Discussion:
Recommendations for Manfred?
(too old to reply)
dk
2021-01-25 09:55:18 UTC
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TIA

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2021-01-25 21:34:07 UTC
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TIA
dk
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich Orch, Köln (incredible engineering as heard in surround - uses the Soviet retouchings to the orchestration)

There's a Testament album with Svetlanov and the Berlin Philharmonic which MIGHT be incredible, although one Amazon poster claims that it's "slack". I haven't heard it. Svetlanov of course also had an earlier recording with his USSR SO - haven't heard that one either.
dk
2021-01-25 21:41:41 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
TIA
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich Orch, Köln (incredible engineering as heard in
surround - uses the Soviet retouchings to the orchestration)
There's a Testament album with Svetlanov and the Berlin Philharmonic
which MIGHT be incredible, although one Amazon poster claims that it's
"slack". I haven't heard it. Svetlanov of course also had an earlier recording
with his USSR SO - haven't heard that one either.
Thanks!

I have both Haitink and Markevitch on LPs. I haven't listened to them
in eons, however my recollection was their orchestras did not sound
"Russian" enough. I heard Svetlanov/BPO but I do not have a copy. I
see countless performances on YT, including several by Svetlanov.
I will probably focus first on Russian conductors performing with
Russian orchestras.

dk
Herman
2021-01-27 12:29:10 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Chris from Lafayette
TIA
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich Orch, Köln (incredible engineering as heard in
surround - uses the Soviet retouchings to the orchestration)
There's a Testament album with Svetlanov and the Berlin Philharmonic
which MIGHT be incredible, although one Amazon poster claims that it's
"slack". I haven't heard it. Svetlanov of course also had an earlier recording
with his USSR SO - haven't heard that one either.
Thanks!
I have both Haitink and Markevitch on LPs. I haven't listened to them
in eons, however my recollection was their orchestras did not sound
"Russian" enough.
what people call the "Russian orchestra sound" is in reality the soviet / Stalin sound, with blaring brass and power over everything.

It's almost the complete opposite of the "joli" sound Tchaikovsky saw as his ideal, after gaving heard Bizet.
dk
2021-01-27 19:21:08 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by dk
Post by Chris from Lafayette
TIA
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich Orch, Köln (incredible engineering as heard in
surround - uses the Soviet retouchings to the orchestration)
There's a Testament album with Svetlanov and the Berlin Philharmonic
which MIGHT be incredible, although one Amazon poster claims that it's
"slack". I haven't heard it. Svetlanov of course also had an earlier recording
with his USSR SO - haven't heard that one either.
Thanks!
I have both Haitink and Markevitch on LPs. I haven't listened to them
in eons, however my recollection was their orchestras did not sound
"Russian" enough.
what people call the "Russian orchestra sound" is in reality the soviet /
Stalin sound, with blaring brass and power over everything.
I know it when I hear it. Never mind the history.
Post by Herman
It's almost the complete opposite of the "joli" sound
Tchaikovsky saw as his ideal, after gaving heard Bizet.
Are you suggesting Tchaikovsky had "joli" sounds in mind
when he composed "Francesca da Rimini" ?!? My, my, ....

dk
MELMOTH
2021-01-25 22:15:57 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
dk
2021-01-25 22:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
Which Petrenko? They both have live performances on YT!

Which Svetlanov performance? There are many on YT?

Why Toscanini? Haven't we had enough of that crook?

dk
Lawrence Kart
2021-01-26 00:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
Which Petrenko? They both have live performances on YT!
Which Svetlanov performance? There are many on YT?
Why Toscanini? Haven't we had enough of that crook?
dk
Lawrence Kart
2021-01-26 00:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
Which Petrenko? They both have live performances on YT!
Which Svetlanov performance? There are many on YT?
Why Toscanini? Haven't we had enough of that crook?
dk
Lawrence Kart
2021-01-26 00:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
Which Petrenko? They both have live performances on YT!
Which Svetlanov performance? There are many on YT?
Why Toscanini? Haven't we had enough of that crook?
dk
Tilson Thomas -- LSO
dk
2021-01-26 04:06:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Kart
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
Which Petrenko? They both have live performances on YT!
Which Svetlanov performance? There are many on YT?
Why Toscanini? Haven't we had enough of that crook?
Tilson Thomas -- LSO
Thanks!

dk
Chris from Lafayette
2021-01-26 09:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
I think if we all try really hard, one or another of us will have recommended every recording that's ever been made of this fine work! ;-)
Frank Berger
2021-01-26 14:08:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Jurowski/LPO
Simonov/LSO
Markevitch/LSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (don't laugh - it's good)
Kitaenko/Gürzenich
And
*Petrenko*...*Muti*...*Kkailin*...*Kletzki*...*Svetlanov*...*Ormandy*...*Toscanini*...
I think if we all try really hard, one or another of us will have recommended every recording that's ever been made of this fine work! ;-)
But that's always the case. Francesca Da Rimini has been
called the best and worst of Tchaikovsky's works right here,
right now.
Gerard
2021-01-25 21:35:52 UTC
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TIA
dk
Byron.
dk
2021-01-25 21:42:17 UTC
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Post by Gerard
TIA
Byron.
No orchestral score provided.

dk
dk
2021-01-26 07:39:57 UTC
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TIA
Thanks for all the recommendations graciously provided!

I just completed a quick preliminary traversal randomly
sampling performances by non-Russian conductors and
orchestras. To my ears, the winner so far is Ricardo Chailly
with the Concertgebouw.

I plan to follow up tomorrow with the Russian side of
the universe. This is getting interesting.

dk
Alan Dawes
2021-01-26 11:38:19 UTC
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Post by dk
TIA
Thanks for all the recommendations graciously provided!
I just completed a quick preliminary traversal randomly
sampling performances by non-Russian conductors and
orchestras. To my ears, the winner so far is Ricardo Chailly
with the Concertgebouw.
I plan to follow up tomorrow with the Russian side of
the universe. This is getting interesting.
dk
You beat me to it with Chailly assuming it's the 1988 Decca recording.

I find the 2014 recording on Pentatone by Pletnev and the Russian National
Orchestra to be very satisfying partly because the surround sound SACD
recording suits my damaged hearing (3 operations on my right ear for
otoschlerosis) and allows me to pick out the bassoon parts as when I was
70 I started to teach myself the bassoon.

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Dan Fowler
2021-01-26 17:57:54 UTC
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I’m not overly familiar with Manfred but have enjoyed listening to the
rendition conducted by Constantin Silvestri and the French National RTF
Orchestra in the Silvestri Icon box. Some pretty exciting playing at times
and Silvestri shapes the performance nicely.
Post by dk
TIA
Thanks for all the recommendations graciously provided!
I just completed a quick preliminary traversal randomly
sampling performances by non-Russian conductors and
orchestras. To my ears, the winner so far is Ricardo Chailly
with the Concertgebouw.
I plan to follow up tomorrow with the Russian side of
the universe.
Gerard
2021-01-26 18:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Dawes
Post by dk
TIA
Thanks for all the recommendations graciously provided!
I just completed a quick preliminary traversal randomly
sampling performances by non-Russian conductors and
orchestras. To my ears, the winner so far is Ricardo Chailly
with the Concertgebouw.
I plan to follow up tomorrow with the Russian side of
the universe. This is getting interesting.
dk
You beat me to it with Chailly assuming it's the 1988 Decca recording.
I find the 2014 recording on Pentatone by Pletnev and the Russian National
Orchestra to be very satisfying partly because the surround sound SACD
recording suits my damaged hearing (3 operations on my right ear for
otoschlerosis) and allows me to pick out the bassoon parts as when I was
70 I started to teach myself the bassoon.
Alan
I like both recordings by Pletnev.
Another "Russian" recording: Ashkenazy, and Markevich, Rozhdestvensky,
Rostropovich. And of course Petrenko (Naxos) and Jurowski.
Further: Silvestri, Muti, Jansons, Maazel.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-01-26 20:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
I like both recordings by Pletnev.
Another "Russian" recording: Ashkenazy, and Markevich, Rozhdestvensky,
Rostropovich. And of course Petrenko (Naxos) and Jurowski.
Further: Silvestri, Muti, Jansons, Maazel.
See? I KNEW we could do it if we tried! ;-)

It's funny - my own "philosophy" of acquiring recordings is that only VERY rarely is there one "best" recording, so I'm not at all surprised by these various recommendations. I remember that Ms. CfL and I once listened to over 80 recordings of the Mahler Fifth. (This was over a number of weeks of course.) The more I heard, the less certain I became that there was any one "best" recording. (OTOH, Ms. CfL eventually found her fave out of all of them: Jonathan Darlington and the Duisberg Phil on the Acousence label - yup, even those third-rate German orchestras today can play up a storm!)
Gerard
2021-01-26 20:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Gerard
I like both recordings by Pletnev.
Another "Russian" recording: Ashkenazy, and Markevich, Rozhdestvensky,
Rostropovich. And of course Petrenko (Naxos) and Jurowski.
Further: Silvestri, Muti, Jansons, Maazel.
See? I KNEW we could do it if we tried! ;-)
It's funny - my own "philosophy" of acquiring recordings is that only VERY rarely is there one "best" recording,
But isn't that a statement we have seen here many times before?
And something there is a kind of consensus about? Some (many?) people
like to shout "Munch" or "Bernstein" or any other favorite. But those
are only favorites of the day. Next day or week another new favorite
will be reissued or released.
The more favorites you hear, the less "best" they are.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-01-26 21:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by Chris from Lafayette
It's funny - my own "philosophy" of acquiring recordings is that only VERY rarely is there one "best" recording,
But isn't that a statement we have seen here many times before?
And something there is a kind of consensus about? Some (many?) people
like to shout "Munch" or "Bernstein" or any other favorite. But those
are only favorites of the day. Next day or week another new favorite
will be reissued or released.
The more favorites you hear, the less "best" they are.
Yes - I agree!
gggg gggg
2021-01-30 03:14:51 UTC
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TIA
dk
(Hurwitz Youtube upload):

Repertoire: The BEST Tchaikovsky "Manfred" Symphony
dk
2021-01-30 04:07:00 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
TIA
Repertoire: The BEST Tchaikovsky "Manfred" Symphony
Totally meaningless.

dk
Herman
2021-01-30 09:45:54 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by gggg gggg
TIA
Repertoire: The BEST Tchaikovsky "Manfred" Symphony
Totally meaningless.
dk
Hurwitz is really the worst of those "don't listen to the music, listen to ME" music reviewers.
This guy can barely hit a tamtam and yet he's totally sure he knows better than all conductors.
gggg gggg
2021-01-30 03:48:47 UTC
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TIA
dk
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical/c/9YSQH_bwDq4
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