Discussion:
Recordings that reveal a performer as a fabulous technician, but a superficial interpreter
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g***@gmail.com
2018-03-21 04:00:57 UTC
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Horowitz?
s***@hotmail.com
2018-03-21 05:48:02 UTC
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Sometimes perhaps, but often not.

Was in a shopping centre recently where anyone could play a grand piano. A young man played Mozart and Chopin. The notes were played, but he didn’t have a clue. A mechanicus... Graham asked in the Levine MET suit thread about wasting time. This young man had certainly wasted a lot of his time in my opinion.

Soeren
HT
2018-03-21 10:17:26 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Michael Ponti. All of his recordings.

Henk
Andy Evans
2018-03-21 15:47:00 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Love Horowitz. Certainly not.

And Alfred Cortot - not.......
Randy Lane
2018-03-21 18:37:15 UTC
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Lang Lang.
Or should it be Bang Bang?
Belongs in the realm of Houdini the magician, as he aint no musician IMHO.
graham
2018-03-21 19:43:41 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Lang Lang.
Or should it be Bang Bang?
Belongs in the realm of Houdini the magician, as he aint no musician IMHO.
I'm still not sure about Yuja Wang.
Graham
Ed Presson
2018-03-22 02:57:41 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Lang Lang.
Or should it be Bang Bang?
Belongs in the realm of Houdini the magician, as he aint no musician IMHO.
I'm still not sure about Yuja Wang.
Graham
At this point in her career, I'm thinking she fits in this category. I hope
in
a few years that have changed my mind.

Ed Presson
S***@aol.com
2018-03-26 04:49:18 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Love Horowitz. Certainly not.
And Alfred Cortot - not.......
Clearly not for Cortot. He wasn't a fabulous technician.
piano4tay
2018-03-28 16:44:11 UTC
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Really?



AMN
Charles
2018-09-22 01:07:20 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Michael Ponti. All of his recordings.
Henk
Yes, Ponti, Weissenberg, Lang Lang. But not Pollini or Y.Wang. Of course there are so many unremarkable musicians who don't need to be even mentioned here yet again....
Haydn House CD
2018-03-21 18:32:14 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
"Lang Bis" All all his swaying, looks of lamentation aimed up to heaven while playing - as though he thinks he's the only one who can to understand the music - fails miserably to make it all it any better.
Haydn House CD
2018-03-21 18:34:05 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
"Lang Bis" All his swaying, sick arm movements and looks of lamentation aimed up to heaven while playing - as though he thinks he's the only one who can to understand the music - fails miserably to make it all it any better.
h***@btinternet.com
2018-03-21 19:24:02 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Hamelin, Katsaris and possibly Pollini too.
HT
2018-03-22 09:56:02 UTC
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Hamelin, Katsaris ...
Seconded!

Henk
JohnGavin
2018-03-22 12:04:57 UTC
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Having surveyed the solo recordings of John Browning on Spotify, I’d say he fit the description.
HT
2018-03-24 10:02:53 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Having surveyed the solo recordings of John Browning on Spotify, I’d say he fit the description.
Wtts fits that description better, in my opinion. English pianists tend to be rather superficial interpreters. Hamish Milne, Peter Katin, Ronald Smith, and even Eileen Joyce (who I admire!).

Henk
s***@hotmail.com
2018-03-24 11:38:05 UTC
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Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.

Soeren
HT
2018-03-24 17:46:23 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
Soeren
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.

Henk
dk
2018-03-24 22:39:25 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2018-03-24 22:42:41 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
dk
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/portrait-of-australian-pianist-eileen-joyce-playing-the-news-photo/586064465#/portrait-of-australian-pianist-eileen-joyce-playing-the-harpsichord-picture-id586064465
dk
2018-03-25 06:13:57 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/portrait-of-australian-pianist-eileen-joyce-playing-the-news-photo/586064465#/portrait-of-australian-pianist-eileen-joyce-playing-the-harpsichord-picture-id586064465
***@gmail.com would you please learn
how to use tinyurl? That would endear you
to r.m.c.r more than all the quotes provided
since you joined the group! ;-)

dk
AB
2018-03-25 00:51:54 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
dk
what about her shoes
dk
2018-03-25 06:12:15 UTC
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Post by AB
Post by dk
Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
what about her shoes
Sorry Arri, that was BY (before Yuja).
Shoes had not been yet revealed as
musical instruments! ;-)

dk
Al Eisner
2018-03-31 00:09:17 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by AB
Post by dk
Post by HT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Actually, Eileen Joyce was from Australia.
<g> Thanks. That may be the reason why I admire her.
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
what about her shoes
Sorry Arri, that was BY (before Yuja).
Shoes had not been yet revealed as
musical instruments! ;-)
dk
Surely you've heard of (and heard) tap dancing? (I've not observed
Yuja Wang, so I don't know if that's what she does with her shoes.)
--
Al Eisner
HT
2018-03-25 10:41:29 UTC
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Post by dk
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
<g> Very complimentary of you to assume that I might have been aware of how well Eileen Joyce was dressed.

Henk
dk
2018-03-25 13:18:56 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by dk
Not her wardrobe? Apparently she was
admired as much for her dresses as
for her playing.
<g> Very complimentary of you to assume that I
might have been aware of how well Eileen Joyce
was dressed.
Your loss! ;-)

dk
AB
2018-03-24 17:49:29 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by JohnGavin
Having surveyed the solo recordings of John Browning on Spotify, I’d say he fit the description.
Wtts fits that description better, in my opinion. English pianists tend to be rather superficial interpreters. Hamish Milne, Peter Katin, Ronald Smith, and even Eileen Joyce (who I admire!).
Henk
so why do you leave out Solomon who does not fit that description (not to mention Grosvenor) :-))

AB
HT
2018-03-24 18:56:46 UTC
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Post by AB
so why do you leave out Solomon who does not fit that description (not to mention Grosvenor) :-))
I forgot to mention Grosvenor as a fabulous technician and a rather superficial musician. If Hamelin, then Grosvenor. <g> I wouldn't call Solomon a fabulous technician. Beethoven specialists usually aren't.

Henk
AB
2018-03-24 19:35:13 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by AB
so why do you leave out Solomon who does not fit that description (not to mention Grosvenor) :-))
I forgot to mention Grosvenor as a fabulous technician and a rather superficial musician. If Hamelin, then Grosvenor. <g> I wouldn't call Solomon a fabulous technician. Beethoven specialists usually aren't.
Henk
I am somewhat insulted...... his recent performances are of the highest musicality IMO.

AB
HT
2018-03-24 20:46:08 UTC
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Post by AB
I am somewhat insulted...... his recent performances are of the highest musicality IMO.
Are you referring to his Beethoven piano concerto 2?

Henk
AB
2018-03-25 00:50:14 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by AB
I am somewhat insulted...... his recent performances are of the highest musicality IMO.
Are you referring to his Beethoven piano concerto 2?
Henk
and a recent recital in Princeton University, the one I sent to the un-named ingrate, the member of RMCR.
let me know if you want a copy...

Arri
HT
2018-03-25 10:21:36 UTC
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Post by AB
and a recent recital in Princeton University, the one I sent to the un-named ingrate, the member of RMCR.
let me know if you want a copy...
Arri, that's very kind of you. However, it wouldn't be right to ask you for a copy. As you may have noticed, I'm not really into Grosvenor. <g>

Henk
AB
2018-03-25 17:26:33 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by AB
and a recent recital in Princeton University, the one I sent to the un-named ingrate, the member of RMCR.
let me know if you want a copy...
Arri, that's very kind of you. However, it wouldn't be right to ask you for a copy. As you may have noticed, I'm not really into Grosvenor. <g>
Henk
you just ruined my day, please don't apologize:-)

Arri
piano4tay
2018-03-25 08:16:00 UTC
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I think that Solomon's performances of Liszt and Brahms's 'Handel Variations' are unquestionably the work of a 'fabulous technician'. And calling him a 'Beethoven specialist' is a bit misleading - he excelled equally in Liszt and Chopin, though his recordings of these composers are regrettably few.

Another British pianist with a fabulous technique and great musicianship was Myra Hess, as evidenced in her recording of Schumann's Etude Symphoniques.

Generalisations based on such dubious notions as 'nationality' are rarely secure...

AMN
Neil
2018-03-25 09:02:49 UTC
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Post by piano4tay
I think that Solomon's performances of Liszt and Brahms's 'Handel Variations' are unquestionably the work of a 'fabulous technician'. And calling him a 'Beethoven specialist' is a bit misleading - he excelled equally in Liszt and Chopin, though his recordings of these composers are regrettably few.
And Schumann! And Schubert, Bach and Mozart.
Andy Evans
2018-03-26 09:21:19 UTC
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Post by piano4tay
Generalisations based on such dubious notions as 'nationality' are rarely secure...
AMN
And there was I musing on the 'cool' quality of a few Italians like Pollini and Michelangeli.....
HT
2018-03-26 17:52:47 UTC
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Post by piano4tay
Generalisations based on such dubious notions as 'nationality' are rarely secure...
Perhaps. There are no Dutch pianists of whom it can be said that they are "fabulous" technicians. Is that a coincidence?

Henk
dk
2018-03-26 18:20:02 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by piano4tay
Generalisations based on such dubious notions
as 'nationality' are rarely secure...
Perhaps. There are no Dutch pianists of whom it
can be said that they are "fabulous" technicians.
Is that a coincidence?
Easily fixed. Add more paprika to food! ;-)
HT
2018-03-26 18:55:36 UTC
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Post by dk
Easily fixed. Add more paprika to food! ;-)
Would that not be counterproductive in these exciting years of trying to determine what our true national identity is? <g>

Henk
dk
2018-03-26 20:06:11 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by dk
Easily fixed. Add more paprika to food! ;-)
Would that not be counterproductive in these
exciting years of trying to determine what
our true national identity is? <g>
Paprika works directly on the nervous system.
This has nothing to do with nationality!

dk
piano4tay
2018-03-27 05:15:05 UTC
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Egon Petri was a Dutch citizen until he changed to American when he was 74. He was born and educated in Germany (of Dutch parents), never lived in the Netherlands, but nevertheless had Dutch nationality for most of his life. Fabulous technique, of course. Horowitz had American nationality for most of his life. In these, and I dare say many other, cases it is misleading to correlate nationality with quality and character of pianism. At best it is shorthand for reference to a particular set of training conditions and traditions that may prevail in particular countries or conservatories, but more interesting and accurate to refer to these conditions specifically. Besides, nationalities are subject to the vicissitudes of politics: Horowitz, Barere, Richter, Moiseiwitch, Cherkassky, Prokofief even - no longer Russian, all Ukrainian by birth!


AMN
drh8h
2018-03-27 13:42:58 UTC
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Post by piano4tay
Egon Petri was a Dutch citizen until he changed to American when he was 74. He was born and educated in Germany (of Dutch parents), never lived in the Netherlands, but nevertheless had Dutch nationality for most of his life. Fabulous technique, of course. Horowitz had American nationality for most of his life. In these, and I dare say many other, cases it is misleading to correlate nationality with quality and character of pianism. At best it is shorthand for reference to a particular set of training conditions and traditions that may prevail in particular countries or conservatories, but more interesting and accurate to refer to these conditions specifically. Besides, nationalities are subject to the vicissitudes of politics: Horowitz, Barere, Richter, Moiseiwitch, Cherkassky, Prokofief even - no longer Russian, all Ukrainian by birth!
AMN
We can get way too fixated on nationalities and so called "cultures." The variations within each group are probably greater than the differences between. Speaking of British pianists, no one mentioned Curzon. Not a dazzler, small repertory and sometimes pretty leaden and boring, but much respected, even by such a super perfectionist as George Szell.
Andy Evans
2018-03-27 15:00:03 UTC
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Post by piano4tay
Egon Petri was a Dutch citizen until he changed to American when he was 74. He was born and educated in Germany (of Dutch parents), never lived in the Netherlands, but nevertheless had Dutch nationality for most of his life. Fabulous technique, of course.
AMN
Egon Petri is one of my favourite pianists - wonderful Liszt and late Beethoven sonatas just for starters. I assume you're just making a point about ambiguous nationalities here.
HT
2018-03-27 19:58:00 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I assume you're just making a point about ambiguous nationalities here.
The question is whether "English pianists tend ..." refers to nationality (a legal term) or a certain ethos.

Henk
Neil
2018-03-25 09:00:16 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by AB
so why do you leave out Solomon who does not fit that description (not to mention Grosvenor) :-))
I forgot to mention Grosvenor as a fabulous technician and a rather superficial musician. If Hamelin, then Grosvenor. <g> I wouldn't call Solomon a fabulous technician. Beethoven specialists usually aren't.
Henk
Solomon was't a Beethoven specialist by any means. As for his technique, I think his peers in awe.
Tatonik
2018-03-28 20:35:59 UTC
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Post by Neil
Post by HT
Post by AB
so why do you leave out Solomon who does not fit that description
(not to mention Grosvenor) :-))
I forgot to mention Grosvenor as a fabulous technician and a rather
superficial musician. If Hamelin, then Grosvenor. <g> I wouldn't call
Solomon a fabulous technician. Beethoven specialists usually aren't.
Henk
Solomon was't a Beethoven specialist by any means. As for his technique, I
think his peers in awe.
That reminds me of an anecdote Charles Rosen told about Solomon:

"The performances I remember which gave me that kind of mystical
experience that Leon [Fleisher] was talking about - I once heard Solomon
play the Prelude and Fugue in C Minor from the second book of The
Well-Tempered Clavier. And I had never heard Bach played like that. He
didn't bring anything out, and you could hear everything. It wasn't the
performance of the fugue where the main theme is mezzo forte and
everything else was piano. You heard everything - it was transparent.
And he just sat there and played the thing, and it was breathtaking.
And I went home and practiced like mad, thinking I should be able to do
- maybe someday I could do something like that."

from the Rountable of Pianists video
https://www.loc.gov/item/ihas.200031106

Rosen expands on the anecdote in his book "Piano Notes":

"In the 1940s and 1950s the academic way of playing Bach by those who
persevered with him on the piano in the teeth of the propaganda for the
harpsichord felt that the correct approach was one of sober restraint,
and this approach was sanctified by the teaching in the academy. In
playing a fugue, it was always thought to be important to bring out
every appearance of the theme with the other voices held to a subsidiary
dynamic level: in this way a fugue was realized as a series of mezzo
forte entries of the theme extrated like plums from the rest of the
texture, which formed a sort of background cake of neutral flavor. This
method did not benefit the fugues of Bach, in which, after all, the
principal interest lies not in the main theme but in the way the theme
combines with the interesting motifs of the other voices, themselves
often derived from the theme itself.

"Once in Paris in the 1950s I heard a performance by the English
pianist Solomon of a fugue from the Well-Tempered Keyboard that was a
revelation: it was the C minor fugue from the second book, and the
listener was convinced that Solomon brought nothing out and that
nevertheless one could hear every note in each voice. The tone quality
was the simple, unified cantabile considered appropriate for Bach at the
time, the tempo a calm, reflective movement, and the balance of the
sonorities was so exquisite that the performance, stylistically correct
or not, was deeply moving. I have always had a great admiration for an
artist who appears to do nothing while achieving everything."
Tatonik
2018-03-24 15:52:17 UTC
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Post by HT
Hamelin, Katsaris ...
Seconded!
Henk
I haven't heard that much by Katsaris, but I do have his album of Chopin
waltzes. I don't dislike it, but I wouldn't say it's imbued with warmth
and humanity, either. It is distinctive the way he overemphasises some
of the inner voices.

I'm not sure I would say Hamelin is shallow, but sometimes there is
something rather distant or disconnected about his playing. I don't
know if I would call it coldness, exactly. He has great interest in
what he is playing but he is not quite of the world of men.
JohnGavin
2018-03-24 17:33:10 UTC
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I'm not sure I would say Hamelin is shallow, but sometimes there is
something rather distant or disconnected about his playing. I don't
know if I would call it coldness, exactly. He has great interest in
what he is playing but he is not quite of the world of men.


I agree - I think he is a sensitive interpreter at times - my guess is that his absorption of repertoire has been so prolific and his career has been so busy over the last 30 years that he is at times asleep at the wheel out of exhaustion - not necessarily physical, but emotional.
h***@btinternet.com
2018-03-21 19:24:37 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Toscanini
drh8h
2018-03-21 22:33:22 UTC
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Post by h***@btinternet.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Toscanini
I can't imagine anyone who has heard his recordings of the Prelude to Parsifal would ever consider him superficial.

Dennis
Andy Evans
2018-03-24 09:02:34 UTC
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Post by drh8h
Post by h***@btinternet.com
Toscanini
I can't imagine anyone who has heard his recordings of the Prelude to Parsifal would ever consider him superficial.
Dennis
On the contrary - the Prelude and Good Friday Music are Toscanini at his least inspired - dreadfully slow stuff. Thank God for Solti in Parsifal. Karajan isn't much better. Wagner should move as in speed, not just as in the soul.
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-03-24 14:11:18 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 02:02:34 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans
Post by Andy Evans
Post by drh8h
Post by h***@btinternet.com
Toscanini
I can't imagine anyone who has heard his recordings of the Prelude to Parsifal would ever consider him superficial.
Dennis
On the contrary - the Prelude and Good Friday Music are Toscanini at his least inspired - dreadfully slow stuff. Thank God for Solti in Parsifal. Karajan isn't much better. Wagner should move as in speed, not just as in the soul.
I wonder what you would say about Wagner's conducting. I remember
reading that when Wagner secretly entered the pit and took the baton
from Hans Levi and conducted the last act of Parsifal from the
transformation scene to the end, he slowed the tempo so much that the
singers ran out of breath.
drh8h
2018-03-24 14:47:21 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by drh8h
Post by h***@btinternet.com
Toscanini
I can't imagine anyone who has heard his recordings of the Prelude to Parsifal would ever consider him superficial.
Dennis
On the contrary - the Prelude and Good Friday Music are Toscanini at his least inspired - dreadfully slow stuff. Thank God for Solti in Parsifal. Karajan isn't much better. Wagner should move as in speed, not just as in the soul.
I don't recall Solti's Parsifal as being far out of the norm in tempo. All of these alleged super fast Solti performances--I have been looking for them, and there aren't that many of them. Now, Boulez apparently was different. By your standard he should have been best. I have never heard his recording. Parsifal is best listened to one act at a time and rarely!

DH
Andy Evans
2018-03-24 15:36:20 UTC
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Post by drh8h
I don't recall Solti's Parsifal as being far out of the norm in tempo. All of these alleged super fast Solti performances--I have been looking for them, and there aren't that many of them. Now, Boulez apparently was different. By your standard he should have been best. I have never heard his recording. Parsifal is best listened to one act at a time and rarely!
DH
No - I'm very partial to Act 3. That can bear repeated listening, though it's all blokes singing. Solti is fairly literal rather than super fast, as in not melodramatic like Karajan. I'm not looking for Formula 1 tempi here. I hesitate to think what Reinhard Goebel would do to Parsifal, but that's not likely to happen unless he totally loses his head, which isn't impossible I suppose....
drh8h
2018-03-24 15:42:04 UTC
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Post by h***@btinternet.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Toscanini
Wait a minute. This got me thinking. So how can a conductor be superficial? Here are some ideas:

1. Plays everything the same or lets the orchestra go its own way without any attempt create a cohesive performance.

I know some people think AT played everything the same, but then why would he play Wagner slow and Rossini fast? Musicians who played under him remember he insisted they listen to each other and be mindful of the style of the work. You may not like his conception of the style, but it was thought through with years of intensive study of every piece. Joseph Gingold said he wished AT had conducted all the Beethoven Quartets. Obviously, he thought there were insights no one else could provide.

2. Concentrate on dazzling the audience with the sound of the orchestra without regard to the relation of those sounds to the line, balance or structure of the music.

Patently not true. Many people would say he should have paid MORE attention to this not less. Samuel Antek could not remember him ever asking for or praising "beautiful" playing. His highest compliment was someone played "intelligently."

If he had been interested in dazzling, why is there a curious lack of true prestissimo in his surviving recordings? Even when the composer asks for it like Beethoven's Ninth? Even in less speedy codas this is true. His Brahms 4 is one of the slowest at the very end.

Toscanini needs no defense from me. His performances, both the good and the bad--and yes, there are some, speak for themselves, but let's be fair.

DH
dk
2018-03-23 04:59:09 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
One's favorite pianola!

dk
rapidunleasher
2018-03-23 15:26:59 UTC
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Technique is also tone production, not mechanics.
S***@aol.com
2018-03-26 04:50:27 UTC
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Post by rapidunleasher
Technique is also tone production, not mechanics.
Tone comes from the piano.
O
2018-03-26 17:15:07 UTC
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Post by S***@aol.com
Post by rapidunleasher
Technique is also tone production, not mechanics.
Tone comes from the piano.
AKA "Guns don't kill people, Bullets kill people..."?

-Owen
dk
2018-03-26 18:18:41 UTC
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Post by S***@aol.com
Post by rapidunleasher
Technique is also tone production, not mechanics.
Tone comes from the piano.
Only from Yuja Wang! ;-)
And also from heels! ;-)

dk
Théo Amon
2018-03-26 22:10:39 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Heifetz, for my taste

Ogdon playing Scriabin sonatas too
Tatonik
2018-03-28 18:16:58 UTC
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Post by Théo Amon
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Heifetz, for my taste
I didn't used to think of Heifetz that way, but I may be coming around
to your point of view. When I turned on WFMT the other day, I happened
to hear Heifetz in the Sibelius Violin Concerto. On the surface it was
so right, and yet it was so very wrong.
gggg gggg
2020-12-21 05:51:45 UTC
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Post by Tatonik
Em quarta-feira, 21 de março de 2018 01:00:59 UTC-3,
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Heifetz, for my taste
I didn't used to think of Heifetz that way, but I may be coming around
to your point of view. When I turned on WFMT the other day, I happened
to hear Heifetz in the Sibelius Violin Concerto. On the surface it was
so right, and yet it was so very wrong.
Concerning his recording of the Brahms and Tchaikovsky violin concertos, an Amazon customer said:

- In a way, it appears that Heifetz's playing is not as heartfelt as Menuhin or Thibaud. But his appeal or heat if you like, could be seen from his overall consistent command and control of the whole piece. He is so expressive here ( and in fact everywhere he played) and there is so much drama here. Above all, here we see a rare sense of beauty, plus a subtle understanding of all the ups and downs of life in his playing that is rare among musicians, something which transcended him from a musician to that of an artist. Feuermann and Kreisler or Thibaud, each in a different way, were close.
Andrew Clarke
2018-04-03 01:40:37 UTC
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"My friend Askew, who has yet to remember a single line correctly, does not like Sir Lawrence Olivier. He says he has no soul in his voice." - Michael Green, The Art of Coarse Acting.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
graham
2018-04-03 03:07:55 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
"My friend Askew, who has yet to remember a single line correctly, does not like Sir Lawrence Olivier. He says he has no soul in his voice." - Michael Green, The Art of Coarse Acting.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I prefer this:

(unfortunately, too short a clip)
I have the DVD of Pacino's version that is superb.

To this:

g***@gmail.com
2018-09-02 07:23:16 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
- To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable!

Ludwig van Beethoven
g***@gmail.com
2018-09-21 04:34:27 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
A rec.music.opera poster said:

- To my ears, Levine is a conductor typical of his era: technically accomplished but largely devoid of a viewpoint and/or the means to make a score come to life.
O
2018-09-21 17:27:36 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
- To my ears, Levine is a conductor typical of his era: technically
accomplished but largely devoid of a viewpoint and/or the means to make a
score come to life.
I strongly disagree with that poster. Although he was apparently a
pervert, he was one of the great conductors of our day, getting
performances to "come to life" as good as any other.

-Owen

P.S. If Toscanini were found to have committed perversions, would we
have a different opinion on his performances?

-O
JohnGavin
2018-09-21 19:28:59 UTC
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This may ruffle some feathers, because I know he has some admirers, but I feel that Alexis Weissenberg fits the description.
HT
2018-09-21 19:46:31 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
This may ruffle some feathers, because I know he has some admirers, but I feel that Alexis Weissenberg fits the description.
<g> You ruffle mine! I'm a great fan of Sigi.

Henk
Ricardo Jimenez
2018-09-21 22:45:00 UTC
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 12:28:59 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin
Post by JohnGavin
This may ruffle some feathers, because I know he has some admirers, but I feel that Alexis Weissenberg fits the description.
Is this another way to state the topic? A performer who is good at
getting the notes correct but doesn't vary tempo, voicings and
dynamics enough to make listening that interesting.
g***@gmail.com
2018-09-21 23:20:24 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 12:28:59 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin
Post by JohnGavin
This may ruffle some feathers, because I know he has some admirers, but I feel that Alexis Weissenberg fits the description.
Is this another way to state the topic? A performer who is good at
getting the notes correct but doesn't vary tempo, voicings and
dynamics enough to make listening that interesting.
Is it a matter of performers thinking of the score as less of a blueprint filled with specific directions and more as an outline providing a bit of leeway here and there for performers who are perceptive enough to recognize that leeway and sensitive enough to put something of themselves into the music?
HT
2018-09-21 19:44:50 UTC
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Post by O
P.S. If Toscanini were found to have committed perversions, would we
have a different opinion on his performances?
An interesting question. It is a question I asked myself when Pletnev was accused of molesting a child. Until then, I regularly listened to his recordings. That came to an end at once. That wasn't because of the quality of his recordings. Apparently I have to be able to listen to music 'undisturbed'. The real world should not interfere.
I don't have that problem with writers and painters.

Henk
Frank Berger
2018-09-21 21:04:08 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by O
P.S. If Toscanini were found to have committed perversions, would we
have a different opinion on his performances?
An interesting question. It is a question I asked myself when Pletnev was accused of molesting a child. Until then, I regularly listened to his recordings. That came to an end at once. That wasn't because of the quality of his recordings. Apparently I have to be able to listen to music 'undisturbed'. The real world should not interfere.
I don't have that problem with writers and painters.
Henk
I struggle with Roger Waters and the other members of Pink Floyd also.
They are among my all-time favorite rock groups, but his extreme
activism in the Boycott/Divestment movement against Israel is
off-putting. (For me, that is - I don't want to start a discussion of
that at all). It has damaged, shall we say, my ability to enjoy his music.
g***@gmail.com
2018-09-21 23:17:55 UTC
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Post by O
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
- To my ears, Levine is a conductor typical of his era: technically
accomplished but largely devoid of a viewpoint and/or the means to make a
score come to life.
I strongly disagree with that poster. Although he was apparently a
pervert, he was one of the great conductors of our day, getting
performances to "come to life" as good as any other.
-Owen
P.S. If Toscanini were found to have committed perversions, would we
have a different opinion on his performances?
-O
That Levine comment was made long before the recent 'revelations'.
g***@gmail.com
2018-10-19 02:20:26 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
According to this:

- Most people realize that bringing out the true nature of the score is not just a matter of playing the notes with perfect accuracy, but we have pragmatically learned to settle for precision in lieu of insight.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/wolf-lieder-schwarkopf-1953/458501200
g***@gmail.com
2018-10-26 22:53:35 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Concerning the recording of Franck's Symphony in D minor by Wilhelm Furtwängler, Vienna Philharmonic (1953, Decca, 40'):

- And then, when all is said and done, there's Furtwängler. His widely-circulated and readily-available 1953 recording, one of two he made for Decca, is typical of his studio product with the Vienna Philharmonic – rich, smooth, patient, refined, spiritual, beautifully played – and utterly uninspiring.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/franck.html
g***@gmail.com
2019-05-01 07:05:03 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
According to this on Gestzy's 2nd recording of Zerbinetta's aria:

- And yet, although technically secure with nicely rolled trills, fluent coloratura, and a beautiful top E, it offers no hint of Zerbinetta's character; is too lachrymose and monochromatic to be successful on any terms but technical.

http://www.divalegacy.com/php/main_pages.php?CategoryID=2&AuthorID=1&ID=10
g***@gmail.com
2019-06-05 06:44:32 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
That was said by someone on Youtube concerning his recording of Faure's Nocturne #13.
C. Ikehara
2020-12-01 16:23:36 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Did Reiner's Scheherezade lack 'humanity'? An Amazon customer said:

- Reiner's account of Scheherazade would be a main competitor from the same era and delivers a level of white hot tension and excitement in the last movement especially which was apparently recorded in one complete take. It too was very well recorded and would be hard to beat, let alone match, for its dramatic qualities. Nevertheless Monteux offers plenty of excitement with rather more humanity as seasoned collectors would expect....

https://www.amazon.com/Korsakov-Rimsky-Scheherazade-Russian-Easter/dp/B00YWLBFX4/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=pierre+monteux+rimsky&qid=1559177954&s=music&sr=1-6
gggg gggg
2020-12-25 21:05:47 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
Concerning Reiner's SCHEHERAZADE:

- ...My reaction to quite a bit of Reiner's work, i.e. technically brilliant but...

https://www.talkclassical.com/61652-what-scheherazade-should-i-2.html
C. Ikehara
2020-12-25 21:14:50 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
- ...My reaction to quite a bit of Reiner's work, i.e. technically brilliant but...
https://www.talkclassical.com/61652-what-scheherazade-should-i-2.html
According to this:

- ...I think Scheherazade at its heart is a flashy orchestral showpiece that is meant to delight and beguile and I think formal seriousness is out of place here, which is why I really don’t like the famous Reiner - dry and analytical doesn’t cut it for me here.

https://www.talkclassical.com/61652-what-scheherazade-should-i-3.html?s=2abee161bcc72da3c8841215b3c8dd76
gggg gggg
2021-01-09 00:18:02 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:00:59 PM UTC-7,
Post by g***@gmail.com
Horowitz?
According to this:

- Kaplan's reading is sterile. Every note is in the right place, every tempo is scrupulously observed, every accent is correct. The London Symphony Orchestra plays well for him - far better than they did in their Stokowski and Bernstein recordings - but they seem to be merely performing their duty rather than performing one of the most boldly impassioned works in all of music. Despite the thoroughness of the scholarship and the sincerity of the intentions, something essential is missing - the vision of an artist. For the Resurrection, it takes the unfettered wildness of Oskar Fried, the warm humanity of Bruno Walter, the steadfast inertia of Otto Klemperer, the huge power of Georg Solti, the surprising freshness of Carl Schuricht or the overwhelming emotion of Leonard Bernstein. Craftsmanship may get by with perspiration, but art demands inspiration.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/reviews/onehit.html

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