Discussion:
shortlist Anermet vs Monteux
(too old to reply)
Craig Wallace
2021-01-29 19:16:33 UTC
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Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
Frank Berger
2021-01-29 20:15:32 UTC
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Post by Craig Wallace
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
While plush and biting are not descriptors of music you will
see around here very often, if at all, I'll go out on a limb
and say that stereo vs. mono has zero to do with whether a
recording is likely to be plush or biting, whatever they mean.
Jerry
2021-01-30 13:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig Wallace
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?

Jerry
Raymond Hall
2021-01-31 00:46:17 UTC
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Post by Jerry
Post by Craig Wallace
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?
Jerry
Ansermet appears on many Decca compilations including popular Prokofiev, that I have seen, but where Lieutenant Kije is conducted by other than Ansermet. One has Dorati, while another has Boult doing the Kije music. I suspect that the discography is correct.

Ray Hall, Taree
Jerry
2021-01-31 16:08:49 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Jerry
Post by Craig Wallace
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?
Jerry
Ansermet appears on many Decca compilations including popular Prokofiev, that I have seen, but where Lieutenant Kije is conducted by other than Ansermet. One has Dorati, while another has Boult doing the Kije music. I suspect that the discography is correct.
Ray Hall, Taree
Well, that was my suspicion. The Boult Paris Kije is in Stereo (as documented
in Stuart's Boult discography and issued on a London Weekend CD #421 019-2
coupled with Ansermet's Pictures at a Exhibition).

The real mystery for me remains the Boult Love for Three Oranges, taped
in London 20 days AFTER the Kije sessions in Paris.

It's been released on Australian Eloquence but I've not been able to
determine whether it is in mono (as I suspect) or if they've somehow
discovered a hitherto undiscovered stereo tape.

Does anyone know?

Jerry
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-01-31 23:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Jerry
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?
Jerry
Ansermet appears on many Decca compilations including popular Prokofiev, that I have seen, but where Lieutenant Kije is conducted by other than Ansermet. One has Dorati, while another has Boult doing the Kije music. I suspect that the discography is correct.
Ray Hall, Taree
Well, that was my suspicion. The Boult Paris Kije is in Stereo (as documented
in Stuart's Boult discography and issued on a London Weekend CD #421 019-2
coupled with Ansermet's Pictures at a Exhibition).
The real mystery for me remains the Boult Love for Three Oranges, taped
in London 20 days AFTER the Kije sessions in Paris.
It's been released on Australian Eloquence but I've not been able to
determine whether it is in mono (as I suspect) or if they've somehow
discovered a hitherto undiscovered stereo tape.
Does anyone know?
Jerry
https://www.amazon.com.au/Prokofiev-Boult-Martinon-Tuxen-Malko/dp/B084YNZPKW/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=eloquence+prokofiev&qid=1612136170&s=music&sr=1-16
,
The 3 Oranges suite is on the above Eloquence 2fer, Boult and the LPO, the same year as Boult did Kije in Paris, 1956. The back cover doesn't state whether stereo or mono. Actually this might be worth getting methinks.

Ray Hall, Taree
Stan Punzel
2021-02-01 00:43:48 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Jerry
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?
Jerry
Ansermet appears on many Decca compilations including popular Prokofiev, that I have seen, but where Lieutenant Kije is conducted by other than Ansermet. One has Dorati, while another has Boult doing the Kije music. I suspect that the discography is correct.
Ray Hall, Taree
Well, that was my suspicion. The Boult Paris Kije is in Stereo (as documented
in Stuart's Boult discography and issued on a London Weekend CD #421 019-2
coupled with Ansermet's Pictures at a Exhibition).
The real mystery for me remains the Boult Love for Three Oranges, taped
in London 20 days AFTER the Kije sessions in Paris.
It's been released on Australian Eloquence but I've not been able to
determine whether it is in mono (as I suspect) or if they've somehow
discovered a hitherto undiscovered stereo tape.
Does anyone know?
Jerry
https://www.amazon.com.au/Prokofiev-Boult-Martinon-Tuxen-Malko/dp/B084YNZPKW/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=eloquence+prokofiev&qid=1612136170&s=music&sr=1-16
,
The 3 Oranges suite is on the above Eloquence 2fer, Boult and the LPO, the same year as Boult did Kije in Paris, 1956. The back cover doesn't state whether stereo or mono. Actually this might be worth getting methinks.
Ray Hall, Taree
Three years later in June 1955, Sir Adrian Boult made his first stereo recording, of the Love for Three Oranges Suite with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra. This was originally issued in mono with the Lieutenant Kijé Suite played by the LPO because the latter recording was mono only - whereas the present reissue now presents Oranges in it's stereo version. Boult's dry wit points up the sardonic qualities of both suites. (Excerpt from Amazon blurb)
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 01:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Jerry
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
The normally reliable Ansermet discography at www.scona.ch shows no recording of
Lt. Kije, not even an extract. Where did these appear?
Jerry
Ansermet appears on many Decca compilations including popular Prokofiev, that I have seen, but where Lieutenant Kije is conducted by other than Ansermet. One has Dorati, while another has Boult doing the Kije music. I suspect that the discography is correct.
Ray Hall, Taree
Well, that was my suspicion. The Boult Paris Kije is in Stereo (as documented
in Stuart's Boult discography and issued on a London Weekend CD #421 019-2
coupled with Ansermet's Pictures at a Exhibition).
The real mystery for me remains the Boult Love for Three Oranges, taped
in London 20 days AFTER the Kije sessions in Paris.
It's been released on Australian Eloquence but I've not been able to
determine whether it is in mono (as I suspect) or if they've somehow
discovered a hitherto undiscovered stereo tape.
Does anyone know?
Jerry
https://www.amazon.com.au/Prokofiev-Boult-Martinon-Tuxen-Malko/dp/B084YNZPKW/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=eloquence+prokofiev&qid=1612136170&s=music&sr=1-16
,
The 3 Oranges suite is on the above Eloquence 2fer, Boult and the LPO, the same year as Boult did Kije in Paris, 1956. The back cover doesn't state whether stereo or mono. Actually this might be worth getting methinks.
Ray Hall, Taree
According to Charm and my CD, the Boult Lt. Kije was
recorded June 9, 1955 and Love for Three Oranges on June 27,
1955.
gggg gggg
2021-02-14 00:13:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
Concerning recordings of Ravel' s DAPHNIS..., aren't Ansermet's mono and Monteux's stereo highly regarded?

And weren't they both known to have good "muscle memory" in that when they re-recorded earlier recordings that were originally made years/decades ago, there was hardly any difference in the timings between their earlier and later efforts?
gggg gggg
2021-03-04 04:05:08 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
Hi, Can people guide me to the best recordings of the above and how would one charecterise their different interpretations, also bearing in mind are we talking their mono or stereo versions? I was mildly surprised for example that a stereo Prokofiev Lt Kije excerpt by Ansermet sounded plusher and less biting than the mono recording, which set me wondering....
Concerning recordings of Ravel' s DAPHNIS..., aren't Ansermet's mono and Monteux's stereo highly regarded?
And weren't they both known to have good "muscle memory" in that when they re-recorded earlier recordings that were originally made years/decades ago, there was hardly any difference in the timings between their earlier and later efforts?
Concerning Ansermet:

- Indeed, Ansermet is one of those extremely rare conductors whose style barely changed over the course of a 50-year recording career...

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics4/daphnis.html
Andy Evans
2021-03-04 08:57:34 UTC
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Fortunately we don't have to choose between them - we can have both. Ansermet recorded more, and more varied repertoire, it seems to me - and in good Decca sound. I've listened over the years to not only his French repertoire but also Falla, Stravinsky and others. I like some of the less obvious Monteux recordings like Beethoven 4 + Siegfried Idyll.
MELMOTH
2021-03-04 09:16:44 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I like some of the less obvious Monteux recordings like Beethoven 4 +
Siegfried Idyll.
http://patachonf.free.fr/musique/monteux/index.php
Bob Harper
2021-03-04 15:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Fortunately we don't have to choose between them - we can have both. Ansermet recorded more, and more varied repertoire, it seems to me - and in good Decca sound. I've listened over the years to not only his French repertoire but also Falla, Stravinsky and others. I like some of the less obvious Monteux recordings like Beethoven 4 + Siegfried Idyll.
That Beethoven 4 is one of the finest.

Bob Harper
MELMOTH
2021-03-04 15:49:09 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
That Beethoven 4 is one of the finest.
Monteux, 1952 (Rca "Pierre Monteux Edition" 09026 61892-2)
[1] ø San Francisco, 7 avril 1952 - OS. San Francisco
* LP : RCA Victor LM 1714 (p 1953)
* CD : RCA "Pierre Monteux Edition" 09026 61892-2 (+ 8e...)
7 Rép. n° 70 / 5Y Diap. n° 406 / 3* Monde

Monteux, 1959 (Decca "Double" 443 479-2)

[2] ø Londres, 10 octobre 1959 - LSO
* LP : RCA Victor VICS 1102 / London STS 15394 / Decca 592 035 (p 1981)
* CD : Decca "Double" 443 479-2 / "Caractère" 443 506-2
8 Rép. n° 75

Monteux, 1960 (Via Classique/Fnac Music 642302)

[3] ø Hambourg, octobre 1960 - OS. NDR
* LP : Guilde International du Disque/Tono M-2332 / Musidisc-Festival
FC 446 (p 1964)
* CD : Scribendum SC 013 / Via Classique/Fnac Music 642302 (p 1993 +
2e)
Durées : I. 10'16 - II. 9'05 - III. 3'36 - IV. 6.38

[4] ø Concert décembre 1963 - LSO
* CD : Stradivarius STR-10001 (+ 4e-Cantelli) - [Origine : Pirate]
Bob Harper
2021-03-05 15:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Bob Harper
That Beethoven 4 is one of the finest.
Monteux, 1952 (Rca "Pierre Monteux Edition" 09026 61892-2)
[1] ø San Francisco, 7 avril 1952 - OS. San Francisco
* LP : RCA Victor LM 1714 (p 1953)
* CD : RCA "Pierre Monteux Edition" 09026 61892-2 (+ 8e...)
7 Rép. n° 70 / 5Y Diap. n° 406 / 3* Monde
Monteux, 1959 (Decca "Double" 443 479-2)
[2] ø Londres, 10 octobre 1959 - LSO
* LP : RCA Victor VICS 1102 / London STS 15394 / Decca 592 035 (p 1981)
* CD : Decca "Double" 443 479-2 / "Caractère" 443 506-2
8 Rép. n° 75
Monteux, 1960 (Via Classique/Fnac Music 642302)
[3] ø Hambourg, octobre 1960 - OS. NDR
* LP : Guilde International du Disque/Tono M-2332 / Musidisc-Festival FC
446 (p 1964)
* CD : Scribendum SC 013 / Via Classique/Fnac Music 642302 (p 1993 + 2e)
Durées : I. 10'16 - II. 9'05 - III. 3'36 - IV. 6.38
[4] ø Concert décembre 1963 - LSO
* CD : Stradivarius STR-10001 (+ 4e-Cantelli) - [Origine : Pirate]
Not being a Monteux completist, I meant of course the LSO Decca
recording (2), as it's the only one with which I am familiar. It is, as
I said, outstanding.

Bob Harper

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