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Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances: a guide to the best recordings
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Gerard
2019-04-30 10:51:31 UTC
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A nice overwiew at:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings

But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
j***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 13:55:13 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
I agree with with the Ashkenazy/RCO recording - absolutely sumptuous performance that made me fall in love with the piece. I also have Svetlanov/Russian State Symphony Orchestra, which doesn't seem to be reviewed here. I will have to revisit that one, since it has been years since I last listened.
Gerard
2019-04-30 15:30:30 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
I agree with with the Ashkenazy/RCO recording - absolutely sumptuous performance that made me fall in love with the piece. I also have Svetlanov/Russian State Symphony Orchestra, which doesn't seem to be reviewed here. I will have to revisit that one, since it has been years since I last listened.
The article mentions 2 recordings by Svetlanov: 1973 (non-live) and 1986 (live).
I have that 1986 recording on Regis. I also have a 1995 recording (on Warner, not mentioned in the article) and that one is indeed with the orchestra you wrote about: Orchestre Symphonique d'État de la Fédération de Russie. His recording on Exton must be the same one (same date, State Symphony Orchestra of Russian Federation).

So that's already 3 famous recordings missing ;-(
The header says "Rob Cowan assesses the available recordings". But ... Oue and Petrenko are easily available ....
Bozo
2019-04-30 14:24:39 UTC
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Thanks for that article. Perhaps Rachmaninoff's "best" work.
s***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 19:22:22 UTC
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I do like de Waart/LPO very much, better than his Rotterdam Rach, even though I like them better than others. Järvi/Philharmonia IMHO is one of Neeme’s best recordings. And even though the sound is very dry (don’t think ii is the audiophile recording that gets touted), Johanos/Dallas has been a fave.

Stan Punzel
Gerard
2019-04-30 20:07:26 UTC
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I do like de Waart/LPO very much, better than his Rotterdam Rach, even though I like them better than others. Järvi/Philharmonia IMHO is one of Neeme’s best recordings. And even though the sound is very dry (don’t think ii is the audiophile recording that gets touted), Johanos/Dallas has been a fave.
Stan Punzel
Johanos has not been a fave here. The recordings by De Waart you wrote about are unknown to me, but I really like his recording on Exton with the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra Holland.
I should relisten to Neeme Järvi's recording.
Re the article: Paavo Järvi's recording is a "winner" there - a strange choice i.m.o.
m***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 20:49:38 UTC
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Post by Gerard
Post by s***@gmail.com
I do like de Waart/LPO very much, better than his Rotterdam Rach, even though I like them better than others. Järvi/Philharmonia IMHO is one of Neeme’s best recordings. And even though the sound is very dry (don’t think ii is the audiophile recording that gets touted), Johanos/Dallas has been a fave.
Stan Punzel
Johanos has not been a fave here. The recordings by De Waart you wrote about are unknown to me, but I really like his recording on Exton with the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra Holland.
I should relisten to Neeme Järvi's recording.
Re the article: Paavo Järvi's recording is a "winner" there - a strange choice i.m.o.
The Kondrashin may be a wretched recording, but the performance works on a level I've rarely heard. I really liked Petrenko's effort when he conducted this piece with the CSO a few years ago, but he made it sound more modern, more abstract. Kondrashin makes it speak in phrases that make even more sense.

Svetlaov brings a unique brand of rhetoric to Rachmaninov, too, but i can't seem to remember his recordings.

I don't dig Johanos. And I don't get why a recording with so much low-frequency rumble gets called audiophile.
Raymond Hall
2019-05-02 04:48:43 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
I agree also about Ashkenazy's Dances, as also with the symphonies. However, I do feel that the Dances don't need quite as rich and volatile a treatment, (which helps the symphonies) but which tends to rob the Dances of its particular and uniquely dry atmosphere. Nevertheless, the CD is a real keeper.

These Dances, for me, reflect Rachmaninov's Russian heritage far more than symphonies 1 and 2. Symphony No.3 is clearly a link towards the Dances. The Dances were written on Long Island, and it is clear that Rachmaninov was able to look more intently at his Russian background from this vantage point. They were written for Ormandy and his Philadelphia orchestra. Ormandy, from reading, was slightly underwhelmed with the music at first.

Ray Hall, Taree
Bozo
2019-05-02 13:43:17 UTC
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. However, I do feel that the Dances don't need quite as rich and volatile a treatment, (which helps the >symphonies) but which tends to rob the Dances of its particular and uniquely dry atmosphere.
Agreed.
c***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 07:32:10 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
i find the pioneering record (after Mitropoulos) of Golavanov very interesting for its apparent modernity of textures. Do others manage as much of that? Pity the sound is not great.
Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
Bozo
2019-05-02 13:46:49 UTC
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Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
And with your Country's vaunted pinot noir, sauvignon blanc, Steinlager close at hand ; if needed ?
Kerrison
2019-05-02 15:54:33 UTC
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It's only my opinion, of course, but I don't think the old 'Everest' Goossens / LSO recording quite deserved the "stop-gap" dismissal it received from certain venerable 'Gramophone' critics ...


c***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 16:24:40 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
It's only my opinion, of course, but I don't think the old 'Everest' Goossens / LSO recording quite deserved the "stop-gap" dismissal it received from certain venerable 'Gramophone' critics ...
http://youtu.be/lencIX4oQVw
In fact, the Goossens recording was marketed in its day as a sonic spectacular. I owned a copy of the 2-LP Everest set that paired it with "Feste Romane" and included a sleeve note about the recording. I enjoyed the performance back in the day and agree that it was better than a mere stop-gap, but now it seems rather staid to me in comparison with the likes of Ashkenazy and Jansons. I can understand that some might find them overheated, but I don't. I'm a Rachmaninoff fan in general, but tend to prefer his music on the dry side, in works such as the Symphonic Dances, Symphony #3, Corelli Variations, some Etudes-tableaux, etc.

AC
Ed Presson
2019-05-02 19:50:30 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
It's only my opinion, of course, but I don't think the old 'Everest'
Goossens / LSO recording quite deserved the "stop-gap" dismissal it
received from certain venerable 'Gramophone' critics ...
http://youtu.be/lencIX4oQVw
In fact, the Goossens recording was marketed in its day as a sonic
spectacular. I owned a copy of the 2-LP Everest set that paired it with
"Feste Romane" and included a sleeve note about the recording. I >enjoyed
the performance back in the day and agree that it was better than a mere
stop-gap, but now it seems rather staid to me in comparison with the likes
of Ashkenazy and Jansons. I can understand that >some might find them
overheated, but I don't. I'm a Rachmaninoff fan in general, but tend to
prefer his music on the dry side, in works such as the Symphonic Dances,
Symphony #3, Corelli Variations, some >Etudes-tableaux, etc.
AC
I generally agree with Mr. Cooper's preferences in Rachmaninoff. I still
find the Goossens' performance has a tension and dramatic arc that few
others attain (or even attempt). I concur the Ashkenazy (first Decca
recording) is even better. Don't care for Jansons' EMI recording.

Ed Presson
billinrio
2019-05-04 10:22:10 UTC
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I have the same Everest 2LP set, and even discounting the "imprinting" (it was my first exposure to the work) I still find it compelling. I also very much like the Johanos recording (Donald Johanos - Dallas Symphony Orchestra ‎– Symphonic Dances Op. 45 / Vocalise Op. 34, No. 14
Label:Analogue Productions ‎– CAPC 34145 SA), especially this improvement on the original Vox LP).
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Post by Kerrison
It's only my opinion, of course, but I don't think the old 'Everest' Goossens / LSO recording quite deserved the "stop-gap" dismissal it received from certain venerable 'Gramophone' critics ...
http://youtu.be/lencIX4oQVw
In fact, the Goossens recording was marketed in its day as a sonic spectacular. I owned a copy of the 2-LP Everest set that paired it with "Feste Romane" and included a sleeve note about the recording. I enjoyed the performance back in the day and agree that it was better than a mere stop-gap, but now it seems rather staid to me in comparison with the likes of Ashkenazy and Jansons. I can understand that some might find them overheated, but I don't. I'm a Rachmaninoff fan in general, but tend to prefer his music on the dry side, in works such as the Symphonic Dances, Symphony #3, Corelli Variations, some Etudes-tableaux, etc.
AC
Bob Harper
2019-05-02 15:51:17 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
i find the pioneering record (after Mitropoulos) of Golavanov very interesting for its apparent modernity of textures. Do others manage as much of that? Pity the sound is not great.
Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
I am truly envious; we were there on the South Island a year ago. The
posters don't lie--it really IS that beautiful. The people, the pinot,
and the lamb )and the food in general) all wonderful.

Bob Harper
c***@gmail.com
2019-05-04 04:41:23 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
i find the pioneering record (after Mitropoulos) of Golavanov very interesting for its apparent modernity of textures. Do others manage as much of that? Pity the sound is not great.
Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
I am truly envious; we were there on the South Island a year ago. The
posters don't lie--it really IS that beautiful. The people, the pinot,
and the lamb )and the food in general) all wonderful.
Bob Harper
So happy its charm still works in the Deep South. There is a bit of a fear hereabouts that it has been oversold, as in too much emphasis placed on catering to the adrenalin junkie market! Especially for Queenstown, which used to be a southern hemisphere pearl, but sadly no longer!!
graham
2019-05-04 12:40:02 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
i find the pioneering record (after Mitropoulos) of Golavanov very interesting for its apparent modernity of textures. Do others manage as much of that? Pity the sound is not great.
Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
I am truly envious; we were there on the South Island a year ago. The
posters don't lie--it really IS that beautiful. The people, the pinot,
and the lamb )and the food in general) all wonderful.
Bob Harper
So happy its charm still works in the Deep South. There is a bit of a fear hereabouts that it has been oversold, as in too much emphasis placed on catering to the adrenalin junkie market! Especially for Queenstown, which used to be a southern hemisphere pearl, but sadly no longer!!
Queenstown reminded me of Nelson (in the Canadian Rockies) but on
steroids:-).
The devastation in Christchurch was heartbreaking.
Bob Harper
2019-05-04 15:33:33 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
i find the pioneering record (after Mitropoulos) of Golavanov very interesting for its apparent modernity of textures. Do others manage as much of that? Pity the sound is not great.
Craig in autumn by a lake in New Zealand
I am truly envious; we were there on the South Island a year ago. The
posters don't lie--it really IS that beautiful. The people, the pinot,
and the lamb )and the food in general) all wonderful.
Bob Harper
So happy its charm still works in the Deep South. There is a bit of a fear hereabouts that it has been oversold, as in too much emphasis placed on catering to the adrenalin junkie market! Especially for Queenstown, which used to be a southern hemisphere pearl, but sadly no longer!!
Yes. Good friends of ours went to Queenstown 30+ years ago, and had told
us many times about ow wonderful it was. Alas, we got there at least 20
years too late. It was 'discovered', and has been turned into a
*destination* in the bad sense of that word. Too bad! But everything
else was wonderful.

Bob Harper
l***@gmail.com
2019-05-04 19:56:36 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
Has anyone else heard the 1940 Marston label recording by Rachmaninov himself?

Mort Linder
Bozo
2019-05-04 23:17:29 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Has anyone else heard the 1940 Marston label recording by Rachmaninov himself?
Only this 3 minutes :

Kerrison
2019-05-05 13:34:51 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by l***@gmail.com
Has anyone else heard the 1940 Marston label recording by Rachmaninov himself?
Only this 3 minutes : http://youtu.be/L3Xp2Djqh3s
I just played the first 3 minutes of the Symphonic Dance No. 3 conducted by Ormandy and then switched straight away to the Goossens beginning and there's no way that the latter can be dismissed as a mere "stop gap" ...

Ormandy ...



Goossens ...


dk
2020-09-29 08:18:19 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
Post by Bozo
Post by l***@gmail.com
Has anyone else heard the 1940 Marston label recording by Rachmaninov himself?
Only this 3 minutes : http://youtu.be/L3Xp2Djqh3s
I just played the first 3 minutes of the Symphonic Dance No. 3 conducted by Ormandy and then switched straight away to the Goossens beginning and there's no way that the latter can be dismissed as a mere "stop gap" ...
Ormandy ...
http://youtu.be/YPFdoivtvd0
Goossens ...
http://youtu.be/c5jtV0IP5bI
There are plenty of modern performances that
are way better than those mentioned so far.





dk
dk
2020-09-29 08:21:43 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Kerrison
Post by Bozo
Post by l***@gmail.com
Has anyone else heard the 1940 Marston label recording by Rachmaninov himself?
Only this 3 minutes : http://youtu.be/L3Xp2Djqh3s
I just played the first 3 minutes of the Symphonic Dance No. 3 conducted by Ormandy and then switched straight away to the Goossens beginning and there's no way that the latter can be dismissed as a mere "stop gap" ...
Ormandy ...
http://youtu.be/YPFdoivtvd0
Goossens ...
http://youtu.be/c5jtV0IP5bI
There are plenty of modern performances that
are way better than those mentioned so far.
http://youtu.be/otJmf3pyb1E
http://youtu.be/866Au5pOmks
http://youtu.be/8hZaGKRUIQE
Kondrashin too:



dk
raymond....@gmail.com
2020-09-29 11:42:29 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Kerrison
I just played the first 3 minutes of the Symphonic Dance No. 3 conducted by Ormandy and then switched straight away to the Goossens beginning and there's no way that the latter can be dismissed as a mere "stop gap" ...
Ormandy ...
http://youtu.be/YPFdoivtvd0
Goossens ...
http://youtu.be/c5jtV0IP5bI
There are plenty of modern performances that
are way better than those mentioned so far.
http://youtu.be/otJmf3pyb1E
http://youtu.be/866Au5pOmks
http://youtu.be/8hZaGKRUIQE
dk
Not sure what has been mentioned without going back thru the thread, but of the three readings here, I'd discard Jansons (weird tempo speed up not too far in), and Petrenko (a bit too stodgy), in favour of Ashkenazy/RCO's early 1980 reading. Gardner's reading is up there, as this music captures something very rare, nostalgia, melancholy. deep yearning for something quite undefinable, but maybe the loss of a world we can never go back to, which Gardner gets closest to. I'd like to hear Oue's version with Minnesota, or Vasily Petrenko with RLPO. Previn/LSO is getting quite ancient now, but it is not bad.

Ray Hall, Taree

g***@gmail.com
2020-09-29 07:40:02 UTC
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Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances-a-guide-to-the-best-recordings
But no mention of Petrenko and Oue.
https://www.classical-music.com/features/recordings/the-best-and-worst-recordings-of-rachmaninovs-symphonic-dances/
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