also note that Harnoncourt's LvB symphonies are at bargain price now, but
was wondering .... about that 7th of his, and the very fast clickety-click
final movement.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
Bill McCutcheon
2003-12-20 05:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
I will admit to being on the verge of springing for Harnoncourt's late
Mozart symphonies with the Concertgebouw.
Available at Berkshire ... see my reply to your post in the "Final
purchases" thread.
Post by Raymond Hall
I also note that Harnoncourt's LvB symphonies are at bargain price
now, but
Post by Raymond Hall
was wondering .... about that 7th of his, and the very fast
clickety-click
Post by Raymond Hall
final movement.
Also at Berkshire in a 10-CD set with the VC, a mass or two, and some
other stuff.

-- Bill McC.
Raymond Hall
2003-12-20 05:42:34 UTC
Permalink
"Bill McCutcheon" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:V7REb.5877$***@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
|
| "Raymond Hall" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
| news:bs0li1$8678g$***@ID-101911.news.uni-berlin.de...
| >
| > I will admit to being on the verge of springing for Harnoncourt's
| late
| > Mozart symphonies with the Concertgebouw.
|
| Available at Berkshire ... see my reply to your post in the "Final
| purchases" thread.

I did. Thanks for the details. Am looking to see whether there are other
sources closer to me. Zweitausendeins have the Harnoncourt Beethoven set at
a pretty good price, and I have always had good service from them.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW
August Helmbright
2003-12-20 05:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
I don't know how to list only 5 favorites, so I'll just list those
whose recordings take up the most space in my collection - voting with
my pocketbook as it were. Those are (also alphabetically):

Furtwängler
Karajan
Klemperer
Toscanini
Walter

That being said, I'll give you that Cantelli was something special -
probably by a good margin the best his generation had to offer (and
Karajan was no slouch, the r.m.c.r. bashers opinions notwithstanding).
Unfortunately, due to his untimely death, he didn't leave enough
recordings for me to be able to have as many of his than of those I
listed.

I quite agree on Zubin (yawn).
William Quentin (bloom)
2003-12-20 06:06:29 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:32:21 GMT, ansermetniac
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Abbedd
Hmm, favorites?

I suppose my list would be something like this:

Barenboim
Bernstein
Boulez
Stokowski
Szell

I guess I'm just a philistine. ;-)

-Billy
David M. Cook
2003-12-20 12:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
Like others here, I'm more repetoire driven. So, for instance, I really
like Karajan in the things I like Karajan in (e.g. Sibelius), but wouldn't
think of collecting his recordings generally. I don't even have any of his
Beethoven. A preliminary list:

Ancerl
Bernstein
Bohm
Furtwangler
Klemperer

Dave Cook
Mr Duffy
2003-12-20 13:29:20 UTC
Permalink
ansermetniac
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Pity, only five...

Kirill Mravinsky
Ferenc Markevitch
Karel Kubelik
Bruno Scherchen
Sergiu Furtwaengler

Hi, Mr Duffy

--
Loading Image...
Michael Lehrman
2003-12-20 15:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
As of today in alphabetical order:

Furtwangler
Haitink
Monteux
Munch
Szell

ML (not a conductor)
Heck51
2003-12-20 16:29:57 UTC
Permalink
5 is way too small a number -

Reiner
Toscanini
Solti
Bernstein

Walter
Szell
Mravinsky
Abbado
Levine
Monteux
Martinon
Heck51
2003-12-20 17:51:12 UTC
Permalink
ansermetniac wrote

"BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it."

actually, a list of least favorites might be easier:

by least favorites, I simply mean I don't buy recordings by these
conductors - I either don't like the sound they get from the
orchestra, or I don't respond to their musical approach. I wouldn't
claim that any are incompetent, [well maybe one...;)]

von Karajan
Haitink
Leinsdorf
Munch
Celibadache
allankohrman
2003-12-20 19:07:27 UTC
Permalink
I have enjoyed the commentary on Solti, whom I find vastly overrated. I do
like his Mahler 2nd with Harper and Watts, and his Miraculous Mandarin, both
recording near the beginning of the year. And I enjoy his Cosi and Schubert
9th from the end. Otherwise he seemed like a high school band director, who
thought the louder his band played, the better.

Allan Kohrman
Newton, MA
j.winter@xs4all.nl (Jan Winter)
2003-12-20 21:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Mengelberg
Klemperer
Golovanov
Monteux
Talich
etc

--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
< j.winter<delete this>@xs<delete this>4all.nl >
Dan Koren
2003-12-20 21:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
I don't even consider your top 5
as conductors -- except perhaps
for trains. They are all very
grossly overrated. I am quite
surprised your list does not
include HvK and Bruno Walter .




dk
Sgolescu
2003-12-20 22:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
Ansermet
Post by ansermetniac
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
I don't even consider your top 5
as conductors -- except perhaps
for trains. They are all very
grossly overrated. I am quite
surprised your list does not
include HvK and Bruno Walter .
From the dear Ansertmaniac's list my favorite is Casals. At his best he was
actually a better conductor than cellist but I understand this may be construed
as a controversial statement. . . ( :

And Bruno Walter was greater than all names in this post. You have a black spot
when it comes to Walter because you praise passion over tenderness as it is
obvious when you talk pianists. If I knew Mrs. Koren I would have a couple of
pointed questions to ask her. . . "Mrs. Koren, is your husband ever listening
to Preludes or always going right away for the Fugue?"



regards,
SG
ansermetniac
2003-12-21 02:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
I don't even consider your top 5
as conductors -- except perhaps
for trains. They are all very
grossly overrated. I am quite
surprised your list does not
include HvK and Bruno Walter .
dk
\
HVK is Nazi so I have stayed away. I do have the Brain Mozart Concertos.
I have a lot of Walter to hear Chambers play horn. The 1949 Eroica loses
it's forward monentum in the Funeral March. I guess Dr. Schleshinger was
melting. I have his rehearsal of the Pastoral. All he cares about is the
length of the notes (long, short) and whether they are late or early.
Never does he sing the architecture of the phrase he wants or ask for
anything that has to do with sound or emotion. I pass.

Abbedd
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-21 18:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
HVK is Nazi so I have stayed away. I do have the Brain Mozart Concertos.
I have a lot of Walter to hear Chambers play horn. The 1949 Eroica loses
it's forward monentum in the Funeral March. I guess Dr. Schleshinger was
melting.
Ooh, two references at once. Very good!
Post by ansermetniac
I have his rehearsal of the Pastoral. All he cares about is the length of
the notes (long, short) and whether they are late or early. Never does
he sing the architecture of the phrase he wants or ask for anything that
has to do with sound or emotion. I pass.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
EG
2003-12-21 07:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
I don't even consider your top 5
as conductors -- except perhaps
for trains.
Toscanini's LvB#7 is unsurpassed.
Other people no doubt will jump at your throat.
Besides, Toscanini did make the trains run on time,
didn't he?...



They are all very
Post by Dan Koren
grossly overrated. I am quite
surprised your list does not
include HvK and Bruno Walter .
dk
EG
2003-12-21 04:12:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Abbedd
With so many top 5 lists posted, amazingly I haven't seen Kna.

So my list would be:

Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts

Though perhaps the only one of these guys who doesn't face the threat of
expulsion from the top 5 and seems to be secure at the top is Mengelberg.
Sgolescu
2003-12-21 04:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by benjo maso
Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts
Oh, please. This is a decent newsgroup.

regards,
SG
Brendan R. Wehrung
2003-12-21 06:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sgolescu
Post by benjo maso
Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts
Oh, please. This is a decent newsgroup.
regards,
SG
You mean the one where we familarly refer to Klemp and Motz?

Brendan
--
REG
2003-12-21 14:12:41 UTC
Permalink
I am surprised no one had mentioned Casals as a conductor. I'd have a hard
time limiting it to five, although certainly Furt, Mengel and Maderna would
be on the list, but Casals has some wonderful recordings. Perhaps it's that
he didn't record that much.
Post by Sgolescu
Post by benjo maso
Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts
Oh, please. This is a decent newsgroup.
regards,
SG
j.winter@xs4all.nl (Jan Winter)
2003-12-21 15:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by REG
I am surprised no one had mentioned Casals as a conductor. I'd have a hard
time limiting it to five, although certainly Furt, Mengel and Maderna would
be on the list, but Casals has some wonderful recordings. Perhaps it's that
he didn't record that much.
You better read the very first post in this thread again.

--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
< j.winter<delete this>@xs<delete this>4all.nl >
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-12-21 18:58:13 UTC
Permalink
j.winter<delete this>@xs<delete this>4all.nl (Jan Winter) appears to have
caused the following letters to be typed in news:3fe5bf6f.17167617
Post by ***@xs4all.nl (Jan Winter)
Post by REG
I am surprised no one had mentioned Casals as a conductor. I'd have a
hard time limiting it to five, although certainly Furt, Mengel and
Maderna would be on the list, but Casals has some wonderful recordings.
Perhaps it's that he didn't record that much.
You better read the very first post in this thread again.
What? REG missed the obvious? Imagine that!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Larry Friedman
2003-12-21 17:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sgolescu
Post by benjo maso
Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts
Oh, please. This is a decent newsgroup.
regards,
SG
Lately I've begun to wonder, Samir. As I read through this thread, I
actually had to look up and assure myself that I was indeed in rmcr, not
rmo. The verbal antics in that group would embarrass a child, and I thought
we were above that here. I guess I was wrong.

First of all, what more contentious question can there be than, "Who are
your five favorite ------?" Can you think of another question what would
invite every poor soul who reads this group to add in his 2¢, only to make
every other poor soul chime in with, "Oh no, they are -------."? One would
think that wise people would avoid a question like that, but no. This has
been going on for only a couple of days, yet 64 people have felt the
necessity to pop in and add a word or two - or three or four and five
hundred. And all for what? To prove himself right and others wrong. The
dumbest question I can think of in music is, "How can you like -----?" This
reeks of an egotism that is really hard to swallow. What the person is
saying is, "I don't like that person, and I'm right. Therefore, you can't
be."

For a moment I had thought of adding my words to the thread, but I didn't
because 1) I could not whittle down my list to a mere five, and 2) the
discussion is ridiculous. For it to have the least merit, each person's list
would have to be accompanied by a long paragraph (at least) explaining why
that conductor is on the list. To say that I admire - say - Scherchen, while
you admire Mengelberg is meaningless and accomplishes nothing. What would we
be saying this for? Are we trying to convince each other of the merits of
our own fair-haired boys, or are we trying to vaunt our knowledge, which, by
our own definition, must be larger than anyone else's. I know! Why don't I
run off to Holmes' "Conductors on Record" and find the most esoteric
conductor who ever made a record and throw that at you? That'll wow you for
sure. That is the level of the discussions here. Some of the remarks made
here are well founded, but it's become "Who are the five best conductors?"
and not, "Whom do you like?" What started off as a potentially interesting
comparison of favorites has now - as it always does - become a battle of the
strong-willed, strong-worded egostists.

In most cases, all I could well up after reading a posting was, "OK, that's
interesting." On a few occasions I would agree, and on others I would
not.... But, what does it prove? In this case, it proves that many readers
here haven't the least notion what music or the arts are all about. The arts
are not about what I say; they are about what is said.

One of my favorite stories concerns a trip to Academy Records in New York. I
was looking through thre vocal section listed alphabetically by singer's
last name. A man came in, walked directly toward me, stood next to me and
sighed and huffed to show me his displeasure that I was clearly in HIS spot.
Finally, he couldn't control himself any longer. "Have you been through the
Fs yet?" "Yes, I have." "Did you notice anything new by Ferrier?" "No, I
didn't, but, frankly, even if I had, I don't think I would have remembered
it." What?" he yelled, his eyebrows rising to hairline level, "you don't
like Ferrier?" "No, not really." "WELL!" he sputtered, "you're wrong, that's
all. WRONG!" The conversation had reached a level beyond ridiculousness, and
the man fell off the end of the earth right in front of my eyes.

To my colleagues in this group: No one is "wrong" here. We are all "right".
Get off your soap boxes. You look silly up there. Let's get back to more
interesting stuff.
Sgolescu
2003-12-21 19:04:12 UTC
Permalink
[posted and mailed]
Post by Larry Friedman
Post by Sgolescu
Post by benjo maso
Mengelberg
Furtwangler
Toscanini
Knappertsbusch
Busch without knapperts
Oh, please. This is a decent newsgroup.
regards,
SG
Lately I've begun to wonder, Samir. As I read through this thread, I
actually had to look up and assure myself that I was indeed in rmcr, not
rmo. The verbal antics in that group would embarrass a child, and I thought
we were above that here. I guess I was wrong.
I don't know whether my posting prompted this or if you only "took the
opportunity" but, Larry, in case you thought that my jibe about the "decent
newsgroup" was meant to demean the "list" the previous poster had offered, that
was definitely not the case. In fact, let me assure you that that "oh, please,
this is a decent newsgroup" was not meant to dismiss a list with four
conductors which I think very great and one which I think was great
(Toscanini), but ONLY a mild innocent joke following the "Busch without
knapperts" thing, which I found hilarious in itself -- it sounded a bit like
"Buch without Lederhosen" or something. (I love it when I need to explain jokes
( :)
Post by Larry Friedman
For it to have the least merit, each person's list
would have to be accompanied by a long paragraph (at least) explaining why
that conductor is on the list.
I respectfully disagree. Unless one gets into the "my conductor is cooler than
your conductor" game, which I agree is infantile, these lists, even bare as
they are, can provide helpful. Forget Furtwangler and Toscanini. Imagine I see
a less-known Italian conductor I don't really know, don't know, say Gui, on
five "lists" of music lovers I respect. At least I will keep an eye open for
Guy and, with the first occasion, I will make up my mind.

Hadn't I seen a couple of rmcr-sters -- David Gable primarily but others as
well -- obstinately referring to Bruno Maderna as one of the unrecognized
greats -- with or, more often, without explanations -- I'd probably never
bothered to "try him out" in the first place.

While I agree with your thesis that abuse leads to nothing constructive, I
don't see these threads in a totally negative light either.

Don't be hurt, in a list of the "favorite ten" Scherchen would probably make it
too... ( :

Happy holidays,
Samir

Brian Stewart
2003-12-21 17:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Mine, alphabetically:

Fricsay
Gui
Horenstein
Reiner
Toscanini

Cheers!

Brian
Post by ansermetniac
I listed mine under my two favorite conductors. I think Curtis wanted
everyone to list theirs
again
Ansermet
Argenta
Cantelli
Casals
Toscanini
BTW Zubin is last no matter how you list it.
Abbedd
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