Discussion:
OT? - As if we didn't have ENOUGH to worry about in these times
Add Reply
g***@gmail.com
2020-06-24 01:33:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
g***@gmail.com
2020-06-25 00:20:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/24/sahara-dust-storm-us-gulf-coast-texas-what-to-expect/3250102001/
g***@gmail.com
2020-06-25 00:54:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/24/sahara-dust-storm-us-gulf-coast-texas-what-to-expect/3250102001/
If it's not hot enough for you, go to the U.K.

Or Siberia:

https://news.google.com/search?q=hottest&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
g***@gmail.com
2020-06-25 00:57:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/24/sahara-dust-storm-us-gulf-coast-texas-what-to-expect/3250102001/
If it's not hot enough for you, go to the U.K.
https://news.google.com/search?q=hottest&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
6 Months and counting:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/world-has-six-months-to-avert-climate-crisis-says-energy-expert
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-02 00:38:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-03 00:12:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
wonder if the bot works for our of our alphabet agencies


"be vewy fwightened!!!"
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-05 18:00:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
Will hospitals soon be overwhelmed?:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-05 19:07:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
No.

C.
graham
2020-07-05 20:49:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
No.
C.
Are you psychic?
Frank Berger
2020-07-05 21:24:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by graham
On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 11:00:31 AM UTC-7,
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 5:38:56 PM UTC-7,
On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 6:33:10 PM UTC-7,
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
    No.
C.
Are you psychic?
I don't know if they will be overwhelmed or not. But it is
annoying to see story after story about an acceleration in
cases that don't mention that (so far) there has been no
acceleration in deaths. Even if the text does mention more
than just cases, all of the charts are cases, not
hospitalizations or deaths. There are three reasons, at
least, to hope that deaths will not accelerate as much as
cases. First the infections are more concentrated among
young adults than before and they are less likely to
experience disease requiring hospitalization. Second, I read
somewhere that a lot has been learned about treating Covid
cases, which should help also. Finally, some of the growth
in cases is due to increased testing.
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-05 21:38:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by graham
On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 11:00:31 AM UTC-7,
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 5:38:56 PM UTC-7,
On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 6:33:10 PM UTC-7,
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
    No.
C.
Are you psychic?
I don't know if they will be overwhelmed or not. But it is
annoying to see story after story about an acceleration in
cases that don't mention that (so far) there has been no
acceleration in deaths. Even if the text does mention more
than just cases, all of the charts are cases, not
hospitalizations or deaths. There are three reasons, at
least, to hope that deaths will not accelerate as much as
cases. First the infections are more concentrated among
young adults than before and they are less likely to
experience disease requiring hospitalization. Second, I read
somewhere that a lot has been learned about treating Covid
cases, which should help also. Finally, some of the growth
in cases is due to increased testing.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/opinions/steady-death-rate-covid-19-infections-spike-sepkowitz/index.html
Steven Bornfeld
2020-07-06 16:17:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I don't know if they will be overwhelmed or not. But it is annoying to
see story after story about an acceleration in cases that don't mention
that (so far) there has been no acceleration in deaths.  Even if the
text does mention more than just cases, all of the charts are cases, not
hospitalizations or deaths. There are three reasons, at least, to hope
that deaths will not accelerate as much as cases. First the infections
are more concentrated among young adults than before and they are less
likely to experience disease requiring hospitalization. Second, I read
somewhere that a lot has been learned about treating Covid cases, which
should help also. Finally, some of the growth in cases is due to
increased testing.
I hope you're right. But deaths are very much a lagging indicator; I've
seen lag times of up to 3-4 weeks.

S
Frank Berger
2020-07-06 17:15:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
I don't know if they will be overwhelmed or not. But it is
annoying to see story after story about an acceleration in
cases that don't mention that (so far) there has been no
acceleration in deaths.  Even if the text does mention
more than just cases, all of the charts are cases, not
hospitalizations or deaths. There are three reasons, at
least, to hope that deaths will not accelerate as much as
cases. First the infections are more concentrated among
young adults than before and they are less likely to
experience disease requiring hospitalization. Second, I
read somewhere that a lot has been learned about treating
Covid cases, which should help also. Finally, some of the
growth in cases is due to increased testing.
I hope you're right.  But deaths are very much a lagging
indicator; I've seen lag times of up to 3-4 weeks.
A balanced article includes all these things.
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-06 00:50:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
No.
C.
Are you psychic?
Let's hope that our future doesn't play out like a sci-fi movie:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.movies.past-films/SbpUaO8n6eg
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-06 15:07:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday.

The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an "epidemic" if the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a certain percentage of total deaths per week. That threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during less virulent months.

CDC data indicate that deaths from those ailments began skyrocketing in the country around the second week of March, hitting a peak around early May and then plummeting quickly after that.."

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc


yet the fear-mongering continues..
Frank Berger
2020-07-06 15:26:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
"Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday.
The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an "epidemic" if the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a certain percentage of total deaths per week. That threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during less virulent months.
CDC data indicate that deaths from those ailments began skyrocketing in the country around the second week of March, hitting a peak around early May and then plummeting quickly after that.."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc
yet the fear-mongering continues..
There is bias and politicking on both sides. The Left wants
to use it to hurt Trump, so the MSM focuses on infections
and not hospitalizations or deaths, and focuses on what
Trump could have/should have done and ignores what China did
or the incompetence (at best) of the WHO (the WHO just
admitted that they didn't find out about the virus from
official sources in China like they have claimed)

OTOH, the Right, seeking to avert an electoral catastrophe
in November, minimizes everything having to do with the virus.

Both sides have valid points to make. I don't know what
media is the most unbiased - both in reporting news and in
fair commentary - unless it's the WSJ.
Frank Berger
2020-07-06 18:48:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
      "Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly
reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as
an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday.
The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an "epidemic" if
the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a
certain percentage of total deaths per week. That
threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates
slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from
around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during
less virulent months.
CDC data indicate that deaths from those ailments began
skyrocketing in the country around the second week of
March, hitting a peak around early May and then plummeting
quickly after that.."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc
   yet the fear-mongering continues..
There is bias and politicking on both sides.  The Left wants
to use it to hurt Trump, so the MSM focuses on infections
and not hospitalizations or deaths, and focuses on what
Trump could have/should have done and ignores what China did
or the incompetence (at best) of the WHO (the WHO just
admitted that they didn't find out about the virus from
official sources in China like they have claimed)
OTOH, the Right, seeking to avert an electoral catastrophe
in November, minimizes everything having to do with the virus.
Both sides have valid points to make.  I don't know what
media is the most unbiased - both in reporting news and in
fair commentary - unless it's the WSJ.
Case in point: CNN headline right now:

GOP Governor: "I opened the bars too soon."

You can feel the glee even though it means people are going
to die.
Raymond Hall
2020-07-08 00:48:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
-Case in point:  CNN headline right now:

-GOP Governor: "I opened the bars too soon."

-You can feel the glee even though it means people are going
-to die.

Being full of glee knowing that Trump is proving a disaster ceased to be funny the moment he got elected. As for the connotation about people feeling gleeful about the deaths of others is distasteful.

Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 01:50:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
-GOP Governor: "I opened the bars too soon."
-You can feel the glee even though it means people are going
-to die.
Being full of glee knowing that Trump is proving a disaster ceased to be funny the moment he got elected. As for the connotation about people feeling gleeful about the deaths of others is distasteful.
Ray Hall, Taree
Not sure why, but you have seriously distorted my meaning.
First, the story was about a (GOP) governor, not Trump.
Second, I did not say anyone felt glee about deaths. I
implied they was happy to be able to blame a Republican for
something.
Raymond Hall
2020-07-08 02:27:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Raymond Hall
-GOP Governor: "I opened the bars too soon."
-You can feel the glee even though it means people are going
-to die.
Being full of glee knowing that Trump is proving a disaster ceased to be funny the moment he got elected. As for the connotation about people feeling gleeful about the deaths of others is distasteful.
Ray Hall, Taree
Not sure why, but you have seriously distorted my meaning.
First, the story was about a (GOP) governor, not Trump.
GOP and Trump amount to the same disaster, however it is spelled out.
Post by Frank Berger
Second, I did not say anyone felt glee about deaths. I
implied they was happy to be able to blame a Republican for
something.
Of course. Doesn't really need to be pointed out though, does it? As if the GOP and the loony right-ards don't resort to the same, only more so. And besides, the implication was still there.

Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 03:42:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Raymond Hall
-GOP Governor: "I opened the bars too soon."
-You can feel the glee even though it means people are going
-to die.
Being full of glee knowing that Trump is proving a disaster ceased to be funny the moment he got elected. As for the connotation about people feeling gleeful about the deaths of others is distasteful.
Ray Hall, Taree
Not sure why, but you have seriously distorted my meaning.
First, the story was about a (GOP) governor, not Trump.
GOP and Trump amount to the same disaster, however it is spelled out.
Post by Frank Berger
Second, I did not say anyone felt glee about deaths. I
implied they was happy to be able to blame a Republican for
something.
Of course. Doesn't really need to be pointed out though, does it? As if the GOP and the loony right-ards don't resort to the same, only more so. And besides, the implication was still there.
Ray Hall, Taree
I refuse to be your straight man.
Steven Bornfeld
2020-07-06 16:24:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
"Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday.
The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an "epidemic" if the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a certain percentage of total deaths per week. That threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during less virulent months.
CDC data indicate that deaths from those ailments began skyrocketing in the country around the second week of March, hitting a peak around early May and then plummeting quickly after that.."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc
yet the fear-mongering continues..
Sorry, justthenews.com is not correct about what the CDC defines as
epidemic. The term requires no specific metrics on death at all.
Given the surge in cases, and the lag time from diagnosis to death, I
think it's just a bit early to declare "mission accomplished".

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section11.html

Steve
Bob Harper
2020-07-06 16:26:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
"Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday.
The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an "epidemic" if the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a certain percentage of total deaths per week. That threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during less virulent months.
CDC data indicate that deaths from those ailments began skyrocketing in the country around the second week of March, hitting a peak around early May and then plummeting quickly after that.."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc
yet the fear-mongering continues..
I am convinced that it is quite intentional, which is shockingly
irresponsible behavior on the part of the media and the Ds (but I repeat
myself).

Bob Harper
wkasimer
2020-07-06 17:46:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
I am convinced that it is quite intentional, which is shockingly
irresponsible behavior on the part of the media and the Ds (but I repeat
myself).
My leftist friends no longer even pretend that the media's left bias doesn't exist - because they like it that way.

Another reason why numbers of cases are potentially misleading is that different countries have different health care systems. A country with a robust system will have more cases due to better access to care and more testing. A country with a poor system will have lower numbers of cases but a higher case-fatality rate. I've found Johns Hopkins site to be a good source of comparative data:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
graham
2020-07-06 19:30:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by Bob Harper
I am convinced that it is quite intentional, which is shockingly
irresponsible behavior on the part of the media and the Ds (but I repeat
myself).
My leftist friends no longer even pretend that the media's left bias doesn't exist - because they like it that way.
Another reason why numbers of cases are potentially misleading is that >different countries have different health care systems. A country with a >robust system will have more cases due to better access to care and more >testing. A country with a poor system will have lower numbers of REPORTED >cases but a higher case-fatality rate.
Modified to make a bit more sense.
wkasimer
2020-07-06 19:53:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by wkasimer
Post by Bob Harper
I am convinced that it is quite intentional, which is shockingly
irresponsible behavior on the part of the media and the Ds (but I repeat
myself).
My leftist friends no longer even pretend that the media's left bias doesn't exist - because they like it that way.
Another reason why numbers of cases are potentially misleading is that >different countries have different health care systems. A country with a >robust system will have more cases due to better access to care and more >testing. A country with a poor system will have lower numbers of REPORTED >cases but a higher case-fatality rate.
Modified to make a bit more sense.
Which part of my original post didn't make sense?
Frank Berger
2020-07-06 20:27:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by graham
Post by wkasimer
Post by Bob Harper
I am convinced that it is quite intentional, which is shockingly
irresponsible behavior on the part of the media and the Ds (but I repeat
myself).
My leftist friends no longer even pretend that the media's left bias doesn't exist - because they like it that way.
Another reason why numbers of cases are potentially misleading is that >different countries have different health care systems. A country with a >robust system will have more cases due to better access to care and more >testing. A country with a poor system will have lower numbers of REPORTED >cases but a higher case-fatality rate.
Modified to make a bit more sense.
Which part of my original post didn't make sense?
He added the word "reported" to distinguish between real
cases (which are unaffected by testing) and reported cases
which are. This is a distinction which the media often fail
to make. We know what you meant.
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-06 20:44:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Off-Guardian, today- Notorious Fourth: Independence Day in the Home of the Cowed:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/06/notorious-fourth-independence-day-in-the-land-of-the-captive-the-home-of-the-cowed/#comments


Off-Guardian's Coronavirus coverage compilation page:
https://off-guardian.org/the-coronavirus-pandemic/


C.
wkasimer
2020-07-07 15:24:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
He added the word "reported" to distinguish between real
cases (which are unaffected by testing) and reported cases
which are. This is a distinction which the media often fail
to make. We know what you meant.
Yeah, I thought that it was obvious enough. If a case isn't reported, it isn't part of any data.
graham
2020-07-07 15:37:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by Frank Berger
He added the word "reported" to distinguish between real
cases (which are unaffected by testing) and reported cases
which are. This is a distinction which the media often fail
to make. We know what you meant.
Yeah, I thought that it was obvious enough. If a case isn't reported, it isn't part of any data.
The point was that lack of testing doesn't mean fewer cases!
wkasimer
2020-07-07 15:55:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by graham
The point was that lack of testing doesn't mean fewer cases!
I guess that after 35 years as a pathologist, I assumed that no one actually needed that spelled out.
Bob Harper
2020-07-07 16:32:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by graham
The point was that lack of testing doesn't mean fewer cases!
I guess that after 35 years as a pathologist, I assumed that no one actually needed that spelled out.
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?

Bob Harper
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-07 20:09:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
On that note: https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news


And Houston Hospital CEOs on Covid-19 and their hospitals' capacities:
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046

C.
Bob Harper
2020-07-07 21:04:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
On that note: https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046
C.
Ah, but that doesn't fit the 'narrative'. Ten bucks says you will not
hear this mentioned by CNN or NPR.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-07-07 21:08:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
On that note: https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046
C.
Some eye-opening stuff there. Not sure about the accuracy
of everything in the first link above. The assertion that
asymptomatic Covid-19 people are not infectious seems to be
in dispute. Most sites seem to say it is unknown.

If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to
droplets in the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.

OTOH, the media is confused as usual. They are shocked
(shocked!) that cases went up as states relaxes the
restrictions as if anybody thought that wouldn't happen,
missing entirely the point that we are trading to optimize
the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic environment
and Covid-19 disease.
Frank Berger
2020-07-07 22:44:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 9:32:11 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a
positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are
mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
And Houston Hospital CEOs on Covid-19 and their hospitals'
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046
C.
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the accuracy
of everything in the first link above.  The assertion that
asymptomatic Covid-19 people are not infectious seems to be
in dispute.  Most sites seem to say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to
droplets in the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked
(shocked!) that cases went up as states relaxes the
restrictions as if anybody thought that wouldn't happen,
missing entirely the point that we are trading to optimize
the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic environment
and Covid-19 disease.
I vow to proof-read my posts more carefully in the future.
"trading to optimize..." should have been "trying to
optimize."
Bob Harper
2020-07-07 23:45:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046
C.
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the accuracy of
everything in the first link above.  The assertion that asymptomatic
Covid-19 people are not infectious seems to be in dispute.  Most sites
seem to say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to droplets in
the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked (shocked!)
that cases went up as states relaxes the restrictions as if anybody
thought that wouldn't happen, missing entirely the point that we are
trading to optimize the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic
environment and Covid-19 disease.
I vow to proof-read my posts more carefully in the future. "trading to
optimize..." should have been "trying to optimize."
Frank, we figured that as a good Libertarian you meant exactly what you
wrote :).

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 00:02:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 9:32:11 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as
a positive test,
whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are
mild or serious.
Does this tell us much?
Bob Harper
https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
And Houston Hospital CEOs on Covid-19 and their
https://www.woodlandsonline.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=67046
C.
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the
accuracy of everything in the first link above.  The
assertion that asymptomatic Covid-19 people are not
infectious seems to be in dispute.  Most sites seem to
say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to
droplets in the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked
(shocked!) that cases went up as states relaxes the
restrictions as if anybody thought that wouldn't happen,
missing entirely the point that we are trading to
optimize the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic
environment and Covid-19 disease.
I vow to proof-read my posts more carefully in the future.
"trading to optimize..." should have been "trying to
optimize."
Frank, we figured that as a good Libertarian you meant
exactly what you wrote :).
Bob Harper
I used to preach to my kids to mean what they say and say
what they mean but I never associated that with my
Libertarian instincts.
Steven Bornfeld
2020-07-08 19:14:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the accuracy of everything
in the first link above.  The assertion that asymptomatic Covid-19
people are not infectious seems to be in dispute.  Most sites seem to
say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to droplets in the
air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked (shocked!) that
cases went up as states relaxes the restrictions as if anybody thought
that wouldn't happen, missing entirely the point that we are trading to
optimize the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic environment and
Covid-19 disease.
I did not know you had caught COVID--I hope you have made a complete
recovery.
Don't know who our pathologist is. Apparently Trump needs to
acknowledge that decreased testing does not mean fewer cases.
The numbers I've read indicate that up to 30% of patients with a
positive test are asymptomatic or "pre-symptomatic". As testing
increases, death rates should come down--that should be self-evident.
I've heard differing opinions as to just whom should be tested. Still,
in most countries the mortality seems to be between 2 and 5 % of cases.
The true mortality has been estimated as on the order of 0.1%; the
discrepancy apparently due to the fact that symptomatic patients are
tested at a much higher rate.
Dr. Littell's letter very much holds a minority opinion among the
sources I've seen. In a month or so things may look different; I
certainly hope his optimism is warranted.

Steve
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 19:28:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the accuracy
of everything in the first link above.  The assertion that
asymptomatic Covid-19 people are not infectious seems to
be in dispute.  Most sites seem to say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to
droplets in the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked
(shocked!) that cases went up as states relaxes the
restrictions as if anybody thought that wouldn't happen,
missing entirely the point that we are trading to optimize
the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic environment
and Covid-19 disease.
I did not know you had caught COVID--I hope you have made a
complete recovery.
Oh yes. Complete recovery. But it was nasty. Second worst
I've ever felt, the first being seasick, but that only
lasted a few hours. I discussed it here pretty extensively.
Guess you weren't paying attention.
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Don't know who our pathologist is.  Apparently Trump needs
to acknowledge that decreased testing does not mean fewer
cases.
I do not believe he meant it literally in the way it has
been portrayed. Simply because I can't believe anybody
could be that stupid.
Post by Steven Bornfeld
The numbers I've read indicate that up to 30% of patients
with a positive test are asymptomatic or "pre-symptomatic".
As testing increases, death rates should come down--that
should be self-evident. I've heard differing opinions as to
just whom should be tested.  Still, in most countries the
mortality seems to be between 2 and 5 % of cases. The true
mortality has been estimated as on the order of 0.1%; the
discrepancy apparently due to the fact that symptomatic
patients are tested at a much higher rate.
Dr. Littell's letter very much holds a minority opinion
among the sources I've seen.  In a month or so things may
look different; I certainly hope his optimism is warranted.
Steve
Steven Bornfeld
2020-07-08 22:18:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Oh yes.  Complete recovery.  But it was nasty. Second worst I've ever
felt, the first being seasick, but that only lasted a few hours.  I
discussed it here pretty extensively.  Guess you weren't paying attention.
I guess not. I apparently had a virtual visit with my cardiologist in
May; it showed up on my Medicare supplemental statement--I have
absolutely no memory of it. Creeping senility.
Glad you're better. I have an old college friend (a psychiatrist) who
thinks he caught it through his eyes while grocery shopping (I mean, how
can you really know?). He had a rough course, with multiple
exacerbations over a couple of months.
I think too many of these optimistic projections are coming from areas
they're only now getting hit hard. Here, we're still kind of
shell-shocked. I don't think many in NYC are going to be minimizing
this thing.

Take care,
Steve
Don't know who our pathologist is.  Apparently Trump needs to
acknowledge that decreased testing does not mean fewer cases.
I do not believe he meant it literally in the way it has been
portrayed.  Simply because I can't believe anybody could be that stupid.
The numbers I've read indicate that up to 30% of patients with a
positive test are asymptomatic or "pre-symptomatic". As testing
increases, death rates should come down--that should be self-evident.
I've heard differing opinions as to just whom should be tested.
Still, in most countries the mortality seems to be between 2 and 5 %
of cases. The true mortality has been estimated as on the order of
0.1%; the discrepancy apparently due to the fact that symptomatic
patients are tested at a much higher rate.
Dr. Littell's letter very much holds a minority opinion among the
sources I've seen.  In a month or so things may look different; I
certainly hope his optimism is warranted.
Steve
Bob Harper
2020-07-09 00:10:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Some eye-opening stuff there.  Not sure about the accuracy of
everything in the first link above.  The assertion that asymptomatic
Covid-19 people are not infectious seems to be in dispute.  Most sites
seem to say it is unknown.
If the only way yo get Covid-19 is prolonged exposure to droplets in
the air, I wouldn't have gotten it.
OTOH, the media is confused as usual.  They are shocked (shocked!)
that cases went up as states relaxes the restrictions as if anybody
thought that wouldn't happen, missing entirely the point that we are
trading to optimize the trade-off between a damaged socio-economic
environment and Covid-19 disease.
I did not know you had caught COVID--I hope you have made a complete
recovery.
Don't know who our pathologist is.  Apparently Trump needs to
acknowledge that decreased testing does not mean fewer cases.
The numbers I've read indicate that up to 30% of patients with a
positive test are asymptomatic or "pre-symptomatic".  As testing
increases, death rates should come down--that should be self-evident.
I've heard differing opinions as to just whom should be tested.  Still,
in most countries the mortality seems to be between 2 and 5 % of cases.
The true mortality has been estimated as on the order of 0.1%; the
discrepancy apparently due to the fact that symptomatic patients are
tested at a much higher rate.
Dr. Littell's letter very much holds a minority opinion among the
sources I've seen.  In a month or so things may look different; I
certainly hope his optimism is warranted.
Steve
Same here. I can't imagine anyone not *hoping* he's right, even while
believing he isn't.

Bob Harper

Raymond Hall
2020-07-08 00:37:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
-In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
-whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
-Does this tell us much?

Yes. It tells us a lot more about the disease, and also about community spread, and other variables. A blind pig will stumble upon a truffle but rarely.

Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 01:47:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
-In addition, it seems that a 'case' has been defined as a positive test,
-whether symptoms occur, and if they do whether they are mild or serious.
-Does this tell us much?
Yes. It tells us a lot more about the disease, and also about community spread, and other variables. A blind pig will stumble upon a truffle but rarely.
Ray Hall, Taree
Sure but emphasizing cases this way as opposed to
hospitalizations or deaths (the best single measure),
overstates the importance.
Frank Berger
2020-07-07 16:29:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by graham
On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 4:27:09 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
He added the word "reported" to distinguish between real
cases (which are unaffected by testing) and reported cases
which are.  This is a distinction which the media often fail
to make.  We know what you meant.
Yeah, I thought that it was obvious enough.  If a case
isn't reported, it isn't part of any data.
The point was that lack of testing doesn't mean fewer cases!
We get it.
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-05 20:38:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/05/overwhelmed-southern-california-transferring-coronavirus-patients-to-bay-area-hospitals/
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-05 20:44:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/05/overwhelmed-southern-california-transferring-coronavirus-patients-to-bay-area-hospitals/
https://news.google.com/search?q=hospitals%20overwhelmed&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-08 00:00:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/05/overwhelmed-southern-california-transferring-coronavirus-patients-to-bay-area-hospitals/
https://news.google.com/search?q=hospitals%20overwhelmed&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/more-states-are-seeing-icus-reach-capacity-as-coronavirus-spreads
g***@gmail.com
2020-07-08 04:14:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/if-the-coronavirus-wasnt-bad-enough-a-new-flu-strain-shows-hallmarks-of-next-pandemic.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/05/overwhelmed-southern-california-transferring-coronavirus-patients-to-bay-area-hospitals/
https://news.google.com/search?q=hospitals%20overwhelmed&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/more-states-are-seeing-icus-reach-capacity-as-coronavirus-spreads
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-08 14:58:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Second Wave? Not Even Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 16:56:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right. I think he is. In any case
we will know in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless,
as he says, of what governors do.
Bob Harper
2020-07-08 17:57:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any case we will know
in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless, as he says, of what
governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but his arguments
should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence he provides rather than
dismissed because he flies against the conventional wisdom. After all,
so did Billy Mitchell.

Bob Harper
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-08 18:22:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
but his arguments
should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence he provides rather than
dismissed because he flies against the conventional wisdom.
Hear, hear..


C.
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 18:40:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any case
we will know in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless,
as he says, of what governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but his
arguments should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence
he provides rather than dismissed because he flies against
the conventional wisdom. After all, so did Billy Mitchell.
Bob Harper
OTOH, a lot of what the "bomber boys" said leading up to and
during WWII was wrong.
Bob Harper
2020-07-08 18:55:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any case we will
know in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless, as he says, of
what governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but his arguments
should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence he provides rather
than dismissed because he flies against the conventional wisdom. After
all, so did Billy Mitchell.
Bob Harper
OTOH, a lot of what the "bomber boys" said leading up to and during WWII
was wrong.
That is true, which is why we should evaluate the evidence offered
rather than choosing to believe or disbelieve because we approve or
disapprove of the author. But then you know that already :).

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 18:41:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any case
we will know in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless,
as he says, of what governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but his
arguments should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence
he provides rather than dismissed because he flies against
the conventional wisdom. After all, so did Billy Mitchell.
Bob Harper
Evidence shmevidence.
Bob Harper
2020-07-08 18:57:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any case we will
know in matter of weeks whether he is, regardless, as he says, of
what governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but his arguments
should be evaluated on the basis of the evidence he provides rather
than dismissed because he flies against the conventional wisdom. After
all, so did Billy Mitchell.
Bob Harper
Evidence shmevidence.
When did you join the 'woke', Frank? :)

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 19:03:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
I hope and pray he is right.  I think he is.  In  any
case we will know in matter of weeks whether he is,
regardless, as he says, of what governors do.
Well, Handley is 'controversial', to say the least, but
his arguments should be evaluated on the basis of the
evidence he provides rather than dismissed because he
flies against the conventional wisdom. After all, so did
Billy Mitchell.
Bob Harper
Evidence shmevidence.
When did you join the 'woke', Frank? :)
Bob Harper
If you're not woke, you're a joke.

Let's not start a rhyming contest. I'll lose.
Steven Bornfeld
2020-07-08 19:18:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
Carey, Handley is a known anti-vaxxer. A critique of his views is here:


https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/j-b-handleys-unthinking-persons-guide-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Steve
Frank Berger
2020-07-08 19:42:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even
Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
Carey, Handley is a known anti-vaxxer.  A critique of his
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/j-b-handleys-unthinking-persons-guide-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Steve
Assuming the Handley is full of shit and Gorski (an
oncologist) is right on, it is ironic that the former reads
like science and the latter reads like a man fulfilling a
political or personal agenda.
v***@protonmail.com
2020-07-08 20:15:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by v***@protonmail.com
Second Wave? Not Even Close:https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/second-wave-not-even-close/#
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/j-b-handleys-unthinking-persons-guide-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Steve
Thank you, Steve.

C.
Loading...