Discussion:
Lara St. John
Add Reply
M&S Frost
2021-03-20 21:30:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach. I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly? Does she record anymore? I have her set of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas and also the concertos. They're wonderful.

MIFrost
dk
2021-03-21 02:09:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach.
Good taste!
Post by M&S Frost
I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly?
No need to. Most things written about her are grossly biased
and unfair.

dk
JohnGavin
2021-03-21 22:11:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach.
Good taste!
Post by M&S Frost
I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly?
No need to. Most things written about her are grossly biased
and unfair.
dk
She is one of those musicians with huge capacities - a prodigious memory.
She played the Chausson. Concerto with string quartet and piano from memory in the WGBH studios.

Here she is playing Symanowski with Hamelin - it’s otherworldly.


Vanessa Lann
2021-03-22 08:30:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think she's fantastic. She got a bad name in the '90's because of some cd covers which were of questionable taste to some people's minds. As a composer, I sympathized; my first piece recorded on professional cd in 1994 had a nude pianist on the cover (Tomoko Mukaiyama - 'Women Composers' / BVHaast label), and although it was gorgeous and tasteful, it raised a lot of eyebrows. Lara St John took over a decade to recover from a similar cover.
Post by JohnGavin
Post by dk
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach.
Good taste!
Post by M&S Frost
I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly?
No need to. Most things written about her are grossly biased
and unfair.
dk
She is one of those musicians with huge capacities - a prodigious memory.
She played the Chausson. Concerto with string quartet and piano from memory in the WGBH studios.
Here she is playing Symanowski with Hamelin - it’s otherworldly.
http://youtu.be/k55EIS4nlJs
sci.space
2021-03-22 12:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Lann
I think she's fantastic. She got a bad name in the '90's because of some cd covers which were of questionable taste to some people's minds. As a composer, I sympathized; my first piece recorded on professional cd in 1994 had a nude pianist on the cover (Tomoko Mukaiyama - 'Women Composers' / BVHaast label), and although it was gorgeous and tasteful, it raised a lot of eyebrows. Lara St John took over a decade to recover from a similar cover.
St. John's WTP cover for her Bach Partita2/Sonata 3 is in pretty bad taste, looks like an underage nudie. The performance is quite good
Chris from Lafayette
2021-03-22 20:01:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
St. John was interviewed shortly after that Partita2/Sonata3 recording came out. (I think this was in Fanfare, IIRC.) The interviewer asked her about that booklet photo, and she replied that she thought it was a "fun" cover. And I'm inclined to agree with her! ;-)

OTOH, she commented on that Kenneth Woods opinion piece about James Levine, where she posted as follows:

We’ve not met, but if we do, I’ll hug you for this [i.e., Woods' comments on Levine]. Covid or no.
Thank you so much. Means a lot to me and others like me.
Post by Vanessa Lann
I think she's fantastic. She got a bad name in the '90's because of some cd covers which were of questionable taste to some people's minds. As a composer, I sympathized; my first piece recorded on professional cd in 1994 had a nude pianist on the cover (Tomoko Mukaiyama - 'Women Composers' / BVHaast label), and although it was gorgeous and tasteful, it raised a lot of eyebrows. Lara St John took over a decade to recover from a similar cover.
St. John's WTP cover for her Bach Partita2/Sonata 3 is in pretty bad taste, looks like an underage nudie. The performance is quite good
Herman
2021-03-23 13:25:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris from Lafayette
St. John was interviewed shortly after that Partita2/Sonata3 recording came out. (I think this was in Fanfare, IIRC.) The interviewer asked her about that booklet photo, and she replied that she thought it was a "fun" cover. And I'm inclined to agree with her! ;-)
We’ve not met, but if we do, I’ll hug you for this [i.e., Woods' comments on Levine]. Covid or no.
Thank you so much. Means a lot to me and others like me.
The point of her comment on Woods blog is, of course, that Lara St John recently came out as having been longtime sexually harrassed when she was a teenage student at Curtis. And when she tried to reach out about it at the time, nobody cared.

When this was in the news one or two years ago many people said, she can't be serious, look at how she was pictured on her first cd.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-03-23 18:01:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
The point of her comment on Woods blog is, of course, that Lara St John recently came out as having been longtime sexually harrassed when she was a teenage student at Curtis. And when she tried to reach out about it at the time, nobody cared.
When this was in the news one or two years ago many people said, she can't be serious, look at how she was pictured on her first cd.
Yes - that's my understanding too - thanks for the background.
Joseph Serraglio
2021-03-26 14:39:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In 2020, St. John received an apology from Curtis for the way they treated her accusations which were found to be credible.. https://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/20209/28483/
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Herman
The point of her comment on Woods blog is, of course, that Lara St John recently came out as having been longtime sexually harrassed when she was a teenage student at Curtis. And when she tried to reach out about it at the time, nobody cared.
When this was in the news one or two years ago many people said, she can't be serious, look at how she was pictured on her first cd.
Yes - that's my understanding too - thanks for the background.
Bob Harper
2021-03-27 05:16:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joseph Serraglio
In 2020, St. John received an apology from Curtis for the way they treated her accusations which were found to be credible.. https://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/20209/28483/
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Herman
The point of her comment on Woods blog is, of course, that Lara St John recently came out as having been longtime sexually harrassed when she was a teenage student at Curtis. And when she tried to reach out about it at the time, nobody cared.
When this was in the news one or two years ago many people said, she can't be serious, look at how she was pictured on her first cd.
Yes - that's my understanding too - thanks for the background.
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.

Bob Harper
Herman
2021-03-27 11:30:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...

Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-29 09:01:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?

I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.

Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
dk
2021-03-29 09:19:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but
contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many,
many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged
perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on
the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan
Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances
at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Are you suggesting the venue adds artistic value to a performance?
Are you suggesting Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul are somehow
inferior to New York City?

dk
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-29 13:57:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but
contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many,
many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged
perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on
the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan
Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances
at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Are you suggesting the venue adds artistic value to a performance?
Are you suggesting Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul are somehow
inferior to New York City?
dk
Well, with the exception of Gina Bachauer, who I was taken to see in London as a young boy, all the great soloists I've seen and heard have appeared in Australian cities, primarily Melbourne and Adelaide, although I did see Ali Akhbar Khan in Perth, so I'd be the biggest hypocrite on the planet to deny the good people of Quebec, Edmonton and possibly Istanbul their status as appreciative and educated audiences. But these soloists also played in such major musical centres as New York, London, Berlin and Paris. I do wonder why an artist of Miss St John's undoubted gifts does not. Perhaps they won't let her take the lizard.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
now there's provincial for you.
Herman
2021-03-29 09:42:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.

It's part of 'blaming the victim'.

At Curtis at the time, Lara St John had talked to higher-ups about her problems with her teacher, and they did not take her seriously. That is the reason why it took her so long, because it took the higher-ups so long.

We don't know what Levine will be remembered for in the future, because we're in the now - and that includes you. However, apart from the ugly stuff, it does look like there is some solid chipping away at his musical legacy now that he isn't around anymore to tell everybody how great he is. More and more musicians saying most of his conducting was really hard to follow and the perfomances not being that great really. Plus the way he prevented other conductors performing germane material so as not to invite comparison.

We'll see what happens.
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 01:25:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers. As Australia is now increasingly following the USA (we have bathrooms instead of toilets and routes that rhyme with spouts) we now have an Federal Attorney General who has had to be moved into another portfolio because of rape allegations made against him 30 years ago, when he was still a teenager, by a woman who was clearly mentally disturbed and who most conveniently killed herself last year.

There's also another Australian female raving about the 'toxic atmosphere' in Parliament House, here in Canberra, for which, naturally, the current Prime Minister is also responsible. The reason is that she went to a party, got blind drunk, and got laid. She actually got laid in somebody's office in Parliament House, you see. So our PM has to forget about Myanmar, the China/India border, the persecution of the Uighurs, etc. and concentrate on the toxic atmosphere in Parliament House.

This stuff is being used to destabilise the present Australian government at a time when it doesn't need destabilising. And the crucial legal principle of the presumption of innocence is being thrown out the window.
Post by Herman
At Curtis at the time, Lara St John had talked to higher-ups about her problems with her teacher, and they did not take her seriously. That is the reason why it took her so long, because it took the higher-ups so long.
If the matter had been taken up, Miss St John would have said, "He did it" and her teacher would have said, "No, I did not". Then where do you go?
Post by Herman
We don't know what Levine will be remembered for in the future, because we're in the now - and that includes you. However, apart from the ugly stuff, it does look like there is some solid chipping away at his musical legacy now that he isn't around anymore to tell everybody how great he is. More and more musicians saying most of his conducting was really hard to follow and the perfomances not being that great really. Plus the way he prevented other conductors performing germane material so as not to invite comparison.
We'll see what happens.
There's also some solid chipping away at his musical legacy (a) because it is social and professional suicide to support an alleged sex offender and (b) dead men can't sue.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Steven Bornfeld
2021-03-30 01:49:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.

S


As Australia is now increasingly following the USA (we have bathrooms
instead of toilets and routes that rhyme with spouts) we now have an
Federal Attorney General who has had to be moved into another portfolio
because of rape allegations made against him 30 years ago, when he was
still a teenager, by a woman who was clearly mentally disturbed and who
most conveniently killed herself last year.
Post by Andrew Clarke
There's also another Australian female raving about the 'toxic atmosphere' in Parliament House, here in Canberra, for which, naturally, the current Prime Minister is also responsible. The reason is that she went to a party, got blind drunk, and got laid. She actually got laid in somebody's office in Parliament House, you see. So our PM has to forget about Myanmar, the China/India border, the persecution of the Uighurs, etc. and concentrate on the toxic atmosphere in Parliament House.
This stuff is being used to destabilise the present Australian government at a time when it doesn't need destabilising. And the crucial legal principle of the presumption of innocence is being thrown out the window.
Post by Herman
At Curtis at the time, Lara St John had talked to higher-ups about her problems with her teacher, and they did not take her seriously. That is the reason why it took her so long, because it took the higher-ups so long.
If the matter had been taken up, Miss St John would have said, "He did it" and her teacher would have said, "No, I did not". Then where do you go?
Post by Herman
We don't know what Levine will be remembered for in the future, because we're in the now - and that includes you. However, apart from the ugly stuff, it does look like there is some solid chipping away at his musical legacy now that he isn't around anymore to tell everybody how great he is. More and more musicians saying most of his conducting was really hard to follow and the perfomances not being that great really. Plus the way he prevented other conductors performing germane material so as not to invite comparison.
We'll see what happens.
There's also some solid chipping away at his musical legacy (a) because it is social and professional suicide to support an alleged sex offender and (b) dead men can't sue.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 03:05:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump.  And Kavanaugh was not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's case for him.
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty. I find that really disturbing.
Steven Bornfeld
2021-03-30 15:54:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a
single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty.  I
find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 17:03:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty.  I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
Steven Bornfeld
2021-03-30 20:57:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Frank Berger
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a
single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty.
I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
There were at least 3 accusations of sexual misconduct against
Kavanaugh. Besides Blasey-Ford, there were accusations by Deborah
Ramirez and Julie Swetnick.
This was not a criminal trial; it was a confirmation hearing to become a
Justice of the Supreme Court. The standards should be a bit higher than
for a criminal prosecution, don't you think?
I would not have knowingly hired someone with Kavanaugh's record to baby
sit my daughter either.

Steve
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 21:26:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steven Bornfeld
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty. I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
There were at least 3 accusations of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh.  Besides Blasey-Ford, there were accusations by Deborah Ramirez and Julie Swetnick.
This was not a criminal trial; it was a confirmation hearing to become a Justice of the Supreme Court.  The standards should be a bit higher than for a criminal prosecution, don't you think?
I would not have knowingly hired someone with Kavanaugh's record to baby sit my daughter either.
Steve
Swetnick? You can't be serious.
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 21:29:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steven Bornfeld
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty. I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
There were at least 3 accusations of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh.  Besides Blasey-Ford, there were accusations by Deborah Ramirez and Julie Swetnick.
This was not a criminal trial; it was a confirmation hearing to become a Justice of the Supreme Court.  The standards should be a bit higher than for a criminal prosecution, don't you think?
I would not have knowingly hired someone with Kavanaugh's record to baby sit my daughter either.
Steve
Not sure what you mean by standards. I have no knowledge that the FBI investigation was inadequate, if that's what you mean. Please go ahead and make case that it was abbreviated compared to a typical criminal case.
Joe
2021-03-30 21:42:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Frank Berger
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a
single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty.
I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
There were at least 3 accusations of sexual misconduct against
Kavanaugh. Besides Blasey-Ford, there were accusations by Deborah
Ramirez and Julie Swetnick.
This was not a criminal trial; it was a confirmation hearing to become a
Justice of the Supreme Court. The standards should be a bit higher than
for a criminal prosecution, don't you think?
I would not have knowingly hired someone with Kavanaugh's record to baby
sit my daughter either.
Steve
Ramirez claimed Kavanaugh assaulted someone else, but that woman denied it; Swetnick was even less credible.

Joe Markley
Plantsville, Connecticut
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 22:46:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Frank Berger
So in forming your own personal opinion in this sort of situation, a
single accusation is sufficient for you to find the accused guilty.
I find that really disturbing.
Whom are we talking about here, Levine or Kavanaugh?
Kavanaugh, obviously.
There were at least 3 accusations of sexual misconduct against
Kavanaugh. Besides Blasey-Ford, there were accusations by Deborah
Ramirez and Julie Swetnick.
This was not a criminal trial; it was a confirmation hearing to become a
Justice of the Supreme Court. The standards should be a bit higher than
for a criminal prosecution, don't you think?
I would not have knowingly hired someone with Kavanaugh's record to baby
sit my daughter either.
Steve
Ramirez claimed Kavanaugh assaulted someone else, but that woman denied it; Swetnick was even less credible.
Joe Markley
Plantsville, Connecticut
There was talk of prosecuting Swetnick and her lawyer for fraud. I guess nothing came of that?
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 07:04:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Herman
2021-03-30 11:42:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.

There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.

Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
Herman
2021-03-30 11:44:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
Obviously Kavanaugh thought the senate hearing protocol did not apply in Klobuchar's case, her being a woman.
James Goodzeit
2021-03-30 12:42:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Herman
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
Obviously Kavanaugh thought the senate hearing protocol did not apply in Klobuchar's case, her being a woman.
Thank you Herman for standing up to the right-wing trolls here. Their comments are sickening, but at least they aren't getting by unchallenged.
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-30 12:10:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Thank you for your comment here, Herman. I have misunderstood you for years. Sorry about that.

YM
JohnGavin
2021-03-30 13:09:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 14:23:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?

Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
Bob Harper
2021-03-30 16:57:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so,
who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr
Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something
that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all,
is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have
been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she
hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual
harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened,
and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively
come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I
going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of
conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator
Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions
from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was
truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her,
and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous,
quirky and unnatural behavior.  He came across as a  middle aged frat
boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion.  The fact remains that she could have
been acting or delusional.  And he could have reacted as he did out of
fear or anxiety.  It's impossible to know in a he said/she said
situation.  Were  more accusers to come forward, the case against
Kavanaugh would have been strengthened.  They didn't.  The question is,
should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on
such evidence?  Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on
such a basis?  Our justice system seems to say not.  It takes evidence
beyond a reasonable doubt.  Why do you think that is, and why should
that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an
investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told
that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be
established.  He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are
innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined."  The
accuser was informed of this as well.  It may be natural to think that
no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for
various reasons.  But we have cases of verified false accusations on
record, so it does happen.  It even happened once where I worked.  There
was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely
exaggerated.  It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some
protection.
Frank, these days due process is overrated--at least some seem to think
so. I'm with you.

Bob Harper
gggg gggg
2021-03-30 17:23:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so,
who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr
Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something
that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all,
is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have
been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she
hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual
harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened,
and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively
come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I
going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of
conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator
Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions
from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was
truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her,
and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous,
quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat
boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have
been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of
fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said
situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against
Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is,
should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on
such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on
such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence
beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should
that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an
investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told
that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be
established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are
innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The
accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that
no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for
various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on
record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There
was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely
exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some
protection.
Frank, these days due process is overrated--at least some seem to think
so. I'm with you.
Bob Harper
Concerning "The Brothers Karamazov":

- Dmitri's trial provides Dostoevsky with an opportunity to satirize the criminal justice system in detail. He emphasizes how any decision can be formed on the flimsy basis of circumstantial evidence, unreliable witnesses and even the hobbies of prosecuting lawyers (such as the interesting, but utterly mistaken, psychological insights of prosecutor Kirillovich).

Man-made justice, then, is shown to be unjust and unable to grasp the truth of any situation.

http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/TheBrothersKaramazov/themeanalysis.html
gggg gggg
2021-03-30 20:22:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by Bob Harper
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
And you're doing a great job at it, had you not written the rest of
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so,
who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr
Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something
that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all,
is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have
been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she
hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual
harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened,
and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively
come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I
going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of
conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator
Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions
from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was
truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her,
and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous,
quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat
boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have
been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of
fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said
situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against
Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is,
should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on
such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on
such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence
beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should
that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an
investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told
that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be
established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are
innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The
accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that
no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for
various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on
record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There
was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely
exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some
protection.
Frank, these days due process is overrated--at least some seem to think
so. I'm with you.
Bob Harper
- Dmitri's trial provides Dostoevsky with an opportunity to satirize the criminal justice system in detail. He emphasizes how any decision can be formed on the flimsy basis of circumstantial evidence, unreliable witnesses and even the hobbies of prosecuting lawyers (such as the interesting, but utterly mistaken, psychological insights of prosecutor Kirillovich).
Man-made justice, then, is shown to be unjust and unable to grasp the truth of any situation.
http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/TheBrothersKaramazov/themeanalysis.html
According to this, French peasants in the 1500's could expect a fair trial:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.medieval/c/UQPAZ-gesHE
dk
2021-03-30 21:40:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by gggg gggg
Post by Bob Harper
Post by JohnGavin
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
And you're doing a great job at it, had you not written the rest of
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so,
who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr
Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something
that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all,
is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have
been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she
hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual
harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened,
and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively
come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I
going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of
conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator
Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions
from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was
truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her,
and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous,
quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat
boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have
been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of
fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said
situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against
Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is,
should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on
such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on
such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence
beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should
that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an
investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told
that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be
established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are
innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The
accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that
no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for
various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on
record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There
was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely
exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some
protection.
Frank, these days due process is overrated--at least some seem to think
so. I'm with you.
Bob Harper
- Dmitri's trial provides Dostoevsky with an opportunity to satirize the
criminal justice system in detail. He emphasizes how any decision can
be formed on the flimsy basis of circumstantial evidence, unreliable
witnesses and even the hobbies of prosecuting lawyers (such as the
interesting, but utterly mistaken, psychological insights of prosecutor
Kirillovich).
Man-made justice, then, is shown to be unjust and unable to grasp
the truth of any situation.
http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/TheBrothersKaramazov/themeanalysis.html
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.medieval/c/UQPAZ-gesHE
Kavanaugh is a lot less than a French peasant! ;-)

dk
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-03-31 00:01:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by gggg gggg
Post by gggg gggg
http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/TheBrothersKaramazov/themeanalysis.html
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.medieval/c/UQPAZ-gesHE
Kavanaugh is a lot less than a French peasant! ;-)
dk
Less than a turd actually. Far less. The fact that Kavanaugh was a Trump nominee, in obvious attempts to stack the Supreme Court with right wing bias says it all really. No more needs to be said. Kavanaugh is a gross individual whose behaviour whilst being vetted, by itself, clearly showed his true character.

Ray Hall, Taree
gggg gggg
2021-03-31 01:08:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by gggg gggg
Post by gggg gggg
http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/TheBrothersKaramazov/themeanalysis.html
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.medieval/c/UQPAZ-gesHE
Kavanaugh is a lot less than a French peasant! ;-)
dk
Less than a turd actually. Far less. The fact that Kavanaugh was a Trump nominee, in obvious attempts to stack the Supreme Court with right wing bias says it all really. No more needs to be said. Kavanaugh is a gross individual whose behaviour whilst being vetted, by itself, clearly showed his true character.
Ray Hall, Taree
Don't Supreme Court appointments now and certainly in the future have something to do with this?:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.ancient/c/5sH3uVx4OK4/m/Ywvcl4xSAgAJ
Henk vT
2021-03-30 17:05:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me. It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.

Henk
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 17:13:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me. It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.
Henk
There is a limit to the amount of "protection"" that either the acccuser or accused can receive. In the example I gave, it was inevitable that the investigation itself caused some embarrassment to both parties. Although conducted as discretely as possible, word would leak out.
Henk vT
2021-03-30 17:38:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me. It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.
Henk
There is a limit to the amount of "protection"" that either the acccuser or accused can receive. In the example I gave, it was inevitable that the investigation itself caused some embarrassment to both parties. Although conducted as discretely as possible, word would leak out.
I agree. In St. John's case Curtis could and should have done better, as they now admit.

Henk
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 17:52:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Henk vT
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me. It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.
Henk
There is a limit to the amount of "protection"" that either the acccuser or accused can receive. In the example I gave, it was inevitable that the investigation itself caused some embarrassment to both parties. Although conducted as discretely as possible, word would leak out.
I agree. In St. John's case Curtis could and should have done better, as they now admit.
Henk
Institutions tend to hunker down, circle the wagons, however you want to put it, in order to protect themselves, even at the expense of justice. I think probably every institution develops a culture that embodies an exaggerated sense of the institution's true worth.
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 17:45:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me.
At some point is it going to occur to you that you judgement was unsound in the first place, and to consider why that may have been? Nah.


It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.
Post by Henk vT
Henk
Henk vT
2021-03-30 18:44:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
My strong impression of those proceedings were that Dr. Ford was truthful - that recalling the incident was extremely painful for her, and that the Supreme Court candidate betrayed his lies by his nervous, quirky and unnatural behavior. He came across as a middle aged frat boy with arrested development syndrome.
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't. The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not. It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is, and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation turned up to corborating evidence) the accused was told that he had been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to have some protection.
A very nuanced view, Frank. You keep surprising me.
At some point is it going to occur to you that you judgement was unsound in the first place, and to consider why that may have been? Nah.
<g> Again I have to agree with you.

Henk
It would have been even more so if you had said that the accuser as well as the accused deserve protection. In the case of St. John the accuser wasn't taken seriously at the time.
Post by Henk vT
Henk
Herman
2021-03-30 19:00:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't.
"Could have been" is by definition not a fact. And "they didn't" is not true. There have been plenty of reports that there were more witnesses who tried to get heard, but the senate and the FBI were not interested. There was no time. Kavanaugh's confirmation was rushed. These are the same deliberately failing procedures as were in place on Jan 6, making sure the Capitol could be vandalized by virtue of insufficient security.

One Richard Oh, a man, as you can tell by his name, asked to be able to give his testimony in favor of Blasey Ford, based on his observations and experiences at the time these things happened. The FBI failed to contact him.

There were other witnesses, who, being women, were quickly dismissed as crazy.

As far as I have heard, Blasey Ford and her family cannot live at their home anymore, due to death threats and the other usual stuff the right deals out to people who do not kowtow. There is no incentive whatsoever to 'act' aggrieved or be 'delusional' when you know the GOP and its attendant whackos are going to destroy your life.

I'm not sure whether the plan to start an impeachment procedure on Kavanaugh for perjury is still in the works.
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 21:20:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't.
"Could have been" is by definition not a fact. And "they didn't" is not true. There have been plenty of reports that there were more witnesses who tried to get heard, but the senate and the FBI were not interested. There was no time. Kavanaugh's confirmation was rushed. These are the same deliberately failing procedures as were in place on Jan 6, making sure the Capitol could be vandalized by virtue of insufficient security.
One Richard Oh, a man, as you can tell by his name, asked to be able to give his testimony in favor of Blasey Ford, based on his observations and experiences at the time these things happened. The FBI failed to contact him.
This seems to be incorrect. Richard Oh was supposedly going to testify that Deborah Ramirez told him about in incident where she said Kavanaugh exposed himself to her. The FBI interviews Ramirez and found her not to be credible. They saw no need to interview Oh. His so-called testimony had nothing to do with Blasey Ford, as far as i can see.
Post by Herman
There were other witnesses, who, being women, were quickly dismissed as crazy.
Personally, I would have had no problem with more time having been taken. I have no knowledge (nor could I have) of how much investigating SHOULD have been done. If I was a hater of all Republicans and dishonest, I would just continue to claim that the investigation was insufficient or rigged or something.

(Irrelevant stuff deleted).
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 21:32:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
The fact remains that she could have been acting or delusional. And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety. It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have been strengthened. They didn't.
"Could have been" is by definition not a fact.
Neither is an accusation.
dk
2021-03-30 21:36:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
You are entitled to your opinion. The fact remains that she could have
been acting or delusional.
And so could everyone else in that room, or involved in the proceedings.
And he could have reacted as he did out of fear or anxiety.
Not acceptable in someone who would be seated as a Supreme Court
justice. Kavanaugh's behavior during the hearings was in and by itself
sufficient cause to reject his nomination -- rape or no rape. The guy is
definitely not supreme court material.
It's impossible to know in a he said/she said situation. Were more
accusers to come forward, the case against Kavanaugh would have
been strengthened. They didn't.
One rape is not enough?
The question is, should an accused person be judged guilty, even in
one person's mind, on such evidence? Should a person be disqualified
for a job or office on such a basis? Our justice system seems to say not.
It takes evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do you think that is,
and why should that approach not apply in civil situations?
Because nomination hearings are not court trials. The bar is (or should
be set) much higher than merely "did not break any law to a sufficient
extent to be prosecuted".
Where I used to work, in he said/she said situations (i.e. an investigation
turned up to corroborating evidence) the accused was told that he had
been accused and that guilt or innocence could not be established. He
was basically told, "Sorry about this if you are innocent, but if proof comes
along, you will be disciplined." The accuser was informed of this as well. It
may be natural to think that no way would a woman accuse a man of abuse
if he hadn't done it, for various reasons. But we have cases of verified false
accusations on record, so it does happen. It even happened once where I
worked. There was another case where the accusation was partially true
but severely exaggerated. It just seems to me that the accused ought to
have some protection.
Your example does not provide an applicable analogy. The person you
mention was not a SCOTUS nominee.

dk
Steven Bornfeld
2021-03-30 16:00:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
You may remember in Woody Allen's "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know
About Sex*" The scene in which Allen plays a sperm; his "owner" is out
on a date and the sperms are speculating as to whether they would get
the call. As soon as the date says she's a student at NYU, the sperm
scramble to get ready.
That scene doesn't play exactly the way it did in 1972, but the tendency
to make judgments about women based about who they are and where they're
from seems to still exist.
Post by Herman
There's such an extensive literature about why victims of sexual harassment or abuse take years to find a way to voice what happened, and one of the reasons is guys like you, who immediately, reflexively come up with "Oh, well she's from southern california, so who am I going to believe? Her or a guy whose nr 1, 2 and 3 topics of conversation are are beer.
Speaking of which, Kavanaugh scored a great point when asking Senator Klobuchar whether she liked beer, too. 1) you don't ask questions from his chair. 2) Klobuchar's dad used to be an alcoholic.
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-30 16:22:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
You may remember in Woody Allen's "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know
About Sex*" The scene in which Allen plays a sperm; his "owner" is out
on a date and the sperms are speculating as to whether they would get
the call. As soon as the date says she's a student at NYU, the sperm
scramble to get ready.
That scene doesn't play exactly the way it did in 1972, but the tendency
to make judgments about women based about who they are and where they're
from seems to still exist.
Likewise on molestation case on male by male (man by man) as I am being victim of this. There are still plenty of hypocrites here and there that are posing "against" sexual and racial abuse. The other day, I reported my being molested past by male in New York and the truth that I was fooled by Tom Deacon here in r.m.c.r. years back about it ("pathetic loser not calling the police immediately at the moment") on Matthew B. Tepper's Facebook post on James Levine open to public (Tepper once friended me on Facebook, and he was posing against James Levine). Tepper deleted my comment and insulted me as an asshole and blocked me on Facebook as exactly as I imagined (I blocked him back). But, Tepper is posing as well against racial discrimination against Asians. I doubt these are all his posing for survival in the society that is changing. He (Matthew B. Tepper) should be a radical racist, just likewise Tom Deacon certainly is.
Sexual abuse is a terrible crime, and it continues to hurt victims' life throughout as PTSD. Should never be forgiven.


YM
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
2021-03-30 16:35:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
You may remember in Woody Allen's "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know
About Sex*" The scene in which Allen plays a sperm; his "owner" is out
on a date and the sperms are speculating as to whether they would get
the call. As soon as the date says she's a student at NYU, the sperm
scramble to get ready.
That scene doesn't play exactly the way it did in 1972, but the tendency
to make judgments about women based about who they are and where they're
from seems to still exist.
Likewise on molestation case on male by male (man by man) as I am being victim of this. There are still plenty of hypocrites here and there that are posing "against" sexual and racial abuse. The other day, I reported my being molested past by male in New York and the truth that I was fooled by Tom Deacon here in r.m.c.r. years back about it ("pathetic loser not calling the police immediately at the moment") on Matthew B. Tepper's Facebook post on James Levine open to public (Tepper once friended me on Facebook, and he was posing against James Levine). Tepper deleted my comment and insulted me as an asshole and blocked me on Facebook as exactly as I imagined (I blocked him back). But, Tepper is posing as well against racial discrimination against Asians. I doubt these are all his posing for survival in the society that is changing. He (Matthew B. Tepper) should be a radical racist, just likewise Tom Deacon certainly is.
Sexual abuse is a terrible crime, and it continues to hurt victims' life throughout as PTSD. Should never be forgiven.
My cousin was a 2 term Senator to the Japanese Diet from opposing ruling party (2009-2012) and worked for Judicial reform. And, he will re-run to the Senate in the next election by this autumn from the most liberalist party in Japan. He will possibly to be elected. And, he is a Ginza (most expensive for real estates) district lawyer with his office of his own law farm. But, he has ignored my molestation case thoroughly. And, this is the reality of sexual abuse or assault, and the life of most victims. Judicial system is not functioning to the crime.

YM
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-30 16:53:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
You may remember in Woody Allen's "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know
About Sex*" The scene in which Allen plays a sperm; his "owner" is out
on a date and the sperms are speculating as to whether they would get
the call. As soon as the date says she's a student at NYU, the sperm
scramble to get ready.
That scene doesn't play exactly the way it did in 1972, but the tendency
to make judgments about women based about who they are and where they're
from seems to still exist.
Likewise on molestation case on male by male (man by man) as I am being victim of this. There are still plenty of hypocrites here and there that are posing "against" sexual and racial abuse. The other day, I reported my being molested past by male in New York and the truth that I was fooled by Tom Deacon here in r.m.c.r. years back about it ("pathetic loser not calling the police immediately at the moment") on Matthew B. Tepper's Facebook post on James Levine open to public (Tepper once friended me on Facebook, and he was posing against James Levine). Tepper deleted my comment and insulted me as an asshole and blocked me on Facebook as exactly as I imagined (I blocked him back). But, Tepper is posing as well against racial discrimination against Asians. I doubt these are all his posing for survival in the society that is changing. He (Matthew B. Tepper) should be a radical racist, just likewise Tom Deacon certainly is.
Sexual abuse is a terrible crime, and it continues to hurt victims' life throughout as PTSD. Should never be forgiven.
My cousin was a 2 term Senator to the Japanese Diet from opposing ruling party (2009-2012) and worked for Judicial reform. And, he will re-run to the Senate in the next election by this autumn from the most liberalist party in Japan. He will possibly to be elected. And, he is a Ginza (most expensive for real estates) district lawyer with his office of his own law farm. But, he has ignored my molestation case thoroughly. And, this is the reality of sexual abuse or assault, and the life of most victims. Judicial system is not functioning to the crime.

YM (reposted because it was posted from a wrong account. Sorry about it!)
Owen
2021-03-31 04:27:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fitzgerald Kennedy
My cousin was a 2 term Senator to the Japanese Diet from opposing ruling party (2009-2012) and worked for Judicial reform. And, he will re-run to the Senate in the next election by this autumn from the most liberalist party in Japan. He will possibly to be elected. And, he is a Ginza (most expensive for real estates) district lawyer with his office of his own law farm. But, he has ignored my molestation case thoroughly. And, this is the reality of sexual abuse or assault, and the life of most victims. Judicial system is not functioning to the crime.
YM (reposted because it was posted from a wrong account. Sorry about it!)
You didn't happen to write the book "Profiles in Courage," did you?

-Owen
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-31 04:54:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
I'm not blaming the victim.
I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Obviously she does not "come from" SoCal, otherwise she wouldn't have been at the party where she was held down by Kavanaugh. Like him she hails from DC.
You may remember in Woody Allen's "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know
About Sex*" The scene in which Allen plays a sperm; his "owner" is out
on a date and the sperms are speculating as to whether they would get
the call. As soon as the date says she's a student at NYU, the sperm
scramble to get ready.
That scene doesn't play exactly the way it did in 1972, but the tendency
to make judgments about women based about who they are and where they're
from seems to still exist.
Likewise on molestation case on male by male (man by man) as I am being victim of this. There are still plenty of hypocrites here and there that are posing "against" sexual and racial abuse. The other day, I reported my being molested past by male in New York and the truth that I was fooled by Tom Deacon here in r.m.c.r. years back about it ("pathetic loser not calling the police immediately at the moment") on Matthew B. Tepper's Facebook post on James Levine open to public (Tepper once friended me on Facebook, and he was posing against James Levine). Tepper deleted my comment and insulted me as an asshole and blocked me on Facebook as exactly as I imagined (I blocked him back). But, Tepper is posing as well against racial discrimination against Asians. I doubt these are all his posing for survival in the society that is changing. He (Matthew B. Tepper) should be a radical racist, just likewise Tom Deacon certainly is.
Sexual abuse is a terrible crime, and it continues to hurt victims' life throughout as PTSD. Should never be forgiven.
YM
Tepper's probem is that he only once admitted me as a human and it was only at the moment when I gave apology on Facebook to my ex- and only girlfriend in life, a Russian lady who resides in the USA. Tepper may well have blocked me, but I blocked him in mind on that date while still being connected as a Facebook friend, and that was only because made enormous concessions to my sort of ex-friend AZS, who is a person to priotize keeping face to his fellow Jews in the USA.


YM
Herman
2021-03-31 07:07:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sexual harrassment rarely consists of a guy making a failed pass at a woman. Most women know how to handle this gracefully - or rudely. The cases that make it to the light are usually long-drawn out situations where power imbalance is the main issue, and the physical part is just a ramification.

In the case of Lara St John: she was a young teenager with a great talent. Her teacher tried to groom her into accepting his sexual advances as part of her education and training. Mutatis mutandis, the same thing happened with the young musicians Levine was willing to help as long as they became part of his sexual service group or harem.

The work world is an incredibly tough place for young and early middle-aged women, women before they hit the age they become 'invisble' to men. Oddly enough it's become even worse in this period of social distancing and lockdown. My girlfriend frequently regales me with stories of men, often thousands of miles away, who try to hit on her via linkedin, just because they're bored.

Obviously this is not what happened to Lara St John, but it does give one a picture of how tedious and tricky life is if you happen to be an attractive woman who is still working on her career (which is where the power issue kicks in). Many men cannot see a woman without sizing up how she fits in the hierarchy, which is where words like "instable" and "delusional" come from, those are meant to put her down a couple of rungs.
Herman
2021-03-31 07:09:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Obviously this is not what happened to Lara St John, but it does give one a picture of how tedious and tricky life is if you happen to be an attractive woman who is still working on her career (which is where the power issue kicks in). Many men cannot see a woman without sizing up how she fits in the hierarchy, which is where words like "instable" and "delusional" come from, those are meant to put her down a couple of rungs.
Basically the intended effect of this is to discourage women from even trying to have a career, because predator men need all the space.
Bob Harper
2021-03-30 16:49:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 17:09:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how "credible" she may be.
dk
2021-03-30 21:38:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how "credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?

dk
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 22:45:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how "credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them. How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
Post by dk
dk
dk
2021-03-30 23:03:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing,"
no matter how "credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me.
Really ?!?
Post by Frank Berger
Are you serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact.
No, I am not. I am merely pointing out that if one follows your
argument to its logical conclusions, a rape incident without a
witness could never be prosecuted.
Post by Frank Berger
They are not the same. You seem to be saying that any one
person should be able to destroy the life/career of any other
person simply by accusing them. How can that make sense?
As stated earlier, a SCOTUS confirmation hearing should have
a much higher bar than not having committed a crime worthy
of prosecution.
Post by Frank Berger
You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not evidence beyond
a reasonable doubt, but something.
Again, confirmation hearings are not court trials.

dk
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 23:07:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing,"
no matter how "credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me.
Really ?!?
Post by Frank Berger
Are you serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact.
No, I am not. I am merely pointing out that if one follows your
argument to its logical conclusions, a rape incident without a
witness could never be prosecuted.
Especially in a rape, there could be evidence aside from a witness. If there is no witness and evidence, of course there is no prosecution. How could it be otherwise. If I'm walking down the street and somone hits me in the head with a 2x4 and no witness and no way to link the crime to the perpetrator, then there is no prosecution. How could there be. How is a rape different? If I came forward and said John Kavanaugh attacked me with 2x4 is he disqualified because I said it? I really don't get this at all.
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
They are not the same. You seem to be saying that any one
person should be able to destroy the life/career of any other
person simply by accusing them. How can that make sense?
As stated earlier, a SCOTUS confirmation hearing should have
a much higher bar than not having committed a crime worthy
of prosecution.
Post by Frank Berger
You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not evidence beyond
a reasonable doubt, but something.
Again, confirmation hearings are not court trials.
dk
Bob Harper
2021-03-30 23:46:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And
Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me.  Are you
serious?  You are equating an accusation with a fact.  They are not the
same.   You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense?  You have to have some evidence.  Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.

Bob Harper
dk
2021-03-31 00:02:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you
serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the
same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.
Time to change subjects.
Wagner? ;-)
dk
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-31 00:10:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 6:16:40 AM UTC+1, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you
serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the
same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.
Time to change subjects.
Wagner? ;-)
dk
I learned somehow to love Wagner (only by several historical and present musicians not to mention) this century. Took long time. Thank you dk seriously for recommending Topfenstrudel nomination on Yom Shavuot!

YM
dk
2021-03-31 00:27:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Thank you dk seriously for recommending
Topfenstrudel nomination on Yom Shavuot!
This year Shavuot falls on May 16/17.

dk
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-31 00:51:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Thank you dk seriously for recommending
Topfenstrudel nomination on Yom Shavuot!
This year Shavuot falls on May 16/17.
dk
Thank you. Jewish calendar often talks for building a better future! Ha shanah 5777 was year of G_d was impressive too.

YM
dk
2021-03-31 00:28:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 12:49:27 PM UTC+11, Steven Bornfeld
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 6:16:40 AM UTC+1, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And
Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making
Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you
serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the
same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.
Time to change subjects.
Wagner? ;-)
dk
I learned somehow to love Wagner (only by several historical and
present musicians not to mention) this century. Took long time. T
hank you dk seriously for recommending Topfenstrudel nomination
on Yom Shavuot!
It was merely a suggestion for a less controversial topic than
Ms. St. John and Mr. Kavanaugh -- not a recommendation!

dk
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-31 00:34:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 12:49:27 PM UTC+11, Steven Bornfeld
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 6:16:40 AM UTC+1, Bob Harper
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And
Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making
Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you
serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the
same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.
Time to change subjects.
Wagner? ;-)
dk
I learned somehow to love Wagner (only by several historical and
present musicians not to mention) this century. Took long time. T
hank you dk seriously for recommending Topfenstrudel nomination
on Yom Shavuot!
It was merely a suggestion for a less controversial topic than
Ms. St. John and Mr. Kavanaugh -- not a recommendation!
dk
Yes, I do know it!

YM
dk
2021-03-31 00:30:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
I learned somehow to love Wagner (only by several historical and
present musicians not to mention) this century. Took long time.
Verklaerte Nacht is a brilliant summary of Wagner's music in
just half an hour! For a more extended summary one could
listen to Strauss' Alpensinfonie.

dk
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-31 00:43:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Yoshiyuki Mukudai
I learned somehow to love Wagner (only by several historical and
present musicians not to mention) this century. Took long time.
Verklaerte Nacht is a brilliant summary of Wagner's music in
just half an hour! For a more extended summary one could
listen to Strauss' Alpensinfonie.
dk
I agree. Boulez on March 5, 1996 in Cleveland, Ohio at Severance Hall was magical. He gave the performance only on that particular evening with Berlioz Symphonie fantastique. Other subscription opportunities was all Berlioz. If it was givern on March 4, it might have been more impressive, because it was in OH (I love March 5th better for the story both Prokofiev and Stalin died on this date in 1953 when Horowitz gave his Silverjubilee recital in Carnegie Hall 8 days earlier).

YM
Bob Harper
2021-03-31 02:31:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Bob Harper
Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Andrew Clarke
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:01:51 AM UTC+2,
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I
regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have
nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual
misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and
especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally
under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the
Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be
remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Well, there is an extensive literature on why it takes years for
victims of sexual abuse to come forward effectively. Among other
things, as long as the perp is around, people tended to rally
around the perp, rather than the victim, who was perceived to be
whiny and manipulative.
It's part of 'blaming the victim'.
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really
wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed
victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
Maybe it was clear to you; I can assure you Dr. Ford was seen as an
excellent witness by most here not taken in by Trump. And Kavanaugh was
not being brought up on criminal charges; he was not entitled to a
presumption of innocence.
Re: blaming the victim--you're doing an excellent job of making Herman's
case for him.
I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just dubious about whether there
was a victim at all, and if so, who was the perpetrator. I'm
wondering about the veracity of' Dr Ford's sudden and politically
convenient total recall of something that happened at a boozy party
thirty years ago. Proust, after all, is fiction. And Dr Ford does
come from Southern California.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Dr. Ford was.....unconvincing. I'll just leave it at that.
Bob Harper
For me, a single accuser could not be "convincing," no matter how
"credible" she may be.
So in your view a single rape does not count ?!?
Possibly the most horrible thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you
serious? You are equating an accusation with a fact. They are not the
same. You seem to be saying that any one person should be able to
destroy the life/career of any other person simply by accusing them.
How can that make sense? You have to have some evidence. Perhaps not
evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but something.
No, no, Frank. Remember, it's not the nature of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charges that demands investigation and personal
destruction.
Time to change subjects.
Wagner? ;-)
dk
Or Bruckner? Works for me.

Bob Harper
Herman
2021-03-30 03:28:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
you mean Mr 'I like beer, do you like beer?' was unbonkers in your view?

totally unhinged in my view.

Thanks, indeed, for making my case so eloquently.
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 06:52:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Andrew Clarke
Those days are long gone. Look at all the people who really wanted Brett Kavanaugh to be guilty, even though the supposed victim (and only witness) was clearly bonkers.
you mean Mr 'I like beer, do you like beer?' was unbonkers in your view?
totally unhinged in my view.
Thanks, indeed, for making my case so eloquently.
I had to look up the "I like beer do you like beer?" quote and its ridiculous citation by left-liberals as irrefutable evidence that Mr Kavanaugh was unfit to sit on the bench of the Supreme Court.

Ridiculous.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr. Mike
2021-03-31 19:57:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:25:58 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Clarke
Post by Andrew Clarke
As Australia is now increasingly following the USA (we have bathrooms instead of toilets and routes that rhyme with spouts) we now have an Federal Attorney General who has had to be moved into another portfolio because of rape allegations made against him 30 years ago, when he was still a teenager, by a woman who was clearly mentally disturbed and who most conveniently killed herself last year.
There's also another Australian female raving about the 'toxic atmosphere' in Parliament House, here in Canberra, for which, naturally, the current Prime Minister is also responsible. The reason is that she went to a party, got blind drunk, and got laid. She actually got laid in somebody's office in Parliament House, you see. So our PM has to forget about Myanmar, the China/India border, the persecution of the Uighurs, etc. and concentrate on the toxic atmosphere in Parliament House.
This stuff is being used to destabilise the present Australian government at a time when it doesn't need destabilising. And the crucial legal principle of the presumption of innocence is being thrown out the window.
What about people reportedly jerking off on desks in Parliament,
which includes photos?

=====

The Australian parliament was rocked by yet more sex abuse allegations
Monday when footage of a senior government staff member masturbating
onto the desk of a female lawmaker was leaked by a whistleblower.

The disgusting video—obtained by The Australian newspaper and Channel
Ten—led to the immediate firing of the unnamed aide, but it came
alongside other images of at least four government staff members who
have been swapping images of Parliament House sex acts for years.

One of the clips showed a pixellated man exposing his penis with a
copy of the Parliament House rule book right behind him, while another
showed a man pointing to the desk of a female Liberal member of
parliament before masturbating onto it. “The fact that it is a female
MP only adds to the disgrace that it is,” the whistleblower said,
adding that he’d been sent so many explicit clips that he’d “become
immune” to them.
John Fowler
2021-03-31 20:35:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mr. Mike
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:25:58 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Clarke
Post by Andrew Clarke
As Australia is now increasingly following the USA (we have bathrooms instead of toilets and routes that rhyme with spouts) we now have an Federal Attorney General who has had to be moved into another portfolio because of rape allegations made against him 30 years ago, when he was still a teenager, by a woman who was clearly mentally disturbed and who most conveniently killed herself last year.
There's also another Australian female raving about the 'toxic atmosphere' in Parliament House, here in Canberra, for which, naturally, the current Prime Minister is also responsible. The reason is that she went to a party, got blind drunk, and got laid. She actually got laid in somebody's office in Parliament House, you see. So our PM has to forget about Myanmar, the China/India border, the persecution of the Uighurs, etc. and concentrate on the toxic atmosphere in Parliament House.
This stuff is being used to destabilise the present Australian government at a time when it doesn't need destabilising. And the crucial legal principle of the presumption of innocence is being thrown out the window.
What about people reportedly jerking off on desks in Parliament,
which includes photos?
=====
The Australian parliament was rocked by yet more sex abuse allegations
Monday when footage of a senior government staff member masturbating
onto the desk of a female lawmaker was leaked by a whistleblower.
The disgusting video—obtained by The Australian newspaper and Channel
Ten—led to the immediate firing of the unnamed aide, but it came
alongside other images of at least four government staff members who
have been swapping images of Parliament House sex acts for years.
One of the clips showed a pixellated man exposing his penis with a
copy of the Parliament House rule book right behind him, while another
showed a man pointing to the desk of a female Liberal member of
parliament before masturbating onto it. “The fact that it is a female
MP only adds to the disgrace that it is,” the whistleblower said,
adding that he’d been sent so many explicit clips that he’d “become
immune” to them.
What? You can't expose your penis in Australia while you are pixellated?
number_six
2021-03-31 20:52:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mr. Mike
video—obtained by The Australian newspaper and Channel
Ten—led to the immediate firing of the unnamed aide, but it came
alongside other images of at least four government staff members who
have been swapping images of Parliament House sex acts for years.
Staff?? Members??

The material is writing itself here...
Vanessa Lann
2021-04-01 13:54:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).

So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?

Vanessa Lann
Post by Mr. Mike
video—obtained by The Australian newspaper and Channel
Ten—led to the immediate firing of the unnamed aide, but it came
alongside other images of at least four government staff members who
have been swapping images of Parliament House sex acts for years.
Staff?? Members??
The material is writing itself here...
gggg gggg
2021-04-01 14:04:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Lann
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).
So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?
Vanessa Lann
Interesting questions.

What is probably needed is more women record producers whose view of women go beyond their sex appeal.
gggg gggg
2021-04-01 15:09:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by Vanessa Lann
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).
So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?
Vanessa Lann
Interesting questions.
What is probably needed is more women record producers whose view of women go beyond their sex appeal.
Have you ever seen the 1962 movie "Walk on the Wild Side"? Barbara Stanwyck's character says:

- Love! Can any man love a woman for herself without wanting her body for his own pleasure? Love is understanding and sharing and enjoying the beauty of life without the reek of lust. Don’t talk to me about love. What do you know? What does any man know?
Andrew Clarke
2021-04-01 15:48:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Lann
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).
So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?
If you look at people like Tamsin Little, Nicola Benedetti, Rachel Podger, Veronique Gens, Natalie Dessay etc., their marketing is no different from that of men. They look smart, bright and intelligent. They also record for mainstream recording companies and have their recordings distributed to record shops, whether bricks and mortar or otherwise. They give concerts in major venues in world cities. Ms St John, who hasn't done any nude covers for a while, has chosen not to. So if you want to buy the recordings on her private label, you have a choice of Amazon or her website. I really don't think that her being female is a problem.

Still, she earns enough to afford a flat in New York City.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Norman Schwartz
2021-04-01 16:36:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Lann
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).
So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?
If you look at people like Tamsin Little, Nicola Benedetti, Rachel Podger, Veronique Gens, Natalie Dessay etc., their marketing is no different from that of men. They look smart, bright and intelligent. They also record for mainstream recording companies and have their recordings distributed to record shops, whether bricks and mortar or otherwise. They give concerts in major venues in world cities. Ms St John, who hasn't done any nude covers for a while, has chosen not to. So if you want to buy the recordings on her private label, you have a choice of Amazon or her website. I really don't think that her being female is a problem.
Becoming an obese senior is a problem for posing for (nude) covers.
Still, she earns enough to afford a flat in New York City.
What does anyone know or should want to know regarding her finances?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Herman
2021-04-01 17:34:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Ms St John, who hasn't done any nude covers for a while,
Am I missing something?
I thought her Bach album was the only time she posed nude behind a giant violin.
It was a case of bad judgement, I thought it was a one time event.

I also feel a little differently about this assertion that "people like Tamsin Little, Nicola Benedetti, Rachel Podger, Veronique Gens, Natalie Dessay etc., their marketing is no different from that of men."

That's a rather select group. I can't help but notice Yuja Wang is studiously not mentioned.

Violinists tend to show a lot of skin on the album covers, and on stage too, often, and there is really no reason why they should. I am totally happy not to look at someone's bare armpits during the Beethoven concerto.
Henk vT
2021-04-01 18:59:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Lann
We began several weeks ago by discussing the incredible talent of violinist Lara St John, and why it's sometimes difficult to find her recordings, or hear about her activities, these days. Two things related to socio-sexual issues happened in the 90's which affected her career: a cd cover which some found to be of questionable taste, and even called "exploitative", and then her personal story involving alleged sexual harassment a couple of years later (if I'm correct).
So, there truly is an interesting issue here. How should women behave when promoting their work in the CLASSICAL genre? Should they use different imagery than men? Should sexuality be absent from the promotion of classical material? Are women held to different standards than men? Is it different for women performers, versus women composers? Do we have a (too) rigid image of what a classical performer, or composer, looks like?
Vanessa Lann
I don't look forward to a cover that shows Lang Lang (a decent-looking young guy) sitting behind his piano in just a bathing suit. However, I have no problem with Yuja Wang doing so in a slightly lengthened version of a bathing suit. As far as I can tell, it's a matter of aesthetics, not gender/ethics. Ethical choices are usually easier to explain than my NO for Lang and YES for Wang.

Henk
Herman
2021-04-01 19:26:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henk vT
As far as I can tell, it's a matter of aesthetics, not gender/ethics. Ethical choices are usually easier to explain than my NO for Lang and YES for Wang.
You're talking about preferring a woman in skimpy clothing rather than a man, and you say it's nothing to do with gender? Please, this is just too naive.
JohnGavin
2021-04-01 20:21:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by Henk vT
As far as I can tell, it's a matter of aesthetics, not gender/ethics. Ethical choices are usually easier to explain than my NO for Lang and YES for Wang.
You're talking about preferring a woman in skimpy clothing rather than a man, and you say it's nothing to do with gender? Please, this is just too naive.
I remember that Gideon Kremer quit Verbier Summer Festival because he felt it was a sort of fashion show lineup of beautiful people. There seems to be a trend in classical music to reach for extra musical means to distinguish yourself. Perhaps this is a reflection of how much more difficult it is to stand out by talent and abilities alone than it used to be.
Joseph Serraglio
2021-04-01 15:32:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Not entirely a bad thing, given his level of incompetence
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 9:26:01 PM UTC-4, ***@gmail.com wrote:

So our PM has to forget about Myanmar, the China/India border, the persecution of the Uighurs, etc. and concentrate on the toxic atmosphere in Parliament House.
James Goodzeit
2021-03-29 15:12:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
James Goodzeit
2021-03-29 15:14:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
His harpsichord solo in Brandenburg 5 is more noteworthy than any of his conducting.
gggg gggg
2021-03-29 22:12:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
His harpsichord solo in Brandenburg 5 is more noteworthy than any of his conducting.
Speaking of keyboard, he almost stole the show with his piano accompaniment of Kathleen Battle's lieder recordings.
M&S Frost
2021-03-29 19:51:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
His CSO recording of the Brahms symphonies are superlative, imho. So is his recording of The Planets. He had his moments.

MIFrost
gggg gggg
2021-03-29 22:48:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M&S Frost
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many, many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
His CSO recording of the Brahms symphonies are superlative, imho. So is his recording of The Planets. He had his moments.
MIFrost
Concerning "The Planets", the following ranks his recording just outside the top 10:

https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/
dk
2021-03-30 07:09:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/
Unfortunately for him, there are only 9 planets!

dk
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 09:42:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by gggg gggg
https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/
Unfortunately for him, there are only 9 planets!
But look at the competition!

21. Hymisher Greenburg, The European Philharmonic Orchestra, 1993
22. Alberto Lizzio, The Festival Orchestra, 1997
23. Mayfair Philharmonic Orchestra, 2014

not to mention

47. André Previn, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, 1986
48. William Steinberg, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 1970
49. Sir Georg Solti, London Philharmonic Orchestra, 1978

let alone the tail end Charlies:

81. Gennadi Rozhdestvensky, BBC Symphony Orchestra, 1980
82. Sir Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra, 2003
83. Bernard Herrmann, London Philharmonic Orchestra, 1970

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
JohnGavin
2021-03-30 10:03:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by gggg gggg
https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/
Unfortunately for him, there are only 9 planets!
dk
8 to be exact. Conductors need to throw out Pluto. 😑
Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 01:35:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
He was also fortunate enough to be invited to conduct a few world-class orchestras, not noted for suffering fools gladly.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
dk
2021-03-30 07:07:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by Herman
Post by Bob Harper
I made some ill-considered and unkind remarks at the time. I regret that.
Bob Harper
applause...
Lara St John was very vocal in the Levine postmortem.
And what did Miss St John have to say about Brett Kavanaugh?
I made some unkind remarks at the time, to wit that I have nothing but
contempt for people who make charges of sexual misconduct many,
many years after the alleged offence, and especially when the alleged
perpetrator is dead. I am equally under-impressed by her jumping on the
James Levine bandwagon.
Mr Levine will be remembered for his performances at the Metropolitan
Opera, New York. Miss St John will be be remembered for her performances
at Quebec, Edmonton and Istanbul.
Mr Levine will be remembered as a mediocre conductor who was fortunate
to work with world-class soloists on a day-to-day basis.
You are giving him waaay too much credit!

dk
James Goodzeit
2021-03-23 13:09:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach. I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly? Does she record anymore? I have her set of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas and also the concertos. They're wonderful.
MIFrost
According to her website, she has her own label: https://www.larastjohn.com/albums . It's hard to say who is performing regularly these days with COVID, but she is certainly still active.
JohnGavin
2021-03-23 13:34:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Goodzeit
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach. I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly? Does she record anymore? I have her set of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas and also the concertos. They're wonderful.
MIFrost
According to her website, she has her own label: https://www.larastjohn.com/albums . It's hard to say who is performing regularly these days with COVID, but she is certainly still active.
Here is a concert from 8 months ago.


Andrew Clarke
2021-03-30 19:53:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M&S Frost
Ms. St. John is one of my favorite violinists for Bach. I never read anything about her. Does she perform regularly? Does she record anymore? I have her set of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas and also the concertos. They're wonderful.
MIFrost
Miss St John has decided to be in control of her own recordings, having been displeased with certain aspects of the major labels. She founded her own label, named after her pet lizard:

<https://www.discogs.com/label/587694-Ancalagon>
<https://www.larastjohn.com/ancalagon>

You can buy her CDs from her own online shop:

<https://www.larastjohn.com/shop>

Her current itinerary is here:

<https://www.larastjohn.com/schedule>

There's an interview here about her latest recording, her struggle with depression and the therapeutic value of Brooklyn99:

<https://stringsmagazine.com/lara-st-john-emerges-from-a-trying-year-with-a-new-album-of-the-franck-and-kreutzer-sonatas/>

and there's a laudatory review here:

<https://blogcritics.org/music-review-lara-st-john-matt-herskowitz-key-of-a-violin-sonatas-beethoven-franck/>

I would have liked to have included some reviews from ClassicsToday but their search engine won't let me.

Her current project is here:

<https://www.larastjohn.com/atterbury-concert>

Her recordings available from Presto Classical are here:

<https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=lara%20st%20john>

and her agent is here:

<http://jmginy.com/>

The impression I'm getting is of a fabulously talented musician with a quirky taste in repertoire, who has effectively removed herself from the mainstream. She's almost invisible. She'd benefit from some good marketing, but she probably doesn't believe in marketing.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Loading...