Discussion:
Mahler 8th/Boulez live
(too old to reply)
David7Gable
2004-12-16 20:27:12 UTC
Permalink
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of Matthew
Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?" Yes. I love
it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by Part 2. It's
unbelievable.

I'm also blown away by the live BBC SO recording with Boulez, my favorite
performance of the 8th bar none. If this isn't one of the greatest
performances of anything Boulez ever gave, I don't know what is. One
symptomatic detail. He takes Faust's music at just about as slow a tempo as
I've ever heard with no slackening in the sustained forward motion. In the
right repertory, which most emphatically includes Wagner, Bruckner, and Mahler,
music fundamentally dependent on a sostenuto style, Boulez is able to sustain a
long line in the most remarkable fashion, at once invisibly and palpably: you
can't quite figure out how he's doing it, but you can feel the results. He can
unfold a long slow gradual process at near glacial tempi--through one long
sustained but growing note in the sostenuto texture to the next--with a
sustained tension that's not to be believed. Every line in the counterpoint is
distinctively shaped so that it's seen to move purposefully toward a proximate
goal. At the other extreme, he inscribes the lightening quick shifts in
dynamics that underline the cadences punctuating the opening slow movement with
consummate control. There is no gross excess. Everything is exactly the right
weight and everything is moving. Nothing escapes the intensely single minded,
purposeful, and unflagging control of the alert, rapt, fascinated and
thoroughly involved musicality at the helm of this soaring and moving
performance. Mahler meets his match. Wow!

-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-12-16 20:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of
Matthew Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?"
Yes. I love it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by
Part 2. It's unbelievable.
I'm also blown away by the live BBC SO recording with Boulez, my favorite
performance of the 8th bar none. If this isn't one of the greatest
performances of anything Boulez ever gave, I don't know what is. One
symptomatic detail. He takes Faust's music at just about as slow a tempo
as I've ever heard with no slackening in the sustained forward motion. In
the right repertory, which most emphatically includes Wagner, Bruckner, and
Mahler, music fundamentally dependent on a sostenuto style, Boulez is able
to sustain a long line in the most remarkable fashion, at once invisibly
and palpably: you can't quite figure out how he's doing it, but you can
feel the results. He can unfold a long slow gradual process at near
glacial tempi--through one long sustained but growing note in the sostenuto
texture to the next--with a sustained tension that's not to be believed.
Every line in the counterpoint is distinctively shaped so that it's seen to
move purposefully toward a proximate goal. At the other extreme, he
inscribes the lightening quick shifts in dynamics that underline the
cadences punctuating the opening slow movement with consummate control.
There is no gross excess. Everything is exactly the right weight and
everything is moving. Nothing escapes the intensely single minded,
purposeful, and unflagging control of the alert, rapt, fascinated and
thoroughly involved musicality at the helm of this soaring and moving
performance. Mahler meets his match. Wow!
What is the availability of this item?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Ian Pace
2004-12-16 20:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by David7Gable
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of
Matthew Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?"
Yes. I love it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by
Part 2. It's unbelievable.
I'm also blown away by the live BBC SO recording with Boulez, my favorite
performance of the 8th bar none. If this isn't one of the greatest
performances of anything Boulez ever gave, I don't know what is. One
symptomatic detail. He takes Faust's music at just about as slow a tempo
as I've ever heard with no slackening in the sustained forward motion.
In
the right repertory, which most emphatically includes Wagner, Bruckner, and
Mahler, music fundamentally dependent on a sostenuto style, Boulez is able
to sustain a long line in the most remarkable fashion, at once invisibly
and palpably: you can't quite figure out how he's doing it, but you can
feel the results. He can unfold a long slow gradual process at near
glacial tempi--through one long sustained but growing note in the sostenuto
texture to the next--with a sustained tension that's not to be believed.
Every line in the counterpoint is distinctively shaped so that it's seen to
move purposefully toward a proximate goal. At the other extreme, he
inscribes the lightening quick shifts in dynamics that underline the
cadences punctuating the opening slow movement with consummate control.
There is no gross excess. Everything is exactly the right weight and
everything is moving. Nothing escapes the intensely single minded,
purposeful, and unflagging control of the alert, rapt, fascinated and
thoroughly involved musicality at the helm of this soaring and moving
performance. Mahler meets his match. Wow!
What is the availability of this item?
And when does the performance date from?

Ian
Theresa
2004-12-16 21:11:48 UTC
Permalink
I got it earlier this year (from MDT).
My reaction wasn't quite as enthusiastic, but it
certainly is a very good performance. Be warned
however that Remedios had a bad cold or something
on the night of the performance.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
What is the availability of this item?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
jaggedrhythm
2004-12-16 21:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of Matthew
Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?" Yes.
I love
Post by David7Gable
it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by Part 2.
It's
Post by David7Gable
unbelievable.
[many interesting observations snipped]

Oh heavens, I adore this symphony! (I'm not logged on to r.m.c.r. that
often, so probably missed the original comments.)

It has puzzled me that No. 8 seems to polarize people. Those who love
all the other symphonies don't care for this one, or those who love the
Eighth don't seem to care for any of the others. I loved it the first
time I heard it, and even via Haitink's recording that many seem to
hate. After investigating versions by Abbado, Sinopoli, Chailly and
Tennstedt, and hearing it live at least five times that I can recall,
it has pretty well secured a place on my "top ten favorite works" list,
and will probably stay there for a very long time.

I will definitely seek out this Boulez recording -- thanks for the
comments.

--Bruce
jaggedrhythm
2004-12-16 22:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of Matthew
Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?" Yes.
I love
Post by David7Gable
it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by Part 2.
It's
Post by David7Gable
unbelievable.
[remainder of interesting comments snipped]

Oh heavens, I adore this symphony! (I'm not logged on to r.m.c.r. that
often, so probably missed the original comments.)

It has puzzled me that No. 8 seems to polarize people. Those who love
all the other symphonies don't care for this one, or those who love the
Eighth don't seem to care for any of the others. I loved it the first
time I heard it, and even via Haitink's recording that many seem to
hate. After investigating versions by Abbado, Sinopoli, Chailly and
Tennstedt, and hearing it live at least five times that I can recall,
it has pretty well secured a place on my "top ten favorite works" list,
and will probably stay there for a very long time.

I will definitely seek out this Boulez recording -- thanks for the
comments.

--Bruce
David7Gable
2004-12-16 22:34:25 UTC
Permalink
I have a bad habit of neglecting to include the vital stats.

Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
London, 1975
ARTISTS Live Recordings FED 041-42

The recorded sound is very good as such things go. There's also a live New
York performance from a year earlier floating around out there, but the London
performance is better. (The London performance is coupled with a much less
impressive Nuits d'été with Minton and Burrows sharing the songs.)

-david gable
JRsnfld
2004-12-16 22:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Mahler 8th/Boulez live
Date: 12/16/2004 2:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
I have a bad habit of neglecting to include the vital stats.
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
London, 1975
ARTISTS Live Recordings FED 041-42
The recorded sound is very good as such things go. There's also a live New
York performance from a year earlier floating around out there, but the London
performance is better. (The London performance is coupled with a much less
impressive Nuits d'été with Minton and Burrows sharing the songs.)
-david gable
This performance is superb. It has been listed for the last month or so at
Berkshire, on the Living Stage label. I assume the sound is no better or worse
on that label; I have the Artists Live release instead.

--Jeff
Van Eyes
2004-12-16 23:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRsnfld
This performance is superb. It has been listed for the last month or so at
Berkshire, on the Living Stage label. I assume the sound is no better or worse
on that label; I have the Artists Live release instead.
Howz the performance & sound compare to the '59 LSO/Horenstein(BBC
Legends)?

Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Tom Deacon
2004-12-17 01:08:41 UTC
Permalink
On 12/16/04 5:50 PM, in article
Post by JRsnfld
Subject: Re: Mahler 8th/Boulez live
Date: 12/16/2004 2:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
I have a bad habit of neglecting to include the vital stats.
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
London, 1975
ARTISTS Live Recordings FED 041-42
The recorded sound is very good as such things go. There's also a live New
York performance from a year earlier floating around out there, but the London
performance is better. (The London performance is coupled with a much less
impressive Nuits d'été with Minton and Burrows sharing the songs.)
-david gable
This performance is superb. It has been listed for the last month or so at
Berkshire, on the Living Stage label. I assume the sound is no better or worse
on that label; I have the Artists Live release instead.
I have to say that I am appalled by the various comments about this
recording.

The Mahler 8 is one work which I will walk out of without the slightest
hesitation, yes, even if Jesus Christ Himself - or more likely, Mahler -
were conducting the work.

I am also appalled that yet again we have a "pirate" item for which neither
Mr. Boulez, nor any of the other forces, have been paid for their services
as "recording artists".

It will probably never happen, but I do fervently hope that one day, when
they are screaming in excrutiating pain in the hotest level of Hell, the
promoters of such unadulterated garbage - music and recording - will repent.
It will, of course, be too late.

If and when Mr. Boulez, or the BBC and Boulez, decide to record or release
his interpretation of Mahler 8 for public consumption, then and only then
will it be appropriate to comment on what he does with this dreck.

Until then, any interest in the ARTISTS LIVE CDs, or LIVING STAGE CDs, is
only going to serve the cupidity of the pirates who have produced this
material for sale.

TD
Raymond Hall
2004-12-17 01:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
I have to say that I am appalled by the various comments about this
recording.
The Mahler 8 is one work which I will walk out of without the slightest
hesitation, yes, even if Jesus Christ Himself - or more likely, Mahler -
were conducting the work.
I am also appalled that yet again we have a "pirate" item for which neither
Mr. Boulez, nor any of the other forces, have been paid for their services
as "recording artists".
It will probably never happen, but I do fervently hope that one day, when
they are screaming in excrutiating pain in the hotest level of Hell, the
promoters of such unadulterated garbage - music and recording - will repent.
It will, of course, be too late.
As you, and only you, have called the music "dreck", then why should you
bother to comment? Too advanced for you is it?

Oh well, there is always a NEW 1812 overture or a Rach pc 2 to look forward
to. For you, and several hundred other gullible newbies.

Ray H
Taree
David7Gable
2004-12-17 03:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
If and when Mr. Boulez, or the BBC and Boulez, decide to record or release
his interpretation of Mahler 8 for public consumption, then and only then
will it be appropriate to comment on what he does with this dreck.
Boulez wanted to record Mahler symphonies for Columbia Records when he was
under contract to them in the early 70's. They refused, fearing that Boulez's
recordings would hurt without equaling sales for Bernstein's recordings. He
probably will record the 8th for DGG, and odds are overwhelming the results
won't be nearly as enthralling as the average live performance from earlier in
his career. I certainly hope Boulez's reputation as a conductor won't rest on
the late DGG recordings.

-david gable
Tom Deacon
2004-12-17 11:37:57 UTC
Permalink
On 12/16/04 10:20 PM, in article
Post by David7Gable
Post by Tom Deacon
If and when Mr. Boulez, or the BBC and Boulez, decide to record or release
his interpretation of Mahler 8 for public consumption, then and only then
will it be appropriate to comment on what he does with this dreck.
Boulez wanted to record Mahler symphonies for Columbia Records when he was
under contract to them in the early 70's. They refused, fearing that Boulez's
recordings would hurt without equaling sales for Bernstein's recordings. He
probably will record the 8th for DGG, and odds are overwhelming the results
won't be nearly as enthralling as the average live performance from earlier in
his career. I certainly hope Boulez's reputation as a conductor won't rest on
the late DGG recordings.
Surely Mr. Boulez is in charge of his "reputation", as you put it.

I would have thought that nothing much could be done to influence our
opinion of the man and his music at this point. Certainly Mahler 8 is
unlikely to be of much help.

TD
Clovis Lark
2004-12-17 17:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
On 12/16/04 10:20 PM, in article
Post by David7Gable
Post by Tom Deacon
If and when Mr. Boulez, or the BBC and Boulez, decide to record or release
his interpretation of Mahler 8 for public consumption, then and only then
will it be appropriate to comment on what he does with this dreck.
Boulez wanted to record Mahler symphonies for Columbia Records when he was
under contract to them in the early 70's. They refused, fearing that Boulez's
recordings would hurt without equaling sales for Bernstein's recordings. He
probably will record the 8th for DGG, and odds are overwhelming the results
won't be nearly as enthralling as the average live performance from earlier in
his career. I certainly hope Boulez's reputation as a conductor won't rest on
the late DGG recordings.
Surely Mr. Boulez is in charge of his "reputation", as you put it.
As we all know, public response over time determines reputation. While
the "person of repute" is an actor, it is collective criticism that
established reputation. Boulez sees recordings as frozen snapshots of a
work interpreted by a performer. Thus, while he clearly records a lot, he
attaches less significance to the results than most here. Thus, he really
isn't in any significant control of his reputation, nor does he seem to
show much public interest in it. Personally, he may feel strongly
otherwise, but in 30 years...
Post by Tom Deacon
I would have thought that nothing much could be done to influence our
opinion of the man and his music at this point. Certainly Mahler 8 is
unlikely to be of much help.
QED
Post by Tom Deacon
TD
Simon Roberts
2004-12-17 19:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clovis Lark
As we all know, public response over time determines reputation. While
the "person of repute" is an actor, it is collective criticism that
established reputation. Boulez sees recordings as frozen snapshots of a
work interpreted by a performer. Thus, while he clearly records a lot, he
attaches less significance to the results than most here. Thus, he really
isn't in any significant control of his reputation, nor does he seem to
show much public interest in it. Personally, he may feel strongly
otherwise, but in 30 years...
Does he share Mr. Deacon's belief that those who sell (and, perhaps, buy)
unauthorized recordings of his live performances deserve placement the hottest
level of hell?

Simon
Tom Deacon
2004-12-18 00:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by Clovis Lark
As we all know, public response over time determines reputation. While
the "person of repute" is an actor, it is collective criticism that
established reputation. Boulez sees recordings as frozen snapshots of a
work interpreted by a performer. Thus, while he clearly records a lot, he
attaches less significance to the results than most here. Thus, he really
isn't in any significant control of his reputation, nor does he seem to
show much public interest in it. Personally, he may feel strongly
otherwise, but in 30 years...
Does he share Mr. Deacon's belief that those who sell (and, perhaps, buy)
unauthorized recordings of his live performances deserve placement the hottest
level of hell?
In view of his continuing interest in significant advances against royalties
from DG, I would imagine that he probably does share my feelings on the
appropriate fate of the dreaded pirates.

TD
David7Gable
2004-12-19 03:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
In view of his continuing interest in significant advances against royalties
from DG, I would imagine that he probably does share my feelings on the
appropriate fate of the dreaded pirates.
TD
I'm willing to bet you're making this up. Boulez has enough money to live
comfortably, and he's devoid of expensive tastes.

-david gable
Gareth Williams
2004-12-17 12:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Jon A Conrad
2004-12-17 19:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
I didn't get the impression that Mr. Gable's rave was at all related to
the soloists.

In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is
unfortunately off form for this performance. I'm not sure whether he was
ill, or having troubles generally, or if this role was never right for
him... but whatever the cause, he muffs all his climactic moments in Part
II -- generally cracking into falsetto or non-tone. Too bad, because I've
admired so much of what I've heard him do elsewhere, and his voice and
artistry *seem* as if they ought to be ideal for this piece.

That's one of the reasons why Solti still ranks high on lists of
recommendations here -- he has such a splendid octet of soloists, and
they're all at their best for him. This is a formidable asset, one that
wins back whatever points might get knocked off for his conducting. (I did
hear him conduct the piece more knowledgeably in Chicago in the early
1980s.)

I'll take my stand with those who find the 8th to be an inexhaustible
masterwork (and I love the other Mahler symphonies too, so it's not an
either/or). I own a great number of recordings of it, and each gives me
some element I can't find in any of the others.

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
***@udel.edu
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-12-17 20:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon A Conrad
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth
Connell (mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor);
Siegmund Nimsgern (baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers,
BBC Choral Society, Scottish National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth
School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Boulez
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
I didn't get the impression that Mr. Gable's rave was at all related to
the soloists.
In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is unfortunately
off form for this performance. I'm not sure whether he was ill, or having
troubles generally, or if this role was never right for him... but whatever
the cause, he muffs all his climactic moments in Part II -- generally
cracking into falsetto or non-tone. Too bad, because I've admired so much
of what I've heard him do elsewhere, and his voice and artistry *seem* as
if they ought to be ideal for this piece.
That's one of the reasons why Solti still ranks high on lists of
recommendations here -- he has such a splendid octet of soloists, and
they're all at their best for him. This is a formidable asset, one that
wins back whatever points might get knocked off for his conducting. (I
did hear him conduct the piece more knowledgeably in Chicago in the
early 1980s.)
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out to be
inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Post by Jon A Conrad
I'll take my stand with those who find the 8th to be an inexhaustible
masterwork (and I love the other Mahler symphonies too, so it's not an
either/or). I own a great number of recordings of it, and each gives me
some element I can't find in any of the others.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Gareth Williams
2004-12-17 21:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Jon A Conrad
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth
Connell (mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor);
Siegmund Nimsgern (baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass)
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is unfortunately
off form for this performance.
That's one of the reasons why Solti still ranks high on lists of
recommendations - he has such a splendid octet of soloists, and
they're all at their best for him.
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out to be
inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Wasn't that story to do with his Siegfried for the Ring recordings? He
settled on Wolfgang Windgassen in the end, after failing to achieve the
sow's ear/silk purse trick with Ernst Kozub (I believe it was he). Might
also have been true of his M8, of course - in which case poor old Georg
must've had some sort of tenor jinx afflicting him.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Jon A Conrad
2004-12-17 21:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Gareth Williams <***@nospam.com> wrote:

["tenor problem"]
Post by Gareth Williams
Wasn't that story to do with his Siegfried for the Ring recordings? He
settled on Wolfgang Windgassen in the end, after failing to achieve the
sow's ear/silk purse trick with Ernst Kozub (I believe it was he).
It was indeed Kozub.
Post by Gareth Williams
Might also have been true of his M8, of course -
It was, as I responded elsewhere: Rene Kollo in for Robert Tear. The
difference in this case would be that we don't know the reason for Tear's
replacement; to my ears the timbre would be wildly wrong for the M8, but
he may have been simply indisposed or otherwise unavailable. Surely it
would not have been a case of musical or part-learning inadequacy, as it
had been with Kozub.
Post by Gareth Williams
in which case poor old Georg
must've had some sort of tenor jinx afflicting him.
He did! Because the same thing happened with his Bayreuth RING. (In fact,
I can't even call it a jinx by that time; he should have known better.)
Among those who auditioned for Siegfried, he was seduced by the vocal
*potential* of Reiner Goldberg even though he'd not yet sung the part.
(He's quoted in Fay's THE RING as saying "That's it! I take risk!")  And
he proved unable to learn it to an acceptable musical level, as well as to
act to a minimal level, and was replaced at the last minute by Manfred
Jung, who'd done the previous cycle there.

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
***@udel.edu
Gareth Williams
2004-12-17 23:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon A Conrad
["tenor problem"]
Wasn't that to do with his Siegfried? He settled on Windgassen after
failing to achieve the sow's ear/silk purse trick with Ernst Kozub.
It was indeed Kozub.
Might also have been true of his M8, of course
It was, as I responded elsewhere: Rene Kollo in for Robert Tear
[whose] timbre would be wildly wrong for the M8 [to my ears]
Not so sure. Tear is not dissimilar to Kollo - they both have the habit
of "pushing up to the note". I've always thought of both Tear and Kollo
as "stretched baritones" and not natural tenors as such.
Post by Jon A Conrad
Georg must've had some sort of tenor jinx afflicting him.
He did! Because the same thing happened with his Bayreuth RING. Among
those who auditioned for Siegfried, he was seduced by the vocal
*potential* of Reiner Goldberg
I can understand why - his Parsifal for Armin Jordan has to be one of the
most beautifully sung on record. Wish they'd re-release it on CD.
Post by Jon A Conrad
And he proved unable to learn it to an acceptable musical level, as well
as to act to a minimal level, and was replaced at the last minute by
Manfred Jung, who'd done the previous cycle there.
Hopefully Jung had learnt how to act by then - in the Boulez ring he was
so wooden that Brünnhilde needn't have bothered asking for any more
"Starke Scheite" to heap on his pyre ;o)
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
David7Gable
2004-12-19 04:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gareth Williams
- in which case poor old Georg
must've had some sort of tenor jinx afflicting him.
Bjoerling was supposed to be the Riccardo in Solti's first recording of Ballo.
Bjoerling backed out and was replaced by Carlo Bergonzi.

-david gable
Joseph Vitale
2004-12-17 21:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Jon A Conrad
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos);
Elizabeth Connell (mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto
Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern (baritone); Marius Rintzler
(bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish National
Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
I didn't get the impression that Mr. Gable's rave was at all related
to the soloists.
In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is
unfortunately off form for this performance. I'm not sure whether he
was ill, or having troubles generally, or if this role was never
right for him... but whatever the cause, he muffs all his climactic
moments in Part II -- generally cracking into falsetto or non-tone.
Too bad, because I've admired so much of what I've heard him do
elsewhere, and his voice and artistry *seem* as if they ought to be
ideal for this piece.
That's one of the reasons why Solti still ranks high on lists of
recommendations here -- he has such a splendid octet of soloists, and
they're all at their best for him. This is a formidable asset, one
that wins back whatever points might get knocked off for his
conducting. (I did hear him conduct the piece more knowledgeably in
Chicago in the early 1980s.)
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out
to be inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Yes, most of Rene Kollo's singing was dubbed in later -and not very well.
It sounds as if the Symphony of a Thousand left no room inside the
Sofiensaal and poor Rene had to be miked from the garage outside.
Michael Schaffer
2004-12-18 09:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Jon A Conrad
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by David7Gable
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos);
Elizabeth Connell (mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto
Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern (baritone); Marius Rintzler
(bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish National
Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
That's one hell of a cast. No wonder you like it.
I didn't get the impression that Mr. Gable's rave was at all related
to the soloists.
In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is
unfortunately off form for this performance. I'm not sure whether he
was ill, or having troubles generally, or if this role was never
right for him... but whatever the cause, he muffs all his climactic
moments in Part II -- generally cracking into falsetto or non-tone.
Too bad, because I've admired so much of what I've heard him do
elsewhere, and his voice and artistry *seem* as if they ought to be
ideal for this piece.
That's one of the reasons why Solti still ranks high on lists of
recommendations here -- he has such a splendid octet of soloists, and
they're all at their best for him. This is a formidable asset, one
that wins back whatever points might get knocked off for his
conducting. (I did hear him conduct the piece more knowledgeably in
Chicago in the early 1980s.)
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out
to be inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Yes, most of Rene Kollo's singing was dubbed in later -and not very well.
It sounds as if the Symphony of a Thousand left no room inside the
Sofiensaal and poor Rene had to be miked from the garage outside.
You probably read about that somewhere. Would you have been able to tell
from just hearing the recording? Most definitely absolutely not.
Jon A Conrad
2004-12-18 14:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Schaffer
Post by Joseph Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out
to be inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Yes, most of Rene Kollo's singing was dubbed in later -and not very well.
It sounds as if the Symphony of a Thousand left no room inside the
Sofiensaal and poor Rene had to be miked from the garage outside.
You probably read about that somewhere. Would you have been able to tell
from just hearing the recording? Most definitely absolutely not.
In most cases (especially these days) postdubbing is pretty well
undetectable, I agree. Not in this case; the different acoustic in Part I
is obvious. (And in fact, though the advance article mentioned the tenor
substitution, it had said nothing of postdubbing. I had naively assumed he
was in the Sofiensaal singing with everyone else, till ultimately I
couldn't ignore the evidence of my years, "most definitely absoultely.")

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
***@udel.edu
Simon Roberts
2004-12-18 15:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Schaffer
Post by Joseph Vitale
Yes, most of Rene Kollo's singing was dubbed in later -and not very well.
It sounds as if the Symphony of a Thousand left no room inside the
Sofiensaal and poor Rene had to be miked from the garage outside.
You probably read about that somewhere. Would you have been able to tell
from just hearing the recording? Most definitely absolutely not.
It's quite obvious if you listen via headphones (just as it's quite obvious how
often Dernesch's contribution is dubbed into Karajan's wonderful Fidelio).

Simon
Andrew T. Kay
2004-12-19 05:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Simon Roberts wrote:

[dubbing]
Post by Simon Roberts
It's quite obvious if you listen via headphones (just as it's quite obvious how
often Dernesch's contribution is dubbed into Karajan's wonderful Fidelio).
I haven't listened to that via headphones in a couple of years, but still
remember how jarring that dub job is. She's in such a sharply contrasting
acoustic that if you didn't know the plot of the opera, you'd think she's
supposed to be conversing with the other characters from the spirit world, or
something. My memory is that the problem either begins or gets worse in the
second half of the opera: the gravedigging duet, the entirety of the climactic
scene in Florestan's cell, etc. Is it in the first part too?

It is the major blemish on that set.

I've also read that Pavarotti "phoned it in" entirely as Riccardo for Solti's
digital remake of BALLO (with M. Price, Bruson, Ludwig, and Battle), and that
it was a particularly horrid and obvious patch job; but I ditched that set for
other reasons without ever noticing. I don't think I ever listened to it in on
headphones.


--Todd K

Matthew B. Tepper
2004-12-18 17:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Schaffer
Post by Joseph Vitale
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out
to be inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
Yes, most of Rene Kollo's singing was dubbed in later -and not very
well. It sounds as if the Symphony of a Thousand left no room inside
the Sofiensaal and poor Rene had to be miked from the garage outside.
You probably read about that somewhere. Would you have been able to tell
from just hearing the recording? Most definitely absolutely not.
I bought this recording on LPs when it came out, and I've *always* noticed
the different acoustic of the tenor.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Paul Kintzele
2004-12-18 18:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I bought this recording on LPs when it came out, and I've *always* noticed
the different acoustic of the tenor.
Same here. My first exposure to the Solti Mahler 8 was on cd, and I
noticed it right off the bat. And that was while listening on a
portable player. It's a pretty noticeable acoustic difference.

The funny thing is, they go to these extreme (even disfiguring) lengths
to dub in Kollo, and he's not really all that good.

Paul
Jon A Conrad
2004-12-17 21:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Didn't Solti have a "tenor problem" too, where one singer turned out to be
inadequate and another had to be tracked in?
The reason and timing have not been publicly divulged, to my knowledge
(i.e., I don't know if he was "found inadequate" or replaced for some
other reason, nor whether the switch occurred before or at the sessions).
But yes, Robert Tear was announced in advance, and then the HIGH FIDELITY
session report said that Rene Kollo jumped in at the last minute (whenever
that might be). Whatever his faults, he's certainly more the sort of voice
for the part than Tear, as well as a fast learner. The fact that he was
tracked in is clearly audible in parts of the first movement, where he
sometimes moves to notes a hair late and is in a different acoustic. In
Part II, either they disguise it better, or he did sing some or all of it
with the orchestra, "live."

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
***@udel.edu
a***@aol.com
2004-12-19 04:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Cannot say about Maestro Solti's tenor problem but he most certainly
had a conducting problem in that he could not count accurately. For
which he was known in different parts of the globe as a total
nightmare.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
a***@aol.com
2004-12-19 04:20:31 UTC
Permalink
PS: to which I would add the Very Old Orchestral Joke: "If you shout at
us once more like that we are going to follow YOU in the concert..."
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
David7Gable
2004-12-19 04:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon A Conrad
In any case, while it's a strong lineup of names, Remedios is
unfortunately off form for this performance. I'm not sure whether he was
ill, or having troubles generally, or if this role was never right for
him... but whatever the cause, he muffs all his climactic moments in Part
II -- generally cracking into falsetto or non-tone.
While your complaints are justified, I nevertheless find plenty to admire in
his performance.

-david gable
Simon Roberts
2004-12-17 14:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
I have a bad habit of neglecting to include the vital stats.
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
London, 1975
ARTISTS Live Recordings FED 041-42
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.

Simon
Tom Deacon
2004-12-17 17:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by David7Gable
I have a bad habit of neglecting to include the vital stats.
Mahler: Symphony no. 8
Edda Moser, Linda Esther Gray, Wendi Eathorne (sopranos); Elizabeth Connell
(mezzo); Bernadette Greevy (alto); Alberto Remedios (tenor); Siegmund Nimsgern
(baritone); Marius Rintzler (bass); BBC Singers, BBC Choral Society, Scottish
National Orchestra Chorus, Wandsworth School Choir, BBC Symphony Orchestra,
Pierre Boulez
London, 1975
ARTISTS Live Recordings FED 041-42
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.
You were right the first time, Simon.

Trust your gut!

TD
Bob Lombard
2004-12-17 17:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Simon Roberts
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.
You were right the first time, Simon.
Trust your gut!
TD
Tom, in this thread several posters held in low esteem by you (that seems
to be just about everybody anyway) have indicated that the symphony is
coherent for them. If they get the message and you don't...

bl
Paul Ilechko
2004-12-17 18:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Simon Roberts
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.
You were right the first time, Simon.
Trust your gut!
TD
Tom, in this thread several posters held in low esteem by you (that seems
to be just about everybody anyway) have indicated that the symphony is
coherent for them. If they get the message and you don't...
obviously they must all be wrong !
Tom Deacon
2004-12-18 00:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Simon Roberts
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.
You were right the first time, Simon.
Trust your gut!
TD
Tom, in this thread several posters held in low esteem by you (that seems
to be just about everybody anyway) have indicated that the symphony is
coherent for them. If they get the message and you don't...
obviously they must all be wrong !
A proposition I would probably advance as well, Paul.

TD
Tom Deacon
2004-12-18 00:46:14 UTC
Permalink
On 12/17/04 12:58 PM, in article
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Simon Roberts
I'm rather embarrassed to say that I saw the TV broadcast of this, which was
completely wasted on me: it was the first time I heard any Mahler symphony, and
it struck me as an incoherent mess. It would be nice to be able to see it again
now.
You were right the first time, Simon.
Trust your gut!
TD
Tom, in this thread several posters held in low esteem by you (that seems
to be just about everybody anyway) have indicated that the symphony is
coherent for them. If they get the message and you don't...
Just because the blind and deaf imagine themselves in the middle of a
glorious thunderstorm replete with following rainbows and other special
effects does not, to my simple mind at least, indicate that one should heed
their imaginings.

TD
Raymond Hall
2004-12-16 23:11:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
I've been listening to Mahler's 8th, Part 2, this week as a result of Matthew
Tepper's anguished "Doesn't ANYBODY like this symphony but me?" Yes. I love
it. Something clicked and I am now completely convinced by Part 2. It's
unbelievable.
I'm also blown away by the live BBC SO recording with Boulez, my favorite
performance of the 8th bar none. If this isn't one of the greatest
performances of anything Boulez ever gave, I don't know what is.
Comments worth noting David. Yes, I've always felt there are parts of the
8th which are tremendous, (especially orchestral sections <g>). It is a
great feeling when one particular performance/recording finally cracks the
nut. Kubelik did this for me with the 7th. And what do you NOW think of
Kubelik's (DG) recording of the 8th? Where has it failed you? Apologies for
anything remotely associating with Gavin Briars.

Ray H
Taree
David7Gable
2004-12-17 03:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
And what do you NOW think of
Kubelik's (DG) recording of the 8th?
Love it. Haven't heard it in a year or so, but I can't believe my opinion of it
will have changed that much. I also love the Bernstein performance with the
LSO. I may listen to Part 2 from these two sets over the weekend. One
recording I actively dislike is the Solti blockbuster. I don't even think it's
bad. I just don't think it's great.

-david gable
jaggedrhythm
2004-12-17 15:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
One
recording I actively dislike is the Solti blockbuster. I don't even think it's
bad. I just don't think it's great.
I agree. If it were the sole recording of the work, I'd listen to it,
but I really don't care for the way he drives the music. I like the
CSO and all the soloists, just don't like Solti's pacing. And the
ending, which can be about as celestial as it gets, seems slightly
anticlimactic. My two cents: it was probably the first recording to
appear in excellent sound, and for many people made an impression on
that criterion alone.

--Bruce
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-12-17 15:43:22 UTC
Permalink
"jaggedrhythm" <***@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:1103295781.554364.124250
Post by jaggedrhythm
One recording I actively dislike is the Solti blockbuster. I don't even
think it's bad. I just don't think it's great.
I agree. If it were the sole recording of the work, I'd listen to it,
but I really don't care for the way he drives the music. I like the
CSO and all the soloists, just don't like Solti's pacing. And the
ending, which can be about as celestial as it gets, seems slightly
anticlimactic. My two cents: it was probably the first recording to
appear in excellent sound, and for many people made an impression on
that criterion alone.
It was my "imprint" version, and I still love it, though I've added
Horenstein, Stokowski, Morris, and Tennstedt to the list.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Gareth Williams
2004-12-17 16:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
One I dislike is the Solti. I don't even think it's bad. I just
don't think it's great.
it was probably the first recording to appear in excellent sound, and
for many people made an impression on that criterion alone.
It's still probably the best-sounding analogue recording. The (dubbed)
organ has rarely been bettered, neither has the beginning of the 1st mvt,
its end (the way the engineers pick out the descending brass sequences
accompanying the overlapping vocal scales adds real "oomph" missing in
most other recordings), and the end of the 2nd mvt ("Blicket auf" onwards)
is still breathtaking. The bits in between are thrilling albeit, as David
said, hard-driven.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
It was my "imprint" version, and I still love it, though I've added
Horenstein, Stokowski, Morris, and Tennstedt to the list.
Likewise, Matthew, and Horenstein is currently in the lead for me. The
vocal balance is a little backward, but it's a warm sound nonetheless,
with stunning dynamic range given the age circumstances under which it was
recorded. Where it scores over Solti is that Horenstein's pacing and
phrasing can't be faulted - quite miraculous considering the ridiculously
short time he and his forces had to prepare the piece.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-12-17 16:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gareth Williams
Likewise, Matthew, and Horenstein is currently in the lead for me. The
vocal balance is a little backward, but it's a warm sound nonetheless,
with stunning dynamic range given the age circumstances under which it was
recorded. Where it scores over Solti is that Horenstein's pacing and
phrasing can't be faulted - quite miraculous considering the ridiculously
short time he and his forces had to prepare the piece.
In many ways Horenstein was a "skin of the teeth" conductor who seems to do
the most amazing work in short periods of time, made crappy orchestras sound
better than they were (sometimes), etc.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Peter Greenstein
2004-12-17 18:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gareth Williams
One I dislike is the Solti. I don't even think it's bad. I just
don't think it's great.
it was probably the first recording to appear in excellent sound, and
for many people made an impression on that criterion alone.
It's still probably the best-sounding analogue recording. The (dubbed)
organ has rarely been bettered, neither has the beginning of the 1st mvt,
its end (the way the engineers pick out the descending brass sequences
accompanying the overlapping vocal scales adds real "oomph" missing in
most other recordings), and the end of the 2nd mvt ("Blicket auf" onwards)
is still breathtaking. The bits in between are thrilling albeit, as David
said, hard-driven.
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's and the sound of the opening was
truly impressive. It was one of those passages that could demonstrate what
stereo was really capable of. It sounded like it was recorded in the Mormon
Temple. For some reason the perspective seems to change for other parts of
the symphony. For sound it wasn't topped until Solti's. As a performance,
though it has its moments and some inspired soloists it can't compete with
later recordings.
--
peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/
Clovis Lark
2004-12-17 18:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Greenstein
Post by Gareth Williams
One I dislike is the Solti. I don't even think it's bad. I just
don't think it's great.
it was probably the first recording to appear in excellent sound, and
for many people made an impression on that criterion alone.
It's still probably the best-sounding analogue recording. The (dubbed)
organ has rarely been bettered, neither has the beginning of the 1st mvt,
its end (the way the engineers pick out the descending brass sequences
accompanying the overlapping vocal scales adds real "oomph" missing in
most other recordings), and the end of the 2nd mvt ("Blicket auf" onwards)
is still breathtaking. The bits in between are thrilling albeit, as David
said, hard-driven.
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's and the sound of the opening was
truly impressive. It was one of those passages that could demonstrate what
stereo was really capable of. It sounded like it was recorded in the Mormon
Temple. For some reason the perspective seems to change for other parts of
the symphony. For sound it wasn't topped until Solti's. As a performance,
though it has its moments and some inspired soloists it can't compete with
later recordings.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Post by Peter Greenstein
--
peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/
Gareth Williams
2004-12-17 19:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clovis Lark
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's [which] sounded like it was
recorded in the Mormon Temple.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Do you think PG used the word "tabernacle" within tent? ;o)
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Clovis Lark
2004-12-17 19:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by Clovis Lark
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's [which] sounded like it was
recorded in the Mormon Temple.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Do you think PG used the word "tabernacle" within tent? ;o)
Only secular muzak going on in the area is at the Tavernacle, a piano bar.
Yup, SLC is the of Muzak.
Post by Gareth Williams
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Peter Greenstein
2004-12-17 21:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clovis Lark
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by Clovis Lark
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's [which] sounded like it was
recorded in the Mormon Temple.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Do you think PG used the word "tabernacle" within tent? ;o)
Only secular muzak going on in the area is at the Tavernacle, a piano bar.
Yup, SLC is the of Muzak.
Hi Clovis,

As I said before, half the time PG doesn't know what he's talking about.
--
peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/
Clovis Lark
2004-12-17 22:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Greenstein
Post by Clovis Lark
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by Clovis Lark
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's [which] sounded like it was
recorded in the Mormon Temple.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Do you think PG used the word "tabernacle" within tent? ;o)
Only secular muzak going on in the area is at the Tavernacle, a piano bar.
Yup, SLC is the of Muzak.
Hi Clovis,
As I said before, half the time PG doesn't know what he's talking about.
Isn't it time we stopped PG from starting flame wars with PG? Cheerz
Post by Peter Greenstein
--
peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/
Tom Deacon
2004-12-18 00:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Greenstein
Post by Clovis Lark
Post by Gareth Williams
Post by Clovis Lark
The first stereo recording was Abravanel's [which] sounded like it was
recorded in the Mormon Temple.
Tabernacle, not temple.
Do you think PG used the word "tabernacle" within tent? ;o)
Only secular muzak going on in the area is at the Tavernacle, a piano bar.
Yup, SLC is the of Muzak.
Hi Clovis,
As I said before, half the time PG doesn't know what he's talking about.
And as for the other half.....

TD
David7Gable
2004-12-19 04:30:34 UTC
Permalink
It's [Solti's Mahler's 8th] still probably the best-sounding analogue
recording.

And it's not the sound that I find so underwhelming.

-david gable
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