Discussion:
Horowitz Plays Scarlatti
(too old to reply)
Casey
2003-11-04 22:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?


Casey
Bob Lombard
2003-11-04 22:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.

Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.

Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.

bl
Casey
2003-11-04 22:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Sound = completely adequate.
Not like some of Richter's work, huh?
Post by Bob Lombard
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Controversial, is he? Is he Gouldian? I read an interview with him
where he disdainfully dismissed other pianists as slow, so is he
fast on everything or just in some pieces?


Casey
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-04 23:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Post by Bob Lombard
Sound = completely adequate.
Not like some of Richter's work, huh?
Post by Bob Lombard
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Controversial, is he? Is he Gouldian? I read an interview with him
where he disdainfully dismissed other pianists as slow, so is he
fast on everything or just in some pieces?
Perhaps fast is not the right word
for it. Others may be faster. His
Scarlatti is brilliant.

Henk
Bob Lombard
2003-11-05 01:51:30 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:02:51 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by Casey
Post by Bob Lombard
Sound = completely adequate.
Not like some of Richter's work, huh?
Post by Bob Lombard
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Controversial, is he? Is he Gouldian? I read an interview with him
where he disdainfully dismissed other pianists as slow, so is he
fast on everything or just in some pieces?
Perhaps fast is not the right word
for it. Others may be faster. His
Scarlatti is brilliant.
Henk
Hell, *fast* has no relevance here. If it did have, I would point out
that Valenti is sometimes faster. On a very resonant harpsichord
recording. The music VH makes here works very well for me - and
doesn't work well for some other folks. Pay your money and take a
chance which way it'll flop for you - that's my advice.

bl
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 02:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:02:51 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by Casey
Post by Bob Lombard
Sound = completely adequate.
Not like some of Richter's work, huh?
Post by Bob Lombard
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Controversial, is he? Is he Gouldian? I read an interview with him
where he disdainfully dismissed other pianists as slow, so is he
fast on everything or just in some pieces?
Perhaps fast is not the right word
for it. Others may be faster. His
Scarlatti is brilliant.
Henk
Hell, *fast* has no relevance here. If it did have, I would point out
that Valenti is sometimes faster. On a very resonant harpsichord
recording. The music VH makes here works very well for me - and
doesn't work well for some other folks. Pay your money and take a
chance which way it'll flop for you - that's my advice.
bl
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.

Indeed, had it been possible, I would have constructed a complete
edition of Horowitz plays Scarlatti, which would have traced his
performances of these little gems, from 1928 (I think!) right until
just before his death. It would have been a fascinating compilation.
Unfortunately, egos and rights and other matters intervened to render
it an impossibility. However, anyone can create such a compilation on
his or her own; it might take a little time, but it is worth the
trouble. I did it, and the results were superb.

TD
Thomas Wood
2003-11-05 06:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the piano
even better. His best has been bested many times.

Tom Wood
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 07:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Wood
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind
that Horowitz is at his very best in his
performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec,
Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the piano even
better. His best has been bested many times.
?!? You must be joking. Pletnev's Scarlatti is
very good, and clearly influenced by Horowitz.
It is also the only one to come close. As to
Queffelec and Tipo, this must certainly be a
typo.



dk
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 09:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Wood
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the piano
even better. His best has been bested many times.
Tom Wood
Tipo's Scarlatti is great. However, I
don't see how it can be compared with
Horowitz'. They have both their very
own approach to this music.

Henk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 13:17:07 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:24:59 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by Thomas Wood
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the
piano
Post by Thomas Wood
even better. His best has been bested many times.
Tom Wood
Tipo's Scarlatti is great. However, I
don't see how it can be compared with
Horowitz'. They have both their very
own approach to this music.
Henk
Thank you, Henk.

Les deux sont bons, n'est-ce pas?

TD
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 13:16:07 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:53:19 GMT, "Thomas Wood"
Post by Thomas Wood
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the piano
even better. His best has been bested many times.
Which puts Horowitz in his place, doesn't it? If Scarlatti is his
best, and he is bested by Anne Queffelec - well, you said it, I didn't
and wouldn't - then I guess he is just second rate. NOT!

TD
Thomas Wood
2003-11-06 02:02:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:53:19 GMT, "Thomas Wood"
Post by Thomas Wood
Post by d***@yahoo.com
There is little question in my own mind that Horowitz is at his very
best in his performances of Scarlatti.
I agree. But some -- Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo -- play Scarlatti on the piano
even better. His best has been bested many times.
Which puts Horowitz in his place, doesn't it? If Scarlatti is his
best, and he is bested by Anne Queffelec - well, you said it, I didn't
and wouldn't - then I guess he is just second rate. NOT!
Yes, I enjoy her Scarlatti more than Horowitz's. Would I enjoy her Schumann
more? I doubt it. Do I think she is a greater artist in view of the
totality of their respective artistic accomplishments? No.

But I am saying: I acknowledge and admire Horowitz's reputation and
influence -- but I really don't LIKE how he played most things. This isn't
an algebraic equation; it's just personal preference.

Tom Wood
David Wake
2003-11-05 02:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.

David
Bob Lombard
2003-11-05 02:56:06 UTC
Permalink
On 04 Nov 2003 18:31:26 -0800, David Wake
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
Oh hell, David, I surrender. This ng is a perpetual Bonfire of the
Inanities. Bon Jour
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 09:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]

After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...

Henk
David Wake
2003-11-05 15:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????

I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.

I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.

If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.

If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.

David
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 15:36:25 UTC
Permalink
On 05 Nov 2003 07:16:55 -0800, David Wake
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
Seems to me, David, that your use of the word "accurate" is your
problem.

Horowitz less "accurate" than Pletnev?

Hmmmmm.

You would really have to support that statement with hard evidence,
otherwise it is just a vague unsubstantiated impression. You're
entitled to those, of course, but you shouldn't expect others to take
them seriously, particularly when you are dealing with one of the most
brilliant exponents of the keyboard the 20th Century has seen.

TD
Peter Lemken
2003-11-05 15:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On 05 Nov 2003 07:16:55 -0800, David Wake
Post by David Wake
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
Seems to me, David, that your use of the word "accurate" is your
problem.
Horowitz less "accurate" than Pletnev?
Hmmmmm.
You would really have to support that statement with hard evidence,
otherwise it is just a vague unsubstantiated impression. You're
entitled to those, of course, but you shouldn't expect others to take
them seriously, particularly when you are dealing with one of the most
brilliant exponents of the keyboard the 20th Century has seen.
Brilliant? Yes. Accurate? Less so.

Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
Mail an die im From: angegebene Adresse stellt eine Beauftragung zur
Überprüfung der Mailfunktion des Absenders dar und wird mit einer
Bearbeitungsgebühr von EUR 1000,- in Rechnung gestellt.
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 16:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lemken
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On 05 Nov 2003 07:16:55 -0800, David Wake
Post by David Wake
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
Seems to me, David, that your use of the word "accurate" is your
problem.
Horowitz less "accurate" than Pletnev?
Hmmmmm.
You would really have to support that statement with hard evidence,
otherwise it is just a vague unsubstantiated impression. You're
entitled to those, of course, but you shouldn't expect others to take
them seriously, particularly when you are dealing with one of the most
brilliant exponents of the keyboard the 20th Century has seen.
Brilliant? Yes. Accurate? Less so.
You're not speaking of thermometers -- or are you? ;-)


dk
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 16:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
You would really have to support
that statement with hard evidence,
Deacon,


R.m.c.r. is not a court of law.

Time to lighten up-- or take
your hard evidence elsewhere.



dk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 17:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by d***@yahoo.com
You would really have to support
that statement with hard evidence,
Deacon,
R.m.c.r. is not a court of law.
Time to lighten up-- or take
your hard evidence elsewhere.
Nobody ever said it were. Otherwise you would be in the docket, facing
some rather serious charges.

Of course the kind of accurate, inaccurate comment is right up your
alley.

Throw the mud and let it stick.

Very sleazy.

TD
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 18:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?

Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.

However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
solution of the problem:

"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"

But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.

Henk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 19:00:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:40:32 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Ah! The holy Grail!

Truth.

Now perhaps you'd oblige us with an explanation of that, Henk.

In 10 words or less, if you don't mind.

TD
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 20:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:40:32 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Ah! The holy Grail!
Truth.
Now perhaps you'd oblige us with an explanation of that, Henk.
In 10 words or less, if you don't mind.
TD
<g>

I can do it in one: revelation.

Art reveals. Performing art reveals
what is performed.

A performance may be unfaithful to
the text, incomplete and sloppy and
still be more revelatory than a
correct performance.

Henk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 20:39:45 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:36:49 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:40:32 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Ah! The holy Grail!
Truth.
Now perhaps you'd oblige us with an explanation of that, Henk.
In 10 words or less, if you don't mind.
TD
<g>
I can do it in one: revelation.
Art reveals. Performing art reveals
what is performed.
A performance may be unfaithful to
the text, incomplete and sloppy and
still be more revelatory than a
correct performance.
You sound like Oral Roberts.

Art as revelation.


TD
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 22:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
You sound like Oral Roberts.
Art as revelation.
TD
Perhaps revelation still has this religious
connotation in the USA.

In a secularized world only the secular can
be revealed.

Henk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 23:11:45 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:46:36 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by d***@yahoo.com
You sound like Oral Roberts.
Art as revelation.
TD
Perhaps revelation still has this religious
connotation in the USA.
In a secularized world only the secular can
be revealed.
Secular world?

You mean a world without God?

Isn't that a world without meaning?

Infidel!

TD
Mazzolata
2003-11-06 00:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Secular world?
You mean a world without God?
Isn't that a world without meaning?
Just the opposite, actually.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------

Got to get behind the mule
in the morning and plow
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-06 01:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mazzolata
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Secular world?
You mean a world without God?
Isn't that a world without meaning?
Just the opposite, actually.
God has warned me against people like you.

Get thee away from me, Satan!

TD
Dan Koren
2003-11-06 04:05:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by d***@yahoo.com
You sound like Oral Roberts.
Art as revelation.
Perhaps revelation still has this religious
connotation in the USA.
In a secularized world only the secular can
be revealed.
That depends entirely on
what one chooses to reveal.



dk
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 22:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:40:32 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Ah! The holy Grail!
Truth.
Now perhaps you'd oblige us with an explanation of that, Henk.
In 10 words or less, if you don't mind.
TD
<g>
I can do it in one: revelation.
Art reveals. Performing art reveals
what is performed.
What does Mme Strudel-Haebler reveal?
Post by David Wake
A performance may be unfaithful to
the text, incomplete and sloppy and
still be more revelatory than a
correct performance.
Now you can't be serious! What about
the urtext? What about the composers'
intent? What about reviewers? What
about performing tradition?

And what about the Deacon?



dk
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 23:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
A performance may be unfaithful to
the text, incomplete and sloppy and
still be more revelatory than a
correct performance.
Now you can't be serious! What about
the urtext?
Urtexts are what the Germans used to call a
"Stand und Aufgabe" (status and mission) of
the science they practice.
Post by Dan Koren
What about the composers' intent?
Who knows?
Post by Dan Koren
What about reviewers?
LOL!!
Post by Dan Koren
What about performing tradition?
Of what school? Are there still schools?
Post by Dan Koren
And what about the Deacon?
He is to be taken seriously, of course.

Henk
David Wake
2003-11-05 20:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Try reading what I actually wrote for a change.

Where did I say anything about correctness?

I used the words "accurate" and "pristine" to describe my impression
of Pletnev in the Scarlatti sonatas, and "sloppy" (COMPARATIVELY
speaking) to describe of Horowitz in those sonatas.

I nowhere implied that these are the only criteria that distinguish
Pletnev from Horowitz, or that these are the only criteria that matter.

If you wish to describe the playing of either pianist using these or
any other criteria, or even make a A/B/C comparison please go ahead.
I'd be delighted.

David
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 21:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by David Wake
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
????
I never said that Pletnev's Scarlatti was "greater" than that of
Horowitz.
I merely drew RMCRers' attention to my perception that, if one does an
A/B comparison of the sonatas recorded by both Pletnev and Horowitz,
Pletnev sounds, at least to my ears, more accurate and pristine.
If you do such a comparison and draw different conclusions, or have
anything else of substance to add, please go ahead and do so.
If, on the other hand, you have no substantive contribution to make on
the subject of the comparative virtues of recordings Scarlatti's
sonatas, perhaps you could keep your thoughts to yourself.
David
Does the world of classical music really
consist of making A/B comparisons?
Perhaps you should become creative and
try to make an A/B/C comparison for a
change.
However, that is not without risks.
Comparing A/B/C may widen your horizon
so much that you might have to find a
"tidy/sloppy/... (what else)?"
But keep on drawing RMCRers' attention
to whatever you see fit. Perhaps one
day you'll come up with a new criterion
that is not based on an attempt to
describe art in terms of correctness
but of truth.
Try reading what I actually wrote for a change.
Where did I say anything about correctness?
I used the words "accurate" and "pristine" to describe my impression
of Pletnev in the Scarlatti sonatas, and "sloppy" (COMPARATIVELY
speaking) to describe of Horowitz in those sonatas.
I nowhere implied that these are the only criteria that distinguish
Pletnev from Horowitz, or that these are the only criteria that matter.
If you wish to describe the playing of either pianist using these or
any other criteria, or even make a A/B/C comparison please go ahead.
I'd be delighted.
David
Where did I say that I wished to describe
etc.?

Are these the first - stumbling - steps
out of the confines of the accurate and
pristine?

I have stopped making comparisons since
I have noticed that my like or dislike
of an interpretation is not based on
details - although there may be details
I like or dislike.

Probably I already once told the story
about the Dutch pianist George van
Renesse. He had a weekly program on the
radio comparing interpretations. One
day he compared interpretations of a
Waltz by Chopin, including his own
recording. After a very learned
discussion with the use of metronome
and stopwatch he came finally to the
conclusion that his interpretation was
the most accurate and pristine one.

Needless to say that this may have
been a correct conclusion, but it
certainly was also an untrue one in
the sense that Van Renesse's
interpretation had left Chopin's music
completely in the dark.

Henk
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 15:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?



dk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 15:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
dk
You have a nack for always coming up with the wrong answer.

Tell me, did you take your degree in that or is it simply a talent you
have acquired over the years?

TD
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 17:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received just
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages. Probably
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.

For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...

Henk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 18:56:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:15:06 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
Henk
While I believe you do her an injustice, I am glad you find her a
satisfying musician.

TD
Henk van Tuijl
2003-11-05 20:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:15:06 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
Henk
While I believe you do her an injustice, I am glad you find her a
satisfying musician.
TD
In what way do I do her an injustice?

Although I am personally not a great
fan, those around me in the fifties
went to every concert and recital she
gave in the Netherlands.

Not so long ago I did listen to her
Mozart and Bach again. Most of these
CD's are based on recordings made in
the sixties or even later.

Nevertheless, these relatively late
CD's still did give me an idea why
the concerts of a young Haebler had
been a revelation for those of us
who had been on a diet of Bach- and
Mozart-fearing interpreters.

Haebler must have secularized the
interpretation of Bach's and
Mozart's music without being an
iconoclast like Gould.

Of course, this doesn't mean that I
would have given Haebler a place in
the GPE ... But then, we all have
our own GPE (and even that one
keeps changing).

Henk
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 22:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:15:06 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
Henk
While I believe you do her an injustice, I am glad you find her a
satisfying musician.
TD
In what way do I do her an injustice?
Although I am personally not a great
fan, those around me in the fifties
went to every concert and recital she
gave in the Netherlands.
Not so long ago I did listen to her
Mozart and Bach again. Most of these
CD's are based on recordings made in
the sixties or even later.
Nevertheless, these relatively late
CD's still did give me an idea why
the concerts of a young Haebler had
been a revelation for those of us
who had been on a diet of Bach- and
Mozart-fearing interpreters.
Haebler must have secularized the
interpretation of Bach's and
Mozart's music without being an
iconoclast like Gould.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I
would have given Haebler a place in
the GPE ... But then, we all have
our own GPE (and even that one
keeps changing).
The only justice for Mme Habler would
be a life sentence to the kitchen.



dk
d***@yahoo.com
2003-11-05 22:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:15:06 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that
the
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has
received
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in
the
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
Henk
While I believe you do her an injustice, I am glad you find her a
satisfying musician.
TD
In what way do I do her an injustice?
Although I am personally not a great
fan, those around me in the fifties
went to every concert and recital she
gave in the Netherlands.
Not so long ago I did listen to her
Mozart and Bach again. Most of these
CD's are based on recordings made in
the sixties or even later.
Nevertheless, these relatively late
CD's still did give me an idea why
the concerts of a young Haebler had
been a revelation for those of us
who had been on a diet of Bach- and
Mozart-fearing interpreters.
Haebler must have secularized the
interpretation of Bach's and
Mozart's music without being an
iconoclast like Gould.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I
would have given Haebler a place in
the GPE ... But then, we all have
our own GPE (and even that one
keeps changing).
The only justice for Mme Habler would
be a life sentence to the kitchen.
I do hope that the few women who would put up with your running
babbling will notice the misogyist nature of this comment.

Keep the little woman chained to the kitchen stove.

You must have had some mother, presuming you knew who she was, that
is.

TD
Dan Koren
2003-11-06 04:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:15:06 +0100, "Henk van Tuijl"
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:12:51 GMT, "Casey"
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that
the
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Casey
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has
received
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in
the
Post by David Wake
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
Henk
While I believe you do her an injustice, I am glad you find her a
satisfying musician.
TD
In what way do I do her an injustice?
Although I am personally not a great
fan, those around me in the fifties
went to every concert and recital she
gave in the Netherlands.
Not so long ago I did listen to her
Mozart and Bach again. Most of these
CD's are based on recordings made in
the sixties or even later.
Nevertheless, these relatively late
CD's still did give me an idea why
the concerts of a young Haebler had
been a revelation for those of us
who had been on a diet of Bach- and
Mozart-fearing interpreters.
Haebler must have secularized the
interpretation of Bach's and
Mozart's music without being an
iconoclast like Gould.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I
would have given Haebler a place in
the GPE ... But then, we all have
our own GPE (and even that one
keeps changing).
The only justice for Mme Haebler would
be a life sentence to the kitchen.
I do hope that the few women who would put
up with your running babbling will notice
the misogynist nature of this comment.
Keep the little woman chained to the kitchen
stove.
Don't outsmart yourself trying to change the
subject and running for cover under the skirts
of the feminists.

My statement was about Mme Haebler and her
Strudel Mozart, not about women pianists in
general. A life sentence in the kitchen is
precisely what Mme Haebler deserves -- no
more and no less.

Lest anyone should think I have anything
against women, the sentences I hand out
to the men who cross my pianistic tastes
are much harsher ;-)



dk
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 19:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Sound = completely adequate.
Playing - assuming you mean interpretation = unique, has received
just
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
about every superlatives re quality, and many of the
anti-superlatives, that exist in the Aryan-related languages.
Probably
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Henk van Tuijl
Post by David Wake
Post by Bob Lombard
more superlatives in Japanese than in Tagalog.
Whether you like it or hate it, your collection is unforgivably
incomplete without it.
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with Pletnev
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
[Sigh]
After strict obedience to the Urtext and
absolute completeness, we have now utter
tidiness as THE criterion for great art
...
And how else did you think Mme Strudel-
Haebler made it into the great box ?!?
Well, she is faithful to the Urtext, she
never skips a bar and she has a very tidy
pianism.
For some of us the nec plus ultra of
great art ...
And above everything else, she bakes
great strudel. Which is precisely why
the Deacon likes her so much.



dk
arri bachrach
2003-11-06 00:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wake
Post by David Wake
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
happen to agree.. it is far from meticulous IMO

AB
Peter Lemken
2003-11-06 07:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by arri bachrach
Post by David Wake
Post by David Wake
Guess I'm in the minority here, but some of Horowitz's work in the
faster sonatas sounds a little sloppy to me. Do and A/B with
Pletnev
Post by David Wake
on Virgin and see what you think.
David
happen to agree.. it is far from meticulous IMO
Or accurate ;-)

Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
Mail an die im From: angegebene Adresse stellt eine Beauftragung zur
Überprüfung der Mailfunktion des Absenders dar und wird mit einer
Bearbeitungsgebühr von EUR 1000,- in Rechnung gestellt.
Steve Molino
2003-11-04 23:06:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Excellent, and the sound of the new remastering is a significant improvement
over the last. The tone is far less "pingy" than before. A favorite disc.
Also check out his Schumann Kreisleriana disc.
Van Eyes
2003-11-05 00:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Molino
Excellent, and the sound of the new remastering is a significant improvement
over the last. The tone is far less "pingy" than before. A favorite disc.
The 1993 remastering is pretty good. Is there a newer?
Post by Steve Molino
Also check out his Schumann Kreisleriana disc.
The 1987 remastering is not very good. Is there a newer?


Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Steve Molino
2003-11-05 01:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Van Eyes
Post by Steve Molino
Excellent, and the sound of the new remastering is a significant improvement
over the last. The tone is far less "pingy" than before. A favorite disc.
The 1993 remastering is pretty good. Is there a newer?
Yes.
Post by Van Eyes
Post by Steve Molino
Also check out his Schumann Kreisleriana disc.
The 1987 remastering is not very good. Is there a newer?
There have been a couple remasterings since then. First was the big Sony
box (and the individual volumes) which was an improvement. Now the
Centennial edition (or whatever they are calling it). The latest offers the
smoothest and cleanest sound to my ears.
Van Eyes
2003-11-11 19:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Molino
Post by Van Eyes
Post by Steve Molino
Excellent, and the sound of the new remastering is a significant
improvement
Post by Van Eyes
Post by Steve Molino
over the last. The tone is far less "pingy" than before. A favorite
disc.
Post by Van Eyes
The 1993 remastering is pretty good. Is there a newer?
Yes.
Post by Van Eyes
Post by Steve Molino
Also check out his Schumann Kreisleriana disc.
The 1987 remastering is not very good. Is there a newer?
....The latest offers the
smoothest and cleanest sound to my ears.
I have purchased Horowitz Plays Scarlatti - Masterworks Expanded
Edition, and find no difference for Tracks 1 to 18, when comparing it to
Masterworks Vol II, 1993 issue. An inspection of the newer issue's notes
reveals that both DSD and SBM were used. I suggest only Tracks 19 and 20
were DSD'd--I have nothing to compare for those--the sound's perfectly
acceptable, as it is for the repeated SBM (1993, 2003). They blend
fine...there's no jump from good to great sound. No mention of SBM on
the outer covers...just inside.
That said, the price was budget, so I'm gladta have the two extra
Sonatas.
I'll likely give the Schumann a shot. That wasn't 20-Bit SBM'd like the
1993 Scarlatti.


Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Dan Koren
2003-11-05 05:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
a) recording quality has not in
general improved since the 60's.

b) this is mandatory listening.



dk
MIFrost
2003-11-05 12:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Is this the same as the Vol II of The Complete Masterworks Recordings?

MIFrost
Post by Casey
Sony has a budget-priced CD "Horowitz Plays Scarlatti" that
seems to be have been released in 2003. I think I read that the
recordings were made in the 1960s. How is the sound? How
is the playing?
Casey
Steve Molino
2003-11-05 13:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by MIFrost
Is this the same as the Vol II of The Complete Masterworks Recordings?
No. It is part of the new batch of releases to celebrate his the Horowitz
centennial. Smoother sound on the few that I have picked up and compared to
the big box, good as that was.
MIFrost
2003-11-05 17:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Molino
Post by MIFrost
Is this the same as the Vol II of The Complete Masterworks Recordings?
No. It is part of the new batch of releases to celebrate his the Horowitz
centennial. Smoother sound on the few that I have picked up and compared to
the big box, good as that was.
Sorry. What I meant was, are these the same performances, just
repackaged and remastered, or are they different recordings
altogether?

TIA

MIFrost
Steve Molino
2003-11-05 18:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by MIFrost
Post by Steve Molino
Post by MIFrost
Is this the same as the Vol II of The Complete Masterworks Recordings?
No. It is part of the new batch of releases to celebrate his the Horowitz
centennial. Smoother sound on the few that I have picked up and compared to
the big box, good as that was.
Sorry. What I meant was, are these the same performances, just
repackaged and remastered, or are they different recordings
altogether?
For most, the former. For some, such as the Carnegie Hall recital, they
actually went back to the original, unedited masters rather than the patched
recordings that Horowitz authorized.
john grant
2003-11-06 03:17:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Post by MIFrost
Post by Steve Molino
Post by MIFrost
Is this the same as the Vol II of The Complete Masterworks Recordings?
No. It is part of the new batch of releases to celebrate his the
Horowitz
Post by MIFrost
Post by Steve Molino
centennial. Smoother sound on the few that I have picked up and
compared to
Post by MIFrost
Post by Steve Molino
the big box, good as that was.
Sorry. What I meant was, are these the same performances, just
repackaged and remastered, or are they different recordings
altogether?
For most, the former. For some, such as the Carnegie Hall recital, they
actually went back to the original, unedited masters rather than the patched
recordings that Horowitz authorized.
Didn't really feel up to wading through the miles of thread above. Is
there an answer to the question: How many Sonatas on how many CDs for how
much money? And where to buy at what price? Of course I want to buy it,
assuming I don't already own it in bits and pieces.

Jg
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/42/john_lewis_grant.html
XYZ XYZ
2003-11-06 12:42:21 UTC
Permalink
I don't know about the previous incarnations of the Scarlatti Sonatas.
The new incarnation is quite generously filled. There're probably
about 20 sonatas (I left the disc at home). Since I've very little
Horowitz Scarlatti in my collecton there's hardly any duplication (I've
the 1980s recital at the Met on tape, and I've a recording where he
plays Haydn, Clementi and Beethoven Op. 101 and two Scarlatti sonatas,
which were recorded live at Brooklyn College and, I believe, duplicated
on the new disc).

J&R in NYC sells this for $6.99, so I bought it immediately, along with
the compilation of Scriabin.
Post by john grant
Didn't really feel up to wading through the miles of thread above. Is
there an answer to the question: How many Sonatas on how many CDs for how
much money? And where to buy at what price? Of course I want to buy it,
assuming I don't already own it in bits and pieces.
Jg
john grant
2003-11-06 18:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by XYZ XYZ
I don't know about the previous incarnations of the Scarlatti Sonatas.
The new incarnation is quite generously filled. There're probably
about 20 sonatas (I left the disc at home). Since I've very little
Horowitz Scarlatti in my collecton there's hardly any duplication (I've
the 1980s recital at the Met on tape, and I've a recording where he
plays Haydn, Clementi and Beethoven Op. 101 and two Scarlatti sonatas,
which were recorded live at Brooklyn College and, I believe, duplicated
on the new disc).
J&R in NYC sells this for $6.99, so I bought it immediately, along with
the compilation of Scriabin.
Post by john grant
Didn't really feel up to wading through the miles of thread above. Is
there an answer to the question: How many Sonatas on how many CDs for how
much money? And where to buy at what price? Of course I want to buy it,
assuming I don't already own it in bits and pieces.
Jg
Many thanks,

JG
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/42/john_lewis_grant.html
Van Eyes
2003-11-07 00:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by john grant
Post by XYZ XYZ
I don't know about the previous incarnations of the Scarlatti Sonatas.
The new incarnation is quite generously filled. There're probably
about 20 sonatas (I left the disc at home).
Post by john grant
Didn't really feel up to wading through the miles of thread above. Is
there an answer to the question: How many Sonatas on how many CDs for
how
Post by XYZ XYZ
Post by john grant
much money? And where to buy at what price? Of course I want to buy
it,
Post by XYZ XYZ
Post by john grant
assuming I don't already own it in bits and pieces.
Many thanks,
1994 Scarlatti release--

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1090664

2003 Scarlatti Expanded (two additional Sonatas)--

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=2896928



Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
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