Discussion:
Hans Rosbaud
Add Reply
mandryka
2012-03-20 06:26:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.

I first got to know Rosbaud by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.

Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.

So what other Rosbaud records would you say are really special?
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 06:50:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little out
there right now.

My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of modern
music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music that no one
else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg Variations, Moses
and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen, Boulez, Hindemith,
Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid and colorful and eloquent.
I cannot imagine a better introduction to this repertoire. But
Rosbaud's amazing ability to get to the heart of a work of music, to
keep his approach both humble and confident, extends to basically
everything I've heard him do, avant garde or conservative. For
example, the Elgar (the cello concerto with Fournier, now on YouTube)
is so thoroughly and utterly right, to my ears, so is his Sibelius
disc on DG, and the Bruckner 7. I just heard his Schumann 1 for the
first time this week, and after a surprisingly slow opening I thought,
how did he make that work so well? And with each passing minute I felt
I understood more and more clearly that maybe, indeed, this was
exactly what the music was supposed to do. I get that feeling with his
conducting frequently: how could so many other musicians miss what
Rosbaud senses so clearly? The music shines anew like freshly polished
silver.

You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only briefly on CD.
You will find the 7th and 9th are at least as good...the 1st and 4th
very nearly at the same level of inspired style and concentration.

His Mozart is delectable as well--there are several opera recordings;
and speaking of Aix en Provence, don't miss his piano playing,
accompanying Teresa Stich-Randall in a recital from the 1950s. These
small arias and songs still give him room to shine with his gift for
direct musicianship--unfussy, superbly paced, deft in transitions,
shaped and phrased for the long haul but fastidious in the moment.
With such qualities, of course, you can imagine his Schubert 9 is a
great performance. I also adore his powerful Beethoven and Brahms, in
accompaniment for Gieseking, Casadesus, Backhaus, and Neveu and on his
own, such as the Consecration of the House Overture (not to be
missed!!) and Beethoven 7 and 8.

If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and Gluck, but
more because it now sounds so dated, not because it is unmusical at
all.

If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything. It's
all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial releases.

--Jeff
Louis
2012-03-20 08:07:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are really special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little out there
right now.

His Mozart is delectable as well--there are several opera recordings;
and speaking of Aix en Provence, don't miss his piano playing,
accompanying Teresa Stich-Randall in a recital from the 1950s. These
small arias and songs still give him room to shine with his gift for
direct musicianship--

--Jeff

Jeff summed it up. I can only stress what he wrote about Mozart's operas and
Stich-Randall.

Louis
wagnerfan
2012-03-20 08:27:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
My first Nozze di Figaro recording was the one on Vox with Rosbaud
recorded live at the 1955 Aix festival. A top notch cast
(Stich-Randall, Streich, Panerai, Rehfuss, Cuenod), superb conducting
and the excitement of a live recording still mkaes it one I listen to
often. Wagner fan
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little out
there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of modern
music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music that no one
else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg Variations, Moses
and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen, Boulez, Hindemith,
Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid and colorful and eloquent.
I cannot imagine a better introduction to this repertoire. But
Rosbaud's amazing ability to get to the heart of a work of music, to
keep his approach both humble and confident, extends to basically
everything I've heard him do, avant garde or conservative. For
example, the Elgar (the cello concerto with Fournier, now on YouTube)
is so thoroughly and utterly right, to my ears, so is his Sibelius
disc on DG, and the Bruckner 7. I just heard his Schumann 1 for the
first time this week, and after a surprisingly slow opening I thought,
how did he make that work so well? And with each passing minute I felt
I understood more and more clearly that maybe, indeed, this was
exactly what the music was supposed to do. I get that feeling with his
conducting frequently: how could so many other musicians miss what
Rosbaud senses so clearly? The music shines anew like freshly polished
silver.
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only briefly on CD.
You will find the 7th and 9th are at least as good...the 1st and 4th
very nearly at the same level of inspired style and concentration.
His Mozart is delectable as well--there are several opera recordings;
and speaking of Aix en Provence, don't miss his piano playing,
accompanying Teresa Stich-Randall in a recital from the 1950s. These
small arias and songs still give him room to shine with his gift for
direct musicianship--unfussy, superbly paced, deft in transitions,
shaped and phrased for the long haul but fastidious in the moment.
With such qualities, of course, you can imagine his Schubert 9 is a
great performance. I also adore his powerful Beethoven and Brahms, in
accompaniment for Gieseking, Casadesus, Backhaus, and Neveu and on his
own, such as the Consecration of the House Overture (not to be
missed!!) and Beethoven 7 and 8.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and Gluck, but
more because it now sounds so dated, not because it is unmusical at
all.
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything. It's
all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial releases.
--Jeff
Alan Cooper
2012-03-20 10:23:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on
DG. They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be
played, with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got
to know and love some of the recordings on symphonyshare,
especially a Mahler 6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with
Pears and an ancient recording of a transcription of Debussy’s
Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started
to play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for
percussion and piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really
special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little
out there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of
modern music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music
that no one else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg
Variations, Moses and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen,
Boulez, Hindemith, Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid
and colorful and eloquent. I cannot imagine a better
introduction to this repertoire. But Rosbaud's amazing ability
to get to the heart of a work of music, to keep his approach
both humble and confident, extends to basically everything I've
heard him do, avant garde or conservative.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and
Gluck, but more because it now sounds so dated, not because it
is unmusical at all.
<snip>
Post by jrsnfld
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything.
It's all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial
releases.
Beautiful tribute, with which I agree wholeheartedly. It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts. Apparently none of his were
recorded.

AC
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 14:21:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on
DG. They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be
played, with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got
to know and love some of the recordings on symphonyshare,
especially a Mahler 6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with
Pears and an ancient recording of a transcription of Debussy’s
Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started
to play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for
percussion and piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really
special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little
out there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of
modern music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music
that no one else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg
Variations, Moses and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen,
Boulez, Hindemith, Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid
and colorful and eloquent. I cannot imagine a better
introduction to this repertoire.  But Rosbaud's amazing ability
to get to the heart of a work of music, to keep his approach
both humble and confident, extends to basically everything I've
heard him do, avant garde or conservative.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and
Gluck, but more because it now sounds so dated, not because it
is unmusical at all.
<snip>
Post by jrsnfld
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything.
It's all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial
releases.
Beautiful tribute, with which I agree wholeheartedly.  It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death. I wonder if anything else from that program
survives and if so why VAI never released it. But otherwise, I think
you're right, there were no radio broadcasts, no recordings. I'm
particularly vexed that their Mahler 9 was not recorded, but as
fascinating as it might be to have such a document, I'm not
complaining about the Baden-Baden recordings. Rosbaud's relationship
with that orchestra seemed quite special. More hallowed groups like
Stk Dresden and the Berlin Phil (witness the Mahler 1s) may have some
slight advantages in tonal resplendence, but are not necessarily
preferable to the discipline and expression he got from his own
orchestra. Plus, the sound of many of those recordings is now dated,
but the acoustic in Baden-Baden is a plus overall compared to the live
recordings I've heard from elsewhere.

--Jeff
David Royko
2012-03-20 19:26:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death.
There's another Rosbaud performance from WGN that the orchestra issued, this one in their "CSO in the 20th Century: Collector's Choice" 10-CD set that came out in 2000, of Strauss's Der Bürger als Edelmann suite, performed/recorded November 13, 1960.

Dave Royko
http://www.davidroyko.com is Dave Royko's site for info about:
The book, Royko In Love: Mike's Letters to Carol (UofCPress);
The book, Voices of Children of Divorce (St. Martin's Press);
Music reviews & features (Chgo Trib, etc.); Ben stories (Autism);
CSO "From The Archives" index; Music Ramblings; and plenty of Etc.
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 19:53:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death.
There's another Rosbaud performance from WGN that the orchestra issued, this one in their "CSO in the 20th Century: Collector's Choice" 10-CD set that came out in 2000, of Strauss's Der Bürger als Edelmann suite, performed/recorded November 13, 1960.
Oh, yeah! Thanks for the reminder...I actually looked in that set
booklet briefly before posting, but somehow my eye skipped over that
because I was looking for Mozart. That's a very nice performance of
the Strauss.

I should have checked your web site to confirm!

Those two performances (the Mozart and Strauss) are from different
dates. Does that mean there are a few more pieces preserved in the CSO
archives, at least to fill out those two concerts?

--Jeff
D***@aol.com
2012-03-20 21:48:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on
DG. They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be
played, with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got
to know and love some of the recordings on symphonyshare,
especially a Mahler 6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with
Pears and an ancient recording of a transcription of Debussy’s
Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started
to play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for
percussion and piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really
special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little
out there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of
modern music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music
that no one else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg
Variations, Moses and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen,
Boulez, Hindemith, Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid
and colorful and eloquent. I cannot imagine a better
introduction to this repertoire.  But Rosbaud's amazing ability
to get to the heart of a work of music, to keep his approach
both humble and confident, extends to basically everything I've
heard him do, avant garde or conservative.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and
Gluck, but more because it now sounds so dated, not because it
is unmusical at all.
<snip>
Post by jrsnfld
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything.
It's all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial
releases.
Beautiful tribute, with which I agree wholeheartedly.  It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death. I wonder if anything else from that program
survives and if so why VAI never released it. But otherwise, I think
you're right, there were no radio broadcasts, no recordings. I'm
particularly vexed that their Mahler 9 was not recorded, but as
fascinating as it might be to have such a document, I'm not
complaining about the Baden-Baden recordings. Rosbaud's relationship
with that orchestra seemed quite special. More hallowed groups like
Stk Dresden and the Berlin Phil (witness the Mahler 1s) may have some
slight advantages in tonal resplendence, but are not necessarily
preferable to the discipline and expression he got from his own
orchestra. Plus, the sound of many of those recordings is now dated,
but the acoustic in Baden-Baden is a plus overall compared to the live
recordings I've heard from elsewhere.
--Jeff
A quick reply. The sound of at least two Rosbaud/CSO telecasts
survive, including not just the Mozart overture (issued) but some
Handel and Roussel's Third Symphony. I'll research this and post more
soon.

I heard many Rosbaud/Chicago SO concerts between 1961 and 1963. They
were uniformly extraordinary. To begin with, the CSO musicians
worshipped him and hoped he would succeed the ailing and soon-to-leave
Fritz Reiner, but Rosbaud's health was too poor and it was impossible.
But the CSO played like gods for him: again, they worshipped him. Here
are some of the Rosbaud/Chicago Symphony things I'll never forget, but
not all:

Mozart: "Posthorn" Serenade
Bruckner: Symphony no. 6
Beethoven: Creatures of Prometheus Overture
Vivaldi: Concerto Grosso Op. 3 #11
Rossini: a sonata for strings
Respighi: Gli Uccelli
Berg: Three Pieces
Schumann: Symphony no. 2 (absolutely unbelievable, unforgettable)
music by Faure, Ravel, etc. (would have to look up)
Rosbaud's last two CSO weeks, 1963:
Mahler: Symphony no. 9
Faure: Requiem

The Faure was inexpressibly heartfelt and moving. When Rosbaud
walked out for bows, he was mopping his eyes. He was weeping. Two or
three weeks later, he died. We in the audience didn't know he was
dying; but I think he and the CSO knew he was.

Yes indeed, if only we had recordings of those concerts! But not.
There are those of the television ones though. I'll check more. Stay
tuned.

Don Tait
Alan Cooper
2012-03-20 21:58:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@aol.com
A quick reply. The sound of at least two Rosbaud/CSO telecasts
survive, including not just the Mozart overture (issued) but
some Handel and Roussel's Third Symphony. I'll research this and
post more soon.
I heard many Rosbaud/Chicago SO concerts between 1961 and
1963. They
were uniformly extraordinary. To begin with, the CSO musicians
worshipped him and hoped he would succeed the ailing and
soon-to-leave Fritz Reiner, but Rosbaud's health was too poor
again, they worshipped him. Here are some of the Rosbaud/Chicago
Mozart: "Posthorn" Serenade
Bruckner: Symphony no. 6
Beethoven: Creatures of Prometheus Overture
Vivaldi: Concerto Grosso Op. 3 #11
Rossini: a sonata for strings
Respighi: Gli Uccelli
Berg: Three Pieces
Schumann: Symphony no. 2 (absolutely unbelievable,
unforgettable) music by Faure, Ravel, etc. (would have to look
Mahler: Symphony no. 9
Faure: Requiem
The Faure was inexpressibly heartfelt and moving. When Rosbaud
walked out for bows, he was mopping his eyes. He was weeping.
Two or three weeks later, he died. We in the audience didn't
know he was dying; but I think he and the CSO knew he was.
Yes indeed, if only we had recordings of those concerts! But
not.
There are those of the television ones though. I'll check more.
Stay tuned.
OMG, Rosbaud might have been the only conductor ever who could have kept me awake
through the Faure Requiem :-) Thanks for your beautiful and informative post,
Don.

AC
wagnerfan
2012-03-20 23:47:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@aol.com
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on
DG. They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be
played, with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got
to know and love some of the recordings on symphonyshare,
especially a Mahler 6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with
Pears and an ancient recording of a transcription of Debussy’s
Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started
to play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for
percussion and piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really
special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little
out there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of
modern music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music
that no one else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg
Variations, Moses and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen,
Boulez, Hindemith, Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid
and colorful and eloquent. I cannot imagine a better
introduction to this repertoire.  But Rosbaud's amazing ability
to get to the heart of a work of music, to keep his approach
both humble and confident, extends to basically everything I've
heard him do, avant garde or conservative.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and
Gluck, but more because it now sounds so dated, not because it
is unmusical at all.
<snip>
Post by jrsnfld
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything.
It's all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial
releases.
Beautiful tribute, with which I agree wholeheartedly.  It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death. I wonder if anything else from that program
survives and if so why VAI never released it. But otherwise, I think
you're right, there were no radio broadcasts, no recordings. I'm
particularly vexed that their Mahler 9 was not recorded, but as
fascinating as it might be to have such a document, I'm not
complaining about the Baden-Baden recordings. Rosbaud's relationship
with that orchestra seemed quite special. More hallowed groups like
Stk Dresden and the Berlin Phil (witness the Mahler 1s) may have some
slight advantages in tonal resplendence, but are not necessarily
preferable to the discipline and expression he got from his own
orchestra. Plus, the sound of many of those recordings is now dated,
but the acoustic in Baden-Baden is a plus overall compared to the live
recordings I've heard from elsewhere.
--Jeff
A quick reply. The sound of at least two Rosbaud/CSO telecasts
survive, including not just the Mozart overture (issued) but some
Handel and Roussel's Third Symphony. I'll research this and post more
soon.
I heard many Rosbaud/Chicago SO concerts between 1961 and 1963. They
were uniformly extraordinary. To begin with, the CSO musicians
worshipped him and hoped he would succeed the ailing and soon-to-leave
Fritz Reiner, but Rosbaud's health was too poor and it was impossible.
But the CSO played like gods for him: again, they worshipped him. Here
are some of the Rosbaud/Chicago Symphony things I'll never forget, but
Mozart: "Posthorn" Serenade
Bruckner: Symphony no. 6
Beethoven: Creatures of Prometheus Overture
Vivaldi: Concerto Grosso Op. 3 #11
Rossini: a sonata for strings
Respighi: Gli Uccelli
Berg: Three Pieces
Schumann: Symphony no. 2 (absolutely unbelievable, unforgettable)
music by Faure, Ravel, etc. (would have to look up)
Mahler: Symphony no. 9
Faure: Requiem
The Faure was inexpressibly heartfelt and moving. When Rosbaud
walked out for bows, he was mopping his eyes. He was weeping. Two or
three weeks later, he died. We in the audience didn't know he was
dying; but I think he and the CSO knew he was.
Yes indeed, if only we had recordings of those concerts! But not.
There are those of the television ones though. I'll check more. Stay
tuned.
Don Tait
What a story - thanks so much!!!! I have to get more of his work
Wagner fan
rkhalona
2012-03-20 22:59:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on
DG. They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be
played, with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got
to know and love some of the recordings on symphonyshare,
especially a Mahler 6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with
Pears and an ancient recording of a transcription of Debussy’s
Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started
to play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for
percussion and piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really
special?
Practically everything, in part because, well, there's so little
out there right now.
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of
modern music. One of his great skills was bringing to life music
that no one else had heard or understood well. His Schoenberg
Variations, Moses and Aron, Berg 3 Pieces, Webern, Messiaen,
Boulez, Hindemith, Dallapiccola--they are all amazingly lucid
and colorful and eloquent. I cannot imagine a better
introduction to this repertoire.  But Rosbaud's amazing ability
to get to the heart of a work of music, to keep his approach
both humble and confident, extends to basically everything I've
heard him do, avant garde or conservative.
If anything is less than stellar, it may be his Rameau and
Gluck, but more because it now sounds so dated, not because it
is unmusical at all.
<snip>
Post by jrsnfld
If you can't tell, Rosbaud is one of the three or, at most, four
conductors I treasure most in history. So I say--get everything.
It's all special, and let's keep begging for more commercial
releases.
Beautiful tribute, with which I agree wholeheartedly.  It's a great tragedy that
Rosbaud's stint with the Chicago Symphony took place during a period when the
orchestra was not broadcasting its concerts.  Apparently none of his were
recorded.
Almost none. Volume 6 of the CSO's "From the Archives" series has a
"Magic Flute" overture conducted by Rosbaud. It's from a telecast 2
months before his death. I wonder if anything else from that program
survives and if so why VAI never released it. But otherwise, I think
you're right, there were no radio broadcasts, no recordings. I'm
particularly vexed that their Mahler 9 was not recorded, but as
fascinating as it might be to have such a document, I'm not
complaining about the Baden-Baden recordings. Rosbaud's relationship
with that orchestra seemed quite special. More hallowed groups like
Stk Dresden and the Berlin Phil (witness the Mahler 1s) may have some
slight advantages in tonal resplendence, but are not necessarily
preferable to the discipline and expression he got from his own
orchestra. Plus, the sound of many of those recordings is now dated,
but the acoustic in Baden-Baden is a plus overall compared to the live
recordings I've heard from elsewhere.
--Jeff
What I would give for a recording of that legendary Mahler 9th Rosbaud
conducted in Chicago.
We can only dream.

RK
td
2012-03-20 14:41:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet. We'll
see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on 2 CDs with
some Mozart.

A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.

TD
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 16:02:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet.  We'll
see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on 2 CDs with
some Mozart.
The Mozart is also valuable to have...I don't know of another
performance with Rosbaud conducting the flute/harp concerto.
A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a talent
for expressionism--with its demonically heightened tension, savage
colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the music. I'm not surprised
that someone called the Mahler 6 uninvolved. People sometimes think
Rosbaud is cool, sometimes detached in Mahler, which isn't far from
uninvolved. I don't hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there
is a subtlety, seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of
Mahler interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a story of
a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances project that
sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you want art that
exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that "proclaims" tragedy.
Think Schubert sonatas.

--Jeff
Alan Cooper
2012-03-20 19:56:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only
briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet.
 We'll see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on
2 CDs with some Mozart.
The Mozart is also valuable to have...I don't know of another
performance with Rosbaud conducting the flute/harp concerto.
Post by td
A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of Rosbaud's Mahler
7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite performances. (I like Bernstein
when in the mood for overt histrionics.) Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in
modern sound: you just have to listen to Gielen :-)

AC
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 21:01:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only
briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet.
 We'll see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on
2 CDs with some Mozart.
The Mozart is also valuable to have...I don't know of another
performance with Rosbaud conducting the flute/harp concerto.
Post by td
A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of Rosbaud's Mahler
7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite performances.  (I like Bernstein
when in the mood for overt histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in
modern sound: you just have to listen to Gielen :-)
AC
Heh, heh. I agree with you about Gielen's first go-round on the 7th
and 9th. They're pretty close to Rosbaud, if not quite as vividly
colored.

--Jeff
Bob Harper
2012-03-20 21:19:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only
briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet.
 We'll see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on
2 CDs with some Mozart.
The Mozart is also valuable to have...I don't know of another
performance with Rosbaud conducting the flute/harp concerto.
Post by td
A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of Rosbaud's Mahler
7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite performances.  (I like Bernstein
when in the mood for overt histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in
modern sound: you just have to listen to Gielen :-)
AC
Heh, heh. I agree with you about Gielen's first go-round on the 7th
and 9th. They're pretty close to Rosbaud, if not quite as vividly
colored.
--Jeff- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Are there two Gielen 7ths? I thought the 'new' one was simply a
reissue with a more modern cover in line with the rest of the cycle.
There *are* two 9ths, but AFAIK only one 7th.

Bob Harper
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 06:06:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
You're lucky to have heard the Mahler 6, which was only briefly on CD.
I have just managed to order this recording via the Internet.
 We'll see if it shows up. It was published by Stradivarius on
2 CDs with some Mozart.
The Mozart is also valuable to have...I don't know of another
performance with Rosbaud conducting the flute/harp concerto.
Post by td
A Mahler fan rips it apart, however, describing Rosbaud as
"uninvolved". Hmmmm. I wonder if that conductor could ever be
uninvolved. Not in his DNA from what I have heard.
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of Rosbaud's Mahler
7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite performances.  (I like Bernstein
when in the mood for overt histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in
modern sound: you just have to listen to Gielen :-)
AC
Heh, heh. I agree with you about Gielen's first go-round on the 7th
and 9th. They're pretty close to Rosbaud, if not quite as vividly
colored.
--Jeff- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Are there two Gielen 7ths? I thought the 'new' one was simply a
reissue with a more modern cover in line with the rest of the cycle.
There *are* two 9ths, but AFAIK only one 7th.
You're right. I was conflating 7 with 9; Gielen's 7th on Hanssler is
not a remake but a reissue of the Intercord disc.

--Jeff
Al Eisner
2012-03-21 21:26:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances. (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.) Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire. A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments. While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned). I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata). My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of #1 and 4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.

Orchestral:

ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')

MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')

MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)

URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)

ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)

APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)

ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)


Opera:

WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)

MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)

EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)

G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')

G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')

[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]


Rosbaud on piano:

PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
Al Eisner
mandryka
2012-03-21 22:18:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)
EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')
[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
                                                              Al Eisner
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
wagnerfan
2012-03-21 22:31:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT), mandryka
Post by mandryka
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)
EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')
[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
                                                              Al Eisner
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
Yes the GOP and the EMI Mozart operas are the same - the Nozze is
live and the Don is studio (recorded after the live run) Wagner fan
Al Eisner
2012-03-21 22:42:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[excerpt from broinc list]
Post by mandryka
Post by Al Eisner
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
Me too. If that's a decent release of the Mahler, it's the most
attractive item on the list for me.
--
Al Eisner
jrsnfld
2012-03-22 00:51:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mandryka
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)
EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')
[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
                                                              Al Eisner
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
My local library had them on LP, and fortunately one of the thoughtful
Cap'n's transferred them to CD a number of years ago.

--Jeff
mandryka
2012-03-22 06:41:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)
EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')
[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
                                                              Al Eisner
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
My local library had them on LP, and fortunately one of the thoughtful
Cap'n's transferred them to CD a number of years ago.
--Jeff
What is the sound quality like?
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 07:16:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mandryka
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
MELODRAM (3-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Renato Capecchi, Marcello
Cortis, Suzanne Danco, Carla Castellani, Leopold Simoneau, Emmy Loose
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/18/50)
EMI (5-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro {w.Stich-Randall, Streich,
Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai et al.}; Don Giovanni {Campo, Danco, Gedda,
Stich-Randall, Moffo} (All w.Aix-en-Provence Chorus & Paris
Conservatory Orch./ Rosbaud)
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, The Marriage of Figaro. (Panerai, Streich,
Stich-Randall, Rehfuss, Lorengar, Cuenod et al. Aix-en-Provence
Festival Chorus & Paris Conservatory Orchestra/
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 7/55. Total time: 153'50')
G.O.P. (2-CD): Mozart, Don Giovanni. (Antonio Campo, Teresa
Stich-Randall, Nicolai Gedda, Suzanne Danco, Marcello Cortis, Anna
Moffo, Andre Vessieres, Raffaele Arie et al. Aix-en-Provence Festival
Chorus and Paris Conservatory Orchestra/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence, 9/20 & 9/28, 1956. Total time: 159'13')
[Are these G.O.P. the same as the EMI performances?]
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
--
                                                              Al Eisner
I wonder if anyone has heard those Mozart symphonies and the Haydn 82
My local library had them on LP, and fortunately one of the thoughtful
Cap'n's transferred them to CD a number of years ago.
--Jeff
What is the sound quality like?
I haven't had a chance to go back and listen enough to describe it,
but I know it's better than listening to the worn LPs from the
library. Basically I'm very happy with the transfers which are clearly
from much-better LP copies, with much livelier sound, less distortion,
and quieter surfaces. There was a stretch of whiny distortion noise or
some other annoyance for a few seconds on one track. I assume that was
the transfer and not my system. Nonetheless: heartily recommended on
the basis of sound, because I can't imagine anyone who experienced the
frustrations of the LP era wouldn't be thrilled to have what these CDs
provide.

--Jeff
Terry
2012-03-22 09:19:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
My experience of Rosbaud is quite limited. In the 1950s I bought (and
enjoyed) a 10" DGG LP of him conducting some Sibelius pieces: Finlandia, The
Swan of Tuonela, Bolero and one other piece, possibly the Valse Triste. Since
then I've heard only a Das Lied von der Erde, which I thought at the time was
pretty dry-eyed in comparison with the Walter/Ferrier/Patzak on Decca. I must
do some more listening to him.
jrsnfld
2012-03-22 01:28:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
[older dialog snipped]
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by jrsnfld
His Berg/Webern/Schoenberg performances certainly indicate a
talent for expressionism--with its demonically heightened
tension, savage colors, and raw sensitivity. But that's the
music. I'm not surprised that someone called the Mahler 6
uninvolved. People sometimes think Rosbaud is cool, sometimes
detached in Mahler, which isn't far from uninvolved. I don't
hear it that way anymore--far from it--but there is a subtlety,
seriousness, and a selfless discipline to this style of Mahler
interpretation that not everyone responds to and certainly
doesn't repay casual listening. That Mahler 6 is more about pure
music, a classical construction, rather than about telling a
story of a heartbroken composer. Not many Mahler performances
project that sensibility. Yet it has just the right touch if you
want art that exudes ineffable tragedy, instead of art that
"proclaims" tragedy. Think Schubert sonatas.
Exactly so, and Jeff's remarks also explain the great success of
Rosbaud's Mahler 7th--the anti-Bernstein, and one of my favorite
performances.  (I like Bernstein when in the mood for overt
histrionics.)  Fortunately "Rosbaud" can be heard in modern sound: you
just have to listen to Gielen :-)
Curious about his Mahler, as well as Jeff's earlier remark that just
about anything by Rosbaud was worth hearing, I checked what is currently
available at Berkshire.  A lot of it is on labels I either think of
as being suspect (in terms of sound quality) or know nothing about at
all, so I'm interested in any comments.  While I'm mainly asking about
the Orchestral items, I include Operas as well (along with what is
probably the same Rosbaud-at-piano CD Jeff mentioned).  I've only
included those listings which entirely involve Rosbaud (except two
of them include in addition the same Gieseking performance of a Mozart
sonata).  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
Not a bad option since Urania is the other label that has issued this.
I don't know who else. Plus the coupling should be nice (I don't think
I've heard it.)
Post by Al Eisner
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
Might as well get it, or better yet get the Haydn and Mozart from
Pierre Paquin, who couples them with the Brahms Serenade 2 and Mozart
K388.
Post by Al Eisner
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
Well worth getting; there's an SWR Mahler 1 and a Dresden Mahler 1
floating around, but this will be a good one to have. I haven't heard
it on Memories, but it's a label that's usually ok.
Post by Al Eisner
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
Bleah..incomplete version of the performance; wretched label.
Post by Al Eisner
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
I don't know how else to get all of these right now. The Mozart with
Brain was once the coupling (on Arkadia) for Bruckner 3. The Mozart is
superb (no matter what you think of Gieseking).
Post by Al Eisner
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
Better label, right? No hesitation unless you bought the other as a
better value.
Post by Al Eisner
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
There are labels I trust more with this Mahler 7 (Ramon mentioned the
issue on Phoenix, the Italian label). And unlike Ramon I happen to
like the Mahler 7 on Vox anyway. So personally, I wouldn't rate this
too highly for a beginning, because the sound on Archipel is only so-
so, usually, but it's probably so cheap that you don't lose much by
getting it and the performance is definitely worthwhile. I don't know
the disc first hand.
Post by Al Eisner
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
I don't have it on this label, but I would get it this way if
necessary.
Post by Al Eisner
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
I would grab it; Preiser's usually good. I have it on INA.

--Jeff
pgaron
2012-03-22 15:59:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
Not a bad option since Urania is the other label that has issued this.
I don't know who else. Plus the coupling should be nice (I don't think
I've heard it.)
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics of
the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor of
the one from Archipel:

MAHLER Symphony No. 4. WAGNER Parsifal: Prelude to Act 1 • Hans
Rosbaud, cond; Eva-Maria Rogner (sop); SWF SO Baden-Baden • ARCHIPEL
473, mono (78:11)

This radio recording has been previously available on the Urania
label, with a radical difference of opinion as to date (Urania says
1951, Archipel 1959). I don’t know which is correct, but can report
that the Archipel is clearly from a far superior source, open and well
detailed where the Urania is dull and muddy.

The sonic improvement is doubly welcome as this is one of the great
Mahler Fourths in recorded history. Rosbaud’s classicist approach is
reminiscent of such conductors as van Beinum (Concertgebouw/Decca,
1951) and Szell (Cleveland/Columbia, 1965), and at least their equal
in technical accomplishment and idiomatic expression. The first
movement has Rosbaud’s trademark rock-solid feel, yet always with
space to breathe. Textural clarity and lucidity of articulation are
very much the order of the day; everything is in sharp focus, with
minute, and pungently characterful, attention to every detail.

Yet there’s never any sense of missing the forest for the trees;
nothing is exaggerated, and Rosbaud’s observation of Mahler’s
prescribed tempo inflections, though always meticulous, is more
narrowly circumscribed than some other conductors’, emphasizing
cohesion and forward motion over local incident—the closing section of
the first-movement exposition (Rehearsal 4, Plötzlich langsam und
bedächtig) is a case in point. The Adagio is ideal in singing quality,
concentration, shaping of the long line, and contrapuntal lucidity.
Later, in the climactic sequence of Rehearsals 9–11, Rosbaud’s
integration of the tricky succession of meter and tempo changes is
simply superlative—I have never heard both the letter and spirit of
this passage more persuasively projected. In the finale, Eva-Maria
Rogner is delectably light and agile.

The Wagner (recorded 1957) makes a fine bonus. I hadn’t encountered it
before, and suspect it’s new to CD. It is utterly gripping, bracingly
modernist in its stinging accents and razor-sharp wind chording, with
a powerful sense of line and forward motion.

Documentation is minimal as always from this label, but the huge sonic
improvement makes this a mandatory upgrade for owners of the earlier
Urania edition. And for Mahler collectors generally, this is simply
one of the indispensable Fourths.

FANFARE: Boyd Pomeroy
Matthew B. Tepper
2012-03-22 19:22:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
pgaron <***@my-deja.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics of
the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor of
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly. Wishlisted!

Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online? Not the
useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and "discography,"
nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old Kindle "book," please.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Frank Berger
2012-03-22 19:36:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly. Wishlisted!
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked. Couldn't find one. There was a book.
rkhalona
2012-03-22 20:17:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly.  Wishlisted!
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked.  Couldn't find one.  There was a book.
Yes, it is a wonderful book by Joan Evans, including listings of
recordings in various archives, notably among them SWR.
Since it was published there have been various items added (we
discussed the Dresden Mahler 1st here about 10 years ago), but this
book is still indispensable if you are serious about Rosbaud, one of
the greatest musicians and conductors ever.

RK
Al Eisner
2012-03-23 01:04:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rkhalona
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly.  Wishlisted!
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked.  Couldn't find one.  There was a book.
Yes, it is a wonderful book by Joan Evans, including listings of
recordings in various archives, notably among them SWR.
Since it was published there have been various items added (we
discussed the Dresden Mahler 1st here about 10 years ago), but this
book is still indispensable if you are serious about Rosbaud, one of
the greatest musicians and conductors ever.
RK
I hope David Gable doesn't mind if I quote in full here an extract he
prepared from that biography and posted here in Jan. 1998 (found in the
archives at google groups) covering Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven:

# Recent enthusiastic comments about Rosbaud recordings of piano concerti
# of Mozart and Beethoven have prompted me to post a listing of all the
# recordings of the first Viennese school that Rosbaud made.
# Unfortunately, they are not well represented on CD. My source is "Hans
# Rosbaud: a Bio-Bibliography" by Joan Evans (Greenwood Press, New York,
# 1992). This volume includes a warm introduction by Pierre Boulez, a
# brief biography, a list of all the premieres conducted by Rosbaud, and a
# detailed discography. The author is at work on a full-scale biography
# of Rosbaud.
# -David Gable
#
# Hans Rosbaud made recordings of the following works of Haydn, Mozart,
# and Beethoven. Unless otherwise indicated, the release was on LP:
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 45 ("Farewell")
# w/the Berlin Phil. Released 1959 on Electrola
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 82 ("Bear")
# w/Bavarian Radio Symphony Released 1950 on Mercury
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 88
# w/Strasbourg Philharmonic Recorded 1943, released 1985 on Melodiya
# (coupled with Rosbaud recordings of Cimarosa and Brahms)
#
# Haydn, Symphonies 92 & 104
# w/Berlin Philharmonic Recorded and released 1957 on DGG
#
# Mozart, Piano Concerto no. 9 in E flat, K.271
# w/Gieseking, Berlin State Opera Orchestra Recorded 1936, released on
# European Columbia 78's; variously reissued on LP by Parnassus, Bruno
# Walter Society, EMI
#
# Mozart, Piano Concerto no. 20 in D minor, K.466, & no. 25 in C, K.503
# w/Gieseking, Philharmonia Orchestra Recorded 1953, released 1955 on
# European Columbia, later on Angel and Pathe', etc.
#
# Mozart, Violin Concerto no. 4, K.218
# w/Wolfgang Schneiderhan & Berlin Phil Recorded 1956, released 1957 on
# DGG
#
# Mozart, Cosi fan tutte (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Berganza, Adani, Alva, Panerai, Cortis, Paris
# Conservatory Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957
# Released on CD, 1983, by Rodolphe (Rappel-FNAC)
#
# Mozart, Don Giovanni (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Danco, Moffo, Gedda, Campo, Cortis, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival & Paris, 1956
# released on Pathe', 1957, subsequently on Vox in USA, and on CD by EMI
#
# Mozart, Die Entfu"hrung aus dem Serail (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Prietto, Gedda, Senechal, Arie, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1954
# released on CD on Rodolphe
#
# Mozart, Le Nozze di Figaro (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Streich, Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1955
# released on Pathe', 1956, subsequently on Vox in USA, and on CD by EMI
#
# Mozart, Serenade in C minor, K.388
# w/members of Bavarian Radio Symphony Recorded Bayreuth, 1944-45,
# released on Mercury, 1950, (coupled with Brahms)
#
# Mozart, Symphonies no. 39 in E flat, K.543, and no. 41 in C, K.555
# w/Bavarian Radio Symphony Released on Mercury, 1950
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 1
# w/Gieseking, Berlin State Opera Orchestra Recorded and released 1937 on
# European Columbia; reissued on CD by Ades
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 3 (live recording)
# w/Backhaus, Cologne Radio Symphony Recorded 1950, released on Seven
# Seas
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 5
# w/Casadesus Recorded and released, 1961, on Philips, subsequently
# issued on Columbia Odyssey and on CD by Philips
#
# Beethoven, Violin Concerto (live)
# w/Neveu, SWF Symphony Orch Recorded 1949; released on CD, 1986, Music
# & Arts
#
# Beethoven: Symphony no. 8
# w/SWF Symphony Orchestra Recorded & released 1961, private recording of
# the SWF Symphony Orchestra

Thanks to David (albeit 14 years late) for making this broad picture
available. See RK's comments above re. additions since that book was
published.

By the way, as of today "Die Entführung" has joined the other Mozart
operas in availability at Berkshire.
--
Al Eisner
Matthew B. Tepper
2012-03-23 01:25:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Al Eisner <***@slac.stanford.edu> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:alpine.LRH.2.00.1203221756150.20608
Post by Al Eisner
Post by rkhalona
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly.  Wishlisted
!
Post by rkhalona
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked.  Couldn't find one.  There was a book.
Yes, it is a wonderful book by Joan Evans, including listings of
recordings in various archives, notably among them SWR.
Since it was published there have been various items added (we
discussed the Dresden Mahler 1st here about 10 years ago), but this
book is still indispensable if you are serious about Rosbaud, one of
the greatest musicians and conductors ever.
RK
I hope David Gable doesn't mind if I quote in full here an extract he
prepared from that biography and posted here in Jan. 1998 (found in the
# Recent enthusiastic comments about Rosbaud recordings of piano concerti
# of Mozart and Beethoven have prompted me to post a listing of all the
# recordings of the first Viennese school that Rosbaud made.
# Unfortunately, they are not well represented on CD. My source is "Hans
# Rosbaud: a Bio-Bibliography" by Joan Evans (Greenwood Press, New York,
# 1992). This volume includes a warm introduction by Pierre Boulez, a
# brief biography, a list of all the premieres conducted by Rosbaud, and
# a detailed discography. The author is at work on a full-scale
# biography of Rosbaud.
This list does NOT include two Mozart horn concerti with Dennis Brain,
which I have. This is one of the reasons I'd like to find a discography
that isn't twenty years old.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Al Eisner
2012-03-23 23:42:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:alpine.LRH.2.00.1203221756150.20608
Post by Al Eisner
Post by rkhalona
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly. ?Wishlisted
!
Post by rkhalona
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked. ?Couldn't find one. ?There was a book.
Yes, it is a wonderful book by Joan Evans, including listings of
recordings in various archives, notably among them SWR.
Since it was published there have been various items added (we
discussed the Dresden Mahler 1st here about 10 years ago), but this
book is still indispensable if you are serious about Rosbaud, one of
the greatest musicians and conductors ever.
RK
I hope David Gable doesn't mind if I quote in full here an extract he
prepared from that biography and posted here in Jan. 1998 (found in the
# Recent enthusiastic comments about Rosbaud recordings of piano concerti
# of Mozart and Beethoven have prompted me to post a listing of all the
# recordings of the first Viennese school that Rosbaud made.
# Unfortunately, they are not well represented on CD. My source is "Hans
# Rosbaud: a Bio-Bibliography" by Joan Evans (Greenwood Press, New York,
# 1992). This volume includes a warm introduction by Pierre Boulez, a
# brief biography, a list of all the premieres conducted by Rosbaud, and
# a detailed discography. The author is at work on a full-scale
# biography of Rosbaud.
This list does NOT include two Mozart horn concerti with Dennis Brain,
which I have. This is one of the reasons I'd like to find a discography
that isn't twenty years old.
Granted and understood, but:

You're attacking a straw man, since the post stated (twice, in fact) that
the list is not complete based on later information. You also complained
earlier that the book was "ridiculously overpriced" -- well, David has
provided an extract from it, absolutely free of charge. So why complain?

[I might also have add that you don't need a discography for those two horn
concertos, since you actually have them. But I won't.]
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
wagnerfan
2012-03-23 02:57:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:04:58 -0700, Al Eisner
Post by Al Eisner
Post by rkhalona
letters to be typed in news:ae546634-2a57-4772-8e03-
Post by pgaron
Courtesy of the ArkivMusic site, here is a "Fanfare" review of the
Archipel release of Rosbaud's Mahler 4th, which compares the sonics
of the Archipel and Urania releases -- coming down squarely in favor
Yes, that was in the latest issue, if I recall correctly.  Wishlisted!
Is anybody aware of an actual Rosbaud discography somewhere online?
Not the useless clutter returned by a Google search on "Rosbaud" and
"discography," nor the ridiculously-overpriced, twenty-year-old
Kindle "book," please.
Just looked.  Couldn't find one.  There was a book.
Yes, it is a wonderful book by Joan Evans, including listings of
recordings in various archives, notably among them SWR.
Since it was published there have been various items added (we
discussed the Dresden Mahler 1st here about 10 years ago), but this
book is still indispensable if you are serious about Rosbaud, one of
the greatest musicians and conductors ever.
RK
I hope David Gable doesn't mind if I quote in full here an extract he
prepared from that biography and posted here in Jan. 1998 (found in the
# Recent enthusiastic comments about Rosbaud recordings of piano concerti
# of Mozart and Beethoven have prompted me to post a listing of all the
# recordings of the first Viennese school that Rosbaud made.
# Unfortunately, they are not well represented on CD. My source is "Hans
# Rosbaud: a Bio-Bibliography" by Joan Evans (Greenwood Press, New York,
# 1992). This volume includes a warm introduction by Pierre Boulez, a
# brief biography, a list of all the premieres conducted by Rosbaud, and a
# detailed discography. The author is at work on a full-scale biography
# of Rosbaud.
# -David Gable
#
# Hans Rosbaud made recordings of the following works of Haydn, Mozart,
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 45 ("Farewell")
# w/the Berlin Phil. Released 1959 on Electrola
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 82 ("Bear")
# w/Bavarian Radio Symphony Released 1950 on Mercury
#
# Haydn, Symphony no. 88
# w/Strasbourg Philharmonic Recorded 1943, released 1985 on Melodiya
# (coupled with Rosbaud recordings of Cimarosa and Brahms)
#
# Haydn, Symphonies 92 & 104
# w/Berlin Philharmonic Recorded and released 1957 on DGG
#
# Mozart, Piano Concerto no. 9 in E flat, K.271
# w/Gieseking, Berlin State Opera Orchestra Recorded 1936, released on
# European Columbia 78's; variously reissued on LP by Parnassus, Bruno
# Walter Society, EMI
#
# Mozart, Piano Concerto no. 20 in D minor, K.466, & no. 25 in C, K.503
# w/Gieseking, Philharmonia Orchestra Recorded 1953, released 1955 on
# European Columbia, later on Angel and Pathe', etc.
#
# Mozart, Violin Concerto no. 4, K.218
# w/Wolfgang Schneiderhan & Berlin Phil Recorded 1956, released 1957 on
# DGG
#
# Mozart, Cosi fan tutte (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Berganza, Adani, Alva, Panerai, Cortis, Paris
# Conservatory Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957
# Released on CD, 1983, by Rodolphe (Rappel-FNAC)
#
# Mozart, Don Giovanni (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Danco, Moffo, Gedda, Campo, Cortis, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival & Paris, 1956
# released on Pathe', 1957, subsequently on Vox in USA, and on CD by EMI
#
# Mozart, Die Entfu"hrung aus dem Serail (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Prietto, Gedda, Senechal, Arie, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1954
# released on CD on Rodolphe
#
# Mozart, Le Nozze di Figaro (live recording)
# w/Stich-Randall, Streich, Lorengar, Rehfuss, Panerai, Paris Conservatory
# Orchestra
# Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1955
# released on Pathe', 1956, subsequently on Vox in USA, and on CD by EMI
#
# Mozart, Serenade in C minor, K.388
# w/members of Bavarian Radio Symphony Recorded Bayreuth, 1944-45,
# released on Mercury, 1950, (coupled with Brahms)
#
# Mozart, Symphonies no. 39 in E flat, K.543, and no. 41 in C, K.555
# w/Bavarian Radio Symphony Released on Mercury, 1950
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 1
# w/Gieseking, Berlin State Opera Orchestra Recorded and released 1937 on
# European Columbia; reissued on CD by Ades
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 3 (live recording)
# w/Backhaus, Cologne Radio Symphony Recorded 1950, released on Seven
# Seas
#
# Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 5
# w/Casadesus Recorded and released, 1961, on Philips, subsequently
# issued on Columbia Odyssey and on CD by Philips
#
# Beethoven, Violin Concerto (live)
# w/Neveu, SWF Symphony Orch Recorded 1949; released on CD, 1986, Music
# & Arts
#
# Beethoven: Symphony no. 8
# w/SWF Symphony Orchestra Recorded & released 1961, private recording of
# the SWF Symphony Orchestra
Thanks to David (albeit 14 years late) for making this broad picture
available. See RK's comments above re. additions since that book was
published.
By the way, as of today "Die Entführung" has joined the other Mozart
operas in availability at Berkshire.
Note that the Don Giovanni is actually a studio recording. Wagner
fan
Rich
2012-03-23 03:39:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Interesting thread. It reminded me that I have Philips (PHCP-20425
Japan) Rosbaud /Concertgebouw- Stravinsky Petrouchka still in the wrap
on my shelf. I looked back at some scans of old newspapers, and saw
that there was a telecast of the Rosbaud/CSO in Ravel's Concerto for
the Left Hand with John Browning. Maybe Don Tait can confirm this?

Rich
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 04:27:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich
Interesting thread. It reminded me that I have Philips (PHCP-20425
Japan) Rosbaud /Concertgebouw- Stravinsky Petrouchka still in the wrap
on my shelf.  I looked back at some scans of old newspapers, and saw
that there was a telecast of the Rosbaud/CSO  in Ravel's Concerto for
the Left Hand with John Browning.  Maybe Don Tait can confirm this?
Rich
Interesting! What was the date? Was that on the program with the Magic
Flute overture?

--Jeff
Rich
2012-03-23 06:14:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Rich
Interesting thread. It reminded me that I have Philips (PHCP-20425
Japan) Rosbaud /Concertgebouw- Stravinsky Petrouchka still in the wrap
on my shelf.  I looked back at some scans of old newspapers, and saw
that there was a telecast of the Rosbaud/CSO  in Ravel's Concerto for
the Left Hand with John Browning.  Maybe Don Tait can confirm this?
Rich
Interesting! What was the date? Was that on the program with the Magic
Flute overture?
--Jeff
Jeff,

Television listings from the San Diego Union (02-04-1962) for the 9 PM
time slot on Channel 11 show "Great Music from Chicago" Hans Rosbaud
and Robert Casadesus (60 minutes). Probably wrong. Other viewing
options for the 9PM slot were "The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Danny
Thomas Show".

Another listing from the San Diego Union (1962-03-11) for the 9 PM
time slot: "Guest conductor is Hans Rosbaud who leads Beethoven's
Overture to Egmont, Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand, and Roussel's
Third Symphony." (Great Music from Chicago-60 minutes) If you
didn't want to watch the CSO Rosbaud you could switch over to Channel
6 and see an episode of Surfside- "Daphne and Ken face a criminal-
minded beatnik in a home for the aged"

A 1963-04-20 Illinois Register TV listing has a 3:30 PM slot for
"Great Music from Chicago" with Hans Rosbaud and John Browning
(pianist) in a program of Beethoven and Ravel on Channel 39 presented
by John O. Smyth Furniture Oil. That concert was probably iffy
because at 1 PM on Channel 39 there was a live broadcast of the Reds
and Pirates game. Prior to baseball ...Championship Bridge....

Rich
O
2012-03-23 14:35:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article
Post by Rich
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Rich
Interesting thread. It reminded me that I have Philips (PHCP-20425
Japan) Rosbaud /Concertgebouw- Stravinsky Petrouchka still in the wrap
on my shelf.  I looked back at some scans of old newspapers, and saw
that there was a telecast of the Rosbaud/CSO  in Ravel's Concerto for
the Left Hand with John Browning.  Maybe Don Tait can confirm this?
Rich
Interesting! What was the date? Was that on the program with the Magic
Flute overture?
--Jeff
Jeff,
Television listings from the San Diego Union (02-04-1962) for the 9 PM
time slot on Channel 11 show "Great Music from Chicago" Hans Rosbaud
and Robert Casadesus (60 minutes). Probably wrong. Other viewing
options for the 9PM slot were "The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Danny
Thomas Show".
Another listing from the San Diego Union (1962-03-11) for the 9 PM
time slot: "Guest conductor is Hans Rosbaud who leads Beethoven's
Overture to Egmont, Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand, and Roussel's
Third Symphony." (Great Music from Chicago-60 minutes) If you
didn't want to watch the CSO Rosbaud you could switch over to Channel
6 and see an episode of Surfside- "Daphne and Ken face a criminal-
minded beatnik in a home for the aged"
A 1963-04-20 Illinois Register TV listing has a 3:30 PM slot for
"Great Music from Chicago" with Hans Rosbaud and John Browning
(pianist) in a program of Beethoven and Ravel on Channel 39 presented
by John O. Smyth Furniture Oil. That concert was probably iffy
because at 1 PM on Channel 39 there was a live broadcast of the Reds
and Pirates game. Prior to baseball ...Championship Bridge....
Rich, I think you get the prize for "best hoarder of old newspapers"
here.

-Owen

P.S. Minor nit - but I believe the competing TV show on Channel 6 was
Surfside-Six. Luckily, Daphne and Ken survived their encounter.

-O
D***@aol.com
2012-03-23 21:04:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich
Interesting thread. It reminded me that I have Philips (PHCP-20425
Japan) Rosbaud /Concertgebouw- Stravinsky Petrouchka still in the wrap
on my shelf.  I looked back at some scans of old newspapers, and saw
that there was a telecast of the Rosbaud/CSO  in Ravel's Concerto for
the Left Hand with John Browning.  Maybe Don Tait can confirm this?
Rich
Yes, there was such a telecast and it might exist. At least the
audio portion. I remember watching the original in the early '60s.

Don Tait
Al Eisner
2012-03-22 22:13:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
....  My specific questions are about the Mahler -- two incarnations
of # 7, one each of  #1 and  4, but would also be interested in any
other strong recommendations from the list.
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
Not a bad option since Urania is the other label that has issued this.
I don't know who else. Plus the coupling should be nice (I don't think
I've heard it.)
Any comment on the performance? If highly recommended, I'm more likely to
try this than a Mahler 1 -- although based on your characterizations of
Rosbaud's Mahler, I'm potentially most interested in 7.
Post by jrsnfld
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
Might as well get it, or better yet get the Haydn and Mozart from
Pierre Paquin, who couples them with the Brahms Serenade 2 and Mozart
K388.
Amazon-US lists this set as an import for over $38, and the cover photo
shows a note that includes a booklet in 5 languages. So maybe it is
not quite fly-by-night? You say below you wouldn't trust Archipel for the
Mahler 7, but you didn't make that comment for this one, so ....
Amazon (as well as MDT) also lists the Vox (with Bruckner 4). I couldn't
find a web site for "Monograph" but it is listed on the Qualiton site
(one of just two releases), so maybe that is the distributor? One bit of
information from there is that the contents are live.

MDT (but not Amazon) also lists a Mahler 7 with Baden-Baden on Wergo.
Are folks reocmmending Rosbaud's 7 referring to the Berlin Radio performance?
Post by jrsnfld
MEMORIES (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #1. (Berlin Philharmonic/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. 'live', 10/55)
Well worth getting; there's an SWR Mahler 1 and a Dresden Mahler 1
floating around, but this will be a good one to have. I haven't heard
it on Memories, but it's a label that's usually ok.
URANIA (1-CD): Bruckner, Symphony #8. (Baden-Baden Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1951)
Bleah..incomplete version of the performance; wretched label.
That's okay, little interest in Bruckner anyway. :)
Post by jrsnfld
ARCHIPEL (2-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerti
#'s 9 {w.Berlin State Opera Orch. Rec. 4/28/37 & 9/29/36}, 20 & 25
{w.Philharmonia Orch. Rec. 8/53}; Horn Concerto #2 {w.Baden-Baden
Radio Orch. Rec. 5/6/53}; Piano Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter
Gieseking, piano. Dennis Brain, horn. Hans Rosbaud, conductor)
I don't know how else to get all of these right now. The Mozart with
Brain was once the coupling (on Arkadia) for Bruckner 3. The Mozart is
superb (no matter what you think of Gieseking).
APR (1-CD): Beethoven, Piano Concerto #1. Mozart, Piano Concerto #9
{w.Berlin State Opera Orch./ Rosbaud. Rec. 4/2/37 & 9/29/36}; Piano
Sonata K.570 {rec. 9/30/36}. (Walter Gieseking, piano)
Better label, right? No hesitation unless you bought the other as a
better value.
I don't know much Gieseking, but will likely try this APR. But then maybe
the Archipel, which is only $1 more with three extra concertos! You've
sold me on something, anyway.
Post by jrsnfld
ARCHIPEL (1-CD): Mahler, Symphony #7. (Berlin Radio Orch./
Rosbaud. Rec. 1953)
There are labels I trust more with this Mahler 7 (Ramon mentioned the
issue on Phoenix, the Italian label). And unlike Ramon I happen to
like the Mahler 7 on Vox anyway. So personally, I wouldn't rate this
too highly for a beginning, because the sound on Archipel is only so-
so, usually, but it's probably so cheap that you don't lose much by
getting it and the performance is definitely worthwhile. I don't know
the disc first hand.
WALHALL (2-CD): Mozart, Cosi Fan Tutte. (Teresa Stich-Randall, Teresa
Berganza, Rolando Panerai, Luigi Alva, Mariella Adani, Marcello Cortis
et al. Paris Conservatory Orchestra & Chorus/ Hans
Rosbaud. Rec. Aix-en-Provence Festival, 1957)
I don't have it on this label, but I would get it this way if
necessary.
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
I would grab it; Preiser's usually good. I have it on INA.
Maybe, but not really in teh market for this....

Thanks again.
--
Al Eisner
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 04:25:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
Not a bad option since Urania is the other label that has issued this.
I don't know who else. Plus the coupling should be nice (I don't think
I've heard it.)
Any comment on the performance?   If highly recommended, I'm more likely to
try this than a Mahler 1 -- although based on your characterizations of
Rosbaud's Mahler, I'm potentially most interested in 7.
Performance of 4 is an eye-opener. Someone else posted a review which
is quite accurate. You might think Szell and Van Beinum, but the way
Rosbaud manages the flow of the piece is, if anything, more natural,
more disciplined, more rewarding than Szell. I'm a fan of Van Beinum
as well, but I think Rosbaud is definitely as good or better an
interpretation (if not better overall in terms of playing etc.). If
the Archipel is decent (as the review indicates), then don't hesitate.
It's special.
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
Might as well get it, or better yet get the Haydn and Mozart from
Pierre Paquin, who couples them with the Brahms Serenade 2 and Mozart
K388.
Amazon-US lists this set as an import for over $38, and the cover photo
shows a note that includes a booklet in 5 languages.  So maybe it is
not quite fly-by-night?  You say below you wouldn't trust Archipel for the
Mahler 7, but you didn't make that comment for this one, so ....
Amazon (as well as MDT) also lists the Vox (with Bruckner 4).  I couldn't
find a web site for "Monograph" but it is listed on the Qualiton site
(one of just two releases), so maybe that is the distributor?  One bit of
information from there is that the contents are live.
The contents aren't live as far as I can tell from the transfer I
have. I don't remember if I've bought anything on Monograph, so I'm
suspicious, but not sure. Hopefully someone else can tell you about
the label. I highly recommend Pierre's HaydnHouse transfer because it
contains the Brahms and Mozart serenades. Mahler 7 can be bought in
many other ways including...
MDT (but not Amazon) also lists a Mahler 7 with Baden-Baden on Wergo.
Are folks reocmmending Rosbaud's 7 referring to the Berlin Radio performance?
Ramon recommended the performance on Phoenix. That happens to be the
same Mahler 7 from Baden-Baden as the one on Wergo. Or at least, it is
the 20 February performance whereas the Wergo is combined from 18 Feb.
and 20 Feb 1957. Either way the difference is going to be slight, but
Wergo is a bona fide official release, I believe. And that series is
usually outstanding quality (like the Messiaen Turangalila, the
various Schoenberg, and Schubert 9 releases). So...get the Wergo. The
Berlin Radio performance is the one commonly and cheaply found on Vox.
It's perfectly fine for getting Rosbaud's interpretation--a colorful,
seathing, expressionist performance under iron grip (even if the
orchestra strikes some people as barely adequate--an opinion that I
don't share, or I don't care).

If it helps, the late lamented Tony Duggan liked the Wergo better than
the Vox, too. You can find his comments on musicweb. Personally, I've
never really thought to compare. I like them both, and haven't tried
to compare, but if pushed into a corner I'd have to go with the Baden-
Baden performance, so I'd go with Wergo.
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
I would grab it; Preiser's usually good. I have it on INA.
Maybe, but not really in teh market for this....
I thought his accompaniment on the piano was divine. There's something
about hearing a conductor do his thing on the piano that is much more
direct evidence about his musicianship than hearing what he does with
an orchestra. But, in any case, perhaps it really is for Rosbaud
completists. Stich-Randall is certainly good, but not necessarily
enough reason to buy this just for her.

--Jeff
Al Eisner
2012-03-23 23:56:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
ARCHIPEL (1-CD: Mahler, Symphony #4 [w.Eva-Maria Rogner,
soprano]. Wagner, Prelude to Act I of 'Parsifal'. (Both w.SW German
Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden/ Hans Rosbaud. Rec. 5/14/59 and
10/25/57. Total time: 78'11')
Not a bad option since Urania is the other label that has issued this.
I don't know who else. Plus the coupling should be nice (I don't think
I've heard it.)
Any comment on the performance?   If highly recommended, I'm more likely to
try this than a Mahler 1 -- although based on your characterizations of
Rosbaud's Mahler, I'm potentially most interested in 7.
Performance of 4 is an eye-opener. Someone else posted a review which
is quite accurate. You might think Szell and Van Beinum, but the way
Rosbaud manages the flow of the piece is, if anything, more natural,
more disciplined, more rewarding than Szell. I'm a fan of Van Beinum
as well, but I think Rosbaud is definitely as good or better an
interpretation (if not better overall in terms of playing etc.). If
the Archipel is decent (as the review indicates), then don't hesitate.
It's special.
Thanks -- yes, I saw that posted review only after I had posted my
question.
Post by jrsnfld
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
MONOGRAPH (2-CD): Haydn, Symphony #82. Mozart, Symphonies 39 & 41
[Bavarian Radio Orchestra/ Hans Rosbaud]. Mahler, Symphony #7 [Berlin
Radio Orchestra/ Rosbaud]. (Total time: 152'19')
Might as well get it, or better yet get the Haydn and Mozart from
Pierre Paquin, who couples them with the Brahms Serenade 2 and Mozart
K388.
Amazon-US lists this set as an import for over $38, and the cover photo
shows a note that includes a booklet in 5 languages.  So maybe it is
not quite fly-by-night?  You say below you wouldn't trust Archipel for the
Mahler 7, but you didn't make that comment for this one, so ....
Amazon (as well as MDT) also lists the Vox (with Bruckner 4).  I couldn't
find a web site for "Monograph" but it is listed on the Qualiton site
(one of just two releases), so maybe that is the distributor?  One bit of
information from there is that the contents are live.
The contents aren't live as far as I can tell from the transfer I
have. I don't remember if I've bought anything on Monograph, so I'm
suspicious, but not sure. Hopefully someone else can tell you about
the label. I highly recommend Pierre's HaydnHouse transfer because it
contains the Brahms and Mozart serenades. Mahler 7 can be bought in
many other ways including...
MDT (but not Amazon) also lists a Mahler 7 with Baden-Baden on Wergo.
Are folks reocmmending Rosbaud's 7 referring to the Berlin Radio performance?
Ramon recommended the performance on Phoenix. That happens to be the
same Mahler 7 from Baden-Baden as the one on Wergo. Or at least, it is
the 20 February performance whereas the Wergo is combined from 18 Feb.
and 20 Feb 1957. Either way the difference is going to be slight, but
Wergo is a bona fide official release, I believe. And that series is
usually outstanding quality (like the Messiaen Turangalila, the
various Schoenberg, and Schubert 9 releases). So...get the Wergo. The
Berlin Radio performance is the one commonly and cheaply found on Vox.
It's perfectly fine for getting Rosbaud's interpretation--a colorful,
seathing, expressionist performance under iron grip (even if the
orchestra strikes some people as barely adequate--an opinion that I
don't share, or I don't care).
If it helps, the late lamented Tony Duggan liked the Wergo better than
the Vox, too. You can find his comments on musicweb. Personally, I've
never really thought to compare. I like them both, and haven't tried
to compare, but if pushed into a corner I'd have to go with the Baden-
Baden performance, so I'd go with Wergo.
Again, thanks for the detailed response. Those Baden-Baden recommendations
pretty much clinch which way I should go. Frankly, my inability to find
out anything at all about Monograph (except for various dealers selling
their set, and the just-two items listed by Qualiton) made me too
suspicious of them to want puruse that path.
Post by jrsnfld
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Al Eisner
PREISER (1-CD): Strauss, Four Lieder, Op.22. Debussy, Four Ariettes
Oubliees + Asstd. Songs by Mozart, Schubert, Brahms &
Schumann. (Teresa Stich-Randall in recital. With Hans Rosbaud,
piano. Rec. Aix-en Provence Festival, 7/31/56)
I would grab it; Preiser's usually good. I have it on INA.
Maybe, but not really in teh market for this....
I thought his accompaniment on the piano was divine. There's something
about hearing a conductor do his thing on the piano that is much more
direct evidence about his musicianship than hearing what he does with
an orchestra. But, in any case, perhaps it really is for Rosbaud
completists. Stich-Randall is certainly good, but not necessarily
enough reason to buy this just for her.
Again, comments much appreciated. But in this case it's not sufficient
to acquire a recording I'm otherwise not greating interested in. You're
evidently more of a connoisseur than I am. :)

Among the broinc offerings, then, I expect to go ahead with the Mahler 4
and with the Mozart concertos. Other stuff from elsewhere in the future,
no doubt.
--
Al Eisner
Oscar
2012-03-20 21:41:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of modern
music.
Words to the wise, Jeff. I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued. Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2. Great CD
http://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Frank Berger
2012-03-21 01:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Oscar
Post by jrsnfld
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of modern
music.
Words to the wise, Jeff. I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued. Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2. Great CD
http://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Frank Berger
2012-03-21 01:29:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Oscar
Post by jrsnfld
My advice is--don't miss any Rosbaud recording, especially of modern
music.
Words to the wise, Jeff. I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued. Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2. Great CD
http://tiny.cc/2snhbw
These were all included in the DG Rosbaud box.
Oscar
2012-03-21 03:31:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Words to the wise, Jeff.  I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued.  Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2.  Great CD
http://tiny.cc/2snhbw
These were all included in the DG Rosbaud box.
Oh, good to know. I'll have to track that one down.
Johannes Roehl
2012-03-21 15:00:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Oscar
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Oscar
Words to the wise, Jeff. I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued. Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2. Great CD
http://tiny.cc/2snhbw
These were all included in the DG Rosbaud box.
Oh, good to know. I'll have to track that one down.
Yes, this box is certainly worthwhile. The Haydn (92 and 104) has been
praised already, these are among the best recordings of these pieces
(only the menuet in 104 is too slow for my taste). Although I am not the
greatest Sibelius fan the clarity of Rosbaud's approach works marvellous
here, IMO. The Blacher and Stravinsky (Petrouchka) are also very
interesting.
Tassilo
2012-03-23 05:06:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto
has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I don't know
anything about the quality of the transfer:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//8802050.htm

-Tassilo
td
2012-03-23 09:45:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto
has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics.  I don't know
You don't have to wonder.

It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.

Jesus!

I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if they
have any dust in them.

TD
Gerard
2012-03-23 09:57:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if they
have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had deficiencies. I
remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich were reported here. But there
was more.
John Wiser
2012-03-23 10:57:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if they
have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had deficiencies. I
remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich were reported here. But there
was more.
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.

JDW
td
2012-03-23 11:07:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Wiser
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if they
have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had deficiencies. I
remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich were reported here. But there
was more.
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Wrong.

TD
Rene Gagnaux
2012-03-23 12:20:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Wiser
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Es heisst *Der* ...kopf ;-)

Salut
René
--
Adresse à laquelle on peut toujours m'atteindre:
reneonnews<aroba>renegagnaux<point>ch

http://www.renegagnaux.ch
Gerard
2012-03-23 12:59:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rene Gagnaux
Post by John Wiser
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Es heisst *Der* ...kopf ;-)
Sure.
Even name calling is no longer what it has been in the past.
td
2012-03-23 18:56:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by Rene Gagnaux
Post by John Wiser
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Es heisst *Der* ...kopf ;-)
Sure.
Even name calling is no longer what it has been in the past.
Wiser tries to be wise, as well as cute. He doesn't always succeed in
either.

TD
Gerard
2012-03-23 19:25:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Gerard
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:57:47 -0400, "John Wiser"
Post by John Wiser
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Es heisst *Der* ...kopf ;-)
Sure.
Even name calling is no longer what it has been in the past.
Wiser tries to be wise, as well as cute. He doesn't always succeed in
either.
TD
He's even more predictable than wagner rat.
Matthew B. Tepper
2012-03-23 14:31:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Rene Gagnaux <***@renegagnaux.ch> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:djqom7dd9di1v6l0kpig9g1gbg6tjv5793
Post by Rene Gagnaux
Post by John Wiser
Die Scheißkopf hat recht, dieses mal.
Es heisst *Der* ...kopf ;-)
Salut
René
I am reminded of the following line from "The Private Life of Sherlock
Holmes":

"Unter *den* Schloss."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
td
2012-03-23 11:06:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if they
have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had deficiencies. I
remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich were reported here. But there
was more.
I have no knowledge of such "deficiencies", Gerard. There may, of
course, be pressing defects in CDs from time to time. It happened much
more often with LPs, I seem to recall.

But Philips would not send out a faulty mastertape to Newton. No, not
ever.

TD
Gerard
2012-03-23 11:37:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if
they have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had
deficiencies. I remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich
were reported here. But there was more.
I have no knowledge of such "deficiencies", Gerard. There may, of
course, be pressing defects in CDs from time to time. It happened much
more often with LPs, I seem to recall.
But Philips would not send out a faulty mastertape to Newton. No, not
ever.
That could be right.
But newton classics did screw it up a few times.
Newton classics was to blame.
The Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich case probably can still be found in the
archives.
AFAIK they (newton classics) corrected their mistakes in a new take. I don't
know how the buyers of the defective sets were treated (if they could get
replacements easily).
td
2012-03-23 18:55:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton Classics. I
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see if
they have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had
deficiencies. I remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich
were reported here. But there was more.
I have no knowledge of such "deficiencies", Gerard. There may, of
course, be pressing defects in CDs from time to time. It happened much
more often with LPs, I seem to recall.
But Philips would not send out a faulty mastertape to Newton. No, not
ever.
That could be right.
But newton classics did screw it up a few times.
Newton classics was to blame.
The Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich case probably can still be found in the
archives.
AFAIK they (newton classics) corrected their mistakes in a new take. I don't
know how the buyers of the defective sets were treated (if they could get
replacements easily).
Usually these are replaced graciously and quickly. Mistakes are made
in any product. The point is to correct them.

But this is no reason to question the "master" used by Newton. They
officially license from Universal, so the only master they would use
would come from the company owning the repertoire. The Markevich
problems seem to have been in the manufacturing, not the mastering. I
certainly have no problems with my Markevich CDs, which are Philips
products manufactured in Hannover.

TD
Gerard
2012-03-23 19:28:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Gerard
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
FWIW, the Casadesus/Rosbaud recording of Beethoven's Emperor
Concerto has just been reissued on the label Newton
Classics. I don't know anything about the quality of the
You don't have to wonder.
It is a Philips master and a Philips master would have been used.
Jesus!
I wonder if you check your Rice Crispies every morning to see
if they have any dust in them.
TD
The question is fully legitimate.
It has happened a few times that reissues by newton classics had
deficiencies. I remember the Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich
were reported here. But there was more.
I have no knowledge of such "deficiencies", Gerard. There may, of
course, be pressing defects in CDs from time to time. It happened
much more often with LPs, I seem to recall.
But Philips would not send out a faulty mastertape to Newton. No,
not ever.
That could be right.
But newton classics did screw it up a few times.
Newton classics was to blame.
The Tchaikovsky symphonies by Markevich case probably can still be
found in the archives.
AFAIK they (newton classics) corrected their mistakes in a new
take. I don't know how the buyers of the defective sets were
treated (if they could get replacements easily).
Usually these are replaced graciously and quickly. Mistakes are made
in any product. The point is to correct them.
But this is no reason to question the "master" used by Newton. They
officially license from Universal, so the only master they would use
would come from the company owning the repertoire. The Markevich
problems seem to have been in the manufacturing, not the mastering. I
certainly have no problems with my Markevich CDs, which are Philips
products manufactured in Hannover.
TD
I don't see your point.
The question was not about the Philips master. But about the 'transfer'.
Maybe those are the same things. But I've interpreted it as "what newton
classics did with the master".
Tassilo
2012-03-22 11:12:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Words to the wise, Jeff.  I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued.  Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2.  Great CDhttp://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Those recordings were reissued in the second of two Domaine musical
boxe sets:

http://tinyurl.com/75gao57

Indeed, the recordings were made in Paris directly following a
performance sponsored by the Domaine musical.

-Tassilo
wade
2012-03-22 14:02:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Words to the wise, Jeff.  I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued.  Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2.  Great CDhttp://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Those recordings were reissued in the second of two Domaine musical
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
Indeed, the recordings were made in Paris directly following a
performance sponsored by the Domaine musical.
-Tassilo
All the now Universal-owned Rosbauds were issued in one of those DG
Original Masters collectors boxes (3 CDs), including the Westminster
(mono) that had the Stravinsky/Berg/Webern compilation.
Frank Berger
2012-03-22 15:04:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Words to the wise, Jeff. I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued. Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2. Great
CDhttp://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Those recordings were reissued in the second of two Domaine musical
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
Indeed, the recordings were made in Paris directly following a
performance sponsored by the Domaine musical.
-Tassilo
You've linked to a Boulez set. As I've already pointed out, DG issued these
recordiings in a Rosbaud box in 2004. It's NLA, of course, execept for
download. Didn't see any used copies either.

http://tinyurl.com/7nfjtkp
Tassilo
2012-03-23 03:51:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
You've linked to a Boulez set.
Is that a crime now? The set in question includes precisely the
Rosbaud recordings that were under discussion:

http://tinyurl.com/75gao57

They’re included in the set because the concert that preceded the
recordings was sponsored by the Domaine musical, and the recordings
were made in Paris immediately following the performance.

Next time I contemplate posting information that someone might find
useful, I’ll refrain lest it offend you.

-dg
Frank Berger
2012-03-23 06:21:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Post by Frank Berger
You've linked to a Boulez set.
Is that a crime now? The set in question includes precisely the
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
They’re included in the set because the concert that preceded the
recordings was sponsored by the Domaine musical, and the recordings
were made in Paris immediately following the performance.
Next time I contemplate posting information that someone might find
useful, I’ll refrain lest it offend you.
-dg
I don't understand your hostility all at all. I clicked on your link and
found a CD entitled "Pierre Boulez....." I see nothing about Rosbaud, so
it looked like you posted a wrong link. That wouldn't be a "crime," just a
mistake, which we can all make. I was pointing out the mistake, that's all.
If for some reason, your link really is to a Rosbaud recording (which I
doubt), then I've made a mistake, which wouldn't be the first, and which
also isn't a crime.

Now, I ask you, what is the reason for your hostile response?
td
2012-03-23 09:50:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
You've linked to a Boulez set.
Is that a crime now?  The set in question includes precisely the
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
They’re included in the set because the concert that preceded the
recordings was sponsored by the Domaine musical, and the recordings
were made in Paris immediately following the performance.
Next time I contemplate posting information that someone might find
useful, I’ll refrain lest it offend you.
-dg
I don't understand your hostility all at all.  I clicked on your link and
found a CD entitled "Pierre Boulez....."  I see nothing about Rosbaud,  so
it looked like you posted a wrong link.  That wouldn't be a "crime," just a
mistake, which we can all make.  I was pointing out the mistake, that's all.
If for some reason, your link really is to a Rosbaud recording (which I
doubt), then I've made a mistake, which wouldn't be the first, and which
also isn't a crime.
Now, I ask you, what is the reason for your hostile response?
Avant gardists tend to be prickly. They have such a difficult time
defending their tastes it becomes a constant posture.

Don't fret about it.

TD
John Wiser
2012-03-23 11:03:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Tassilo
Post by Frank Berger
You've linked to a Boulez set.
Is that a crime now? The set in question includes precisely the
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
They’re included in the set because the concert that preceded the
recordings was sponsored by the Domaine musical, and the recordings
were made in Paris immediately following the performance.
Next time I contemplate posting information that someone might find
useful, I’ll refrain lest it offend you.
-dg
I don't understand your hostility all at all. I clicked on your link and
found a CD entitled "Pierre Boulez....." I see nothing about Rosbaud, so
it looked like you posted a wrong link. That wouldn't be a "crime," just
a mistake, which we can all make. I was pointing out the mistake, that's
all. If for some reason, your link really is to a Rosbaud recording (which
I doubt), then I've made a mistake, which wouldn't be the first, and which
also isn't a crime.
Now, I ask you, what is the reason for your hostile response?
I think, Frank, that David has noticed
that you are
among other things
an abrasive asshole,
a master of the passive-aggressive whine
and has elected to answer
as you deserve

JDW
Steve Emerson
2012-03-22 18:17:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article
Post by Tassilo
Words to the wise, Jeff.  I found a magnificent example of Rosbaud's
podium magic in the used bins a few years ago, don't think it has been
reissued.  Stravinsky: Agon, Berg: Three Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6,
Webern: Six Pieces For Orchestra, Op. 6, on Ades 14 066-2.  Great
CDhttp://tiny.cc/2snhbw
Those recordings were reissued in the second of two Domaine musical
http://tinyurl.com/75gao57
Indeed, the recordings were made in Paris directly following a
performance sponsored by the Domaine musical.
And they were done by Vega, according to the American LP issue on
Westminster (Collectors Series W-9709 / 18807). Much the same as
Loriod's first 20 Regards. All mono.

SE.
Tassilo
2012-03-23 04:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
After I remarked that Rosbaud’s recordings of Berg’s op. 6, Webern’s
op. 6, and Stravinsky’s Agon were recorded in Paris following a
[they] were done by Vega, according to the American LP issue on
Westminster (Collectors Series W-9709 / 18807). Much the same as
Loriod's first 20 Regards. All mono.
SE.
Exactement. Véga was one of the two French labels on which all of the
Domaine musical recordings were released. The other was Adès. Both
were founded by Lucien Adès to record the various ensembles of the
Domaine musical. The record jacket covers of the Véga recordings were
designed by such fellow travelers of the Domaine musical as Joan Miró,
Nicolas de Stael, and André Masson. (André Masson’s son, Diego,
eventually performed as a percussionist on concerts of the Domaine
musical. Today he is a distinguished conductor of contemporary
music.)

Following Rosbaud’s performance of Agon, Boulez presented Stravinsky
with an inscribed copy of Jacques Schérer’s edition of the sketches
for Mallarmé’s unfinished Livre.

-david gable
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 14:28:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really special?
Come to think of it, there is one warning to convey...Rosbaud's
Bruckner 8 was mangled in its Urania release. Some of the music is
missing. (Plus the sound on that label is usually atrocious.) So, I
will put up with their CD of his Mahler 4 (coupled with the Brahms
Alto Rhapsody), which is a fascinating, flowing account, but as good
as the Bruckner 8 is, you might as well forget about that CD and hope
that Hanssler puts out a complete account of that. It shouldn't be too
hard to find Bruckner 3, 5 or 7, all outstanding. There is more
Bruckner in archives that, hopefully, will see the light of day.

--Jeff
rkhalona
2012-03-20 23:03:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really special?
Come to think of it, there is one warning to convey...Rosbaud's
Bruckner 8 was mangled in its Urania release. Some of the music is
missing. (Plus the sound on that label is usually atrocious.)
I would add another caveat: Get his Mahler 7th on Phoenix, not the
one on Vox.

RK
Terry
2012-03-20 14:52:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:26:02 +1100, mandryka wrote
(in article
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are really special?
Is Helmut Meichert the same person as Helmut Melchert? Or are there two
tenors with such very similar names?
--
Cheers!

Terry
jrsnfld
2012-03-20 15:47:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Terry
(in article
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud  by his Haydn symphony records on DG. They
are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played, with
moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and love some
of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler 6, a
performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient recording
of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are  really special?
Is Helmut Meichert the same person as Helmut Melchert? Or are there two
tenors with such very similar names?
--
Cheers!
Terry
Melchert. The other DLvDE on CD has Haefliger.

--Jeff
Frank Berger
2012-03-20 16:03:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by Terry
(in article
Post by mandryka
The more I listen to this conductor the more impressed I am.
I first got to know Rosbaud by his Haydn symphony records on DG.
They are close to my ideal of how Haydn’s music should be played,
with moments of sudden intensity. Since then I’ve got to know and
love some of the recordings on symphonyshare, especially a Mahler
6, a performance of Britten’s Serenade with Pears and an ancient
recording of a transcription of Debussy’s Epigraphes Antiques.
Other things I’ve enjoyed are a superb Lied von der Erde – with
extraordinary clarity and feeling in the orchestral part and a
wonderful tenor (Helmut Meichert.) And quite recently I started to
play his spooky interpretation of Bartok sonata for percussion and
piano a lot, with great pleasure.
So what other Rosbaud records would you say are really special?
Is Helmut Meichert the same person as Helmut Melchert? Or are there
two tenors with such very similar names?
--
Cheers!
Terry
Melchert. The other DLvDE on CD has Haefliger.
--Jeff
I don't know which spelling is right, but it sometimes appears, even on the
label, as Meichert.
Tassilo
2012-03-22 11:22:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
issued by the orchestra itself:

ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)

-dg
td
2012-03-22 12:32:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place among the great conductors of his day.

Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.

I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.

A great pity, I should think, as I am sure he would have enhanced many
world-class orchestras with his musicianship.

Another example of Rosbaud's era would be Ernest Bour, I guess.

Of contemporary conductors he reminds me most of Gielen, perhaps,
whose musicianship is equally outstanding and who has made a career
with second tier orchestras in Germany after a brief tenure in
Cincinnati, of all places. And Pierre Boulez. Boulez has the
additional cache of being a composer. Not that so many are really
panting to hear Pli selon Pli, I should think. And few would ever want
to hear him conduct Mozart, Haydn, or even Beethoven, let alone
Schubert or Brahms. (The audience of the NYPhil put paid to his career
as a Music Director of that orchestra in short order as a result)

There may be others who spring to mind, of course. But these two
strike me most clearly at the moment.

TD
D***@aol.com
2012-03-22 21:43:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
That is incorrect on several counts.

First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963. He would never
have taken the CSO position.

Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.

Don Tait
jrsnfld
2012-03-22 22:22:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
Rosbaud's reputation amongst musicians is, remains, about as high as
could be. Which raises the question: how does one gauge whether
someone has "taken his place among the great conductors"? By the most
important measure--the esteem of his colleagues--Rosbaud has a secure
place among the greatest. Whether or not people like Legge and Culshaw
agreed is entirely secondary.

--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
2012-03-23 01:25:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
jrsnfld <***@aol.com> appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:b9454ef6-0562-4fe8-a08f-ca54bdc738b8
Rosbaud's reputation amongst musicians is, remains, about as high as could
be. Which raises the question: how does one gauge whether someone has
"taken his place among the great conductors"? By the most important
measure--the esteem of his colleagues--Rosbaud has a secure place among the
greatest. Whether or not people like Legge and Culshaw agreed is entirely
secondary.
Not to mention industry gnats such as Roger Hall, who refused to all Erich
Leinsdorf to record a Schumann symphony in Boston because "it wouldn't sell."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
td
2012-03-23 09:39:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Rosbaud's reputation amongst musicians is, remains, about as high as
could be. Which raises the question: how does one gauge whether
someone has "taken his place among the great conductors"?
Well, USUALLY, it would mean that he led one of the great orchestral
ensembles for a considerable period of time.

However high the esteem of his colleagues, whatever his reputation
today, during his lifetime Rosbaud was the conductor of second string
ensembles.

TD
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 19:45:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
Rosbaud's reputation amongst musicians is, remains, about as high as
could be. Which raises the question: how does one gauge whether
someone has "taken his place among the great conductors"?
Well, USUALLY, it would mean that he led one of the great orchestral
ensembles for a considerable period of time.
Only a few conductors lead the greatest ensembles. It would stand to
reason that the conductors who combine relentless ambition with
requisite talent get those jobs. They are well suited to the task, but
quite likely most great conductors take lower profile career paths.
Asahina comes to mind. So does Gielen. Anyone whose heard recordings
of Maderna and Webern can tell they were great conducting talents but
had other interests. No one commands more respect in the musical
world, as a conductor, than Boulez, but he doesn't meet your criteria
either. And I'll bet, by your reckoning, Wand, Skrowaczewski, Asahina,
Desormiere, Baudo, Matacic, de Sabata, Walter, Kubelik, and others
fall short, yet if you ask musicians, they wouldn't hesitate to
consider such people as great conductors.

The pinnacle of Giulini's job hunting was a relatively brief stint in
Los Angeles. He was, of course, a welcome Principal Guest in Chicago
for a few years, but Rosbaud was practically the same status before
they ever figured to make it a titled position. Does this mean Giulini
was not a "great"?

I can think of others who are/were outstanding conductors who never
had a music directorship of a "great" ensemble for a "considerable"
period of time. It all depends on how you define these terms. But the
odds are, "usually (i.e., most of) the great ones do not hold such
jobs or for such periods of time.

--Jeff
td
2012-03-23 09:37:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
Wrong?

You are going on a few Rosbaud concerts in Chicago, Don. Time to look
to his career in Germany.

TD
D***@aol.com
2012-03-23 21:24:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
Wrong?
You are going on a few Rosbaud concerts in Chicago, Don. Time to look
to his career in Germany.
TD
So you assume and tell people that I have not? Why have you made
that assumption without discussion with me?

You of course own and have read Hans Rosbaud: A Bio-Bibliography by
Joan Evans (Foreward by Pierre Boulez). Greenwood Press, 1992. Lots of
information about Rosbaud's entire life and career.

What do you think about the book and what it says about Rosbaud in
Hitler's Germany and the immediate aftermath? Do you agree with what
it says or not? Since you know all about it, what is your opinion?

Don Tait
rkhalona
2012-03-23 18:50:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document. He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man. Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
When one pages through Evans' listing of his radio recordings (the
vast majority of which remain in the vaults) one is simply
flabbergasted
at the quantity, variety and range of the music this man knew and
conducted. It is almost superhuman.
The fact that he did most of it with such quality makes it even more
unbelievable.

Here's a wild dream: Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition. Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.

RK

RK
td
2012-03-23 19:00:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document.  He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man.  Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.

But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)

TD
FrankB
2012-03-23 20:13:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document.  He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man.  Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)
TD
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
rkhalona
2012-03-23 20:44:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by FrankB
Post by td
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document.  He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man.  Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)
TD
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
As an esteemed and most welcome guest, I am sure. And therein lies
the issue.
The 'majors' want music directors who are not only competent
musically, but also box office hits
with 'personality'.

RK
John Thomas
2012-03-23 21:58:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article
Post by rkhalona
Post by FrankB
Post by td
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document.  He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man.  Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)
TD
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
As an esteemed and most welcome guest, I am sure. And therein lies
the issue.
The 'majors' want music directors who are not only competent
musically, but also box office hits
with 'personality'.
RK
They want charming money raisers. Think of Blomstedt in San Francisco
and then Tilson-Thomas.
--
John Thomas
td
2012-03-23 22:41:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
In article
Post by FrankB
Post by td
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers
he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast
array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is
that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record
companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral
ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of
his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions
in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions
he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document.  He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man.  Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)
TD
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
As an esteemed and most welcome guest, I am sure.  And therein lies
the issue.
The 'majors' want music directors who are not only competent
musically, but also box office hits
with 'personality'.
RK
They want charming money raisers.  Think of Blomstedt in San Francisco
and then Tilson-Thomas.
I assume you are not intending to discount MTT's musicianship?

In any event, symphony orchestras are businesses, albeit not for
profit businesses, which need donations to sustain their activities.
Conductors help to do that. In the past many managed not to do that,
but those were different times. Today, all hands on deck, including
MTT. One can well imagine Eschenbach wasn't much good at raising
money. If he HAD been, all doors would have opened for him. In the
end, they shut and people started to talk about his repertoire
choices. Difficult music. It was ever thus.

TD
Gerard
2012-03-23 23:06:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
In article
Post by rkhalona
Post by FrankB
Post by td
Post by rkhalona
Post by D***@aol.com
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one
of those massive compilations of live recordings of
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29
[sic], 1961) BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces
(Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that
Rosbaud's predilection for avant-garde music doomed his
chances of taking his (rightful?) place among the great
conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et
al., at least that is the conclusion one draws from the
list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on
a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also
true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major
record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take
on such a musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the
major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks
enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director
positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the
decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is
clear that he was considered by the musical establishment
to be out of the mainstream and therefore just beyond the
pale. It is also possible that he was uncompromising in
his tastes.
That is incorrect on several counts.
First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's
health had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could
not continue as the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous
choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd
been asked. And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it
up. I have been told about a meeting at which the CSO's
then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the
trumpeter Bud Herseth (who like all CSO musicians
worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd seen Rosbaud without a
high collar and that his neck had ghastly cancerous ulcers.
The cancer killed him in late 1963. He would never have
taken the CSO position.
Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli,
Vivaldi, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2
for the ages, Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern
and Berg. His programs were stunningly varied. As was his
mastery.
Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have
wanted a music director post with a major orchestra that
the man was a musical technocrat, besides being an
intellectual who was interested in many other subjects, as
Boulez, Evans and others amply document. He was absorbed with
music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I
conclude he was a wise man. Playing the jet set conductor was
probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been
enticed to play such a creature was certainly denied by his
illness.
That is certainly one way of looking at it.
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream: Someone comes along, digs out most or
all of the recordings in the vaults in good condition and
releases a Rosbaud Edition. Perhaps there won't be many
buyers, but I would be first in line.
And probably the last, too. (Please excuse the realism here)
TD
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and
also recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
As an esteemed and most welcome guest, I am sure. And therein lies
the issue.
The 'majors' want music directors who are not only competent
musically, but also box office hits
with 'personality'.
RK
They want charming money raisers. Think of Blomstedt in San Francisco
and then Tilson-Thomas.
That's about the US situation. The world is wider.
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 20:49:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by FrankB
Post by td
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
You and td have different ideas of what "available to him" means.
--Jeff
td
2012-03-23 21:34:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jrsnfld
Post by FrankB
Post by td
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
You and td have different ideas of what "available to him" means.
He also conducted in Chicago.

I am talking about tenure, long tenure, of a kind which will allow a
conductor to fashion a major ensemble into an instrument which serves
his artistic goals.

Charles Dutoit has also conducted every major ensemble in the world.
So?

TD
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 22:49:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by td
Post by jrsnfld
Post by FrankB
Post by td
But I somehow doubt that the BPO, VPO, LPO, PO etc., were really
available to him anyway, you know.
Actually Rosbaud conducted the Berlin Phil a number of times and also
recorded with them. Same with the Concertgebouw.
You and td have different ideas of what "available to him" means.
He also conducted in Chicago.
I am talking about tenure, long tenure, of a kind which will allow a
conductor to fashion a major ensemble into an instrument which serves
his artistic goals.
Charles Dutoit has also conducted every major ensemble in the world.
So?
And he's welcomed back again and again, everywhere. Meanwhile to his
credit he also had a long tenure with an orchestra you would consider
second- or third-string, but built its reputation far beyond
expectations, winning critical acclaim for recordings of standard
faire considered preferable in many cases to those from more august
orchestras and supposedly "greater" conductors. He fashioned an
underrated orchestra into a major instrument that served his goals
with extraordinary results.

--Jeff
wagnerfan
2012-03-23 19:05:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), rkhalona
Post by rkhalona
Post by td
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
What seems clear from all of the the posts above is that Rosbaud's
predilection for avant-garde music doomed his chances of taking his
(rightful?) place  among the great conductors of his day.
Yes, he did conduct Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert et al., at
least that is the conclusion one draws from the list of composers he
recorded or was recorded conducting "live" and issued on a vast array
of fly-by-night labels, mostly pirates. But what is also true is that
he could spit marbles with the best of them and major record companies
- EMI, DG, Decca, RCA Victor, Columbia - would not take on such a
musician for fear of poor sales. Ditto the major orchestral ensembles.
He could "guest" with the biggies - Don Tait speaks enticingly of his
concerts in Chicago, for example - but the Music Director positions in
these orchestras would simply not be available to him.
I make no judgment about Rosbaud's musical tastes or the decisions he
took which affected his career in this way. But it is clear that he
was considered by the musical establishment to be out of the
mainstream and therefore just beyond the pale. It is also possible
that he was uncompromising in his tastes.
  That is incorrect on several counts.
  First, when it became clear around 1961 that Fritz Reiner's health
had been so damaged after autumn 1960 that he could not continue as
the CSO's Music Director, the unanimous choice of the CSO musicians to
succeed him was Hans Rosbaud. That post was his, if we'd been asked.
And I know that Chicagoans would have backed it up. I have been told
about a meeting at which the CSO's then-manager Seymour Raven told the
musicians that Rosbaud would definitely get the position but -- he was
seriously ill and could not accept it. Indeed, the trumpeter Bud
Herseth (who like all CSO musicians worshipped Rosbaud) told me he'd
seen Rosbaud without a high collar and that his neck had ghastly
cancerous ulcers. The cancer killed him in late 1963.  He would never
have taken the CSO position.
  Rosbaud didn't program avant-garde things regularly at all.
Occasionally, yes. But I heard him conduct Andrea Gabrieli, Vivaldi,
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, a Schumann 2 for the ages,
Respighi, Faure, Roussel, Ravel...plus Webern and Berg. His programs
were stunningly varied. As was his mastery.
  Don Tait
There is another very simple reason why Rosbaud may not have wanted a
music director post with a major orchestra that
involved administration duties and the usual political BS: the man was
a musical technocrat, besides being an intellectual who was
interested in many other subjects, as Boulez, Evans and others amply
document. He was absorbed with music and loved it.
From everything I have read and heard about Rosbaud, I conclude he was
a wise man. Playing the jet set conductor was probably
not his cup of tea and any chance that he may have been enticed to
play such a creature was certainly denied by his illness.
When one pages through Evans' listing of his radio recordings (the
vast majority of which remain in the vaults) one is simply
flabbergasted
at the quantity, variety and range of the music this man knew and
conducted. It is almost superhuman.
The fact that he did most of it with such quality makes it even more
unbelievable.
Here's a wild dream: Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition. Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
RK
RK
And I'll be second. Wagner fan
jrsnfld
2012-03-23 19:08:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rkhalona
Here's a wild dream:  Someone comes along, digs out most or all of the
recordings in the vaults in good condition and releases a Rosbaud
Edition.  Perhaps there won't be many buyers, but I would be first in
line.
In your dreams!

In reality I will be there in line ahead of you... ;-)

--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
2012-03-22 14:31:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Tassilo <***@aol.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
be typed in news:db7cb07d-8c6c-4fe3-bdae-
Post by Tassilo
A handful of Rosbaud performances were included in one of those
massive compilations of live recordings of Concertgebouw material
ANTHOLOGY OF THE ROYAL CONCERTGEBOUW ORCHESTRA - Volume III
RCO LIVE RCO 05001 (14 CDS)
SCHUBERT: Symphony No. 4 in C minor (Rosbaud/Feb. 29 [sic], 1961)
BERG: Three Orchestral Pieces (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
KETTING: Symphony No. 1 (Rosbaud/Feb. 1, 1961)
DALLAPICCOLA: Variations for Orchestra (Rosbaud/Feb. 29, 1961)
-dg
How are they? And is the Ketting symphony the one for four saxophones and
orchestra, or have I gotten it confused with another one?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Tassilo
2012-03-23 04:56:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Embedded in an old Charles Rosen article from The New York Review
(“One Easy Piece,” February 22, 1973) is a moving portrait of Rosbaud
near the end. The article is about the difficulties entailed by the
performance of Elliott Carter’s Double Concerto. (Rosen was the
pianist for all the early performances.) In the article Rosen refers
to Rosbaud both as “the greatest conductor to have done [Carter’s
Double Concerto] to this day [1973]” and as “the greatest contemporary
interpreter of the modernist orchestral repertory.” He describes the
man as follows: “Rosbaud, a courteous gentle man, beloved by
orchestral musicians, had devoted a great part of his life to
contemporary music. When he directed the Double Concerto at a festival
of the International Society for Contemporary Music in London, he was
a dying man, the cancer that was to kill him six months later already
far advanced.”

There was inadequate rehearsal time for the performance of the Double
Concerto, and various exacerbating problems in addition to Rosbaud’s
failing health. Rosen writes of Rosbaud’s role: “Rosbaud was
fascinated with the Double Concerto but had not realized its
difficulties when studying it (if, indeed, he had been able to study
it at all). He confided to me that it was the only work on the program
he liked, along with a beautiful song cycle by Thaddeus [Tadeusz]
Baird. Accordingly, he rehearsed the Double Concerto and little else,
as the Baird songs were much easier [to play]. Rehearsals took place
in an atmosphere heavy with resentment, smoldering with tension, as
other composers and soloists waited around for their scheduled turn,
only to be told that Rosbaud wished to continue rehearsing Carter’s
work.

“It was a measure of the greatness of Rosbaud’s character as well as a
poor omen for the performance that, as we were about to step onto the
stage, he turned to me and said, ‘Tell me, where were those places I
was beating wrong this morning?’”

-dg
td
2012-03-23 09:49:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
 In the article Charles Rosen refers to Rosbaud both as “the greatest
conductor to have done [Carter’s Double Concerto] to this day [1973]” and
as “the greatest contemporary interpreter of the modernist orchestral
repertory.”
As I was saying. The guy sacrificed a major career on the altar of the
avant garde. Don Tait please take note.

TD
Loading...