Discussion:
BOULT...
(too old to reply)
MELMOTH
2021-04-28 10:56:09 UTC
Permalink
https://www.amazon.fr/Great-Conductors-20th-Century-Adrian/dp/B00006IGIT/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=boult+great&qid=1619606858&s=music&sr=1-4

"In musical and general education the conductor must be unusually welle
equipped. He must have a great deal of musical knowledge ; and I don't
just mean of orchestral scores. He must also a working knowledgz of all
instrumentq with which he is to come in contact, in cluding the human
voice."

Many current conductors would be well advised to follow the advice of
this IMMENSE Man/artist of Music...
I just listened again to the above mentioned album...Absolutely
beautiful...
Cf. also the two Warner box sets, indispensable...
Frank Berger
2021-04-28 13:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
https://www.amazon.fr/Great-Conductors-20th-Century-Adrian/dp/B00006IGIT/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=boult+great&qid=1619606858&s=music&sr=1-4
"In musical and general education the conductor must be unusually welle equipped. He must have a great deal of musical knowledge ; and I don't just mean of orchestral scores. He must also a working knowledgz of all instrumentq with which he is to come in contact, in cluding the human voice."
Many current conductors would be well advised to follow the advice of this IMMENSE Man/artist of Music...
I just listened again to the above mentioned album...Absolutely beautiful...
Cf. also the two Warner box sets, indispensable...
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
MELMOTH
2021-04-28 13:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
You are confused with Chhrista Ludwig !...
Dan Koren
2021-04-28 15:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?

dk
Owen
2021-04-28 19:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
dk
It came like a Boult out of the blue.

-Owen
Frank Berger
2021-04-28 19:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
dk
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
-Owen
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually say it.
Dan Koren
2021-04-28 19:58:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it
sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually
say it.
It actually sounds more like "Boole".

dk
Frank Berger
2021-04-28 20:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it
sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually
say it.
It actually sounds more like "Boole".
dk
I hate these terse non-communicative efforts. Correct pronounciation is "Bolt" or very similar. In French it would be, as you say, similiar to Boole. So tha Bolt out of the blue would be Boole out of the bleu or actually something like Boult hors du blue. Although google translates bolt out of the blue as "audacieux a l'improviste." Except that google translate that back to English as "unexpectedly daring."
Kerrison
2021-04-30 17:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it
sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually
say it.
It actually sounds more like "Boole".
dk
I hate these terse non-communicative efforts. Correct pronounciation is "Bolt" or very similar. In French it would be, as you say, similiar to Boole. So tha Bolt out of the blue would be Boole out of the bleu or actually something like Boult hors du blue. Although google translates bolt out of the blue as "audacieux a l'improviste." Except that google translate that back to English as "unexpectedly daring."
Boult was at his best when he was conducting something with which he was never remotely associated. For example, click this link, turn your speakers up and hear a quite spiffing performance of Richard Rodgers "Guadalcanal" March ...



Bravo Boult!
Bob Harper
2021-04-30 23:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it
sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually
say it.
It actually sounds more like "Boole".
dk
I hate these terse non-communicative efforts. Correct pronounciation is "Bolt" or very similar. In French it would be, as you say, similiar to Boole. So tha Bolt out of the blue would be Boole out of the bleu or actually something like Boult hors du blue. Although google translates bolt out of the blue as "audacieux a l'improviste." Except that google translate that back to English as "unexpectedly daring."
Boult was at his best when he was conducting something with which he was never remotely associated. For example, click this link, turn your speakers up and hear a quite spiffing performance of Richard Rodgers "Guadalcanal" March ...
http://youtu.be/yiwi3GmeiuU
Bravo Boult!
Wow! Id love to hear the entire score, or at least the suite, conducted
like that.

Bob Harper
Mark Obert-Thorn
2021-05-02 13:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Boult was at his best when he was conducting something with which he was never remotely associated. For example, click this link, turn your speakers up and hear a quite spiffing performance of Richard Rodgers "Guadalcanal" March ...
http://youtu.be/yiwi3GmeiuU
Bravo Boult!
Along the same lines, Pristine recently released Boult's two concerts with the NBC Symphony from May, 1938, in which he plays the U.S. premiere of Copland's "El Salon Mexico" (the world premiere had been given the previous year by Carlos Chavez in Mexico):

https://www.pristineclassical.com/products/pasc626?_pos=8&_sid=8bee4ee3a&_ss=r

It's particularly interesting to hear it in the absence of any prior recorded performance tradition, given "straight" without the personal touches that would begin to accrue with the Koussevitzky recording made later that year.

Mark O-T
Kerrison
2021-05-03 06:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Obert-Thorn
Post by Kerrison
Boult was at his best when he was conducting something with which he was never remotely associated. For example, click this link, turn your speakers up and hear a quite spiffing performance of Richard Rodgers "Guadalcanal" March ...
http://youtu.be/yiwi3GmeiuU
Bravo Boult!
https://www.pristineclassical.com/products/pasc626?_pos=8&_sid=8bee4ee3a&_ss=r
It's particularly interesting to hear it in the absence of any prior recorded performance tradition, given "straight" without the personal touches that would begin to accrue with the Koussevitzky recording made later that year.
Mark O-T
Interesting to read that Boult conducted some Copland, and a US premiere at that. He also recorded Gershwin's "Cuban Overture," another piece of off-beat casting that 'World Record Club' decided upon, in what was doubtless the only time he ever conducted it! I'm slightly reluctant to post the YouTube upload as his performance doesn't have the pizzazz of all the others - well, he was 78 years old at the time in 1967 - but although one comment under the video does state "Far too slow" another one says "This is terrific," so take your pick! ...


Christopher Howell
2021-05-04 06:37:38 UTC
Permalink
"Far too slow" or not, a brief look at youtube timings shows that, while Arthur Fiedler (a reliable guide I daresay) was nearly a minute faster, most classically trained musicians (Maazel, Mehta, Chailly) were slower, while Howard Hanson is the slowest of all.
Maybe the issue is not the tempo in itself, but a relaxed treatment of the rhythms that relates the music more to the British jazz of Jack Hylton or a British light music composer like Eric Coates, rather than the more tensile American product
Interesting to read that Boult conducted some Copland, and a US premiere at that. He also recorded Gershwin's "Cuban Overture," another piece of off-beat casting that 'World Record Club' decided upon, in what was doubtless the only time he ever conducted it! I'm slightly reluctant to post the YouTube upload as his performance doesn't have the pizzazz of all the others - well, he was 78 years old at the time in 1967 - but although one comment under the video does state "Far too slow" another one says "This is terrific," so take your pick! ...
http://youtu.be/VbaMvOondYE
Kerrison
2021-05-04 11:05:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Howell
"Far too slow" or not, a brief look at youtube timings shows that, while Arthur Fiedler (a reliable guide I daresay) was nearly a minute faster, most classically trained musicians (Maazel, Mehta, Chailly) were slower, while Howard Hanson is the slowest of all.
Maybe the issue is not the tempo in itself, but a relaxed treatment of the rhythms that relates the music more to the British jazz of Jack Hylton or a British light music composer like Eric Coates, rather than the more tensile American product
Interesting to read that Boult conducted some Copland, and a US premiere at that. He also recorded Gershwin's "Cuban Overture," another piece of off-beat casting that 'World Record Club' decided upon, in what was doubtless the only time he ever conducted it! I'm slightly reluctant to post the YouTube upload as his performance doesn't have the pizzazz of all the others - well, he was 78 years old at the time in 1967 - but although one comment under the video does state "Far too slow" another one says "This is terrific," so take your pick! ...
http://youtu.be/VbaMvOondYE
Tempo comes into it again in one of the 14 marches that Boult recorded for a 'World Record Club' LP in 1967. I don't know if he had to get them all done in one session, or whether he wanted to make sure they all fitted onto one LP, but the "way too fast" criticism also appears under this "Stars and Stripes" track ... Interestingly, he makes the repeats! ...


Christopher Howell
2021-05-04 18:28:11 UTC
Permalink
They may be too fast for marching but they make stirring listening
Tempo comes into it again in one of the 14 marches that Boult recorded for a 'World Record Club' LP in 1967. I don't know if he had to get them all done in one session, or whether he wanted to make sure they all fitted onto one LP, but the "way too fast" criticism also appears under this "Stars and Stripes" track ... Interestingly, he makes the repeats! ...
http://youtu.be/sIOX5aKSIIM
Alan P Dawes
2021-05-05 10:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Post by Christopher Howell
"Far too slow" or not, a brief look at youtube timings shows that,
while Arthur Fiedler (a reliable guide I daresay) was nearly a minute
faster, most classically trained musicians (Maazel, Mehta, Chailly)
were slower, while Howard Hanson is the slowest of all. Maybe the
issue is not the tempo in itself, but a relaxed treatment of the
rhythms that relates the music more to the British jazz of Jack Hylton
or a British light music composer like Eric Coates, rather than the
more tensile American product
Post by Kerrison
Interesting to read that Boult conducted some Copland, and a US
premiere at that. He also recorded Gershwin's "Cuban Overture,"
another piece of off-beat casting that 'World Record Club' decided
upon, in what was doubtless the only time he ever conducted it! I'm
slightly reluctant to post the YouTube upload as his performance
doesn't have the pizzazz of all the others - well, he was 78 years
old at the time in 1967 - but although one comment under the video
does state "Far too slow" another one says "This is terrific," so
take your pick! ...
http://youtu.be/VbaMvOondYE
Tempo comes into it again in one of the 14 marches that Boult recorded
for a 'World Record Club' LP in 1967. I don't know if he had to get them
all done in one session, or whether he wanted to make sure they all
fitted onto one LP, but the "way too fast" criticism also appears under
this "Stars and Stripes" track ... Interestingly, he makes the repeats!
...
http://youtu.be/sIOX5aKSIIM
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments was 140
beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Christopher Howell
2021-05-05 10:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Without grubbing in the attic to look it up, I recall W.A. Chislett, reviewing this disc in Gramophone, described Gualdacanal as taken at "light infantry pace, or even faster", and seems to have enjoyed the rest. Boult, until the frailties of his very last years overtook him, took regular walks, both long and swift, so perhaps this was his pace.
Post by Alan P Dawes
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments was 140
beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!
Alan
Kerrison
2021-05-05 15:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Howell
Without grubbing in the attic to look it up, I recall W.A. Chislett, reviewing this disc in Gramophone, described Gualdacanal as taken at "light infantry pace, or even faster", and seems to have enjoyed the rest. Boult, until the frailties of his very last years overtook him, took regular walks, both long and swift, so perhaps this was his pace.
Post by Alan P Dawes
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments was 140
beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!
Alan
Still with Boult's tempos, I have a soft spot for his only Shostakovich recording, the 6th Symphony, coupled on Everest with the 9th conducted by Sargent. Have a listen to the 6th's finale and hear Boult galvanising the LPO into pulling all the stops out. I bet he loved getting away from Elgar and Vaughan Williams for a while. It certainly sounds like it! ...


Christopher Howell
2021-05-05 19:07:00 UTC
Permalink
His only official Shostakovich recording, but his performance of Symphony 12 was issued years ago on Intaglio. He doesn't hang about there either.
Post by Kerrison
Still with Boult's tempos, I have a soft spot for his only Shostakovich recording, the 6th Symphony, coupled on Everest with the 9th conducted by Sargent. Have a listen to the 6th's finale and hear Boult galvanising the LPO into pulling all the stops out. I bet he loved getting away from Elgar and Vaughan Williams for a while. It certainly sounds like it! ...
http://youtu.be/WILLRjqgdpw
Bob Harper
2021-05-05 21:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Post by Christopher Howell
Without grubbing in the attic to look it up, I recall W.A. Chislett, reviewing this disc in Gramophone, described Gualdacanal as taken at "light infantry pace, or even faster", and seems to have enjoyed the rest. Boult, until the frailties of his very last years overtook him, took regular walks, both long and swift, so perhaps this was his pace.
Post by Alan P Dawes
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments was 140
beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!
Alan
Still with Boult's tempos, I have a soft spot for his only Shostakovich recording, the 6th Symphony, coupled on Everest with the 9th conducted by Sargent. Have a listen to the 6th's finale and hear Boult galvanising the LPO into pulling all the stops out. I bet he loved getting away from Elgar and Vaughan Williams for a while. It certainly sounds like it! ...
http://youtu.be/WILLRjqgdpw
That was my first recording of the 6th, on LP. I have the CD now, and
it's still one of the finest IMO. His daringly slow tempo in the first
movement really works, and the contrast between it and the second and
third is that much greater.

Bob Harper
Kerrison
2021-05-06 22:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Kerrison
Post by Christopher Howell
Without grubbing in the attic to look it up, I recall W.A. Chislett, reviewing this disc in Gramophone, described Gualdacanal as taken at "light infantry pace, or even faster", and seems to have enjoyed the rest. Boult, until the frailties of his very last years overtook him, took regular walks, both long and swift, so perhaps this was his pace.
Post by Alan P Dawes
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments was 140
beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!
Alan
Still with Boult's tempos, I have a soft spot for his only Shostakovich recording, the 6th Symphony, coupled on Everest with the 9th conducted by Sargent. Have a listen to the 6th's finale and hear Boult galvanising the LPO into pulling all the stops out. I bet he loved getting away from Elgar and Vaughan Williams for a while. It certainly sounds like it! ...
http://youtu.be/WILLRjqgdpw
That was my first recording of the 6th, on LP. I have the CD now, and
it's still one of the finest IMO. His daringly slow tempo in the first
movement really works, and the contrast between it and the second and
third is that much greater.
Bob Harper
Another Boult 'Everest' CD is of the Mahler 1st Symphony which has a total timing of 46:28. This would seem to knock about 10 minutes off the usual total timing. I suspect he wasn't keen on the work and was glad to get it over with! ... 'Everest' also engaged him to record the Hindemith Symphony in Eb, though I haven't check his timings on that one. However, his 36-minute whip-through of the Cesar Franck Symphony for 'Readers Digest' on Chesky is almost as fast as the Paray / Detroit account on Mercury. That's another work that in certain hands can last about 45 minutes!
Christopher Howell
2021-05-07 06:00:55 UTC
Permalink
In 1920 Boult visited Amsterdam specially to attend Mengelberg's Mahler Festival and wrote "One feels that Mahler is a master of his structure, whether he uses the traditional forms or not". In the 1940s he conducted performances of symphonies 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10 (Adagio) and Das Lied, some of them British premières. So his dedication to the composer is not in question. Evidently he felt that these were the tempi at which it should go.
His performance of the Franck was based on memories of a performance under Franck's pupil Pierné (Paray might have heard Pierné too, of course). This Franck recording exudes conviction at every turn, though I know some find it rigid.
Post by Kerrison
Another Boult 'Everest' CD is of the Mahler 1st Symphony which has a total timing of 46:28. This would seem to knock about 10 minutes off the usual total timing. I suspect he wasn't keen on the work and was glad to get it over with! ... 'Everest' also engaged him to record the Hindemith Symphony in Eb, though I haven't check his timings on that one. However, his 36-minute whip-through of the Cesar Franck Symphony for 'Readers Digest' on Chesky is almost as fast as the Paray / Detroit account on Mercury. That's another work that in certain hands can last about 45 minutes!
Alan Dawes
2021-05-07 09:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Kerrison
Post by Christopher Howell
Without grubbing in the attic to look it up, I recall W.A.
Chislett, reviewing this disc in Gramophone, described Gualdacanal
as taken at "light infantry pace, or even faster", and seems to
have enjoyed the rest. Boult, until the frailties of his very last
years overtook him, took regular walks, both long and swift, so
perhaps this was his pace.
Post by Alan P Dawes
The quick march of the British light infantry and rifle regiments
was 140 beats per minute so perhaps not too fast!
Alan
Still with Boult's tempos, I have a soft spot for his only
Shostakovich recording, the 6th Symphony, coupled on Everest with
the 9th conducted by Sargent. Have a listen to the 6th's finale and
hear Boult galvanising the LPO into pulling all the stops out. I bet
he loved getting away from Elgar and Vaughan Williams for a while.
It certainly sounds like it! ...
http://youtu.be/WILLRjqgdpw
That was my first recording of the 6th, on LP. I have the CD now, and
it's still one of the finest IMO. His daringly slow tempo in the first
movement really works, and the contrast between it and the second and
third is that much greater.
Bob Harper
Another Boult 'Everest' CD is of the Mahler 1st Symphony which has a
total timing of 46:28. This would seem to knock about 10 minutes off the
usual total timing. I suspect he wasn't keen on the work and was glad to
get it over with! ... 'Everest' also engaged him to record the Hindemith
Symphony in Eb, though I haven't check his timings on that one. However,
his 36-minute whip-through of the Cesar Franck Symphony for 'Readers
Digest' on Chesky is almost as fast as the Paray / Detroit account on
Mercury. That's another work that in certain hands can last about 45
minutes!
I have the Everest CD (EVERCD 013) of the LPO Boult Hindemith Symphony:
1st Mov 5:09
2nd Mov 9:26
3rd Mov 6:16
4th Mov 8:55
Total 29:47
Nothing else on the disc so that must be the shortest CD I have ever
bought. I got it from Gramex near Waterloo London shortly before it sadly
had to close because of redevelopment. I miss the friendly banter in the
shop. Does anyone know how the owner Roger Hewland is?


Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
r***@gmail.com
2021-05-01 00:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
Post by Dan Koren
Post by Frank Berger
When I saw the subject was "Boult" I was afraid he had died.
Again ?!?
It came like a Boult out of the blue.
If we give Boult a French pronounciation, then it
sounds better with bleu. Except I can't actually
say it.
It actually sounds more like "Boole".
dk
I hate these terse non-communicative efforts. Correct pronounciation is "Bolt" or very similar. In French it would be, as you say, similiar to Boole. So tha Bolt out of the blue would be Boole out of the bleu or actually something like Boult hors du blue. Although google translates bolt out of the blue as "audacieux a l'improviste." Except that google translate that back to English as "unexpectedly daring."
There was a test of a machine translator. They set it to translate an English phrase into Russian, and back again. "Out of sight, out of mind" became "Invisible idiot."
Kerrison
2021-05-01 18:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Charles Gerhardt engaged Boult for a number of Reader's Digest recordings in which he conducted music he'd never recorded before. Boult's only recording of any of Mussorgsky's music was in Gerhardt's own edition of "Night on Bald Mountain." As stated under the video, he went to town in the percussion section, what with snare-drums, rim-shots and gong crashes, as well as deleting the recurring trumpet fanfares in the Rimsky edition. Gerhardt was to say later that the first take of the piece wasn't exciting enough and he told Boult as much.

Sir Adrian went back into the studio and said to the players: "Gentlemen, Mr. Gerhardt thinks we are being too Anglo-Saxon, so lets make it more Russian with lots of exciting crescendos and diminuendos." The results were captured in what was a typically hi-fi sound on those old Readers Digest LPs and the comments under the video say it all: "The best version I have ever heard"..."A terrific performance" ... "A wonderfully opulent and audiophile recording" ...



Boult again letting his hair down, as he did with Richard Rodgers!
Owen
2021-05-01 22:44:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerrison
Charles Gerhardt engaged Boult for a number of Reader's Digest recordings in which he conducted music he'd never recorded before. Boult's only recording of any of Mussorgsky's music was in Gerhardt's own edition of "Night on Bald Mountain." As stated under the video, he went to town in the percussion section, what with snare-drums, rim-shots and gong crashes, as well as deleting the recurring trumpet fanfares in the Rimsky edition. Gerhardt was to say later that the first take of the piece wasn't exciting enough and he told Boult as much.
Sir Adrian went back into the studio and said to the players: "Gentlemen, Mr. Gerhardt thinks we are being too Anglo-Saxon, so lets make it more Russian with lots of exciting crescendos and diminuendos." The results were captured in what was a typically hi-fi sound on those old Readers Digest LPs and the comments under the video say it all: "The best version I have ever heard"..."A terrific performance" ... "A wonderfully opulent and audiophile recording" ...
http://youtu.be/PhXiPdJ6Z-8
Boult again letting his hair down, as he did with Richard Rodgers!
Thanks for these posts, Kerrison! They are wonderful!

-Owen
gggg gggg
2021-12-29 07:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
https://www.amazon.fr/Great-Conductors-20th-Century-Adrian/dp/B00006IGIT/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=boult+great&qid=1619606858&s=music&sr=1-4
"In musical and general education the conductor must be unusually welle
equipped. He must have a great deal of musical knowledge ; and I don't
just mean of orchestral scores. He must also a working knowledgz of all
instrumentq with which he is to come in contact, in cluding the human
voice."
Many current conductors would be well advised to follow the advice of
this IMMENSE Man/artist of Music...
I just listened again to the above mentioned album...Absolutely
beautiful...
Cf. also the two Warner box sets, indispensable...
(Recent Youtube upload):

Preview: Adrian Boult's 10 Best Recordings and the REAL Symphonic Golden Age
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