Discussion:
Favourite Parsifal?
(too old to reply)
Andy Evans
2017-07-30 18:26:02 UTC
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What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.

There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Randy Lane
2017-07-30 19:36:25 UTC
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My faves (aside from Knas) include Goodall (EMI/Warner) and Boulez (DG).
I wish a Klemperer performance had been preserved. The music seems to fit his style like a glove.
Ricardo Jimenez
2017-07-30 20:04:24 UTC
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 11:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
The recent BD/DVDs with great sound suffer (as far as my tastes go)
from regietheater productions. Has anyone seen one that they
especially liked.
Rich Sauer
2017-07-30 23:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Solti/VPO. Kollo is ok- certainly better than Peter Hofmann for Karajan. The rest of Solti's cast is superior, particularly Frick and Kelemen. The latter , Zoltan Kelemen, had a memorable voice-a laser-like bass-baritone with no trace of wobble. Solti's conducting in Act II (Klingsor's Magic Castle and The Flowermaidens) is riveting. Lots of intellectuals have fun with Parsifal.. In 2006 Susan Sontag wrote an experimental text (whatever that is) titled "A Parsifal" She begins with the one line from "Parsifal" that all modernists go ga-ga over- "they say time becomes space" .. Some of you will remember how Boulez pondered this line in his essay on the Master's last work. Finally I heard a talk by Franz Welser-Most, where he said (I'm not kidding) that in the line "Here time becomes space", Wagner anticipated Einstein. The audience began laughing, and Welser-Most was taken aback.
Rich
wkasimer
2017-07-31 00:49:31 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
There are several excellent ones, other than Kna (don't forget about his 1964 performance with Vickers). Barenboim's is strongly cast (other than a weakish Gurnemanz), and in excellent sound. Armin Jordan's cast on Erato is even better (except for a rather ordinary Parsifal from Goldberg), but I find the conducting slack. I do like Karajan's, largely because the beauty of the orchestral playing and Moll's Gurnemanz. Best of all is probably Kubelik's, with James King, Moll, and Minton.
m***@gmail.com
2017-07-31 04:05:01 UTC
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Post by wkasimer
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
There are several excellent ones, other than Kna (don't forget about his 1964 performance with Vickers). Barenboim's is strongly cast (other than a weakish Gurnemanz), and in excellent sound. Armin Jordan's cast on Erato is even better (except for a rather ordinary Parsifal from Goldberg), but I find the conducting slack. I do like Karajan's, largely because the beauty of the orchestral playing and Moll's Gurnemanz. Best of all is probably Kubelik's, with James King, Moll, and Minton.
Yes the Kubelik is extremely strong with a much more than usually plugged in James King who was really on for those sessions
Andy Evans
2017-07-31 07:58:57 UTC
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I've been listening to a few of the Knas on YT to start my search, and one thing I've discovered is that Act 1 is a perfect cure for insomnia. I'm always looking for music to fall asleep by and this is it, especially with Kna conducting. Of course, this is a very pleasant way to fall asleep, so no problems there. The only potential problem is coming up against singers that don't satisfy you or irritate you, since you're quite sensitive in the early hours.

My list of "yes but..." singers unfortunately starts with Martha Modl and since she's on most of the Knas that's serious. I totally love Regine Crespin - my favourite Kundry - and there are two of the Knas with her in the role, 1958 and 1960. Unfortunately the performances don't have quite the electricity of Kna's best years and some of the other singers aren't at their absolute best. Ah well....

I need to hear the Karajan in full - not on YT, and neither is the 1964 Vickers. I don't know about Solti - I like his Meistersinger and Gotterdammerung but ideally I'm after something more spiritual. I'm also less of a fan of Kubelik than many others - I never warmed to his Meistersinger for instance and his conducting stays largely earthbound for me.

For now I'm trying to sort out the many Knas. The 1951 and 1962 are pretty much as good as they are always made out to be, and the good stereo sound in 1962 is a big bonus.

Talking about people who have written about Parsifal, have you read Mark Twain?

"The first act of the three occupied two hours, and I enjoyed that in spite of the singing. [...] it seems to me that the chief virtue in song is melody, air, tune, rhythm, or what you please to call it, and that when this feature is absent what remains is a picture with the color left out. I was not able to detect in the vocal parts of "Parsifal" anything that might with confidence be called rhythm or tune or melody; one person performed at a time--and a long time, too--often in a noble, and always in a high-toned, voice; but he only pulled out long notes, then some short ones, then another long one, then a sharp, quick, peremptory bark or two--and so on and so on; and when he was done you saw that the information which he had conveyed had not compensated for the disturbance. [...] An ignorant person gets tired of listening to gymnastic intervals in the long run, no matter how pleasant they may be. In "Parsifal" there is a hermit named Gurnemanz who stands on the stage in one spot and practices by the hour, while first one and then another character of the cast endures what he can of it and then retires to die".
dk
2017-07-31 09:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing
through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be
pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Karajan 1980 is the ultimate Parsifal to my ears:
https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Parsifal-Richard/dp/B000001G53
One of the very few works that actually resonate with him.

However, I must confess that I really don't like
the music, and the plot is so stupid it embarrass
even Whoopi Goldberg. If I had 4 spare hours to
listen to music I would rather hear Tom Lehrer
than Parsifal! ;-)

dk

dk
Andy Evans
2017-07-31 11:24:08 UTC
Permalink
I must confess that I really don't like the music, and the plot is so stupid it embarrass even Whoopi Goldberg. If I had 4 spare hours to listen to music I would rather hear Tom Lehrer than Parsifal! ;-)
dk
Simon Roberts' friend David put it "downstream of Hello Dolly"....

Contrary to what I expected I'm enjoying Solti - totally love Christa Ludwig. Makes up for missing Regine Crespin in the generally less good Knas. And the VPO and Decca recording are big draws.
dk
2017-08-02 06:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I must confess that I really don't like the music, and the plot is so stupid it embarrass even Whoopi Goldberg. If I had 4 spare hours to listen to music I would rather hear Tom Lehrer than Parsifal! ;-)
dk
Simon Roberts' friend David put it "downstream of Hello Dolly"....
Contrary to what I expected I'm enjoying Solti - totally love Christa Ludwig. Makes up for missing Regine Crespin in the generally less good Knas. And the VPO and Decca recording are big draws.
Still the plot is insufferable.

dk
Terry
2017-08-02 11:49:41 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Andy Evans
I must confess that I really don't like the music, and the plot is so stupid it embarrass even Whoopi Goldberg. If I had 4 spare hours to listen to music I would rather hear Tom Lehrer than Parsifal! ;-)
dk
Simon Roberts' friend David put it "downstream of Hello Dolly"....
Contrary to what I expected I'm enjoying Solti - totally love Christa Ludwig. Makes up for missing Regine Crespin in the generally less good Knas. And the VPO and Decca recording are big draws.
Still the plot is insufferable.
dk
I've heard worse.
Andy Evans
2017-08-02 17:00:11 UTC
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Post by dk
Still the plot is insufferable.
dk
What Wagner opera doesn't have a ridiculous plot?
O
2017-08-02 17:04:59 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by dk
Still the plot is insufferable.
dk
What Wagner opera doesn't have a ridiculous plot?
Personally, I'm fond of pre-opera plots that involve gypsies and babies
thrown into fires.

-Owen
Andy Evans
2017-08-02 21:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by O
Personally, I'm fond of pre-opera plots that involve gypsies and babies
thrown into fires.
-Owen
Or dwarf throwing maybe.....

But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
Andy Evans
2018-01-24 22:10:24 UTC
Permalink
I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I responded to Karajan.

Anybody else feel this way?
dk
2018-01-25 00:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against
general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation
melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording
is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is
much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals
more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that
Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I
responded to Karajan.
Anybody else feel this way?
Absolutely agree! ;-)

The most exciting konduktor for Farsipal is
a score-to-MIDI-to-synthesizer translator!
Karajan is mechanical and predictable, but
not mechanical enough! ;-)

dk
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-25 02:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I responded to Karajan.
Anybody else feel this way?
For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just owned this score lock stock and barrel.
Oscar
2018-01-25 02:12:48 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Anybody else feel this way?
For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the
way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are
both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official
release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just
owned this score lock stock and barrel.
Without even a smidgen of doubt, I concur. This work belongs to Kna and anyone who says otherwise has no soul.
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-25 03:03:30 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Anybody else feel this way?
For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the
way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are
both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official
release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just
owned this score lock stock and barrel.
Without even a smidgen of doubt, I concur. This work belongs to Kna and anyone who says otherwise has no soul.
While it is certainly possible to imagine a very different and equally valid approach to the work, it is not possible to imagine a more beautiful statement of the score. What one comes away with is the luminosity of the texture - the work shines from beginning to end and Kna's apparent total sense of peace with the score. Instead of fighting its slowness and inwardness he realizes that is the point of the music and settles down to render it. On the one hand one can stop and admire the care and beauty of balance and detail in almost any bar; and on the other one could mark down and follow one continuous phrase marking from the beginning of the prelude to the end of the postlude. Bar for bar Parsifal is the most singing beautiful score Wagner wrote and Kna brings that home to us.
dk
2018-01-25 03:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Bar for bar Parsifal is the most singing beautiful
score Wagner wrote and Kna brings that home to us.
Too bad it lasts four and a half hours! It must
have been composed for a bladder-less audience!

dk
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-25 03:09:50 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by m***@gmail.com
Bar for bar Parsifal is the most singing beautiful
score Wagner wrote and Kna brings that home to us.
Too bad it lasts four and a half hours! It must
have been composed for a bladder-less audience!
dk
Buy some Depends
Juan I. Cahis
2018-01-25 12:58:45 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Anybody else feel this way?
For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording
that actually sounds the
way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The
orchestra and chorus are
both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the
1964 Bayreuth in its official
release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his
last Parsifal at Bayreuth just
owned this score lock stock and barrel.
Without even a smidgen of doubt, I concur. This work belongs to Kna and
anyone who says otherwise has no soul.
I like very much Boulez’ Parsifal from Bayreuth
--
Enviado desde mi iPad usando NewsTap, Juan I. Cahis, Santiago de Chile.
dk
2018-01-25 00:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by O
Personally, I'm fond of pre-opera plots that involve gypsies and babies
thrown into fires.
-Owen
Or dwarf throwing maybe.....
But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you imagine a
wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged marriage with a singer-
songwriter when there are perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
In the 15th century ?!?

dk
dk
2018-01-25 01:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you
imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged
marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are
perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
If you think the Meistersinger plot is ridiculous,
what can one say about Parsifal? Total brain damage?

dk
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-25 03:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Andy Evans
But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you
imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged
marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are
perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
If you think the Meistersinger plot is ridiculous,
what can one say about Parsifal? Total brain damage?
dk
From time to time I watch a Parsifal DVD or Bluray and I find it hard
to keep awake the whole time. I recall what Rossini said, "Monsieur
Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart d'heures". Except
for Puccini and the other verismo composers, most opera plots are
silly so Parsifal's doesn't bother me. The lack of conciseness does.
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-25 03:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
Post by Andy Evans
But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you
imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged
marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are
perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
If you think the Meistersinger plot is ridiculous,
what can one say about Parsifal? Total brain damage?
dk
From time to time I watch a Parsifal DVD or Bluray and I find it hard
to keep awake the whole time. I recall what Rossini said, "Monsieur
Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart d'heures". Except
for Puccini and the other verismo composers, most opera plots are
silly so Parsifal's doesn't bother me. The lack of conciseness does.
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
Andy Evans
2018-01-25 09:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-25 13:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-26 21:02:05 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
According to the following recent article:

- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.

http://www.dw.com/en/why-parsifal-a-wagner-opera-on-the-power-of-religion-is-so-relevant-today/a-19424592
dk
2018-01-26 21:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
peaceful utopia.
After four and a half hours of purgatory
that is indeed very little consolation.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-26 21:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
peaceful utopia.
After four and a half hours of purgatory
that is indeed very little consolation.
dk
- To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

Friedrich Nietzsche
dk
2018-01-26 21:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
peaceful utopia.
After four and a half hours of purgatory
that is indeed very little consolation.
- To live is to suffer, to survive is
to find some meaning in the suffering.
To live is to drink coffee and eat sushi.
To survive is to find better coffee and
better sushi.

dk
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-26 22:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
peaceful utopia.
After four and a half hours of purgatory
that is indeed very little consolation.
dk
I think we get it - you don't like it
dk
2018-01-26 23:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
I think we get it - you don't like it
Not exactly. I like it in small portions.
Say, 15-20 minutes at a time. I can do
without the plot and the singers. The
major problem is that the music only
holds together with the plot, and
the plot only holds together with
the music. In other words, the
worst kind of codependency.

dk
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-27 05:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by m***@gmail.com
I think we get it - you don't like it
Not exactly. I like it in small portions.
Say, 15-20 minutes at a time. I can do
without the plot and the singers. The
major problem is that the music only
holds together with the plot, and
the plot only holds together with
the music. In other words, the
worst kind of codependency.
dk
That's what opera should be nicht wahr???? a fusion of text, music and all the rest. However if you like there are orchestral syntheses of Parsifal available
dk
2018-01-27 06:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by m***@gmail.com
I think we get it - you don't like it
Not exactly. I like it in small portions.
Say, 15-20 minutes at a time. I can do
without the plot and the singers. The
major problem is that the music only
holds together with the plot, and
the plot only holds together with
the music. In other words, the
worst kind of codependency.
That's what opera should be nicht wahr????
Debatable like anything else! ;-)
Post by m***@gmail.com
a fusion of text, music and all the rest.
Preferably more music and less text! ;-)
Post by m***@gmail.com
However if you like there are orchestral
syntheses of Parsifal available
I would really like to hear a piano version.

dk
jeffc
2018-01-27 13:27:25 UTC
Permalink


"Parsifal is a 1982 West German-French opera film directed by Hans-Jürgen Syberberg, based on the opera of the same name by Richard Wagner. It was shown out of competition at the 1982 Cannes Film Festival.[2]

The soundtrack is a complete performance of the opera; however the imagery used is a melange including medieval costume, puppetry, Nazi relics and a giant death mask of Richard Wagner. The Grail itself is represented by Wagner's Bayreuth Theatre and Parsifal's key transformation is portrayed with a change of actor to an androgynous but deliberately female suggesting form in order to achieve a union of male and female at the conclusion of Act II."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal_(1982_film)
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-27 15:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffc
http://youtu.be/_d7BIYbLZSc
"Parsifal is a 1982 West German-French opera film directed by Hans-Jürgen Syberberg, based on the opera of the same name by Richard Wagner. It was shown out of competition at the 1982 Cannes Film Festival.[2]
The soundtrack is a complete performance of the opera; however the imagery used is a melange including medieval costume, puppetry, Nazi relics and a giant death mask of Richard Wagner. The Grail itself is represented by Wagner's Bayreuth Theatre and Parsifal's key transformation is portrayed with a change of actor to an androgynous but deliberately female suggesting form in order to achieve a union of male and female at the conclusion of Act II."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal_(1982_film)
Actually the flim, which I rented from Netflix, is not a bad
introduction to the opera. There are enough kookie visual shocks to
keep one awake through most of it. Despite those, at the core it is a
traditional performance taking place in a natural setting. I really
couldn't stand the Met production on a bare stage, except for a river
of blood, despite great singing from Kaufmann and Pape. Does anybody
know a performance on "period instruments" lead by Thomas Hengelbrock?
Some of the Amazon reviewers of the Met production praised
Hengelbrock's to the sky. But its reception on Youtube was not as
enthusiastic. But it clocks in 3 hours and 36 minutes with apparently
no cuts! I think a commercial release would be needed to really judge
because, well, Youtube sound.




Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-27 16:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
dk
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas on Amazon performed by
Alexander Jacob. The Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Randy Lane
2018-01-27 16:50:34 UTC
Permalink
I've been wishing for years someone would reissue this recording from Bayreuth in 1971 under Jochum. Used copies are too expensive! Like one Amazon reviewer I am curious how the great spiritually sensitive interpreter of Bruckner handles Parsifal. Maybe Orefeo could get access to better tapes and give us a release worth buying.

https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Bayreuth-1971-Wagner/dp/B000068ZXP/
Randy Lane
2018-01-27 16:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Those who have said they really like the Solti might be happier campers in a few months when UMG releases it in remastered form with a BluRay version included.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078FHJJXP/

The Solti Tristan in that format arrives here in just a few weeks.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0788XRYJV/
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-27 21:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Those who have said they really like the Solti might be happier campers in a few months when UMG releases it in remastered form with a BluRay version included.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078FHJJXP/
The Solti Tristan in that format arrives here in just a few weeks.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0788XRYJV/
I am eagerly awaiting the Parsifal - the Tristan not so much
dk
2018-01-27 19:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Thanks for the pointer.
Whose transcriptions?

dk
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-27 19:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Thanks for the pointer.
Whose transcriptions?
dk
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)

That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
dk
2018-01-27 20:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Thanks for the pointer.
Whose transcriptions?
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)
That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
Thanks! This is great info!
Heading now to the Stanford Music Library.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-27 22:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Thanks for the pointer.
Whose transcriptions?
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)
That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
Thanks! This is great info!
Heading now to the Stanford Music Library.
dk
According to the liner notes of the following lp:

- Liszt's Wagner transcriptions amount to 12...the last, from 1882 an excerpt from Parsifal.

Loading Image...
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-28 07:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by dk
I would really like to hear a piano version.
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Thanks for the pointer.
Whose transcriptions?
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)
That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
Thanks! This is great info!
Heading now to the Stanford Music Library.
dk
- Liszt's Wagner transcriptions amount to 12...the last, from 1882 an excerpt from Parsifal.
https://img.discogs.com/vHGRZtV1JmtTiqWX0Er4oKytrB0=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-3811623-1410172664-1479.jpeg.jpg
The following has gotten rave reviews by Youtube posters:

WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
dk
2018-01-28 07:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
Probably because it is just the Prologue and the Finale! ;-)

dk
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-28 12:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
Probably because it is just the Prologue and the Finale! ;-)
dk
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Andy Evans
2018-01-28 14:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-28 14:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Yes but seeing the same one ad infinitum just gets, pardon me, boring
Bob Harper
2018-01-29 01:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.

Bob Harper
dk
2018-01-31 17:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andy Evans
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
hours.

dk
Dvorak
2018-02-01 23:21:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andy Evans
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
hours.
dk
Knappertsbusch's 1951 Decca Parsifal recording was my unforgettable introduction.I have heard and purchased almost all recordings of this towering masterpiece, but first loves always make a difference. Love at first listen and it is still available. Check below for details.

https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000SH0
m***@gmail.com
2018-02-02 00:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dvorak
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andy Evans
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
hours.
dk
Knappertsbusch's 1951 Decca Parsifal recording was my unforgettable introduction.I have heard and purchased almost all recordings of this towering masterpiece, but first loves always make a difference. Love at first listen and it is still available. Check below for details.
https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000SH0
and so much better sound than the EMI Meistersinger recorded at the same Festival, the reason being Culshaw and friends snuck into the Festspielhuas late at night and hung up extra microphones for the Decca Parsifal
Bob Harper
2018-02-02 02:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andy Evans
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
hours.
dk
A bit more rational, I suppose. Especially the sushi and Scotch (what
kind, pray tell)--which I assume complement one another.

Bob Harper
dk
2018-02-02 17:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
hours.
A bit more rational, I suppose. Especially
the sushi and Scotch (what kind, pray tell)
--which I assume complement one another.
Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.

dk
Andy Evans
2018-02-02 18:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
dk
Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
dk
2018-02-03 04:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by dk
Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
You drink the Bartok and I drink
the Chopin and the Tchaikovsky.

FWIW I also usually have Bowmore,
Lagavulin, Talisker and Highland
Park in my library. The patented
environment friendly jazzoline I
feed my Audis is made from one
part Brubeck, one part Evans,
one part Tatum, and two parts
Talisker. And it is renewable!

dk
MickeyBoy
2018-02-04 01:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Andy Evans
Post by dk
Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
You drink the Bartok and I drink
the Chopin and the Tchaikovsky.
FWIW I also usually have Bowmore,
Lagavulin, Talisker and Highland
Park in my library. The patented
environment friendly jazzoline I
feed my Audis is made from one
part Brubeck, one part Evans,
one part Tatum, and two parts
Talisker. And it is renewable!
dk
I'll second all these choices, preferring Talisker to Richard Goode. :-) I have had a few bottles of Talisker 12 and 18 in my time, but recently saw bottles of Talisker 24 for USD 2,200. !@#$%^&*()
Bob Harper
2018-01-27 21:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
peaceful utopia.
After four and a half hours of purgatory
that is indeed very little consolation.
dk
I don't know. Purgatory ends; Heaven is eternal.

Bob Harper
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-31 09:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.
http://www.dw.com/en/why-parsifal-a-wagner-opera-on-the-power-of-religion-is-so-relevant-today/a-19424592
The following recent book has a chapter on Parsifal:

- The Holy Grail on Film...

https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/the-holy-grail-on-film/
g***@gmail.com
2018-01-31 09:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.
http://www.dw.com/en/why-parsifal-a-wagner-opera-on-the-power-of-religion-is-so-relevant-today/a-19424592
The recent book THE HOLY GRAIL ON FILM...has a chapter on Parsifal:

https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/the-holy-grail-on-film/
markhax
2018-01-26 00:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
Zum Raum wird hier die Zeit!
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-26 01:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by markhax
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
Zum Raum wird hier die Zeit!
GREAT line!!!!
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-26 00:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-26 01:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
There is a cut recording of Parsifal (the Callas) but rightly it is never cut. As for the others I don't think I have ever heard cut versions of any of those operas.
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-01-26 15:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by m***@gmail.com
To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
There is a cut recording of Parsifal (the Callas) but rightly it is never cut. As for the others I don't think I have ever heard cut versions of any of those operas.
The San Francisco opera recently did a cut version of Carmen that cut
out half an hour.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/arts/music/could-you-shorten-that-aria-opera-weighs-cuts-in-the-classics.html

The Met did a TV broadcast of a cut version of the Magic Flute a few
years ago.
Tassilo
2018-10-10 04:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
What Wagner opera doesn't have a ridiculous plot?
TRISTAN
j***@gmail.com
2018-10-10 07:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Boulez is my favourite.

He knocks 20 mins or so off it.

Jonathan Dunsby
O
2018-10-11 18:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Boulez is my favourite.
He knocks 20 mins or so off it.
Jonathan Dunsby
How can you tell?

-Owen

Tassilo
2018-01-28 19:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
I only know the ACT II from this performance, but check out Callas/Gui/La Scala/live early 50's for the most stunning possible conducting and Callas a sensational Kundry. In Italian, of course. Available in quite good sound as part of a Callas compilation on Gala.

-dg
m***@gmail.com
2018-01-28 20:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tassilo
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
I only know the ACT II from this performance, but check out Callas/Gui/La Scala/live early 50's for the most stunning possible conducting and Callas a sensational Kundry. In Italian, of course. Available in quite good sound as part of a Callas compilation on Gala.
-dg
The Solti has magnificent sound (which should sound even better on the upcoming bluray) strong non-interventionist conducting and a great cast. The Karajan cast is not as good and his conducting is like examining a beautiful object held at arms distance. More recent ones I have heard but none really made an impression on me that makes me want to hear them again
Andy Evans
2018-01-28 23:07:14 UTC
Permalink
The Solti has magnificent sound (which should sound even better on the upcoming bluray) strong non-interventionist conducting and a great cast. The Karajan cast is not as good and his conducting is like examining a beautiful object held at arms distance. More recent ones I have heard but none really made an impression on me that makes me want to hear them again>
That's a very good description. I agree entirely.
g***@gmail.com
2018-02-06 20:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Concerning Kubelik's 1980 recording:

- It is one of the best recordings of Parsifal issued to date.

http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
dk
2018-02-08 07:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
- It is one of the best recordings of Parsifal issued to date.
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
What else is new?
Andy Evans
2018-03-29 09:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
m***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 13:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
Why should anyone one disagree - surely a personal preference and if the faster renditions make sense to you that's what counts
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 16:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
Concerning Boulez' 1970 Parsifal performance at Bayreuth:

- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...

http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 17:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
According to the following:

- ...We must accept that the difference between Wagner’s ideas on tempi and the slower performances that are customary today is even greater.

http://www.haenchen.net/veroeffentlichungen/texte/?user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Btype%5D=1&user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Buid%5D=115&cHash=35963094a35411a5a6f1782df709b875
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 17:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
- ...We must accept that the difference between Wagner’s ideas on tempi and the slower performances that are customary today is even greater.
http://www.haenchen.net/veroeffentlichungen/texte/?user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Btype%5D=1&user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Buid%5D=115&cHash=35963094a35411a5a6f1782df709b875
Could this explain tempi slowing down over time?:

- Every tradition grows ever more venerable the more remote its origin, the more confused that origin is. The reverence due to it increases from generation to generation. The tradition finally becomes holy and inspires awe.

Nietzsche
wkasimer
2018-03-29 18:05:59 UTC
Permalink
There's only one problem with this hypothesis - there's absolutely no evidence that performances of Parsifal are slowing down.

www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm

If you look at the 10 slowest performances eight of them date from before 1960.
Herman
2018-03-29 18:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
There's only one problem with this hypothesis - there's absolutely no evidence that performances of Parsifal are slowing down.
www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm
If you look at the 10 slowest performances eight of them date from before 1960.
No facts, please.
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 19:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
There's only one problem with this hypothesis - there's absolutely no evidence that performances of Parsifal are slowing down.
www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm
If you look at the 10 slowest performances eight of them date from before 1960.
According to the following:

- In a program essay, he made a persuasive case that tempos in “Parsifal” had generally become slower since its premiere in 1882, citing such diverse factors as failure to heed evidence from Wagner’s day and a tendency during the Nazi era to overly sentimentalize the work....Toscanini’s was the slowest, at 4 hours and 42 minutes, with James Levine close behind.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/09/arts/09iht-LOOMIS09.html
m***@gmail.com
2018-03-30 03:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by wkasimer
There's only one problem with this hypothesis - there's absolutely no evidence that performances of Parsifal are slowing down.
www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm
If you look at the 10 slowest performances eight of them date from before 1960.
- In a program essay, he made a persuasive case that tempos in “Parsifal” had generally become slower since its premiere in 1882, citing such diverse factors as failure to heed evidence from Wagner’s day and a tendency during the Nazi era to overly sentimentalize the work....Toscanini’s was the slowest, at 4 hours and 42 minutes, with James Levine close behind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/09/arts/09iht-LOOMIS09.html
Like all generalizations its not worth very much
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-29 17:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
According to the following:

- ...We must accept that the difference between Wagner’s ideas on tempi and the slower performances that are customary today is even greater.

http://www.haenchen.net/veroeffentlichungen/texte/?user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Btype%5D=1&user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Buid%5D=115&cHash=35963094a35411a5a6f1782df709b875
c***@williams.edu
2018-03-29 18:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
Have you tried Karl Muck?
g***@gmail.com
2018-10-09 17:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
(Recent Youtube upload):

Parsifal- Munich Nationaltheater. 5-VII-2018 HD
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