Discussion:
Moravec Portrait
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Alan Cooper
2020-10-21 18:37:21 UTC
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https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).

Self-recommending, compiled from diverse labels, featuring first official digital reissues of some items, including the famous Beethoven "Pastoral" from CS, the Nonesuch Brahms & Schumann, etc. Scheduled for issue in a couple of days @about the equivalent of $55 list price for 11 CDs + 1 DVD.

AC
Henk vT
2020-10-21 18:48:30 UTC
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Thanks!

Henk
Graham
2020-10-22 00:54:12 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Thanks!
Henk
I'm a fan of Moravec but draw the line at the recordings made in Manhattan.
The piano sound is appalling. As an example. I listened to his Franck PC&F
this afternoon. A superb performance ruined by what sounds like a
honky-tonk, bar-room piano.
Steve Emerson
2020-10-22 18:35:02 UTC
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Post by Graham
Post by Henk vT
Thanks!
Henk
I'm a fan of Moravec but draw the line at the recordings made in Manhattan.
The piano sound is appalling. As an example. I listened to his Franck PC&F
this afternoon. A superb performance ruined by what sounds like a
honky-tonk, bar-room piano.
This might be "BA" (Baldwin aversion). When you say recordings made in Manhattan, do you mean the Connoisseur material produced by E. Alan Silver (which includes the Franck as well as most of what put Moravec on the map)? These btw are not the only IM recordings made in Manhattan, as the Max Wilcox-produced stuff (for Nonesuch, Schumann/Brahms and Janacek; for Vox, "Plays Chopin and Debussy") was all most likely made there. Just wondering. Different strokes...

SE.
Graham
2020-10-22 21:12:09 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Graham
Post by Henk vT
Thanks!
Henk
I'm a fan of Moravec but draw the line at the recordings made in Manhattan.
The piano sound is appalling. As an example. I listened to his Franck PC&F
this afternoon. A superb performance ruined by what sounds like a
honky-tonk, bar-room piano.
This might be "BA" (Baldwin aversion). When you say recordings made in Manhattan, do you mean the Connoisseur material produced by E. Alan Silver (which includes the Franck as well as most of what put Moravec on the map)? These btw are not the only IM recordings made in Manhattan, as the Max Wilcox-produced stuff (for Nonesuch, Schumann/Brahms and Janacek; for Vox, "Plays Chopin and Debussy") was all most likely made there. Just wondering. Different strokes...
SE.
Yes, those are the recordings. Until Frank posted the discography earlier
today, I didn't know that it was a Baldwin. This "innocent ear" just
recognised a lousy piano sound.
Graham
Steve Emerson
2020-10-22 16:00:14 UTC
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Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...

SE.
Frank Berger
2020-10-22 16:33:51 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
The usual caveats:

https://tinyurl.com/y2aka38j
Steve Emerson
2020-10-22 18:51:29 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
https://tinyurl.com/y2aka38j
Much appreciated, Frank. Very useful discography and great use of the Wayback Machine. The variousness of his recordings, and Connoisseur's assembly of them, is even more confusing than I'd realized.

SE.
Frank Berger
2020-10-22 21:11:22 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 11:37:25 AM UTC-7, Alan
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait
(also
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
Self-recommending, compiled from diverse labels,
featuring first official digital reissues of some items,
including the famous Beethoven "Pastoral" from CS, the
Nonesuch Brahms & Schumann, etc.  Scheduled for issue in
for 11 CDs + 1 DVD.
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec
discography? It seems you're correct that they're using
the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the
Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin
Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the
Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material
and the first digital release.  Guess I have about 85% of
this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
https://tinyurl.com/y2aka38j
I accidentally discovered that if you click on the tracks in
the supraphon web site listing above it tells you the date
and place and other recording information.
Frank Berger
2020-10-22 21:51:48 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 11:37:25 AM UTC-7, Alan
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait
(also
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
Self-recommending, compiled from diverse labels,
featuring first official digital reissues of some items,
including the famous Beethoven "Pastoral" from CS, the
Nonesuch Brahms & Schumann, etc.  Scheduled for issue in
for 11 CDs + 1 DVD.
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec
discography? It seems you're correct that they're using
the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the
Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin
Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the
Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch
material and the first digital release.  Guess I have
about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual
dilemma...
SE.
https://tinyurl.com/y2aka38j
I accidentally discovered that if you click on the tracks in
the supraphon web site listing above it tells you the date
and place and other recording information.
It's not going to be helpful if those links point to wrong
information is it? The famous Beethoven PC #4 with
Turnovsky link claims a recording date of June 21, 1965.
All other references to that recording say it was October
1963. Unless there are two with the same orchestra and
conductor.
Invocation
2020-10-22 21:53:14 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 11:37:25 AM UTC-7, Alan
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait
(also
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
Self-recommending, compiled from diverse labels,
featuring first official digital reissues of some items,
including the famous Beethoven "Pastoral" from CS, the
Nonesuch Brahms & Schumann, etc.  Scheduled for issue in
for 11 CDs + 1 DVD.
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec
discography? It seems you're correct that they're using
the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the
Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin
Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the
Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material
and the first digital release.  Guess I have about 85% of
this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
https://tinyurl.com/y2aka38j
I accidentally discovered that if you click on the tracks in
the supraphon web site listing above it tells you the date
and place and other recording information.
Do not use it as the "absolute" reference. I have found several examples that the dates given on their website/webstore are different from what is given in the booklet of the same recording on physical disc. Not sure why there is such a discrepency.

Regarding this specific Moravec set, the detailed contents and date information can be found here:
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Piano-Collection_000000000017977/item_Ivan-Moravec-Portrait-11CD-DVD_11242421
Alan Cooper
2020-10-22 17:21:05 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
Yeah, me too. I recognize that this issue looks rather catch-as-catch can. If only it had been possible to create a (more) complete anthology. I'm justifying the order for that other 15% and because the packaging will save space :-) The discography for which Frank provided the link has the (by now) well-known story about the CS issue of the "Pastoral" Sonata. Just to add to the fun, Supraphon says that the recording took place on Feb 4, 1970 in the Dvořákova síň Rudolfina, Praha, viz., neither in NYC (studio) nor Italy (live).

Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage into account. For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release price w/free postage is likely a better deal.

Alan
Al Eisner
2020-11-09 17:18:38 UTC
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Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage into account. For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release price w/free postage is likely a better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price. (Free shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
--
Al Eisner
Frank Berger
2020-11-09 18:23:10 UTC
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Post by Al Eisner
Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage
into account.  For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release
price w/free postage is likely a better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery
date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and
that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price.  (Free
shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
Got mine today. First they announced a delay then delivered
it sooner. Go figure.
Alan Cooper
2020-11-09 18:43:37 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage
into account.  For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release
price w/free postage is likely a better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery
date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and
that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price.  (Free
shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
Got mine today. First they announced a delay then delivered
it sooner. Go figure.
Good news. First I received a notice of delay until January. Then I got one informing we that my copy was shipped today. That was followed almost immediately by a note indicating that $11.62 would be refunded to my account because of Amazon's "Pre-order Price Guarantee." The tracking # doesn't come up on the USPS site, so I can hardly wait to see what additional "excitement" is in store :-)

AC
dk
2020-11-09 20:22:47 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage
into account.  For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release
price w/free postage is likely a better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery
date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price.  (Free
shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
Got mine today. First they announced a delay then delivered
it sooner. Go figure.
Good news. First I received a notice of delay until
January. Then I got one informing we that my copy was
shipped today. That was followed almost immediately by
a note indicating that $11.62 would be refunded to my
account because of Amazon's "Pre-order Price Guarantee."
The tracking # doesn't come up on the USPS site, so I
can hardly wait to see what additional "excitement" is
in store :-)
You are doing great! Especially since there
isn't any "excitement" in the Moravec set.

dk
Alan Cooper
2020-11-10 15:35:39 UTC
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Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage
into account.  For buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release
price w/free postage is likely a better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery
date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price.  (Free
shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
Got mine today. First they announced a delay then delivered
it sooner. Go figure.
Good news. First I received a notice of delay until
January. Then I got one informing we that my copy was
shipped today. That was followed almost immediately by
a note indicating that $11.62 would be refunded to my
account because of Amazon's "Pre-order Price Guarantee."
The tracking # doesn't come up on the USPS site, so I
can hardly wait to see what additional "excitement" is
in store :-)
You are doing great! Especially since there
isn't any "excitement" in the Moravec set.
dk
Yeah, "excitement" was not his forte, so to speak. But there's other stuff that I like about his playing.

AC
dk
2020-11-10 21:51:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by dk
Post by Alan Cooper
Good news. First I received a notice of delay until
January. Then I got one informing we that my copy was
shipped today. That was followed almost immediately by
a note indicating that $11.62 would be refunded to my
account because of Amazon's "Pre-order Price Guarantee."
The tracking # doesn't come up on the USPS site, so I
can hardly wait to see what additional "excitement" is
in store :-)
You are doing great! Especially since there
isn't any "excitement" in the Moravec set.
Yeah, "excitement" was not his forte, so to speak.
But there's other stuff that I like about his playing.
The only thing I remember about his 1985
recital in San Francisco is that my car
died on the way to Masonic Auditorium,
and we had to climb the hill by foot
from Van Ness!

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-10 23:11:26 UTC
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Post by dk
and we had to climb the hill by foot
from Van Ness!
At what tempo ?...
dk
2020-11-11 00:04:17 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
and we had to climb the hill by foot
from Van Ness!
At what tempo ?...
Faster than Moravec was "playing".

dk
vhorowitz
2020-11-11 03:13:56 UTC
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If the beauty of Moravec’ playing doesn’t contain anything to excite you, Dan, I’m very sorry.....and I’m glad I’m not immune from his attributes....one of the great artists of the keyboard, as far as I’m concerned. Fantastic DVD included with the set.....It alone is worth the asking price.
dk
2020-11-11 03:26:15 UTC
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If the beauty of Moravec’ playing doesn’t contain anything to excite you, Dan, I’m very sorry.....and I’m glad I’m not immune from his attributes....one of the great artists of the keyboard, as far as I’m concerned. Fantastic DVD included with the set.....It alone is worth the asking price.
The only Moravec performances I liked
were the Beethoven 4th and the Mozart
24th conducted with the Prague Chamber
Orchestra conducted by Martin Turnovsky
on an old Supraphon LP.

Otherwise, no energy, no imagination and
no spine. Chopin's 4th Ballade is one of my
litmus tests of pianistic ability. Moravec
plays it as if under anesthesia. Listening
right now to refresh my memory, and it
makes me want to throw up.

dk
vhorowitz
2020-11-11 14:15:24 UTC
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Hmm....seems a fine line between epic and ipecac for you. So many pianists/musicians seem to give you so little pleasure. I think if my love of music and listening led me to as much pain and suffering I would consider another pursuit. I don't think it's a matter of higher tolerance for mediocrity, but I don't see the point of wholesale trashing of such large swaths of the corpus pianistsicus. There are blind spots and then there is eventually blindness. I've "moved on" with many artists I don't connect with, but consider the possibility that it's my own blindspot and stop spending time listening to what might become a source of pain and nausea. I wish you pleasure where you can find it.
Post by dk
Otherwise, no energy, no imagination and
no spine. Chopin's 4th Ballade is one of my
litmus tests of pianistic ability. Moravec
plays it as if under anesthesia. Listening
right now to refresh my memory, and it
makes me want to throw up.
dk
dk
2020-11-11 15:46:01 UTC
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Permalink
Hmm....seems a fine line between epic and ipecac for you. So
many pianists/musicians seem to give you so little pleasure. I
think if my love of music and listening led me to as much pain
and suffering I would consider another pursuit. I don't think it's
a matter of higher tolerance for mediocrity, but I don't see the
point of wholesale trashing of such large swaths of the corpus
pianisticus. There are blind spots and then there is eventually
blindness. I've "moved on" with many artists I don't connect
with, but consider the possibility that it's my own blindspot
and stop spending time listening to what might become a
source of pain and nausea. I wish you pleasure where you
can find it.
De gustibus. Whatever makes one happy makes one happy.
If Moravec does it for you, who am I to spoil your pleasure?

Also, life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism.

dk
C***@operamail.com
2020-11-11 19:31:39 UTC
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There will always be the mentally deficient to whom Moravec's playing will never appeal. ;-)

BTW, I was at that Moravec Masonic Auditorium recital myself, and Moravec's tempos were hardly on the slow side - unless your frame of reference is bound by the borders of folks like HJ Lim (fast, but usually messy - just the way you like it!).
Post by dk
De gustibus. Whatever makes one happy makes one happy.
If Moravec does it for you, who am I to spoil your pleasure?
Also, life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism.
dk
dk
2020-11-11 20:38:18 UTC
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Post by C***@operamail.com
There will always be the mentally deficient to whom Moravec's playing will never appeal. ;-)
BTW, I was at that Moravec Masonic Auditorium recital myself,
and Moravec's tempos were hardly on the slow side - unless
your frame of reference is bound by the borders of folks like
HJ Lim (fast, but usually messy - just the way you like it!).
My frame of reference is bound by what I like. Otherwise,
there is massive evidence on YT showing Moravec's tempi
are statistically slower than average.

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2020-11-11 21:31:49 UTC
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Oh yes! I'm sure you've worked it all out from that "massive evidence" - from a statistical perspective of course! ;-)
Post by dk
My frame of reference is bound by what I like. Otherwise,
there is massive evidence on YT showing Moravec's tempi
are statistically slower than average.
dk
dk
2020-11-12 00:15:51 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Oh yes! I'm sure you've worked it all out from that "massive evidence" - from a statistical perspective of course! ;-)
Post by dk
My frame of reference is bound by what I like. Otherwise,
there is massive evidence on YT showing Moravec's tempi
are statistically slower than average.
You can always do your own research if you
do not think mine is valid. IMBECILE !!!

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2020-11-12 19:59:33 UTC
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Permalink
Pardon me if I doubt you've done any "research" at all (other than pine away for HJ Lim while you kiss her picture on your cell phone). IMBECILE !!!
Post by dk
Post by dk
My frame of reference is bound by what I like. Otherwise,
there is massive evidence on YT showing Moravec's tempi
are statistically slower than average.
You can always do your own research if you
do not think mine is valid. IMBECILE !!!
dk
vhorowitz
2020-11-12 05:40:18 UTC
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Permalink
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism” why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
dk
2020-11-12 05:50:27 UTC
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Permalink
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.

Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.

dk
Bob Harper
2020-11-12 17:25:36 UTC
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Permalink
Post by dk
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
dk
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's nothing more to
say, except that he was, indeed, a great musician.

Bob Harper
MELMOTH
2020-11-12 18:54:12 UTC
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Permalink
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's nothing more to say,
except that he was, indeed, a great musician.
Idem with *ARRAU* !...
dk
2020-11-12 19:07:11 UTC
Reply
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Post by MELMOTH
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's nothing more to say,
except that he was, indeed, a great musician.
Idem with *ARRAU* !...
Did you mean "ditto"? No point in trying to Frenchify
English. It is already Frenchified beyond any reason.

dk
dk
2020-11-12 19:05:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that he was, indeed,
a great musician.
Harper, if you don't 'get' HJ LIm, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that she is, indeed, a
great musician. Far greater than "Moravec".

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2020-11-12 20:02:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
How he clings to his fantasies!
Post by dk
Harper, if you don't 'get' HJ LIm, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that she is, indeed, a
great musician. Far greater than "Moravec".
dk
Bob Harper
2020-11-12 23:14:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that he was, indeed,
a great musician.
Harper, if you don't 'get' HJ LIm, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that she is, indeed, a
great musician. Far greater than "Moravec".
dk
I respect your right to have such an opinion, even if I don't agree with
it. But it IS just an opinion.

Bob Harper
dk
2020-11-12 23:19:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
Dan, if you don't 'get' Moravec, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that he was, indeed,
a great musician.
Harper, if you don't 'get' HJ LIm, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that she is, indeed, a
great musician. Far greater than "Moravec".
I respect your right to have such an opinion, even if I
don't agree with it. But it IS just an opinion.
Thank You!
MELMOTH
2020-11-13 00:50:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Harper, if you don't 'get' HJ LIm, I pity you. There's
nothing more to say, except that she is, indeed, a
great musician. Far greater than "Moravec".
*MMMOOOUUUAAARRRFFF* !!! ©MELMOTH
JohnGavin
2020-11-12 21:00:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
dk
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.

A past participant in this newsgroup described Richter’s Chopin as a huge Russian tank running over a beautiful flower garden. I got his point immediately. Richter, of course had a huge repertoire, but I’ve never believed he played all of it equally well. For my taste Richter lacked humor, lightness and a sense of repose, and yes, I know his Schubert. Each to his own.
dk
2020-11-12 21:38:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by dk
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
A past participant in this newsgroup described Richter’s
Chopin as a huge Russian tank running over a beautiful
flower garden. I got his point immediately. Richter, of
course had a huge repertoire, but I’ve never believed
he played all of it equally well. For my taste Richter
lacked humor, lightness and a sense of repose, and
yes, I know his Schubert. Each to his own.
I am not comparing Moravec's Chopin to Richter's. If
you want to follow that track however, Ivan's Ballades
are even more heavy handed than Richter's. After all,
he was just another Ivan.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-13 00:59:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
Richter, of course had a huge repertoire, but I’ve never believed he played
all of it equally well. For my taste Richter lacked humor, lightness and a
sense of repose, and yes, I know his Schubert. Each to his own.
Richter was DEPRESIVE!...I heard him six times in concert...I NEVER saw
him even smiling !...I often wondered if he was more or less suffering
from Asperger's syndrome !....
But I have almost everything he recorded !...He is like Gould...Not a
pianist...Not an artist...No...A Martian genius from nowhere....
vhorowitz
2020-11-13 07:31:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by vhorowitz
Dan, I’m wondering “ life is too short for mealy mouthed relativism”
why did you come to this thread about an artist who makes you want
to vomit? Simply to “drop by” with a one sentence put down of those
who were interested? In the interest of consumer “eduction”? At least
your vomit message had some details instead of your more customary
one word put down, but I still don’t get it. If you indulged in some of your
own mealy mouthed relativism at least we would understand what you
are hearing. And gosh, if one shitcans artists who are simply not the best
A number 1 version of every work how would you ever know the peaks
and valleys of an artist? If Moravec is uninteresting and objectionable
to you partly because of his (perceived) slowish tempi, wouldn’t
something like Richter (who I know you admire, as do I) doing
Schubert’s G major sonata at half the tempo of most versions
have led you to shitcan him for that interpretive sin??
The difference between Moravec and Richter is
that the latter is expressive and makes music at
any tempo -- no matter how slow -- while Ivan
does not music at any tempo -- no matter how
fast.
Listen to Moravec's Chopin 4th Ballade on YT
and you will not fail to understand what makes
me want to throw up.
dk
Certainly true that Richter nearly always connects with his core of expressivity even when he's trying to be uber-objective. Moravec tends to want to smell the roses and dig around for choice voicings before wrapping it up in some kind of structure. Sometimes it's just what I want to hear, but I've usually been too busy trying to figure out how he gets his fairly unique tonal balancing to judge his expressivity, per se....something to think about. But of course it's a personal thing.....as someone who "plays at the piano" professionally, but not at any such exalted level, I tend to gravitate towards those who make me want to emulate things in their playing rather than "definitive" renditions, but I get in moods for the latter too. So Moravec strikes a "chord" in me for that reason....as does another err....not fav of yours, Arrau, but yes, I know he's fussy and lumpy, etc. And Kempff shows me where light and shade and unexpected meanderings are to be found within a "Germanic" form. And maybe some day Benno Moiseivitsch's tone will come visit me. If my fingers could manage that I could die happy. But hey, the world goes round and we're all in it for the stuff that makes us happy.
George
2020-11-11 04:26:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vhorowitz
If the beauty of Moravec’ playing doesn’t contain anything to excite you, Dan, I’m very sorry.....and I’m glad I’m not immune from his attributes....one of the great artists of the keyboard, as far as I’m concerned. Fantastic DVD included with the set.....It alone is worth the asking price.
Well said, and thanks for sharing about the DVD.

George
Al Eisner
2020-11-13 03:53:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Alan Cooper
Btw, the $55 price that I quoted failed to take postage into account. For
buyers in the US, Amazon's pre-release price w/free postage is likely a
better deal
Pre-ordered at Amazon for about $63 on Oct. 24, delivery date than delayed,
but today I got a message that delivery will be Nov. 19, and that there
would be a $10 refund on the pre-order price. (Free shipping, but
they do add on CA sales tax.)
And actually arrived November 11.
--
Al Eisner
George
2020-10-24 01:28:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
I have all but the unreleased stuff. Has anyone worked out which performances here are new to CD? Supraphon mentions that some of it is new to CD, but they don't list which performances.

George
Invocation
2020-10-24 01:54:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
https://www.supraphon.com/album/586246-ivan-moravec-portrait (also https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait).
AC
Thanks, Alan! Have you found a reliable Moravec discography? It seems you're correct that they're using the Nonesuch Schumann Kinderszenen here, and not the Supraphon from August 1987. (By contrast the Chopin Preludes appear to be the Supraphon recordings, not the Connoisseur.) The Janacek should also be Nonesuch material and the first digital release. Guess I have about 85% of this in some form or other, so the usual dilemma...
SE.
I have all but the unreleased stuff. Has anyone worked out which performances here are new to CD? Supraphon mentions that some of it is new to CD, but they don't list which performances.
George
Check the HMV Japan link I posted above. Those works marked with asterisk are first time CD release. I also think the DVD is first time issue.
George
2020-10-24 02:41:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
OK, I'm pretty sure that I have all the Moravec CDs that have been released. I just checked the Supraphon site and came up with about 88 minutes of previously unreleased, on CD, performances:

Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970

George
Invocation
2020-10-24 03:26:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
According to Supraphon, Brahms' op. 76-2 and 79-2 are also first time CD release. Those are also recorded in 1984, along with op. 117 and the Schumann.
George
2020-10-24 15:17:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Invocation
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
According to Supraphon, Brahms' op. 76-2 and 79-2 are also first time CD release. Those are also recorded in 1984, along with op. 117 and the Schumann.
Thanks, I had those confused with the ones recorded live in Brussels in 1983, released on the Supraphon CD, Live In Brussels.

George
Steve Emerson
2020-10-24 19:35:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.

SE.
Alan Cooper
2020-10-24 19:47:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Right, and the Nonesuch items are a big incentive for me. One oddity noted in passing is that they seem to be available only in the CD issue. If you go to https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait and toggle from the CD/DVD listing to the downloadable version, you'll see the Nonesuch items vanish. Thus the CD 7 download seems to include only the Appassionata, which runs for all of about 21:30! Could be an error in the listing, I suppose, but I kinda doubt it. I wanted the CD set anyway.

AC
Invocation
2020-10-24 19:56:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Right, and the Nonesuch items are a big incentive for me. One oddity noted in passing is that they seem to be available only in the CD issue. If you go to https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/586245-ivan-moravec-portrait and toggle from the CD/DVD listing to the downloadable version, you'll see the Nonesuch items vanish. Thus the CD 7 download seems to include only the Appassionata, which runs for all of about 21:30! Could be an error in the listing, I suppose, but I kinda doubt it. I wanted the CD set anyway.
AC
The whole Nonesuch LP is removed from the digital release of the set on all digital streaming platforms. My guess is that Nonesuch only licensed those recordings to Supraphon for physical album release. But I might be wrong.
George
2020-10-24 20:50:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Thanks. The Janacek you mention is duplicated (though live) on the live in Prague CD, so I missed it. Not sure why I missed Arabesque.

George
George
2020-10-24 20:53:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Thanks. The Janacek you mention is duplicated (though live) on the live in Prague CD, so I missed it. I listed the Arabesque in my OP.

George
George
2020-10-24 20:59:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Thanks. The Janacek you mention is duplicated (though live) on the live in Prague CD, so I missed it. I listed the Arabesque in my OP.

That brings the total of unreleased (on CD) performances to 128 minutes. Looks like I'll getting this set after all.

George

George
Al Eisner
2020-10-25 02:29:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Thanks. The Janacek you mention is duplicated (though live) on the live in Prague CD, so I missed it. I listed the Arabesque in my OP.
That brings the total of unreleased (on CD) performances to 128 minutes. Looks like I'll getting this set after all.
George
George
With people here self-debating whether to buy the set despite having
over 80% of it already, I don't suppose I should worry about my
having 10%. :)

I also have his Chopin Nocturnes, which don't appear to be in this
set. Didn't someone say that the set represented multiple labels?
--
Al Eisner
vhorowitz
2020-10-25 02:41:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
George
2020-10-25 02:51:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
I much prefer the warmer, darker sound of the Nonesuch mastering.

George
vhorowitz
2020-10-25 04:21:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Hmm.....different audio setups, different ears, but the dullness of the Nonesuch is made worse on my setup by the overbearing bass that picks up Moravec’s pedaling noises enough to be really distracting to me. I WOULD like to hear the original LPs and see which was those were tilted.
Al Eisner
2020-10-25 05:30:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
Invocation
2020-10-25 06:21:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
No, the Nocturnes are not included in the new set. The new set is a (largely complete) selection of his Supraphon recordings. Not sure why Supraphon decided not to include all the previously released materials.
George
2020-10-25 14:37:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Invocation
Post by Al Eisner
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
No, the Nocturnes are not included in the new set. The new set is a (largely complete) selection of his Supraphon recordings. Not sure why Supraphon decided not to include all the previously released materials.
It looks like, except for the Scherzi, they avoided all of the more recent Supraphon releases.

https://www.supraphon.com/artists/152-ivan-moravec-piano

George
Steve Emerson
2020-10-25 19:24:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
Post by Invocation
Post by Al Eisner
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
No, the Nocturnes are not included in the new set. The new set is a (largely complete) selection of his Supraphon recordings. Not sure why Supraphon decided not to include all the previously released materials.
It looks like, except for the Scherzi, they avoided all of the more recent Supraphon releases.
https://www.supraphon.com/artists/152-ivan-moravec-piano
The term "Supraphon releases," or as per Mr. Invocation "Supraphon recordings," may be misleading here. The Scherzi are as good an example as any. Supraphon's release is a reissue of the Dorian recording, made in the U.S., (p) 1991. If you look at Supraphon's individual release called "Scherzi, Etudes, Mazurkas," you'll find that fact noted. The big box at hand of course has Connoisseur material (much of it previously reissued by Supraphon as well as VAI), plus recordings by Nonesuch, Vox, Dorian and maybe others, in addition to thngs that did originate with Supraphon.

Re: the Nocturnes, I never have heard the Supraphon transfer but am curious. Besides it and the Nonesuch (which is AAD), there's also an Erato Ultima, digital, which sounds much less like the LPs than does the Nonesuch.

The back cover of the Supraphon Nocturnes, seen online, shows it as AAD and "released under license from Nonesuch." Odd. To complicate matters, Supraphonline currently shows the Nonesuch cover, and not their own.

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/150459-chopin-nocturnes-complete?

SE.
George
2020-10-25 19:54:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Post by Invocation
Post by Al Eisner
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
No, the Nocturnes are not included in the new set. The new set is a (largely complete) selection of his Supraphon recordings. Not sure why Supraphon decided not to include all the previously released materials.
It looks like, except for the Scherzi, they avoided all of the more recent Supraphon releases.
https://www.supraphon.com/artists/152-ivan-moravec-piano
The term "Supraphon releases," or as per Mr. Invocation "Supraphon recordings," may be misleading here. The Scherzi are as good an example as any. Supraphon's release is a reissue of the Dorian recording, made in the U.S., (p) 1991. If you look at Supraphon's individual release called "Scherzi, Etudes, Mazurkas," you'll find that fact noted. The big box at hand of course has Connoisseur material (much of it previously reissued by Supraphon as well as VAI), plus recordings by Nonesuch, Vox, Dorian and maybe others, in addition to thngs that did originate with Supraphon.
Re: the Nocturnes, I never have heard the Supraphon transfer but am curious. Besides it and the Nonesuch (which is AAD), there's also an Erato Ultima, digital, which sounds much less like the LPs than does the Nonesuch.
The back cover of the Supraphon Nocturnes, seen online, shows it as AAD and "released under license from Nonesuch." Odd. To complicate matters, Supraphonline currently shows the Nonesuch cover, and not their own.
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/150459-chopin-nocturnes-complete?
SE.
I listened to a few samples (via cheap earbuds) from the link you gave. It sure sounds like it is the Nonesuch mastering, so that's why they used the Nonesuch cover.

George
George
2020-10-25 20:08:07 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Post by Invocation
Post by Al Eisner
Post by vhorowitz
The Chopin Nocturnes were released on CD by Nonesuch (from Connoisseur Society LPs originally) and now by Supraphon. To my ears the Supraphon is better sounding.....far less muffled than the Nonesuch issue, but not harsh on top.
So they actually are on this new set? They are not in the listing
at Presto. (The CD set I have is Nonesuch.)
--
Al Eisner
No, the Nocturnes are not included in the new set. The new set is a (largely complete) selection of his Supraphon recordings. Not sure why Supraphon decided not to include all the previously released materials.
It looks like, except for the Scherzi, they avoided all of the more recent Supraphon releases.
https://www.supraphon.com/artists/152-ivan-moravec-piano
The term "Supraphon releases," or as per Mr. Invocation "Supraphon recordings," may be misleading here. The Scherzi are as good an example as any. Supraphon's release is a reissue of the Dorian recording, made in the U.S., (p) 1991. If you look at Supraphon's individual release called "Scherzi, Etudes, Mazurkas," you'll find that fact noted. The big box at hand of course has Connoisseur material (much of it previously reissued by Supraphon as well as VAI), plus recordings by Nonesuch, Vox, Dorian and maybe others, in addition to thngs that did originate with Supraphon.
Re: the Nocturnes, I never have heard the Supraphon transfer but am curious. Besides it and the Nonesuch (which is AAD), there's also an Erato Ultima, digital, which sounds much less like the LPs than does the Nonesuch.
The back cover of the Supraphon Nocturnes, seen online, shows it as AAD and "released under license from Nonesuch." Odd. To complicate matters, Supraphonline currently shows the Nonesuch cover, and not their own.
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/150459-chopin-nocturnes-complete?
SE.
That's why I said Supraphon releases (and not recordings), as I now believe the reason Supraphon refrained from including material from their 10 or so most recent (except the Scherzi) releases is because if people buy this set, love what they hear (and why wouldn't they) then they will buy more. And Supraphon has 10 or so recent releases that they could sell to them.

This set is already labelled a "Best Seller" for amazon, so it seems Supraphon made the wise move here. If they had included everything, the box would likely cost twice as much, wouldn't sell as well and they wouldn't have the chance to sell off stock that has already been produced.

George
George
2020-10-25 02:55:59 UTC
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Post by Al Eisner
Post by George
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by George
Schumann - Scenes from childhood and Arabesque, 1984
Brahms - Op. 117, 1-3 - 1984
Ravel - Habanera - 1963
Janacek - On an overgrown path (3 selections) - 1983
Martinu - Etudes and Polkas (3 selections) - 2001
Beethoven - Op. 28 Pastoral sonata - 1970
George
All of the Janacek is released here for the first time, AFAIK. The full contents of Nonesuch LP 79041 (Hamburg Steinway): "In the Mists" (16:14) and the Sonata (14:42) as well as the "Overgrown Path" selections. As Invocation notes, the whole of the Nonesuch Brahms and Schumann LP is also present (which includes the Schumann Arabesque, not noted in your post). I haven't checked anything else, so no guarantees on the rest.
SE.
Thanks. The Janacek you mention is duplicated (though live) on the live in Prague CD, so I missed it. I listed the Arabesque in my OP.
That brings the total of unreleased (on CD) performances to 128 minutes. Looks like I'll getting this set after all.
George
George
With people here self-debating whether to buy the set despite having
over 80% of it already, I don't suppose I should worry about my
having 10%. :)
I also have his Chopin Nocturnes, which don't appear to be in this
set. Didn't someone say that the set represented multiple labels?
--
Al Eisner
Yeah, if you only have 10%, you have a very easy decision.

I do wonder about the criteria they used in choosing material for this set.

George
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