Discussion:
Danil Shafran - Bach: Cello Suites
(too old to reply)
O***@aol.com
2020-06-26 09:43:55 UTC
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On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
James Goodzeit
2020-06-26 14:56:33 UTC
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Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
wkasimer
2020-06-26 15:03:31 UTC
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Post by James Goodzeit
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
I have it complete on Melodiya. And I agree with the above. It's not merely unidiomatic - it's awful.
Frank Berger
2020-06-26 15:28:50 UTC
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Post by James Goodzeit
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
I believe they are the same recordings. I wonder way
Brilliant didn't include 1 and 6. Also Brilliant got the
recording dates wrong on some of them, I think.
Steve Emerson
2020-06-26 16:49:38 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
I believe they are the same recordings. I wonder way
Brilliant didn't include 1 and 6. Also Brilliant got the
recording dates wrong on some of them, I think.
I forget the details, but Yedang's release was also limited to 2-5.

SE.
Frank Berger
2020-06-26 16:57:57 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Frank Berger
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
I believe they are the same recordings. I wonder way
Brilliant didn't include 1 and 6. Also Brilliant got the
recording dates wrong on some of them, I think.
I forget the details, but Yedang's release was also limited to 2-5.
SE.
Same mistaken dates too. Also released on Russia
Revelation. I forget where I read the dates were wrong on
some of them.
AB
2020-06-27 01:15:29 UTC
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Post by James Goodzeit
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
I have the Daniil Shafran Edition on Brilliant, so I don't know if this is the same recording, and it is missing ##1 and 6. I would say that his vibrato is hideous, being so wide it sounds like every note is trilled.
the vibrato is too intense, too fast,not too wide.. but the biggest problem with his playing IMO is his mannered approach

AB
Néstor Castiglione
2020-06-27 02:30:48 UTC
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I'll have to disagree with the majority here: Shafran's Bach suites are marvelous. His readings of the Cello Suites are rich-toned, opulently phrased, and emphatically expressive. In many respects it is almost like hearing Bach as Brahms. That in and of itself is a revealing display of how JSB exerted a strong fascination on the German Romantics. More importantly Shafran's performance reminds you that once upon a time this music was regarded as a living lingua franca, not as ossified rituals codified in a dead language. It's the kind of recording that may send HIP adherents into conniptions. No problems for me as I'm not a fan of the HIP movement, but if you are you may want to keep your nitroglycerin handy.

The Melodiya reissue is the way to go. Avoid, avoid, for the love of all creatures great and small avoid the Doremi. Like virtually everything else they've reissued their transfers of the Shafran Bach are execrable.
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary Treasures. Anyone have it? How is. It?
m***@gmail.com
2020-06-27 03:35:42 UTC
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Post by Néstor Castiglione
I'll have to disagree with the majority here: Shafran's Bach suites are marvelous. His readings of the Cello Suites are rich-toned, opulently phrased, and emphatically expressive. In many respects it is almost like hearing Bach as Brahms. That in and of itself is a revealing display of how JSB exerted a strong fascination on the German Romantics. More importantly Shafran's performance reminds you that once upon a time this music was regarded as a living lingua franca, not as ossified rituals codified in a dead language. It's the kind of recording that may send HIP adherents into conniptions. No problems for me as I'm not a fan of the HIP movement, but if you are you may want to keep your nitroglycerin handy.
I think Nestor has got it just right and I'm for the most part an HIP fan. Shafran's Bach is magnificent, rich and emotionally direct. He speaks directly to your heart and that's my kind of music making.

The Brilliant box also has his wonderful recording of the Schostakovich Cello Sonata with Dmitri himself at the piano. Simply marvelous!
Mandryka
2020-06-27 10:19:02 UTC
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I just listened to the first movement of the 5th suite. The vibrato is wide but controlled and IMO not a great problem. With all due respect to James Goodzeit, it does NOT sound like "like every note is trilled"

He was entertaining in the prelude, but all these romantic throwbacks are fun in slow portentous music, they are probably all slow portentous people.

The problem is in the fugue. Nestor says that it's "emphatically expressive" and m41 says that it's "emotionally direct. He speaks directly to your heart . . ." Well the fugue just sounded incoherent, fussy and cold.

I bet he's listenable in the sarabandes, maybe the allemandes, and rubbish in the gigues and minuettos. They're all the same.
O***@aol.com
2020-07-15 08:30:57 UTC
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Maurice Gendron’s 1964 Philips set is released to-day, July 15, as part of Tower Japan’s 24th installment of the ‘Vintage SA-CD Collection’ series. Recorded in France, February 8-12, 1964. These will be hybrid discs, btw, and spread across 2 SACDs.

Posting this news in this thread as it is of similar era to Shafran’s. Gendron was a little speed demon, wasn’t he? With a beautiful tone, and a resonant, richly detailed recording to pair it. Vintage Philips.

“DSD Remastered by Classic Sound, 5/2020 at the British Classic Sound, directly from the home country of the original analog master tape performs a DSD conversion and mastering, produced a DSD master for the SA-CD layer. For the CD layer, PCM conversion from this DSD master to 44.1kHz/16bit is performed to produce a CD master.”

https://tower.jp/article/feature_item/2020/06/17/1110?kid=piu200715ppcl0103&_adp_c=wa&_adp_e=c&_adp_u=a&_adp_p_md=1585&_adp_p_cp=20405&_adp_p_agr=piu200715ppcl01&_adp_p_ad=3&spMailingID=3562889&spUserID=MjA0MjU1NTEzNTI1S0&spJobID=1280306926&spReportId=MTI4MDMwNjkyNgS2
dk
2020-07-19 11:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary
Treasures. Anyone have it? How is it?
I cannot speak about the recordings,
however having heard Shafran perform
the Bach Cello Suites live I cannot
imagine any reason to skip this CD
unless it is totally unlistenable.

Shafran's way with Bach is unique
and riveting -- as with everything
else he played -- even if not likely
to be everyone's cup of tea.

For context, besides Shafran I
heard the following cellists
live in the Bach Suites:

Pablo Casals
Gaspar Cassado
Paul Tortelier
Pierre Fournier
Maurice Gendron
Andre Navarra
Rostropovich
Janos Starker
Oy-Oy Ma

From this list I liked Shafran,
Tortelier and Cassado the best.
I did not like Casals or Starker,
and I was lukewarm about Slava.

dk
Mandryka
2020-07-19 12:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary
Treasures. Anyone have it? How is it?
I cannot speak about the recordings,
however having heard Shafran perform
the Bach Cello Suites live I cannot
imagine any reason to skip this CD
unless it is totally unlistenable.
Shafran's way with Bach is unique
and riveting -- as with everything
else he played -- even if not likely
to be everyone's cup of tea.
For context, besides Shafran I
heard the following cellists
Pablo Casals
Gaspar Cassado
Paul Tortelier
Pierre Fournier
Maurice Gendron
Andre Navarra
Rostropovich
Janos Starker
Oy-Oy Ma
From this list I liked Shafran,
Tortelier and Cassado the best.
I did not like Casals or Starker,
and I was lukewarm about Slava.
dk
Gaspar Cassado is a new name for me, I shall explore.
dk
2020-07-20 06:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mandryka
Post by dk
Post by O***@aol.com
On Melodiya and also DOREMI Legendary
Treasures. Anyone have it? How is it?
I cannot speak about the recordings,
however having heard Shafran perform
the Bach Cello Suites live I cannot
imagine any reason to skip this CD
unless it is totally unlistenable.
Shafran's way with Bach is unique
and riveting -- as with everything
else he played -- even if not likely
to be everyone's cup of tea.
For context, besides Shafran I
heard the following cellists
Pablo Casals
Gaspar Cassado
Paul Tortelier
Pierre Fournier
Maurice Gendron
Andre Navarra
Rostropovich
Janos Starker
Oy-Oy Ma
From this list I liked Shafran,
Tortelier and Cassado the best.
I did not like Casals or Starker,
and I was lukewarm about Slava.
Gaspar Cassado is a new name for me, I shall explore.
Gaspar Cassado was the greatest Spanish cellist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Cassad%C3%B3

dk
wkasimer
2020-07-20 14:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mandryka
Gaspar Cassado is a new name for me, I shall explore.
Here's a (decidedly minority) opinion that I wrote on Amazon a few years ago:

"I'm not sure why this recording receives 5-star reviews, except for nostalgic reasons. In 1957, there were few recordings of these works - I believe Casals and possibly Starker were the only other recorded options - so at that time, this was a better choice than it is now, when virtually every cellist of any fame has recorded them.

"Cassado's playing is competent, but much of the music is played in a plodding, metronomic manner with little rubato and very little attempt to vary phrasing enough to hold interest. Cassado's tone is, by modern standards, pretty ordinary. The recording, by 1957 standards, is adequate.

"I suppose that this set might be suitable for someone studying these works, seeking a recording that plays the notes with a minimum of interpretation. But I suspect that most people want more than that, and there are limitless other recordings that provide a great deal more in terms of interpretation, cello tone, and sonics."

YMMV.
dk
2020-07-21 19:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by wkasimer
Post by Mandryka
Gaspar Cassado is a new name for me, I shall explore.
"I'm not sure why this recording receives 5-star reviews, except for nostalgic reasons. In 1957, there were few recordings of these works - I believe Casals and possibly Starker were the only other recorded options - so at that time, this was a better choice than it is now, when virtually every cellist of any fame has recorded them.
"Cassado's playing is competent, but much of the music is played in a plodding, metronomic manner with little rubato and very little attempt to vary phrasing enough to hold interest. Cassado's tone is, by modern standards, pretty ordinary. The recording, by 1957 standards, is adequate.
"I suppose that this set might be suitable for someone studying these works, seeking a recording that plays the notes with a minimum of interpretation. But I suspect that most people want more than that, and there are limitless other recordings that provide a great deal more in terms of interpretation, cello tone, and sonics."
YMMV.
You wrote a record review while I
heard him live. Not the same thing.
Many soloists warm up to perform
differently in front of a live
audience.

Incidentally, what you wrote about
Cassado fits Casals a lot better.

dk

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