Discussion:
Brahms 4 preferences
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Bob Harper
2018-07-25 18:37:33 UTC
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I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.

TIA.

Bob Harper
dk
2018-07-25 18:58:09 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not
too long ago, but I'm unable to find it.
Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
Celibidache. Possibly Bernstein/VPO as a
distant next best. Possibly Klemperer as
a distant 3rd best. Forget about everyone
else. Especially Charles "dry as dust"
Kleiber! ;-)

dk
g***@gmail.com
2018-07-25 19:09:02 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
This 2007 review article may be of interest:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics2/brahmsfourth.html
s***@gmail.com
2018-07-25 19:58:16 UTC
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Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO

There are three. DFD/Czech Philharmonic is an interesting alternative or if going historical Furtwangler or Toscanini/Philharmonia.

Stan Punzel
dk
2018-07-25 23:05:20 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!

Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.

All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)

dk
MIFrost
2018-07-25 23:10:26 UTC
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Post by dk
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Really? You like his VPO cycle? I find it horribly slow and almost painful to listen to. Just my two cents.

MIFrost
Bob Harper
2018-07-26 01:00:11 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by dk
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Really? You like his VPO cycle? I find it horribly slow and almost painful to listen to. Just my two cents.
MIFrost
Look at Dan's first preference and the reasons behind his opinion are clear.

Bob Harper
Oscar
2018-07-26 01:06:16 UTC
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Frank, I tore off all the spines of the tray cards of my L_v_n_ CDs so I don’t have to look at his name. I know where to find the music should I need to listen to it. For reference, of course, not for pleasure.
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 01:40:22 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Frank, I tore off all the spines of the tray cards of my L_v_n_ CDs so I don’t have to look at his name. I know where to find the music should I need to listen to it. For reference, of course, not for pleasure.
I've filed mine with my "Hatto" CDs which I still have even though I got
a full refund from B-C and was supposed to return them. He didn't offer
to pay for shipping so I kept them.
Bozo
2018-07-26 00:10:19 UTC
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Post by dk
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
Bruno Walter , Columbia Symphony.
MIFrost
2018-07-26 00:15:08 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by dk
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
Bruno Walter , Columbia Symphony.
Agree. Excellent. The whole cycle. Anyone but me care for Chailly's cycle?

MIFrost
HT
2018-07-26 05:48:58 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Anyone but me care for Chailly's cycle?
I love the Chailly Brahms 4 but can only compare it with Van Beinum/KCO and Jochum/Berliner.

Henk
Gerard
2018-07-26 12:08:23 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by MIFrost
Anyone but me care for Chailly's cycle?
I love the Chailly Brahms 4 but can only compare it with Van Beinum/KCO and Jochum/Berliner.
Henk
There are 2 Chailly cycles.
Which one do you love?
MIFrost
2018-07-26 12:34:11 UTC
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Post by Gerard
There are 2 Chailly cycles.
Which one do you love?
This one, for me ...
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Symphonies-CD-Riccardo-Chailly/dp/B00E6G23TA

MIFrost
HT
2018-07-26 14:18:17 UTC
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Post by Gerard
There are 2 Chailly cycles.
I only know the Decca Gewandhaus version, the one available at MDT.

Henk
Gerard
2018-07-26 21:36:24 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Gerard
There are 2 Chailly cycles.
I only know the Decca Gewandhaus version, the one available at MDT.
Henk
There's also his older Concertgebouw Orchestra cycle, on Decca too:
https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-CD-Box-Set/dp/B000I8OFI2/
Oscar
2018-07-26 21:39:29 UTC
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I bet it sounds even better on yr loudspeakers, Gerard.
Gerard
2018-07-26 21:44:45 UTC
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Post by Oscar
I bet it sounds even better on yr loudspeakers, Gerard.
That's quite possible (specially since I have connected them to a wonderful amplifier) ;-)
But I should have another listening, and comparing both cycles by Chailly a little. Although it is rather time consuming.

BYW did someone mention Giulini already? His EMI Chicago recording?
dk
2018-07-26 00:27:09 UTC
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Post by dk
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony.
ROTFL! This is the orchestral
equivalent of piano rolls! ;-)

dk
Bozo
2018-07-26 13:30:16 UTC
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Post by dk
ROTFL! This is the orchestral
equivalent of piano rolls! ;-)
Walter's " low-cal " approach here works for me :



From the YT poster :

" Despite criticisms of the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, an ensemble of 60 some musicians, for its overall proficiency and ensemble sound, Walter himself considered this his orchestra, the members of which he auditioned personally, to be as fine as any in his long career."

Also : http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Columbia-Symphony-Orchestra.htm :

" In 1957, while living in California, he was approached by Columbia's executives with a new proposal. Told of the advent of stereo recording and the threat that it constituted to the future sales of monaural records, Bruno Walter was asked to undertake a new series of recordings in stereo to preserve his interpretations in the most modern sound possible, and to allow them to reach new generations of listeners.

The result was a new Columbia Symphony Orchestra, chosen specifically by and for Bruno Walter. This group was an ensemble of 50 to 70 members, assembled from the best freelance musicians on the West Coast, many of whom typically never took on orchestral work, but made the exception to work with Bruno Walter. It was one of the best recording orchestras ever assembled in the USA, incorporating many of the best characteristics of the Wiener Philharmoniker and the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig - which Bruno Walter had conducted in Austria and Germany during the 1920's and 1930's - as well as the New York Philharmonic Orchestra. This orchestra recorded much of the core Classical and Romantic repertoire under Bruno Walter's baton, including the late W.A. Mozart symphonies, Gustav Mahler's symphonies Nos. 1 and 9, the four Johannes Brahms symphonies, Dvorak's Symphonies Nos. 8 and 9, Schubert's Ninth, the Wagner orchestral music, and the complete Beethoven symphonies."
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-07-26 14:27:26 UTC
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Strange that nobody has put in a vote for Toscanini. Here is one.
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-26 14:47:00 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Strange that nobody has put in a vote for Toscanini. Here is one.
I could say the exact same about Furtwangler. Nobody turns up the heat in the fourth movement as much. Maybe Jochum in his own BPO cycle.

For myself, I think there are plenty of fine 4s and no reason to be picky. Was just listening to a Blomstedt LGO live recording on Decca the other day and enjoying it.
drh8h
2018-07-26 18:44:37 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Strange that nobody has put in a vote for Toscanini. Here is one.
It was the high point of his recorded cycle. Only the heavy-handed third movement detracts a little. The BBC and NYP performances and some of the NBC (particularly 1948) were superior in some respects. I have never heard of any issue of the 1939 broadcast, which is reported to have the fastest first movement of them all.
Oscar
2018-07-26 19:14:59 UTC
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I second hernan’s recommendation of Haitink’s mid-to-late ‘90s recording of Brahms 4 w/ Boston SO on Philips. The whole cycle is remarkable and beautifully played, but the Fourth is simply outstanding.
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 19:20:57 UTC
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Post by Oscar
I second hernan’s recommendation of Haitink’s mid-to-late ‘90s
1992 to be precise

recording of Brahms 4 w/ Boston SO on Philips. The whole cycle is
remarkable and beautifully played, but the Fourth is simply outstanding.
MIFrost
2018-07-27 01:50:16 UTC
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Post by Oscar
I second hernan’s recommendation of Haitink’s mid-to-late ‘90s recording of Brahms 4 w/ Boston SO on Philips. The whole cycle is remarkable and beautifully played, but the Fourth is simply outstanding.
I have nothing but praise for Haitink's set with the Concertgebouw.

MIFrost
Bob Harper
2018-07-27 05:51:43 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by Oscar
I second hernan’s recommendation of Haitink’s mid-to-late ‘90s recording of Brahms 4 w/ Boston SO on Philips. The whole cycle is remarkable and beautifully played, but the Fourth is simply outstanding.
I have nothing but praise for Haitink's set with the Concertgebouw.
MIFrost
Seconded. seriously underrated.

Bob Harper
dk
2018-07-27 01:04:59 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Strange that nobody has put in a vote
for Toscanini. Here is one.
Can we see your voter registration card? ;-)

dk
Sol L. Siegel
2018-07-28 07:40:21 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Strange that nobody has put in a vote for Toscanini. Here is one.
Actually, someone put in a vote for Toscanini/Philharmonia. My
favorite Toscanini is the one with BBCSO from 1935.

The versions I listen to the most all seem to date from about
the same period in the '70's: Giulini/Chicago, Kertesz and
DFD/Czech PO. The great trick in the symphony is to impose
discipline without putting it in a straitjacket, and these
three, in different ways, manage the feat without making the
effort audible. By now I should no longer be surprised how
well Kertesz and DFD have stood up to repeat listening.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
drh8h
2018-08-02 00:34:14 UTC
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Post by Sol L. Siegel
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Strange that nobody has put in a vote for Toscanini. Here is one.
Actually, someone put in a vote for Toscanini/Philharmonia. My
favorite Toscanini is the one with BBCSO from 1935.
The versions I listen to the most all seem to date from about
the same period in the '70's: Giulini/Chicago, Kertesz and
DFD/Czech PO. The great trick in the symphony is to impose
discipline without putting it in a straitjacket, and these
three, in different ways, manage the feat without making the
effort audible. By now I should no longer be surprised how
well Kertesz and DFD have stood up to repeat listening.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Thanks to someone's good graces, I have been able to hear Toscanini's 1939 NBC account. Sound garbled in parts of the first two movements but it does not matter. Control, tension and flexibility all in one. None of the later performances I have heard have it to the same degree.

DH
jrsnfld
2018-08-01 09:07:30 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by dk
ROTFL! This is the orchestral
equivalent of piano rolls! ;-)
http://youtu.be/N_8KiPA7C38
Try also Walter with the BBC SO, from the '30s. I wouldn't call the approach low-cal--some interesting rubato, but not too heavy handed. Even the early, "exciting" Walter is insistently genial, even when he's exciting. The BBC SO plays fantastically at some points, driven by quick temp, but always Walter seems to smile with the music, and the symphony sings for him.

--Jeff
AB
2018-07-26 19:48:59 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by dk
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony.
ROTFL! This is the orchestral
equivalent of piano rolls! ;-)
dk
you are right, but i am not laughing!

AB
AB
2018-07-26 00:17:38 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
dk
I am 'shocked' at your comments.

AB
dk
2018-07-26 00:26:03 UTC
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Post by AB
Post by dk
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
I am 'shocked' at your comments.
Then take anti-shock medicine quickly!

dk
AB
2018-07-26 19:47:59 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by AB
Post by dk
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
I am 'shocked' at your comments.
Then take anti-shock medicine quickly!
dk
thanks, the medicine woiked!

AB
MIFrost
2018-07-26 00:26:50 UTC
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Post by dk
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
dk
With which orchestra?

MIFrost
dk
2018-07-26 00:27:54 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by dk
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
With which orchestra?
Stuttgart RSO and Munich PO.

dk
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 01:20:00 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
dk
I personally own 5 different Celi versions: Berlin PO (1945), Milan
Radio SO (1959), Munich PO (1985 on EMI), Munich PO (1986 on Altus), and
Stuttgart Radio SO (1974). IIRC it's the EMI 4th that's so special. I
think these are all live recordings.
O
2018-07-26 16:00:26 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
Reiner sounds too slick and driven.
Bernstein/NYPO is no match for Bernstein/VPO.
Munch is not even in the running!
Celibidache is the only conductor
that makes the music unfold and
develop naturally as it it were
improvised right then and there.
All the others are nothing more
than mere semi-conductors! ;-)
I disagree with your remarks! Does that make me a resistor?

-Ohms, er, -Owen
g***@gmail.com
2018-11-10 04:43:14 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
There are three. DFD/Czech Philharmonic is an interesting alternative or if going historical Furtwangler...
According to this:

- The finale, in particular, is terrifying in its extremes and persistent drive, an experience on record never equaled before or since, and an enduring testament to an utterly unique work of genius by both composer and artist.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics2/brahmsfourth.html
dk
2018-11-11 03:28:00 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
There are three. DFD/Czech Philharmonic is an interesting alternative or if going historical Furtwangler...
- The finale, in particular, is terrifying in its extremes and persistent drive, an experience on record never equaled before or since, and an enduring testament to an utterly unique work of genius by both composer and artist.
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics2/brahmsfourth.html
Which Furty recording?
There are at least 4
different ones!

dk
Bob Harper
2018-11-12 00:27:53 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Reiner/RPO Chesky
Bernstein/NYPO
Munch/BSO
There are three. DFD/Czech Philharmonic is an interesting alternative or if going historical Furtwangler...
- The finale, in particular, is terrifying in its extremes and persistent drive, an experience on record never equaled before or since, and an enduring testament to an utterly unique work of genius by both composer and artist.
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics2/brahmsfourth.html
Which Furty recording?
There are at least 4
different ones!
dk
Speaking of the Brahms 4th, Jun Märkl performed it with the Oregon
symphony about a month ago. A great performance, Furtwänglerian in
intensity. Quite a treat for the audience. It's possible that he's a
candidate to replace Carlos Kalmar, whose tenure is ending at the end of
next season. Based on the Brahms, I'd say bring him on!

Bob Harper
Oscar
2018-11-12 01:35:14 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Speaking of the Brahms 4th, Jun Märkl performed it with the Oregon
symphony about a month ago. A great performance...
I have some Märkl CDs on Naxos in my collection. Will locate these and revisit. Thx.
Frank Berger
2018-11-12 02:56:28 UTC
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Post by Oscar
Post by Bob Harper
Speaking of the Brahms 4th, Jun Märkl performed it with the Oregon
symphony about a month ago. A great performance...
I have some Märkl CDs on Naxos in my collection. Will locate these and revisit. Thx.
He has recorded Brahms 1, 3 and 4 with MDR Leipzig Radio SO. MDR being
Mitteldeutchser Rundfunk. No review that I could find.
Ed Presson
2018-11-12 03:39:11 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Speaking of the Brahms 4th, Jun Märkl performed it with the Oregon
symphony about a month ago. A great performance...
I have some Märkl CDs on Naxos in my collection. Will locate these and revisit. Thx.
So do I. I was only moderately impressed, but it was a small sample.

Ed Presson

Randy Lane
2018-07-25 21:42:18 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
Carlos Kleiber/DG
MIFrost
2018-07-25 22:06:46 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
Levine/Chicago
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Symphonies-Concerto-German-Requiem/dp/B004H6P2LU/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_15_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZFG3NGXX4DZDWQZBFZDR

Outstanding set of the whole Brahms cycle.

MIFrost
Oscar
2018-07-25 22:58:02 UTC
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We don’t promote James L_v_n_ around here anymore. #timesup
Oscar
2018-07-25 23:00:11 UTC
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FWIW, Hurwitz is on the record as preferring L_v_n_’s VPO Brahms cycle from the 1980’s (DG) to the earlier RCA set.
MIFrost
2018-07-25 23:07:39 UTC
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Post by Oscar
FWIW, Hurwitz is on the record as preferring L_v_n_’s VPO Brahms cycle from the 1980’s (DG) to the earlier RCA set.
I wouldn't say that. Here's the pertinent passage:

His RCA complete symphony cycle with the Chicago Symphony is one of the best ones, but is only available at present in Japan. This DG set never was released in its entirety in the USA, making its appearance “on demand” from Arkivmusic.com one of the most important and valuable of all of its major-label licensed productions. The performances are stunning, a bit weightier than the Chicago recordings, but still taut, rhythmically sharp, and exciting.
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 01:46:12 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by Oscar
FWIW, Hurwitz is on the record as preferring L_v_n_’s VPO Brahms cycle from the 1980’s (DG) to the earlier RCA set.
His RCA complete symphony cycle with the Chicago Symphony is one of the best ones, but is only available at present in Japan. This DG set never was released in its entirety in the USA, making its appearance “on demand” from Arkivmusic.com one of the most important and valuable of all of its major-label licensed productions. The performances are stunning, a bit weightier than the Chicago recordings, but still taut, rhythmically sharp, and exciting.
I don't think I've ever seen 2 or 4 except in a complete box that seems
available on CD-R from Arkivmusic. The used copies on Amazon may be the
Arkiv CD-Rs. Often that is not advertised. I have no problem with
CD-Rs (I am certain they will outlive me), but sellers ought to reveal
that fact. I've never seen the "real" box set sold anywhere.
Kerrison
2018-07-26 06:00:42 UTC
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Stokowski at the age of 92 conducted the work for the last time at the Royal Albert Hall with the New Philharmonia and not only received audience 'bravos' at the end of the first movement but also had critics reaching for their superlatives ... "the most exciting, galvanizing and convincing of all Stokowski's efforts" ...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Stokowski_bbcl42052.htm

Thanks to You Tube, the excellent 'BBC Legends' release can be readily sampled by clicking this link ...


Frank Berger
2018-07-26 07:11:03 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
Stokowski at the age of 92 conducted the work for the last time at the Royal Albert Hall with the New Philharmonia and not only received audience 'bravos' at the end of the first movement but also had critics reaching for their superlatives ... "the most exciting, galvanizing and convincing of all Stokowski's efforts" ...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Stokowski_bbcl42052.htm
Thanks to You Tube, the excellent 'BBC Legends' release can be readily sampled by clicking this link ...
http://youtu.be/0l_Go4pYc8A
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
Herman
2018-07-26 07:13:38 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 07:30:46 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
You completely missed my point.
Herman
2018-07-26 07:38:27 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
You completely missed my point.
look at your writing.
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 09:43:24 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
You completely missed my point.
look at your writing.
What, I left out an "a?" That doesn't change my meaning. Can't you
figure out what I meant?
O
2018-07-26 15:47:07 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you
need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
Since I may soon be a tremor-rid semi-corpse, I hope that I can still
make semi-valuable contributions to society at that time.

-Owen
Kerrison
2018-07-27 13:44:53 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
I disagree. I find it a little morbid that some people seem to think that you need a tremor-rid semi-corpse in front of an orchestra. Did this start with Klemps?
I think you should listen forthwith to the very last complete unedited take of the Bizet Symphony in C's finale, conducted by Stokowski at the age of 95. It was the last time he ever conducted anything and if anyone thinks this is the work of a "tremor-rid semi-corpse" then their opinions on anything musical are clearly not worth considering! ...


Andrew Clarke
2018-07-26 10:05:11 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Kerrison
Stokowski at the age of 92 conducted the work for the last time at the Royal Albert Hall with the New Philharmonia and not only received audience 'bravos' at the end of the first movement but also had critics reaching for their superlatives ... "the most exciting, galvanizing and convincing of all Stokowski's efforts" ...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Stokowski_bbcl42052.htm
Thanks to You Tube, the excellent 'BBC Legends' release can be readily sampled by clicking this link ...
http://youtu.be/0l_Go4pYc8A
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
Little Jewish guy walks into a Catholic Church and goes into a confessional. Bless me father, he says, last night I went to a bar, picked up three college girls, took them to a motel and had them screaming for more all night long.
For your penance, says the priest, say five Our Fathers, five Hail Marys ...
Sorry, Father, he says, but I'm not a Catholic -
Then why are you telling me all this?
Listen, buster, I'm 92 years old and I'm telling everybody ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
AB
2018-07-26 20:02:21 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Kerrison
Stokowski at the age of 92 conducted the work for the last time at the Royal Albert Hall with the New Philharmonia and not only received audience 'bravos' at the end of the first movement but also had critics reaching for their superlatives ... "the most exciting, galvanizing and convincing of all Stokowski's efforts" ...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Stokowski_bbcl42052.htm
Thanks to You Tube, the excellent 'BBC Legends' release can be readily sampled by clicking this link ...
http://youtu.be/0l_Go4pYc8A
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
Horozowski (sp?)played piano recitals into his late 90s!

AB
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 20:42:23 UTC
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Post by AB
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Kerrison
Stokowski at the age of 92 conducted the work for the last time at the Royal Albert Hall with the New Philharmonia and not only received audience 'bravos' at the end of the first movement but also had critics reaching for their superlatives ... "the most exciting, galvanizing and convincing of all Stokowski's efforts" ...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Stokowski_bbcl42052.htm
Thanks to You Tube, the excellent 'BBC Legends' release can be readily sampled by clicking this link ...
http://youtu.be/0l_Go4pYc8A
Not to take anything away from the performance, but ANY performance by a
92 year old deserves standing ovation.
Horozowski (sp?)played piano recitals into his late 90s!
AB
I'm getting up. Now I'm applauding.

(Horszowski)
dk
2018-07-27 01:14:05 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
Not to take anything away from the performance,
but ANY performance by a 92 year old deserves
standing ovation.
Horozowski (sp?)played piano recitals into his late 90s!
Then listen to these:






Enjoy!

dk
HT
2018-07-27 07:22:57 UTC
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Post by dk
http://youtu.be/kV-R4FvEEb0
I did enjoy Reizer. Thanks!

Henk
Herman
2018-07-26 07:11:44 UTC
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Courtesy of the author, I quote his remarks below. These refer to Haitink's Boston account of the Brahms 4th on Philips. I've often thought Haitink an ideal Brahms conductot. I have C. Kleiber, Walter stereo, Solti, and Bohm. All are ok but something intangible is missing from this great work. Maybe it was never there in the first place. Anyway, it might be Haitink that suits some ears.
Haitink's Boston Brahms cycle (including a terrific 2nd piano concerto with Emm Ax on Sony) is the Cinderella of Brahms recordings. The orchestra is in great shaoe and Haitink (at this point) brings out the light in this music.

Of course if you like heavy cholesterol Brahms the Boston Haitink sounds unusual, but there is no indication whatsoever that Brahms wanted his music to sound that way in works later than the 1st piano concerto.
Herman
2018-07-31 07:05:24 UTC
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Since these topics tend to enumerate all the usual suspects I cannot help but notice how times have changed in that it took a long time for Kleiber VPO to emerge, and that Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned consistently in the past, and not in 2018.

Other fallen-by-the-wayside: Kubelik / BRSO.
Bob Harper
2018-07-31 17:45:12 UTC
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Post by Herman
Since these topics tend to enumerate all the usual suspects I cannot help but notice how times have changed in that it took a long time for Kleiber VPO to emerge, and that Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned consistently in the past, and not in 2018.
Other fallen-by-the-wayside: Kubelik / BRSO.
I have long wanted to hear the Kubelik/BRSO, which I cannot imagine to
be other than excellent, but to be honest I've been put off by the price.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2018-07-31 18:01:13 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Post by Herman
Since these topics tend to enumerate all the usual suspects I cannot
help but notice how times have changed in that it took a long time for
Kleiber VPO to emerge, and that Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned
consistently in the past, and not in 2018.
Other fallen-by-the-wayside: Kubelik / BRSO.
I have long wanted to hear the Kubelik/BRSO, which I cannot imagine to
be other than excellent, but to be honest I've been put off by the price.
Bob Harper
I was surprised at how expensive the Orfeo set has become (I have it,
but I'm sure I paid nothing like that) and that there is a Kubelik
Brahms set on Eloquence, with the Vienna PO, from the late 50s. The one
reviewer said the performances are similar, with the Orfeo set being
somewhat more hands-on, and the VPO set with less of a Kubelik stamp on
it. And that the Orfeo set has better sound.
Herman
2018-07-31 19:14:18 UTC
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Orfeo doesn't seem to have a very ambitious distribution. Maybe the print runs aren't that big either. So whenever I spotted an Orfeo disc in the remainder bins I'd snap it up. Many wound up being real favorites. Recently I rediscovered the Ancerl disc with Suk playing the Dvorak violin concerto, a magnificent performance and it doesn't matter it's mono. It betas many stereo versions.
Frank Berger
2018-07-31 19:36:29 UTC
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Post by Herman
Orfeo doesn't seem to have a very ambitious distribution. Maybe the print runs aren't that big either. So whenever I spotted an Orfeo disc in the remainder bins I'd snap it up. Many wound up being real favorites. Recently I rediscovered the Ancerl disc with Suk playing the Dvorak violin concerto, a magnificent performance and it doesn't matter it's mono. It betas many stereo versions.
During the more intense period of my collecting I also learned to snap
up from the used bin Orfeo (and others like Ermitage, Arkadia, Artists,
LYS/Dante, Exclusive, Greenhill, Intaglio, Memories, Multisonic,
Originals). Not all gems, of course, but the used market was so active
in those days you could easily re-sell anything you didn't want to keep.
Oscar
2018-08-01 03:54:16 UTC
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...Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned consistently in the past, and not in 2018.
Kempe/RPO on Testament? Ah, no.
jrsnfld
2018-08-01 05:33:37 UTC
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Post by Oscar
...Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned consistently in the past, and not in 2018.
Kempe/RPO on Testament? Ah, no.
Never saw that one before. (Also didn't realize until looking now that there is an RAI Milan Brahms 4 with Kempe.)

But the BP/Kempe cycle on Testament is excellent; also very satisfying is the stereo Munich cycle. However, I don't remember if the 4th in particular stood out in those cycles.

--Jeff
Andrew Clarke
2018-08-01 13:29:42 UTC
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Post by Herman
Since these topics tend to enumerate all the usual suspects I cannot help but notice how times have changed in that it took a long time for Kleiber VPO to emerge, and that Rudolf Kempe used to be mentioned consistently in the past, and not in 2018.
Other fallen-by-the-wayside: Kubelik / BRSO.
In about 60 years time we might have discovered Sir John Eliot Gardner with l'Orchestre Romantique et Revolutionnaire. Big Dave Hurwitz thinks it's terrible, and I can imagine no higher recommendation for a HIP performance.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Gerard
2018-07-26 12:10:33 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by Oscar
FWIW, Hurwitz is on the record as preferring L_v_n_’s VPO Brahms cycle from the 1980’s (DG) to the earlier RCA set.
His RCA complete symphony cycle with the Chicago Symphony is one of the best ones, but is only available at present in Japan. This DG set never was released in its entirety in the USA, making its appearance “on demand” from Arkivmusic.com one of the most important and valuable of all of its major-label licensed productions. The performances are stunning, a bit weightier than the Chicago recordings, but still taut, rhythmically sharp, and exciting.
AFAIK the RCA cycle is availabe everywhere. Like:
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Symphonies-Concerto-German-Requiem/dp/B004H6P2LU/
https://www.dodax.nl/nl-nl/muziek-cds-dvds-vinylplaten/concerten-symfonien-orkestmuziek/johannes-brahms-james-levine-conducts-brahms-dpOOO1EF8PRCI/
Frank Berger
2018-07-26 00:57:09 UTC
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Post by Oscar
We don’t promote James L_v_n_ around here anymore. #timesup
To the trash heap with him; along with Mark Twain.
MiNe109
2018-07-26 18:35:21 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
Levine/Chicago
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Symphonies-Concerto-German-Requiem/dp/B004H6P2LU/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_15_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZFG3NGXX4DZDWQZBFZDR
Outstanding set of the whole Brahms cycle.
There's a Dutton Vocalion reissue of the 4th with Mahler 1 on hybrid
sacd that includes the quadrophonic mix. I haven't heard it.

Stephen
Sol L. Siegel
2018-07-28 08:04:47 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
There's a Dutton Vocalion reissue of the 4th with Mahler 1 on hybrid
sacd that includes the quadrophonic mix. I haven't heard it.
I think you have it mixed up. It's the quad recordings of Mahler
1 & 4, plus a remix of Brahms 1 from the tapes used for the
stereo release.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8389351--levine-
conducts-mahler-symphonies-nos-1-4-brahms-symphony-no-1

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
MiNe109
2018-07-30 18:10:04 UTC
Reply
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Post by Sol L. Siegel
Post by MiNe109
There's a Dutton Vocalion reissue of the 4th with Mahler 1 on hybrid
sacd that includes the quadrophonic mix. I haven't heard it.
I think you have it mixed up. It's the quad recordings of Mahler
1 & 4, plus a remix of Brahms 1 from the tapes used for the
stereo release.
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8389351--levine-
conducts-mahler-symphonies-nos-1-4-brahms-symphony-no-1
My mistake! Is the session in which the Mahler was completed so quickly
recording time was available for an unplanned Brahms?

Stephen
MiNe109
2018-07-30 18:13:10 UTC
Reply
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Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
There's a Dutton Vocalion reissue of the 4th with Mahler 1 on hybrid
sacd that includes the quadrophonic mix. I haven't heard it.
I think you have it mixed up. It's the quad recordings  of Mahler
1 & 4, plus  a remix of Brahms 1 from the tapes used for the
stereo release.
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8389351--levine-
conducts-mahler-symphonies-nos-1-4-brahms-symphony-no-1
My mistake! Is the session in which the Mahler was completed so quickly
recording time was available for an unplanned Brahms?
That's "is this..."
jrsnfld
2018-07-31 00:36:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by Sol L. Siegel
Post by MiNe109
There's a Dutton Vocalion reissue of the 4th with Mahler 1 on hybrid
sacd that includes the quadrophonic mix. I haven't heard it.
I think you have it mixed up. It's the quad recordings of Mahler
1 & 4, plus a remix of Brahms 1 from the tapes used for the
stereo release.
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8389351--levine-
conducts-mahler-symphonies-nos-1-4-brahms-symphony-no-1
My mistake! Is the session in which the Mahler was completed so quickly
recording time was available for an unplanned Brahms?
Stephen
The Brahms 1 was recorded with leftover time from the Mahler 3 sessions in July 1975. The rest of the cycle was then recorded a year later.

--Jeff
Bozo
2018-07-26 16:46:01 UTC
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WQXR picks 2 sets of the complete Brahms symphonies as among the best July releases :

https://www.wqxr.org/story/best-new-classical-releases-july-2018
g***@gmail.com
2018-07-27 03:02:45 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
The following review articles may be of interest:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=vYlaW8GwD4XW_wSGzYuICQ&q=%22best+brahms+4th&oq=%22best+brahms+4th&gs_l=psy-ab.3...10794.17950.0.18286.17.16.0.0.0.0.227.2400.0j14j1.15.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.13.2155.0..0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i20i263i264k1j0i22i30k1.0.3M9HxFPsn4w
y***@gmail.com
2018-07-28 13:25:24 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
I am fond of Kleiber and the VPO among the older performances and Mackerras/s Telarc version with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra.
MIFrost
2018-07-28 19:03:36 UTC
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Post by y***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
I am fond of Kleiber and the VPO among the older performances and Mackerras/s Telarc version with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra.
Agree with both, particularly Mackerras.

MIFrost
Oscar
2018-07-28 22:22:51 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Agree with both, particularly Mackerras.
I need to listen to that one again. Venzago with the Tapiolas is my current fave for that size ensemble. Avoid Zinman on Sony for traditional interpretation.
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-29 03:10:31 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
I have responded to similar queries over the past 25 years on this NG reminding people how fine Leinsdorf's Brahms symphonies are with the Boston Symphony from the 1960s. All are beautifully played by a large orchestra (my personal preference over slimmed-down ensembles in this repertoire). Leinsdorf's readings are slightly on the cool side, but things heat up in the Fourth. I've been told here that this set is available in Japan but, as far as I know, only the Second has made it to CD in the U.S. If you find these at a reasonable price, go for them.
Russ (not Martha)
2018-07-30 16:21:09 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
I have responded to similar queries over the past 25 years on this NG reminding people how fine Leinsdorf's Brahms symphonies are with the Boston Symphony from the 1960s. All are beautifully played by a large orchestra (my personal preference over slimmed-down ensembles in this repertoire). Leinsdorf's readings are slightly on the cool side, but things heat up in the Fourth. I've been told here that this set is available in Japan but, as far as I know, only the Second has made it to CD in the U.S. If you find these at a reasonable price, go for them.
Agree wholeheartedly regarding the Leinsdorf/BSO Brahms cycle, although I do prefer Steinberg/Pittsburgh in Sym #2 with its electrifying finale. At one time I was able to borrow an open-reel of the Leinsdorf Brahms symphony cycle and remastered the 3rd & 4th symphonies to CD for myself. Alas, was not able to do the 1st symphony which had an uncorrectable defect in the 1st movt.

Other than the Tower Records Japan TWCL reissues of Leinsdorf's Brahms symphony cycle, I think there was a set on Retrospective which included also the German Requiem and the Tragic Overture (the latter kinda stodgy if memory serves).

Russ (not Martha)
Lawrence Kart
2018-07-30 17:47:41 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
Wand/NDR

https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Symphony-No-minor-Op/dp/B00111T37I/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1532972761&sr=1-5&keywords=brahms+wand+4

Larry Kart
Alex Brown
2018-07-29 05:12:26 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
There are just so many good ones. A couple of faves ATM:

Haitink/Concertgebouw (Philips/Decca 1972) - no messing, which benefits
this symphony. Beautiful without being glitzy and everything just right
... maybe to a fault?

C. Kleiber/Vienna (DGG 1980) - often has that special CK lean sonority
and tension - possibly hangs fire in the finale a little?
--
- Alex Brown
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-30 12:32:25 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
Of newer recordings Ivan Fischer with Budapest Festival Orchestra is my favorite, very Hungarian.

Also maybe not clear cut recommendation but I found a lot of interesting touches and details in Berglund's Chamber Orchestra of Europe recording on Ondine.

Of older recordings there are many good ones. I like Carlos Kleiber VPO lean and mean classic, Furtwangler's VPO recording from Salzburg 1950, thou it is bit dim sounding in all transfers I heard. Markevitch with Lamoureux on DG is also excellent, love the sound of the orchestra. Also on DG (recently boxed) De Sabata with BPO in 1938 with daringly slow andante.
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-30 14:54:32 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Markevitch with Lamoureux on DG is also excellent,
Excellent pick. Markevitch recorded more than a few gems at the time.
jrsnfld
2018-08-01 09:03:01 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
There are so many great Brahms cycles with excellent 4ths in good sound.

Recently my go-to cycle has been the superb Asahina/Osaka cycle on Pony Canyon--so many wonderful details rendered just right, so much logical force behind every decision, so satisfying, fine sound. A great 4th with a sense of inevitability.

One of my favorite 4ths is Mravinsky/Leningrad from 1973. Wonderful flow in his phrasing, as always, richly appointed orchestra. Maybe not perfect for every taste, and certainly the sound obscures some of the detail. Unless you're a Mravinsky fan, it might not separate itself from other elite performances. But stick around to the fourth movement and oh my , what a tour de force of imposing, intimidating orchestral utterance! Oozing from every pore its exquisite, precisely crafted expression. Well worth hearing--probably easy to find on YT for a test drive.

And: Dated but clear sonics are nicely balanced in the Markevitch/Lamoureux on DG, and Markevitch is equally clear eyed and clear headed, as always. He was born to conduct this music. Right from the opening, it moves smartly, confidently, beautifully. Very far from the (equally wonderful) wallows of the later Bernstein recording, closer to Kleiber but here we never lose warmth and refined color.

The Lamoreaux orchestra has gorgeous wind playing, especially the flute in the last movement, by the way--essentially to any successful Brahms.

-Jeff
Frank Berger
2018-08-01 14:51:55 UTC
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Post by jrsnfld
Post by Bob Harper
I know there was a thread about this not too long ago, but I'm unable to
find it. Recommendations, either alone or in a set.
TIA.
Bob Harper
There are so many great Brahms cycles with excellent 4ths in good sound.
Recently my go-to cycle has been the superb Asahina/Osaka cycle on Pony Canyon--so many wonderful details rendered just right, so much logical force behind every decision, so satisfying, fine sound. A great 4th with a sense of inevitability.
No sign of this, but I see an Asahina Brahms with the New Japan
Philharmonic. Are you familiar with that? Amazing how little Asahina
is in print, even in Japan.
Post by jrsnfld
One of my favorite 4ths is Mravinsky/Leningrad from 1973. Wonderful flow in his phrasing, as always, richly appointed orchestra. Maybe not perfect for every taste, and certainly the sound obscures some of the detail. Unless you're a Mravinsky fan, it might not separate itself from other elite performances. But stick around to the fourth movement and oh my , what a tour de force of imposing, intimidating orchestral utterance! Oozing from every pore its exquisite, precisely crafted expression. Well worth hearing--probably easy to find on YT for a test drive.
And: Dated but clear sonics are nicely balanced in the Markevitch/Lamoureux on DG, and Markevitch is equally clear eyed and clear headed, as always. He was born to conduct this music. Right from the opening, it moves smartly, confidently, beautifully. Very far from the (equally wonderful) wallows of the later Bernstein recording, closer to Kleiber but here we never lose warmth and refined color.
The Lamoreaux orchestra has gorgeous wind playing, especially the flute in the last movement, by the way--essentially to any successful Brahms.
-Jeff
jrsnfld
2018-08-01 17:57:11 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by jrsnfld
Recently my go-to cycle has been the superb Asahina/Osaka cycle on Pony Canyon--so many wonderful details rendered just right, so much logical force behind every decision, so satisfying, fine sound. A great 4th with a sense of inevitability.
No sign of this, but I see an Asahina Brahms with the New Japan
Philharmonic. Are you familiar with that? Amazing how little Asahina
is in print, even in Japan.
I don't know that New Japan Philharmonic cycle, on Fontec. I'll take a listen to the Brahms with that orchestra on YouTube. The thumbnail picture suggests it's from the same cycle.

The Bruckner I have with that orchestra and Asahina is well played. None of these orchestras have the instantly seductive strengths of a Berlin Phil or a Philadelphia Orchestra, but they are much better than just "acceptable"--because of great attention to phrasing and balances, etc.

A way-back rmcr post from Henry Fogel (of course) mentioned three Asahina cycles in his collection:

BRAHMS Symphonies 1-4 (1979-80; Osaka Phil) Japanese Victor
VICC 40162-65
BRAHMS Symphonies 1-4; Haydn Variations (1989-90; New Japan Phil)
Fontec FOCD 9035-38
BRAHMS Symphonies 1-4 (1994-95; Osaka Phil) Canyon Classics
PCCL 00306

Obviously I haven't heard the first two. But I also see on Amazon another Brahms recording with the Tokyo Metropolitan SO, so maybe there is a fourth cycle on CD. And here someone mentioned a DVD cycle with the OsakaPO:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/forum/recordings/takashi-asahina-and-bruckner

Here's a picture of the Pony/Canyon cycle from Osaka that I have on CD. Apparently someone uploaded a copy:

http://bayreuthclassical.blogspot.com/2013/01/brahms-complete-symphonies-takashi.html

--Jeff
m***@gmail.com
2018-08-02 11:22:30 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
No sign of this, but I see an Asahina Brahms with the New Japan
Philharmonic. Are you familiar with that? Amazing how little Asahina
is in print, even in Japan.
I owned that at one point. Very "hall" sound. Mushy, if I recall. I got rid of it quickly.
Frank Berger
2018-08-02 13:18:59 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
No sign of this, but I see an Asahina Brahms with the New Japan
Philharmonic. Are you familiar with that? Amazing how little Asahina
is in print, even in Japan.
I owned that at one point. Very "hall" sound. Mushy, if I recall. I got rid of it quickly.
Oy. Just ordered it.
jrsnfld
2018-08-02 16:45:43 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
No sign of this, but I see an Asahina Brahms with the New Japan
Philharmonic. Are you familiar with that? Amazing how little Asahina
is in print, even in Japan.
I owned that at one point. Very "hall" sound. Mushy, if I recall. I got rid of it quickly.
Oy. Just ordered it.
I wouldn't lament just yet.

If this is the same as the New Japan Philharmonic Brahms 4 uploaded to YT (from 19 March 2001), then you're getting Asahina at about 4 minutes quicker than he was in the recording I have--the Osaka set on Pony Canyon (28 May 1995). The interpretation benefits--I listened to it yesterday and would prefer it on that basis to my Osaka CD.

At the slower paces, the Osaka performance is too dignified and cautious for a lot of tastes and temperaments, and the differences in orchestra aren't major. I sensed the Osaka strings may be slightly better in a few passages, but the New Japan winds were more to my taste. As for sound, YT isn't the best way to judge, but on a decent sound system it was not bad at all. Not mushy by my standards .

All in all, if I come across the New Japan set at an attractive price, I might buy it even though I already have another Asahina set. On the other hand, of course, there's only so far one can go with Asahina's Brahms. It reminds me a bit the Kubelik set on Orfeo actually--beautifully done, serious, revealing, intelligent, central, polished--but not trying to grab anyone by the collar the way a Mravinsky, Furtwangler, Toscanini, or even a young Levine could do.

--Jeff
m***@gmail.com
2018-08-03 02:07:54 UTC
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Frank and Jeff- I've sent you both individual emails with a link to download the JVC cycle. Let me know if you don't get it.
Frank Berger
2018-08-03 03:17:10 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Frank and Jeff- I've sent you both individual emails with a link to download the JVC cycle. Let me know if you don't get it.
Thank you.
jrsnfld
2018-08-03 05:26:05 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Frank and Jeff- I've sent you both individual emails with a link to download the JVC cycle. Let me know if you don't get it.
Very generous...and thanks!

I am particularly taken by how masterfully Asahina tightens the screws of tension as Passacaglia progresses, by the weight of timpani and the color and attack of the orchestra. Basically just doing what the music gives him and no more.

--Jeff
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