Discussion:
I need to spend a hundred bucks
(too old to reply)
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 04:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's. So
anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying, and I would
appreciate any that you might have.

Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics

Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca

Liszt: Les Preludes, Piano Concerto no 1, etc/Karajan, et al
DG Panorama

Bernstein Century - Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, etc; Grofe
Sony Classics

Bernstein Century - Copland: Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, etc
Sony Classics

Bernstein Century - Debussy: La Mer, Jeux, Nocturnes, etc
Sony Classics

Bernstein Century - Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade, etc
Sony Classics

The total comes to about $122. I already own Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker
and Piano Concertos, so I thought his Swan Lake would be a nice addition.
I already own two albums which include Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue
(Fiedler) and Rimsky-Korsakov's Scherherazade (Karajan), but listening to
this Bernstein previews comepelled me to buy them. However, I am still a
tad reluctant to buy duplicates of works with my collection still being
rather small (I'll post what I do own at the end of this message). I've
heard that Bernstein conducting Copland is one of the best of Copland's
works. I've been meaning to get a copy of Debussy's La Mer, so I thought
I'd just stick with Bernstein! (I made a post about him on r.m.c. if any
of you are interested, or you can e-mail me, and I can forward you the
message). I'm not too sure about the Liszt CD though, I'm thinking about
replacing it with something else (please feel free to recommend something,
but be sure to look at the works I own first at the end!).

So anyways, I was wondering what you guys think of these recordings. I'm
pretty flexible with them, so feel free to offer anything (I'm 95% sure
I'm sticking with the Gieseking Debussy set though - I previewed it and
compared it with many others, and I'm just captivated by him).

Here is the list of what I own:

Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky: Firebird Suite/Scherzos, Le Sacre du
Printemps/Petrushka, Symphony of Psalms/Symphony in C/Symphony in Three
Movements
CBS Records

Beethoven Symphonies 7,8,9; Kubelik
DG

String Serenades: Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Suk
Virgin Classics

Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker; Gergiev (Beautiful!)
Philips

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concertos/Violin Concerto; Rozhdestvensky/Dutoit
Decca

Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade (Karajan), Tsar Saltan Suite (Ashkenazy),
Capriccio Espagnol (Maazel), Rsussian Easter Festival Overture
(Markevitch), Symphony No. 2 (Jarvi), Golden Cockerel: Suite (Markevitch)
DG Panorama

Dvorak: Sypmhonies 7,8,9, Scherzo Capriccioso; Dohnanyi (I love Dvorak's
9th)
Decca

Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris, Piano Concerto in F (some
of my absolute favorites; I adore Gershwin); Fiedler/Wild
RCA

Here is a list of stuff I have bought over the last week and is still
shipping:

Vivaldi: Four Seasons Concertos, other Concertos; Pinnock
DG Panorama

Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 4 - 6; Kubelik
DG

Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 5&6, Romeo & Juliet; Bernstein
DG Panorama

Chopin: 24 Preludes, Piano Concerto 1, Piano Sonata 2, Scherzo 2, Piano
Concerto 2(Ashkenazy)
DG Panorama

Beethoven: Piano Sonatas 8, 14, 15, 17, 21, 23, 26; Ashekenazy
Decca

Dvorak: Slavonic Dances, Symphonic Poems, Overtures; Kubelik
DG

Chopin: Waltzes 1-4; Dinu Lipatti
EMI

Whew, that took longer than I expected. If I'm missing anything
essential, feel free to recommend! I'm still new to classical, so please
keep that in mind. Thanks.

Regards,
Derek
80k
2004-07-31 05:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
The total comes to about $122. I already own Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker
and Piano Concertos, so I thought his Swan Lake would be a nice addition.
I already own two albums which include Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue
(Fiedler) and Rimsky-Korsakov's Scherherazade (Karajan), but listening to
this Bernstein previews comepelled me to buy them. However, I am still a
hey nothing wrong with buying multiple performances, no matter how small
your collection is. That is one of the great joys about classical music.
You should consider Beecham's Scherherazade as well.

Obviously people can (and probably will) recommend other composers until you
are begging for mercy. Personally, i don't see anything wrong with knowing
"few" composers well and branching off slowly.

Although, I think it would be worthwhile for you to consider buying some of
the real early compositions from Guillaume de Machaut and Monterverdi, and
of course, Bach.
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 07:37:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by 80k
Although, I think it would be worthwhile for you to consider buying some of
the real early compositions from Guillaume de Machaut and Monterverdi, and
of course, Bach.
I've never actually heard of Machaut or Monterverdi, but I certainly do
know Bach. I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
spree. I'm not really a huge fan of baroque music yet; however, I do like
Vivaldi's four seasons and Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.
jeffc
2004-07-31 15:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
I've never actually heard of Machaut or Monterverdi, but I certainly do
know Bach. I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
spree. I'm not really a huge fan of baroque music yet; however, I do like
Vivaldi's four seasons and Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.
Unless you find out you love that music, you probably don't have to go too
much further down that road.
Richard S. Sandmeyer
2004-07-31 16:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffc
Post by Derek Hollman
I've never actually heard of Machaut or Monterverdi, but I certainly do
know Bach. I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
spree. I'm not really a huge fan of baroque music yet; however, I do like
Vivaldi's four seasons and Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.
Unless you find out you love that music, you probably don't have to go too
much further down that road.
For the Brandenburgs, a good inexpensive set by Musica Antiqua Koln
(Goebel) can be had on a DG Panorama Bach twofer (some people object to
the very fast tempos in some movements but I find them quite
refreshing). Anther good set is the one conducted by Pinnock (available
in a three CD DG set with the 4 orchestral suites). If you prefer
modern instruments, a good option is the Double Decca twofer by the
English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Britten.

For the Vivaldi Four Seasons, Pinnock on DG Arkiv is a good option. I
also enjoy the performance on Teldec by Il Giardino Armonico.

If you decide to explore more Baroque music, Handel's Water Music, Royal
Fireworks Music, and concerti grossi are worth investigating. Corelli's
concerti grossi are also a worthy addition to a Baroque collection.
Then there are more J.S. Bach concerti than just the Brandenburgs, and
there are hundreds of Vivaldi concerti beyond the Four Seasons. Then
there's Telemann, Rameau, .... And I've only touched orchestral Baroque
music at that.

Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot mil
Michael
2004-07-31 17:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
If you decide to explore more Baroque music, Handel's Water Music, Royal
Fireworks Music, and concerti grossi are worth investigating. Corelli's
concerti grossi are also a worthy addition to a Baroque collection.
Then there are more J.S. Bach concerti than just the Brandenburgs, and
there are hundreds of Vivaldi concerti beyond the Four Seasons. Then
there's Telemann, Rameau, .... And I've only touched orchestral Baroque
music at that.
I absolutely love the organ Toccatas and Fugues by Bach (bwv 565 and
friends). They're best on subwoofers, but you can appreciate them on
headphones too. Solo organ seems to be an acquired taste though, as
some people dislike it. Other interesting works are the Bach
transcriptions of Vivaldi concerti, although I prefer "real" Bach
pieces. The Art of Fugue is often recommended by books but I find it a
bit less accessible than Musical Offering.

On the other end of the spectrum, some cool works from the twentieth
century are Barber's Essays (No. 2 in particular IIRC) and Prokofiev's
Alexander Nevsky (i have the Cantata). Both are easy listens.

I don't have a huge collection, but these will probably remain favorites
for quite some time.

michael
David7Gable
2004-08-01 03:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Solo organ seems to be an acquired taste though, as
some people dislike it.
All taste is acquired, but a taste for Bach's organ music is well worth
acquiring.

-david gable
Ssg217
2004-08-01 07:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Michael
Solo organ seems to be an acquired taste though, as
some people dislike it.
All taste is acquired, but a taste for Bach's organ music is well worth
acquiring.
-david gable
Not that I'd disagree with that, but which precisely is Bach's music in
relation with which a taste is not worth acquiring?

regards,
SG
Rodger Whitlock
2004-08-01 17:06:52 UTC
Permalink
...which precisely is Bach's music in
relation with which a taste is not worth acquiring?
A great many of the innumerable chorale preludes.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Rodger Whitlock
2004-07-31 17:53:09 UTC
Permalink
I've never actually heard of Machaut or Monterverdi...
Look around for a book that gives some kind of broad-brush
introduction to classical music. It will at least make some of
the names familiar.
...but I certainly do
know Bach. I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
spree.
I'm not so sure that's a good idea. The Brandenburgs are a little
whiffy and recordings of them can easily fall into the
sewing-machine school. Let me suggest the orchestral suites as a
better starting point for Bach's orchestral music.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
David7Gable
2004-08-01 03:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
Post by Derek Hollman
spree.
I'm not so sure that's a good idea. The Brandenburgs are a little
whiffy and recordings of them can easily fall into the
sewing-machine school. Let me suggest the orchestral suites as a
better starting point for Bach's orchestral music.
Roger, I have no idea what "whiffy" means, but the Branbenburgs strike me as
much more varied than the Suites, as much as I like them. And I don't see why
one set of Baroque pieces is any more or less apt to be subjected to the sewing
machine approach. (I'm never quite sure what to make of the "sewing machine
approach" objection, either, since the sewing machine effect, a continuous
stream of pulses that isn't interrupted by caesuras following cadences, is
built into virtually all music from that half century.)

-david gable
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 01:07:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Post by 80k
Although, I think it would be worthwhile for you to consider buying some of
the real early compositions from Guillaume de Machaut and Monterverdi, and
of course, Bach.
I've never actually heard of Machaut or Monterverdi, but I certainly do
know Bach. I plan to purchase his Brandenburg Concertos in my next buying
spree. I'm not really a huge fan of baroque music yet; however, I do like
Vivaldi's four seasons and Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock

(pace Simon)

Don
David7Gable
2004-08-01 03:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
is horrible...horrible...horrible...horrible.

-david gable
Ssg217
2004-08-01 07:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
Who's there?... Who's there?... Who's there?... Arrrgh, go to hell.
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 21:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ssg217
Post by Sacqueboutier
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
Who's there?... Who's there?... Who's there?... Arrrgh, go to hell.
So , what are you trying to say here?

Don
Ssg217
2004-08-01 22:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacqueboutier
So , what are you trying to say here?
Don
To be silly? Don't take offense, please.

regards,
SG
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 21:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Sacqueboutier
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
is horrible...horrible...horrible...horrible.
-david gable
Let me see. Brisk tempi, incredibly accurate playing on instruments much
like those that Bach heard and wrote for, excellent harpsichord playing by
Pinnock himself, sound that is clear and rich in color, a vigorous approach
to the music that makes it sound new, and the orchestral suites
included...yeah, simply horrible.

:-p

Don
David7Gable
2004-07-31 06:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
I've been meaning to get a copy of Debussy's La Mer, so I thought
I'd just stick with Bernstein!
I'm a big fan of Bernstein, but I'd go for the 2-CD Sony set of Boulez
conducting Debussy for one of the best recordings of La mer and extremely good
recordings of all the major orchestral works.
Post by Derek Hollman
However, I am still a
tad reluctant to buy duplicates of works with my collection still being
rather small
A very intelligent policy. After you own a few thousand CD's with samples of
everything from Guillaume Machaut to Elliott Carter, that's soon enough to
start collecting Symphonies fantastiques, Eroica's, or Rites of Spring.

-david gable
Andy Evans
2004-07-31 07:55:05 UTC
Permalink
If they have any boxes of Ansermet, I'd seriously consider them. The recordings
were very special Decca ones and still sound marvellous (some of the last to be
made on valve equipment). I'd look for his Stavinsky box, and also Falla,
Debussy and Ravel. I'm assuming you'd find them at bargain prices. If not, as
has been said - look for Boulez in the same repertoire - more expensive but as
good as it gets.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.
Allan Burns
2004-07-31 14:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
A very intelligent policy. After you own a few thousand CD's with samples of
everything from Guillaume Machaut to Elliott Carter,
I'm not sure why Elliott Carter would be a bookend. You can go on to
Arvo Part, John Adams, Wynton Marsalis, etc. . . . and might well do
so with a sense of relief! ;-)
Post by David7Gable
that's soon enough to
start collecting Symphonies fantastiques, Eroica's, or Rites of Spring.
That's one theory of collecting. It's certainly good to be eclectic
in the beginning. Otherwise how will you ever know what you like
best? But another theory is to dig deep in the things that really
interest you. A recording, after all, is of course not the music
itself but just one possible realization. Some of us would rather
have multiple realizations of music we love than even one recording of
something that means little to us (in my case that includes both
Machaut and Carter . . . but I did go through a phase where I gave
everything a fair shot . . . I made use of listening libraries,
concerts, friends' collections, and radio and only invested in what I
really liked . . . that's the method I'd recommend).

Allan
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-07-31 15:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
Post by David7Gable
A very intelligent policy. After you own a few thousand CD's with
samples of everything from Guillaume Machaut to Elliott Carter,
I'm not sure why Elliott Carter would be a bookend. You can go on to
Arvo Part, John Adams, Wynton Marsalis, etc. . . . and might well do
so with a sense of relief! ;-)
Carter's a good choice as a bookend, because he's in his nineties and still
living and composing vigorously.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Allan Burns
2004-07-31 18:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Allan Burns
I'm not sure why Elliott Carter would be a bookend. You can go on to
Arvo Part, John Adams, Wynton Marsalis, etc. . . . and might well do
so with a sense of relief! ;-)
Carter's a good choice as a bookend, because he's in his nineties and still
living and composing vigorously.
My point really had to do with generation and style. Carter
represents what you might call the last phase of "high modernism," and
as you well know, his music is ferociously dissonant and complex and,
thus, quite different from the work of many composers born in
subsequent generations. Yes, he's still alive and still composing,
but all I'm suggesting is that a representative historical survey
shouldn't stop with a composer who was born in 1908, not when
composers born in the sixties and seventies are now coming into their
own, with very different (and typically more accessible) styles.
Also, in practical terms, if you tell a novice that Carter represents
"classical music today," you might well give them a permanent phobia
about contemporary composition. Maybe not--but I'd prefer to
recommend to a newcomer something a little friendlier, such as Neeme
Jarvi's Part disc on DG or Stephen Hough playing Liebermann concertos
on Hyperion.

Allan
David7Gable
2004-08-01 03:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
I'd prefer to
recommend to a newcomer something a little friendlier, such as Neeme
Jarvi's Part disc on DG or Stephen Hough playing Liebermann concertos
on Hyperion.
I would regard it as a usurpation of my responsibility if I suggested to a
newbie that he aim that low.

-david gable
Michael
2004-07-31 15:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
That's one theory of collecting. It's certainly good to be eclectic
in the beginning. Otherwise how will you ever know what you like
best? But another theory is to dig deep in the things that really
interest you. A recording, after all, is of course not the music
itself but just one possible realization. Some of us would rather
have multiple realizations of music we love than even one recording of
something that means little to us
I'd totally agree. Sometimes picking up a second or even third
recording is simply to get some "feature" that was lacking in the
original purchase. As one example, some organ cd's have bass to around
32 hz, while other organs will go down to 16 or even 8 hz. I also have
a few mono recordings, and my favorites will be augmented by stereo
recordings at some point. (Sorry I grew up in the CD age, so mono is a
bit wierd on headphones.)

(in my case that includes both
Post by Allan Burns
Machaut and Carter . . . but I did go through a phase where I gave
everything a fair shot . . . I made use of listening libraries,
concerts, friends' collections, and radio and only invested in what I
really liked . . . that's the method I'd recommend).
Allan
We had a real nice listening room in college. While it didn't have too
many CD's, it had hundreds of classical LP's. I learned about Takemitsu
and others through this wonderful collection. Our local library carries
a few classical CD's, which is a cheap way to experiment. And for a
while I was buying "cut outs" for $1 apiece, albeit mainly "standard
repertory."

m.
David7Gable
2004-07-31 16:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
I'm not sure why Elliott Carter would be a bookend.
How do you know I was speaking chronologically?

You can go on to
Post by Allan Burns
Arvo Part, John Adams, Wynton Marsalis, etc. . . . and might well do
so with a sense of relief! ;-)
Simple minded trash is not a relief to everybody. (Don't know Marsalis the
composer, so I'm not talking about him. Have great respect for the man ever
since he explained to a young kid on TV how destructive and conformist the goal
of being "cool" is.)

-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-07-31 19:47:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Allan Burns
I'm not sure why Elliott Carter would be a bookend.
How do you know I was speaking chronologically?
Post by Allan Burns
You can go on to Arvo Part, John Adams, Wynton Marsalis, etc. . . . and
might well do so with a sense of relief! ;-)
Simple minded trash is not a relief to everybody. (Don't know Marsalis
the composer, so I'm not talking about him. Have great respect for the
man ever since he explained to a young kid on TV how destructive and
conformist the goal of being "cool" is.)
Not to try to hijack the thread or anything, but more information on that
last bit would be of interest.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
David7Gable
2004-08-01 03:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
(Don't know Marsalis
Post by David7Gable
the composer, so I'm not talking about him. Have great respect for the
man ever since he explained to a young kid on TV how destructive and
conformist the goal of being "cool" is.)
Not to try to hijack the thread or anything, but more information on that
last bit would be of interest.
I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had taped the little exchange I
saw between Marsalis and young trumpet student, but I can't do much better
than I already have in describing it, unfortunately.

-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-01 15:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
(Don't know Marsalis the composer, so I'm not talking about him. Have
great respect for the man ever since he explained to a young kid on TV
how destructive and conformist the goal of being "cool" is.)
Not to try to hijack the thread or anything, but more information on
that last bit would be of interest.
I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had taped the little
exchange I saw between Marsalis and young trumpet student, but I can't
do much better than I already have in describing it, unfortunately.
Well, thanks anyway, because you've just raised my opinion of him too.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Michael
2004-08-02 06:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by David7Gable
I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had taped the little
exchange I saw between Marsalis and young trumpet student, but I can't
do much better than I already have in describing it, unfortunately.
Well, thanks anyway, because you've just raised my opinion of him too.
I googled it and found a commencement speech where he recommends being
non-conformist and not just going after the cash. Seems kind of
contradictory, but those are college students and not younger kids. I
wasn't impressed with his composition quality, but he had a good
dumbed-down message.

michael

Hoover
2004-08-01 21:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by David7Gable
(Don't know Marsalis
Post by David7Gable
the composer, so I'm not talking about him. Have great
respect for the man ever since he explained to a young kid
on TV how destructive and conformist the goal of being
"cool" is.)
Not to try to hijack the thread or anything, but more
information on that last bit would be of interest.
I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had taped the
little exchange I saw between Marsalis and young trumpet
student, but I can't do much better than I already have in
describing it, unfortunately.
I'd be real surprised if a cursory google didn't turn up lots of
ragging on pop culture, thumpa-thumpa music, instant gratification
vs. diligent application, etc.

Right up Mr. Tepper's alley (and yours, probably).
Allan Burns
2004-08-01 00:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
How do you know I was speaking chronologically?
Machaut to Carter. Seems reasonable. But, pardon me, how were you
speaking?
Post by David7Gable
Simple minded trash
You're welcome to your opinions . . . although it's rather ironic that
you go on to complain about "civility" in another post.

Allan
David7Gable
2004-07-31 16:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
But another theory is to dig deep in the things that really
interest you. A recording, after all, is of course not the music
itself but just one possible realization.
You do not have to own even two recordings of a piece to explore it in depth.
I have multiple recordings of any number of pieces, but I deliberatedly set out
to counter an impression that a newbie could derive from this newsgroup that
the appreciation of "classical" music is somehow bound up with duplicating on
an enormous scale pieces of music, that comparing performances is what the
experience of classical music is all about. The composer, not the performer,
is the crucial element. While this fact is obvious, it is born out by the fact
that newbies much more quickly develop the ability to discriminate
compositional styles than to distinguish between performances of single pieces.
As the ability to make such distinctions gradually develops over a very long
period of time, the newbie might want to start buying second and third and
fourth performances. At the beginning it is a stupid waste of money.

-david gable
Ian Pace
2004-07-31 17:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Allan Burns
But another theory is to dig deep in the things that really
interest you. A recording, after all, is of course not the music
itself but just one possible realization.
You do not have to own even two recordings of a piece to explore it in depth.
I have multiple recordings of any number of pieces, but I deliberatedly set out
to counter an impression that a newbie could derive from this newsgroup that
the appreciation of "classical" music is somehow bound up with duplicating on
an enormous scale pieces of music, that comparing performances is what the
experience of classical music is all about. The composer, not the performer,
is the crucial element. While this fact is obvious, it is born out by the fact
that newbies much more quickly develop the ability to discriminate
compositional styles than to distinguish between performances of single pieces.
That depends on the era of the music, and the role that the 'text' has in
that era. Performances of early music can be so radically different as to
draw much more attention to that factor than the differences in style
amongst the period, when, say, different groups have different opinions on
whether to use voices alone or voices and instruments. In that sense, the
approach of a particular group of players can be more unifying over a range
of works than the unity between two different works played by two different
groups.

In contemporary scores with various degrees of indeterminacy, the same can
apply. Also true for jazz, of course, where the individual approaches of
different performers playing 'standards' becomes much more prominent than
the standards themselves.

Ian
Allan Burns
2004-08-01 01:09:31 UTC
Permalink
The composer, not the performer, is the crucial element.
Sorry, but I collect recordings by Gieseking, Horowitz, Richter,
Michelangeli, etc. Few great composers have made recordings, and I'm
not a "the performer should be a humble servant of the music" kind of
guy. Performers have personalities too, and recordings document those
personalities. That's what interests me.

You prefer Carter; I prefer Part. You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers. So what. The world's a
big place, and only a fascist demands that everyone should think the
same way and hold the same values he does.

Allan
Larry Rinkel
2004-08-01 01:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
The composer, not the performer, is the crucial element.
Sorry, but I collect recordings by Gieseking, Horowitz, Richter,
Michelangeli, etc. Few great composers have made recordings, and I'm
not a "the performer should be a humble servant of the music" kind of
guy. Performers have personalities too, and recordings document those
personalities. That's what interests me.
You prefer Carter; I prefer Part. You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers. So what. The world's a
big place, and only a fascist demands that everyone should think the
same way and hold the same values he does.
Allan
Be all that as it may, I agree completely with Gable. I'm far more
interested in what is being played than how it's being played. But note that
neither he (nor I) ever said recordings are (only) about composers, or that
performers should be humble servants, but that composers (or, I would prefer
to say, musical works) are the crucial element.
Allan Burns
2004-08-01 06:01:59 UTC
Permalink
I'm far more interested in what is being played than how it's
being played.
Even if the playing is dull or incompetent?

In reality, I suspect we're all quite interested in both "what" and
"how." We're just differing in terms of emphasis.
But note that
neither he (nor I) ever said recordings are (only) about composers, or that
performers should be humble servants, but that composers (or, I would prefer
to say, musical works) are the crucial element.
I like "musical works" as the crucial element much better--and I
appreciate the fact that you did not say "the score." After all, the
performer collaborates with the composer (via the necessarily
incomplete information contained in the score) to realize, or
re-create, the work. As a collector, the special qualities of a
particular re-creation are what interest me most, and naturally I am
fascinated by the differences between re-creations.

Consider just two extreme examples:

WTC as played by Fischer and Gould
Rach 3 as played by Horowitz and Cliburn

No one can possibly hear such recordings without realizing how
important the performer is.

Allan
Ssg217
2004-08-01 06:09:16 UTC
Permalink
[much I agree with snipped]
Post by Allan Burns
Rach 3 as played by Horowitz and Cliburn
No one can possibly hear such recordings without realizing how
important the performer is.
You are giving examples of performances compatible in worth, even if different
in style.

I would bring examples such as Beethoven's opus 110 with Brendel and with
Fischer. The difference between blatant mediocrity and genuine inspiration can
be so huge that in the end we could barely talk about *the same work*. (Of
course not literally "not the same work", but in terms of how it holds together
and how, as a whole, it gets a chance or not to pass from signs on paper to the
listener, in an existential rather than abstract experience.)

regards,
SG
Ian Pace
2004-08-01 04:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
The composer, not the performer, is the crucial element.
Sorry, but I collect recordings by Gieseking, Horowitz, Richter,
Michelangeli, etc. Few great composers have made recordings, and I'm
not a "the performer should be a humble servant of the music" kind of
guy. Performers have personalities too, and recordings document those
personalities. That's what interests me.
You prefer Carter; I prefer Part. You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers. So what. The world's a
big place, and only a fascist demands that everyone should think the
same way and hold the same values he does.
For me the nature of the work and the text affects decisions in this
respect. Some music (not necessarily that of any particular period) suggests
a greater range of interpretative possibilities than others, and different
texts imply different degrees of focus upon the performer. That said, there
are plenty of composers for whom I like to hear near-everything they have
wrote, whereas that is more rarely the case for performers (e.g. adore much
of what Horowitz does, but not bothered about hearing new recordings that
appear of him playing Beethoven or earlier composers).

Best,
Ian
David7Gable
2004-08-01 04:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Burns
You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers.
If you think any newbie can really tell the difference between performances in
most cases (other than gross distinctions), you are kidding yourself. The
ability to make fine discriminations of performances is acquired over a long
period of time very slowly through the process of listening. No amount of
advice from the experienced will ever change this fact.

What a newbie benefits most from is getting to know pieces.

-david gable
Simon Roberts
2004-08-01 13:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Allan Burns
You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers.
If you think any newbie can really tell the difference between performances in
most cases (other than gross distinctions), you are kidding yourself. The
ability to make fine discriminations of performances is acquired over a long
period of time very slowly through the process of listening.
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated. When I
started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a library or the
radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes go and buy a different
recording of the piece, on the assumption that, well, it's the same music, what
can it matter? I learned pretty fast that it did, the works in question being
Mozart's Requiem (heard Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG), Fidelio (heard Maazel, bought
Klemperer), and Bach's Magnificat (heard Barenboim, bought some crappy
performance on Turnabout cond. Couraud or some name like that). It would be a
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
Post by David7Gable
What a newbie benefits most from is getting to know pieces.
Perhaps; but some pieces can almost sound like different music, depending on the
performer. I don't think it hurts a newbie to learn the importance of the
performer in determining what the piece is.

Simon
Michael
2004-08-01 14:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated. When I
started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a library or the
radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes go and buy a different
recording of the piece, on the assumption that, well, it's the same music, what
can it matter? I learned pretty fast that it did, the works in question being
Mozart's Requiem (heard Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG),
Some thing I hear as a newbie: tempo differences, differences in organ
players, organ type, hall reverberation, recording quality, mixing
decisions, massive distortion in some budget CD's, playing mistakes in
some budget CD's, bass extension in drums, balance between sections, etc.

My advice to any newbies is be cautious of budget recordings. Naxos is
a class act IMHO, based on the limited discs I have. But some of the
stuff (other labels) released in the 90's is absolute trash. I wasted
money on a couple of discs that are unlistenable due to distortion. And
this is not audiophile snobbery, anyone would be offended by it and play
another disc.

michael
Alan Cooper
2004-08-01 14:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Post by David7Gable
Post by Allan Burns
You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers.
If you think any newbie can really tell the difference between performances in
most cases (other than gross distinctions), you are kidding yourself. The
ability to make fine discriminations of performances is acquired over a long
period of time very slowly through the process of listening.
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated. When I
started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a library or the
radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes go and buy a different
recording of the piece, on the assumption that, well, it's the same music, what
can it matter? I learned pretty fast that it did, the works in question being
Mozart's Requiem (heard Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG), Fidelio (heard Maazel, bought
Klemperer), and Bach's Magnificat (heard Barenboim, bought some crappy
performance on Turnabout cond. Couraud or some name like that). It would be a
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
By giving such an extreme example you support David's point. The vast
majority of "Eroica" recordings will provide any listener with an
adequate introduction to the work. The cheapest Beethoven cycle on
the market nowadays is probably Blomstedt's, and that's far better
than adequate.

Your actual experience as a kid was the same as mine. I listened
voraciously (radio, library, cheap records) and was far more
interested in music than in performances, which I was incapable of
judging anyway. Sometimes I got lucky performance-wise (Richter in
the Beethoven Piano Concerto #1 was one of the first records that I
bought with my own money, mainly because it came with a free bonus
record), and sometimes not (my first Rachmaninov Concerto #2 was Arpad
Sandor's, inherited from my father), but in all honesty, I couldn't
have told the difference between one performance and another, and I
liked just about everything equally well. The only exception that I
can think of is Yehudi Menuhin's stereo recording of the Elgar Violin
Concerto, from which I concluded that the piece was a dreadful bore.
In that one case, it was the performance.

AC
JRsnfld
2004-08-01 20:20:21 UTC
Permalink
<< It would be a
Post by Simon Roberts
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
By giving such an extreme example you support David's point. The vast
majority of "Eroica" recordings will provide any listener with an
adequate introduction to the work. >>

Exactly. If someone is going to like Beethoven, they're going to like it in any
of a huge range of recordings. But performance *does* make a difference and you
hate to see someone spend money on a recording that will later serve them no
purpose. A friend bought Pollini's Beethoven Appasionata recently, and studied,
and liked it. But then I played him Richter's and his conception of classical
music was shifted to a different level, realizing a performer could make such a
difference and that the music could sound (for want of a better word)
"spontaneous." Since he was a jazz fan already, this realization has made a big
difference in his respect and excitement for all classical music, not just for
Beethoven.

That said, I sheepishly add that I am the world's only fan of the Vonk
recordings. I've been a part of Eroica performances twice in the last few
years, and each time it was this Vonk/St. Louis recording (along with
Koussevitzky and Furtwangler) that gave me the deepest contentment while
reviewing the music and listening for inspiration. Go figure.

--Jeff
Matt
2004-08-01 15:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated. When I
started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a library or the
radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes go and buy a different
recording of the piece, on the assumption that, well, it's the same music, what
can it matter? I learned pretty fast that it did, the works in question being
Mozart's Requiem (heard Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG), Fidelio (heard Maazel, bought
Klemperer), and Bach's Magnificat (heard Barenboim, bought some crappy
performance on Turnabout cond. Couraud or some name like that). It would be a
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
I can still remember the moment when I realized performance actually
mattered. My orchestra director had invited a friend and me to bring in a
few examples of classical music from our own collections. Now up to this
point, being a financially strapped teenager, I had been buying second-hand
LPs and no-name cassettes with lawn mowing money because they were cheap.
One Beethoven Ninth was as good as another, right? We both brought in a
cassette that included the third Brandenburg Concerto because we had played
a student arrangement in class. Mine was from some unheard-of Eastern
European orchestra and his was Neville Marriner's recording with the ASMF.
To my ears they sounded almost like different music when played back to
back -- mine was so thick and tired and unimaginative sounding with muddy
textures and an unattractive swamp-like sound. Shortly afterwards I
invested in a copy of the Penguin Guide because I realized I desperately
needed guidance to avoid buying anything of similar ilk ever again (which,
of course, led immediately to another fallacy, viz. that there is one "best"
interpretation of a piece of music and any other is nothing more than a
compromise).

Regards,
Matt
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-01 15:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt
Post by Simon Roberts
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated.
When I started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a
library or the radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes
go and buy a different recording of the piece, on the assumption that,
well, it's the same music, what can it matter? I learned pretty fast
that it did, the works in question being Mozart's Requiem (heard
Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG), Fidelio (heard Maazel, bought Klemperer),
and Bach's Magnificat (heard Barenboim, bought some crappy performance
on Turnabout cond. Couraud or some name like that). It would be a
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
I can still remember the moment when I realized performance actually
mattered. My orchestra director had invited a friend and me to bring in
a few examples of classical music from our own collections. Now up to
this point, being a financially strapped teenager, I had been buying
second-hand LPs and no-name cassettes with lawn mowing money because
they were cheap. One Beethoven Ninth was as good as another, right? We
both brought in a cassette that included the third Brandenburg Concerto
because we had played a student arrangement in class. Mine was from some
unheard-of Eastern European orchestra and his was Neville Marriner's
recording with the ASMF. To my ears they sounded almost like different
music when played back to back -- mine was so thick and tired and
unimaginative sounding with muddy textures and an unattractive swamp-like
sound. Shortly afterwards I invested in a copy of the Penguin Guide
because I realized I desperately needed guidance to avoid buying anything
of similar ilk ever again (which, of course, led immediately to another
fallacy, viz. that there is one "best" interpretation of a piece of music
and any other is nothing more than a compromise).
How about some ways to get the word out that these are fallacies, then?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Larry Rinkel
2004-08-01 22:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
Sure; but some differences are immediately obvious to the uninitiated. When I
started collecting as a teenager, I would hear a work from a library or the
radio or a tacky record of highights, and then sometimes go and buy a different
recording of the piece, on the assumption that, well, it's the same music, what
can it matter? I learned pretty fast that it did, the works in question being
Mozart's Requiem (heard Fruebeck, bought Bohm DG), Fidelio (heard Maazel, bought
Klemperer), and Bach's Magnificat (heard Barenboim, bought some crappy
performance on Turnabout cond. Couraud or some name like that). It would be a
shame if someone's introduction to the Eroica were Vonk/St Louis.
I am starting to feel an irresistible desire to acquire that Eroica.
Rodger Whitlock
2004-08-01 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David7Gable
Post by Allan Burns
You think recordings are about
composers; I think they're about performers.
If you think any newbie can really tell the difference between performances in
most cases (other than gross distinctions), you are kidding yourself. The
ability to make fine discriminations of performances is acquired over a long
period of time very slowly through the process of listening. No amount of
advice from the experienced will ever change this fact.
What a newbie benefits most from is getting to know pieces.
Agreed. I listen to any piece of reasonably familiar music and
think "ah, it's the such-and-such. Wonder who's conducting?"

A while ago my database and I were struggling to sort out the
various recordings of Gottschalk's piano music, the elements of
which show surprising variety in the naming on CD inlays. The
only way to be sure that two works were the same was to listen to
them seriatim. As a result I listened to a lot of Gottschalk by
different pianists in an orderly way: now La Bamboula, next The
Banjo, and so on.

For sure, it's not all the precisely same: different pianists
place emphasis on different aspects of the music, audibly so. But
in the end La Bamboula is La Bamboula, whether it's Leonard
Pennario or Noel Lee playing.

[BTW, the Pennario performances made the best impression in this
comparative listening orgy. Alan Mandel (iirc) seemed to have a
lot of technical flaws: little ones, but such as to suggest the
recording was close to a sight-reading. But none of the CDs I
have of Gottschalk came across as poison to be avoided at all
costs. Haven't cross-compared the more recently acquired Noel
Lee.]
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Rodger Whitlock
2004-08-01 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
...only a fascist demands that everyone should think the
same way and hold the same values he does.
I demand that you think the same way and hold the same values as
I do.

Your aluminum-foil hat is in the mail.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
David Cook
2004-07-31 07:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's. So
anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying, and I would
appreciate any that you might have.
For $99 you can get free (but not fast) shipping from alldirect.com, and the
prices are much lower. It can be pretty hard to find things with their
simple-minded search engine, though. It usually works best to search on
composer and artists, or just artists. But sometimes only title works.

You can also search alldirect and other online shops thru
shopping.yahoo.com, but if you buy thru them you don't get the free shipping
deal. I usually find things on yahoo then try to find them directly on the
alldirect website.
Post by Derek Hollman
Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics
alldirct has this for 32.95 vs. 39.99 from Tower. Sony mid-price is usually
$7.99.

Dave Cook
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 08:03:10 UTC
Permalink
I just checked out alldirect.com. I couldn't really find anything; the
fast shipping is also a reason why I'm shopping at Tower. Tower seems to
have very good prices. Their prices even beat out the low prices of the
3rd-party marketplace amazon.com sellers (except on Swan Lake and the
Debussy sets). I'm fairly sure that I'm going to stick with Tower. Thank
you anyways.

Regards,
Derek
Post by David Cook
For $99 you can get free (but not fast) shipping from alldirect.com, and the
prices are much lower. It can be pretty hard to find things with their
simple-minded search engine, though. It usually works best to search on
composer and artists, or just artists. But sometimes only title works.
You can also search alldirect and other online shops thru
shopping.yahoo.com, but if you buy thru them you don't get the free shipping
deal. I usually find things on yahoo then try to find them directly on the
alldirect website.
Post by Derek Hollman
Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics
alldirct has this for 32.95 vs. 39.99 from Tower. Sony mid-price is usually
$7.99.
Dave Cook
Michael
2004-07-31 09:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
I just checked out alldirect.com. I couldn't really find anything; the
fast shipping is also a reason why I'm shopping at Tower. Tower seems
to have very good prices. Their prices even beat out the low prices of
the 3rd-party marketplace amazon.com sellers (except on Swan Lake and
the Debussy sets). I'm fairly sure that I'm going to stick with
Tower. Thank you anyways.
I checked out the price on a Glass CD I bought (Naxos). It was $7 at
Amazon and $8 at Tower online. I priced a Xenakis CD and it was $3
cheaper at Tower online than at Amazon. I'm going to do some more
pricing comparisons and perhaps post the results.

One big thing in favor of Amazon is free shipping over $25 on many
items. (I believe that deal is still going on.) I also save on sales
tax by purchasing online.

michael
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 10:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
One big thing in favor of Amazon is free shipping over $25 on many
items. (I believe that deal is still going on.) I also save on sales
tax by purchasing online.
Amazon may have free shipping on items over $25, but Tower has free
shipping on items over $20.
I've compared Amazon to Tower for the specific CDs I listed - Tower was
cheaper at its pre-shipping price, and Tower gave free 2 day shipping (a
huge plus for impatient teens like me). I am still in your price
comparisons however.

Regards,
Derek
Rodger Whitlock
2004-07-31 17:53:10 UTC
Permalink
...impatient teens like me...
What? A teenager? Good lord! Now hold still while we old farts
tell you how to run your life. It'll only hurt the first few
minutes or so, then you'll go numb as we drone on and on...

More than before, I urge you to look beyond "late romantic
warhorses". There's some fucking marvelous music out there, some
of it almost unknown even to aged enthusiasts. Who knows the
symphonies, wind serenades, and violin concertos of Myslivecek,
for example? Or the a capella choral works of Veljo Tormis? Not
many.

You might do well to scout around for a local place with a decent
selection of used CDs. Used are significantly cheaper than new
and will give you a chance to explore more widely. The bargain
sets you are considering buying should be about half the retail
price if you buy them secondhand. Ebay might be a good place to
look for bargains.

IMHO, the numero-uno candidate for your next purchase is Bartok's
Concerto for Orchestra.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Joshua Kaufman
2004-07-31 11:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's. So
anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying, and I would
appreciate any that you might have.
Why not goto Alldirect.com and pay even less per CD, and get the free
shipping at $99 there? Yes they don't have as much as Tower and the
selection is lower, and it has a crappy search engine, but most of the
ones you want are likely to be there.

As for what I know that you have listed....
Post by Derek Hollman
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca
I haven't found a Swan Lake (and I've heard a lot) I've truly liked the
whole way through, but this one is pretty good. The one I own is Covet
Garden/Emler (or something like that)
Post by Derek Hollman
Liszt: Les Preludes, Piano Concerto no 1, etc/Karajan, et al
DG Panorama
I know Karajan does a very good Les Predles, but no idea about the rest
of the perfoances. Looks like a halfway decent collection though.
Post by Derek Hollman
Bernstein Century - Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, etc; Grofe
Sony Classics
No no no no no. Rhapsody in Blue is cut, I don't even recommend this no
matter how good the actual performance is. If you want Grand Canyon,
there a wonderful performance on Naxos with Baranmouth/Stromburg, and
for Rhapsody a diffferent NYPO recording, with Masur conducting and Say
playing.
Post by Derek Hollman
Bernstein Century - Copland: Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, etc
Sony Classics
On the other hand, this one is wonderful, some of the best Copland I've
heard.
Post by Derek Hollman
Bernstein Century - Debussy: La Mer, Jeux, Nocturnes, etc
Sony Classics
I'm not sure how this one is, but Debussy is one case where the DG
Panaorama series got it practically perfect, especially in the
Nocturnes.

-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon Yahoo Messenger: TerraEpon
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/terraepon/
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 11:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Kaufman
Why not goto Alldirect.com and pay even less per CD, and get the free
shipping at $99 there? Yes they don't have as much as Tower and the
selection is lower, and it has a crappy search engine, but most of the
ones you want are likely to be there.
I just checked Alldirect for a second time. They didn't have two of the
CDs that I wanted. By adding equivalent CDs of the same price, the total
came out to be about fifteen dollars less. I still won't shop there:
their free shipping takes 7-28 days to arrive. I'm leaving for college in
three weeks, so there's a possibility I won't even be here for its
arrival! Tower's 2nd day shipping is much, much more appealing. Thanks
anyways though!

Regards,
Derek
Derek Hollman
2004-07-31 12:04:32 UTC
Permalink
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.

Regards,
Derek
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-07-31 15:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Pinnock/English Consort (DGG)
Academie für Alte Musik Berlin (Harmonia Mundi)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 01:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Pinnock/English Consort (DGG)
Academie für Alte Musik Berlin (Harmonia Mundi)
What he said.

Don
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-01 15:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Sacqueboutier <don-patt-***@nospam.comcast.net> appears to have caused
the following letters to be typed in news:BD31BB55.35262%don-patt-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of
the Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless
when it comes to baroque.
Pinnock/English Consort (DGG)
Academie für Alte Musik Berlin (Harmonia Mundi)
What he said.
I'd also recommend Leonhardt on Sony Seon, but I don't know if it's still
available.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 21:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in news:BD31BB55.35262%don-patt-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of
the Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless
when it comes to baroque.
Pinnock/English Consort (DGG)
Academie für Alte Musik Berlin (Harmonia Mundi)
What he said.
I'd also recommend Leonhardt on Sony Seon, but I don't know if it's still
available.
It is on two Sony discs (I think).

Funny, I just finished posting my rec for the Leonhardt and then I read
yours. Great minds think alike.


Don
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-02 00:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Sacqueboutier <don-patt-***@nospam.comcast.net> appears to have caused
the following letters to be typed in news:BD32D8CA.35490%don-patt-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of
the Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless
when it comes to baroque.
Pinnock/English Consort (DGG)
Academie für Alte Musik Berlin (Harmonia Mundi)
What he said.
I'd also recommend Leonhardt on Sony Seon, but I don't know if it's
still available.
It is on two Sony discs (I think).
Funny, I just finished posting my rec for the Leonhardt and then I read
yours. Great minds think alike.
I'm too lazy to to the detailed Google that it would take, but I think we
discovered this meeting of minds shortly after you first posted on this
group, which certainly got our mutual admiration society off to a start.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
jeffc
2004-07-31 15:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Derek, since you have the bug, you might want to invest in a CD guide that
lists many versions of many CDs, such as the Penguin guide or the Gramophone
guide. The Penguin guide lists Pinnock on DG Blue as a good choice, or if
you want a DVD, the TDK version with Von der Goltz.
David7Gable
2004-07-31 16:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffc
Derek, since you have the bug, you might want to invest in a CD guide that
lists many versions of many CDs, such as the Penguin guide or the Gramophone
guide.
But you'd do much better to use rmcr as a resource. Simon Roberts alone is
worth more than most critics in those guides, and as you post here, you can get
an impression of what people like, and if their tastes gibe with yours, follow
their advice. (The civility level has declined here over the last few years
and just the other day another regular e-mailed me privately to say that he was
departing for good, but that's another story.)

-david gable
Rodger Whitlock
2004-07-31 17:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Stay away from the Ristenpart set. These were imprint recordings
for me nearly forty years ago when I was about your age, but a
recent re-hearing revealed that they are in the much-maligned
"sewing machine" style.

I think there's (or was) a Raymond Leppard set on Philips. Try
that if you want modern instruments.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Raymond Hall
2004-08-01 03:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Stay away from the Ristenpart set. These were imprint recordings
for me nearly forty years ago when I was about your age, but a
recent re-hearing revealed that they are in the much-maligned
"sewing machine" style.
I think there's (or was) a Raymond Leppard set on Philips. Try
that if you want modern instruments.
I'll agree with Leppard and the ECO, on two well filled Philips Solo CDs,
(probably well out of print by now), for the Brandenburgs, plus Grumiaux in
two violin concertos, and another concerto for harpsichord, flute, etc.
Philips 442 386-2 and 442 387-2. Tafelmusik (Jeanne Lamon) is quite good in
several as well, (they escape the sewing-machine approach, and the music
swings), but wouldn't be my first choice for a set.

Basically, I concur with those that have recommended performances of music,
rather than pay extra wallop for performers that feature prominently on CD
covers. Be adventurous, and if you love the Brandenburgs, then try
Telemann's Tafelmusik (a 4 CD set on Brilliant Classics). Life enhancing
stuff.

For Liszt, then get Arpad Joo's Liszt tone poems on same label (licensed
from Hungaraton), and you won't find better.

If you cannot drop on Boulez for the Debussy, then consider Haitink's
wonderful set of Debussy's orchestral music with the Concertgebouw on a
Philips Duo.

As for the (and I agree) wonderful critiques given by Simon R, then yes, he
is quite good <g>. For Haydn and Beethoven, and some of the early 19th
century dudes, he knows his stuff, but I sincerely hope you spread your net
much wider musically. Simon has an aversion to Debussy, which is a flaw
almost beyond repair.
<g>

Try a Bax symphony on Naxos, the Ives first two symphonies, and Dvorak's
*other* symphonies. The 7th is a beaut, and even the earlier ones too. Then
get Tintner's Bruckner 3rd on Naxos.

As for Beethoven, then the HvK 1962 symphony set should suffice. All the
rest of the talk here, is largely performer driven about war-horses that
will drive you insane, but composers, and newer ones, are what it is really
all about.

Imo.

Ray H
Taree
Rodger Whitlock
2004-08-01 17:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Try a Bax symphony on Naxos, the Ives first two symphonies, and Dvorak's
*other* symphonies. The 7th is a beaut, and even the earlier ones too. Then
get Tintner's Bruckner 3rd on Naxos.
Nix on Bax. He's not first-rate, never was, never will be. Ayone
who thinks otherwise definitely needs a session or two of serious
thought reform. There are infinitely many more composers and
works that it's more *important* for our newly hatched enthusiast
to get to know.

Ives I'd hold back on for a while. The first two symphonies are
not characteristic, and his music is generally hard to get your
head around. If our n.h.e. wants Ives, I'd say go for his magnum
opus, the Three Places in New England, an immortal masterpiece
that is also approachable. Some of the smaller works such as The
Unanswered Question might be suitable for a beginner whose
stomach for stronger music isn't yet sufficiently toughened.

Dvorak, yes. The opening of the 3rd's 3rd movement reduces me to
tears unfailingly. As for Bruckner, I have to question the
recommendation of Tintner. I'd point our n.h.e. toward, say,
Jochum.
Post by Raymond Hall
As for Beethoven, then the HvK 1962 symphony set should suffice.
No argument, but how can one neglect a performance likened to
yaks jumping around?
Post by Raymond Hall
All the
rest of the talk here, is largely performer driven about war-horses that
will drive you insane, but composers, and newer ones, are what it is really
all about.
You are right to put some emphasis on newer composers, but not to
the neglect of older ones. Great music is great music whatever
its age.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-01 17:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Try a Bax symphony on Naxos, the Ives first two symphonies, and
Dvorak's *other* symphonies. The 7th is a beaut, and even the earlier
ones too. Then get Tintner's Bruckner 3rd on Naxos.
Nix on Bax. He's not first-rate, never was, never will be. Ayone who
thinks otherwise definitely needs a session or two of serious thought
reform. There are infinitely many more composers and works that it's more
*important* for our newly hatched enthusiast to get to know.
So you think Bax sux? Just lately I finally got around to listening to the
first two symphonies in Chandos' big green Handley Bax box, and while I
would never claim they are the most structurally "argued" works around,
there is much inchoate beauty in them. Definitely for experienced tastes,
however. I particularly look forward to hearing #3 and "Tintagel."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Rodger Whitlock
2004-08-02 05:03:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 17:57:39 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Nix on Bax. He's not first-rate, never was, never will be.
So you think Bax sux?
Wouldn't say quite that. But I find his music quite un-memorable.
The cognoscenti go on and on about the "ecstasy" but frankly I
find it a disorganized mish-mash of a hodge-podge.

Our newly-hatched enthusiast can explore such obscure corners of
the repertory later on, after he's dry behind the ears. But Bax
at this stage? No.

I won't mention Delius or Howard Hanson or any of a large number
of other second-string composers.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Raymond Hall
2004-08-02 01:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Raymond Hall
Try a Bax symphony on Naxos, the Ives first two symphonies, and Dvorak's
*other* symphonies. The 7th is a beaut, and even the earlier ones too. Then
get Tintner's Bruckner 3rd on Naxos.
Nix on Bax. He's not first-rate, never was, never will be. Ayone
who thinks otherwise definitely needs a session or two of serious
thought reform. There are infinitely many more composers and
works that it's more *important* for our newly hatched enthusiast
to get to know.
Hmmm. No particular comment on that, except that my ears tell me different.
Certainly Vaughan Williams is a more major composer, more internationally
known, but his symphonies, unlike those of Bax, are more individual and
unique in many respects, and it would be a dire shame to direct a newbie to
the 5th, or to the very different 8th, while accepting that the 2nd and the
4th are also totally different in mood, and with each other. With Bax, one
has a canon that progresses in a more *orderly* way. His earlier symphonies
are better for newbies methinks (avoiding the 4th to begin with). For sheer
lushness of orchestration, and for the realisation that 20th century music
does not have to be a painful listening experience, then I'd still stick
with Bax. Remember that our suggestions are meant to be launching pads only,
and references in time, from which to leap in directions of inclination.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Ives I'd hold back on for a while. The first two symphonies are
not characteristic, and his music is generally hard to get your
head around. If our n.h.e. wants Ives, I'd say go for his magnum
opus, the Three Places in New England, an immortal masterpiece
that is also approachable. Some of the smaller works such as The
Unanswered Question might be suitable for a beginner whose
stomach for stronger music isn't yet sufficiently toughened.
The Holidays symphony (all four movements) might have been a better
suggestion for Ives. But more Dvorak/Brahms can't be bad, blended as they
are in the first two symphonies.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Dvorak, yes. The opening of the 3rd's 3rd movement reduces me to
tears unfailingly. As for Bruckner, I have to question the
recommendation of Tintner. I'd point our n.h.e. toward, say,
Jochum.
Tintner's 3rd is rather special though, and easily acquired. Mandatory for
all Brucknerians, I'd say. One could have easily have mentioned the B4, but
Walter and Böhm may be difficult to acquire. Besides which, the Tintner is
wonderfully recorded.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Raymond Hall
As for Beethoven, then the HvK 1962 symphony set should suffice.
No argument, but how can one neglect a performance likened to
yaks jumping around?
As long as they are not Formula 1 yaks, then I would agree.
<g>
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Raymond Hall
All the
rest of the talk here, is largely performer driven about war-horses that
will drive you insane, but composers, and newer ones, are what it is really
all about.
You are right to put some emphasis on newer composers, but not to
the neglect of older ones. Great music is great music whatever
its age.
Absolutely, and which is why I have stressed Telemann's Tafelmusik. One
could easily have mentioned Monteverdi, or Corelli, or Josquin, or
Boismortier, and I would never deny the sheer quality and power and beauty
of much early music.


Ray H
Taree
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 21:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when
it
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Derek Hollman
comes to baroque.
Stay away from the Ristenpart set. These were imprint recordings
for me nearly forty years ago when I was about your age, but a
recent re-hearing revealed that they are in the much-maligned
"sewing machine" style.
I think there's (or was) a Raymond Leppard set on Philips. Try
that if you want modern instruments.
I'll agree with Leppard and the ECO, on two well filled Philips Solo CDs,
(probably well out of print by now), for the Brandenburgs, plus Grumiaux in
two violin concertos, and another concerto for harpsichord, flute, etc.
Philips 442 386-2 and 442 387-2. Tafelmusik (Jeanne Lamon) is quite good in
several as well, (they escape the sewing-machine approach, and the music
swings), but wouldn't be my first choice for a set.
Basically, I concur with those that have recommended performances of music,
rather than pay extra wallop for performers that feature prominently on CD
covers. Be adventurous, and if you love the Brandenburgs, then try
Telemann's Tafelmusik (a 4 CD set on Brilliant Classics). Life enhancing
stuff.
For Liszt, then get Arpad Joo's Liszt tone poems on same label (licensed
from Hungaraton), and you won't find better.
If you cannot drop on Boulez for the Debussy, then consider Haitink's
wonderful set of Debussy's orchestral music with the Concertgebouw on a
Philips Duo.
As for the (and I agree) wonderful critiques given by Simon R, then yes, he
is quite good <g>. For Haydn and Beethoven, and some of the early 19th
century dudes, he knows his stuff, but I sincerely hope you spread your net
much wider musically. Simon has an aversion to Debussy, which is a flaw
almost beyond repair.
<g>
Try a Bax symphony on Naxos, the Ives first two symphonies, and Dvorak's
*other* symphonies. The 7th is a beaut, and even the earlier ones too. Then
get Tintner's Bruckner 3rd on Naxos.
As for Beethoven, then the HvK 1962 symphony set should suffice. All the
rest of the talk here, is largely performer driven about war-horses that
will drive you insane, but composers, and newer ones, are what it is really
all about.
Imo.
Ray H
Taree
What he said (though I still prefer Pinnock in the Brandenburgs).

Don
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 01:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when it
comes to baroque.
Regards,
Derek
Once again...

Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock

Don
Matthew B. Tepper
2004-08-01 15:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Sacqueboutier <don-patt-***@nospam.comcast.net> appears to have caused
the following letters to be typed in news:BD31BB23.35261%don-patt-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when
it comes to baroque.
Regards,
Derek
Once again...
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
As you know...as you know...as you know...as you know...

I agree...I agree...I agree...I agree...
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 21:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in news:BD31BB23.35261%don-patt-
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by Derek Hollman
Ah, after doing some more CD browsing, I've decided to buy a set of the
Brandenburg Concertos. Any recommended recordings? I'm clueless when
it comes to baroque.
Regards,
Derek
Once again...
Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock...Pinnock
As you know...as you know...as you know...as you know...
I agree...I agree...I agree...I agree...
Also Leonhardt on Sony (or Seon if you can find it on ebay).

Don
Owen Hartnett
2004-07-31 13:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's. So
anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying, and I would
appreciate any that you might have.
Here's a couple of CD's I think you might like, which are from the same
period, but should get you into a little more orthogonal mode of
listening:

Van Cliburn/Kondrashin: Tchaikovsky Concerto No 1/Rachmaninoff
Concerto No 2. Yeah, you already have the Tchaikovsky #1, but this is
the one that won the 1958 Tchaikovsky competition and sent ripples
through the cold war. Besides, it's still one of the finest (if not
still the finest) recordings of the work. Besides, the Rachmaninoff is
also one of the finest recordings of that work, which I think you'll
like, as well. It's a recording that never wears out its welcome.
$13.99 at amazon, but well worth it.

Nathan Milstein/William Steinberg: Brahms Violin concerto in
D/Tchaikovsky Violin concerto. The Tchaikovsky is great, but the
Brahms is superb. Only 3.98 at Amazon, similar prices elsewhere.

Horowitz plays Rachmaninov: Not only is this a superb collection of
Rachmaninoff's short pieces, but the excellent Reiner/Horowitz 3rd
concerto is also on the disk. This is 10.99 at Amazon, but I've seen
it for $7.99 in places.

Beethoven Piano Concerto Nos 1-4 George Szell and Emil Gilels. A 2
disk set it's 16.98 at Amazon.

Mahler, Symphony #4. Klaus Tennstedt/LSO. The slow movement is the
most compelling playing I've heard anywhere, and you can get it on a
bargain disk (though the current price at Amazon seems high). Or try
Bernstein's first recording with the New york Philharmonic.

-Owen

P.S. We ought to put together a basic repertoire with only bargain
disks.

-O
Gerrit Stolte
2004-07-31 13:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Owen Hartnett
Beethoven Piano Concerto Nos 1-4 George Szell and Emil Gilels. A 2
disk set it's 16.98 at Amazon.
16.98 for more than two hours of boring performances? Compared to all those
outstanding jobs Szell did, accompanying soloists in concert repertoire,
this is just a stinker. Szell did better with Fleisher, Gilels with
Sanderling.

Gerrit
Owen Hartnett
2004-07-31 15:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerrit Stolte
Post by Owen Hartnett
Beethoven Piano Concerto Nos 1-4 George Szell and Emil Gilels. A 2
disk set it's 16.98 at Amazon.
16.98 for more than two hours of boring performances? Compared to all those
outstanding jobs Szell did, accompanying soloists in concert repertoire,
this is just a stinker. Szell did better with Fleisher, Gilels with
Sanderling.
I find them pretty good, but go for the Fleisher if you wish. That's
also available on discount CD's, though the sound is the typical
Sony/Columbia distant and muddy.

-Owen
Allen
2004-07-31 14:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection
is still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend
a hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out
the prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than
amazon's. So anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying,
and I would appreciate any that you might have.
<snip list>
I'm not going to suggest any specific compositions, performances, etc.
I just want to say that when I first became interested in classical
music over sixty years ago, your selections (compositions, not specific
recordings) matches pretty closely with what interested me then. As a
matter of fact, the first classical set I bought was a 2-record set (12
inch 78s) of Les Preludes. My tastes have changed and expanded
tremendously over the years, but I think you are on the right track here
by selecting a very approachable bunch. Try them. If you like any of
them, or don't, you will have learned something. You have to listen for
yourself, and make your own choices. I could give you complete
instructions about driving a car, or operating a computer, or what have
you, but you have to get behind the wheel, or sit down at the keyboard
to comprehend how to do it. Go, man! Enjoy! There is sooooooo much
there to love or hate!
Allen
jeffc
2004-07-31 15:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's.
They are not less than Amazon's used CD prices - that's what you probably
should check out.
Post by Derek Hollman
Whew, that took longer than I expected. If I'm missing anything
essential, feel free to recommend! I'm still new to classical, so please
keep that in mind. Thanks.
Rather than saying what you have and what you've ordered, say what you like
the most and least, and get suggestions for more of the same, or different.
Michael
2004-07-31 17:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffc
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's.
They are not less than Amazon's used CD prices - that's what you probably
should check out.
But these CD's are mailed out from individuals and (3rd party)
businesses no? So you'll get nailed with multiple shipping charges.
Unless I misunderstood how the used sale works.

Perhaps one is still "ahead" of purchasing new.

On a related note (cheapness), has anyone tried BMG classical? I'm
already a member of Columbia House DVD club, but they did away with
classical stuff, or reduced it. I'm cautious to try BMG since I heard
mixed reviews in the eighties and nineties.

For other cheap stuff, I used to pick up cutouts at a bricks and mortar
out of state (atlanta). However, the local Towers in my city has
downsized the classical section, and there's hardly any regular CD's,
much less cut outs. I suppose I'll try Amazon.

Sorry to the OP for polluting his thread. :-)

michael
Eltjo Meijer
2004-07-31 15:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
The total comes to about $122
That buys a lot of Brilliant Classics cd's...

Details:
www.joanrecords.com/classical/brilliant/bril-index.html

Prices:
www.zweitausendeins.de/indexengl.htm
(search for "Brilliant Classics")

Eltjo Meijer
***@n@doo.nl
(a=@=a, 1=e)
Raymond Hall
2004-08-01 03:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eltjo Meijer
Post by Derek Hollman
The total comes to about $122
That buys a lot of Brilliant Classics cd's...
Exactly. Blomstedt's Beethoven box, Arpad Joo's Liszt, Telemann's Tafelmusik
are just three very inexpensive items that just come OTTOMH.

Ray H
Taree
Eltjo Meijer
2004-08-01 11:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Eltjo Meijer
Post by Derek Hollman
The total comes to about $122
That buys a lot of Brilliant Classics cd's...
Exactly. Blomstedt's Beethoven box, Arpad Joo's Liszt, Telemann's Tafelmusik
are just three very inexpensive items that just come OTTOMH.
and Couperin's chamber music, S. Richter box, Brahms' choral works,
Schumann's choral works, Dvorák's string quartets, Martinu's string
quartets, Handel's Italian cantatas, Sibelius' symphonies and......

Eltjo Meijer
***@n@doo.nl
(a=@=a, 1=e)
Larry Rinkel
2004-07-31 16:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Whew, that took longer than I expected. If I'm missing anything
essential, feel free to recommend!
Your lists stick predominantly to standard orchestral classics from the 19th
century, with a bit of baroque, a bit of contemporary, and a bit of piano
thrown in. That's a perfectly fine way to start, and I enjoy most of the
works you've mentioned, though in many cases I prefer different performers.
The concern for me, though, is that I'd hope you don't lock yourself into
only this segment of the repertory. Even within the time frame of c.
1720-1920, there are genres and works I would consider "essential" that you
haven't listed at all. Most obviously, there is no vocal music (no opera,
art song, or choral music), no chamber music (string quartets, piano trios,
and the like), or contemporary music other than early Stravinsky. David
Gable may or may not have been speaking with tongue in cheek when he brought
up Machaut, Monteverdi, and Carter, but they're all major composers worth
your investigating at some point. Perhaps not to start with, though. For
someone new to classical music who would like a wider sampling of the
repertory, here's a short list of notable works I'd encourage you to put on
your list for the near future:

Bach, Cantatas 80, 140, 78
Beethoven, String Quartets Opp. 59 1-3 and 95
Schubert, Schwanengesang
Verdi, Rigoletto or La Traviata
Bartok, String Quartets 3-6

As for which recording, you can query the rmcr archives through Google for
that. But I would certainly steer you at this point towards acquiring a
wider range of repertory rather than duplicate performances of works you
already have. And as for ordering from Tower, there are probably cheaper
ways to go, such as buying used copies from Amazon Marketplace or bidding on
eBay.
Rodger Whitlock
2004-07-31 17:53:07 UTC
Permalink
...the CDs that I plan on buying: ...
Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics
I'm sure you've read the current thread on this. Lemme suggest
that you try one of the Jacobs recordings on Nonesuch. They are
much more to the point than Gieseking -- real desert island
stuff.
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca
Since you already have one of the big Tchaikovsky ballets, I'd
suggest holding off on getting another until you've explored the
repertory a bit more widely.
Bernstein Century - Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, etc; Grofe
Sony Classics
Bernstein Century - Copland: Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, etc
Sony Classics
Bernstein Century - Debussy: La Mer, Jeux, Nocturnes, etc
Sony Classics
Bernstein Century - Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade, etc
Sony Classics
Bernstein was a great conductor, but I wonder if it's wise to
concentrate so heavily on him at this stage. And since you
already have some Gershwin, my comments about wider exploration
apply. Monteux and Munch are famous conductors of Debussy, while
Beecham's Scheherazade is still widely considered the benchmark
performance.
...I am still a
tad reluctant to buy duplicates of works with my collection still being
rather small
Change "a tad" to "pretty" or "very" and you'll do better. I've
upgraded my CD inventory database in the last six months with the
side effect I can crank out statistics more easily. I have about
3600 CDs, containing in total about 14,000 performances of some
8000 different works. A conservative guess is that at least half
of those works are worth listening to more than once.

IOW, the repertory of worthy works is a lot bigger than you might
think. Since, as you say, you are new to classical music, my
advice is to range quite widely among these treasures. Don't let
anyone's remarks put you off a specific composer or work: you
might be missing something that you'd like.
Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky: Firebird Suite/Scherzos, Le Sacre du
Printemps/Petrushka, Symphony of Psalms/Symphony in C/Symphony in Three
Movements
Some think that Stravinsky-conducts-Stravinsky is the last word
on these works, others that Stravinsky was not a particularly
good conductor of his own music. You might want to solicit
suggestions for recordings of these with more heft.
Dvorak: Sypmhonies 7,8,9, Scherzo Capriccioso; Dohnanyi (I love Dvorak's
9th)
Everybody loves Dvorak's ninth. Don't listen to it too often;
it's too good to become background music. Save it for special
occasions -- as you should the Beetgarden symphonies.
Vivaldi: Four Seasons Concertos, other Concertos; Pinnock
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 4 - 6; Kubelik
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 5&6, Romeo & Juliet; Bernstein
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Piano Concerto 1, Piano Sonata 2, Scherzo 2, Piano
Concerto 2(Ashkenazy)
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas 8, 14, 15, 17, 21, 23, 26; Ashekenazy
Dvorak: Slavonic Dances, Symphonic Poems, Overtures; Kubelik
Chopin: Waltzes 1-4; Dinu Lipatti
Whew, that took longer than I expected. If I'm missing anything
essential, feel free to recommend! I'm still new to classical, so please
keep that in mind.
Do you really want me to start listing some 4000 worthy works?
<eg>

I'm going to suggest some other directions to go in: Haydn (esp.
the last 12 symphonies and the late masses); Vaughan Williams;
Nielsen; Sibelius; Satie; Bach organ music (be very very picky on
this); Holst's Planets; Bartok (nearly anything).

That's just a few, but we gotta get you away from the warhorses
and open your ears to the incredible wealth of other music in
other styles that's out there. Warhorses attained that status for
good reason, but it's never too early to start developing truly
depraved tastes.

Have fun.
--
Rodger Whitlock, Victoria, BC, Canada
"Hell, each day I go out and make the universe anew - all over!"
-Carl Ruggles at an advanced age of decrepitude
Derek Hollman
2004-08-01 00:19:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:53:07 GMT, Rodger Whitlock
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Derek Hollman
Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics
I'm sure you've read the current thread on this. Lemme suggest
that you try one of the Jacobs recordings on Nonesuch. They are
much more to the point than Gieseking -- real desert island
stuff.
Haha, of course I read the current thread on this! I was the one who
started it after all! :) I previewed all the alternatives. Gieseking
just did it for me. I liked his 50's recordings more than his 30's too.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Post by Derek Hollman
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca
Since you already have one of the big Tchaikovsky ballets, I'd
suggest holding off on getting another until you've explored the
repertory a bit more widely.
I was thinking the same thing actually. But I was also thinking since I
loved the Nutcracker so much, I should pick up another ballet by
Tchaikovsky! Nevertheless, I am still considering dropping it.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Bernstein was a great conductor, but I wonder if it's wise to
concentrate so heavily on him at this stage. And since you
already have some Gershwin, my comments about wider exploration
apply. Monteux and Munch are famous conductors of Debussy, while
Beecham's Scheherazade is still widely considered the benchmark
performance.
I might drop Bernstein's La Mer performance in favor of Boulez's.
However, I am really interested in how he interprets my favorites.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Some think that Stravinsky-conducts-Stravinsky is the last word
on these works, others that Stravinsky was not a particularly
good conductor of his own music. You might want to solicit
suggestions for recordings of these with more heft.
I loved Stravinsky conducting his own work. I, too, love his work. I
will probably put off buying any more interpretations of his work, for I
am still blown away from what I have heard so far.
Post by Rodger Whitlock
I'm going to suggest some other directions to go in: Haydn (esp.
the last 12 symphonies and the late masses); Vaughan Williams;
Nielsen; Sibelius; Satie; Bach organ music (be very very picky on
this); Holst's Planets; Bartok (nearly anything).
That's just a few, but we gotta get you away from the warhorses
and open your ears to the incredible wealth of other music in
other styles that's out there. Warhorses attained that status for
good reason, but it's never too early to start developing truly
depraved tastes.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

Regards,
Derek
Lookingglass
2004-08-01 13:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Since you already have one of the big Tchaikovsky ballets, I'd
suggest holding off on getting another until you've explored the
repertory a bit more widely.
I was thinking the same thing actually. But I was also thinking since I
loved the Nutcracker so much, I should pick up another ballet by
Tchaikovsky! Nevertheless, I am still considering dropping it.
Regards,
Derek
Why wait?... although if you love the Nutcracker, I think you should go for
his Sleeping Beauty before Swan Lake... SL is early Tchaikovsky... his SB is
supreme...

Peace...................Dave
www.Shemakhan.com
Joshua Kaufman
2004-08-01 16:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lookingglass
Post by Derek Hollman
Post by Rodger Whitlock
Since you already have one of the big Tchaikovsky ballets, I'd
suggest holding off on getting another until you've explored the
repertory a bit more widely.
I was thinking the same thing actually. But I was also thinking since I
loved the Nutcracker so much, I should pick up another ballet by
Tchaikovsky! Nevertheless, I am still considering dropping it.
Regards,
Derek
Why wait?... although if you love the Nutcracker, I think you should go for
his Sleeping Beauty before Swan Lake... SL is early Tchaikovsky... his SB is
supreme...
I disagree. SB is less melodic, even if it's more refined. SL is much
more comparible to The Nutcracker.

-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon Yahoo Messenger: TerraEpon
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/terraepon/
Lookingglass
2004-08-01 23:55:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Kaufman
Post by Lookingglass
Why wait?... although if you love the Nutcracker, I think you should go for
his Sleeping Beauty before Swan Lake... SL is early Tchaikovsky... his SB is
supreme...
I disagree. SB is less melodic, even if it's more refined. SL is much
more comparible to The Nutcracker.
-Joshua
That's funny... I don't think I ever thought of ANY Tchaikovsky as being
"less melodic"...
to each his own BUT......... IMHO the score for Sleeping Beauty is
sublime... the 3rd act alone is more melodic than SL (don't get me wrong, I
love SL)......... VERY melodic. ;^)


Peace...................Dave
www.Shemakhan.com
Simon Roberts
2004-07-31 19:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, there's still a lot of music that I want to buy (my collection is
still rather small), and Tower records has a deal that if you spend a
hundred dollars, you get free 2day shipping. Awesome. I checked out the
prices, too, and most of their prices are listed less than amazon's. So
anyways, I'm going to list the CDs that I plan on buying, and I would
appreciate any that you might have.
I'm not going to answer that question (partly because I don't care for any of
the music on your list); instead, in answer to another, I will recommend the
Brandenburgs by AAM Berlin/Harmonia Mundi or MAK/DG (unless you prefer modern
instruments; if so, Leppard) and express surprise that anyone would recommend
you start with the orchestral suites instead.

My main point in replying is to make three suggestions. First, see if there's a
library near you so you can sample music for free and try to figure out what you
like. Second, unless you're in a hurry, you *don't* need to spend $100 a pop at
Tower; they offer free shipping if you spend more than $25 (or $20 or whatever
it is); it's not second day, but in my experience it's pretty fast. Third,
consider some of the much cheaper alternatives, such as the Berkshire Record
Outlet and the BMG Music Club (people are constantly whining about the latter's
inflated shipping/handling charges, but most of the time they have a sale of
some sort in which the cost of a single full price CD ends up at $7-8).

Simon
Derek Hollman
2004-08-01 00:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Roberts
My main point in replying is to make three suggestions. First, see if there's a
library near you so you can sample music for free and try to figure out what you
like. Second, unless you're in a hurry, you *don't* need to spend $100 a pop at
Tower; they offer free shipping if you spend more than $25 (or $20 or whatever
it is); it's not second day, but in my experience it's pretty fast.
Third,
consider some of the much cheaper alternatives, such as the Berkshire Record
Outlet and the BMG Music Club (people are constantly whining about the latter's
inflated shipping/handling charges, but most of the time they have a sale of
some sort in which the cost of a single full price CD ends up at $7-8).
Simon
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure if my library carries classical
music (though I'm 90% sure that they do), so I'll check it out. I know
that I don't need to spend a hundred dollars all at once, but I like the
music so much that I thought that I should. I'm spending the money on
something I immensely enjoy, so I have no quarrels in doing it. The 2nd
day shipping really does it for me though. I ordered all the "on-the-way"
CDs that I listed from third party amazon.com sellers. I've been going
nuts waiting for them (ordered the bulk of them on the 21st). The 2nd day
shipping will hopefully save me the headache this time around. Thanks for
the Bach recommendation.

Regards,
Derek
JRsnfld
2004-08-01 09:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Derek:

Don made some good suggestions about using the library and other sellers. I
want to reinforce that notion--your university ought to be a good resource, and
if you are going to school in or near New York, Boston, LA, Portland,
Princeton, or San Francisco, at the very least you should remember that many
cheap used CDs will be available to you--far cheaper than Tower.

As for stretching your dollars so you can accomodate the suggestions you've
gotten:

Debussy/Gieseking ($39.99)--good choice, but you might want to start small
here. Maybe just get the Preludes with Gieseking for $9.99 on EMI; and add
Moravec's 2-disc Vox Box with Images, Estampes, and some Chopin for $9.99. You
save: $20.

Tchaikovsky/Dutoit ($27.99). Good but overpriced. I agree that you should
"follow your bliss" and buy another Tchaikovsky ballet, since you like the
Nutcracker. And Swan Lake is even better than the Nutcracker, so you'll be glad
you did it. Get Ozawa/BSO on DG for $15.99 or Sawallisch/Philadelphia for
$11.99 on EMI. You save $12 or 18 and have an equal or better performance.

Liszt: Les Preludes on DG Panorama. OK--filled with good stuff and great
performers. $17.99. It will hard to prevent duplications if you buy this and
decide you like Liszt, but you won't be sorry you have it.

Bernstein/Gershwin etc. $9.74. If you want the complete Rhapsody in Blue, in
better sound, coupled with the wonderful Concerto in F, spend 25 cents more and
get Previn on EMI.

Bernstein/Debussy. $9.74. You could do worse, but Boulez is a better choice.
Believe David Gable, this is a sensational peformance. Get the Boulez 2-disc
set on Sony and get much more Debussy for only $16.49. Or get the equally
fabulous Philips duo featuring Haitink, for $17.99.

Bernstein/Rimsky. $9.74. Not bad. Slightly cheaper, in marginally better or
equivalent sound, is Muti/Philadelphia for $7.99, and you get Respighi's
exquisite Fountains of Rome, a great favorite of many listeners.

With $33 saved, you can get some Bach and Haydn.

--Jeff
Sacqueboutier
2004-08-01 01:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics
Masterful.
Post by Derek Hollman
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca
Very reliable recording. Great sound, great orchestra, and good conducting
(that doesn't quite match the excitement of Dorati or Rozhdestvinsky).
Post by Derek Hollman
Liszt: Les Preludes, Piano Concerto no 1, etc/Karajan, et al
DG Panorama
Bernstein Century - Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, etc; Grofe
Sony Classics
Good disc.
Post by Derek Hollman
Bernstein Century - Copland: Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, etc
Sony Classics
If I had to live with only one Appalachian Spring, this would be the one.
Post by Derek Hollman
Bernstein Century - Debussy: La Mer, Jeux, Nocturnes, etc
Sony Classics
Bernstein Century - Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade, etc
Sony Classics
I have this on LP. Bernstein is good at playing up the "Technicolor"
moments as though this were a film score. It works in its strange, unique
way.
Post by Derek Hollman
Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky: Firebird Suite/Scherzos, Le Sacre du
Printemps/Petrushka, Symphony of Psalms/Symphony in C/Symphony in Three
Movements
CBS Records
From the master himself.
Post by Derek Hollman
Beethoven Symphonies 7,8,9; Kubelik
DG
String Serenades: Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Suk
Virgin Classics
Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker; Gergiev (Beautiful!)
Philips
I find this one a bit fast. Having seen my daughters staged in this a few
times, I find Gergiev's tempi "undancable". Yet, it's bracing and exciting
in its own way. The battle scene takes your breath away.
Post by Derek Hollman
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concertos/Violin Concerto; Rozhdestvensky/Dutoit
Decca
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade (Karajan), Tsar Saltan Suite (Ashkenazy),
Capriccio Espagnol (Maazel), Rsussian Easter Festival Overture
(Markevitch), Symphony No. 2 (Jarvi), Golden Cockerel: Suite (Markevitch)
DG Panorama
A good collection, with the Markevitch items being of most interest.
Post by Derek Hollman
Dvorak: Sypmhonies 7,8,9, Scherzo Capriccioso; Dohnanyi (I love Dvorak's
9th)
Decca
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris, Piano Concerto in F (some
of my absolute favorites; I adore Gershwin); Fiedler/Wild
RCA
I can't imagine a better paring for these works. They sound like they are
having a great time, don't they?
Post by Derek Hollman
Here is a list of stuff I have bought over the last week and is still
Vivaldi: Four Seasons Concertos, other Concertos; Pinnock
DG Panorama
A great recording. Bracing tempi, colorful string sounds, it brings this
tired old dog to life once again.
Post by Derek Hollman
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 4 - 6; Kubelik
DG
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 5&6, Romeo & Juliet; Bernstein
DG Panorama
See earlier comments in email. Bernstein is very self-indulgent here...more
so than in his earlier Columbia(Sony) recordings.
Post by Derek Hollman
Chopin: 24 Preludes, Piano Concerto 1, Piano Sonata 2, Scherzo 2, Piano
Concerto 2(Ashkenazy)
DG Panorama
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas 8, 14, 15, 17, 21, 23, 26; Ashekenazy
Decca
Dvorak: Slavonic Dances, Symphonic Poems, Overtures; Kubelik
DG
I've had these on LP for many years and just recently bought the CD. The
recording is as great as I remembered.
Post by Derek Hollman
Chopin: Waltzes 1-4; Dinu Lipatti
EMI
I know someone on this NG who is a great admirer of Lipatti. I respect his
musical opinions, so I would say this is good. I think I need to buy some
Lipatti discs.

:-)

Don
Derek Hollman
2004-08-01 09:51:48 UTC
Permalink
I need to hurry up and place my order already. I keep finding more and
more music that I want to buy. I guess that's a good thing though.
Anyways, there are two reasons for this reply:

1) I'm post my updated list of CDs I plan to buy

2) I wish to ask for a good first recording of Mozart's Requiem. I've
never hears Sussmayer's version, nor Levins or whoever else did it.
However, the non-Sussmayer versions sound intriguing. I might wait to buy
a copy of this work, however, and go to my library to see if I can preview
a few mentioned recordings.

Without any further delay, here's my updated list for those who are
interested (the total is now $148):

Debussy: The Complete Works for Piano / Walter Gieseking
EMI Classics

Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake / Dutoit, Montreal SO
London/Decca

Bernstein Century - Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, etc; Grofe
Sony Classics

Bernstein Century - Copland: Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, etc
Sony Classics

Bernstein Century - Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade, etc
Sony Classics

*Horowitz plays Rachmaninoff: Sonata No. 2, Concerto No. 3, etc
RCA Victor Gold Seal

*Brahms/Tchaikovsky Violin Concertos (for $3.99 you can't go wrong!)
EMI Sepharim

*Mendelssohn: Italian Symphony, Violin Concerto, Octet, etc
DG Panorama

*Mozart: Symphonies nos 35-41 / Karajan, Berlin PO
DG Double

* denotes an addition.
I dropped Bernstein's La Mer and the Liszt DG Panorama. I'm thinking
about dropping the Rachmaninoff or Mendelsshon for Boulez's La Mer and
dropping Mozart's Symphonies for Mozart's Requiem. Finally, I'm
considering dropping two of the Bernstein discs which feature works I
already have. I'll eventually buy them, but I'm considering dropping
them, for it will lower the price, and I will be able to add something
different. I'm definitely going to stick with the Debussy, Tchaikovsky,
and Copland discs however. Alright, that's basically it. I just wanted
to keep you gents updated. If you have any Requiem recommendations, feel
free to say; other suggestions, too, are welcome (the entire point of this
thread!).

Regards,
Derek
Derek Hollman
2004-08-01 10:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
1) I'm post my updated list of CDs I plan to buy
2) I wish to ask for a good first recording of Mozart's Requiem. I've
never hears Sussmayer's version, nor Levins or whoever else did it.
However, the non-Sussmayer versions sound intriguing. I might wait to
buy a copy of this work, however, and go to my library to see if I can
preview a few mentioned recordings.
heh, I guess I should read over what I write before I send it. Let me fix
those mistakes.

1) I wanted to post my updated list of CDs that I plan to buy

2) I wish to ask for a good introduction recording of Mozart's Requiem.
I've never heard Sussmayer's version, nor Levines or the others. However,
the non-Sussmayer versions sound intriguing. I might wait to buy a copy
of this work, however, and go to my library to preview any mentioned
recordings.

there, that sounds better.

Regards still,
Derek
Larry Rinkel
2004-08-01 14:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Post by Derek Hollman
1) I'm post my updated list of CDs I plan to buy
2) I wish to ask for a good first recording of Mozart's Requiem. I've
never hears Sussmayer's version, nor Levins or whoever else did it.
However, the non-Sussmayer versions sound intriguing. I might wait to
buy a copy of this work, however, and go to my library to see if I can
preview a few mentioned recordings.
heh, I guess I should read over what I write before I send it. Let me fix
those mistakes.
1) I wanted to post my updated list of CDs that I plan to buy
2) I wish to ask for a good introduction recording of Mozart's Requiem.
I've never heard Sussmayer's version, nor Levines or the others. However,
the non-Sussmayer versions sound intriguing. I might wait to buy a copy
of this work, however, and go to my library to preview any mentioned
recordings.
there, that sounds better.
Regards still,
Derek
If you are looking for a Mozart choral piece, I'd consider the Great Mass in
C minor, K. 427, before the Requiem. Although both works were unfinished,
imo the Mass is far more interesting. But you can get both as well as the
appealing Coronation Mass on a Phillips 2-fer conducted by Colin Davis.
Derek Hollman
2004-08-01 13:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Ok, let me edit my list one last time. I substitued the Karajan Mozart
Symphonies for a set done by Bernstein.

Trio - Mozart: The Late Symphonies, etc / Bernstein, Vienna
DG Trios

I lurked through some old posts and reviews, read up about the Mozart
Symphonies, and ultimately decided against Karajan. I'm actually between
Bernstein and Marriner now, but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to go with
Bernstein (better value too).

Regards,
Derek
Michael
2004-08-01 14:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
Ok, let me edit my list one last time. I substitued the Karajan Mozart
Symphonies for a set done by Bernstein.
Trio - Mozart: The Late Symphonies, etc / Bernstein, Vienna
DG Trios
I lurked through some old posts and reviews, read up about the Mozart
Symphonies, and ultimately decided against Karajan. I'm actually
between Bernstein and Marriner now, but I'm fairly sure that I'm going
to go with Bernstein (better value too).
Regards,
Derek
I haven't listened to a terrible lot of Mozart, I have a half dozen
symphonies and the Requiem and a couple other things. I'm not a
terribly big fan. But the Requiem is a very cool piece, and you
mentioned it in a prior post. I have one of the DG von Karajan
performances, I believe there were 3 (maybe i have the 1975 one?). The
vocals get a bit swamped by the orchestra, perhaps there are better
performances.

I suppose you can't go wrong with the late Symphonies either.

michael
jeffc
2004-08-01 15:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Hollman
2) I wish to ask for a good first recording of Mozart's Requiem.
I actually prefer his Great Mass, but I like both.
Post by Derek Hollman
*Mendelssohn: Italian Symphony, Violin Concerto, Octet, etc
DG Panorama
*Mozart: Symphonies nos 35-41 / Karajan, Berlin PO
DG Double
Nice additions. I like the Italian symphony, and I've heard the Octet is
very nice as well. The Mozart symphonies are required of course :-)
Larry Rinkel
2004-08-01 15:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffc
Post by Derek Hollman
2) I wish to ask for a good first recording of Mozart's Requiem.
I actually prefer his Great Mass, but I like both.
Post by Derek Hollman
*Mendelssohn: Italian Symphony, Violin Concerto, Octet, etc
DG Panorama
*Mozart: Symphonies nos 35-41 / Karajan, Berlin PO
DG Double
Nice additions. I like the Italian symphony, and I've heard the Octet is
very nice as well. The Mozart symphonies are required of course :-)
Ditto on the Great Mass as I posted just earlier. The Mendelssohn Octet is
certainly one of the most amazing things he ever wrote.
Alan Cooper
2004-08-01 16:13:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:32:16 GMT, "Larry Rinkel"
Post by Larry Rinkel
Ditto on the Great Mass as I posted just earlier. The Mendelssohn Octet is
certainly one of the most amazing things he ever wrote.
I'd call it one of the most amaziong things that *anyone* ever wrote,
and I might point out that it seems to be the only piece of chamber
music on our original poster's list. Might I suggest two more
recordings, perhaps Artur Rubinstein and the Guarneri Quartet
performing Piano Quintets by Dvorak and Brahms (RCA), and the Smetana
Quartet performing Mozart K465, Haydn opp. 33/3 and 64/5, and Schubert
Quartettsatz (Testament).

AC
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