Discussion:
Beethoven's Hammerklavier op. 106
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Andy Evans
2020-11-07 11:04:35 UTC
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This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.

So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Hank Drake
2020-11-07 11:49:56 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Of Lisitsa, I only saw her youtube video and was not impressed. But it may have been a practice runthrough.

My favorite Hammerklavier is Rudolf Serkin's version on Sony. He's rough at times, but so was Beethoven. Pollini is another good version, as is the smaller scaled but effective Wilhelm Kempff.

Hank
JohnGavin
2020-11-07 14:33:32 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Of Lisitsa, I only saw her youtube video and was not impressed. But it may have been a practice runthrough.
My favorite Hammerklavier is Rudolf Serkin's version on Sony. He's rough at times, but so was Beethoven. Pollini is another good version, as is the smaller scaled but effective Wilhelm Kempff.
Hank
Pollini is still my favorite. I’m referring to the DG recording. Much praise was heaped upon a live pirate recording which I’ve never heard, but will seek it out. Pollini’ s forward impetus, fine technique and lack of fussiness are the right combination for me in this work.
George
2020-11-07 15:16:43 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Of Lisitsa, I only saw her youtube video and was not impressed. But it may have been a practice runthrough.
My favorite Hammerklavier is Rudolf Serkin's version on Sony. He's rough at times, but so was Beethoven. Pollini is another good version, as is the smaller scaled but effective Wilhelm Kempff.
Hank
Pollini is still my favorite. I’m referring to the DG recording. Much praise was heaped upon a live pirate recording which I’ve never heard, but will seek it out. Pollini’ s forward impetus, fine technique and lack of fussiness are the right combination for me in this work.
Pollini is still my favorite too. Gulda on Amadeo/Brilliant Classics is excellent as well.

George
MELMOTH
2020-11-07 14:49:10 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
I will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to
hurt me...
dk
2020-11-07 19:42:08 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
I will answer only in the presence of
my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt me...
dk has already answered your question.

dk
raymond....@gmail.com
2020-11-07 23:32:47 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
I will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to
hurt me...
I have only Uchida. Sounds excellent to these ears.

Ray Hall, Taree
dk
2020-11-08 00:04:23 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Andy Evans
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
I will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to
hurt me...
I have only Uchida. Sounds excellent to these ears.
Ray Hall, Taree
You need new ears! ;-)

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-08 00:14:27 UTC
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will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...

*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...

And so many others !...
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-11-08 00:53:52 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...
*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...
And so many others !...
I just noticed there is a live performance of the Hammerlkavier by
Lazar Berman on Spotify; haven't listened yet. I have always liked
Ursula Oppens performance which is also on Spotify.
dk
2020-11-08 02:55:22 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by MELMOTH
will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...
*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...
And so many others !...
I just noticed there is a live performance of the Hammerlkavier by
Lazar Berman on Spotify; haven't listened yet. I have always liked
Ursula Oppens performance which is also on Spotify.
Berman's HK is actually very good.
Better in fact than all those listed
above.

dk
Mandryka
2020-11-08 09:52:23 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by MELMOTH
will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...
*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...
And so many others !...
I just noticed there is a live performance of the Hammerlkavier by
Lazar Berman on Spotify; haven't listened yet. I have always liked
Ursula Oppens performance which is also on Spotify.
Berman's HK is actually very good.
Better in fact than all those listed
above.
dk
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement. However I did come across one recently which I can just tolerate - but I’ve forgotten who was playing. I think it was Peter Rösel
Henk vT
2020-11-08 13:39:51 UTC
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Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement. However I did come across one recently which I can just tolerate - but I’ve forgotten who was playing. I think it was Peter Rösel
The adagio is great - although I only started to like it after seeing Van Manen's ballet (to my great surprise, I even liked the ballet).

Henk
Alan Cooper
2020-11-08 14:25:13 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement. However I did come across one recently which I can just tolerate - but I’ve forgotten who was playing. I think it was Peter Rösel
The adagio is great - although I only started to like it after seeing Van Manen's ballet (to my great surprise, I even liked the ballet).
Henk
Guilty of bad judgement, I enjoy a lot of different recordings, choice depending on my mood of the moment: Beveridge Webster, Peter Serkin (Steinway/Pro Arte) for fleet first movement; the first Del Pueyo (previously mentioned), Mindru Katz, Claude Frank, and Giovanni Bellucci for more moderate tempo and greater weight; Demidenko live or studio. We heard Pollini live twice and enjoyed both performances more than his DG recording.

AC
JohnGavin
2020-11-09 18:31:12 UTC
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Post by Mandryka
Post by dk
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
Post by MELMOTH
will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...
*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...
And so many others !...
I just noticed there is a live performance of the Hammerlkavier by
Lazar Berman on Spotify; haven't listened yet. I have always liked
Ursula Oppens performance which is also on Spotify.
Berman's HK is actually very good.
Better in fact than all those listed
above.
dk
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein. Especially in the fugue.


However I did come across one recently which I can just tolerate - but I’ve forgotten who was playing. I think it was Peter Rösel

Peter Rosel is a straight shooter - very direct interpreter. I will look for this recording.
dk
2020-11-09 22:32:47 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.

A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.

dk
JohnGavin
2020-11-09 23:00:12 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
dk
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
Graham
2020-11-10 00:15:49 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
dk
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
She plays it too fast, perhaps to get it over and done with:-)
dk
2020-11-10 03:11:39 UTC
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Post by Graham
Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
She plays it too fast, perhaps to get it over and done with:-)
She plays it EXACTLY in the marked tempo,
which the bast majority of pianists are
unable to do. She also plays it in a
way that makes it sound fresh, almost
an improvisation, rather than a learned
and practiced exercise.

dk
dk
2020-11-10 22:26:54 UTC
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Post by Graham
Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
She plays it too fast, perhaps to get it over and done with:-)
She plays it EXACTLY in the marked tempo,
which the vast majority of pianists are
unable to do. She also plays it in a
way that makes it sound fresh, almost
like an improvisation, rather than a
learned and practiced exercise.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-10 23:10:33 UTC
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Post by dk
She plays it EXACTLY in the marked tempo,
which the vast majority of pianists are
unable to do.
Nothing more RELATIVE than the tempo...
dk
2020-11-11 00:08:36 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
She plays it EXACTLY in the marked tempo,
which the vast majority of pianists are
unable to do.
Nothing more RELATIVE than the tempo...
... for the French!
MELMOTH
2020-11-11 08:35:43 UTC
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Post by dk
... for the French!
No...For *MUSICIANS*...
dk
2020-11-11 15:48:02 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
... for the French!
No...For *MUSICIANS*...
Pretender....

dk
dk
2020-11-10 03:09:46 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
Barely. Consider that I heard
Richter, Gilels and Kempff
live. I REALLY HATE IT! It
is Boring van Beethoven's
worst piece of shit!

dk
dk
2020-11-10 03:12:27 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
HJ makes the sonatas just listenable.

dk
dk
2020-11-10 22:27:58 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Mandryka
This is an absolutely terrible piece of music and
anyone who likes it clearly has very bad judgement.
I’m in real trouble here - op. 106 has long been my
favorite of the 32, and still is. Its a mega genius
as mad scientist going nuts like Dr. Frankenstein.
Especially in the fugue.
MAGA genius ?!? Oy vey.... The fugue is obscene.
A glass of good scotch can fix all your troubles.
Are you saying that even Ms. HJ Lim doesn’t redeem it for you??
HJ makes the LvB sonatas just barely listenable.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-08 17:31:25 UTC
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Post by dk
Berman's HK is actually very good.
Do you mean his 16-02-1962 live ?...
Ricardo Jimenez
2020-11-08 22:06:57 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
Berman's HK is actually very good.
Do you mean his 16-02-1962 live ?...
The one of Spotify, Lazar Berman Rarities, Vol. 3 (Live), is from
1975.
MELMOTH
2020-11-08 22:24:21 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
The one of Spotify, Lazar Berman Rarities, Vol. 3 (Live), is from
1975.
1962 in that set :

https://www.amazon.fr/Historic-Russsian-Archives-Lazar-Berman/dp/B000FFJQZU/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=39RQ2XTXL0XC&dchild=1&keywords=lazar+berman&qid=1604874207&s=music&sprefix=lazar+berman%2Cclassical%2C170&sr=1-4
dk
2020-11-08 02:54:37 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
will answer only in the presence of my lawyer... I don't want dk to hurt
me...
Go on, MELMOTH...Don't be such a coward...
*Emil Gilels*...
*Solomon Cutner*...
*Maria Grinberg*...
*Eduardo Del Puyo*...
*Dino Ciani*...
*Walter Gieseking*...
And so many others !...
passé! ;-)

dk
Henk vT
2020-11-07 14:54:14 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Bavouzet is very easy to listen to. When I want to hear an austere German version I turn to Richter-Haaser.

Henk
dk
2020-11-07 19:41:10 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the
finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel.
Not satisfied with any of these,
Good ears!
Post by Andy Evans
I started looking for other good versions and
liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard
so far. So, usual question - which are your
favourite versions of this?





dk
dk
2020-11-07 20:30:27 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the
finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel.
Not satisfied with any of these,
Good ears!
Post by Andy Evans
I started looking for other good versions and
liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard
so far. So, usual question - which are your
favourite versions of this?
http://youtu.be/h3xTaoAyf_A
http://youtu.be/8usO-0vwhwk
http://youtu.be/_pwwslFLkK0
http://youtu.be/SLUGF9215aY
Just listening to this again! A masterpiece!

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-07 23:09:25 UTC
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Post by dk
http://youtu.be/h3xTaoAyf_A
http://youtu.be/8usO-0vwhwk
http://youtu.be/_pwwslFLkK0
http://youtu.be/SLUGF9215aY
"Videos not available"...
dk
2020-11-07 23:27:21 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
http://youtu.be/h3xTaoAyf_A
http://youtu.be/8usO-0vwhwk
http://youtu.be/_pwwslFLkK0
http://youtu.be/SLUGF9215aY
"Videos not available"...
This is easy to fix. VPN yourself
to a region where they are available.
Since we have already verified they
are available in the US, try to VPN
yourself to the US.

Perhaps an easier alternative would
be for me to upload the recording to
a shared folder of your choice, or to
send the files.

dk
Tatonik
2020-11-08 17:38:04 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
http://youtu.be/h3xTaoAyf_A
http://youtu.be/8usO-0vwhwk
http://youtu.be/_pwwslFLkK0
http://youtu.be/SLUGF9215aY
"Videos not available"...
You don't know how lucky you are.
dk
2020-11-08 19:15:57 UTC
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Post by Tatonik
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
http://youtu.be/h3xTaoAyf_A
http://youtu.be/8usO-0vwhwk
http://youtu.be/_pwwslFLkK0
http://youtu.be/SLUGF9215aY
"Videos not available"...
You don't know how lucky you are.
You don't know how stupid you are!

dk
Mandryka
2020-11-08 20:11:36 UTC
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The most remarkable thing about the Lim for me is the coherence of it. Somehow taking the third movement as she does makes it all seem to come together. The fugue is astonishing. One of the really interesting op 106s.
dk
2020-11-08 21:02:31 UTC
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Post by Mandryka
The most remarkable thing about the Lim for me
is the coherence of it.
Yes! Only Richter and Sofronitsky were capable of
doing this.
Post by Mandryka
Somehow taking the third movement as she does
makes it all seem to come together. The fugue
is astonishing. One of the really interesting
op 106s.
Amen!

dk
dk
2020-11-09 00:27:08 UTC
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Post by Mandryka
The most remarkable thing about the Lim for
me is the coherence of it. Somehow taking
the third movement as she does makes it
all seem to come together. The fugue is
astonishing. One of the really interesting
op 106s.
The fugue is watchable here:


This stands above everyone else, including
Richter and Gilels.

dk
Neil
2020-11-09 12:42:17 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Ogdon very good in this too. It was one of his specialities.
dk
2020-11-09 18:26:05 UTC
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Post by Neil
Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
Ogdon very good in this too. It was one of his specialities.


dk
Henk vT
2020-11-09 18:34:18 UTC
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Post by dk
http://youtu.be/Z8_2RyAYjRc
Thanks. It's a great adagio.

Henk
Tony
2020-11-09 21:14:57 UTC
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15 year old Dmitri Shostakovich played this work on 27 June 1922 while a student of Leonid Nikolayev. I have a copy of the concert program – DSCH played last of nine students. This was five years before he went on to compete in the first Chopin Comp with Ginzburg & Oborin.

Granted you won't be hearing this recording any time soon, but for some of us it's exciting just to imagine it. Shostakovich himself admitted to going through a phase of copying everything Yudina was doing with her bizarre inverted dynamics and sudden accelerations.
Tassilo
2020-11-12 07:17:18 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
This came up on BBC Building a Library where the finalists were Uchida, Gulda, Lewis and Schnabel. Not satisfied with any of these, I started looking for other good versions and liked Solomon and Lisitsa from what I heard so far.
So, usual question - which are your favourite versions of this?
The first of three recordings with Charles Rosen, the one on Epic.
The first of two recordings with Andrea Lucchesini, the one on EMI.
I'm not sure which of two CBS recordings with Rudolf Serkin. Would have to go back and compare them again.

-Tassilo

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