Music recommendations?

Hah. You are "something of a beginner", but your likes cover three
centuries - and the Grosse Fugue. Nice.

I won't mention performers here. (Mostly).

Bach: the sonatas/partitas for solo violin; Well Tempered Klavier Bk
2. Piano first.

Beethoven: the sonatas for piano and cello; piano concerto #4.

Mozart: the string quintets.

Chopin: the nocturnes (I have to mention Weissenberg's, as your
_second_ set.

Janacek: the string quartets.

Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra, Boulez/NYPO or Bernstein/NYPO (you
won't miss the solos); piano concerto #2; string quartets - all of
them, because there's a 'language' progression.

If this all seems like bs to you, that's OK. YMMV.

bl

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-07 23:11:31 UTC

Apart from the obvious things (like the other five Brandenburg Concertos,
etc.),
I'd say one big nomination for adding to your list should be Schubert's
chamber
music, especially the C Major String Quintet, which should richly fulfill
your
preference "to see just what a composer and player can extract from a
few,
well-chosen voices."

Amongst more recent works in the same vein, I would suggest Zemlinsky's
Second String Quartet, and the quartets of Bartók and Schoenberg.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Michael Haslam

2004-01-07 23:41:50 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
Hi,
I've been listening to classical music for a few years, but I still
consider myself something of a beginner -- there's so much music out
there which I haven't heard! So I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way, based on my tastes.
BACH
"Christ lag in Todesbanden" cantata
Brandenburg concerto no. 5
"Little" Fugue, Stokowski transcription
Great Fugue ("Wir glaub' all an einen Gott"), Stokowski transcription
Bits and pieces of The Art of Fugue
Some of the violin/harpsichord sonatas
BEETHOVEN
"Kreutzer" sonata
"Waldstein" sonata
"Emperor" concerto
"Ghost", "Archduke", other piano trios
Am String Quartet (op. 132)
Grosse Fuge
Missa Solemnis
MOZART
Requiem
GRIEG
Am piano concerto
CHOPIN
Mostly everything, but especially the Ballades
SHOSTAKOVICH
Trio no. 2
A few words about my tastes, since it probably isn't clear from the
above list: In general I favor smaller-scale works to larger ones; I
tend not to like symphonies (for instance) very much. The issue for me
is that large-scale works seem to focus a lot less on the virtuosity
and limits of individual instruments; whereas I like to see just what
a composer and player can extract from a few, well-chosen voices. On
the other hand, I don't mind concertos with orchestras, because
there's still a solo instrument in the spotlight. There are some
exceptions (many are sitting on the list up there), but in general,
it's a rule worth following in recommending things to me.
Regarding what I'm already familiar with...it's really just bits and
pieces from everywhere. I'm generally at the mercy of my local
libraries (which are pretty good in that they have quite a bit of
stuff in terms of volume, but not always the particular things that
I'm looking for).

Try some Brahms chamber music, perhaps the G minor Piano Quartet, and
also try some Fauré eg the C minor Piano Quartet. If you like the Grieg
pf conc. you might like the Schumann pf conc. Try any Masses by Mozart
(eg the C minor) or Haydn (eg the "Nelson" Mass aka Mass In Time Of War
(or the same in Latin!). You could try some solo piano music by Debussy
eg the two books of Preludes, or Scriabin.

You could give Bartok a try; the Third Pf Conc. and the Concerto for
Orchestra.

MJHaslam

Jim Axtell

2004-01-09 06:13:37 UTC

Post by Michael Haslam
Try some Brahms chamber music, perhaps the G minor Piano Quartet, and
also try some Fauré eg the C minor Piano Quartet. If you like the Grieg
pf conc. you might like the Schumann pf conc. Try any Masses by Mozart
(eg the C minor) or Haydn (eg the "Nelson" Mass aka Mass In Time Of War
(or the same in Latin!). You could try some solo piano music by Debussy
eg the two books of Preludes, or Scriabin.
You could give Bartok a try; the Third Pf Conc. and the Concerto for
Orchestra.
MJHaslam

I thought the Nelson Mass (in D Minor) was different from Mass in Time of
War (C Major) "Missa in Tempore Belli". At least I think they're different
in the Hoboken catalog. Both excellent suggestions, of course!

Jim

Raymond Hall

2004-01-09 10:50:49 UTC

"Jim Axtell" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:lErLb.4344$***@attbi_s02...
|
| "Michael Haslam" <***@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
| news:1g77thy.bz8fjsocr0tmN%***@btopenworld.com...
| >
| > Try some Brahms chamber music, perhaps the G minor Piano Quartet, and
| > also try some Fauré eg the C minor Piano Quartet. If you like the Grieg
| > pf conc. you might like the Schumann pf conc. Try any Masses by Mozart
| > (eg the C minor) or Haydn (eg the "Nelson" Mass aka Mass In Time Of War
| > (or the same in Latin!). You could try some solo piano music by Debussy
| > eg the two books of Preludes, or Scriabin.
| >
| > You could give Bartok a try; the Third Pf Conc. and the Concerto for
| > Orchestra.
| >
| > MJHaslam
|
| I thought the Nelson Mass (in D Minor) was different from Mass in Time of
| War (C Major) "Missa in Tempore Belli". At least I think they're
different
| in the Hoboken catalog. Both excellent suggestions, of course!

They are indeed different.

As outlined in list below, and in chronological order from 1796 to 1802 :-

Missa Sancti Bernadi de Offida - Heiligmesse in Bflat maj

Missa in temore belli (Paukenmesse) in C maj
"Mass in Time of War"

Missa in angustiis (Nelson Mass) in D min

Missa (Theresienmesse) in Bflat maj
"Theresa Mass"

Missa (Schoepfungsmesse) in Bflat maj
"Creation Mass"

Missa (Harmoniemesse) in Bflat maj - Haydn's last major work (1802).

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Michael Haslam

2004-01-09 21:46:11 UTC

Post by Jim Axtell

Thanks for the correction. It's been a long time since I heard either;
my loss.

MJHaslam

Van Eyes

2004-01-08 01:51:11 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way....

Geminiani - Concerti Grossi Op. 5 after Corelli (Manze on harmonia
mundi)
Scarlatti - Piano Sonatas
Haydn - Piano Sonatas, Piano Trios
Schubert - "The Trout" , Complete Trios
Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique
Mendelssohn - String Quintets
Schumann - Piano Trios, Piano Quartet, Piano Quintet
Brahms - Piano Trios, Cello Sonatas
Franck - Symphony in D, Piano Quintet
Debussy - Preludes

Regards

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-08 02:08:06 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way....

[snip]
Scarlatti - Piano Sonatas

(Ahem!)

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Ian Pace

2004-01-08 02:10:58 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way....

[snip]
Scarlatti - Piano Sonatas

(Ahem!)

So a first recommendation would be the recordings of Scarlatti Harpischord
Sonatas by Andreas Staier and Pierre Hantai. Both superb performers bring
hallucinatory manicness, extraordinary passion, and sometimes the most
pained sadness to the music.

Best,
Ian

David Wake

2004-01-08 02:33:54 UTC

Post by Ian Pace

Post by Chenrezig
I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way....

[snip]
Scarlatti - Piano Sonatas

(Ahem!)

If we're going to be pedantic, shouldn't they be "Esercizi"?

David

Bob Lombard

2004-01-08 02:30:02 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
I'm wondering if you guys could throw
some recommendations my way....

[snip]
Scarlatti - Piano Sonatas

(Ahem!)

Yeah, but his patroness had pianos, and there is evidence (according
to people who might know) that he may have composed some of the
sonatas with them in mind. There is a CD out there of performances on
a replica from that period that work - sort of.

bl

Henry Krinkle

2004-01-08 02:58:36 UTC

Hello,

I'm going to write my recommendations underneath the pieces that I
believe compliment them.

Canatas 80, 147 (you might try getting a 4 CD set of the famous
cantatas: there are at least a few)

Post by Chenrezig
Brandenburg concerto no. 5

The other 5 Brandenburgs, the violin concertos, particularly the
E-major for one violin, and the double violin concerto

Post by Chenrezig
"Little" Fugue, Stokowski transcription
Great Fugue ("Wir glaub' all an einen Gott"), Stokowski transcription
Bits and pieces of The Art of Fugue

Well-Tempered Clavier

Post by Chenrezig
Some of the violin/harpsichord sonatas

The 3 sonatas for viol' and harpsichord. The flute/harpsichord
sonatas.
Also, try some Handel chamber music.

Post by Chenrezig
BEETHOVEN
"Kreutzer" sonata
"Waldstein" sonata

3 Piano Sonatas: "Appossionata," "Pathetique," "Hammerklavier"

Post by Chenrezig
"Emperor" concerto
"Ghost", "Archduke", other piano trios

Symphony #4 in B-flat (I know you're not into symphonies, but it goes
well with these and it has nice solo parts)

Post by Chenrezig
Am String Quartet (op. 132)

c# minor String Quartet (op. 131)

Post by Chenrezig
Grosse Fuge
Missa Solemnis
MOZART
Requiem

Mass in c-minor "Great"
Haydn's Mass in a Time of War and the Nelson Mass

Post by Chenrezig
GRIEG
Am piano concerto

Schumann's a-minor piano concerto (even better in my opinion)

Post by Chenrezig
CHOPIN
Mostly everything, but especially the Ballades

Any piano music by Brahms.
Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words for piano.

Post by Chenrezig
SHOSTAKOVICH
Trio no. 2

String Quartets #3 and #8

Post by Chenrezig
A few words about my tastes, since it probably isn't clear from the
above list: In general I favor smaller-scale works to larger ones; I
tend not to like symphonies (for instance) very much. The issue for me
is that large-scale works seem to focus a lot less on the virtuosity
and limits of individual instruments; whereas I like to see just what
a composer and player can extract from a few, well-chosen voices. On
the other hand, I don't mind concertos with orchestras, because
there's still a solo instrument in the spotlight. There are some
exceptions (many are sitting on the list up there), but in general,
it's a rule worth following in recommending things to me.
Regarding what I'm already familiar with...it's really just bits and
pieces from everywhere. I'm generally at the mercy of my local
libraries (which are pretty good in that they have quite a bit of
stuff in terms of volume, but not always the particular things that
I'm looking for).
Thanks in advance.

Happy listening. There's a wonderful world of music to explore.

Regards,
Henry

Mad Dan

2004-01-08 08:24:11 UTC

Post by Henry Krinkle
Hello,
I'm going to write my recommendations underneath the pieces that I
believe compliment them.

Post by Chenrezig
BEETHOVEN
"Kreutzer" sonata
"Waldstein" sonata

3 Piano Sonatas: "Appossionata," "Pathetique," "Hammerklavier"

And "Tempest" I'd say.

Also, I'd recommend Schubert's late sonatas (D958-960) - I don't know
how these are generally rated (still a "beginner" myself), but I love
them and I think they fit your prerequisites. I particularly like Radu
Lupu's B flat.

Of course, this all just what *I* like, so no guarantees offered!

jeffc

2004-01-10 19:49:12 UTC

Post by Henry Krinkle

Post by Chenrezig
BEETHOVEN
"Kreutzer" sonata
"Waldstein" sonata

3 Piano Sonatas: "Appossionata," "Pathetique," "Hammerklavier"

Moonlight before Hammerklavier! Before Kreutzer and Waldstein for that
matter.

Terry Simmons

2004-01-08 03:06:10 UTC

In article <***@posting.google.com>,
***@yahoo.com (Chenrezig) wrote:

<snip>> A few words about my tastes, since it probably isn't clear from the

Post by Chenrezig
above list: In general I favor smaller-scale works to larger ones; I
tend not to like symphonies (for instance) very much. The issue for me
is that large-scale works seem to focus a lot less on the virtuosity
and limits of individual instruments; whereas I like to see just what
a composer and player can extract from a few, well-chosen voices. On
the other hand, I don't mind concertos with orchestras, because
there's still a solo instrument in the spotlight. There are some
exceptions (many are sitting on the list up there), but in general,
it's a rule worth following in recommending things to me.
Regarding what I'm already familiar with...it's really just bits and
pieces from everywhere. I'm generally at the mercy of my local
libraries (which are pretty good in that they have quite a bit of
stuff in terms of volume, but not always the particular things that
I'm looking for).
Thanks in advance.

Vivaldi: The Four Seasons
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G
Smetana: Ma Vlast
Mozart: Horn Concertos
Mozart: Clarinet Concerto
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade
Bach: the other 5 Brandenburg Concertos
Borodin: In the Steppes of Central Asia
Ippolitov-Ivanov: Procession of the Sardar
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite

Let's know what you think of *them*, and we can have another go.

--
Cheers!

Terry

Sol L. Siegel

2004-01-08 05:23:58 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
I've been listening to classical music for a few years, but I still
consider myself something of a beginner -- there's so much
music out there which I haven't heard! So I'm wondering if you
guys could throwsome recommendations my way, based on
my tastes.

BACH: Magnificat; Keyboard concerto in D minor; Violin Concerti
(E, A minor and Double Concerto in D minor); Mass in B minor

BEETHOVEN: Op. 30 Violin Sonatas; "Tempest" and "Pastoral"
piano sonatas; Violin Concerto; Piano Concerto #4; String
Quartets Op. 59/2, 74, 95, 127 & 131; Bagatelles

MOZART: "Haydn" Quartets - and while we're on the subject,
you'll want some of Haydn's own quartets, starting with the
Op. 76 set.

SCHUMANN: Piano concerto; Carnaval; Fantasie in C; Piano
Quintet.

MENDELSSOHN: Octet; Piano Trio #1.

BRAHMS: String Sextets; Violin Sonatas; Piano Trios; German
Requiem.

SCHUBERT: String Quintet; String Quartets 12-15; Piano Trios;
Trout Quintet; Piano Sonatas D. 664, 894, 958, 959, 960;
Impromptus; Moments Musicaux; Fantasy in F minor, D. 940.

DVORAK: Piano Trios 3 & 4; Piano Quintet; String Quartets
Opp. 96 & 106.

SCHOENBERG: Verklaerte Nacht (for string quartet or string
orchestra)

VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis;
Mass in G minor.

RACHMANINOV: Vespers

PROKOFIEV: Violin Sonatas

SHOSTAKOVICH: String Quartets 3, 5, 7, & 8.

BARBER: Violin Concerto.

R. STRAUSS: Metamorphosen; Four Last Songs.

All this off the top of my head, for starters.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

jszostaksr

2004-01-09 18:19:06 UTC

Here's some of my favs that just might fit into your tastes-

R. STRAUSS: Four Last Songs (especially von Karajan/Janowitz)
D. SHOSTAKOVITCH: Piano Concerto #2 (Bernstein is my fav)
M. DURUFLÉ: Requiem
J. OFFENBACH: La Boutique Fantasque (I like Fiedler/Boston Pops)
GRANADOS - FALLA - ALBENIZ: Spanish music of the very best type (Reiner/CSO
is best example, i.e. RCD1-5404)
J.S. BACH: Brandenburg Concerti (I like #s 1, 3 & 5 the best)
O. RESPIGHI: Gli Ucelli (the Birds) and Ancient Airs and Dances

As you like the Beethoven 'Grosse Fugue' (his most personal music) I feel
the above compositions reflect that same 'personal' vein. And if you'd like
to try an opera, I'd suggest-

E. HUMPERDINCK: Hänsel und Gretel (Kurt Eichhorn recording on Eurodisc
610266-232 my fav)

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Dr.Matt

2004-01-09 18:26:14 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
As you like the Beethoven 'Grosse Fugue' (his most personal music) I feel
the above compositions reflect that same 'personal' vein. And if you'd like

Arnold Schoenberg: First Chamber Symphony. Chailly/Concertgebouw if
possible. Stuff which pushes the same borders as Grosse Fuge, only
further.

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Mazzolata

2004-01-09 19:09:57 UTC

Post by Dr.Matt
Stuff which pushes the same borders as Grosse Fuge, only
further.

Bartok quartets ?

Dr.Matt

2004-01-09 20:00:49 UTC

Post by Mazzolata

Post by Dr.Matt
Stuff which pushes the same borders as Grosse Fuge, only
further.

Bartok quartets ?

Nah, those push different boundaries altogether.

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-09 20:53:00 UTC

Post by Mazzolata

Stuff which pushes the same borders as Grosse Fuge, only further.

Bartok quartets ?

Nah, those push different boundaries altogether.

A friend of mine (who happens to be Czech) asked me last night for some
Schoenberg recommendations. I suggested the string quartets, either the La
Salle or the Arditti sets; "Verklärte Nacht"; and the Five Pieces for
Orchestra.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's Fault!

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-09 23:32:45 UTC

Ralph Vaughan Williams- Practically EVERYTHING.
Ravel- Practically EVERYTHING
Gerald Finzi- EVERYTHING
Malcomb Arnold- Always fun
Aaron Copland- Such a nice man, how I miss him; and so much great music.
Arnold Bax's- Winter Legends
Allwyn's- Harp Concerto
Korngold's- Almost EVERYTHING
Florent Schmitt's Psalm 47- Rattles the framework of any building with full
orchestra, organ, choir and soloist.
Howard Hanson- Symphony # 2, and select other works.
Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-10 02:44:32 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Ralph Vaughan Williams- Practically EVERYTHING.

Much as I love much of RVW's music, I would be selective for even a relative
newbie. Say, some of the symphonies (#5, "Antartica," maybe #6; I'm quite
fond of #4 but others might not be); the best-known of the orchestral works
(the Tallis and "Greensleeve" Fantasias, "The Lark Ascending," and maybe the
orchestral version of the "Folksong Suite"); and of course a few choral works
("Serenade to Music," "Dona Nobis Pacem," "Five Mystical Songs").

Post by Robert John Guttke
Aaron Copland- Such a nice man, how I miss him; and so much great music.

You knew him personally? Any interesting stories that can be told?

jszostaksr

2004-01-10 05:39:03 UTC

Robert: Yes...I forgot Copland...and I totally forgot about Bax. Am
particularly fond of 'November Woods', 'the Garden of Fand', 'Into the
Twilight', 'In the Faery Hills' and my favorite Bax piece 'Tintagel'.

Jon E.Szostak,Sr.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Ralph Vaughan Williams- Practically EVERYTHING.
Ravel- Practically EVERYTHING
Gerald Finzi- EVERYTHING
Malcomb Arnold- Always fun
Aaron Copland- Such a nice man, how I miss him; and so much great music.
Arnold Bax's- Winter Legends
Allwyn's- Harp Concerto
Korngold's- Almost EVERYTHING
Florent Schmitt's Psalm 47- Rattles the framework of any building with full
orchestra, organ, choir and soloist.
Howard Hanson- Symphony # 2, and select other works.
Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-10 23:34:54 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
Robert: Yes...I forgot Copland...and I totally forgot about Bax. Am
particularly fond of 'November Woods', 'the Garden of Fand', 'Into the
Twilight', 'In the Faery Hills' and my favorite Bax piece 'Tintagel'.
Jon E.Szostak,Sr.

Bax is a weird one. His symphonies I have TRIED AND TRIED to get into.
Nrgh. But Winter Legends, Symphonic Variations for piano and orchestra...
and especialy his 3rd piano sonata.... it seems whatever he did that was
anchored with the piano was marvelous. Must have had something to do with
rogering Harriet Cohen for so long.

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-10 23:58:30 UTC

Bax is a weird one. His symphonies I have TRIED AND TRIED to get into.
Nrgh. But Winter Legends, Symphonic Variations for piano and orchestra...

Oog! Now here, you have really got me baffled. Winter Legends is fine, but
the Symphonic Variations? Sorry! It is a dreay, aimless mess. The First
Symphony,
on the other hand, is instantly recognizable as a delight--if not quite a
masterpiece--
and certainly several of the other symphonies are more approachable than the
turgid Symphonic Variations.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 01:59:47 UTC

Bax is a weird one. His symphonies I have TRIED AND TRIED to get into.
Nrgh. But Winter Legends, Symphonic Variations for piano and orchestra...

Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes? I'm THRILLED you love the symphonies. I
wish I could. Meanwhile the other works that you attach such less than
charming criticisms I find marvelous and welcoming.

Sorry to baffle you.

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 03:20:09 UTC

Bax is a weird one. His symphonies I have TRIED AND TRIED to get into.
Nrgh. But Winter Legends, Symphonic Variations for piano and

orchestra...

Post by Jerry Kohl
Oog! Now here, you have really got me baffled. Winter Legends is fine, but
the Symphonic Variations? Sorry! It is a dreay, aimless mess. The First
Symphony,
on the other hand, is instantly recognizable as a delight--if not quite a
masterpiece--
and certainly several of the other symphonies are more approachable than

the

Post by Jerry Kohl
turgid Symphonic Variations.

Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I could, but it would not reflect very accurately the *degree* to which I
like or dislike different pieces. In a field of several thousands, if not
hundreds of thousands of compositions with which I probably have
at least a passing acquaintance, I don't find it very sensible to draw a
fine line down the middle and say that all works on one side I "like"
and all on the other side I "dislike". It also says something about
Winter Legends that I "like" it more than a piece that I dislike severely,
rather than slightly.

Post by Robert John Guttke
I'm THRILLED you love the symphonies.

I did not say anything of the sort. I said I find the First Symphony
a "delight--if not quite a masterpiece", and some of the others
"more approachable" than the Variations. By my characterization of
the Variatons as "turgid", I meant to indicate that my esteem for
those symphonies is higher than for the Variations, but not necessarily
in the ecstatic category.

Post by Robert John Guttke
I
wish I could. Meanwhile the other works that you attach such less than
charming criticisms I find marvelous and welcoming.

I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 03:34:43 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

But dammit (stomping foot)! I like it!

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 04:06:45 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

But dammit (stomping foot)! I like it!

Yeh, well (stamping feet and clenching fist), I don't!!

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 04:39:32 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

But dammit (stomping foot)! I like it!

Yeh, well (stamping feet and clenching fist), I don't!!

(thumb in each ear, wiggling fingers)
Your mother wears army boots and I hate Bach!
(insert bi-labial trill)

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 07:23:23 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

But dammit (stomping foot)! I like it!

Yeh, well (stamping feet and clenching fist), I don't!!

(thumb in each ear, wiggling fingers)
Your mother wears army boots and I hate Bach!
(insert bi-labial trill)

Well, that just about sums things up! Where do you stand on
William Walton's music? I think either one of his symphonies is
worth the whole cartload of Bax's, and his concertos are all spectacular

successes.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

jszostaksr

2004-01-11 13:51:57 UTC

To- Mssrs. Guttke & Kohl: All of the above gesticulations - whilst sitting
on the throne listening & humming to 'Jerry Hadley Sings Wagner"....

Walton?...do you mean Mr. 'Spitfire' and 'Henry V'?

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Post by Jerry Kohl
I only attached less-than-charming criticisms to one work: the
Symphonic Variations.

But dammit (stomping foot)! I like it!

Yeh, well (stamping feet and clenching fist), I don't!!

(thumb in each ear, wiggling fingers)
Your mother wears army boots and I hate Bach!
(insert bi-labial trill)

Well, that just about sums things up! Where do you stand on
William Walton's music? I think either one of his symphonies is
worth the whole cartload of Bax's, and his concertos are all spectacular
successes.
--
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 16:30:34 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
Walton?...do you mean Mr. 'Spitfire' and 'Henry V'?
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

I like Spitfire & Henry V!

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 21:22:50 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
Walton?...do you mean Mr. 'Spitfire' and 'Henry V'?
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

I like Spitfire & Henry V!

Good. How about the symphonies and concertos?

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 21:22:18 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
To- Mssrs. Guttke & Kohl: All of the above gesticulations - whilst sitting
on the throne listening & humming to 'Jerry Hadley Sings Wagner"....
Walton?...do you mean Mr. 'Spitfire' and 'Henry V'?

Oddly enough, there was a William Walton who wrote those film scores,
though my particular interest is in the William Walton who composed
two Symphonies and three Concertos--one each for violin, viola and cello.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 16:29:21 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
(insert bi-labial trill)

Well, that just about sums things up! Where do you stand on
William Walton's music?

In the middle!

I think either one of his symphonies is

Post by Jerry Kohl
worth the whole cartload of Bax's, and his concertos are all spectacular
successes.

I love Walton's film music ESPECIALLY Richard III, and I have a collection
of his smaller workers that I greatly enjoy from a Naxos collection; but I
fear I can not comment on his symphonies. I haven't heard any. Concertos?
What concertos?

Rob Lindauer

2004-01-11 16:57:37 UTC

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:29:21 GMT, Robert John Guttke

Post by Robert John Guttke
I love Walton's film music ESPECIALLY Richard III, and I have a collection
of his smaller workers that I greatly enjoy from a Naxos collection; but I
fear I can not comment on his symphonies. I haven't heard any.
Concertos?
What concertos?

What concertos? Holy moly! The viola concerto is my favorite, an amazing
work, and a good starting point. You can hear it and an analysis on the
BBC Radio3 site, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/discover.shtml.

Re the symphonies: I bought a copy of #1 (Previn with the London
Symphony, still available on CD) 35 years ago after reading an analysis in
Robert Simpson's symphonies book. Wow, what a work - driving, unrelieved
tension, profound - it grabbed me immediately. I find #2 to be much less
compelling, but YMMV.

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 17:25:34 UTC

Wow, what a work - driving, unrelieved

Post by Rob Lindauer
tension, profound - it grabbed me immediately.

Thanks for the recommendation, Rob, but "tension"? I mean, most of us are
taking drugs to counteract that. Hate to find it in my music.

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-11 18:40:51 UTC

Post by Rob Lindauer
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:29:21 GMT, Robert John Guttke

Post by Robert John Guttke
I love Walton's film music ESPECIALLY Richard III, and I have a
collection of his smaller workers that I greatly enjoy from a Naxos
collection; but I fear I can not comment on his symphonies. I haven't
heard any. Concertos? What concertos?

Recording recommendations? I find that I have only composer-led versions
of these -- for the Viola Concerto, Primrose with the Philarmonia on Pearl
and Riddle with the LSO on Dutton; Violin Concerto with Heifetz and the
Philharmonia. Don't forget the odd, brooding Cello Concerto, of which the
only one I have is Piatigorsky with Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra.

I never have gotten around to replacing my old Angel LP of the violin and
viola works with Menuhin, but I'd welcome it if others would recommend
alternatives. How's Nige, for example? For the Cello Concerto, I'd be
tempted to go with Wispelwey, but I wonder what others think.

Post by Rob Lindauer
Re the symphonies: I bought a copy of #1 (Previn with the London
Symphony, still available on CD) 35 years ago after reading an analysis
in Robert Simpson's symphonies book. Wow, what a work - driving,
unrelieved tension, profound - it grabbed me immediately. I find #2 to
be much less compelling, but YMMV.

Yes, Previn's first go-around with #1 used to be a "standard choice"; BMG
took their own sweet time getting to a reissue. I too find #2 much less
interesting; I note I have four of #1 (Harty/LSO on Dutton, Horenstein/RPO
on Intaglio, Otaka/BBCNO on BBC Music Mag, and Previn) and none of #2.

By the way, my database seems not to include the timing of the Harty and
that part of the collection is temporarily obscured (one of the problems of
owning 4,000+ CDs is that you sometimes have to store some away behind the
others); is there anybody who has it to hand who can tell me?

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 19:00:41 UTC

Don't forget the odd, brooding Cello Concerto, of which the

Post by MatthewÂ B. Tepper
only one I have is Piatigorsky with Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra.

You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements, typically
haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which is boisterous and
filled with joy.

His wife arranged for him to hear it played over the radio while he was in
the hospital.... the last music he ever heard.... he died the next morning.

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-11 20:25:44 UTC

"Robert John Guttke" <***@worldnet.att.net> appears to have
caused the following letters to be typed in news:t3hMb.16561$6y6.429915

Post by MatthewÂ B. Tepper
Don't forget the odd, brooding Cello Concerto, of which the
only one I have is Piatigorsky with Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra.

You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which is
boisterous and filled with joy.

Of course I do -- I've often remarked what a shame it is that the recording
on Lyrita has never been issued, and that the fine soloist would never be
allowed by his current label to re-record it, as it's too "heavyweight."

Post by Robert John Guttke
His wife arranged for him to hear it played over the radio while he was
in the hospital.... the last music he ever heard.... he died the next
morning.

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 22:48:06 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which is
boisterous and filled with joy.

Frog fritters. It shimmers, it touches the soul, and the wonderful
"plucking of strings" of the cello in the beginning of the third movement
reminds me so much of Korngold's
violin concerto's 3rd movement. Heavyweight? I don't understand that at
all. It has substance, yes, but a life affirming joy- ironic seeing that it
was written by a man who saw his own death drawing closer with each day.

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-12 04:39:22 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which is
boisterous and filled with joy.

Of course I do -- I've often remarked what a shame it is that the
recording on Lyrita has never been issued, and that the fine soloist
would never be allowed by his current label to re-record it, as it's
too "heavyweight."

Frog fritters. It shimmers, it touches the soul, and the wonderful
"plucking of strings" of the cello in the beginning of the third
movement reminds me so much of Korngold's violin concerto's 3rd
movement. Heavyweight? I don't understand that at all. It has
substance, yes, but a life affirming joy- ironic seeing that it was
written by a man who saw his own death drawing closer with each day.

Hey, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that Yo-Yo Ma, who made that
pioneering recording for Lyrita, is unlikely to be allowed to remake it for
his current label, Sony, because they are artistically bankrupt.

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 04:54:55 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which is
boisterous and filled with joy.

Of course I do -- I've often remarked what a shame it is that the
recording on Lyrita has never been issued, and that the fine soloist
would never be allowed by his current label to re-record it, as it's
too "heavyweight."

Frog fritters. It shimmers, it touches the soul, and the wonderful
"plucking of strings" of the cello in the beginning of the third
movement reminds me so much of Korngold's violin concerto's 3rd
movement. Heavyweight? I don't understand that at all. It has
substance, yes, but a life affirming joy- ironic seeing that it was
written by a man who saw his own death drawing closer with each day.

fault!

Ho-hum. What is available is good. Yo-Yo will live.

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-12 05:32:44 UTC

"Robert John Guttke" <***@worldnet.att.net> appears to have
caused the following letters to be typed in news:zMpMb.19447$6y6.488933

Post by Robert John Guttke
You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which
is boisterous and filled with joy.

Of course I do -- I've often remarked what a shame it is that the
recording on Lyrita has never been issued, and that the fine soloist
would never be allowed by his current label to re-record it, as it's
too "heavyweight."

Frog fritters. It shimmers, it touches the soul, and the wonderful
"plucking of strings" of the cello in the beginning of the third
movement reminds me so much of Korngold's violin concerto's 3rd
movement. Heavyweight? I don't understand that at all. It has
substance, yes, but a life affirming joy- ironic seeing that it was
written by a man who saw his own death drawing closer with each day.

Hey, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that Yo-Yo Ma, who made
that pioneering recording for Lyrita, is unlikely to be allowed to
remake it for his current label, Sony, because they are artistically
bankrupt.

Ho-hum. What is available is good. Yo-Yo will live.

Of course he'll *live*, but we'll be deprived of a Finzi remake from him,
as well as a recording of the Carter Concerto which was dedicated to him
(or at least premiered by him). And goodness knows what else. David
Hurwitz has already made some suggestions, such as the cello sonatas by
Fauré, Saint-Saëns, Magnard, Alkan, which Ma *could* have recorded instead
of of arrangements of Franck's Violin Sonata (another cello version of
which we need like a hole in the head) and Massenet's Méditation from
_Thaïs_: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6398 .

Dr.Matt

2004-01-12 11:55:12 UTC

Post by MatthewÂ B. Tepper
caused the following letters to be typed in news:zMpMb.19447$6y6.488933

Post by Robert John Guttke
You don't have Finzi's Cello Concerto? The first two movements,
typically haunting and pensive, and then the third movement which
is boisterous and filled with joy.

Of course I do -- I've often remarked what a shame it is that the
recording on Lyrita has never been issued, and that the fine soloist
would never be allowed by his current label to re-record it, as it's
too "heavyweight."

Frog fritters. It shimmers, it touches the soul, and the wonderful
"plucking of strings" of the cello in the beginning of the third
movement reminds me so much of Korngold's violin concerto's 3rd
movement. Heavyweight? I don't understand that at all. It has
substance, yes, but a life affirming joy- ironic seeing that it was
written by a man who saw his own death drawing closer with each day.

Hey, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that Yo-Yo Ma, who made
that pioneering recording for Lyrita, is unlikely to be allowed to
remake it for his current label, Sony, because they are artistically
bankrupt.

Ho-hum. What is available is good. Yo-Yo will live.

Of course he'll *live*, but we'll be deprived of a Finzi remake from him,
as well as a recording of the Carter Concerto which was dedicated to him
(or at least premiered by him).

Maybe somebody rich provide a way for Kotova to record these?
I'd like to meet her some day, too, as long as I'm fantasizing :)
Oh, and while you're at it, throw in a commission for me to write her
a concerto, too.

Post by MatthewÂ B. Tepper
And goodness knows what else. David
Hurwitz has already made some suggestions, such as the cello sonatas by
Fauré, Saint-Saëns, Magnard, Alkan, which Ma *could* have recorded instead
of of arrangements of Franck's Violin Sonata (another cello version of
which we need like a hole in the head) and Massenet's Méditation from
_Thaïs_: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6398 .
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 21:24:54 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
(insert bi-labial trill)

Well, that just about sums things up! Where do you stand on
William Walton's music?

In the middle!
I think either one of his symphonies is

Post by Jerry Kohl
worth the whole cartload of Bax's, and his concertos are all spectacular
successes.

Shame!

Post by Robert John Guttke
Concertos?
What concertos?

I can tell you're not a violist! His Viola Concerto is probably *the number
one* example of the genre. His Violin Concerto and Cello Concerto are
nothing to sneeze at, either!

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 22:55:30 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I can tell you're not a violist!

Nope, photographer.

His Viola Concerto is probably *the number

Post by Jerry Kohl
one* example of the genre.

Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh, never
mind....

His Violin Concerto and Cello Concerto are

Post by Jerry Kohl
nothing to sneeze at, either!

Can't say anything about them, especially since I don't have a cold.

But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto. Korngold's
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for violin....
stuff like that there, ya know?

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-12 00:50:54 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I can tell you're not a violist!

Nope, photographer.
His Viola Concerto is probably *the number

Post by Jerry Kohl
one* example of the genre.

Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh, never
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

Post by Robert John Guttke
But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto. Korngold's
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for violin....
stuff like that there, ya know?

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them), but all the rest I am familiar with, supposing you mean
The Lark Ascending for the RVW concerto. The Barber, especially, is not
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 01:46:59 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh, never
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

"Suite for Viola and Orchestra (1923)", dedicated to Lionel Tertis, as
soloist who also premiered "Flos Campi".
(Ha!)

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them),

Rozsa's violin concerto was interpolated to score Billy Wilder's film "The
Private Lives of Sherlock Holmes", Korngold's violin concerto includes no
less than four themes from his film scores (ending with the remarkably
energetic "Prince & the Pauper), and Finzi's Introit for violin & small
orchestra was the slow movement of a violin concerto that Finzi was never
happy with.

but all the rest I am familiar with, supposing you mean

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Lark Ascending for the RVW concerto.

No, Vaughan Williams "Concerto Accademico" for violin and string orchestra.
(double ha!)

The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto... for Walton to beat this out,
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

Post by Jerry Kohl
--
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Rob Lindauer

2004-01-12 02:30:10 UTC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:46:59 GMT, Robert John Guttke

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto... for Walton to beat this out,
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

I'm getting a little lost in the chain of references -- not quite sure if
we ended up the Barber to Walton's violin or viola concerto. Personally,
I like Walton's viola cto much more than I do his violin cto. The fact
that I'm a (lousy amateur) violist has nothing to do with that
preference. Really.

But I digress: If you do choose to give the Walton viola cto a hearing,
I'd be interested in hearing what you think of it.

Regards, RL

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Rob Lindauer

2004-01-12 02:33:33 UTC

not quite sure if we ended up the Barber to Walton's violin or viola
concerto.

Oops, finger check. Make that "...not quite sure if we ended up COMPARING
the Barber to Walton's violin or viola concerto..."

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 03:48:55 UTC

Post by Rob Lindauer
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:46:59 GMT, Robert John Guttke

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto... for Walton to beat this out,
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

I'm getting a little lost in the chain of references -- not quite sure if
we ended up the Barber to Walton's violin or viola concerto. Personally,
I like Walton's viola cto much more than I do his violin cto. The fact
that I'm a (lousy amateur) violist has nothing to do with that
preference. Really.
But I digress: If you do choose to give the Walton viola cto a hearing,
I'd be interested in hearing what you think of it.
Regards, RL

I was going on about the Barber violin concerto... haven't a clue if he did
one for viola... don't know when I can get around to Walton's anything
right now.... hate to invest in music when the budget is tight and the music
unheard.

Raymond Hall

2004-01-12 04:21:15 UTC

"Robert John Guttke" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:HOoMb.5332$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
|
| I was going on about the Barber violin concerto... haven't a clue if he
did
| one for viola... don't know when I can get around to Walton's anything
| right now.... hate to invest in music when the budget is tight and the
music
| unheard.

The cello, violin and viola concertos by Walton are well worth keeping in
mind. Also, and just my opinion, the 2nd symphony is ultimately much more
rewarding than the 1st. Szell does this symphony very well with the
Cleveland Orch on Sony (along with a cracking Partita), although all the
concertos and the 2nd symphony are well covered by Naxos on two CDs,
especially if looking to get acquainted with some very good music.

The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too sweet
and cloying after repeated hearings. IMO. Walton is just that bit tougher.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 04:53:36 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too sweet
and cloying after repeated hearings.

Those are fightin' words, buddy! I like it! Call me sweet and cloying!
(after repeated hearings)

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-12 05:04:36 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too sweet
and cloying after repeated hearings.

Those are fightin' words, buddy! I like it! Call me sweet and cloying!
(after repeated hearings)

Yes, but you've already admitted you haven't yet heard the Walton. I predict
that you will eat your words when you do. At the same time, you will still
be allowed to like the Barber, even though you will like the Walton better.
I promise. ;-)

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 05:16:06 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too sweet
and cloying after repeated hearings.

Those are fightin' words, buddy! I like it! Call me sweet and cloying!
(after repeated hearings)

(nose up in the air)
I'm on a diet. Never eat my own words.

Wait.

I'll still be ALLOWED to like the Barber?

(I gotta save this stuff, could use it
to fertilize the lawn this Spring)

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-12 06:56:24 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too

sweet

Post by Raymond Hall
and cloying after repeated hearings.

Those are fightin' words, buddy! I like it! Call me sweet and

cloying!

Post by Robert John Guttke
(after repeated hearings)

Yes, but you've already admitted you haven't yet heard the Walton. I

predict

Post by Jerry Kohl
that you will eat your words when you do. At the same time, you will still
be allowed to like the Barber, even though you will like the Walton

better.

Post by Jerry Kohl
I promise. ;-)

(nose up in the air)
I'm on a diet. Never eat my own words.
Wait.
I'll still be ALLOWED to like the Barber?
(I gotta save this stuff, could use it
to fertilize the lawn this Spring)

Look, bub. All I'm saying is that, even though you will go right on liking
what you like now, you are going to discover something EVEN BETTER.
That's no threat! It's a promise ;-)

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 16:41:44 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
The Barber violin concerto is very nice, but tends to get a bit too

sweet

Post by Raymond Hall
and cloying after repeated hearings.

Those are fightin' words, buddy! I like it! Call me sweet and

cloying!

Post by Robert John Guttke
(after repeated hearings)

Yes, but you've already admitted you haven't yet heard the Walton. I

predict

Post by Jerry Kohl
that you will eat your words when you do. At the same time, you will still
be allowed to like the Barber, even though you will like the Walton

better.

Post by Jerry Kohl
I promise. ;-)

(nose up in the air)
I'm on a diet. Never eat my own words.
Wait.
I'll still be ALLOWED to like the Barber?
(I gotta save this stuff, could use it
to fertilize the lawn this Spring)

Look, bub. All I'm saying is that, even though you will go right on liking
what you like now, you are going to discover something EVEN BETTER.
That's no threat! It's a promise ;-)

Awwww, fudge. Can I still hate you, though?

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-12 04:47:28 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh, never
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

"Suite for Viola and Orchestra (1923)", dedicated to Lionel Tertis, as
soloist who also premiered "Flos Campi".
(Ha!)

Un-hah! A suite is possibly as far as you can possibly get from a concerto,
without actually being an un-concerto.

Post by Robert John Guttke
But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto. Korngold's
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for

violin....

Post by Robert John Guttke
stuff like that there, ya know?

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them),

None of this sounds like anything to inspire confidence in the works in
question.

Post by Robert John Guttke
but all the rest I am familiar with, supposing you mean

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Lark Ascending for the RVW concerto.

No, Vaughan Williams "Concerto Accademico" for violin and string orchestra.
(double ha!)

Oh, yes, of course! I remember it now. It's even less a competitor for the
Walton than the Barber is. Lark Ascending is much the better composition
(IMHO, of course).

Post by Robert John Guttke
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto...

Uh-huh, and formally very flawed. That is to say, it has some very lovely
moments, strung together in a sometimes very unsatisfactory way.

Post by Robert John Guttke
for Walton to beat this out,
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

The Walton does not need this to "beat out" the Barber, no. Whether
it is "pure orgasmic" or not, I leave to your judgment. The Walton is a
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well. The Barber is less
powerful, and certainly competent in the orchestration department,
but it is not on the same level at all.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 05:11:25 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh, never
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

"Suite for Viola and Orchestra (1923)", dedicated to Lionel Tertis, as
soloist who also premiered "Flos Campi".
(Ha!)

Un-hah! A suite is possibly as far as you can possibly get from a concerto,
without actually being an un-concerto.

I hate you.

Post by Robert John Guttke
But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto.

Korngold's

Post by Robert John Guttke
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for

violin....

Post by Robert John Guttke
stuff like that there, ya know?

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them),

None of this sounds like anything to inspire confidence in the works in
question.

Pity, that. Where my words fail,
your ears remain virgin to some
beautiful music.....

for the RVW concerto.

Post by Robert John Guttke
No, Vaughan Williams "Concerto Accademico" for violin and string orchestra.
(double ha!)

Oh, yes, of course! I remember it now. It's even less a competitor for the
Walton than the Barber is.

There's a contest?

Lark Ascending is much the better composition

Post by Jerry Kohl
(IMHO, of course).

Two DIFFERENT works. Two different emotional influences and results.
Don't you get a sense at all that you are comparing apples and oranges? Or
are we going to argue about fruit now, too?

Post by Robert John Guttke
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto...

Uh-huh, and formally very flawed.

How's the air up there on
Mount Olympus? Jeepers!!!

That is to say, it has some very lovely

Post by Jerry Kohl
moments, strung together in a sometimes very unsatisfactory way.

Poodle Puppies!!!!!!

eat this out,

Post by Robert John Guttke
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

The Walton does not need this to "beat out" the Barber, no. Whether
it is "pure orgasmic" or not, I leave to your judgment.

Really? Why do I suddenly feel
like I just got a good deal on a
used car?

The Walton is a

Post by Jerry Kohl
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well.

Sounds a tad snooty & stodgy.

The Barber is less

Post by Jerry Kohl
powerful, and certainly competent in the orchestration department,
but it is not on the same level at all.

Competent? Gee whiz.
I guess I am going to have
to stop enjoying and being
moved by this music ASAP.

Wanna head out and play a few hoops now? In a formal and competent and
confident manner, of course.

(Don't know about you,
but I'm pooped)

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-12 07:10:18 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh,

never

Post by Robert John Guttke
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

"Suite for Viola and Orchestra (1923)", dedicated to Lionel Tertis, as
soloist who also premiered "Flos Campi".
(Ha!)

Un-hah! A suite is possibly as far as you can possibly get from a

concerto,

Post by Jerry Kohl
without actually being an un-concerto.

I hate you.

Your problem, not mine.

Post by Robert John Guttke
But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto.

Korngold's

Post by Robert John Guttke
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for

violin....

Post by Robert John Guttke
stuff like that there, ya know?

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them),

Rozsa's violin concerto was interpolated to score Billy Wilder's film

"The

Post by Robert John Guttke
Private Lives of Sherlock Holmes", Korngold's violin concerto includes

Post by Robert John Guttke
less than four themes from his film scores (ending with the remarkably
energetic "Prince & the Pauper), and Finzi's Introit for violin & small
orchestra was the slow movement of a violin concerto that Finzi was

never

Post by Robert John Guttke
happy with.

None of this sounds like anything to inspire confidence in the works in
question.

Pity, that. Where my words fail,
your ears remain virgin to some
beautiful music.....

My remarks were directed at your words, not to music I have not heard.
Try to learn to be more effective in your advocacy to readers of unknown
biases.

Post by jeffc
for the RVW concerto.

Post by Robert John Guttke
No, Vaughan Williams "Concerto Accademico" for violin and string

orchestra.

Post by Robert John Guttke
(double ha!)

Oh, yes, of course! I remember it now. It's even less a competitor for the
Walton than the Barber is.

There's a contest?

Only the one you set up: Barber and RVW against the Walton, which you
haven't heard yet. Very confident, you are, under those circumstances.

Post by jeffc
Lark Ascending is much the better composition

Post by Jerry Kohl
(IMHO, of course).

Two DIFFERENT works. Two different emotional influences and results.
Don't you get a sense at all that you are comparing apples and oranges? Or
are we going to argue about fruit now, too?

Nope. Lark Ascending has the more heartfelt, true "line" of passion running
through it. The Concerto Accademico has, as its title confesses, a scholastic,
formalistic character--too self-conscious for a composer of RVW's temperament.

Post by Robert John Guttke
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto...

Uh-huh, and formally very flawed.

How's the air up there on
Mount Olympus? Jeepers!!!

Wouldn't know. Let me restate that, for your benefit (especially as you
haven't yet heard the Walton): The Walton is an even more lovely and
even more movng concerto; in addition, it does not have the formal
flaws of the Barber. Better?

Post by Jerry Kohl
That is to say, it has some very lovely
moments, strung together in a sometimes very unsatisfactory way.

Poodle Puppies!!!!!!

Same to you, buster, only you're wrong, and I'm right. You'll see.

Post by jeffc
eat this out,

Post by Robert John Guttke
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

The Walton does not need this to "beat out" the Barber, no. Whether
it is "pure orgasmic" or not, I leave to your judgment.

Really? Why do I suddenly feel
like I just got a good deal on a
used car?

You want orgasms from a car? Kinky!

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Walton is a
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well.

Sounds a tad snooty & stodgy.

Does it?? I thought you said you hadn't heard it yet.

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Barber is less
powerful, and certainly competent in the orchestration department,
but it is not on the same level at all.

Competent? Gee whiz.
I guess I am going to have
to stop enjoying and being
moved by this music ASAP.

I'd suggest you give the Walton a listen, yes. Geez! Didn't I make that clear
before, already?

Post by jeffc
Wanna head out and play a few hoops now? In a formal and competent and
confident manner, of course.

Do you understand the sense of the word "formal" that I meant? (No, obviously
you did not.)

Post by jeffc
(Don't know about you,
but I'm pooped)

I'm tempted to make a remark here, but I will stifle the urge.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Dr.Matt

2004-01-12 12:02:27 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Oh..... I dunno about that..... Vaughan Williams did some, um, oh,

never

Post by Robert John Guttke
mind....

Viola Concertos??? If so, this is the first *I've* heard of it!

"Suite for Viola and Orchestra (1923)", dedicated to Lionel Tertis, as
soloist who also premiered "Flos Campi".
(Ha!)

Un-hah! A suite is possibly as far as you can possibly get from a

concerto,

Post by Jerry Kohl
without actually being an un-concerto.

I hate you.

Your problem, not mine.

Post by Robert John Guttke
But I like VW's violin concerto. Rozsa's violin concerto.

Korngold's

Post by Robert John Guttke
violin concerto. Barber's violin concerto. Finzi's Introit for

violin....

Post by Robert John Guttke
stuff like that there, ya know?

I don't know the Rozsa, Korngold or Finzi (though I know other works
by each of them),

Rozsa's violin concerto was interpolated to score Billy Wilder's film

"The

Post by Robert John Guttke
Private Lives of Sherlock Holmes", Korngold's violin concerto includes

never

Post by Robert John Guttke
happy with.

None of this sounds like anything to inspire confidence in the works in
question.

Pity, that. Where my words fail,
your ears remain virgin to some
beautiful music.....

My remarks were directed at your words, not to music I have not heard.
Try to learn to be more effective in your advocacy to readers of unknown
biases.

Post by jeffc
for the RVW concerto.

Post by Robert John Guttke
No, Vaughan Williams "Concerto Accademico" for violin and string

orchestra.

Post by Robert John Guttke
(double ha!)

Oh, yes, of course! I remember it now. It's even less a competitor for the
Walton than the Barber is.

There's a contest?

Only the one you set up: Barber and RVW against the Walton, which you
haven't heard yet. Very confident, you are, under those circumstances.

Post by jeffc
Lark Ascending is much the better composition

Post by Jerry Kohl
(IMHO, of course).

Two DIFFERENT works. Two different emotional influences and results.
Don't you get a sense at all that you are comparing apples and oranges? Or
are we going to argue about fruit now, too?

Post by Robert John Guttke
The Barber, especially, is not

Post by Jerry Kohl
in the same league as the Walton, IMHO.

The Barber is a lovely and moving concerto...

Uh-huh, and formally very flawed.

How's the air up there on
Mount Olympus? Jeepers!!!

Post by Jerry Kohl
That is to say, it has some very lovely
moments, strung together in a sometimes very unsatisfactory way.

Poodle Puppies!!!!!!

Same to you, buster, only you're wrong, and I'm right. You'll see.

Post by jeffc
eat this out,

Post by Robert John Guttke
the Walton must have to be pure orgasmic.
(you can ha! me here if you wish)

The Walton does not need this to "beat out" the Barber, no. Whether
it is "pure orgasmic" or not, I leave to your judgment.

Really? Why do I suddenly feel
like I just got a good deal on a
used car?

You want orgasms from a car? Kinky!

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Walton is a
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well.

Sounds a tad snooty & stodgy.

Does it?? I thought you said you hadn't heard it yet.

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Barber is less
powerful, and certainly competent in the orchestration department,
but it is not on the same level at all.

Competent? Gee whiz.
I guess I am going to have
to stop enjoying and being
moved by this music ASAP.

I'd suggest you give the Walton a listen, yes. Geez! Didn't I make that clear
before, already?

Post by jeffc
Wanna head out and play a few hoops now? In a formal and competent and
confident manner, of course.

Do you understand the sense of the word "formal" that I meant? (No, obviously
you did not.)

Post by jeffc
(Don't know about you,
but I'm pooped)

I'm tempted to make a remark here, but I will stifle the urge.
--
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Spring can't be far behind. The rites of male bonding are in full swing.

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 16:45:59 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Pity, that. Where my words fail,
your ears remain virgin to some
beautiful music.....

My remarks were directed at your words, not to music I have not heard.
Try to learn to be more effective in your advocacy to readers of unknown
biases.

Oooooooooooo! Ooooooooooo! I'm going use the wooden spoon on you, just you
wait!!!!!!

Post by Robert John Guttke
Poodle Puppies!!!!!!

Same to you, buster, only you're wrong, and I'm right. You'll see.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Post by Robert John Guttke
Really? Why do I suddenly feel
like I just got a good deal on a
used car?

You want orgasms from a car? Kinky!

AAAAARRRRRRHHHHHH!!!

Post by Jerry Kohl
The Walton is a
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well.

Sounds a tad snooty & stodgy.

Does it?? I thought you said you hadn't heard it yet.

YOU must learn to CHOOSE your WORDS better when describing a musical
work..................... (ha)!

Post by Robert John Guttke
Competent? Gee whiz.
I guess I am going to have
to stop enjoying and being
moved by this music ASAP.

I'd suggest you give the Walton a listen, yes. Geez! Didn't I make that clear
before, already?

I want to hurt you.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Wanna head out and play a few hoops now? In a formal and competent and
confident manner, of course.

Do you understand the sense of the word "formal" that I meant? (No, obviously
you did not.)

Post by Robert John Guttke
(Don't know about you,
but I'm pooped)

I'm tempted to make a remark here, but I will stifle the urge.

I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark Stratford

2004-01-12 12:04:00 UTC

The Walton [Violin Concerto] is a
gorgeous and powerful composition in the Romantic tradition, and
shows a real mastery of orchestration as well. The Barber is less
powerful, and certainly competent in the orchestration department,
but it is not on the same level at all.

The Walton has one of his most striking ever bits of orchestration:
that Napolitan-style tune which appears twice in the 2nd movement.
Also check out the return of orch after the 1st movement cadenza.
Words fail me

IMO the pyrotechniques of the Walton (and don't forget this was
written for Heifetz) are assimilated much better into the piece than
in the Barber or Korngold concertos.

Apparently David Oistrakh once played the Walton in Moscow. Hopefully
one day a tape or release of it will surface..! Meanwhile, besides
Heifetz the other great performances to listen to are: Ida Haendel &
Berglund, Nigel Kennedy & Previn, Menuhin and Walton and (I always
think the best) Kyung Wha Chung & Previn.

mark stratford

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-12 16:48:24 UTC

Post by Mark Stratford

that Napolitan-style tune which appears twice in the 2nd movement.
Also check out the return of orch after the 1st movement cadenza.
Words fail me
IMO the pyrotechniques of the Walton (and don't forget this was
written for Heifetz) are assimilated much better into the piece than
in the Barber or Korngold concertos.
Apparently David Oistrakh once played the Walton in Moscow. Hopefully
one day a tape or release of it will surface..! Meanwhile, besides
Heifetz the other great performances to listen to are: Ida Haendel &
Berglund, Nigel Kennedy & Previn, Menuhin and Walton and (I always
think the best) Kyung Wha Chung & Previn.

Robert ENJOYS the Korngold and the Barber.... thus lowering the bar on
those doesn't REALLY encourage one to seek the Walton..... allow the Walton
to stand on its own with poo-pooing others.

Or I'll use the wooden spoon on you, too.

Dr.Matt

2004-01-12 11:56:56 UTC

Last I heard, the Bartok and Hindemith viola concertos were considered
more core repertoire than Vaughn Williams, followed by Harold In Italy of
Berlioz which you might consider concertoid.

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Dr.Matt

2004-01-11 03:36:16 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 04:07:26 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

Down, boy!

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 04:37:43 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

X O X O X O

Nightingale

2004-01-11 05:51:09 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

LOL!

--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and
serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely
to be imployed to that ende.

Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.

-William Byrd

Snarly

2004-01-11 08:23:47 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

Actually, one's sexual orientation goes much deeper than just being a
preference--but I'm sure you already knew this. :^X

Snarly

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 16:32:24 UTC

Post by Snarly

Post by Dr.Matt
I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)

Actually, one's sexual orientation goes much deeper than just being a
preference--but I'm sure you already knew this. :^X

Sexual wha- ?

jszostaksr

2004-01-11 13:54:53 UTC

I'm an XYZ man myself...! Sigh!!!!!!

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I'm an XY and I prefer XX's :)
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in canon!
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/

Matthew B. Tepper

2004-01-11 18:40:51 UTC

Post by jszostaksr
I'm an XYZ man myself...! Sigh!!!!!!

You mean you want the French to ask the US government for bribes?

Nightingale

2004-01-11 05:49:58 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Can't you just say that you really like XX more than YY, instead of
attaching negative attributes?

I prefer XY ;-)

--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and
serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely
to be imployed to that ende.

Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.

-William Byrd

Rodger Whitlock

2004-01-10 18:38:03 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!

I have to disagree. Tveitt's suites are full of extremely
beautiful sounds, but are very episodic, with no sense of a long
line. He never realizes the potential of his openings, iow.

I'm very happy that Naxos is making the music of the Tveitts and
Klamis of the world available easily and cheaply, but sometimes
you listen and realize why these composers are also-rans.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-10 23:40:16 UTC

Post by Rodger Whitlock

Post by Robert John Guttke
Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!

I have to disagree. Tveitt's suites are full of extremely
beautiful sounds, but are very episodic, with no sense of a long
line. He never realizes the potential of his openings, iow.

Tveitt is INCREDIBLE. I have NEVER EVER heard a composer like him before.
Absolutely unique. So I disagree with your portrayal of his work. His
piano concertos, the Hardanger Fiddle Concerto # 2, Prillar (reconstructed-
as so much of his work sadly has to be today- from ripped up shreds of the
score found in a paper sack in a barn), the delightful Hardanger Tunes....
all wonderful and exciting music. No one like him. There is a harp
concerto on disc somewhere, but I can't get my hands on it..... maybe
someday Naxos will add that to their growing collection of the little that
has been left to us after the great fire which destroyed all but 90 of his
compositions....

Raymond Hall

2004-01-10 23:49:49 UTC

"Robert John Guttke" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:A30Mb.988$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
|
| "Rodger Whitlock" <***@atlanticcoast.invalid> wrote in message
| news:***@news.newsguy.com...
| > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:32:45 GMT, Robert John Guttke wrote:
| >
| > > Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!
| >
| > I have to disagree. Tveitt's suites are full of extremely
| > beautiful sounds, but are very episodic, with no sense of a long
| > line. He never realizes the potential of his openings, iow.
| >
|
| Tveitt is INCREDIBLE. I have NEVER EVER heard a composer like him before.
| Absolutely unique. So I disagree with your portrayal of his work. His
| piano concertos, the Hardanger Fiddle Concerto # 2, Prillar
(reconstructed-
| as so much of his work sadly has to be today- from ripped up shreds of the
| score found in a paper sack in a barn), the delightful Hardanger Tunes....
| all wonderful and exciting music. No one like him. There is a harp
| concerto on disc somewhere, but I can't get my hands on it..... maybe
| someday Naxos will add that to their growing collection of the little that
| has been left to us after the great fire which destroyed all but 90 of his
| compositions....

Agree completely. A remarkable composer.
When I listen to Tveitt, it is almost as if coming to the walnut left
deliberately on top of a Walnut Whip.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Jaakko Mäntyjärvi

2004-01-11 11:59:51 UTC

|
| Tveitt is INCREDIBLE. (snip)
Agree completely. A remarkable composer.
When I listen to Tveitt, it is almost as if coming to the walnut left
deliberately on top of a Walnut Whip.

What... dry, wrinkled, and a completely superfluous decoration on
something else that is delicious in its own right? :-)

--
Regards,
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
Helsinki, Finland

To reply by e-mail, remove EQUALS.

"Nil significat nisi oscillat. Du vap. Du vap. Du vap."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 16:32:57 UTC

What... dry, wrinkled, and a completely superfluous decoration on
something else that is delicious in its own right? :-)

No.

Raymond Hall

2004-01-11 19:30:03 UTC

|
| Tveitt is INCREDIBLE. (snip)
Agree completely. A remarkable composer.
When I listen to Tveitt, it is almost as if coming to the walnut left
deliberately on top of a Walnut Whip.

| What... dry, wrinkled, and a completely superfluous decoration on
| something else that is delicious in its own right? :-)

But I am a walnut freak.
<g>

Actually, Walnut Whips were a UK thing, and haven't seen them in Australia.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 00:06:31 UTC

Post by Rodger Whitlock

Post by Robert John Guttke
Geir Tveitt- Wow Wow Wow... what a discovery there!

I have to disagree. Tveitt's suites are full of extremely
beautiful sounds, but are very episodic, with no sense of a long
line. He never realizes the potential of his openings, iow.

Tveitt is INCREDIBLE. I have NEVER EVER heard a composer like him before.
Absolutely unique. So I disagree with your portrayal of his work.

Actually, nothing you have said is in conflict with Rodger's statement. A
composer's music can quite plausibly be both incredible and unique
without in any way realizing the potential of its openings. In fact, I would
go so far as to say that when you disagree with Rodger's portrayal of
Tveitt's suites as "full of extremely beautiful sounds", you may well be
contradicting your own characterization of them as "incredible" and
"unique".

I cannot for my part express an opinion of these works, since I have not
heard them (in fact, I had not heard the composer's very name until this
thread), but disagreement of this sort does tend to pique my curiosity.
Perhaps I should have a listen.

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 02:22:34 UTC

Post by Jerry Kohl
I cannot for my part express an opinion of these works, since I have not
heard them (in fact, I had not heard the composer's very name until this
thread), but disagreement of this sort does tend to pique my curiosity.
Perhaps I should have a listen.

Tveitt is an exciting discovery, thus I can only hope you can find the same
joy in his beautiful music. I have NEVER heard orchestrations like his.
"Strong Norwegian rhythms and ostinato patterns complement a French
flavor..."

His Piano Concerto # 1 is charming and an easy listen.
Piano Concerto # 5 explodes on you, then trills of the piano follows....
"lightening flashes, a hurricane is unleashed..." more explosions then
sweetness- always the orchestra is just as fascinating and unexpected as the
piano part. Piano Concerto #4 "Aurora Borealis"- can you imagine the SOUND
of light? "glittering music, piercing pyrotechnics kindled by piano &
orchestra."
Concerto No. 2 for Hardanger Fiddle is just a riot of happiness- each
movement based on a fjord in Norway. And in his Hardanger Tunes, Suite 2:
"Do you hear the song in the waterfall's roar?" You actually HEAR the
waterfall as well as the song. Astonishing.

Today musicologists continue to piece together what they can of Tveitt's
work, from slips of burnt paper to old recordings... and more power to them.
It is tragic to think what went up in smoke that night in 1970- four/fifths
of a musical lifetime stored in wooden cupboards all gone. But I am so GLAD
for what remains.

Tveitt is a glorious and a fresh sound for anyone desiring something NEW and
DIFFERENT. Naxos has done a splendid job in returning Geirr Tveitt's
unabashed JOY to the world.

I like him.

Alot.

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 03:27:30 UTC

Tveitt is an exciting discovery, thus I can only hope you can find the same
joy in his beautiful music.

[snip passionate advocacy]

OK, OK! You've convinced me! I *must* have a listen, then.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Piano Concerto #4 "Aurora Borealis"- can you imagine the SOUND
of light?

Oh yes, very easily. I have not often seen the Northern Lights, though I
live at a latitude where they are often visible. However, I have frequently
used them as a visual metaphor for many kinds and pieces of music, for
example Richard Hite's "sacred gongs" concerts.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Concerto No. 2 for Hardanger Fiddle is just a riot of happiness- each
movement based on a fjord in Norway.

I should ask my sister if she is acquainted with this--she plays Hardanger
Fiddle.

Post by Robert John Guttke
Tveitt is a glorious and a fresh sound for anyone desiring something NEW and
DIFFERENT. Naxos has done a splendid job in returning Geirr Tveitt's
unabashed JOY to the world.
I like him.
Alot.

No kidding!!

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 03:35:54 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
I like him.
Alot.

No kidding!!

Would I lie to you?

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 04:08:01 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
I like him.
Alot.

No kidding!!

Would I lie to you?

I don't know. Would you?

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 04:41:11 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
I like him.
Alot.

No kidding!!

Would I lie to you?

I don't know. Would you?

"My strength is the strength of ten,
because my heart is pure."
-Caligula-

Jerry Kohl

2004-01-11 07:25:00 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
I like him.
Alot.

No kidding!!

Would I lie to you?

I don't know. Would you?

"My strength is the strength of ten,
because my heart is pure."
-Caligula-

Right. Well, that's your cover blown, then!

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 16:31:09 UTC

Post by Robert John Guttke
"My strength is the strength of ten,
because my heart is pure."
-Caligula-

Right. Well, that's your cover blown, then!

RATS!

Raymond Hall

2004-01-11 05:00:26 UTC

"Jerry Kohl" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:***@comcast.net...
| Robert John Guttke wrote:
|
| > > I cannot for my part express an opinion of these works, since I have
not
| > > heard them (in fact, I had not heard the composer's very name until
this
| > > thread), but disagreement of this sort does tend to pique my
curiosity.
| > > Perhaps I should have a listen.
| >
| > Tveitt is an exciting discovery, thus I can only hope you can find the
same
| > joy in his beautiful music.
|
| [snip passionate advocacy]
|
| OK, OK! You've convinced me! I *must* have a listen, then.

The Troll-tunes (Nos. 61-75) I find very exciting, and beautifully
orchestrated and nominated as Suite No.5, coupled with the Suite No.2 (15
Mountain Songs). The notes show Tveitt in his Norwegian home playing the
Langeleik. Yes, I know, you don't know what a Langeleik is, but there is so
much to learn <g>

The other Suites No.1 and No.4 (Wedding suite), on another CD, are quite
lovely too, and all the suites are drawn from tunes gathered in the
Hardanger region of Norway. Suite No.3 unfortunately, so I believe, got lost
in the fire.

I'm going to listen to all my Tveitt in the next few days, including the
piano concertos. For myself I find myself preferring the orchestral suites,
but more seem to prefer the concertos.

To whet anyone's appetite, or even possibly scare them off, to be heard late
at night, ALONE, consider the small snippet below from the notes on the
Troll-tunes :-

----------------
EXTRACT of notes by David Gallagher

.... they reflect the linked lives of the "underjordiske" and Hardanger
people. The "huldre", too, in their parallel dimension, have their
transhumanance, driving their shining cattle to summer farms; they sing soft
lullabies to their children; they celebrate huge Hardanger weddings, and are
so groggy the next morning that a fiddler has to wake them for the "nøring",
the wedding breakfast. Then comes what Tveitt, with (personal?) feeling,
called the "Tragedy" of 'The changling', the folk tradition that "someone
who's 'different', who walks their own path, really comes from another
world. That the "underjordiske" took the human being who was 'like us' and
left their own child instead. And the changeling never really finds a place
in the norms of this world". The Folgafodne glacier glowers ominously: cold,
silent symbol of human helplessness; but happy is "The boy with the
troll-treasure". How did he get it? Probably threw a knife over it; iron,
traditional defence against the supernatural, breaks charms - cast by a
powerful "Spellsong". The old harp, with bent frame of mountain birch
branches, is certainly bewitched: it talks! (An original Tveitt-tune; more
follow.) Garsvoren is the farm's resident goblin - the Scots "brownie";
forefather's spirit, overseeing his inheritance? An elusive elf, heard
hammering, or chopping wood, but rarely seen: cat-sized, shape-changing,
transparent. Helpful - if you look after the place. Garsvoren's mocking
clog-dance gives way to "The water-sprite playing", a spectral spell-song,
floating up from his lake's depths. Dusky, murky "Tussmyrkre" (Twilight) is
the best time to spot the "tusse", a capricious little imp, green-dressed,
with a bobble hat (not unlike a leprechaun); and a whizz on the tin whistle
(Tusseflyta). That eldritch effect of nature, the echo, is explained as the
"underjordiske" calling back. And to end Tveitt's supernatural suite, a
massive shattering evocation of Judgement Day itself; clangorous with
bell-sounds, and seven battering timpani. The Oskereia's final flight,
perhaps, sweeping away us all, mortal and immortal alike.
-------------------

And that, he says, hand dropping orff, is just a part of the notes. The
music is even better.

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Robert John Guttke

2004-01-11 05:24:40 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall
I'm going to listen to all my Tveitt in the next few days, including the
piano concertos. For myself I find myself preferring the orchestral suites,
but more seem to prefer the concertos.

Orchestral Suites?

Nyyken tone poem (just wonderful), two Hardanger fiddle concerto, four piano
concertos (one a double piano concerto), Prillar, Sun God Symphony (skip
that one) and the 100 Hardanger Tunes, Suites 1, 2, 4, 5.....

But WHAT orchestral suites? Is there more Tveitt out there than I know?

And to end Tveitt's supernatural suite, a

Post by Raymond Hall
massive shattering evocation of Judgement Day itself; clangorous with
bell-sounds, and seven battering timpani. The Oskereia's final flight,
perhaps, sweeping away us all, mortal and immortal alike.
-------------------
And that, he says, hand dropping orff, is just a part of the notes. The
music is even better.

Yes, but it is worth losing a hand to help introduce folks to Tveitt.

Raymond Hall

2004-01-11 10:22:32 UTC

"Robert John Guttke" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:s65Mb.12805$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| > I'm going to listen to all my Tveitt in the next few days, including the
| > piano concertos. For myself I find myself preferring the orchestral
| suites,
| > but more seem to prefer the concertos.
|
| Orchestral Suites?
|
| Nyyken tone poem (just wonderful), two Hardanger fiddle concerto, four
piano
| concertos (one a double piano concerto), Prillar, Sun God Symphony (skip
| that one) and the 100 Hardanger Tunes, Suites 1, 2, 4, 5.....
|
| But WHAT orchestral suites? Is there more Tveitt out there than I know?

The suites you have just mentioned? The suites 1,2 4 and 5 comprised of
orchestrations from 100 Hardanger Tunes, some of which were composed for
piano, but as Tveitt later realised, are better orchestrated.

Suites Nos.2 and 5 Royal Scottish Nat Orch/Bjarte Engeset (8.555770)
Suites Nos.1 and 4 Royal Scottish Nat Orch/Bjarte Engeset (8.555078)

Suite No.5 is the Troll-tune suite.
<g>

| And to end Tveitt's supernatural suite, a
| > massive shattering evocation of Judgement Day itself; clangorous with
| > bell-sounds, and seven battering timpani. The Oskereia's final flight,
| > perhaps, sweeping away us all, mortal and immortal alike.
| > -------------------
| >
| > And that, he says, hand dropping orff, is just a part of the notes. The
| > music is even better.
|
| Yes, but it is worth losing a hand to help introduce folks to Tveitt.

Indeed. A worthy cause. Tveitt should be better known, but there we are. I
am quite happy to keep him all to myself.
<g>

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Your Pal Brian

2004-01-09 18:40:45 UTC

Mozart - Piano quartets, Clarinet quintet.

If you like singing you might go for oratorios - Handel Messiah etc.,
Haydn Creation...

Or you might be a lieder (German for song, if you didn't know) fan.
Schubert's the big name here, but Hugo Wolf and Schumann and Mahler and
many others put in their two cents worth. Dietrich Fischer Dieskau,
Gundula Janowitz, Karl Erb, Leo Slezak, Aksel Schiotz, Richard Tauber are
a few of the lieder singers I've grown to like.

Schubert - Winterreisse, Die Schone Mullnerin

Mahler - Des Knaben Wunderhorn, Ruckert Lieder

Strauss - Four Last Songs

Wolf - Goethe Lieder, Spanish Songbook

You might like organ music too. It's anything but "smaller-scale" but you
never can tell: Bach, Buxtehude, Pachebel, Sweelinck, Widor...

And another vote for Haydn Op. 76.

Brian

Rob Barnett

2004-01-10 13:31:18 UTC

Jumping off from the Grieg, Chopin and Shostakovich works and avoiding
symphonies why not try:-

Sibelius: En Saga; and Pohjola's Daughter
Scriabin: Piano Concerto (easy next step from Chopin - very tuneful)
Finzi: Clarinet Concerto
Arvo Part: Cantus in Memorian Benjamin Britten
Arvo Part: Der Spiegel im Spiegel
Shostakovich Piano Concerto No. 2 (wither the classic Bernstein version on
Sony or pehraps the new and i think excellent Hyperion)
Falla: El Amor Brujo (especially the final section)

Let us know what you think of any of the works being recommended.

Rob
--
Rob Barnett
Editor, Classical Music on the Web
www.musicweb.uk.net
Editor, British Music Society Newsletter

jeffc

2004-01-10 19:47:01 UTC

Post by Chenrezig
BEETHOVEN
"Kreutzer" sonata
"Waldstein" sonata
"Emperor" concerto
"Ghost", "Archduke", other piano trios
Am String Quartet (op. 132)
Grosse Fuge
Missa Solemnis
MOZART
Requiem
GRIEG
Am piano concerto
CHOPIN
Mostly everything, but especially the Ballades
SHOSTAKOVICH
Trio no. 2
A few words about my tastes, since it probably isn't clear from the
above list: In general I favor smaller-scale works to larger ones; I
tend not to like symphonies (for instance) very much.

You absolutely MUST have Beethoven's Piano Sonatas Appassionata, Pathetique,
and Moonlight (Nos. 23, 8, 14 respectively). If you like Mozart's voices,
then you should also check out his Great Mass in C, and probably a
highlights CD of Marriage of Figaro opera - yes, an opera. You should of
course also have his serenade, Eine Kleine Nachtmusik - another must have.
If you like Grieg's piano concerto, then you should also get Schuman's a
minor piano concerto - they are often sold together on the same CD.

jeffc

2004-01-10 19:51:06 UTC

Post by jeffc
If you like Mozart's voices,
then you should also check out his Great Mass in C...

C minor, that is

A.J. Robb

2004-01-12 22:09:47 UTC