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Repost: Prokofiev 'Gypsy Fantasy' Op 127: a mystery
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Russ (not Martha)
2018-11-03 19:30:11 UTC
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Hi all

Apologies for the repost! Somehow this morning my rcmr connection and the above thread got eaten.

To reprise:

There is a YouTube audio . . .



. . . purportedly Neeme Järvi and the Philharmonia Orch doing the Prokofiev "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127.

The graphics show the Chandos CD booklet cover for CHAN 9095, which contains the "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the Revolution" and excerpts from the "Stone Flower" ballet.

But I own the CD, and "Gypsy Fantasy" absolutely ain't on it.

Järvi has recorded the Prologue and some Waltzes from "The Stone Flower" Ballet, Op 118 as well as the "Wedding Suite" Op 126 from the same ballet (on different CDs).

But I find NO listing for Järvi/Philh doing "Gypsy Fantasy" online or in my own collection of catalogs.

Wondered if possibly the YouTube attribution was in error, and that the performance was in fact the Hans Schwieger / Kansas City Phil recording, which used to be on a Urania LP and has been reissued on CD in stereo. The timing difference is too great, even allowing for dead space at the end of a track.

There used to be a great Prokofiev discussion group, www.group.org, which would have been the best place to post this query, but alas, it disappeared around 2012. One of my correspondents wrote me that Sigi Sorensen who maintained the site apparently just got tired of messing with it.

So can anyone say where this recording supposedly by Järvi comes from?

Russ (not Martha)
Gerard
2018-11-03 21:53:32 UTC
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Post by Russ (not Martha)
Hi all
Apologies for the repost! Somehow this morning my rcmr connection and the above thread got eaten.
There is a YouTube audio . . .
http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM
. . . purportedly Neeme Järvi and the Philharmonia Orch doing the Prokofiev "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127.
The graphics show the Chandos CD booklet cover for CHAN 9095, which contains the "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the Revolution" and excerpts from the "Stone Flower" ballet.
But I own the CD, and "Gypsy Fantasy" absolutely ain't on it.
Järvi has recorded the Prologue and some Waltzes from "The Stone Flower" Ballet, Op 118 as well as the "Wedding Suite" Op 126 from the same ballet (on different CDs).
But I find NO listing for Järvi/Philh doing "Gypsy Fantasy" online or in my own collection of catalogs.
Wondered if possibly the YouTube attribution was in error, and that the performance was in fact the Hans Schwieger / Kansas City Phil recording, which used to be on a Urania LP and has been reissued on CD in stereo. The timing difference is too great, even allowing for dead space at the end of a track.
There used to be a great Prokofiev discussion group, www.group.org, which would have been the best place to post this query, but alas, it disappeared around 2012. One of my correspondents wrote me that Sigi Sorensen who maintained the site apparently just got tired of messing with it.
So can anyone say where this recording supposedly by Järvi comes from?
Russ (not Martha)
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Russ (not Martha)
2018-11-03 23:09:00 UTC
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Post by Gerard
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Yes, I saw that track on the Chandos website. The "Gypsy Dance" runs just under 3 minutes.

The http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM link is for the "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, a separate piece in several episodes that runs about 8 minutes. This is the one for which I can find no catalog entry.

Russ (not Martha)
Gerard
2018-11-04 16:10:48 UTC
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Post by Russ (not Martha)
Post by Gerard
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Yes, I saw that track on the Chandos website. The "Gypsy Dance" runs just under 3 minutes.
The http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM link is for the "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, a separate piece in several episodes that runs about 8 minutes. This is the one for which I can find no catalog entry.
Russ (not Martha)
The Youtube post contains the music of 3 tracks of the CD:
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42

So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Russ (not Martha)
2018-11-04 18:02:06 UTC
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Post by Gerard
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42
So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Thank you so much, Gerard! In Lt. Columbo's immortal phrase: "That explains it."

You are absolutely correct; these three numbers do indeed comprise the "Gypsy Fantasy."

I was thrown off by YouTube's description of the Järvi recording as "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, and assumed that it was some sort of expansion of the material heard in the three ballet excerpts you pointed out. Having heard what is described as "Op 127" more frequently than I hear the full ballet, I was probably expecting something of the order the suites from "Romeo & Juliet" or "Cinderella" in which the music from the original ballets is developed and varied to a considerable extent.

In this instance, Prokofiev simply lifted some connected dance sequences from the ballet and published them with a new opus number.

I have read, and can well believe, that Prokofiev had what we would now term a Bucket List project wherein he wanted to have at least as many opus numbers to his credit as Beethoven! So the "Gypsy Fantasy" (as well as a "Ural Fantasy" Op 128) served to pad the list, and in fact there are 3 preassigned opus numbers for works on which he was not able even to begin work: Op 129 (Stone Flower: Mistress of Copper Mountain Suite), Op 136 (3-movt revision of the 2nd Symphony), and Op 138 (Piano Sonata No. 11).

Thank you again for the clarification.

Russ (not Martha)
Gerard
2018-11-04 21:04:41 UTC
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Post by Russ (not Martha)
Post by Gerard
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42
So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Thank you so much, Gerard! In Lt. Columbo's immortal phrase: "That explains it."
You are absolutely correct; these three numbers do indeed comprise the "Gypsy Fantasy."
I was thrown off by YouTube's description of the Järvi recording as "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, and assumed that it was some sort of expansion of the material heard in the three ballet excerpts you pointed out. Having heard what is described as "Op 127" more frequently than I hear the full ballet, I was probably expecting something of the order the suites from "Romeo & Juliet" or "Cinderella" in which the music from the original ballets is developed and varied to a considerable extent.
In this instance, Prokofiev simply lifted some connected dance sequences from the ballet and published them with a new opus number.
I have read, and can well believe, that Prokofiev had what we would now term a Bucket List project wherein he wanted to have at least as many opus numbers to his credit as Beethoven! So the "Gypsy Fantasy" (as well as a "Ural Fantasy" Op 128) served to pad the list, and in fact there are 3 preassigned opus numbers for works on which he was not able even to begin work: Op 129 (Stone Flower: Mistress of Copper Mountain Suite), Op 136 (3-movt revision of the 2nd Symphony), and Op 138 (Piano Sonata No. 11).
Thank you again for the clarification.
Russ (not Martha)
Glad that I could help (a Prokofiev fan, but not knowing this music at all, still looking for "my copy" of a recording of the Stone Flower - I thought I have one by Jurowski somewhere).
Jerry
2018-11-04 18:09:06 UTC
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Post by Gerard
Post by Russ (not Martha)
Post by Gerard
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Yes, I saw that track on the Chandos website. The "Gypsy Dance" runs just under 3 minutes.
The http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM link is for the "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, a separate piece in several episodes that runs about 8 minutes. This is the one for which I can find no catalog entry.
Russ (not Martha)
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42
So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Agreed.

The Schweiger/Kansas City "Gypsy Fantasia" (7:28) is equivalent
to the first three numbers of Tableau 7 in the Rozhdesvensky/Bolshoi
complete recording of "Stone Flower" (2:49; 1:41; 3:24).

Notes from the Schweiger recording on Urania claim that
Prokofiev "fashioned .... no less than four symphonic suites"
from the ballet that the 1st edition of New Groves lists as:

Op. 126 - Wedding Suite
Op. 127 - Gypsy Fantasy (unpublished)
Op. 128 - Urals Rhapsody (unpublished)
Op. 129 - Lord of the Copper Mountain (unrealised)

Jerry
Frank Berger
2018-11-04 18:25:54 UTC
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Post by Jerry
Post by Gerard
Post by Russ (not Martha)
Post by Gerard
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Yes, I saw that track on the Chandos website. The "Gypsy Dance" runs just under 3 minutes.
The http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM link is for the "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, a separate piece in several episodes that runs about 8 minutes. This is the one for which I can find no catalog entry.
Russ (not Martha)
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42
So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Agreed.
The Schweiger/Kansas City "Gypsy Fantasia" (7:28) is equivalent
to the first three numbers of Tableau 7 in the Rozhdesvensky/Bolshoi
complete recording of "Stone Flower" (2:49; 1:41; 3:24).
Notes from the Schweiger recording on Urania claim that
Prokofiev "fashioned .... no less than four symphonic suites"
Op. 126 - Wedding Suite
Op. 127 - Gypsy Fantasy (unpublished)
Op. 128 - Urals Rhapsody (unpublished)
Op. 129 - Lord of the Copper Mountain (unrealised)
Jerry
Are the three numbers as played as part of the entire ballet identical
when played separately as op. 127?
Jerry
2018-11-04 19:24:06 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Jerry
Post by Gerard
Post by Russ (not Martha)
Post by Gerard
I found 2 identical items on the Chandos website, both with a "Gipsy Dance" - track 16. Same music as on the Youtube.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209095
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010537
Yes, I saw that track on the Chandos website. The "Gypsy Dance" runs just under 3 minutes.
The http://youtu.be/qhCesoY39RM link is for the "Gypsy Fantasy" Op 127, a separate piece in several episodes that runs about 8 minutes. This is the one for which I can find no catalog entry.
Russ (not Martha)
15. Gypsy Dance (Act III No. 32) 2:56
16. Severyan's Dance (Act III No. 33) 1:31
17. Solo of the Gypsy Girl and Coda (Act III No. 34) 3:42
So I suppose that these 3 movements together form that "Fantasy".
Agreed.
The Schweiger/Kansas City "Gypsy Fantasia" (7:28) is equivalent
to the first three numbers of Tableau 7 in the Rozhdesvensky/Bolshoi
complete recording of "Stone Flower" (2:49; 1:41; 3:24).
Notes from the Schweiger recording on Urania claim that
Prokofiev "fashioned .... no less than four symphonic suites"
Op. 126 - Wedding Suite
Op. 127 - Gypsy Fantasy (unpublished)
Op. 128 - Urals Rhapsody (unpublished)
Op. 129 - Lord of the Copper Mountain (unrealised)
Jerry
Are the three numbers as played as part of the entire ballet identical
when played separately as op. 127?
As far as I can tell from one listening, those three numbers and the
Gypsy Fantasy are the same. I can't say whether there might be differences
in orchestration (as Prokofiev did with the Romeo & Juliet suites
extracted from the ballet).

Jerry
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