Discussion:
Mahler Symphony no.1 - best version?
Add Reply
b***@gmail.com
2006-10-20 02:30:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
j***@aol.com
2006-10-20 02:45:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I think there is no Georg Solti/CSO Mahler 1 from 1972 or 1971. If you
mean the earlier recording, it is from 1964 with the LSO. If you mean
the later recording it is with the CSO (digital from 1983 and not all
that well recorded). If you mean the live one on Orfeo (Vienna Phil,
1964), that's another matter altogether--I haven't heard it.

You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a lot
of grit and power and sounds better than the Solti recordings. So does
the earlier Giulini on EMI, but then, you might also try a gizzilion
others that are so great that ultimately there is no "best"...not even
close. Like either Kubelik with Bavarian Radio Symphony, or
Sinopoli/Philharmonia, or Bernstein (take your pick) or ...

Recently on of the live Jansons/Concertgebouw broadcasts has been a
favorite of mine and I hope they release that on their own label.

--Jeff
Bob Lombard
2006-10-20 03:03:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I think there is no Georg Solti/CSO Mahler 1 from 1972 or 1971. If you
mean the earlier recording, it is from 1964 with the LSO. If you mean
the later recording it is with the CSO (digital from 1983 and not all
that well recorded). If you mean the live one on Orfeo (Vienna Phil,
1964), that's another matter altogether--I haven't heard it.
You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a lot
of grit and power and sounds better than the Solti recordings. So does
the earlier Giulini on EMI, but then, you might also try a gizzilion
others that are so great that ultimately there is no "best"...not even
close. Like either Kubelik with Bavarian Radio Symphony, or
Sinopoli/Philharmonia, or Bernstein (take your pick) or ...
Recently on of the live Jansons/Concertgebouw broadcasts has been a
favorite of mine and I hope they release that on their own label.
--Jeff
I first heard the Kubelik many years ago over WQXR at about 3 in the
morning, when a toothache was keeping me awake. Thought it was great
then and still do (not the toothache, the recording).

bl
Michael Schaffer
2006-10-20 03:11:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I think there is no Georg Solti/CSO Mahler 1 from 1972 or 1971. If you
mean the earlier recording, it is from 1964 with the LSO. If you mean
the later recording it is with the CSO (digital from 1983 and not all
that well recorded). If you mean the live one on Orfeo (Vienna Phil,
1964), that's another matter altogether--I haven't heard it.
You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a lot
of grit and power and sounds better than the Solti recordings. So does
the earlier Giulini on EMI, but then, you might also try a gizzilion
others that are so great that ultimately there is no "best"...not even
close. Like either Kubelik with Bavarian Radio Symphony, or
Sinopoli/Philharmonia, or Bernstein (take your pick) or ...
Recently on of the live Jansons/Concertgebouw broadcasts has been a
favorite of mine and I hope they release that on their own label.
--JeffI first heard the Kubelik many years ago over WQXR at about 3 in the
morning, when a toothache was keeping me awake. Thought it was great
then and still do (not the toothache, the recording).
bl
I don't really have a favorite for that. I think it is a fairly simply
structured piece which can be easily pulled off effectively. But then
there are few versions which really stand out.

If I had to name *one*, I would probably say Bernstein with the
Concertgebouworkest (DG). I find that one both very athmospheric and
exciting.

I have the Boulez/CSO one but haven't listened to it yet. Any comments
before I open it? I am kind of on a Mahler 1 diet right now since I
have heard and played the piece way too often, so it might be a while
before I tear off the shrinkwrap.
Richard Loeb
2006-10-20 03:14:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I think there is no Georg Solti/CSO Mahler 1 from 1972 or 1971. If you
mean the earlier recording, it is from 1964 with the LSO. If you mean
the later recording it is with the CSO (digital from 1983 and not all
that well recorded). If you mean the live one on Orfeo (Vienna Phil,
1964), that's another matter altogether--I haven't heard it.
You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a lot
of grit and power and sounds better than the Solti recordings. So does
the earlier Giulini on EMI, but then, you might also try a gizzilion
others that are so great that ultimately there is no "best"...not even
close. Like either Kubelik with Bavarian Radio Symphony, or
Sinopoli/Philharmonia, or Bernstein (take your pick) or ...
Recently on of the live Jansons/Concertgebouw broadcasts has been a
favorite of mine and I hope they release that on their own label.
--Jeff
I first heard the Kubelik many years ago over WQXR at about 3 in the
morning, when a toothache was keeping me awake. Thought it was great then
and still do (not the toothache, the recording).
bl I really like the Kubelik with a respectful nod tothe venerable old
Horenstein from the early 50s Richard
TareeDawg
2006-10-20 03:49:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I think there is no Georg Solti/CSO Mahler 1 from 1972 or 1971. If you
mean the earlier recording, it is from 1964 with the LSO. If you mean
the later recording it is with the CSO (digital from 1983 and not all
that well recorded). If you mean the live one on Orfeo (Vienna Phil,
1964), that's another matter altogether--I haven't heard it.
You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a lot
of grit and power and sounds better than the Solti recordings. So does
the earlier Giulini on EMI, but then, you might also try a gizzilion
others that are so great that ultimately there is no "best"...not even
close. Like either Kubelik with Bavarian Radio Symphony, or
Sinopoli/Philharmonia, or Bernstein (take your pick) or ...
.... or Walter on Sony. Still sounds good and is a wonderful performance.

Ray H
Taree, NSW
Heck51
2006-10-20 14:10:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
***@aol.com wrote:
<< You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a
lot of grit and power .
So does the earlier Giulini on EMI,>
I've not heard the Tennstedt, he's a conductor to whom I've had mixed
reactions...
live and recorded...
the Giulini/CSO is fabulous, overall my favorite M1.
Bob Harper
2006-10-20 23:47:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Heck51
<< You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a
lot of grit and power .
So does the earlier Giulini on EMI,>
I've not heard the Tennstedt, he's a conductor to whom I've had mixed
reactions...
live and recorded...
the Giulini/CSO is fabulous, overall my favorite M1.
The Tennstedt is very exciting; It's been my observation that he is one
of the conductors who shows the greatest difference between studio and
live, in favor of the latter. The LPO live Mahler 5th is another
example. I haven't heard the recently issued live Bruckner 4th with the
LPO, but hope to soon.

Bob Harper
Heck51
2006-10-21 02:24:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The Tennstedt is very exciting;>>
I'd like to hear it...

<<It's been my observation that he is one of the conductors who shows
the greatest difference between studio and live, in favor of the
latter. The LPO live Mahler 5th is another
example. >>

I've heard him live with LPO performing Mahler 5 in Boston Symphony
hall. OK, certainly not great, nowhere near the amazing Solti/CSO
version I heard in Carnegie, or the Abbado/LSO one in Boston...

also, I caught a video of his with LPO doing "Siegfried's Funeral
music" - yikes, what a rhythmic mess, all over the place - the 2 16th
note figure was never played the same by any section of the orchestra.

that said - his live Bruckner 7th with the CSO [archival release - CSO
in 20th Century] is one of the best I've ever heard...really
great...fabulous Adagio
Heck51
2006-10-20 14:20:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
***@aol.com wrote:
<< You might try for comparison the Tennstedt/CSO on EMI, which has a
lot of grit and power .
So does the earlier Giulini on EMI,>
I've not heard the Tennstedt, he's a conductor to whom I've had mixed
reactions... live and recorded...

the Giulini/CSO is fabulous, overall my favorite M1.
I also love the Walter/ColSO version.
p***@yahoo.com
2006-10-20 14:52:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.

Barry
j***@aol.com
2006-10-20 15:30:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.
Barry
The double-bass solo in the Bernstein/NY recording has never satisfied
me. Otherwise I think I'd be even more confident in that choice and
more pleased with his 3rd movement.

--Jeff
ansermetniac
2006-10-20 15:37:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.
Barry
The double-bass solo in the Bernstein/NY recording has never satisfied
me. Otherwise I think I'd be even more confident in that choice and
more pleased with his 3rd movement.
--Jeff
The bass solo is, as usual, bad, but the peerless horns make up for
this

Chambers
Carabella
Dinny
Namen
Singer
Johnson
Hired Gun
Hired Gun

Abbedd

Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.
- HL Mencken
p***@yahoo.com
2006-10-20 15:46:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.
Barry
The double-bass solo in the Bernstein/NY recording has never satisfied
me. Otherwise I think I'd be even more confident in that choice and
more pleased with his 3rd movement.
--Jeff
It was that NY recording of the third movement that pulled me into
Mahler's music first. Perhaps there is some sentimental attachment, but
I can almost feel Lenny moving on the podium when I hear either of his
recordings of that movement. He had such a wonderful feel for that
music.
Barry
j***@aol.com
2006-10-20 16:04:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.
Barry
The double-bass solo in the Bernstein/NY recording has never satisfied
me. Otherwise I think I'd be even more confident in that choice and
more pleased with his 3rd movement.
--Jeff
It was that NY recording of the third movement that pulled me into
Mahler's music first. Perhaps there is some sentimental attachment, but
I can almost feel Lenny moving on the podium when I hear either of his
recordings of that movement. He had such a wonderful feel for that
music.
Barry
I know what you mean. It's not the first recording I heard but it was
the first Mahler I bought! I don't deny the effectiveness of the
performance overall, but I run for cover when that solo starts.

--Jeff
D***@aol.com
2006-10-20 18:57:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Michael Schaffer
2006-10-20 22:58:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@yahoo.com
Bernstein (either one.....the NY recording was my introduction to
Mahler and remains a favorite) and Giulini/CSO. Bernstein would be the
one if I had to pick only one by virtue of a better third movement than
Giulini's.
Barry
The double-bass solo in the Bernstein/NY recording >has never satisfied
me. Otherwise I think I'd be even more confident in that choice and
more pleased with his 3rd movement.
--Jeff A possibly interesting piece of trivia about that solo: Reiner was
scheduled to record Mahler 1 with the CSO on April 28, 1958 but decided
that the first-desk bassist couldn't play it well enough and changed
the works in the session to the Divertimento from The Fairy's Kiss
(Stravinsky) and Mysterious Mountain (Hovhaness).
Don Tait
That can not be true. After all, everyone knows the CSO was and is the
greatest orchestra in the universe, so they must have had the greatest
principal bass player in the universe, too.
D***@aol.com
2006-10-21 16:22:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sol L. Siegel
2006-10-22 02:49:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Reiner wasscheduled to record Mahler 1 with the CSO on April 28,
1958 but decided that the first-desk bassist couldn't play it well
enough and changed the works in the session to the Divertimento
from The Fairy's Kiss (Stravinsky) and Mysterious Mountain
(Hovhaness).
If that's the case, then we're richer for it. There have been many
good Mahler 1s, but that Hovhaness is special. (How odd that Stokie
didn't record it.)

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"It may take a village to raise a child - but it only takes one idiot
to burn down the village."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Paul Goldstein
2006-10-20 03:21:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
His earlier version with the LSO is much better IMO, in that it is both powerful
where appropriate and lyrical.
El Klauso
2006-10-20 04:08:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
Alan Briker
2006-10-20 04:18:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
As others have stated, the earlier Solti version with the LSO is better than
his remake with Chicago. My favorites among newer recordings are
Bernstein/Concertgebouw, Boulez/Chicago, and Kubelik/Bavaria.


On 10/20/06 12:08 AM, in article
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
Matthew B. Tepper
2006-10-20 06:59:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
That's one of my favorites too, but Bernstein/Concertgebouw approaches it.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
Humphrey Amputative
2006-10-20 07:58:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
That's one of my favorites too, but Bernstein/Concertgebouw approaches it.
Matthew, is everything all right? You haven't made your usual joke
about Matthew Best.
Sacqueboutier
2006-10-20 12:32:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
Check Berkshire.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
Paul Ilechko
2006-10-20 14:05:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
Yes it is, very cheaply from Berkshire (unless they have sold out
recently).
Josep Vilanova
2006-10-20 17:14:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
That Horenstein performance is one of my favorite ones. The other
performance I like, Giulini, is in some aspects it's opposite. Giulini is
lyrical and sweet sounding where Horenstein is rough and sarcastic. A
comparison of the beginning of the third movement can illustrate those
differences quite well. While Giulini is all seraphic and beautiful,
Horenstein is more earthy and, perhaps, more true to Mahler intentions. I
quite like both performances.

j
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by El Klauso
I'm still awfully fond of the Horenstein/LSO performance. The Unicorn
disc isn't available in the US, but Amazon.UK stocks it.
Yes it is, very cheaply from Berkshire (unless they have sold out
recently).
g***@gmail.com
2015-12-03 09:34:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josep Vilanova
That Horenstein performance is one of my favorite ones. The other
performance I like, Giulini, is in some aspects it's opposite. Giulini is
lyrical and sweet sounding where Horenstein is rough and sarcastic...
Recent radio program featuring Horenstein's Mahler:

https://beta.prx.org/stories/166236
c***@gmail.com
2015-12-03 22:06:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://beta.prx.org/stories/166236
They announce ALL 9 Mahler symphonies under Horenstein. Has a 2nd really been found at last? Details please?
Matthew Silverstein
2006-10-20 05:49:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
My favorites are Kubelik/BRSO (DG), Bernstein/Concertgebouw (DG), and
MTT/SFS. I'd love to hear the live Kubelik on Audite.

Matty
Joe Martin
2006-10-20 16:35:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Matthew Silverstein
My favorites are Kubelik/BRSO (DG), Bernstein/Concertgebouw (DG), and
MTT/SFS. I'd love to hear the live Kubelik on Audite.
You would indeed love tro hear it, I would expect, given your other
choices. I like those three very much, but I think the live Kubelik
may be even better. Also, don't miss Gielen.
Bob Harper
2006-10-20 23:43:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Matthew Silverstein wrote:
(snip)
Post by Matthew Silverstein
My favorites are Kubelik/BRSO (DG), Bernstein/Concertgebouw (DG), and
MTT/SFS. I'd love to hear the live Kubelik on Audite.
Matty
You'd like it a lot. It has everything the DG does plus that something
extra that comes from live performance. Don't hesitate.

Bob Harper
Precious Roy
2018-11-19 03:12:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Lemme add to the plaudits for Horenstein/LSO. Get the Unicorn LP -- cover shows the maestro in a black turtleneck. Looks like he's going to rush out and do Hamlet in the park.
Dave Cook
2006-10-20 05:56:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
Ancerl would be my current pick.

Dave Cook
Gerard
2006-10-20 07:27:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
While not disagreeing with others that Bernstein (DG) is the best version, or
Solti (with LSO), I think that the bester version is Kondrashin (with the NDR
Symphony Orchestra).

http://inkpot.com/classical/emikondmah.html
Alan Cooper
2006-10-20 12:58:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
While not disagreeing with others that Bernstein (DG) is the best version, or
Solti (with LSO), I think that the bester version is Kondrashin (with the NDR
Symphony Orchestra).
http://inkpot.com/classical/emikondmah.html
I've never heard this one, but I like Kondrashin's Moscow Philharmonic
recording very much. An out-of-the-way recording that I've enjoyed
recently is Steinberg's early-50s mono with the Pittsburgh Symphony,
which was available briefly on EMI CD. (I bought it for the coupling,
actually: Steinberg's performance of Bloch's Concerto Grosso #1, which
is much better than Kubelik's contemporary recording of that work,
imo.) The Mahler features a nice brisk opening movement complemented
by a second movement that is more relaxed and playful than most. It
works well for me.

AC
Sol L. Siegel
2006-10-22 02:55:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:58:58 -0400, Alan Cooper
Post by Alan Cooper
An out-of-the-way recording that I've enjoyed
recently is Steinberg's early-50s mono with the Pittsburgh Symphony,
which was available briefly on EMI CD.
My introduction to Mahler, on a cheap (and rechanneled) Pickwick LP.
But it didn't really "turn me on" to his music; it was LB's first
version of the 3rd that did that for me.

My current faves are the ubiquitous Horenstein/Unicorn and Giulini.
When I want something more immediately exciting I turn to a relative
dark horse, Muti.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"It may take a village to raise a child - but it only takes one idiot
to burn down the village."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Paul Ilechko
2006-10-22 20:22:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sol L. Siegel
My current faves are the ubiquitous Horenstein/Unicorn and Giulini.
When I want something more immediately exciting I turn to a relative
dark horse, Muti.
The best thing about Horenstein is the 4th movement. In many recordings
this comes across as almost anti-climactic, but Horenstein stretches it
out and gives it all he has, it's immense and inspiring.

I also love the "blatty" horns in the first movement. He really
understands how to play up the trashy side of Mahler.
j***@aol.com
2006-10-22 20:32:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul Ilechko
Post by Sol L. Siegel
My current faves are the ubiquitous Horenstein/Unicorn and Giulini.
When I want something more immediately exciting I turn to a relative
dark horse, Muti.
The best thing about Horenstein is the 4th movement. In many recordings
this comes across as almost anti-climactic, but Horenstein stretches it
out and gives it all he has, it's immense and inspiring.
One of the neat things about Horenstein is he sometimes stretches out
where Bernstein/NY lunges forward. The two are a complementary pair in
the last movement and I don't find one to be more climactic than the
other.

--Jeff
johnn0
2006-10-20 18:11:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
FWIW:

The Amsterdam Phil recording under Arpad Joo is unexpectedly excellent (and
he takes repeats). Also superb dynamics engineering-wise.

Kubelik, of course (DG Originals, Audite, Japanese DVD---all superb).

Horenstein/LSO, too.
pgaron
2006-10-20 18:40:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by johnn0
Horenstein/LSO, too.
Do other besides yours truly have fond memories of the psychedelic
cover art on the Nonesuch LP release in the U.S. of the Horenstein/LSO
Mahler 1st (which I still own, incidentally)? It's a reference to the
painting of the huntsman's funeral that allegedly inspired Mahler to
write the "Frere Jacques" funeral dirge.

pgaron
k***@yahoo.co.uk
2006-10-20 19:19:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by pgaron
Post by johnn0
Horenstein/LSO, too.
Do other besides yours truly have fond memories of the psychedelic
cover art on the Nonesuch LP release in the U.S. of the Horenstein/LSO
Mahler 1st (which I still own, incidentally)? It's a reference to the
painting of the huntsman's funeral that allegedly inspired Mahler to
write the "Frere Jacques" funeral dirge.
pgaron
Try Sir Adrian Boult and the London Philharmonic in Mahler 1 for a
fiery, non-sentimental reading with a rip-roaring finale and terrific
"35mm Film Stereo" recorded sound from the legendary engineer Bert
Whyte (Everest EVC 9022).
Ward Hardman
2006-10-20 23:24:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by pgaron
Post by johnn0
Horenstein/LSO, too.
Do other besides yours truly have fond memories of the psychedelic
cover art on the Nonesuch LP release in the U.S. of the Horenstein/LSO
Mahler 1st (which I still own, incidentally)? It's a reference to the
painting of the huntsman's funeral that allegedly inspired Mahler to
write the "Frere Jacques" funeral dirge.
The Frank Breiff/New Haven Symphony/Columbia Odyssey LP cover had the
(reputedly) *actual* engraving (of this funeral cortege) which inspired
Mahler. The recording debut of "Blumine" was a bonus.

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
Kalman Rubinson
2006-10-20 19:28:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by johnn0
The Amsterdam Phil recording under Arpad Joo is unexpectedly excellent (and
he takes repeats). Also superb dynamics engineering-wise.
And whatever happened to Arpad Joo? Only a few recordings after the
Sefel series and then.................................

Kal
J***@msn.com
2006-10-20 20:02:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kalman Rubinson
Post by johnn0
The Amsterdam Phil recording under Arpad Joo is unexpectedly excellent (and
he takes repeats). Also superb dynamics engineering-wise.
And whatever happened to Arpad Joo? Only a few recordings after the
Sefel series and then.................................
Kal
Have not read all the above since there is no best version of the
mahler 1st; but certainly the older commercial recording of the Mahler
1st with Horenstein is head and shoulders (no shampoo included) better
than the later one; also the old Walter, NY Phil; Mitropoulos, Minn
Sym; and the Scherchen, London Sym. ; and Barbirolli, Halle for
starters (Boult is very fine as well) - but then I have old school
tastes. Don't have the Sinopoli, but I am looking for the complete
Mahler with him and then.....Hauser
Lasse
2006-10-20 23:35:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
what a boring discussion. Everbody knows that Walter '61 is the best
version. Boulez is good too.
Gerard
2006-10-21 09:51:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lasse
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
what a boring discussion. Everbody knows that Walter '61 is the best
version. Boulez is good too.
What a boring reply. If everybody knows that, why should they answer
differently? To make it a little less boring, I guess.
J***@msn.com
2006-10-21 15:55:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by Lasse
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
what a boring discussion. Everbody knows that Walter '61 is the best
version. Boulez is good too.
What a boring reply. If everybody knows that, why should they answer
differently? To make it a little less boring, I guess.
Some thoughts on Mahler:
In suggesting that Walter's interpretation of the Mahler's first
symphony (the commercial recording with the NY Phil) is a benchmark (in
the American capitalistic new vocabulary, a word that is bantered about
and I detest), I noted that Walter's feeling in the Landler movement
was particularly distinctive. This weekend shopping around I came
across a 1998 paperback of Adorno's music writings [Quasi una
Fantasia, 1998, Verso Classics]. Synchronicity abounds. Here are some
excerpts from Adorno's Centenary Address given in Vienna 1960:

....Mahler's innovations - and these were his essential
contribution - are not comprehensible without reference to the norm
from which he deviated, the norm which is itself a deviation. I am
speaking of his Austrian idiom, which is also the determining musical
tradition of Europe. (The translator's [Rodney Livingstone] footnote
reads: Looking at Mahler from a German perspective, Adorno thinks of
Austrian as a deviation from German, even though the Austrian musical
tradition is not a deviation but the core)....
...From the Austrian tradition he inherited that instinct for dwelling
on what is musically meaningful, as opposed to any purely mechanical
sequence of events....even as an interpreter Mahler has an important
place in that intellectual movement of the age which served notice on
the dominant conformism. This has the paradoxical effect that the
impermanent performances that he rehearsed and conducted have become
immortal, even to those who were not present. A person who has lost a
loved one often looks for traces of his way of speaking, moving and
gesturing in the people who knew him or at least belonged to the same
circle, so that what seems to be the nuance of an intonation may
provide the consolation that the dead man is not wholly dead. In the
same way, one would like to reconstruct what it was like to have been
directed by him from the accounts of those who knew him. I sometimes
play with the idea that the features of his face, suffering and tender,
powerful and earnest, were shared out among the conductors and
composers who succeeded him.
To hear Mahler properly it is essential to be attuned to the consensus
that prevails wherever music speaks Austrian. In this respect the
extremes meet, since Bruckner was on friendly terms with Mahler, while
Webern was probably his most authentic interpreter. The Austrian
spoken by his mother is inscribed in passages in early works like the
trio of the First Symphony, which is sweet without being sugary, thanks
to the richly differentiated levels of harmony. Austrian too is the
long Ländler melody in the andante of the Second Symphony, which was
probably the first piece to attract Mahler lovers to his music. It is
enough on its own to refute the accusations of a poverty of melodic
inventiveness, if anyone were still brave enough to level that charge.
He was capable of such extended melodic passages whenever he required
them, even in his maturest phase - in the first trio of the first
"Night" music of the Seventh Symphony and in the incomparable F
sharp major theme of the adagio sketch for the Tenth. That he was
sparing in his use of melody is due not to his lack of inventiveness,
but to a symphonic conception in which the whole surpasses even he most
beautiful parts, Austrian, lastly, is his counterpoint, the imaginative
creation of melodies to be added to those already set, a process of
condensation arrived at not by compression, but by allowing free rein
to the profusion of his ideas. Even in the muted works of his last
phase we find a recurrence of the Austrian tone. In the "Dance of
Death" in the Ninth, a tune reminiscent of a Ländler is played on
the fiddle.

I suggest that the serious Mahler collector own all of Walter's
Mahler recordings - they are such an important link to Mahler's
interpretations and Mahler, the man. Old schooler's who own the
first pressing of Walter's last recording of the Ninth were lucky
enough to have the excerpt record of Walter rehearsing its Ländler
movement and are aware of the tremendous nurturing of the phrasing
Walter asked of the musicians in its passages. His piano accompaniment
of the Mahler songs in the recording of the Fifth symphony is further
evidence of his being thoroughly steeped in "Mahlerian" tradition.
Over time, I have been increasingly convinced of Walter's conducting
genius.
I suggest newcomers to Mahler's music search out these books:
1. Gustav Mahler by Bruno Walter (with biographical essay by Ernst
Krenek; trans. James Galston); Vienna House reprint, 1973.
2. Gustav Mahler, Memories and Letters by Alma Mahler (ed by Donald
Mitchell); University of Washington Press, 1969.
3. Recollections of Gustav Mahler by Natalie Bauer-Lechner (trans Dika
Newlin); Cambridge University Press, 1980.
Reading books and ultimately listening to the music(particularly
Walter's), will help far more than most postings on this list (my
apologies to the posters that have something to say, but, as of late,
my patience wears thin with some folks' arrogance). Hauser
j***@aol.com
2006-10-21 19:08:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J***@msn.com
I suggest that the serious Mahler collector own all of Walter's
Mahler recordings - they are such an important link to Mahler's
interpretations and Mahler, the man.
Careful, someone like Tepper might take you seriously and actually try
to own *every* Mahler 4 Walter ever performed before a microphone.
What's the count now, Matthew, 10? 12?

But you are right that a some reading is a good thing because Mahler
was a fascinating person emblematic of an era.

--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
2006-10-21 20:34:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Post by J***@msn.com
I suggest that the serious Mahler collector own all of Walter's
Mahler recordings - they are such an important link to Mahler's
interpretations and Mahler, the man.
Careful, someone like Tepper might take you seriously and actually try
to own *every* Mahler 4 Walter ever performed before a microphone.
What's the count now, Matthew, 10? 12?
Nope, only 9, ranging from the commercial recording with New York in 1945,
to the Vienna farewell fifteen years later. Six different orchestras, six
different sopranos.
Post by j***@aol.com
But you are right that a some reading is a good thing because Mahler
was a fascinating person emblematic of an era.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
g***@gmail.com
2018-11-18 05:59:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
http://www.classical-music.com/article/guide-mahlers-first-symphony
Brian Burtt
2018-11-20 13:28:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There are a lot of really good versions of this. My favorite would be Gielen, followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
r***@gmail.com
2018-11-20 18:55:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.

My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1, Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.

Ray Hall, Taree
Ed Presson
2018-11-20 19:09:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
wrote in message news:70f0cdbb-2bf9-40e6-b723-***@googlegroups.com...

-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be
Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
Post by r***@gmail.com
My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1,
Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be
excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.
Ray Hall, Taree
At the moment, I most enjoy Bernstein1 and Walter. Arpad Joo did a good one
in modern sound on some obscure label.

Ed Presson
Gerard
2018-11-20 21:54:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1, Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.
Ray Hall, Taree
Did anyone listen to the recent recordings by Nézet-Séguin and Adam Fischer?
(I mean ADAM Fischer, not his brother IVAN.)
Alex Brown
2018-11-21 16:42:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by r***@gmail.com
-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1, Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.
Ray Hall, Taree
Did anyone listen to the recent recordings by Nézet-Séguin and Adam Fischer?
(I mean ADAM Fischer, not his brother IVAN.)
Yeah the Nézet-Séguin recording (BR-Klassik) was very good from memory -
characterful and superbly recorded: a real treat of a disc.

But then there are lots of top-drawer Mahler 1 recordings (e.g.
Bernstein/Concertgebouw, Kubelik/Bavarian RSO, Ozawa/Boston with
Blumine) ... but at the top of the top drawer is Walter/NYPO in 1954, in
good mono sound.
--
- Alex Brown
n***@gmail.com
2018-11-21 16:57:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alex Brown
Post by Gerard
Post by r***@gmail.com
-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1, Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.
Ray Hall, Taree
Did anyone listen to the recent recordings by Nézet-Séguin and Adam Fischer?
(I mean ADAM Fischer, not his brother IVAN.)
Yeah the Nézet-Séguin recording (BR-Klassik) was very good from memory -
characterful and superbly recorded: a real treat of a disc.
But then there are lots of top-drawer Mahler 1 recordings (e.g.
Bernstein/Concertgebouw, Kubelik/Bavarian RSO, Ozawa/Boston with
Blumine) ... but at the top of the top drawer is Walter/NYPO in 1954, in
good mono sound.
--
- Alex Brown
Leinsdorf/Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (Decca Phase 4).
Frank Berger
2018-11-21 18:52:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
Post by Gerard
Post by r***@gmail.com
-Brian Burtt
-There are a lot of really good versions -of this. My favorite would be Gielen,
-followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
My allegiance to M1 is Walter/Col.SO. I have Kubelik, Bernstein1, Tennstedt, Bertini, and although I yet to spin Bertini, it will have to be excellent to replace Walter, whose first movement I find magical.
Ray Hall, Taree
Did anyone listen to the recent recordings by Nézet-Séguin and Adam Fischer?
(I mean ADAM Fischer, not his brother IVAN.)
Yeah the Nézet-Séguin recording (BR-Klassik) was very good from memory -
characterful and superbly recorded: a real treat of a disc.
But then there are lots of top-drawer Mahler 1 recordings (e.g.
Bernstein/Concertgebouw, Kubelik/Bavarian RSO, Ozawa/Boston with
Blumine) ... but at the top of the top drawer is Walter/NYPO in 1954, in
good mono sound.
--
- Alex Brown
Leinsdorf/Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (Decca Phase 4).
Nanut/Ljubljana SO

Just thought I'd throw that it in. I don't know if it's any good.
n***@gmail.com
2018-11-20 19:12:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Burtt
There are a lot of really good versions of this. My favorite would be Gielen, followed by Bertini and both Kubeliks.
Which favorites include the Blumine movement? The first one I owned was Judd (Harmonia Mundi). Currently I enjoy listening to Norrington (Hanssler), Ozawa (DG) and Levi (Telarc).

I also have Mehta (EMI) and Hengelbrock (Sony). (I don't believe there are any complete Mahler Symphony sets which include a 'Titan' having the Blumine movement.) There must be some I neglected to mention.
g***@gmail.com
2018-11-20 02:22:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/mahler$20bernstein%7Csort:relevance/rec.music.classical.recordings/EHPXtrW0aTM/K8Gu8CntK8QJ
g***@gmail.com
2018-12-19 05:53:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
(Recent Youtube upload):

Mahler - Symphony No.1 TITAN (Century’s recording : Bruno Walter / New York Philharmonic)
Kerrison
2018-12-19 23:42:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
Mahler - Symphony No.1 TITAN (Century’s recording : Bruno Walter / New York Philharmonic)
I can't believe I plumped for Boult in this thread all of 12 years ago! However, just as a matter of interest, is his timing of 46:40 one of the fastest on disc? ...



The Leinsdorf / RPO 'Phase-4 Stereo' has always been highly rated and his timing is 53:24 ...



The aforementioned Walter / NYPO clocks in at 48:44 ...



And Horenstein with the LSO adds 10 minutes to Boult's timing with a total of 56:58 ...



Do any versions hit the hour-long mark?
Raymond Hall
2018-12-22 02:38:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Do any versions hit the hour-long mark?
Celi never did much Mahler other than various Song Cycles.

Ray Hall, Taree
Ed Presson
2018-12-22 03:41:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
I can't believe I plumped for Boult in this thread all of 12 years ago!
However, just as a matter of interest, is his timing of 46:40 one of the
fastest on disc? ...

I listened to the Boult Mahler CD not long ago. This was the first Mahler
LP I bought decades ago. I may be in the minority on this, but I still
find it surprisingly successful.

Ed Presson
gggg gggg
2021-10-14 17:13:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
(Recent Y. upload):

Bruno Walter (1876-1962) Live: Schubert 8 and Mahler 1 (München 02-10-1950)
gggg gggg
2021-12-26 07:29:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
(Upcoming radio program):

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/12/26/klaus-tennstedt-live-part-1
gggg gggg
2021-12-29 09:07:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
I think that Georg Solti / CSO's Mahler 1 in 1972 (or 1971?) is the
best, because of its powerful brass. The finale is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, not many critics share this view. What do you think?
Ozawa:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Absolutely_on_Music/nxucCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22three+recordings+sound+completely+different%22&pg=PT160&printsec=frontcover
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...