Discussion:
Outstanding 2021 cds
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gggg gggg
2021-11-20 07:53:37 UTC
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HT
2021-11-20 10:22:56 UTC
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Beatrice Rana's Chopin études and scherzi.

Henk
gggg gggg
2021-11-25 00:00:54 UTC
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??????????????????
Grammy classical nominees:

75. Best Engineered Album, Classical
An Engineer's Award. (Artist names appear in parentheses.)

Archetypes
Jonathan Lackey, Bill Maylone & Dan Nichols, engineers; Bill Maylone, mastering engineer (Sérgio Assad, Clarice Assad & Third Coast Percussion)

Beethoven: Cello Sonatas - Hope Amid Tears
Richard King, engineer (Yo-Yo Ma & Emanuel Ax)

Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
Mark Donahue, engineer; Mark Donahue, mastering engineer (Manfred Honeck, Mendelssohn Choir Of Pittsburgh & Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra)
Chanticleer Sings Christmas
Leslie Ann Jones, engineer (Chanticleer)

Mahler: Symphony No. 8, 'Symphony Of A Thousand'
Alexander Lipay & Dmitriy Lipay, engineers; Alexander Lipay & Dmitriy Lipay, mastering engineers (Gustavo Dudamel, Fernando Malvar-Ruiz, Luke McEndarfer, Robert Istad, Grant Gershon, Los Angeles Children's Chorus, Los Angeles Master Chorale, National Children's Chorus, Pacific Chorale & Los Angeles Philharmonic)
76. Producer Of The Year, Classical
A Producer's Award. (Artist names appear in parentheses.)

Blanton Alspaugh
Appear And Inspire (James Franklin & The East Carolina University Chamber Singers) (A)
Howells: Requiem (Brian Schmidt & Baylor University A Cappella Choir) (A)
Hymns Of Kassianí (Alexander Lingas & Cappella Romana) (A)
Kyr: In Praise Of Music (Joshua Copeland & Antioch Chamber Ensemble) (A)
More Honourable Than The Cherubim (Vladimir Gorbik & PaTRAM Institute Male Choir) (A)
O'Regan: The Phoenix (Patrick Summers, Thomas Hampson, Chad Shelton, Rihab Chaieb, Lauren Snouffer, Houston Grand Opera & Houston Grand Opera Orchestra) (A)
Sheehan: Liturgy Of Saint John Chrysostom (Benedict Sheehan & The Saint Tikhon Choir) (A)

Steven Epstein
Bach And Brahms Re-Imagined (Jens Lindemann, James Ehnes & Jon Kimura Parker) (A)
Bartók: Quartet No. 3; Beethoven: Op. 59, No. 2; Dvořák: American Quartet (Juilliard String Quartet) (A)
Beethoven: Cello Sonatas - Hope Amid Tears (Yo-Yo Ma & Emanuel Ax) (A)
Mozart: Piano Concertos Nos. 9 & 17, Arr. For Piano, String Quartet And Double Bass (Alon Goldstein, Alexander Bickard & Fine Arts Quartet) (A)
Songs Of Comfort And Hope (Yo-Yo Ma & Kathryn Stott) (A)

David Frost
Chamber Works By Dmitri Klebanov (ARC Ensemble) (A)
Glass: Akhnaten (Karen Kamensek, J’Nai Bridges, Dísella Lárusdóttir, Zachary James, Anthony Roth Costanzo, Metropolitan Opera Chorus & Orchestra) (A)
Mon Ami, Mon Amour (Matt Haimovitz & Mari Kodama) (A)
One Movement Symphonies - Barber, Sibelius, Scriabin (Michael Stern & Kansas City Symphony) (A)
Poulenc: Dialogues Des Carmélites (Yannick Nézet-Séguin, Isabel Leonard, Erin Morley, Adrianne Pieczonka, Karita Mattila, Karen Cargill, Metropolitan Opera Chorus & Orchestra) (A)
Primavera I - The Wind (Matt Haimovitz) (A)
Roots (Randall Goosby & Zhu Wang) (A)

Elaine Martone
Archetypes (Sérgio Assad, Clarice Assad & Third Coast Percussion) (A)
Beneath The Sky (Zoe Allen & Levi Hernandez) (A)
Davis: Family Secrets - Kith & Kin (Timothy Myers, Andrea Edith Moore & Jane Holding) (A)
Quest (Elisabeth Remy Johnson) (A)
Schubert: Symphony In C Major, 'The Great'; Krenek: Static & Ecstatic (Franz Welser-Möst & The Cleveland Orchestra) (A)

Judith Sherman
Alone Together (Jennifer Koh) (A)
Bach & Beyond Part 3 (Jennifer Koh) (A)
Bruits (Imani Winds) (A)
Eryilmaz: Dances Of The Yogurt Maker (Erberk Eryilmaz & Carpe Diem String Quartet) (A)
Fantasy - Oppens Plays Kaminsky (Ursula Oppens) (A)
Home (Blythe Gaissert) (A)
Mendelssohn, Visconti & Golijov (Jasper String Quartet & Jupiter String Quartet) (A)
A Schubert Journey (Llŷr Williams) (A)
Vers Le Silence - William Bolcom & Frédéric Chopin (Ran Dank) (A)
CLASSICAL
77. Best Orchestral Performance
Award to the Conductor and to the Orchestra.

Adams: My Father Knew Charles Ives; Harmonielehre
Giancarlo Guerrero, conductor (Nashville Symphony Orchestra)

Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
Manfred Honeck, conductor (Mendelssohn Choir Of Pittsburgh & Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra)

Muhly: Throughline
Nico Muhly, conductor (San Francisco Symphony)

Price: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3
Yannick Nézet-Séguin, conductor (Philadelphia Orchestra)

Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra; Scriabin: The Poem Of Ecstasy
Thomas Dausgaard, conductor (Seattle Symphony Orchestra)
78. Best Opera Recording
Award to the Conductor, Album Producer(s) and Principal Soloists.

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle
Susanna Mälkki, conductor; Mika Kares & Szilvia Vörös; Robert Suff, producer (Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra)

Glass: Akhnaten
Karen Kamensek, conductor; J’Nai Bridges, Anthony Roth Costanzo, Zachary James & Dísella Lárusdóttir; David Frost, producer (The Metropolitan Opera Orchestra; The Metropolitan Opera Chorus)

Janáček: Cunning Little Vixen
Simon Rattle, conductor; Sophia Burgos, Lucy Crowe, Gerald Finley, Peter Hoare, Anna Lapkovskaja, Paulina Malefane, Jan Martinik & Hanno Müller-Brachmann; Andrew Cornall, producer (London Symphony Orchestra; London Symphony Chorus & LSO Discovery Voices)

Little: Soldier Songs
Corrado Rovaris, conductor; Johnathan McCullough; James Darrah & John Toia, producers (The Opera Philadelphia Orchestra)

Poulenc: Dialogues Des Carmélites
Yannick Nézet-Séguin, conductor; Karen Cargill, Isabel Leonard, Karita Mattila, Erin Morley & Adrianne Pieczonka; David Frost, producer (The Metropolitan Opera Orchestra; The Metropolitan Opera Chorus)
79. Best Choral Performance

Award to the Conductor, and to the Choral Director and/or Chorus Master where applicable and to the Choral Organization/Ensemble.

It's A Long Way
Matthew Guard, conductor (Jonas Budris, Carrie Cheron, Fiona Gillespie, Nathan Hodgson, Helen Karloski, Enrico Lagasca, Megan Roth, Alissa Ruth Suver & Dana Whiteside; Skylark Vocal Ensemble)

Mahler: Symphony No. 8, 'Symphony Of A Thousand'
Gustavo Dudamel, conductor; Grant Gershon, Robert Istad, Fernando Malvar-Ruiz & Luke McEndarfer, chorus masters (Leah Crocetto, Mihoko Fujimura, Ryan McKinny, Erin Morley, Tamara Mumford, Simon O'Neill, Morris Robinson & Tamara Wilson; Los Angeles Philharmonic; Los Angeles Children's Chorus, Los Angeles Master Chorale, National Children’s Chorus & Pacific Chorale)

Rising w/The Crossing
Donald Nally, conductor (International Contemporary Ensemble & Quicksilver; The Crossing)

Schnittke: Choir Concerto; Three Sacred Hymns; Pärt: Seven Magnificat-Antiphons
Kaspars Putniņš, conductor; Heli Jürgenson, chorus master (Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir)

Sheehan: Liturgy Of Saint John Chrysostom
Benedict Sheehan, conductor (Michael Hawes, Timothy Parsons & Jason Thoms; The Saint Tikhon Choir)

The Singing Guitar
Craig Hella Johnson, conductor (Estelí Gomez; Austin Guitar Quartet, Douglas Harvey, Los Angeles Guitar Quartet & Texas Guitar Quartet; Conspirare)
80. Best Chamber Music/Small Ensemble Performance

For new recordings of works with chamber or small ensemble (twenty-four or fewer members, not including the conductor). One Award to the ensemble and one Award to the conductor, if applicable.

Adams, John Luther: Lines Made By Walking
JACK Quartet

Akiho: Seven Pillars
Sandbox Percussion

Archetypes
Sérgio Assad, Clarice Assad & Third Coast Percussion

Beethoven: Cello Sonatas - Hope Amid Tears
Yo-Yo Ma & Emanuel Ax

Bruits
Imani Winds
81. Best Classical Instrumental Solo
Award to the Instrumental Soloist(s) and to the Conductor when applicable.

Alone Together
Jennifer Koh

An American Mosaic
Simone Dinnerstein

Bach: Sonatas & Partitas
Augustin Hadelich

Beethoven & Brahms: Violin Concertos
Gil Shaham; Eric Jacobsen, conductor (The Knights)

Mak Bach
Mak Grgić

Of Power
Curtis Stewart
82. Best Classical Solo Vocal Album
Award to: Vocalist(s), Collaborative Artist(s) (Ex: pianists, conductors, chamber groups) Producer(s), Recording Engineers/Mixers with 51% or more playing time of new material.

Confessions
Laura Strickling; Joy Schreier, pianist

Dreams Of A New Day - Songs By Black Composers
Will Liverman; Paul Sánchez, pianist

Mythologies
Sangeeta Kaur & Hila Plitmann (Virginie D'Avezac De Castera, Lili Haydn, Wouter Kellerman, Nadeem Majdalany, Eru Matsumoto & Emilio D. Miler)

Schubert: Winterreise
Joyce DiDonato; Yannick Nézet-Séguin, pianist

Unexpected Shadows
Jamie Barton; Jake Heggie, pianist (Matt Haimovitz)
83. Best Classical Compendium
Award to the Artist(s) and to the Album Producer(s) and Engineer(s) of over 51% playing time of the album, if other than the artist.

American Originals - A New World, A New Canon
AGAVE & Reginald L. Mobley; Geoffrey Silver, producer

Berg: Violin Concerto; Seven Early Songs & Three Pieces For Orchestra
Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor; Jack Vad, producer

Cerrone: The Arching Path
Timo Andres & Ian Rosenbaum; Mike Tierney, producer

Plays
Chick Corea; Chick Corea & Birnie Kirsh, producers

Women Warriors - The Voices Of Change
Amy Andersson, conductor; Amy Andersson, Mark Mattson & Lolita Ritmanis, producers
84. Best Contemporary Classical Composition

A Composer's Award. (For a contemporary classical composition composed within the last 25 years, and released for the first time during the Eligibility Year.) Award to the librettist, if applicable.

Akiho: Seven Pillars
Andy Akiho, composer (Sandbox Percussion)

Andriessen: The Only One
Louis Andriessen, composer (Esa-Pekka Salonen, Nora Fischer & Los Angeles Philharmonic)

Assad, Clarice & Sérgio, Connors, Dillon, Martin & Skidmore: Archetypes
Clarice Assad, Sérgio Assad, Sean Connors, Robert Dillon, Peter Martin & David Skidmore, composers (Sérgio Assad, Clarice Assad & Third Coast Percussion)

Batiste: Movement 11'
Jon Batiste, composer (Jon Batiste)

Shaw: Narrow Sea
Caroline Shaw, composer (Dawn Upshaw, Gilbert Kalish & Sō Percussion)

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/2022-grammys-complete-winners-nominees-nominations-list
gggg gggg
2021-12-17 07:50:26 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
??????????????????
https://news.google.com/search?q=classical%20music%20recordings&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
Frank Berger
2021-12-17 20:53:42 UTC
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Thanks for these links, much appreciated.
FWIW, from Presto:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4397--awards-recordings-of-the-year-2021-our-top-10
Andrew Clarke
2021-12-18 14:59:31 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Thanks for these links, much appreciated.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4397--awards-recordings-of-the-year-2021-our-top-10
The Presto Classical list happens to include

English Music For Strings / Sinfonia of London, John Wilson

When I mentioned this man earlier on this list, I was howled down because he'd conducted a pops concert of Rogers and Hammerstein at the Proms with an orchestra named after himself. Maybe there's just a little bit more to the man than that?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
HT
2021-12-18 16:01:47 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Frank Berger
Thanks for these links, much appreciated.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4397--awards-recordings-of-the-year-2021-our-top-10
The Presto Classical list happens to include
English Music For Strings / Sinfonia of London, John Wilson
When I mentioned this man earlier on this list, I was howled down because he'd conducted a pops concert of Rogers and Hammerstein at the Proms with an orchestra named after himself. Maybe there's just a little bit more to the man than that?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
"More" according to Presto, and probably also Gramophone. No surprise: it's English music, by an English orchestra and an English conductor.

Henk
Andrew Clarke
2021-12-18 21:32:15 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Frank Berger
Thanks for these links, much appreciated.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4397--awards-recordings-of-the-year-2021-our-top-10
The Presto Classical list happens to include
English Music For Strings / Sinfonia of London, John Wilson
When I mentioned this man earlier on this list, I was howled down because he'd conducted a pops concert of Rogers and Hammerstein at the Proms with an orchestra named after himself. Maybe there's just a little bit more to the man than that?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
"More" according to Presto, and probably also Gramophone. No surprise: it's English music, by an English orchestra and an English conductor.
Henk
Unfortunately for this theory, Mr Wilson is renowned for his conducting of French and American music ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Chris from Lafayette
2021-12-18 19:44:44 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
The Presto Classical list happens to include
English Music For Strings / Sinfonia of London, John Wilson
When I mentioned this man earlier on this list, I was howled down because he'd conducted a pops concert of Rogers and Hammerstein at the Proms with an orchestra named after himself. Maybe there's just a little bit more to the man than that?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I don't think I was in on that previous discussion. I generally like Wilson's conducting - quite a bit actually, including his four volumes of Copland, his Respighi Roman Trilogy, his "Escales" (French music) album, and his album of Brass Fanfares - all on Chandos. He has a bit of a predilection for fast tempos, which I mostly don't mind. In fact, his tempos on his "Escales" album remind me of those of Paul Paray - and you can't get more classic than that IMHO. Oh yes. . . I like his lighter music Proms concerts on YouTube which you alluded to also (R&H, Broadway, Hollywood, Gershwin). He's very fortunate in that he receives such fine engineering (of the MCh persuasion!) from Chandos.
Todd M. McComb
2021-12-19 03:29:31 UTC
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I decided to check out the Ligeti Etudes. Anyone a big fan of
those?
Dan Koren
2021-12-19 06:25:16 UTC
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Post by Todd M. McComb
I decided to check out the Ligeti
Etudes. Anyone a big fan of those?
Big fan, probably not. How big is big
anyways? They are certainly worth
listening to and practicing. I do not
plan however to listen to or buy every
version ever recorded as I do for the
Chopin, Scriabin and Rachmaninov
etudes, or for the Treifscendentals.

I will probably get one complete set
for ease of reference, then download
outstanding singletons from YouTube
or other sources.

dk
Todd M. McComb
2021-12-19 17:52:28 UTC
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How big is big anyways?
That part will likely need to remain a thought experiment, but
perhaps, "big enough to advocate for the works...."
Ricardo Jimenez
2021-12-19 16:18:53 UTC
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 04:16:09 -0800 (PST), Andy Evans
Heard this on the BBC - not a follower of early music but this was fun.
Amazone https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8933523--amazone
I hated the Rattle Cunning Little Vixen, the singing was entirely wrong in style and I can't say much more for the conducting.
I'm very fond of the Prague National Theatre performance on Supraphon. I've seen this opera three times in Prague and Brno and there is absolutely nothing like an authentic Czech performance. Stick to the Supraphon versions of Janacek's operas and leave Mackerras and the rest strictly alone. Don't be fooled by reviews praising these.
Then it is unfortunate that their is no Prague or Brno performance on
DVD. I have three Vixen DVDs of non Czech performances, all
delightful to me:
1. An abreviated cartoon version in English from the BBC.
2. Mackerras' 1995 Paris performance with Thomas Allen.
3. Ozawa's 2009 blu-ray Florence performance.

The latter two are sung in Czech with English subtitles.
Ricardo Jimenez
2021-12-20 00:55:26 UTC
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 11:18:53 -0500, Ricardo Jimenez
Post by Ricardo Jimenez
On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 04:16:09 -0800 (PST), Andy Evans
Heard this on the BBC - not a follower of early music but this was fun.
Amazone https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8933523--amazone
I hated the Rattle Cunning Little Vixen, the singing was entirely wrong in style and I can't say much more for the conducting.
I'm very fond of the Prague National Theatre performance on Supraphon. I've seen this opera three times in Prague and Brno and there is absolutely nothing like an authentic Czech performance. Stick to the Supraphon versions of Janacek's operas and leave Mackerras and the rest strictly alone. Don't be fooled by reviews praising these.
Then it is unfortunate that their is no Prague or Brno performance on
DVD. I have three Vixen DVDs of non Czech performances, all
1. An abreviated cartoon version in English from the BBC.
2. Mackerras' 1995 Paris performance with Thomas Allen.
3. Ozawa's 2009 blu-ray Florence performance.
The latter two are sung in Czech with English subtitles.
I have multiple versions of DVDs of all the major Janecek operas and
not a single one is from Czechoslovakia. Same for my Rusalka DVDs.
The only Czech DVD of a Czech opera, which I know about, is the 1981
TV production of the Bartered Bride.
Frank Berger
2021-12-19 16:38:53 UTC
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Heard this on the BBC - not a follower of early music but this was fun.
Amazone https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8933523--amazone
I hated the Rattle Cunning Little Vixen, the singing was entirely wrong in style and I can't say much more for the conducting.
I'm very fond of the Prague National Theatre performance on Supraphon. I've seen this opera three times in Prague and Brno and there is absolutely nothing like an authentic Czech performance. Stick to the Supraphon versions of Janacek's operas and leave Mackerras and the rest strictly alone. Don't be fooled by reviews praising these.
It would be useful if a statement like this were supported by some explanation of why you feel this way. If it's primarily because of the language, then the comment would be pretty useless to me and others that wouldn't know good Czech from bad Czech If it's something else, why not tell us what it is?
Andy Evans
2021-12-20 01:05:22 UTC
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It would be useful if a statement like this were supported by some explanation of why you feel this way. If it's primarily because of the language, then the comment would be pretty useless to me and others that wouldn't know good Czech from bad Czech If it's something else, why not tell us what it is?
Sure. Janacek was very open about writing his vocal parts in such a way as they would be spoken. So it's more than just pronouncing the Czech language, it's getting the inflexions right and understanding how to sing the parts. If you are familiar with Czech singers you will also know that they have very clear bell-like voices, and this is pretty important in how to sing the parts. These are the kind of voices that Janacek wrote for. So for example, listen to The Cunning Little Vixen: Act III, Scene VII, "A Vixen's Running Through The Woods..." in the Prague Theatre/Gregor version. Wonderfully clean and rhythmic and very idiomatic. And then listen to Rattle/LSO. Woolly, unidiomatic singing. His first version with the BPO is even worse.



And now Prague/Gregor from 1.15.45
It's so comprehensively cleaner, better sung and authentic.

In addition, there are dances in some of Janacek's operas, notably Daleko Siroko in Act 1 of Jenufa. In the Prague Theatre/Jilek this swings in an authentic way. In Mackerras, for instance, it just doesn't.

Jilek:

Jilek Brno from 20.20


The award winning BBC animated version of Cunning Little Vixen with Nagano was mentioned, and this is indeed wonderful. No singing but the animation is utterly charming. A real gem.


mINE109
2021-12-20 16:03:52 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Sure. Janacek was very open about writing his vocal parts in such a
way as they would be spoken. So it's more than just pronouncing the
Czech language, it's getting the inflexions right and understanding
how to sing the parts. If you are familiar with Czech singers you
will also know that they have very clear bell-like voices, and this
is pretty important in how to sing the parts. These are the kind of
voices that Janacek wrote for. So for example, listen to The Cunning
Little Vixen: Act III, Scene VII, "A Vixen's Running Through The
Woods..." in the Prague Theatre/Gregor version. Wonderfully clean and
rhythmic and very idiomatic. And then listen to Rattle/LSO. Woolly,
unidiomatic singing. His first version with the BPO is even worse.
http://youtu.be/hYaDXVVOAVs
http://youtu.be/QSQDwtbtnFs
And now Prague/Gregor from 1.15.45
http://youtu.be/4g69DoApIv8 It's so
comprehensively cleaner, better sung and authentic.
Thanks for these specific examples! I've seen many references to the
character of the Czech language but haven't been able to hear them in
the versions available when I listened.
Dan Koren
2021-12-21 06:03:20 UTC
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For those who understand Czech, I have a question.
I have been searching for years for the lyrics of "Poeme"
JARMILA NOVOTNA SINGS-POEME-zedenek fibich 1931
At Twilight. Idyll for Orchestra, Op. 39 - Poem
And the question is ..... ?!?

dk
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-12-21 06:19:21 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
For those who understand Czech, I have a question.
I have been searching for years for the lyrics of "Poeme"
JARMILA NOVOTNA SINGS-POEME-zedenek fibich 1931
At Twilight. Idyll for Orchestra, Op. 39 - Poem
And the question is ..... ?!?
dk
He is wanting the lyrics for The above poem, I believe. The song is on Czech Songs and Arias, sung by Jarmila Novotna on Supraphon. Evidently they may not supply the lyrics (Czech or the English translation).

https://www.amazon.com.au/Czech-Songs-Arias/dp/B00000356R/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2UWLGS8HL68Z5&keywords=czech+songs+and+arias&qid=1640066029&s=music&sprefix=czech+songs+and+arias%2Cpopular%2C256&sr=1-2

I like Czech music and culture, but haven't got around to learning Czech, which is reputedly quite difficult. Coincidentally have just finished a listen of Janacek's Cunning Little Vixen, by Neumann (1957). Lovely sounding language, with Czechs generally putting the stress on the first syllable, especially in speech.

Ray Hall, Taree
number_six
2021-12-22 19:54:23 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
If you are familiar with Czech singers you will also know that they have very clear bell-like voices, and this is pretty important in how to sing the parts. These are the kind of voices that Janacek wrote for.
I think you can also hear that kind of singing in certain folk songs -- Tece Voda, Tece and Tancuj, Tancuj come to mind, even with Slovak origins in the second case?
Frank Berger
2021-12-22 23:08:26 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
If you are familiar with Czech singers you will also know that they have very clear bell-like voices, and this is pretty important in how to sing the parts. These are the kind of voices that Janacek wrote for.
Is that because

a) All Czechs are physically endowed with bell-like voices or
b) Czech singers are trained to make bell-like sounds or
c) Only singers with bell-like voices are acceptable in the Czech Republic or
d) some combination of these or
e) something else.

Whatever it is, does it apply to Slovakian singers as well?
Andy Evans
2021-12-23 11:04:32 UTC
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I took Andy's use of "bell-like" to mean unadorned, non-ornamented articulation of the line, and my comment about the singing style in a couple of folk song hinges on that understanding of his chosen descriptor. Let's see if that holds up when he elaborates.>>
I'd like to be able to ask some Czech singers and musicians how their style is established but I don't know any to ask off the top of my head, so I can't directly answer any of Frank's questions. I can certainly hear a difference. European musical traditions grew in some degree of isolation before the media and wide availability of recordings might have reduced some of the uniqueness within cultures. I think it's still there to some extent - Czech trumpets sound a little different from German ones judging from hearing the CPO and Dresden Staatskapalle on successive nights at the Proms. And Russian brass used to sound different with more vibrato.

Folk music could well come into it in countries like Russia, Czechia and Hungary. In "Les Noces" for example you get quite a different vocal sound from a Russian folk singing ensemble.
And in Spain you get a different vocal sound from a flamenco singer in Falla.


So what makes the difference? What I believe I'm hearing is a more direct attack on the note - the Czech singers 'hit the note" with a full voice. They don't ease themselves into the note or slide up to it, they just hit it. You can actually hear the same thing with the Pokrovsky Ensemble and Trinidad Montero above - hitting the note with a full voice. Like striking a bell, so "bell like".

I wondered about a Czech vocal tradition going back a while so I pulled out a recording of the Song to the Moon from Rusalka by Jamila Novotna, born in 1907 and a star at the Met in the 1940s. You can hear this direct attack on the note as compared to some other singers -
Novotna -

Von Stade -


If you go back to the excerpts I posted earlier from the Cunning Little Vixen you can hear the difference quite clearly. The Czech singers are clear and "bell like", right on the notes, and Rattle's cast are frankly really sloppy, a particularly bad example. The Czech singers sing the consonants with a harder attack and their enunciation in general is very clear indeed. By comparison the non-Czechs seem to smooth over the consonants. I think this applies to the male singers as well. So I think it's a language thing, a tradition of clear enunciation and a tradition of hitting the note with a full voice. That's my take on it.
Andy Evans
2021-12-23 13:51:01 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Rattle's cast are frankly really sloppy, a
particularly bad example.
Didn't Magdalena Kožená teach him anything ?!?
Post by Andy Evans
dk
Kožená is the lead in Rattle's Enfant et les Sortileges, another ill-fated production. I knew Rattle a little in college though we didn't hang out - he hung out with Irving Arditti and Lennie McKenzie both of whom went on to distinguished careers. We were all oblivious to Annie Lennox who played flute in the same orchestra as me. Anyway, Simon and I shared a harmony class for a year. I had a pretty good ear and could write treble and bass parts fairly easily, but he could write out the inner parts as well at the same speed. He had an excellent ear. In terms of personality he was easy going and fun - not intense in any obvious way, though he was always very focussed. I think his personality shows up in the Ravel, which is easy-going and fun but not particularly memorable. Same for his Cunning Little Vixen, which is quite sloppy in places.

So no, I don't think Kožená did him any good that I can notice. Rattle did a production of the Ravel in college, so it was always a favourite of his. Shame he doesn't put anything deeper into it. Fun by itself doesn't cut it in L'Enfant - it's much more subtle than that and Collette's writing is a masterpiece.
MickeyBoy
2021-12-23 23:54:52 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by Andy Evans
Rattle's cast are frankly really sloppy, a
particularly bad example.
Didn't Magdalena Kožená teach him anything ?!?
Post by Andy Evans
dk
Kožená is the lead in Rattle's Enfant et les Sortileges, another ill-fated production. I knew Rattle a little in college though we didn't hang out - he hung out with Irving Arditti and Lennie McKenzie both of whom went on to distinguished careers. We were all oblivious to Annie Lennox who played flute in the same orchestra as me. Anyway, Simon and I shared a harmony class for a year. I had a pretty good ear and could write treble and bass parts fairly easily, but he could write out the inner parts as well at the same speed. He had an excellent ear. In terms of personality he was easy going and fun - not intense in any obvious way, though he was always very focussed. I think his personality shows up in the Ravel, which is easy-going and fun but not particularly memorable. Same for his Cunning Little Vixen, which is quite sloppy in places.
So no, I don't think Kožená did him any good that I can notice. Rattle did a production of the Ravel in college, so it was always a favourite of his. Shame he doesn't put anything deeper into it. Fun by itself doesn't cut it in L'Enfant - it's much more subtle than that and Collette's writing is a masterpiece.
Very nice posts, Andy. I particularly liked your brief bit about Ravel's subtlety, a lot of which I am afraid I miss, alas. He was a familier at Mallarme's mardis, so subtlety is of course an under statement.

I would be interested in your opinion about the best Ravel recordings of the last few years, or decades.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-12-24 22:42:39 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Post by Andy Evans
Rattle's cast are frankly really sloppy, a
particularly bad example.
Didn't Magdalena Kožená teach him anything ?!?
Post by Andy Evans
dk
Kožená is the lead in Rattle's Enfant et les Sortileges, another ill-fated production. I knew Rattle a little in college though we didn't hang out - he hung out with Irving Arditti and Lennie McKenzie both of whom went on to distinguished careers. We were all oblivious to Annie Lennox who played flute in the same orchestra as me. Anyway, Simon and I shared a harmony class for a year. I had a pretty good ear and could write treble and bass parts fairly easily, but he could write out the inner parts as well at the same speed. He had an excellent ear. In terms of personality he was easy going and fun - not intense in any obvious way, though he was always very focussed. I think his personality shows up in the Ravel, which is easy-going and fun but not particularly memorable. Same for his Cunning Little Vixen, which is quite sloppy in places.
So no, I don't think Kožená did him any good that I can notice. Rattle did a production of the Ravel in college, so it was always a favourite of his. Shame he doesn't put anything deeper into it. Fun by itself doesn't cut it in L'Enfant - it's much more subtle than that and Collette's writing is a masterpiece.
I think that Ms. Simon Rattle was perhaps more influenced by her husband than he was by her. ;-)
Dan Koren
2022-01-16 06:58:40 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
I think that Ms. Simon Rattle was
perhaps more influenced by her
husband than he was by her. ;-)
She copied his hairdo? ;-)

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2022-01-18 20:13:16 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Post by Chris from Lafayette
I think that Ms. Simon Rattle was
perhaps more influenced by her
husband than he was by her. ;-)
She copied his hairdo? ;-)
dk
Among other things! ;-)

BTW, getting back to the original subject of this thread, I've gotta put some links to my own posts for 2021 faves:

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/classical/messages/3/31170.html

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/classical/messages/3/31183.html

All told, there are about 20 recordings split between these two lists.
cheregi
2021-12-24 00:18:00 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I took Andy's use of "bell-like" to mean unadorned, non-ornamented articulation of the line, and my comment about the singing style in a couple of folk song hinges on that understanding of his chosen descriptor. Let's see if that holds up when he elaborates.>>
I'd like to be able to ask some Czech singers and musicians how their style is established but I don't know any to ask off the top of my head, so I can't directly answer any of Frank's questions. I can certainly hear a difference. European musical traditions grew in some degree of isolation before the media and wide availability of recordings might have reduced some of the uniqueness within cultures. I think it's still there to some extent - Czech trumpets sound a little different from German ones judging from hearing the CPO and Dresden Staatskapalle on successive nights at the Proms. And Russian brass used to sound different with more vibrato.
Folk music could well come into it in countries like Russia, Czechia and Hungary. In "Les Noces" for example you get quite a different vocal sound from a Russian folk singing ensemble.
http://youtu.be/efQP5PjS5-Q And in Spain you get a different vocal sound from a flamenco singer in Falla. http://youtu.be/DlrN5ahvgLk
So what makes the difference? What I believe I'm hearing is a more direct attack on the note - the Czech singers 'hit the note" with a full voice. They don't ease themselves into the note or slide up to it, they just hit it. You can actually hear the same thing with the Pokrovsky Ensemble and Trinidad Montero above - hitting the note with a full voice. Like striking a bell, so "bell like".
I wondered about a Czech vocal tradition going back a while so I pulled out a recording of the Song to the Moon from Rusalka by Jamila Novotna, born in 1907 and a star at the Met in the 1940s. You can hear this direct attack on the note as compared to some other singers -
Novotna - http://youtu.be/6rduEPThwlw
Von Stade - http://youtu.be/UwVYFpY3VL4
If you go back to the excerpts I posted earlier from the Cunning Little Vixen you can hear the difference quite clearly. The Czech singers are clear and "bell like", right on the notes, and Rattle's cast are frankly really sloppy, a particularly bad example. The Czech singers sing the consonants with a harder attack and their enunciation in general is very clear indeed. By comparison the non-Czechs seem to smooth over the consonants. I think this applies to the male singers as well. So I think it's a language thing, a tradition of clear enunciation and a tradition of hitting the note with a full voice. That's my take on it.
This kind of stuff is fascinating. A friend of mine who works in trumpet design told me that even now, trumpets popular in France tend to be have significantly brighter sound than those that sell well in Germany. And the Chinese market prefers trumpets brighter still. cf. these languages' relative degrees of nasality, of course...
Andrew Clarke
2021-12-23 22:59:01 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Andy Evans
If you are familiar with Czech singers you will also know that they have very clear bell-like voices, and this is pretty important in how to sing the parts. These are the kind of voices that Janacek wrote for.
Is that because
a) All Czechs are physically endowed with bell-like voices or
b) Czech singers are trained to make bell-like sounds or
c) Only singers with bell-like voices are acceptable in the Czech Republic or
d) some combination of these or
e) something else.
Whatever it is, does it apply to Slovakian singers as well?
Ask me, how do I feel? little me with my quiet upbringing ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mandryka
2021-12-19 16:45:52 UTC
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I decided to check out the Ligeti Etudes. Anyone a big fan of
those?
I think I like Kei Takumi‘s recording more than Danny Driver’s.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-12-20 00:02:10 UTC
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I decided to check out the Ligeti Etudes. Anyone a big fan of
those?
I think I like Kei Takumi‘s recording more than Danny Driver’s.
For the Ligeti Etudes, I got parked with Aimard's recordings in the early 2000's and haven't yet left the parking spot.

BTW, I was doing some accompanying for Natasha Paremski around that time, and she was also learning a couple of the Ligeti Etudes. However, she got a very bad case of the flu right in the middle of learning them. At her next lesson, she told her teacher that she had been very sick while learning these Etudes. The teacher replied, "Oh, don't worry about that - that's completely normal! You were just infected with the Ligeti disease - It happens to everybody studying these pieces!". ;-)
Todd M. McComb
2021-12-20 00:26:54 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
For the Ligeti Etudes, I got parked with Aimard's recordings in the
early 2000's and haven't yet left the parking spot.
To what do you attribute the level of attention directed toward the
Driver version?
Chris from Lafayette
2021-12-20 00:34:05 UTC
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Post by Todd M. McComb
Post by Chris from Lafayette
For the Ligeti Etudes, I got parked with Aimard's recordings in the
early 2000's and haven't yet left the parking spot.
To what do you attribute the level of attention directed toward the
Driver version?
Haven't heard the Driver performances, and, frankly, did not know that there was a high level of attention directed toward this particular recording. I've heard some other recordings by Driver and they've seemed fine to me.
Todd M. McComb
2021-12-20 00:37:24 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Haven't heard the Driver performances, and, frankly, did not know that
there was a high level of attention directed toward this particular
recording.
Ah, fair enough. It's on ROY lists, seemingly pushing these pieces
a little farther into the mainstream....
Todd M. McComb
2021-12-20 22:13:41 UTC
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Actually, I think that these Ligeti Etudes are about as far into
the mainstream as a "modern" piece can go these days!
Yes, I guess I was surprised that pieces by Ligeti had become
"popular"....
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-12-19 23:55:24 UTC
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Heard this on the BBC - not a follower of early music but this was fun.
Amazone https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8933523--amazone
I hated the Rattle Cunning Little Vixen, the singing was entirely wrong in style and I can't say much more for the conducting.
I'm very fond of the Prague National Theatre performance on Supraphon. I've seen this opera three times in Prague and Brno and there is absolutely nothing like an authentic Czech performance. Stick to the Supraphon versions of Janacek's operas and leave Mackerras and the rest strictly alone. Don't be fooled by reviews praising these.
I have Neumann's earliest recording with Prague forces (recorded 1957). It still sounds terrific despite its age and being in mono. Hana Bohmova is the vixen. I got the Mackerras Vienna recording, being available inexpensively, and have yet to give it a hearing.

Ray Hall, Taree
Andy Evans
2021-12-20 01:26:21 UTC
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I have Neumann's earliest recording with Prague forces (recorded 1957). It still sounds terrific despite its age and being in mono. > Ray Hall, Taree
I have Neumann and it is indeed a good version. But I prefer Gregor in almost all respects, and a much better recording. All the Supraphon Janacek operas are worth having. Marvellous operas and I listen to them all a lot. It was a cherished memory seeing some of these live in Prague and Brno. Prague is a smallish and very traditional theatre with quite dead acoustics. Brno is much larger and more resonant. Both good, but very different.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-12-20 22:18:23 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I have Neumann's earliest recording with Prague forces (recorded 1957). It still sounds terrific despite its age and being in mono. > Ray Hall, Taree
I have Neumann and it is indeed a good version. But I prefer Gregor in almost all respects, and a much better recording. All the Supraphon Janacek operas are worth having. Marvellous operas and I listen to them all a lot. It was a cherished memory seeing some of these live in Prague and Brno. Prague is a smallish and very traditional theatre with quite dead acoustics. Brno is much larger and more resonant. Both good, but very different.
Even aside from the Czech/Supraphon performances, I think there is something fundamentally more honest about the Czech engineering on some of those Janacek opera albums. I'm thinking in particular of the Krombholc recording of Katya Kabanova, where I'm just not as aware of the forests of microphones and "storm consoles" so typical of the Decca/London sound after a certain point in their history.
Andy Evans
2021-12-20 22:38:58 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Even aside from the Czech/Supraphon performances, I think there is something fundamentally more honest about the Czech engineering on some of those Janacek opera albums. I'm thinking in particular of the Krombholc recording of Katya Kabanova, where I'm just not as aware of the forests of microphones and "storm consoles" so typical of the Decca/London sound after a certain point in their history.
Yes, agree totally. The engineering really serves the performances. All the guys seem to understand each other very well. When I was in Prague I became aware of the teamwork everyone developed while resisting the Soviet occupation. May be fanciful to apply that to recordings, but could be something.
gggg gggg
2021-12-24 08:32:25 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Andy Evans
I have Neumann's earliest recording with Prague forces (recorded 1957). It still sounds terrific despite its age and being in mono. > Ray Hall, Taree
I have Neumann and it is indeed a good version. But I prefer Gregor in almost all respects, and a much better recording. All the Supraphon Janacek operas are worth having. Marvellous operas and I listen to them all a lot. It was a cherished memory seeing some of these live in Prague and Brno. Prague is a smallish and very traditional theatre with quite dead acoustics. Brno is much larger and more resonant. Both good, but very different.
Even aside from the Czech/Supraphon performances, I think there is something fundamentally more honest about the Czech engineering on some of those Janacek opera albums. I'm thinking in particular of the Krombholc recording of Katya Kabanova, where I'm just not as aware of the forests of microphones and "storm consoles" so typical of the Decca/London sound after a certain point in their history.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/XFRjYUGlFAI/m/-In1Z0T1CgAJ
gggg gggg
2021-12-20 07:46:18 UTC
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??????????????????
https://www.wfmt.com/2021/12/15/2021s-top-9-classical-christmas-albums
gggg gggg
2021-12-21 16:20:27 UTC
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??????????????????
(Recent Y. upload):

The KOLA (Keep On Listening Awards)! Featuring the 10 Best Recordings of 2021
James Goodzeit
2021-12-22 16:39:14 UTC
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??????????????????
Really enjoying https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099C8F91X
gggg gggg
2021-12-27 08:24:17 UTC
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On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 9:53:39 PM UTC-10, wrote:

https://news.google.com/search?q=best%20classical&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
gggg gggg
2021-12-31 06:10:48 UTC
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??????????????????
(Recent Y. upload):

The 2021 ALDAs (Avoid Like Death Awards) Are Here!
gggg gggg
2022-01-15 23:28:59 UTC
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??????????????????
(Recent Y. upload):

Best of Deutsche Grammophon 2021
gggg gggg
2022-01-18 03:54:39 UTC
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??????????????????
(Recent Y. upload(:

Classical Recordings of the Year 2021: A Special Gramophone Podcast
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