Discussion:
OT Coup? Civil war? Trump's Untergang
Add Reply
Gerard
2020-07-23 07:36:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 09:19:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
In 4 months, isn't he hoping that we'll all be dead by then so that no one can vote against him?
RANDY WOLFGANG
2020-07-23 10:16:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
The book by his niece explains so much. He has been acting this way his entire life. Bully, refusal to admit mistakes, hyperbole - its all been there from the time he was the young son of a monster father and ineffectual mother. Usually I feel sorry for those who are so damaged but this guy is the POTUS and that is dangerous for the world. BTW he looks so bloated and awful I'm not sure he'll make it to the election
Andy Evans
2020-07-23 14:34:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
wkasimer
2020-07-23 14:44:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
The problem is that the most prominent politicians are now media personalities.
Frank Berger
2020-07-23 15:41:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
What's the difference?
JohnGavin
2020-07-23 15:53:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.

That problem started with the Republican President elected in 1980. Each one has gotten progressively worse. Now the entire party with a few exceptions has gone down the drain, as if they have no will of their own.
Oscar
2020-07-23 16:27:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
That problem started with the Republican President elected in 1980. Each one has gotten progressively
worse. Now the entire party with a few exceptions has gone down the drain, as if they have no will of their
own.
Eliminating world communism as it was once known, save Cuba, was not a good thing, Mr. Gavin? The start of a nearly 40-year economic run, notwithstanding a couple mild recessions and one big one (thx, Freddie & Fannie), under the aegis and as a result of the genius of Reagan and Volcker and Greenspan was not a good thing? Expansion of world freedoms and democracies, at least till the last 10 years—which coincided with the rise of O_ama? China becoming a world power, thx to our U.S. research universities and Clinton and Madeleine Albright who endorsed CCP's admission into W.T.O.?
wkasimer
2020-07-23 16:34:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
That problem started with the Republican President elected in 1980. Each one has gotten progressively worse. Now the entire party with a few exceptions has gone down the drain, as if they have no will of their own.
You're right - they should be fighting a lot harder against the Democrat Party's lurch toward leftist totalitarianism.
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 16:45:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by JohnGavin
That problem started with the Republican President elected in 1980. Each one has gotten progressively worse. Now the entire party with a few exceptions has gone down the drain, as if they have no will of their own.
You're right - they should be fighting a lot harder against the Democrat Party's lurch toward leftist totalitarianism.
Hear, hear! But avarice got in the way.

Bob Harper
wkasimer
2020-07-23 16:58:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Hear, hear! But avarice got in the way.
Avarice is only partly to blame. I think that too many Republicans thought that by compromising on conservative principles, the voters would see reason and vote for them. It never happens. Some of Mitt Romney's recent actions, I think, bear this out. He's been getting lots of pats on the head from liberals for them, but would any of those people vote for him over Biden if that were the choice? Not a chance.
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 20:08:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by Bob Harper
Hear, hear! But avarice got in the way.
Avarice is only partly to blame. I think that too many Republicans thought that by compromising on conservative principles, the voters would see reason and vote for them. It never happens. Some of Mitt Romney's recent actions, I think, bear this out. He's been getting lots of pats on the head from liberals for them, but would any of those people vote for him over Biden if that were the choice? Not a chance.
You're right. He wants to be liked, and those patting him on the head
would still, push come to shove, hate him.

Bob Harper
wkasimer
2020-07-23 20:19:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
You're right. He wants to be liked, and those patting him on the head
would still, push come to shove, hate him.
They certainly did in 2012.
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 18:25:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
- As the age of television progresses the Reagans will be the rule, not the exception. To be perfect for television is all a President has to be these days.

Gore Vidal
Phl Maestro
2020-07-23 18:39:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I know this won't change any minds here, but nonetheless, Reagan had been the two-term governor of the biggest state in the country and also spent the years between his governorship and presidency studying and writing and speaking about virtually every major national issue. He had also been a union president. You seem to think he had done nothing but make movies and TV shows and then stepped right into the presidency.
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 20:13:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
I know this won't change any minds here, but nonetheless, Reagan had been the two-term governor of the biggest state in the country and also spent the years between his governorship and presidency studying and writing and speaking about virtually every major national issue. He had also been a union president. You seem to think he had done nothing but make movies and TV shows and then stepped right into the presidency.
You are absolutely correct, both about what he did to prepare for the
office, and about the effect of your words on the minds of those
predisposed to see him in negative terms.

Bob Harper
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 21:37:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
- As the age of television progresses the Reagans will be the rule, not the exception. To be perfect for television is all a President has to be these days.
Gore Vidal
According to this:

- As president, Ronald Reagan sometimes veered from his carefully written speeches with disastrous results. In 1988, when trying to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things," Reagan slipped and said, "Facts are stupid things."

Not known as an environmentalist, Reagan said in 1966, "A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?"

https://people.howstuffworks.com/9-political-slips-of-the-tongue1.htm
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 21:44:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
- As the age of television progresses the Reagans will be the rule, not the exception. To be perfect for television is all a President has to be these days.
Gore Vidal
- As president, Ronald Reagan sometimes veered from his carefully written speeches with disastrous results. In 1988, when trying to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things," Reagan slipped and said, "Facts are stupid things."
Not known as an environmentalist, Reagan said in 1966, "A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?"
https://people.howstuffworks.com/9-political-slips-of-the-tongue1.htm
https://www.liveabout.com/ronald-reagan-quotes-2733513
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 22:10:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
- As the age of television progresses the Reagans will be the rule, not the exception. To be perfect for television is all a President has to be these days.
Gore Vidal
- As president, Ronald Reagan sometimes veered from his carefully written speeches with disastrous results. In 1988, when trying to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things," Reagan slipped and said, "Facts are stupid things."
Not known as an environmentalist, Reagan said in 1966, "A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?"
https://people.howstuffworks.com/9-political-slips-of-the-tongue1.htm
https://www.liveabout.com/ronald-reagan-quotes-2733513
With regard to Trump, if Obama ever DARED to say THIS, wouldn't he bring back lynch mobs?:

- I’m automatically attracted to beautiful women — I just start kissing them, it’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy.
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 01:43:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Andy Evans
I hope the USA can get over electing media personalities and go back to electing politicians.
- As the age of television progresses the Reagans will be the rule, not the exception. To be perfect for television is all a President has to be these days.
Gore Vidal
- Today's public figures can no longer write their own speeches or books, and there is some evidence that they can't read them either.

Gore Vidal
Bozo
2020-07-23 14:54:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There are always monsters like Trump.The even bigger problem is that are those who enable, support, or use for their own ends, the monster ; or who say " was just following, had to follow, orders" ; or remain cowardly silent ; or lack the intelligence or principles to recognize a monster. Apparently at least 40% of Americans fall in one or more categories of "those".
wkasimer
2020-07-23 15:16:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bozo
There are always monsters like Trump.The even bigger problem is that are those who enable, support, or use for their own ends, the monster ; or who say " was just following, had to follow, orders" ; or remain cowardly silent ; or lack the intelligence or principles to recognize a monster. Apparently at least 40% of Americans fall in one or more categories of "those".
Postings like this one will make people think that "Bozo" is your real name.
Frank Berger
2020-07-23 15:40:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bozo
There are always monsters like Trump.The even bigger problem is that are those who enable, support, or use for their own ends, the monster ; or who say " was just following, had to follow, orders" ; or remain cowardly silent ; or lack the intelligence or principles to recognize a monster. Apparently at least 40% of Americans fall in one or more categories of "those".
And there's at least one Iowan who has zero sense of
perspective.
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 16:23:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees
the world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends
the SS to Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him
reason for having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
The 'SS'? This is delusional.

Bob Harper
wkasimer
2020-07-23 16:34:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
The 'SS'? This is delusional.
That's how you know when you're dealing with an irrational leftist. They compare everything that they dislike to Nazi Germany, using terms like "SS" and "stormtroopers".
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 16:53:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by Bob Harper
The 'SS'? This is delusional.
That's how you know when you're dealing with an irrational leftist. They compare everything that they dislike to Nazi Germany, using terms like "SS" and "stormtroopers".
All the while not realizing how similar they are to their supposed
opposites:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/07/21/viral_comedy_video_when_wokes_and_racists_actually_agree_on_everything.html?
fbclid=IwAR2JWgAkkM6J6G2Agw53kN5MWf83kZXzdI8tiYqgxiSok_yBqSTTlMWSdsQ
Gerard
2020-07-23 17:35:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
The 'SS'? This is delusional.
That's how you know when you're dealing with an irrational leftist. They
compare everything that they dislike to Nazi Germany, using terms like "SS"
and "stormtroopers".
------------------------------------------------------

The term gets understood I see. Although many are too blind to see it.
It's about what a dangerous idiot lives in that white house.
Bozo
2020-07-23 17:46:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
The term gets understood I see. Although many are too blind to see it.
It's about what a dangerous idiot lives in that white house.
The Judge's ruling today in the Michael Cohen release case makes clear what dangerous Stalinist thugs are Trump and Barr, if any further clarification was needed.
msw design
2020-07-23 18:02:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bozo
Post by Gerard
The term gets understood I see. Although many are too blind to see it.
It's about what a dangerous idiot lives in that white house.
The Judge's ruling today in the Michael Cohen release case makes clear what dangerous Stalinist thugs are Trump and Barr, if any further clarification was needed.
For those who look at all of Trump's corruption and abuse of power and see only the specter of leftist totalitarianism, facts reason have no power.

Look back on the preposterous imagery of the "American Carnage" inauguration speech and you see a vile fantasy designed to cover an equal and opposite reaction.
Larry
2020-07-23 17:10:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees
the world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends
the SS to Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him
reason for having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
The 'SS'? This is delusional.
Trump's stormtroopers have more similarities with post-world war I
free corps units or possibly the SA.
Do these federal thugs listen to white power rock or do they perhaps
prefer Wagner conducted by Karl Böhm or Herbert von Karajan, that's
the question.

Larry
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 20:08:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees
the world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends
the SS to Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him
reason for having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
The 'SS'? This is delusional.
Trump's stormtroopers have more similarities with post-world war I
free corps units or possibly the SA.
Do these federal thugs listen to white power rock or do they perhaps
prefer Wagner conducted by Karl Böhm or Herbert von Karajan, that's
the question.
Larry
More delusion.

Bob Harper
Phl Maestro
2020-07-23 17:16:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
I'd say you're lacking a little context.

Just in Chicago, since Friday, there have been over 100 people shot (71 over the weekend, 15 leaving a funeral a couple nights ago and that doesn't take a couple other days into account, so I"m sure it's comfortably over 100). Police protecting public property we set upon by a mob who injured I think 20-25 of them. There is a gang of 10-17 year olds terrifying one section of the city with a series of car-jackings.

What is your case for thinking that Chicago is handling this situation on its own and doesn't need outside help?
Henk vT
2020-07-23 17:45:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
What is your case for thinking that Chicago is handling this situation on its own and doesn't need outside help?
It may be that Chicago (pars pro toto) under all circumstances is better off without Trump's help ...

Henk
msw design
2020-07-23 17:59:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
What is your case for thinking that Chicago is handling this situation on its own and doesn't need outside help?
What is your case for thinking federal troops are actually going to focus on these matters? How would you measure effective involvement along these lines? My suggestion is that any list you draw up will fail to be followed. Do it- I dare you. You're going to be reaching for excuses.

These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them. That's what we've seen, and that's what we will see. And anyone who imagines there is a goal here (and real issues looking to be solved) besides escalation and domination is too invested in their political identity to see clearly.
Phl Maestro
2020-07-23 18:15:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them.
Thank you. That's a perfect description of what mobs who aren't interested in peaceful coexistence are doing to Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc.

I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
msw design
2020-07-23 22:45:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by msw design
These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them.
Thank you. That's a perfect description of what mobs who aren't interested in peaceful coexistence are doing to Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc.
Hogwash. Only in the mind of paranoid right-wingers are protesters anywhere near as dangerous as unidentified federal troops who are untrained and unconstrained by the practices and legal demands of policing.

And who the hell are you to speak for Chicago? We don't have a problem with protesters that requires federal troops. Just because the proto-fascist head of the police union says he wants the firepower doesn't mean that the CPD can't take care of itself and protesters. It does so quite successfully regularly on its own regrettable terms.
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
I'd love to know what you see as evidence, because I see a bunch of talk. The guy was chased by men with baseball bats? And he has no injuries? "According to Johnson, this woman was also holding an Antifa pen and was communicating with others via walkie-talkie." Seriously, this sounds like a Roger Corman film.

There is simply no evidence of ANTIFA involvement in any of the BLM protests, no matter how much this right-wing boogeyman gets brought up in party propaganda on Fox News and in other right-wing rags. Just because one person says it doesn't make it true.

You want something real? Here's a vet who was beaten and whose hand was broken because he had the nerve to talk to Federal Troops. It's all on video. Was this man a threat at any point? Even after struck? Hell no. This is the violence you are condoning and inviting on other cities.
msw design
2020-07-23 23:00:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
You want something real? Here's a vet who was beaten and whose hand was broken because he had the nerve to talk to Federal Troops. It's all on video. Was this man a threat at any point? Even after struck? Hell no. This is the violence you are condoning and inviting on other cities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/20/christopher-david-portland-protest-video/
Phl Maestro
2020-07-24 00:07:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
And who the hell are you to speak for Chicago? We don't have a problem with protesters that requires federal troops. Just because the proto-fascist head of the police union says he wants the firepower doesn't mean that the CPD can't take care of itself and protesters. It does so quite successfully regularly on its own regrettable terms.

msw design
2020-07-24 00:48:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by msw design
And who the hell are you to speak for Chicago? We don't have a problem with protesters that requires federal troops. Just because the proto-fascist head of the police union says he wants the firepower doesn't mean that the CPD can't take care of itself and protesters. It does so quite successfully regularly on its own regrettable terms.
http://youtu.be/U1VdhQbfSTY
Your point? Personally, I'm happy to give up idolatry of Columbus. His moral failings as a slaver are not redeemed by his "discovery" of America. NEither I nor my children need grotesque fairly tales about our country in order to love it and respect the people in it. And statues are not people.
Phl Maestro
2020-07-24 00:51:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by msw design
And who the hell are you to speak for Chicago? We don't have a problem with protesters that requires federal troops. Just because the proto-fascist head of the police union says he wants the firepower doesn't mean that the CPD can't take care of itself and protesters. It does so quite successfully regularly on its own regrettable terms.
http://youtu.be/U1VdhQbfSTY
Your point? Personally, I'm happy to give up idolatry of Columbus. His moral failings as a slaver are not redeemed by his "discovery" of America. NEither I nor my children need grotesque fairly tales about our >>country in order to love it and respect the people in it. And statues are not people.
Interesting that your focus is on the morality of honoring Columbus and not what was happening to the police after watching that.
wkasimer
2020-07-24 01:21:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
And who the hell are you to speak for Chicago? We don't have a problem with protesters that requires federal troops. Just because the proto-fascist head of the police union says he wants the firepower doesn't mean that the CPD can't take care of itself and protesters. It does so quite successfully regularly on its own regrettable terms.
https://www.facebook.com/Breitbart/videos/3378050592260595
msw design
2020-07-23 23:17:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
I have to respond to this a bit more because if this is what you read- and it sure appears this is the only place this got serious "coverage" - then you are feeding yourself propaganda garbage, nothing more.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/flag-bearing-marine-veteran-recalls-horrific-experience-within-portland-riots

All the relevant "facts" in this piece are claims the piece raises through the puppet of Gabriel Johnson- and by using that device, zero fact-checking appears to have been put into it. Do we know if ANY of his claims are true? No. This kind of swill could not be published in so many of the vessels out there derided as "fake news"- CNN, WAPO, NYT, etc. - but the howls of "unfair" by the right are just cover for the lies they feed their base all the time.
Phl Maestro
2020-07-24 00:12:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
I have to respond to this a bit more because if this is what you read- and it sure appears this is the only place this got serious "coverage" - then you are feeding yourself propaganda garbage, nothing more.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/flag-bearing-marine-veteran-recalls-horrific-experience-within-portland-riots
All the relevant "facts" in this piece are claims the piece raises through the puppet of Gabriel Johnson- and by using that device, zero fact-checking appears to have been put into it. Do we know if ANY of his >claims are true? No. This kind of swill could not be published in so many of the vessels out there derided as "fake news"- CNN, WAPO, NYT, etc. - but the howls of "unfair" by the right are just cover for the lies <they feed their base all the time.
<

I don't watch TV news, but I do check in to Fox's web site to see what they are covering, PRECISELY because I know those other sources you cited won't do it. We've reached the point where all media outlets have a point of view. At least Fox is honest about its point of view. People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks. I frequently bring up points citing recent events when disagreeing with liberals and they have no idea of what I'm talking about because they only get their news from the sort of people who drove Bari Weiss and Andrew Sullivan out out of their jobs.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 00:16:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by msw design
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
I have to respond to this a bit more because if this is what you read- and it sure appears this is the only place this got serious "coverage" - then you are feeding yourself propaganda garbage, nothing more.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/flag-bearing-marine-veteran-recalls-horrific-experience-within-portland-riots
All the relevant "facts" in this piece are claims the piece raises through the puppet of Gabriel Johnson- and by using that device, zero fact-checking appears to have been put into it. Do we know if ANY of his >claims are true? No. This kind of swill could not be published in so many of the vessels out there derided as "fake news"- CNN, WAPO, NYT, etc. - but the howls of "unfair" by the right are just cover for the lies <they feed their base all the time.
<
I don't watch TV news, but I do check in to Fox's web site to see what they are covering, PRECISELY because I know those other sources you cited won't do it. We've reached the point where all media outlets have a point of view. At least Fox is honest about its point of view. People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks. I frequently bring up points citing recent events when disagreeing with liberals and they have no idea of what I'm talking about because they only get their news from the sort of people who drove Bari Weiss and Andrew Sullivan out out of their jobs.
And by the way, a little search will show you that Portland news outlets did cover the story.
JohnGavin
2020-07-24 00:28:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
“At least Fox is honest about its point of view.”

The fair and balanced network..........
Right
Phl Maestro
2020-07-24 00:44:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
“At least Fox is honest about its point of view.”
The fair and balanced network..........
Right
Can we be at least a little current? I'm aware that was their slogan when they were new. What was that? Like 25 years ago?

I doubt any of their on-air personalities would deny they have a rightward slant, unlike Chuck Todd, who just laughlingly made the statement that both NBC News and MSNBC (or at least their daytime programming) have no editorial or ideological slant whatsoever. That statement aside, I'd say MSNBC is about the only other major network that is open about its bias. CNN would have you believe they play it straight without any bias. Anybody who has spent any time watching them and believes that clearly can't be taken seriously.
JohnGavin
2020-07-24 06:08:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Phl Maestro
- show quoted text -
Can we be at least a little current? I'm aware that was their slogan when they were new. What was that? Like 25 years ago?


2017 - hardly 25 years ago. They finally gave it up because it made them a laughing stock - and the male CEO and opinion stars like Roger Ailes, Hannity, and now Tucker Carlson were all being charged with sexual harassment. They had to back off. It now seems like even their puppet master turned against them.
O***@aol.com
2020-07-24 06:48:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
^^ re Hannity, Tucker accusations. File next to: Russiagate, the “perfect phone call” w/ Volodymyr Zelensky, and the economic Plandemic.


From Mediaite-dot-com:

<< Holes Emerge in Cathy Areu’s Lawsuit Against Fox News Hosts Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity

By Rudy Takala
July 23rd, 2020, 6:00 pm

Inconsistencies are emerging in claims made by Cathy Areu, a once-periodic Fox News guest, that she was harassed by some of the network’s biggest names — including prime time anchor Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity. New emails obtained by Mediaite shed further light on the case.

In a lawsuit filed on Monday in the Southern District of New York, Areu claims she was harassed by Carlson, Hannity and other employees of the network, and that she was largely barred from appearing after she declined their advances. In an initial response the company said the claims were “completely false.”

Over the last several days, records of Areu’s appearances on the network and other publicly available information has undermined some of her claims. New emails between Areu and the network’s employees seem to add to those concerns.

Even more significantly, eyewitness accounts indicate Carlson’s wife was with him on a key evening when Areu said Carlson promised her he would be alone. >>

FULL ARTICLE HERE: https://www.mediaite.com/news/holes-emerge-in-cathy-areus-lawsuit-against-fox-news-hosts-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity/
msw design
2020-07-24 01:09:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
And by the way, a little search will show you that Portland news outlets did cover the story.
Is there a corroborating statement from anyone regarding this man's claims?
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 01:20:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
And by the way, a little search will show you that Portland news outlets did cover the story.
Is there a corroborating statement from anyone regarding this man's claims?
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.

This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
msw design
2020-07-24 01:29:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 01:36:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
Says someone who thinks philosophical discussion on Columbus when he sees numerous cops being attacked by a mob. I'm not sure I trust your judgement.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 01:45:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A conservative online publication (The Federalist) just caught the vaunted Atlantic this past week.

They ran an opinion piece on defunding the police in which the writer claimed to first gain her dislike for cops after seeing one shoot a boy under shady circumstances. The Federalist looked into the old records and stories and discovered it was more like a private security guard shooting an 18-year-old cousin with whom he was arguing.
msw design
2020-07-24 13:41:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
Says someone who thinks philosophical discussion on Columbus when he sees numerous cops being attacked by a mob. I'm not sure I trust your judgement.
Do you know anything about the CDP and its history? Does any of that history bother you? Throughout this popular uprising, the CDP has behaved like the CDP. The people who trust the police to behave justly and appropriately are those who stay in the comfort of their homes and don't have a clue about reality. That all you care about in this is the welfare of the CDP speaks volumes for your judgment, your detachment, your delusions and your privilege.
b***@inquirer.com
2020-07-24 15:52:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
Says someone who thinks philosophical discussion on Columbus when he sees numerous cops being attacked by a mob. I'm not sure I trust your judgement.
Do you know anything about the CDP and its history? Does any of that history bother you? Throughout this popular uprising, the CDP has behaved like the CDP. The people who trust the police to behave justly and appropriately are those who stay in the comfort of their homes and don't have a clue about reality. That all you care about in this is the welfare of the CDP speaks volumes for your judgment, your detachment, your delusions and your privilege.
Someone else pointed out your lack of nuance in making this one extreme or the other. I'm capable of wanting reforms to police departments to make it easier to eliminate bad cops, among other things, without simultaneously wishing to see what's happening in several of our major cities right now, including Chicago.

I'm also convinced that we've reached a point where police are so hesitant to do their jobs for fear of being charged with a crime or starting a riot if they make an honest mistake under the heat of difficult circumstances that in some places, bad people with illegal guns are taking advantage of the situation to create havoc.

I also have not the slightest interest in a social revolution of the sort that the Marxists and anarchists who are some of the leaders of this movement wish to put into place. We need reforms; not a revolution. When people who want the latter go beyond peaceful protest, they are committing crimes and should be treated as criminals.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 16:43:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@inquirer.com
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
Says someone who thinks philosophical discussion on Columbus when he sees numerous cops being attacked by a mob. I'm not sure I trust your judgement.
Do you know anything about the CDP and its history? Does any of that history bother you? Throughout this popular uprising, the CDP has behaved like the CDP. The people who trust the police to behave justly and appropriately are those who stay in the comfort of their homes and don't have a clue about reality. That all you care about in this is the welfare of the CDP speaks volumes for your judgment, your detachment, your delusions and your privilege.
Someone else pointed out your lack of nuance in making this one extreme or the other. I'm capable of wanting reforms to police departments to make it easier to eliminate bad cops, among other things, without simultaneously wishing to see what's happening in several of our major cities right now, including Chicago.
I'm also convinced that we've reached a point where police are so hesitant to do their jobs for fear of being charged with a crime or starting a riot if they make an honest mistake under the heat of difficult circumstances that in some places, bad people with illegal guns are taking advantage of the situation to create havoc.
I also have not the slightest interest in a social revolution of the sort that the Marxists and anarchists who are some of the leaders of this movement wish to put into place. We need reforms; not a revolution. When people who want the latter go beyond peaceful protest, they are committing crimes and should be treated as criminals.
Agree 100%. MDW believes he has the moral high ground on
every issue. There are only good people and bad people. By
demeaning those who don't agree with him on everything, he
makes himself feel better. He is a good representative of
the unforgiving left. I hope he is happy. I am not.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 16:18:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
- hide quoted text -
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Post by msw design
Post by p***@yahoo.com
I don't know. But this is small potatoes to the number of times major media outlets ran with stories on Trump and Russia that they then had to admit were incorrect because they were so eager to score points that they abandoned traditional journalistic standards.
This story with the marine isn't big enough for me to lose sleep over. I suspect it's accurate. If you discover it's not, by all means, let us know.
You're a perfect Fox News zombie. You have concerns for "journalistic standards" only about those sources you disagree with, and will repeat any bit of hogwash without concern for what can be verified if you like the sound of it.
Says someone who thinks philosophical discussion on Columbus when he sees numerous cops being attacked by a mob. I'm not sure I trust your judgement.
Do you know anything about the CDP and its history? Does any of that history bother you? Throughout this popular uprising, the CDP has behaved like the CDP. The people who trust the police to behave justly and appropriately are those who stay in the comfort of their homes and don't have a clue about reality. That all you care about in this is the welfare of the CDP speaks volumes for your judgment, your detachment, your delusions and your privilege.
Someone else pointed out your lack of nuance in making this one extreme or the other. I'm capable of wanting reforms to police departments to make it easier to eliminate bad cops, among other things, without simultaneously wishing to see what's happening in several of our major cities right now, including Chicago.

I'm also convinced that we've reached a point where police are so hesitant to do their jobs for fear of being charged with a crime or starting a riot if they make an honest mistake under the heat of difficult circumstances that in some places, bad people with illegal guns are taking advantage of the situation to create havoc.

I also have not the slightest interest in a social revolution of the sort that the Marxists and anarchists who are some of the leaders of this movement wish to put into place. We need reforms; not a revolution. When people who want the latter go beyond peaceful protest, they are committing crimes and should be treated as criminals.
wkasimer
2020-07-24 16:33:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Do you know anything about the CDP and its history? Does any of that history bother you? Throughout this popular uprising, the CDP has behaved like the CDP. The people who trust the police to behave justly and appropriately are those who stay in the comfort of their homes and don't have a clue about reality. That all you care about in this is the welfare of the CDP speaks volumes for your judgment, your detachment, your delusions and your privilege.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cpd-releases-new-video-of-friday-protest-says-mob-action-injured-49-officers/2307965/
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 00:42:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by msw design
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received. It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
I have to respond to this a bit more because if this is what you read- and it sure appears this is the only place this got serious "coverage" - then you are feeding yourself propaganda garbage, nothing more.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/flag-bearing-marine-veteran-recalls-horrific-experience-within-portland-riots
All the relevant "facts" in this piece are claims the piece raises through the puppet of Gabriel Johnson- and by using that device, zero fact-checking appears to have been put into it. Do we know if ANY of his >claims are true? No. This kind of swill could not be published in so many of the vessels out there derided as "fake news"- CNN, WAPO, NYT, etc. - but the howls of "unfair" by the right are just cover for the lies <they feed their base all the time.
<
I don't watch TV news, but I do check in to Fox's web site to see what they are covering, PRECISELY because I know those other sources you cited won't do it. We've reached the point where all media outlets have a point of view. At least Fox is honest about its point of view. People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks. I frequently bring up points citing recent events when disagreeing with liberals and they have no idea of what I'm talking about because they only get their news from the sort of people who drove Bari Weiss and Andrew Sullivan out out of their jobs.
From the liberal media you would think that there are only
peaceful protesters. The violence and property damage must
be a right wing hallucination. Baltimore's Columbus statue
must have walked itself into the harbor.

Regarding using federal law enforcemnt, the law clearly
allow this to protect Federal property and if local police
are not doing it, the feds have to do it. However, the
scope of federal action here is limited. I do not support
the feds coming in (and I don't care which branch) to engage
in general law enforcement that the local police are
supposed to do. Certainly not without the invitation of
local authority (which I think means governors). If they
come in to protect federal property, given the hostility
towards them, I think it's reasonable that they not be
indentifiable by name. Those federal officers in Portland
had numbers for identification.
msw design
2020-07-24 01:18:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
From the liberal media you would think that there are only
peaceful protesters.
I do not base my judgments of police actions on some damn fool notion that all the protesters are actually protesting something and making good choices. Som epeople are clearly just acting out. I've seen the footage of looting, people throwing projectiles and what must be property damage. That doesn't change my objections to police actions or federal military involvement in these situations.

This is a moment where people are talking about racism, police violence, civil rights, how justice is applied in cities and other real, important matters, and you've decided to complain about mainstream media coverage of the protesters? Well, thanks for showing us what you care about.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 02:08:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
From the liberal media you would think that there are only
peaceful protesters.
I do not base my judgments of police actions on some damn fool notion that all the protesters are actually protesting something and making good choices. Som epeople are clearly just acting out. I've seen the footage of looting, people throwing projectiles and what must be property damage. That doesn't change my objections to police actions or federal military involvement in these situations.
Nor mine. Tell CNN about the looting and violence and damage.
Post by msw design
This is a moment where people are talking about racism, police violence, civil rights, how justice is applied in cities and other real, important matters, and you've decided to complain about mainstream media coverage of the protesters? Well, thanks for showing us what you care about.
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
Oscar
2020-07-24 05:38:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
YESS!! If you're not subscribing to The Wall Street Journal now what's yr problem? I ditched the failing hometown L.A. Times in 2011 or '12 after 17 years as a daily print subscriber and haven't looked back.


From Daily Mail:

<< Wall Street Journal vows not to 'wilt under cancel culture pressure' or yield to 'conformity and intolerance' after 280 staffers signed a letter protesting 'misinformation' in the paper's conservative opinion pieces

• iThe Wall Street Journal's opinion section issued a scathing rebuttal late Thursday to a letter signed by 280 of the paper's staffers
• iThe Opinion editorial board said the 'anxieties' of the signers 'aren’t our responsibility in any case'
• iIt vowed not 'wilt under cancel culture pressure' as other publications had
• iThe board also said it would push back on 'progressive conformity and intolerance' with its articles
• iThe group of reporters, editors and other staff at WSJ and its parent company Dow Jones sent the extraordinary letter to publisher Almar Latour on Tuesday
• iIt accused the section of 'misinformation' in conservative opinion pieces
• iThe letter calls for a clearer divide between the paper's news and opinion divisions and raises alarm about the accuracy of the latter division

By Frances Mulraney and Megan Sheets
July 24, 2020

The Wall Street Journal's opinion section had a scathing response Thursday to the 280 staffers who had signed a letter this week claiming it pushed 'misinformation'.

In a note published by the section's editorial board late Thursday night, the fiery rebuttal vowed that the opinion section wouldn't 'wilt under cancel-culture pressure' following the protest letter sent to publisher Almar Latour.

The board said that it would not be responding directly to staffers who signed the letter but hoped to reassure readers that it will continue to fight back against 'a culture of growing progressive conformity and intolerance'.

It added that the opinion section answers to publisher Latour and that the 'anxieties' of the signers 'aren’t our responsibility in any case'.

The board said that it had been 'gratified' by the 'outpouring of support' following the leaking of Tuesday's letter.

'But the support has often been mixed with concern that perhaps the letter will cause us to change our principles and content,' it added.

'On that point, reassurance is in order.'

'The signers report to the News editors or other parts of the business, and the News and Opinion departments operate with separate staffs and editors,' the board added.

'Both report to Publisher Almar Latour. This separation allows us to pursue stories and inform readers with independent judgment.'

It then references similar issues that have arisen in other large publications such as the New York Times, stating that it was 'probably inevitable that the wave of progressive cancel culture would arrive at the Journal, as it has at nearly every other cultural, business, academic and journalistic institution'.

The board then argued its case that the separation from the news department allows it to work independently to combat what it claims is the 'uniform progressive views' seen elsewhere.

'Most Journal reporters attempt to cover the news fairly and down the middle, and our opinion pages offer an alternative to the uniform progressive views that dominate nearly all of today’s media,' it said.

'As long as our proprietors allow us the privilege to do so, the opinion pages will continue to publish contributors who speak their minds within the tradition of vigorous, reasoned discourse,' they added.

'And these columns will continue to promote the principles of free people and free markets, which are more important than ever in what is a culture of growing progressive conformity and intolerance.'

The swipe at colleagues came after more than 280 journalists at The Wall Street Journal and its parent company Dow Jones penned an extraordinary letter to their publisher Tuesday protesting the spread of 'misinformation' in the paper's opinion section.

The group of reporters, editors and other employees called for a clearer divide between the paper's news and opinion divisions and raised alarm about the accuracy of the latter division.

'Opinion's lack of fact-checking and transparency, and its apparent disregard for evidence, undermine our readers' trust and our ability to gain credibility with sources,' the letter states.

'Many readers already cannot tell the difference between reporting and Opinion. And from those who know of the divide, reporters nonetheless face questions about the Journal's accuracy and fairness because of errors published in opinion.'

The employees cited several examples of offending articles, including a column Vice President Mike Pence wrote last month, in which he said panic over a second wave of coronavirus cases was 'overblown' and argued that the Trump administration's handling of the pandemic has been a success. . . >>


FULL ARTICLE HERE: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8555401/Wall-Street-Journal-vows-not-wilt-cancel-culture-pressure-staffers-protest-letter.html
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 14:08:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Oscar
YESS!! If you're not subscribing to The Wall Street Journal now what's yr problem? I ditched the failing hometown L.A. Times in 2011 or '12 after 17 years as a daily print subscriber and haven't looked back.
<< Wall Street Journal vows not to 'wilt under cancel culture pressure' or yield to 'conformity and intolerance' after 280 staffers signed a letter protesting 'misinformation' in the paper's conservative opinion pieces
• iThe Wall Street Journal's opinion section issued a scathing rebuttal late Thursday to a letter signed by 280 of the paper's staffers
• iThe Opinion editorial board said the 'anxieties' of the signers 'aren’t our responsibility in any case'
• iIt vowed not 'wilt under cancel culture pressure' as other publications had
• iThe board also said it would push back on 'progressive conformity and intolerance' with its articles
• iThe group of reporters, editors and other staff at WSJ and its parent company Dow Jones sent the extraordinary letter to publisher Almar Latour on Tuesday
• iIt accused the section of 'misinformation' in conservative opinion pieces
• iThe letter calls for a clearer divide between the paper's news and opinion divisions and raises alarm about the accuracy of the latter division
By Frances Mulraney and Megan Sheets
July 24, 2020
The Wall Street Journal's opinion section had a scathing response Thursday to the 280 staffers who had signed a letter this week claiming it pushed 'misinformation'.
In a note published by the section's editorial board late Thursday night, the fiery rebuttal vowed that the opinion section wouldn't 'wilt under cancel-culture pressure' following the protest letter sent to publisher Almar Latour.
The board said that it would not be responding directly to staffers who signed the letter but hoped to reassure readers that it will continue to fight back against 'a culture of growing progressive conformity and intolerance'.
It added that the opinion section answers to publisher Latour and that the 'anxieties' of the signers 'aren’t our responsibility in any case'.
The board said that it had been 'gratified' by the 'outpouring of support' following the leaking of Tuesday's letter.
'But the support has often been mixed with concern that perhaps the letter will cause us to change our principles and content,' it added.
'On that point, reassurance is in order.'
'The signers report to the News editors or other parts of the business, and the News and Opinion departments operate with separate staffs and editors,' the board added.
'Both report to Publisher Almar Latour. This separation allows us to pursue stories and inform readers with independent judgment.'
It then references similar issues that have arisen in other large publications such as the New York Times, stating that it was 'probably inevitable that the wave of progressive cancel culture would arrive at the Journal, as it has at nearly every other cultural, business, academic and journalistic institution'.
The board then argued its case that the separation from the news department allows it to work independently to combat what it claims is the 'uniform progressive views' seen elsewhere.
'Most Journal reporters attempt to cover the news fairly and down the middle, and our opinion pages offer an alternative to the uniform progressive views that dominate nearly all of today’s media,' it said.
'As long as our proprietors allow us the privilege to do so, the opinion pages will continue to publish contributors who speak their minds within the tradition of vigorous, reasoned discourse,' they added.
'And these columns will continue to promote the principles of free people and free markets, which are more important than ever in what is a culture of growing progressive conformity and intolerance.'
The swipe at colleagues came after more than 280 journalists at The Wall Street Journal and its parent company Dow Jones penned an extraordinary letter to their publisher Tuesday protesting the spread of 'misinformation' in the paper's opinion section.
The group of reporters, editors and other employees called for a clearer divide between the paper's news and opinion divisions and raised alarm about the accuracy of the latter division.
'Opinion's lack of fact-checking and transparency, and its apparent disregard for evidence, undermine our readers' trust and our ability to gain credibility with sources,' the letter states.
'Many readers already cannot tell the difference between reporting and Opinion. And from those who know of the divide, reporters nonetheless face questions about the Journal's accuracy and fairness because of errors published in opinion.'
The employees cited several examples of offending articles, including a column Vice President Mike Pence wrote last month, in which he said panic over a second wave of coronavirus cases was 'overblown' and argued that the Trump administration's handling of the pandemic has been a success. . . >>
FULL ARTICLE HERE: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8555401/Wall-Street-Journal-vows-not-wilt-cancel-culture-pressure-staffers-protest-letter.html
It's ironic that the people calling for greater separation
of news and opinion at the Journal apparently don't know the
difference.
msw design
2020-07-24 14:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?

Yes, there are protesters that are misbehaving. Yes, there are individuals that are there to provoke. Yes, some protests have probably got too far. None of that addresses the core question of whether there is a righteous desire for justice in what has prompted these protests in the first place a sense of true justice.

What do you, Frank, have to say about the behavior of police and federal forces? What do you think a just society should do with statues of racists, slavers and men who talked about equality while denying the existence of women and people of color? Do you have a shred of empathy for those who imagine there could be a better world and that people of color could be treated better by their governments and police? Or do you and your conservative - and in this forum, old white male - ilk simply repeat the mantra "only the naive try to exercise their good intentions, because what we have now is too fragile to disturb."

And what about racism? Are you even willing to speak the word in a form other than the fantasy that "my life is my own, and I am disconnected from the world in such a way that I am not at all racist, and my status and privileges have no connection with this country's history of racism"?

Show us your true sense of justice, please.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 14:37:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
Do you really think that you can tell me what I should write
about? Do you really think everyone should only ever write
about THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING? What the hell are we
doing talking about music?
Post by msw design
Yes, there are protesters that are misbehaving. Yes,
there are individuals that are there to provoke. Yes, some
protests have probably got too far. None of that addresses
the core question of whether there is a righteous desire for
justice in what has prompted these protests in the first
place a sense of true justice.
Believe it or not, on all the right wing media that I look
at, there is a general recognition that there is injustice,
that protest is appropriate. There is also the opinion that
the rule of law matters and that people who are protesting
one injustice shouldn't deny justice to others.
Post by msw design
What do you, Frank, have to say about the behavior of police and federal forces?
I think that police don't always do there jobs well. A guy
working in an office can make a mistake that doesn't matter
much to anyone. A police offer making a mistake in a tense
situation can kill an innocent person. It's a big
responsibility that the current generation of police-haters
doesn't recognize. There is political oversight over the
police function. Individual police officers that commit
abuse and crimes need to be disciplined and jailed,
respectively. Training needs to be better. I have no
problem shifting some funding fro the police function to
social services, if that works. But I will not condemn an
entire institution because a small minority are abusive.








What do you think a just society should do with statues of
racists, slavers and men who talked about equality while
denying the existence of women and people of color? Do you
have a shred of empathy for those who imagine there could be
a better world and that people of color could be treated
better by their governments and police? Or do you and your
conservative - and in this forum, old white male - ilk
simply repeat the mantra "only the naive try to exercise
their good intentions, because what we have now is too
fragile to disturb."
Post by msw design
And what about racism? Are you even willing to speak the word in a form other than the fantasy that "my life is my own, and I am disconnected from the world in such a way that I am not at all racist, and my status and privileges have no connection with this country's history of racism"?
Show us your true sense of justice, please.
msw design
2020-07-24 15:48:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Do you really think that you can tell me what I should write
about? Do you really think everyone should only ever write
about THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING? What the hell are we
doing talking about music?
You want to talk about things that really matter like justice, then I get to judge your priorities. Justice isn't a question of personal taste.

I'm not saying that we must talk about the protests at all. My personal wish is that Oscar would find some channel of political sewage that suited is peculiar sense of smell and that nobody here talked about politics at all. That's when I find you, Bob and everyone here most likable.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Yes, there are protesters that are misbehaving. Yes,
there are individuals that are there to provoke. Yes, some
protests have probably got too far. None of that addresses
the core question of whether there is a righteous desire for
justice in what has prompted these protests in the first
place a sense of true justice.
Believe it or not, on all the right wing media that I look
at, there is a general recognition that there is injustice,
that protest is appropriate. There is also the opinion that
the rule of law matters and that people who are protesting
one injustice shouldn't deny justice to others.
Sounds good. What particular "justice to others" are you concerned with?
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
What do you, Frank, have to say about the behavior of police and federal forces?
I think that police don't always do there jobs well. A guy
working in an office can make a mistake that doesn't matter
much to anyone. A police offer making a mistake in a tense
situation can kill an innocent person. It's a big
responsibility that the current generation of police-haters
doesn't recognize.
That's a slur. The notion that today's "police haters" are just the latest batch of a certain kind of unreasonable person who has hate as their chief interest is simply prejudice.

There is political oversight over the
Post by Frank Berger
police function. Individual police officers that commit
abuse and crimes need to be disciplined and jailed,
respectively.
The way laws, municipalities and police culture works means that it is very hard to do this. People are angry because it doesn't happen as often as it should.

Training needs to be better. I have no
Post by Frank Berger
problem shifting some funding for the police function to
social services, if that works. But I will not condemn an
entire institution because a small minority are abusive.
That's your belief right there, that "a small minority are abusive." You don't know, and I don't know. The people who interact with police are the ones who know. When I listen to them, I get a sense that police culture in this country is a problem, period. And police reactions to these protests have demonstrated the problem. Trump's deployment of federal troops are a grotesque provocation and an escalation of the problem.

That's what matters.

But, hey, if I thought bad policing was just a case of a few bad apples, that would really change the way I felt about all of this. Keep things the same, cops are good people, the law must always be followed. The only good protesters are non-violent. Property must be respected.

In the end, that is the fantasy world of someone who already has power.

Nothing to say about racism?
Post by Frank Berger
What do you think a just society should do with statues of
racists, slavers and men who talked about equality while
denying the existence of women and people of color? Do you
have a shred of empathy for those who imagine there could be
a better world and that people of color could be treated
better by their governments and police? Or do you and your
conservative - and in this forum, old white male - ilk
simply repeat the mantra "only the naive try to exercise
their good intentions, because what we have now is too
fragile to disturb."
Post by msw design
And what about racism? Are you even willing to speak the word in a form other than the fantasy that "my life is my own, and I am disconnected from the world in such a way that I am not at all racist, and my status and privileges have no connection with this country's history of racism"?
Show us your true sense of justice, please.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 16:39:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
Do you really think that you can tell me what I should write
about? Do you really think everyone should only ever write
about THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING? What the hell are we
doing talking about music?
You want to talk about things that really matter like justice, then I get to judge your priorities. Justice isn't a question of personal taste.
But it is. Yours.
Post by msw design
I'm not saying that we must talk about the protests at all. My personal wish is that Oscar would find some channel of political sewage that suited is peculiar sense of smell and that nobody here talked about politics at all. That's when I find you, Bob and everyone here most likable.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Yes, there are protesters that are misbehaving. Yes,
there are individuals that are there to provoke. Yes, some
protests have probably got too far. None of that addresses
the core question of whether there is a righteous desire for
justice in what has prompted these protests in the first
place a sense of true justice.
Believe it or not, on all the right wing media that I look
at, there is a general recognition that there is injustice,
that protest is appropriate. There is also the opinion that
the rule of law matters and that people who are protesting
one injustice shouldn't deny justice to others.
Sounds good. What particular "justice to others" are you concerned with?
I won't honor that with a reply.
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
What do you, Frank, have to say about the behavior of police and federal forces?
I think that police don't always do there jobs well. A guy
working in an office can make a mistake that doesn't matter
much to anyone. A police offer making a mistake in a tense
situation can kill an innocent person. It's a big
responsibility that the current generation of police-haters
doesn't recognize.
That's a slur. The notion that today's "police haters" are just the latest batch of a certain kind of unreasonable person who has hate as their chief interest is simply prejudice.
I didn't say that hate is their chief interest. You made
that up.
Post by msw design
There is political oversight over the
Post by Frank Berger
police function. Individual police officers that commit
abuse and crimes need to be disciplined and jailed,
respectively.
The way laws, municipalities and police culture works means that it is very hard to do this. People are angry because it doesn't happen as often as it should.
Yep. Well, technically, they are angry because they think
it doesn't happen as often as it should. How much systemic
"error" is allowed. Can the socially optimal amount of
police error/brutality be zero? How many resources do we
devote to making the police function perfect, or more perfect?
Post by msw design
Training needs to be better. I have no
Post by Frank Berger
problem shifting some funding for the police function to
social services, if that works. But I will not condemn an
entire institution because a small minority are abusive.
That's your belief right there, that "a small minority are abusive." You don't know, and I don't know.
Oh, you know.


The people who interact with police are the ones who know.
When I listen to them, I get a sense that police culture in
this country is a problem, period.

Medical doctor culture is a problem, too. Try to get one to
testify against another.


And police reactions to these protests have demonstrated the
problem. Trump's deployment of federal troops are a
grotesque provocation and an escalation of the problem.
Post by msw design
That's what matters.
But, hey, if I thought bad policing was just a case of a few bad apples, that would really change the way I felt about all of this. Keep things the same, cops are good people, the law must always be followed. The only good protesters are non-violent. Property must be respected.
In the end, that is the fantasy world of someone who already has power.
Nothing to say about racism?
Post by Frank Berger
What do you think a just society should do with statues of
racists, slavers and men who talked about equality while
denying the existence of women and people of color? Do you
have a shred of empathy for those who imagine there could be
a better world and that people of color could be treated
better by their governments and police? Or do you and your
conservative - and in this forum, old white male - ilk
simply repeat the mantra "only the naive try to exercise
their good intentions, because what we have now is too
fragile to disturb."
Post by msw design
And what about racism? Are you even willing to speak the word in a form other than the fantasy that "my life is my own, and I am disconnected from the world in such a way that I am not at all racist, and my status and privileges have no connection with this country's history of racism"?
Show us your true sense of justice, please.
It's so clear that you are just trying to pick a fight, that
it's actually funny.
msw design
2020-07-24 17:49:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
Do you really think that you can tell me what I should write
about? Do you really think everyone should only ever write
about THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING? What the hell are we
doing talking about music?
You want to talk about things that really matter like justice, then I get to judge your priorities. Justice isn't a question of personal taste.
But it is. Yours.
Weak stuff, Frank. It is impossible to talk about justice and think that there can be more than one kind. "Your" justice is something that applies to everyone. And therefore, there is room to say that that you are wrong. If you can't handle it, then don't talk about it.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
Believe it or not, on all the right wing media that I look
at, there is a general recognition that there is injustice,
that protest is appropriate. There is also the opinion that
the rule of law matters and that people who are protesting
one injustice shouldn't deny justice to others.
Sounds good. What particular "justice to others" are you concerned with?
I won't honor that with a reply.
Your choice.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
What do you, Frank, have to say about the behavior of police and federal forces?
I think that police don't always do there jobs well. A guy
working in an office can make a mistake that doesn't matter
much to anyone. A police offer making a mistake in a tense
situation can kill an innocent person. It's a big
responsibility that the current generation of police-haters
doesn't recognize.
That's a slur. The notion that today's "police haters" are just the latest batch of a certain kind of unreasonable person who has hate as their chief interest is simply prejudice.
I didn't say that hate is their chief interest. You made
that up.
You're the one with the chance to say that the phrase "the current generation of police-haters" is imprecise (it's also inflammatory and prejudiced, but I know you wouldn't say that), but no. I'm sooooo sorry I misunderstood you.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
The way laws, municipalities and police culture works means that it is very hard to do this. People are angry because it doesn't happen as often as it should.
Yep. Well, technically, they are angry because they think
it doesn't happen as often as it should. How much systemic
"error" is allowed. Can the socially optimal amount of
police error/brutality be zero? How many resources do we
devote to making the police function perfect, or more perfect?
Is this your "it's too complicated, so trying is pointless" argument?
Post by Frank Berger
Post by msw design
Training needs to be better. I have no
Post by Frank Berger
problem shifting some funding for the police function to
social services, if that works. But I will not condemn an
entire institution because a small minority are abusive.
That's your belief right there, that "a small minority are abusive." You don't know, and I don't know.
Oh, you know.
Nope, Frank. Saying I'm just as biased as you doesn't get you off the hook. You're the one who thinks a man with a badge is more likely than not to be a "good person". I think it makes him likely to become like everyone around him with a badge, and I think those people should be judged by their speech, and their actions. And I will do my best to not judge them for the people they elect as their union leaders.
Post by Frank Berger
It's so clear that you are just trying to pick a fight, that
it's actually funny.
See that some things you say are worth combating. Thinking that shouldn't be the case is part of your problem.
b***@inquirer.com
2020-07-24 15:57:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
That's a specific question not directed at me. But I'll answer it generally. I consider the extent to which biased coverage on all sides (but the one side comes mainly from a single source while it's very spread out on the other side) to be one of the most serious problems facing the country in recent years because the media has repeatedly created false impressions among large segments of the public about very serious issues. That creates all kinds of problems.

For one example, large swaths of the public seem to be under the impression that the police in this country shoot innocent Black people, and ONLY Black people, at the drop of a hat. They keep statistics on police shootings and any examination of the statistics from recent years will show you that that's not even close to the case. Yet the impression exists among much of the public and that's largely because of how the media covers the issue.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 16:44:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@inquirer.com
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
That's a specific question not directed at me. But I'll answer it generally. I consider the extent to which biased coverage on all sides (but the one side comes mainly from a single source while it's very spread out on the other side) to be one of the most serious problems facing the country in recent years because the media has repeatedly created false impressions among large segments of the public about very serious issues. That creates all kinds of problems.
For one example, large swaths of the public seem to be under the impression that the police in this country shoot innocent Black people, and ONLY Black people, at the drop of a hat. They keep statistics on police shootings and any examination of the statistics from recent years will show you that that's not even close to the case. Yet the impression exists among much of the public and that's largely because of how the media covers the issue.
Now you're in trouble.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 16:19:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
That's a specific question not directed at me. But I'll answer it generally. I consider the extent to which biased coverage on all sides (but the one side comes mainly from a single source while it's very spread out on the other side) to be one of the most serious problems facing the country in recent years because the media has repeatedly created false impressions among large segments of the public about very serious issues. That creates all kinds of problems.

For one example, large swaths of the public seem to be under the impression that the police in this country shoot innocent Black people, and ONLY Black people, at the drop of a hat. They keep statistics on police shootings and any examination of the statistics from recent years will show you that that's not even close to the case. Yet the impression exists among much of the public and that's largely because of how the media covers the issue.
msw design
2020-07-24 16:30:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@inquirer.com
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
That's a specific question not directed at me. But I'll answer it generally. I consider the extent to which biased coverage on all sides (but the one side comes mainly from a single source while it's very spread out on the other side) to be one of the most serious problems facing the country in recent years because the media has repeatedly created false impressions among large segments of the public about very serious issues. That creates all kinds of problems.
For one example, large swaths of the public seem to be under the impression that the police in this country shoot innocent Black people, and ONLY Black people, at the drop of a hat. They keep statistics on police shootings and any examination of the statistics from recent years will show you that that's not even close to the case. Yet the impression exists among much of the public and that's largely because of how the media covers the issue.
Post by msw design
Post by Frank Berger
This statement reveals that you only care about one agenda;
that you have no sense of true justice. The idea that's OK
for major media to ignore the excesses associated with BLM
is troubling. One may as well ignore the dark side of
Columbus, Washington, Lee, etc. It's all the same.
So you think your personal audit of mainstream media coverage is total enough to demand justice in the form of more complete coverage of the excesses of - let me give you a little credit - both sides? Maybe you are actually right. Maybe it is true that mainstream media is giving the protesters a pass. Do you really think this is the biggest problem connected to these protests?
That's a specific question not directed at me. But I'll answer it generally. I consider the extent to which biased coverage on all sides (but the one side comes mainly from a single source while it's very spread out on the other side) to be one of the most serious problems facing the country in recent years because the media has repeatedly created false impressions among large segments of the public about very serious issues. That creates all kinds of problems.
For one example, large swaths of the public seem to be under the impression that the police in this country shoot innocent Black people, and ONLY Black people, at the drop of a hat. They keep statistics on police shootings and any examination of the statistics from recent years will show you that that's not even close to the case. Yet the impression exists among much of the public and that's largely because of how the media covers the issue.
That sounds almost sensible, but you are not going to mention at all that black men are shot and killed at rates far higher than whites? Rates, not total number. That's what matters. The problems of police lethality are felt far more in black communities than in white. There's a whole set of objective facts about this can can't be wiped away by some "unfairness besets all sides" argument. Historically, this was simply taken for granted. That people are now protesting this fact and it is getting coverage is a good thing. And if it improves policing in general, great. But trying to point out that white people get killed, too, shows disengagement from facts.

Your statement that "it is all very spread out on the other side" is unclear and unhelpful. If you look at the mechanics of how Fox works- and how other right-wing media outlets work, there is no equivalent on the left. Jeff Bezos is not a liberal Rupert Murdoch. Liberals DO NOT have the power to create their own news ecosystem the way conservatives to. That is a fact. The right-wing media universe is often so disconnected from reality that it appears mainstream media is an equal and opposite force. It isn't.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 17:05:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
That sounds almost sensible, but you are not going to mention at all that black men are shot and killed at rates far higher than whites? Rates, not total number. That's what matters. The problems of police lethality are felt far more in black communities than in white. There's a whole set of objective facts about this can can't be wiped away by some "unfairness besets all sides" argument. Historically, this was simply taken for granted. That people are now protesting this fact and it is getting coverage is a good thing. And if it improves policing in general, great. But trying to point out that white people get killed, too, shows disengagement from facts.
Are you comparing the rates of those shot by the police to the general racial makeup of the population? That response unfailingly comes from those on the Left when I or anyone else mentions that the police shoot more unarmed whites than blacks.

It's a nonsensical response. The police don't come into contact with the entire population at the same rate. Studies (although it's so common sense that it shouldn't take a study) on the matter show that most life-and-death situations for police occur in high crime areas. Now you can be SO politically correct that you refuse to acknowledge that in Chicago and some other major cities, the overwhelming majority of violent crime occurs in neighborhoods primarily populated by minorities, mainly Blacks.

Do you think there is an equal chance that an officer will be in a situation where he or she draws and uses a gun in the most dangerous parts of the South Side of Chicago and in some neighborhood occupied primarily by elderly Jews?

I consider it a tragedy for the mostly innocent Blacks who just want to live their lives without being afraid to let their kids go outside. But defunding the police or making them so afraid to do anything that the criminals just smile and go about their business isn't going to make the situation better for the people who are afraid to go outside.
Post by msw design
Your statement that "it is all very spread out on the other side" is unclear and unhelpful. If you look at the mechanics of how Fox works- and how other right-wing media outlets work, there is no equivalent on the left. Jeff Bezos is not a liberal Rupert Murdoch. Liberals DO NOT have the power to create their own news ecosystem the way conservatives to. That is a fact. The right-wing media universe is often so disconnected from reality that it appears mainstream media <is an equal and opposite force. It isn't.
We'll have to agree to disagree that Fox and other Right Wing news outlets are a greater danger to the country than the outlets that push Left Wing narratives and don't report stories that fail to fit in with those narratives.

I work in the media. I have a pretty good idea of how a liberal news outlet works.
Henk vT
2020-07-24 08:13:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Regarding using federal law enforcemnt, the law clearly
allow this to protect Federal property and if local police
are not doing it, the feds have to do it. However, the
scope of federal action here is limited. I do not support
the feds coming in (and I don't care which branch) to engage
in general law enforcement that the local police are
supposed to do. Certainly not without the invitation of
local authority (which I think means governors). If they
come in to protect federal property, given the hostility
towards them, I think it's reasonable that they not be
indentifiable by name. Those federal officers in Portland
had numbers for identification.
Quite a balanced view. I'm surprised. Though I might be doing Frank an injustice.

Henk
O***@aol.com
2020-07-24 08:30:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I concur with Frank’s view. It’s fair and balanced and unafraid.
Henk vT
2020-07-24 13:34:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by O***@aol.com
I concur with Frank’s view. It’s fair and balanced and unafraid.
An odd combination: fair, balanced and unafraid. A sign of the times?

Henk
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 14:11:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by O***@aol.com
I concur with Frank’s view. It’s fair and balanced and unafraid.
But I am afraid. Very afraid. About the world my 14
grandchildren are growing up in.
Bob Harper
2020-07-24 15:18:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by O***@aol.com
I concur with Frank’s view. It’s fair and balanced and unafraid.
Thirded. The hysteria coming from the likes of Ted Wheeler and Kate
Brown, not to mention the 'woke' of Portland, is extraordinarily
disheartening.

Bob Harper
msw design
2020-07-24 15:52:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by O***@aol.com
I concur with Frank’s view. It’s fair and balanced and unafraid.
Thirded. The hysteria coming from the likes of Ted Wheeler and Kate
Brown, not to mention the 'woke' of Portland, is extraordinarily
disheartening.
Bob Harper
Unwoke Harper speaks again for power and privilege, Fox and his friends.
Frank Berger
2020-07-24 14:07:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Frank Berger
Regarding using federal law enforcemnt, the law clearly
allow this to protect Federal property and if local police
are not doing it, the feds have to do it. However, the
scope of federal action here is limited. I do not support
the feds coming in (and I don't care which branch) to engage
in general law enforcement that the local police are
supposed to do. Certainly not without the invitation of
local authority (which I think means governors). If they
come in to protect federal property, given the hostility
towards them, I think it's reasonable that they not be
indentifiable by name. Those federal officers in Portland
had numbers for identification.
Quite a balanced view. I'm surprised. Though I might be doing Frank an injustice.
Henk
Thanks. I think.
msw design
2020-07-24 01:07:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
I don't watch TV news, but I do check in to Fox's web site to see what they are covering, PRECISELY because I know those other sources you cited won't do it. We've reached the point where all media outlets have a point of view. At least Fox is honest about its point of view. People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks. I frequently bring up points citing recent events when disagreeing with liberals and they have no idea of what I'm talking about because they only get their news from the sort of people who drove Bari Weiss and Andrew Sullivan out out of their jobs.
Fox may be more honest about its point of view, but that doesn't make them honest in what and how they report. In this case you have demonstrated in gaudy fashion that you don't particularly have a good sense of what should be considered true, but instead your foolish faith that if Fox says it, you can repeat it.

There is a reason people don't know what you are talking about- because you are spewing political propaganda and think it is the truth. Mind you, sometimes Fox may have a good story to report- I'm happy to take on any Fox "story" and measure whether there a verifiable facts. But Fox is the least reliable major news source when it comes to its concerns with facts. And for you to say that "all of them do it" is absolute bullshit. The New York Times wrote dozens of stories about Hillary's email servers, far more than it did about numerous Trump controversies. The Clinton Foundation got more bad press than the criminal Trump Foundation, too. That's not the behavior of "liberal" media, but of mainstream media that deals with reporting as an institution with ethical rules that go above party. That's not Fox.

And I couldn't give a flip about entitled, self important Andrew Sullivan or Bari "my bullying is fine, but look what has been done to me" Weiss. If these are the best martyrs conservatives can offer, you need help. It is not the obligation of ANY publication to employ people who don't fit well with its mission. Fox is the near definition of such selectivity.
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 01:15:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by Phl Maestro
I don't watch TV news, but I do check in to Fox's web site to see what they are covering, PRECISELY because I know those other sources you cited won't do it. We've reached the point where all media outlets have a point of view. At least Fox is honest about its point of view. People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks. I frequently bring up points citing recent events when disagreeing with liberals and they have no idea of what I'm talking about because they only get their news from the sort of people who drove Bari Weiss and Andrew Sullivan out out of their jobs.
Fox may be more honest about its point of view, but that doesn't make them honest in what and how they report. In this case you have demonstrated in gaudy fashion that you don't particularly have a good sense of what should be considered true, but instead your foolish faith that if Fox says it, you can repeat it.
There is a reason people don't know what you are talking about- because you are spewing political propaganda and think it is the truth. Mind you, sometimes Fox may have a good story to report- I'm happy to take on any Fox "story" and measure whether there a verifiable facts. But Fox is the least reliable major news source when it comes to its concerns with facts. And for you to say that "all of them do it" is absolute bullshit. The New York Times wrote dozens of stories about Hillary's email servers, far more than it did about numerous Trump controversies. The Clinton Foundation got more bad press than the criminal Trump Foundation, too. That's not the behavior of "liberal" media, but of mainstream media that deals with reporting as an institution with ethical rules that go above party. That's not Fox.
And I couldn't give a flip about entitled, self important Andrew Sullivan or Bari "my bullying is fine, but look what has been done to me" Weiss. If these are the best martyrs conservatives can offer, you need help. It is not the obligation of ANY publication to employ people who don't fit well with its mission. Fox is the near definition of such selectivity.
CNN wouldn't even break away from something to do with Russia-Trump that turned out to be a completely false story to carry the first news conference in which Kim took questions from Western reporters. You probably can count the number of people who are right of center in most of the news outlets you rely on on the fingers of one hand. They are like test cases on confirmation bias.

The best thing anyone can do to keep well-informed on national issues is probably to check out Real Clear Politics and Real Clear World at least a couple times a day. You'll get the full gamut, including New York Times and Washington Post stories. Obviously, I don't care if you only want to get the news that confirms your biases. That's your business.
Todd Michel McComb
2020-07-24 01:19:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
People tune into them because they don't want their news exclusively
from the view point of liberals and left wingers, which is what
they'll get if they only get their news from the Times, Post, CNN,
MSNBC and the major networks.
The notion that the media mouthpieces of megacorps & billionaires
could be in any way "leftist" is so ridiculous, it must have
originated in that most delusional of countries, the USA.... Always
amazes me, no matter how many times I see people repeat it....
Oscar
2020-07-24 01:25:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
The notion that the media mouthpieces of megacorps & billionaires
could be in any way "leftist" is so ridiculous, it must have
originated in that most delusional of countries, the USA.... Always
amazes me, no matter how many times I see people repeat it....
Junior Sulzberger of the N.Y. Times—All The News That's Fit To Slant—is so 'left' he should change his name to Leftkowitz. Or Rosenberg. One or the other.
Todd Michel McComb
2020-07-24 01:36:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Junior Sulzberger of the N.Y. Times "All The News That's Fit To
Slant" is so 'left' he should change his name to Leftkowitz. Or
Rosenberg. One or the other.
Everyone loves a good ethnic joke, I'm sure. NYT reads like a rich
guy rag to me. Used to do the crossword regularly with a late
friend, though... so I did appreciate that part of one page.
Oscar
2020-07-24 01:49:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Everyone loves a good ethnic joke, I'm sure. NYT reads like a rich
guy rag to me. Used to do the crossword regularly with a late
friend, though... so I did appreciate that part of one page.
Well, being that I am Jewish and all—mom's side!—I can make that joke and you can only sit and wish you could be so privileged as I. Or is it me? Wish I could ask the aforementioned Rebecca Walkowitz, English Department chair at Rutgers University—never know what the 'new rules' will be tomorrow!
Oscar
2020-07-24 01:13:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in
Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received.
It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
Bravo on the capitalization of 'B' in Black, but the 'a' in antifa is lower-case. Also, 'w' in white—as in, "Oh, you're dating a white guy?"—is lower-case as well. That's the lesson for today. Dismissed.


<< Rutgers English Department to deemphasize traditional grammar ‘in solidarity with Black Lives Matter’
By Alex Frank
July 20, 2020

The English Department at Rutgers University recently announced a list of “anti-racist” directives and initiatives for the upcoming fall and spring semesters, including an effort to deemphasize traditional grammar rules.

The initiatives were spelled out by Rebecca Walkowitz, the English Department chair at Rutgers University, and sent to faculty, staff and students in an email, a copy of which was obtained by The College Fix.

Walkowitz sent the email on “Juneteenth,” which celebrates the commemoration of emancipation from slavery in the United States.

Titled “Department actions in solidarity with Black Lives Matter,” the email states that the ongoing and future initiatives that the English Department has planned are a “way to contribute to the eradication of systemic inequities facing black, indigenous, and people of color.”

One of the initiatives is described as “incorporating ‘critical grammar’ into our pedagogy.”

It is listed as one of the efforts for Rutgers’ Graduate Writing Program, which “serves graduate students across the Rutgers community. The GWP’s mission is to support graduate students of all disciplines in their current and future writing goals, from coursework papers to scholarly articles and dissertations,” according to its website.

Under a so-called critical grammar pedagogy, “This approach challenges the familiar dogma that writing instruction should limit emphasis on grammar/sentence-level issues so as to not put students from multilingual, non-standard ‘academic’ English backgrounds at a disadvantage,” the email states.

“Instead, it encourages students to develop a critical awareness of the variety of choices available to them w/ regard to micro-level issues in order to empower them and equip them to push against biases based on ‘written’ accents.” >>

FULL ARTICLE HERE: https://www.thecollegefix.com/rutgers-english-department-to-deemphasize-traditional-grammar-in-solidarity-with-black-lives-matter/
p***@yahoo.com
2020-07-24 01:16:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Oscar
Post by Phl Maestro
I just read about one Black retired marine who lives within a block of the epicenter of what's going on in
Portland. He went out to hold up an American flag. I'm sure you can imagine the treatment he received.
It ended with someone from Antifa showing a video of his home to let him know they are keeping tabs on him.
Bravo on the capitalization of 'B' in Black, but the 'a' in antifa is lower-case. Also, 'w' in white—as in, "Oh, you're dating a white guy?"—is lower-case as well. That's the lesson for today. Dismissed.
Taking a bow.
wkasimer
2020-07-23 18:22:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them. That's what we've seen, and that's what we will see. And anyone who imagines there is a goal here (and real issues looking to be solved) besides escalation and domination is too invested in their political identity to see clearly.
So what's your solution? Let Portland burn to the ground?
msw design
2020-07-23 22:58:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by msw design
These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them. That's what we've seen, and that's what we will see. And anyone who imagines there is a goal here (and real issues looking to be solved) besides escalation and domination is too invested in their political identity to see clearly.
So what's your solution? Let Portland burn to the ground?
Portland isn't on fire. Protests are localized and not a problem for most residents. Would all the moms come out if there were real anarchy in the streets?

It's your fantasy that the choice is between extralegal military forces and the city "burning to the ground". I only pray that actual leaders have a bit more nuanced in their judgement than you are.
wkasimer
2020-07-24 13:10:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by msw design
Post by wkasimer
Post by msw design
These guys are going to follow the protests, stake their turf, and bring violence and escalation to those who don't submit to them. That's what we've seen, and that's what we will see. And anyone who imagines there is a goal here (and real issues looking to be solved) besides escalation and domination is too invested in their political identity to see clearly.
So what's your solution? Let Portland burn to the ground?
Portland isn't on fire. Protests are localized and not a problem for most residents. Would all the moms come out if there were real anarchy in the streets?
It's your fantasy that the choice is between extralegal military forces and the city "burning to the ground". I only pray that actual leaders have a bit more nuanced in their judgement than you are.
You haven't answered my question - what's your solution? Not what you wouldn't do - what *would* you do?
Bob Harper
2020-07-23 20:09:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
I'd say you're lacking a little context.
Just in Chicago, since Friday, there have been over 100 people shot (71 over the weekend, 15 leaving a funeral a couple nights ago and that doesn't take a couple other days into account, so I"m sure it's comfortably over 100). Police protecting public property we set upon by a mob who injured I think 20-25 of them. There is a gang of 10-17 year olds terrifying one section of the city with a series of car-jackings.
What is your case for thinking that Chicago is handling this situation on its own and doesn't need outside help?
Even Mayor Lightfoot believes they can help, according to news reports.

Bob Harper
Gerard
2020-07-23 18:53:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Gerard" wrote in message news:rfbelh$1fl$***@gioia.aioe.org...

Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
----------------------------------------------------------------

A post by Donald Trump's official Facebook account purports to show violence
in the US but is in fact of an event in another country.

The advert shows one image of Mr Trump in a calm setting talking to police
officers beside another of a security official being surrounded by
protesters, saying: "Public safety vs chaos and violence".

However, the image is a photo from a pro-democracy protest in Ukraine in
2014.

Facebook have told the BBC they won't be taking any action against the post
but gave no further comment.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53500610?fbclid=IwAR0Yl5Rp96YrVKFePx695JPBnWuyH5fIsg1POVw2P8TobNTZOAt8Qcq1IhY
Andy Evans
2020-07-23 19:00:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
How does the European term "socialism" translate to the US " leftist totalitarianism"?
Raymond Hall
2020-07-23 22:23:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
-How does the European term "socialism" translate to the US " leftist totalitarianism"?

You are in the wrong thread to expect an answer Andy. Right wing whackos might throw a term like 'delusional' at you, but the reality is a 180 deg. offset. The leader of the FREE world is now and has been for 4 years Angela Merkel. The nutjob posts in this thread are an indication of a totalitarianism the good old USSR threw away many moons ago.

Ray Hall, Taree
Andy Evans
2020-07-24 07:31:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
-How does the European term "socialism" translate to the US " leftist totalitarianism"?
You are in the wrong thread to expect an answer Andy. Right wing whackos might throw a term like 'delusional' at you, but the reality is a 180 deg. offset. The leader of the FREE world is now and has been for 4 years Angela Merkel. The nutjob posts in this thread are an indication of a totalitarianism the good old USSR threw away many moons ago.
Ray Hall, Taree
I couldn't agree more, Ray. Angela Merkel is the best current politician and leader by miles. She's a beacon of what inspired and science-backed leadership ought to be like. Most of the international leaders don't even reach her ankles. This pandemic has exposed how shallow and ineffectual they are, and that's without even starting on multiple instances of major corruption.
O***@aol.com
2020-07-24 08:07:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Germans receive a free ride on the backs of the beneficent American taxpayer with which they elect not to “pay their fair share” re N.A.T.O. dues (a very un-German thing to do), but spend it on their expansive social welfare programming. East German Merkel knows who the suckers are—and she thinks they’re deplorable in spite of her hand extended, palm up.
u***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 23:06:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
'What's good for General Motors is good for the country' and 'America is not a country it's a business
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-23 23:24:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
Untergang?

Trumpdammerung?:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics/donald-trump-mask-coronavirus/index.html
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 01:37:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Now already, 4 months before he loses the elections, Trump - who sees the
world (including political opponents) as a set of enemies - sends the SS to
Democrat states and cities. A kind of civil war will give him reason for
having no elections at all, for a coup.
(Well, he said "Trump 4ever" after all.)
Trump's Untergang?

Trumpdammerung?

According to this:

- The opera, Twilight of the gods, details the fall and destruction of the gods and their fortress Valhalla, built up and finally annihilated by Wotan’s hubris, arrogance, greed and selfishness.

http://www.mirlibooks.com/blog/twilight-of-the-gods-living-with-deadly-infectious-disease

https://madison.com/news/national/nieces-book-accuses-trump-of-hubris-and-willful-ignorance/article_db0b694f-8217-5777-9e72-1ea1e2d36c23.html
Loading...